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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: Why Not Mono &#8211; Part II</title>
	<atom:link href="http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/</link>
	<description>Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-11/#comment-24645</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24645</guid>
		<description>Previously denied what? It would help if you state your question.

I don&#039;t see what elaboration you&#039;re asking for. SFLC issued a statement about Microsoft&#039;s Moonlight covenant. Mono, for obvious reasons, doesn&#039;t rely on that covenant and actively avoids Microsoft patents. So the statement about the covenant doesn&#039;t tell you anything about SFLC&#039;s opinion on Mono.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Previously denied what? It would help if you state your question.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see what elaboration you&#8217;re asking for. SFLC issued a statement about Microsoft&#8217;s Moonlight covenant. Mono, for obvious reasons, doesn&#8217;t rely on that covenant and actively avoids Microsoft patents. So the statement about the covenant doesn&#8217;t tell you anything about SFLC&#8217;s opinion on Mono.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-11/#comment-24643</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24643</guid>
		<description>Can you please elaborate on that? I ask this because you previously denied it, IIRC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you please elaborate on that? I ask this because you previously denied it, IIRC.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-11/#comment-24642</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24642</guid>
		<description>I asked for Mono, not Moonlight. They&#039;re separate projects, and I already agree with you that Moonlight has problems currently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I asked for Mono, not Moonlight. They&#8217;re separate projects, and I already agree with you that Moonlight has problems currently.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-10/#comment-24641</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24641</guid>
		<description>Sure, here you go.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080528133529454</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, here you go.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080528133529454" rel="nofollow">http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080528133529454</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-10/#comment-24639</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24639</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see anything that the SFLC has published that relates to Mono. Do you care to offer a link to their opinion on Mono?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see anything that the SFLC has published that relates to Mono. Do you care to offer a link to their opinion on Mono?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-10/#comment-24631</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24631</guid>
		<description>No, because you did not refute the SFLC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, because you did not refute the SFLC.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-10/#comment-24630</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24630</guid>
		<description>Why? Because you said so? Doesn&#039;t wash, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why? Because you said so? Doesn&#8217;t wash, really.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan O'Brian</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-10/#comment-24629</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O'Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24629</guid>
		<description>Which issues? All of your issues have been disproven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which issues? All of your issues have been disproven.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-9/#comment-24626</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24626</guid>
		<description>The issues still stand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issues still stand.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-9/#comment-24623</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24623</guid>
		<description>And that we know for sure because they&#039;ve issued a statement about it: they&#039;re worried about the issues surrounding XAML, which is fair enough. They can always include it later when the worries are worked out.

Note, though, that where they do have a worry, not only is the package not on discs they provide, but it&#039;s also not in the repos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that we know for sure because they&#8217;ve issued a statement about it: they&#8217;re worried about the issues surrounding XAML, which is fair enough. They can always include it later when the worries are worked out.</p>
<p>Note, though, that where they do have a worry, not only is the package not on discs they provide, but it&#8217;s also not in the repos.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-9/#comment-24622</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24622</guid>
		<description>And Monolight [sic]?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Monolight [sic]?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-9/#comment-24620</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24620</guid>
		<description>@Roy: &quot;we don&#039;t know for sure&quot; isn&#039;t license to substitute your own opinion in place of the actual facts.

&quot;We don&#039;t know for sure&quot; that the core of the moon isn&#039;t cheese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roy: &#8220;we don&#8217;t know for sure&#8221; isn&#8217;t license to substitute your own opinion in place of the actual facts.</p>
<p>&#8220;We don&#8217;t know for sure&#8221; that the core of the moon isn&#8217;t cheese.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan O'Brian</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-9/#comment-24619</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O'Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24619</guid>
		<description>I remember reading that gNewSense also ships Mono and refuse to drop it stating that Mono is no less-safe than other packages they ship.

(For those not in-the-know, gNewSense is the FSF-sponsored GNU/Linux distribution).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading that gNewSense also ships Mono and refuse to drop it stating that Mono is no less-safe than other packages they ship.</p>
<p>(For those not in-the-know, gNewSense is the FSF-sponsored GNU/Linux distribution).</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-8/#comment-24618</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24618</guid>
		<description>Maybe, but we don&#039;t know this for sure. What about Moonlight? It&#039;s the SFLC that looked it, remember?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe, but we don&#8217;t know this for sure. What about Moonlight? It&#8217;s the SFLC that looked it, remember?</p>
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		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-8/#comment-24617</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24617</guid>
		<description>Divert attention? Er, no. I&#039;m giving you an example which disproves your inference behind Fedora&#039;s motives.

If Mono isn&#039;t on the LiveCD I suggest that it&#039;s rather more to do with trimming packages to fit into 660Mb with a variety of locales and languages than any FUD you&#039;re throwing at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Divert attention? Er, no. I&#8217;m giving you an example which disproves your inference behind Fedora&#8217;s motives.</p>
<p>If Mono isn&#8217;t on the LiveCD I suggest that it&#8217;s rather more to do with trimming packages to fit into 660Mb with a variety of locales and languages than any FUD you&#8217;re throwing at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan O'Brian</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-8/#comment-24616</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O'Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24616</guid>
		<description>As has been proven in the past whenever you point to Mr. Steadfast&#039;s blog - he backs up his statements with irrefutable facts.

Just because you dismiss them simply because he works for Novell, doesn&#039;t make his evidence untrue. Especially since any unaffiliated objective person can verify his proof.

Let&#039;s take a look at history:

1. He wrote a blog entry about optimizing Mono&#039;s I/O performance and discovered that in that particular case, it was faster than Java.

You badmouthed him saying that he was a liar. AlexH and Miles ran the tests and concluded that the numbers Mr. Steadfast gave were accurate.

Meanwhile, you &lt;i&gt;refused&lt;/i&gt; to run the tests yourself, insisting that they were wrong and that anyone who ran the tests and found the data to be accurate were simply biased against Java.

2. There was another blog post he made about wishing he could have written a new IMAP backend/plugin/whatever for Evolution in C# because it would have saved him time and effort.

You posted your own article bashing him, GNOME, and Mono saying that Novell was forcing Mono into the core of GNOME.

Needless to say, you were once again proven to be wrong, not him.

3. He posted a blog entry debunking the myths about GNOME depending on Mono with factual evidence backing up his statements.

Once again, you were proven wrong.

Does anyone else see a pattern, here? Because I certainly do.

Roy is consistently proven wrong, again and again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As has been proven in the past whenever you point to Mr. Steadfast&#8217;s blog &#8211; he backs up his statements with irrefutable facts.</p>
<p>Just because you dismiss them simply because he works for Novell, doesn&#8217;t make his evidence untrue. Especially since any unaffiliated objective person can verify his proof.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take a look at history:</p>
<p>1. He wrote a blog entry about optimizing Mono&#8217;s I/O performance and discovered that in that particular case, it was faster than Java.</p>
<p>You badmouthed him saying that he was a liar. AlexH and Miles ran the tests and concluded that the numbers Mr. Steadfast gave were accurate.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, you <i>refused</i> to run the tests yourself, insisting that they were wrong and that anyone who ran the tests and found the data to be accurate were simply biased against Java.</p>
<p>2. There was another blog post he made about wishing he could have written a new IMAP backend/plugin/whatever for Evolution in C# because it would have saved him time and effort.</p>
<p>You posted your own article bashing him, GNOME, and Mono saying that Novell was forcing Mono into the core of GNOME.</p>
<p>Needless to say, you were once again proven to be wrong, not him.</p>
<p>3. He posted a blog entry debunking the myths about GNOME depending on Mono with factual evidence backing up his statements.</p>
<p>Once again, you were proven wrong.</p>
<p>Does anyone else see a pattern, here? Because I certainly do.</p>
<p>Roy is consistently proven wrong, again and again.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-8/#comment-24615</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24615</guid>
		<description>MP3 is another &#039;evil&#039;, but don&#039;t introduce other issues to divert attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MP3 is another &#8216;evil&#8217;, but don&#8217;t introduce other issues to divert attention.</p>
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		<title>By: AlexH</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-8/#comment-24614</link>
		<dc:creator>AlexH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24614</guid>
		<description>We know about Moonlight, and that&#039;s fair enough criticism. 

&quot;No Mono in Fedora 10&quot; is obviously untrue, though. Whether or not it&#039;s on which disc doesn&#039;t seem clear, and even if it&#039;s not in the default install that provides you precisely no legal protection. If it were otherwise, they would ship MP3 support etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We know about Moonlight, and that&#8217;s fair enough criticism. </p>
<p>&#8220;No Mono in Fedora 10&#8243; is obviously untrue, though. Whether or not it&#8217;s on which disc doesn&#8217;t seem clear, and even if it&#8217;s not in the default install that provides you precisely no legal protection. If it were otherwise, they would ship MP3 support etc.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-7/#comment-24611</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24611</guid>
		<description>Well, you have more concrete stuff, such as:

http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/no-mono-in-fedora-10/
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/02/fedora-no-moonlight/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you have more concrete stuff, such as:</p>
<p><a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/no-mono-in-fedora-10/" rel="nofollow">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/no-mono-in-fedora-10/</a><br />
<a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/02/fedora-no-moonlight/" rel="nofollow">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/02/fedora-no-moonlight/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dan O'Brian</title>
		<link>http://techrights.org/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/comment-page-7/#comment-24610</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan O'Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/20/mono-java-dotnet-analysis/#comment-24610</guid>
		<description>AlexH: Roy thinks he&#039;s smarter than everyone else, including lawyers who actually know and understand law.

As you proved a few weeks ago, Roy doesn&#039;t even comprehend a simple aspect of copyright law, nevermind something more complicated like patent law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AlexH: Roy thinks he&#8217;s smarter than everyone else, including lawyers who actually know and understand law.</p>
<p>As you proved a few weeks ago, Roy doesn&#8217;t even comprehend a simple aspect of copyright law, nevermind something more complicated like patent law.</p>
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