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Oct 19 08:01 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
hey, schestowitz |
Oct 19 08:07 |
| schestowitz |
Hey, what’s up? |
Oct 19 08:08 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
I can’t get to the website for some reason |
Oct 19 08:09 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, let me check. |
Oct 19 08:10 |
| schestowitz |
Works fine here. |
Oct 19 08:10 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
now it’s working, sorry |
Oct 19 08:11 |
| schestowitz |
W3C reaches it too: http://validator.w3.org/check?u… |
Oct 19 08:11 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not very stable… not recently anyway. |
Oct 19 08:11 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
yeah, are you hosting it your self |
Oct 19 08:11 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
? |
Oct 19 08:11 |
| schestowitz |
No, Shane has a host. |
Oct 19 08:12 |
| ZiggyFish1 |
and from the validator, it’s not valid html |
Oct 19 08:12 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, cause of the Flash. |
Oct 19 08:14 |
| schestowitz |
I could never get the Flash embedments to please CHTML. |
Oct 19 08:14 |
| schestowitz |
*XHTML |
Oct 19 08:14 |
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Oct 19 08:18 |
| ZiggyFish2 |
sorry, wrong button |
Oct 19 08:18 |
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Oct 19 08:18 |
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Oct 19 09:23 |
| schestowitz |
http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/18/52226 “One of the onsequences of a severe belt tightening economy is just that, tighter budgets, and especially for pure research, studies that aren’t directly a marketing endeavor.” There goes the R&D BS. |
Oct 19 09:25 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200811/airport-security “Airport security in America is a sham—“security theater” designed to make travelers feel better and catch stupid terrorists. Smart ones can get through security with fake boarding passes and all manner of prohibited items—as our correspondent did with ease.” |
Oct 19 09:30 |
| MinceR |
geekings |
Oct 19 09:40 |
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| schestowitz |
Satire: Analysts: credit crunch caused by the poor < http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/17/analys… > |
Oct 19 09:52 |
| schestowitz |
Right on the money with this one (I noticed the same thing): http://www.groklaw.net/article… |
Oct 19 09:54 |
| tessier |
I am hearing more and more about Schneier’s “security theater”. That’s a good thing. People are finally starting to catch on. |
Oct 19 10:01 |
| tessier |
And with a new president on the way hopefully we can put the 9/11 era behind us. |
Oct 19 10:01 |
| schestowitz |
Heh. You wish. |
Oct 19 10:01 |
| schestowitz |
I love “security threatre”. Maybe they can add “Voting threatre” to it. |
Oct 19 10:01 |
| schestowitz |
Oxymoron of the day: “democracy at work”… http://www.courierpostonline.com/articl… |
Oct 19 10:02 |
| schestowitz |
That copyright thing PJ points out is pretty freaky. They turn free text to sold text. I’ve noticed the same thing and was similarly disturbed. I think they also modify headlines to make it hard to find the free copies. |
Oct 19 10:06 |
| trmanco |
https://fossbazaar.org/?q=content/amazing-fig… |
Oct 19 10:43 |
| trmanco |
“In particular, they found that 75% of responding firms use open source software in some way. This figure is up from approximately 13% in the year 2000, which is a major increase in just a few years.” |
Oct 19 10:44 |
| schestowitz |
There are also some Microsoft moles in the Finnish govt. |
Oct 19 10:45 |
| schestowitz |
We’ve accumulated some of their names. |
Oct 19 10:45 |
| schestowitz |
Linus On GEM Patches: UNTESTED CRAP < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n… >. He should be careful. Intel pays his wage, in part. |
Oct 19 10:48 |
| schestowitz |
They needed a ‘study’ to prove this: Depression in moms bad news for their children < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21233/1075/ > |
Oct 19 10:50 |
| schestowitz |
Bray still crying doom and gloom for startups and spending: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/10… http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/10/16… http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/1… |
Oct 19 10:56 |
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Oct 19 11:01 |
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Oct 19 12:01 |
| schestowitz |
There will probably be an article about BN in linux.com next week. Knowing that the site’s parent is sponsored by Microsoft, I don’t expect it to be flattering, to say the least. |
Oct 19 15:11 |
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Oct 19 15:11 |
| _Doug |
Corn growers oppose Google/Yahoo deal .. |
Oct 19 15:12 |
| _Doug |
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/… |
Oct 19 15:12 |
| schestowitz |
No, Microsoft is just hiring shills again: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/… |
Oct 19 15:13 |
| schestowitz |
To me, that’s just another reason to embargo Microsoft, at least in the EU. When the government is controlled by a company that plays these tricks, then politics should just be seen as corrupt and monopolies seen as government-ranted/protected. |
Oct 19 15:14 |
| schestowitz |
*granted |
Oct 19 15:14 |
| _Doug |
GPL 3: “A compilation of a covered work with other separate and independent works .. is called an \aggregate” |
Oct 19 15:16 |
| _Doug |
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl3-final-rationale.pdf |
Oct 19 15:16 |
| _Doug |
So, if you don’t control the source code, then you don’t control your business .. |
Oct 19 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
I’m writing about this at this very mo’ |
Oct 19 15:18 |
| _Doug |
“If conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License.” |
Oct 19 15:18 |
| _Doug |
“For example, if you agree to terms that obligate you to collect a royalty for further conveying from those to whom you convey the Program, the only way you could satisfy both those terms and this License would be to refrain entirely from conveying the Program.” |
Oct 19 15:19 |
| _Doug |
apart from covering you from getting sued, what further protections do ‘commercial’ non-GPL licenses convey to you ? |
Oct 19 15:20 |
| _Doug |
in terms of security, reliability and fitness of use ? |
Oct 19 15:22 |
| _Doug |
ot: Passport Required To Buy Mobile Phones In the UK .. |
Oct 19 15:24 |
| _Doug |
http://mobile.slashdot.org/mob… |
Oct 19 15:24 |
| schestowitz |
Passport? |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| _Doug |
lucky we don’t live in one of those restrictive police states like the Russian Federation or China  |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| schestowitz |
That’s just the beginning. Wait until you need the ‘ID card’ to buy milk. |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| _Doug |
Microsoft Patents the Censoring of Speech .. |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| _Doug |
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/10/19/1329243.shtml |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| schestowitz |
And you shall swipe that (or rely on RFID) to permit tracking. |
Oct 19 15:25 |
| schestowitz |
Ch-ching. Useless trashable patent #10,001 |
Oct 19 15:26 |
| _Doug |
Open Source FUD from slashdot .. |
Oct 19 15:27 |
| _Doug |
“At the major corporation I work for, there is currently a single person who decides what software to approve and disapprove within the organization .. Anything from Gimp, to Firefox, even to Vim don’t make the cut due to the simple fact that they are open source.” |
Oct 19 15:28 |
| _Doug |
http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/10/18/1810239.shtml |
Oct 19 15:28 |
| schestowitz |
I was gonna write about /. in a koment. |
Oct 19 15:28 |
| schestowitz |
It’s trashed by Microsoft. |
Oct 19 15:28 |
| _Doug |
? |
Oct 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz |
Even Perens acknowledges that. Just unsubscribe from the site and let it die out. |
Oct 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft is a sponsor of Slashdot’s parent company, so expect no vengeance. |
Oct 19 15:29 |
| _Doug |
I see an advert for Bernard Mathews Turkey farms in the currrent article |
Oct 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz |
No, it’s something else that I talk about. |
Oct 19 15:30 |
| _Doug |
‘find out what we do’ .. errr |
Oct 19 15:30 |
| _Doug |
bread turkeys, I would imagion |
Oct 19 15:30 |
| _Doug |
I guess these attacks on ‘Red Hat’ and open source are part admitance that Vista is a turkey .. yea ? |
Oct 19 15:32 |
| schestowitz |
Heh. |
Oct 19 15:33 |
| _Doug |
gtg: back later |
Oct 19 15:33 |
| schestowitz |
Well, I’m happy GL covered it. |
Oct 19 15:33 |
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Oct 19 15:57 |
| _Doug |
I suppose the more turkey adverts on slashdot, the less adverts for Open Source ? |
Oct 19 15:58 |
| schestowitz |
Slashdot? Open source? |
Oct 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz |
That’s just like 10% of what they cover now |
Oct 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz |
Anyway, the site is declining. |
Oct 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz |
Here’s the past I told you about (just published): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/19/microf… |
Oct 19 16:03 |
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Oct 19 16:04 |
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Oct 19 16:04 |
| _Doug |
‘”I can’t imagine something that could be worse than this for Microsoft and the patent troll business’ |
Oct 19 16:05 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll be back in 2 hours. Gone rowing (contest, 4000m). |
Oct 19 16:07 |
| _Doug |
see ya tomorrow … |
Oct 19 16:08 |
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Oct 19 18:14 |
| AlbertoP |
hello |
Oct 19 18:14 |
| AlbertoP |
want some tea? http://slabme.wordpress.com/2008/10/19… |
Oct 19 18:14 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE peachmango edition? |
Oct 19 19:08 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, it’s a real nestlé commercial… a user took a pic in Sydney ^^ |
Oct 19 19:14 |
| AlbertoP |
we were laughing quite a bit  |
Oct 19 19:14 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, I know it’s not Linux-related. The resemblance is uncanny, though. |
Oct 19 19:16 |
| schestowitz |
SUSE should seek the ‘right’ to ‘own’ chameleons. |
Oct 19 19:17 |
| AlbertoP |
nah |
Oct 19 19:17 |
| AlbertoP |
suse mascotte has a funny origin |
Oct 19 19:17 |
| AlbertoP |
it was a real chameleon in the NUE zoo |
Oct 19 19:17 |
| AlbertoP |
one of the founders, if I remember it correctly, liked it, and so… |
Oct 19 19:18 |
| schestowitz |
Simply change (colours)… or O/Ses |
Oct 19 19:18 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe that’s was the idea |
Oct 19 19:19 |
| schestowitz |
maybe afterthought. |
Oct 19 19:20 |
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Oct 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft Patent Trolls Infesting India.. http://spoonfeedin.blogspot.com/2008/10/ind… |
Oct 19 19:52 |
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Oct 19 20:18 |
| kentma |
evening all |
Oct 19 20:19 |
| schestowitz |
hey, kentma. Anything new? |
Oct 19 20:25 |
| kentma |
nothing truly exciting… made som epasta, cut some blackberry canes down, made a banana cake… watched a dreadful film but the kids enjoye dit how about you? |
Oct 19 20:26 |
| kentma |
It’s good to see Terry Porter back again – apparently doing very well, too – good man! |
Oct 19 20:28 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: you heard from Homer at all? |
Oct 19 20:31 |
| schestowitz |
Been away for a few days. Still active elsewhere, though. |
Oct 19 20:32 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: You or Homer? |
Oct 19 20:33 |
| schestowitz |
Homer. |
Oct 19 20:34 |
| kentma |
okay. |
Oct 19 20:34 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: were you contacted by linux,com? |
Oct 19 20:34 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: nothing in my inbox here… should I be expecting? |
Oct 19 20:36 |
| schestowitz |
I thought so. |
Oct 19 20:38 |
| kentma |
oh okay – would you know why, at all? |
Oct 19 20:38 |
| schestowitz |
I gave your contact because they wanted more response from the ‘BN people’. |
Oct 19 20:38 |
| schestowitz |
Homer responded. |
Oct 19 20:39 |
| kentma |
okay, I’ll look out for it – when did you communicate with them? |
Oct 19 20:39 |
| schestowitz |
Heck, I must as well quote it because it’s public. |
Oct 19 20:39 |
| schestowitz |
I can paste it here if you want. |
Oct 19 20:39 |
| kentma |
hmm, could you /msg me, please? |
Oct 19 20:40 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: no, they communicated with me and others. My guess is that they try to trip us up, but there ya go. |
Oct 19 20:40 |
| kentma |
aha – I see. I thought linux.com were teh good guys? |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Homer gave them too much ammunition but saying the truth: |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
I’m more than happy to make comments about BN and the situation with |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft in general. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
In summary; the problem is Microsoft (naturally). There are other |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
parties who got caught up in their corruption, some more innocent than |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
others. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Much of the backlash against BN comes from those who either a) believe |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft is innocent (naive), or b) don’t care about Microsoft’s |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
behaviour one way or another (malice), or c) don’t necessarily support |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft, but they wrongly believe any attack against this partnership |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
(or similar) is an attack against a Linux distro and its contributors |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
(miss-attribution). It isn’t, it’s a counter-attack against Microsoft |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
and all who support them, whoever they may be. If that happens to |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
coincide with certain people who are supposedly Free Software advocates, |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
then that is more to do with those misguided individuals than us. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
IOW I suppose BN tends to polarise the issue, as do I – frankly. I make |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
no apologies for that, since AFAIAC one is either part of the problem or |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
part of the solution. Microsoft is a vicious corporation with zero moral |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
standards, convicted of anti-trust crimes on multiple occasions on at |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
least two continents, and with a predilection for bribery; threats; |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
smear campaigns; fake grass-root campaigns; planting “Munchkins” in |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
forums and elsewhere; hiring Shill journalists and “analysts”; attacking |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
charities (OLPC); and operating a global racketeering operation using |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
clandestine contracts (known as MoUs) to exclude all competition. They |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
are thugs and gangsters, and I have zero sympathy for those who support |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
them. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Note that there is considerable documented evidence for all the above, |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
much of which is provided courtesy of the US DOJ. I only mention this |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
because I’m so used to having to deal with denialists who are so blinded |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
by their devotion to MS that they refuse to acknowledge Microsoft’s |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
crimes (or simply don’t care because they are just as malevolent). This |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
is not a reflection on (what I assume is) your position in any way |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
whatsoever. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Also note that at least some of the backlash against BN comes from |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft itself, via Shills and “Gold Partners” – e.g. Jesper Lund |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Stocholm. Indeed, de Icaza and Stockholm invaded the Linux advocacy |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
newsgroup [*] immediately prior to the BRM for DIS 29500, obviously in |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
order to astroturf for Microsoft (they never appeared in that group |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
before or since), and both of them have spent considerable time |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
astroturfing on BN too. Other anonymous pro-Microsoft/Novell |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
“contributors” are equally suspect, but then Shane and Roy would know |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
more about that, given their access to the site logs (IP numbers). |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
My particular angle is what I term “Poisonware”, i.e. software |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
encumbered by Microsoft patents, that is injected into the Free Software |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
community in order to kill it. Two prime examples are Mono and Moonlight |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
- both of which were founded by Novell’s VP, de Icaza. Let me be clear |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
that the problem here is not /patents/ per se, but the /patentor/ - |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft. Software which is otherwise Free (GPL) but (depending on the |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
jurisdiction) encumbered by patents held by /other/ companies, is not |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
the same level of threat as software encumbered by Microsoft patents, |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
since few of those other companies are self-declared enemies of Free |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Software (“Linux is a cancer”) with vicious anti-FOSS agendas (indeed - |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
vicious anit-*competition* agendas, in general). For example, Adobe |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
provides patent-encumbered software for GNU/Linux, but they clearly |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
don’t hold an anti-Linux position (Ballmer: “every Linux customer has an |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
undisclosed balance-sheet liability”). |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
It’s only natural that thugs like Microsoft should make such attacks, |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
but one does not then expect people /within/ the Free Software community |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
to help them achieve their vile goals. Novell is one such party who has |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
betrayed their own community, and some within that community are either |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
turning a blind-eye to that activity or pro-actively supporting it. My |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
dissent (and I presume BN’s too) is first and foremost against |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft; then with those who support them (companies and management - |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
e.g. Novell); and lastly with those is the community who support those |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
alliances – in word or in deed. This may be the active support of using |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
or developing Microsoft technologies, then spreading that Poisonware |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
within the Free Software community, or it may be the passive support of |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
refusing to recognise the problem, instead choosing to “shoot the |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
messenger”. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
IMHO BN provides an invaluable service by exposing the truth about |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft and it’s allies. Some of that exposure may be speculative, but |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
most is based on documented fact that can be independently verified |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
(indeed BN maintains extensive links to its sources). The fact that |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft and its supporters don’t like the truth being exposed and |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
continually expounded is not at all surprising. It’s as simple as that. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
You have my permission to reprint any of this message, with attribution. |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
[*] http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… |
Oct 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz |
END OF QUOTE from Homer. |
Oct 19 20:42 |
| schestowitz |
Regarding Linux.com, it’s not as simply as you think. Their parent company is still rather friendly towards Microsoft. |
Oct 19 20:42 |
| kentma |
wow – superflood! Anyway, I got most of it. It’s a good analysis, and Homer is always very eloquent. |
Oct 19 20:44 |
| kentma |
oddly, linux.com doesn’t seem to render very well in FF3 here. |
Oct 19 20:45 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: the thing is this.. |
Oct 19 20:46 |
| schestowitz |
I bet they’ll try to cherry-pick bits that daemonise the site. |
Oct 19 20:46 |
| schestowitz |
I believe the purpose of the article, due to request for balance, is to paint it in a negative light. Given the author, it’s more than likely. |
Oct 19 20:47 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: of course they will, but the only way to avoid that possibility is never to say anything at all. We see selective snipping in usenet all the time – cherry picking a web-site is no different. It’s reprehensible, of course, but that’s people for you. |
Oct 19 20:47 |
| schestowitz |
It goes both ways. |
Oct 19 20:48 |
| kentma |
Besides, in a way, having linux.com taking a position is quite good, since it will encourage more readership of the whole issue – there’s no such thing as bad publicity… |
Oct 19 20:48 |
| schestowitz |
Hey, look what I’ve just found by coincidence: http://groups.google.com/group/lucky… |
Oct 19 20:50 |
| kentma |
interesting – the author/bot leaves the .sigs on, whereas I remove them. Do you think I should leave them on? |
Oct 19 20:51 |
| schestowitz |
It’s almost as though they borrowed your ‘thing’. |
Oct 19 20:51 |
| schestowitz |
Did you reuse any code? |
Oct 19 20:51 |
| kentma |
me? no, mine’s all original me, although I’m following an RFC – the format is pretty standard, I think. |
Oct 19 20:52 |
| kentma |
you can have the sed & bash script if you’d like. |
Oct 19 20:52 |
| schestowitz |
I found it by serendipity, checking to ensure if I had posted something already. |
Oct 19 20:52 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: it’s amazing just how many places the digest is now popping up. I really had no idea that it would become this “syndicated”. |
Oct 19 20:54 |
| schestowitz |
I found it occasionally when searching for things. It hopefully helps people find articles of use as well as context. |
Oct 19 20:55 |
| kentma |
the combination of summaries, urls and related articles is a very powerful one. It’s almost like a semantic search engine in itself |
Oct 19 20:56 |
| schestowitz |
The thing started (and remained) innocent ‘ammunition’ against Microsoft munchkins. It’s interesting how, in due time, this became a good basis for writing articles,swapping /evidence/ of stuff and helping authors find articles related to theirs. |
Oct 19 20:57 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: quite… from acorns and all that. Personally, I find them a useful source of information now, particularly as some articles can tend to disappear over time. |
Oct 19 21:00 |
| schestowitz |
Economics news: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&200… . A few hours ago I had a conversation with someone from Dubai. Appearantly they are getting filthy rich there at the moment, whereas the US is falling deeper into debt. The shit of power in coming years (see chart) will be interesting. |
Oct 19 21:00 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: try Google News search (with archives). You can find some material from the 80s. |
Oct 19 21:01 |
| kentma |
80s? wow! |
Oct 19 21:01 |
| schestowitz |
Yesterday PJ wrote about a serious issued related to this though: http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph… |
Oct 19 21:02 |
| kentma |
I’ve seen the rigidity charts for the US before… they do rather bely the commonly held belief that people in the US can more easily become rich than elsewhere. |
Oct 19 21:02 |
| kentma |
It’s funny how languages move on – I love this: |
Oct 19 21:03 |
| kentma |
mais ce clash-là |
Oct 19 21:03 |
| kentma |
hehe |
Oct 19 21:03 |
| schestowitz |
The blog is multi-lingual (3 langs) |
Oct 19 21:04 |
| kentma |
and also relève toujours du wishful thinking |
Oct 19 21:04 |
| kentma |
it’s great – I like it. I should read it more often. |
Oct 19 21:04 |
| schestowitz |
I use it as a source of news about the economy. He has no mercy and he accumulates academic information not the “It’s all under control” propaganda from Faux. |
Oct 19 21:05 |
| kentma |
I hadn’t realised that Castro had remarked on the dollar valuation, btw. |
Oct 19 21:05 |
| kentma |
I like the one about the tatoo, btw – hehe. |
Oct 19 21:06 |
| kentma |
3) Vous prendrez plaisir à toucher votre argent. |
Oct 19 21:07 |
| kentma |
I know it’s a bit laddish, but it’s funny … |
Oct 19 21:08 |
| schestowitz |
I’ve just found out more evidence of corruption. |
Oct 19 21:08 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=44… “Some judges of the CAFC are even patent attorneys. It is sure that those “specialized” judges have a serious biais in favour of patents. Some critics says that they even lowered the barriers of novelty, making easier to get patents.” |
Oct 19 21:09 |
| schestowitz |
This is similar to what the RIAA did — appointing and reappointing judges to put string puppets in place. |
Oct 19 21:09 |
| schestowitz |
“Microsoft’s stock price regularly takes a hit on the days it issues security patches, according to research released last week” From < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152460/micros… > |
Oct 19 21:15 |
| kentma |
Now that’s an interesting thing. One wonders if the markets are waiting for MS to collapse in a pile. |
Oct 19 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
They have buybacks. |
Oct 19 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
They have about $20B (or less) in savings and they are preparing for debt. |
Oct 19 21:17 |
| kentma |
until they run out of cash. then they’ll have to sell debt. |
Oct 19 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
They could just go private. |
Oct 19 21:17 |
| kentma |
why would they? what would their credit rating be? I dont’ think that they have a future. |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
Novell and Sun are said to be in a positon to look into it. |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| kentma |
into what? |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: they try to embrace FOSS now. |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
EEE (extinguish) |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| kentma |
ms? |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
They deny distributing FOSS, but they pretty much give Drupal and stuff now. |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| kentma |
ah, yes, of course, I see what you mean. |
Oct 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
It would kill their margins. |
Oct 19 21:19 |
| kentma |
it’s been duffing up their margins for a long time, I suspect. |
Oct 19 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
Which are already poor anyway. They sell XP for almost nothing, some say they give it for a loss (I lack evidence though) |
Oct 19 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
Office also… almost forgot the #1 cash cow. |
Oct 19 21:20 |
| schestowitz |
They give cash cow for free to some young people and developing countries because the less privileged just go online, typo in “zoho”, “google apps” or “openoffice downlod”. |
Oct 19 21:20 |
| kentma |
I can’t see how they could do XP at a loss. They finished it years ago – there is no production cost, and as they don’t make any effort to fix problems beyond the most extreme security issues, there’s essentially no maintenance costs, either. It’s the perfect product from that point of view. |
Oct 19 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
Well, there’s 3$ Office+Windows, but that’s limited. very. |
Oct 19 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
*$3 |
Oct 19 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
I imagine they’ll continue to disappoint in their report on Thursday (??? |
Oct 19 21:22 |
| kentma |
US$3.00 for zero product cost is still an infinite margin, though. |
Oct 19 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
20.. 21.. yes, Thursday that is. |
Oct 19 21:22 |
| *trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button ”) |
Oct 19 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
23 Oct is their Q3 report, I think. They disappointed in April and July (the stock sank). |
Oct 19 21:22 |
| kentma |
tough times at the moment, anyway, though. |
Oct 19 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
Bad for Microsoft, okay for Free software. |
Oct 19 21:25 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, they always gave MSO for almost nothing to young people, students, teachers, schools… |
Oct 19 21:26 |
| AlbertoP |
not really a new move |
Oct 19 21:26 |
| schestowitz |
Just found this: Live and let license < http://www.itworld.com/LWD010523vcontrol4 > ” |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
If you’re ever confused by, or mixed up the terms, “open source” and |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
“free sofware,” this is for you. It’s a primer on the topic of what |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
they are, how they are alike, and how they are different. So if |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
you’ve heard of the GPL, but are not exactly sure what it is or what |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
it does, this is for you. Armed with what you learn here, you will |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
be much less vulnerable to the veritable barrage of FUD that the |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
Redmondian Empire is hurling at the whole open source/free software |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
world.” |
Oct 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-s… “The main initial motivation for the term “open source software” is that the ethical ideas of “free software” make some people uneasy. That’s true: talking about freedom, about ethical issues, about responsibilities as well as convenience, is asking people to think about things they might prefer to ignore, such as whether their conduct is ethical. “ |
Oct 19 21:38 |
| kentma |
survival. they’re losing this particular battle (unsurprisingly – it’s basic economics). |
Oct 19 21:38 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, sharing is better than not sharing. It makes better goods. |
Oct 19 21:39 |
| AlbertoP |
well, quite a controversial statement actually |
Oct 19 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
It’s the same in research. Even Hollywood has begun realising that it’s losing audiences by shutting its Internet doors, so it’s not pushing videos into YouTube for its own promotion. |
Oct 19 21:39 |
| AlbertoP |
it really depends on what you’re thinking to |
Oct 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: which statement? |
Oct 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
I am awarer that SUSE/Novell people hardly care about freedom |
Oct 19 21:40 |
| AlbertoP |
this one: ”sharing is better than not sharing. It makes better goods.” |
Oct 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
A friend of mine got banned from SUSEforums for raising the subject of GPL there. |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| AlbertoP |
link? |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz |
It’s somewhere in BN |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz |
2007 |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| kentma |
how can you get banned for asking about the GPL? |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| AlbertoP |
I doubt it happened for that reason, but I’m curious ^^ |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: why do you doubt this? |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, it depends how you ask and where…if you’re off-topic |
Oct 19 21:41 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, 2007? |
Oct 19 21:42 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: how can the GPL ever be off-topic in a Linux distributor’s forum? That’s absurd. |
Oct 19 21:42 |
| AlbertoP |
forums were not there as official opensuse media at those times |
Oct 19 21:42 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: AlbertoP is one of the ‘SUSE people’. |
Oct 19 21:42 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, for me it’s off-topic in a support forum, and I would ban myself if someone keeps pointing the topic out |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
(not that he’s a ‘bad person’ or anything) |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: oh, I see. |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: no, just dishonest. |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, no, schestowitz is quite wrong |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
I’m not an opensuse guy |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
I just use opensuse ^^ |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: I don’t believe you. |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
You are a contributor. |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
oh feel free to |
Oct 19 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, yes I’m a contributor, not a member, not an employee |
Oct 19 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
I still see you in the OpenSUSE site. They also rewarded you for contributions (Novell) |
Oct 19 21:44 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: I am free. And I’m not dishonest. |
Oct 19 21:44 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, well, your opinion is quite cheap if based only on the fact “I’m opensuse user -> dishonest” ^^ |
Oct 19 21:44 |
| AlbertoP |
It takes a lot of time to judge people to me, but well… |
Oct 19 21:44 |
| AlbertoP |
that statement says more about you than about me |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: Opensuse is different from “openSUSE in {boycottnovell form}” |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: you’re already being dishonest – you’re misquoting. |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, they rewarded me as any other contributor, yes. |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
That’s like a monk versus a monk in a mosque. |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: you recall what we were saying earlier about selective snipping… |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, different because I don’t use the official capitolization? |
Oct 19 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
Selective information disclosure. |
Oct 19 21:46 |
| AlbertoP |
capitalization* |
Oct 19 21:46 |
| AlbertoP |
lol |
Oct 19 21:46 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: exactly. As well as mis-quoting, too. All in just a few moments. |
Oct 19 21:46 |
| AlbertoP |
well, you practically know all about me from my blog, linked also on your site ^^ |
Oct 19 21:46 |
| AlbertoP |
if you don’t trust that, it’s your problem^^ |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
You have a blog? |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| AlbertoP |
oh yes |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
I didn’t realise it was yours then. |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
Unless it’s a Lizards blog. |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| AlbertoP |
it’s not |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: why are you here? |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| AlbertoP |
and on my blog there’s the link to my linkedIn profile |
Oct 19 21:47 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, why should I not be here? |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: why are you here? |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, because I find it funny |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: but you’re not funny at all. |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, I see it in the comments now: http://albertopassalacqua.com/ |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.linkedin.com/in/albertop |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| AlbertoP |
right |
Oct 19 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
Funny, the usual excuse. |
Oct 19 21:49 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: why are you really here? Please don’t be dishonest again. |
Oct 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
Just like benJIman and SUSE/Novell people who read BN |
Oct 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
“we find it entertaining” … “it’s funny” … “we’re not reading, we’re just laughing” |
Oct 19 21:50 |
| schestowitz |
First you ignored, then you.. |
Oct 19 21:50 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: the phrase “get a life” springs to mind. |
Oct 19 21:50 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, I have no second goal really. I’m just curious to see what’s going on here. |
Oct 19 21:50 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: then read the logs. |
Oct 19 21:50 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, I honestly have no time to do that…I spend here just some time |
Oct 19 21:51 |
| AlbertoP |
mainly on weekends when I’ve nothing else to do |
Oct 19 21:51 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: this is the second time I’ve seen you here, both times for extended periods. |
Oct 19 21:51 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: then get a life with something worthwhile to do in it. |
Oct 19 21:51 |
| AlbertoP |
right, and both times when I have nothing to do |
Oct 19 21:52 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: then get a life! There’s a whole world out there… |
Oct 19 21:52 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe don’t worry, my life is already quite full as it is ^_^ |
Oct 19 21:52 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: clearly it’s not. |
Oct 19 21:53 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: are you in #opensuse? |
Oct 19 21:53 |
| AlbertoP |
yes, I’m there |
Oct 19 21:53 |
| schestowitz |
Too quite there? |
Oct 19 21:53 |
| schestowitz |
*quiet |
Oct 19 21:53 |
| kentma |
he’s in lots of opensuse groups… plus something called “blendercoders”. |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| AlbertoP |
not really, it’s a support channel…mainly tech stuff going on |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| schestowitz |
I’m never tempted to intrude Windows forums, even if there’s disagreement. |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| kentma |
and suse |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, opensuse and suse are the same channel |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: no, but you have ethics. |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| AlbertoP |
blendercoders is blender dev channel ^^ |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: #boycottnovell #opensuse-edu #opensuse-gnome #blendercoders #opensuse-translation #opensuse-chat #opensuse-it #suse |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| schestowitz |
How can you check this? |
Oct 19 21:54 |
| AlbertoP |
right…and not really a secret |
Oct 19 21:55 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, just check my nicks info’s |
Oct 19 21:55 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: it’s a standard info command in irc. |
Oct 19 21:55 |
| AlbertoP |
nick* |
Oct 19 21:55 |
| kentma |
‘ /whois nick |
Oct 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz |
Ah, I seee… |
Oct 19 21:56 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: on pidgin you can right-click on the nick in the list and info is offered as a menu item. It’s the same command. |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman is only here. |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| *GasFurnace (n=Administ@c-98-216-40-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| AlbertoP |
same in xchat |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| schestowitz |
Not bad for a SUSE guy. |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| AlbertoP |
no, benji is in opensuse-chat also |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| GasFurnace |
suse sucks |
Oct 19 21:57 |
| AlbertoP |
and in #suse |
Oct 19 21:58 |
| schestowitz |
tessier is all over the place. |
Oct 19 21:59 |
| *GasFurnace (n=Administ@c-98-216-40-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell |
Oct 19 21:59 |
| kentma |
i used to sit in debian, but ran out of time… |
Oct 19 21:59 |
| AlbertoP |
that’s why my contributions to suse tend to zero…no time :\ |
Oct 19 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
If you like SUSE, why are you visiting this channel? |
Oct 19 22:02 |
| schestowitz |
You can read the log the following day for ‘amusement ‘rather than become /part/ of it. |
Oct 19 22:02 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: because he lacks a sense of humour? |
Oct 19 22:02 |
| schestowitz |
It’s like watching mud wrestlers on TV without entering the mud. |
Oct 19 22:02 |
| AlbertoP |
The answer is in your question. I like SUSE and so I don’t really understand all the fud generated around it. So I try to understand. |
Oct 19 22:03 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: so your remarks about finding it funny were merely untrue? |
Oct 19 22:04 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, no, I actually find it extremely funny. Especially when one cent of truth is mixed with so much fud… |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| kentma |
so your remark about “not understanding” was a lie, then, as you believe that you do? |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| AlbertoP |
I still don’t know why you do all this, where you find the time and the resources though ^_^ |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not about ‘humour’ then. |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| schestowitz |
It’s about heckling. |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| schestowitz |
Like AlexH and Dan O’Brian. |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: he can’t even keep two responses consistent – the chap is deeply disingenuous. |
Oct 19 22:05 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, you don’t need a contraddictory to be honest. You do it perfectly by yourself |
Oct 19 22:06 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: and must be amazingly bored. |
Oct 19 22:06 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, hehe the concept of consistency is not proper of the channel/site frankly. And what you do can be funny and at the same time not understandable. Actually the two things are perfectly connected. |
Oct 19 22:07 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: what’s most worrying is that he appears to be reasonably intelligent, and yet acts as if he’s incapable of grasping basic logic. Sort of applied “doublethink”. |
Oct 19 22:07 |
| tessier |
Why do MS/Novell/Suse people keep coming in here to troll? It’s weird. I keep an eye on a few Windows related mailing lists and I never see such trolling. |
Oct 19 22:08 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: that’s just a load of tosh. Have you read 1984? You would be a good party member. |
Oct 19 22:08 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, haha |
Oct 19 22:08 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, again…know something about people before judging them. It adds value to words. |
Oct 19 22:08 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: still humour impaired, then. |
Oct 19 22:08 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: why are you here? Can you be honest? Do you have that capacity? |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| schestowitz |
I’m more interested in benJIman role here. |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, I answered you already |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| schestowitz |
He has been here since almost day 1. |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: indeed, with three inconsistent responses so far, and counting. |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| schestowitz |
He attends SUSE meeting in their headquarters and he attends almost no other IRC channel. |
Oct 19 22:09 |
| schestowitz |
For a fact, he calls for ‘backup’ when arguments here ‘heat up’ benJIman is like intelligence. |
Oct 19 22:10 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, if you don’t believe I’m not here to “spy” you (spy what??), well, I don’t know how to explain you. |
Oct 19 22:10 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I’ve no idea. I’m on the verge of /ignoring Alberto. |
Oct 19 22:10 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, benJIman is active part in a lot of opensuse channels. |
Oct 19 22:10 |
| schestowitz |
I see just 2. |
Oct 19 22:11 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: is this a new reason, or are you adding it to the other ones? |
Oct 19 22:11 |
| schestowitz |
One of which is this. |
Oct 19 22:11 |
| AlbertoP |
I see #suse #opensuse-chat #opensuse-gnome #boycottnovell |
Oct 19 22:11 |
| AlbertoP |
but he is not connected now |
Oct 19 22:11 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I’m giving up with this guy – he’s just here to disrupt. |
Oct 19 22:12 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: basically, just another kiddy. |
Oct 19 22:12 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: you’ve got about a minute in which you can choose to be honest before I bang you into /ignore land. |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, you see him all the time because he sort of maintains susehelp (bot) |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, do you really think I have reasons to be dishonest? |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| AlbertoP |
if so, let’s discuss about them |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: about 30 seconds left. |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| schestowitz |
You beautify your reasons for being here. |
Oct 19 22:13 |
| schestowitz |
‘funny’ is code for curious or ‘want to interfere’ in my books. |
Oct 19 22:14 |
| AlbertoP |
well, as I said, I suggested to rename this channel #opensuse-comics … it is funny |
Oct 19 22:14 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: it’s “kiddy troll” speak for “disrupt”. |
Oct 19 22:14 |
| kentma |
AlbertoP: unfortunately, you are not and you are now in /ignore. |
Oct 19 22:15 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, but well, I’m always open to a constructive discussion. You should know that. |
Oct 19 22:15 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: /ignore nick is useful, btw. sort of usenet killfile. |
Oct 19 22:15 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I mean irc kfile. |
Oct 19 22:15 |
| MinceR |
it makes following conversations more difficult |
Oct 19 22:16 |
| MinceR |
and moderating a channel even more difficult |
Oct 19 22:16 |
| kentma |
MinceR: not half as much as having trolls does. |
Oct 19 22:16 |
| MinceR |
an op has other ways of getting rid of trolls. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| MinceR |
ways that can benefit the whole channel. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| AlbertoP |
a troll is not someone thinking different ^^ |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| schestowitz |
I never kick though. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| kentma |
MinceR: it depends on how you view things. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| schestowitz |
Trolls are always welcome to leave though. The door is open. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| kentma |
MinceR: one could argue that they can turn up and be ignored. |
Oct 19 22:17 |
| MinceR |
they can be harmful to the discussion |
Oct 19 22:18 |
| kentma |
MinceR: many years on usenet has shown that trolls never change their spots. They come to disrupt, and that’s what they will do. ban them and they’ll just re-nym and be back. |
Oct 19 22:18 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, real trolls are. |
Oct 19 22:18 |
| MinceR |
then ban them by ip address. |
Oct 19 22:18 |
| kentma |
MinceR: and if they have dynamic ip? |
Oct 19 22:18 |
| AlbertoP |
the problem is that you consider troll everyone with differen opinions from yours |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
then ban their ip address range. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| kentma |
MinceR: wrong answer, sorry. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
or just keep kickbanning them until they get bored |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
it’s often less disruptive than letting them talk |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| kentma |
MinceR: it’s a choice thing. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
kentma: no, you’re wrong, sorry. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| kentma |
MinceR: banning ip ranges is not right, sorry. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
kentma: well, someone will have to make choices |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| MinceR |
kentma: ban evasion is not right either. |
Oct 19 22:19 |
| kentma |
MinceR: yes, but banning ip ranges is still not right. |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| kentma |
two wrongs do not a right make… |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| MinceR |
(ban evasion applies already if you apply a ban to username+ip range or username+domain) |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, banning ranges you just exclude people not involved… |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| MinceR |
kentma: often banning a range is the best thing that can be done. |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| kentma |
MinceR: anyway, the point remains that trolls are not helpful, about which I agree. |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| kentma |
banning ranges is not the right thing, though. |
Oct 19 22:20 |
| MinceR |
well, the right thing would involve physically visiting the trolls and kicking their ass. |
Oct 19 22:21 |
| MinceR |
but we usually don’t have that option, do we? |
Oct 19 22:21 |
| kentma |
MinceR: yeah, fair piont |
Oct 19 22:21 |
| schestowitz |
There won’t be banning |
Oct 19 22:21 |
| schestowitz |
It would be a weak spot. We also never delete comments, unless it’s V14agra spam. |
Oct 19 22:22 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: we’ve pretty much covered the pros and cons now |
Oct 19 22:22 |
| MinceR |
still, i think the best approach is starting with a username+ip range or username+domain ban and if they evade by changing the username, omit that from the mask. |
Oct 19 22:22 |
| MinceR |
(usernames tend to be persistent) |
Oct 19 22:22 |
| kentma |
MinceR: if they are, then it’s relatively simple… |
Oct 19 22:22 |
| schestowitz |
No, no banning, please. Think of this as a status change from forums to suppression of speech. |
Oct 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz |
Homer tried this before by kicking people while I was away/asleep and it always backfires. |
Oct 19 22:33 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I agree with you. Personally, I prefer to /ignore. |
Oct 19 22:33 |
| schestowitz |
He has short(er) temper… and channel Op |
Oct 19 22:33 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: they only turn the site/channel into a cesspool once in a week or so… then it quiets down. |
Oct 19 22:34 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: perhaps that’s how they define “funny”? |
Oct 19 22:34 |
| schestowitz |
More ‘sophisticated’ hecklers I’m not arguing with in BN comments: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/19/microf… |
Oct 19 22:34 |
| MinceR |
would you let even floodbots keep “talking”? |
Oct 19 22:36 |
| *[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Oct 19 22:36 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer |
Oct 19 22:36 |
| schestowitz |
wb, [H]omer |
Oct 19 22:36 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: nobody floods anything. |
Oct 19 22:37 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: AlexH was spinning faster than the QE2′s prop… |
Oct 19 22:37 |
| kentma |
[H]omer: hi |
Oct 19 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
There was an incident in 2007 where someone from COLA spread (flooded) libel about me while I was away. |
Oct 19 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
He used BN comments… |
Oct 19 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: Alex responds within minutes. He spends a lot of time heckling the site. |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| twitter |
They have been following me on Slashdot too. They use whatever tools they think they have. |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I know what you mean – there’s been some spread about me. |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| twitter |
People who are always available are paid to do what they do. |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: presumably you’re Alex’s “assignment” |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: they try to limit your use of or presence in the site. |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| kentma |
twitter: indeed |
Oct 19 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
The Munchkins try to do the same to me in Digg. |
Oct 19 22:39 |
| twitter |
It’s not working out very well for them. |
Oct 19 22:39 |
| schestowitz |
They mod down my comments about 4 times within hours of posting, sometimes adding (chaining) insults and then modding these up of doing a puppet show. |
Oct 19 22:39 |
| twitter |
The harder they try, the more obvious they are. |
Oct 19 22:39 |
| kentma |
it’s not sustainable long-term… they will lose. |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| twitter |
They have lost. |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| kentma |
yeah, but in the end, they’re realise |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| twitter |
As soon as they “win” they have lost. |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: they draw more attention to you this way./ |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
Still, you should stop nymming. |
Oct 19 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
They’ll use it against you, and rightly so. |
Oct 19 22:41 |
| schestowitz |
Let the scum be seen for what they are — obsessive, targetted and probably some of Microsoft known and CONFIRMED shills. |
Oct 19 22:41 |
| schestowitz |
I’ve accumulated piles of known incidents in BN |
Oct 19 22:41 |
| schestowitz |
So it’s nothing mythical, it’s a reality and it continues to DATE. |
Oct 19 22:41 |
| twitter |
When I hit my two comment limit at 9AM, I use other accounts. |
Oct 19 22:42 |
| twitter |
This is something we disagree about. Let’s not waste time with it again. |
Oct 19 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
You should publish a list of Slashdot shills. You don’t need ‘smoking guns’. We have lots of them already. |
Oct 19 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
I’d love to maintain a list of shill accounts in /. |
Oct 19 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
I know a few there who also shill in Digg.com and USENET. |
Oct 19 22:43 |
| schestowitz |
But in Slashdot they can post anonymously (not possible in Digg) |
Oct 19 22:43 |
| twitter |
I try to keep the troll zoo up. It is a lot of work. |
Oct 19 22:43 |
| kentma |
maybe whoever runs the cola shill list could add some slash ones, too? |
Oct 19 22:43 |
| twitter |
They are the same PR people. Same tactics, talking points and language. |
Oct 19 22:44 |
| kentma |
yup |
Oct 19 22:45 |
| twitter |
the AlexH thread above is stuff I see all the time. |
Oct 19 22:45 |
| MinceR |
004231 <@schestowitz> MinceR: nobody floods anything. |
Oct 19 22:45 |
| MinceR |
well, perhaps not here, not now :> |
Oct 19 22:45 |
| schestowitz |
LawMedia… FullSIX, Wagner Endstrum… some of them must be reported to the FTC |
Oct 19 22:45 |
| schestowitz |
Not that anything would happen. People attest to Microsoft’s actual control -via insiders — of regulation bodies in the US |
Oct 19 22:46 |
| twitter |
Deep corruption, :’( |
Oct 19 22:46 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: he takes posts off topic and drains a lot of time. Posted minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/mono-co… |
Oct 19 22:47 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/0… |
Oct 19 22:47 |
| schestowitz |
Heh. It’s in page one for her name: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient…‘gara |
Oct 19 22:48 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* just found this: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index…‘Gara |
Oct 19 22:49 |
| twitter |
I don’t like that site. |
Oct 19 22:49 |
| schestowitz |
Same libel there. There were no DDOS attacks. |
Oct 19 22:50 |
| schestowitz |
Same lies, different day, different page. Even Sys-con denied it. |
Oct 19 22:50 |
| AlbertoP |
<twitter> People who are always available are paid to do what they do. <— Well, I might say the same of you. But I don’t because I have no proofs, so why should you suspect of others without any proof? |
Oct 19 22:52 |
| twitter |
For one thing, I’m not always available. |
Oct 19 22:53 |
| twitter |
For another, Roy Knows who I am via email and web sites. |
Oct 19 22:53 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe don’t underestimate teens without anything to do twitter  |
Oct 19 22:53 |
| AlbertoP |
twitter, I didn’t mean you’re paid… |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| twitter |
These people have been following me around for 8 years. |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| AlbertoP |
8 years? |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| twitter |
Something like that. |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| AlbertoP |
BN is not so old  |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| twitter |
Slashdot is. |
Oct 19 22:54 |
| AlbertoP |
I see |
Oct 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz |
And they defend a monopolist busted for shilling. |
Oct 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz |
Why would anyone defend or befriend such a beast? |
Oct 19 22:56 |
| twitter |
For the tshirts? |
Oct 19 22:56 |
| schestowitz |
Compensation or incentives can be made even if they are Microsoft partners receiving favours. |
Oct 19 22:56 |
| twitter |
a zune? |
Oct 19 22:56 |
| AlbertoP |
Well, schestowitz someone thinks you’re paid by MS either to spread fud around N too. ^_^ |
Oct 19 22:56 |
| twitter |
These guys are working for a PR firm. |
Oct 19 22:57 |
| AlbertoP |
and that someone is not me |
Oct 19 22:57 |
| schestowitz |
Just days ago we saw a Nigerian prince (also a Microsoft employee) attacking a blogger and blog that criticised Microsoft for shilling… paying for people to subvert Wikipedia. |
Oct 19 22:57 |
| schestowitz |
It’s quite the army of cronies! Microsoft and its crime spill over and transcend borders. Shills defend other shills while smearing critics. |
Oct 19 22:57 |
| twitter |
Their instant response is quite amazing, even if it’s low quality there is always something. |
Oct 19 22:58 |
| twitter |
It must cost them a considerable portion of their advertising budget. |
Oct 19 22:59 |
| twitter |
Every now and then, they send in someone who knows something technical. Mostly they are full of shit. |
Oct 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz |
>> <AlbertoP> Well, schestowitz someone thinks you’re paid by MS >> Rightt…. and Osama is a paid member of the Bush administration, embarking on a campaign to assist making the US a police state. it’s all just a big theatre act. |
Oct 19 23:00 |
| twitter |
They will say anything to discredit a critic. |
Oct 19 23:00 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe I didn’t see I agree with that theory ^^ |
Oct 19 23:00 |
| twitter |
Why bring it up? |
Oct 19 23:02 |
| AlbertoP |
just as an example of strange things you can read around, nothing more |
Oct 19 23:03 |
| twitter |
Eventually, everyone who criticizes M$ is called a fag. M$ uses such attacks to discredit their own agents and the medium itself. |
Oct 19 23:04 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe well, every opensuse user is considered dishonest here ^^ |
Oct 19 23:05 |
| twitter |
really? |
Oct 19 23:05 |
| AlbertoP |
well, at least I’m considered “dishonest and without ethics” ¬¬ |
Oct 19 23:06 |
| twitter |
Roy should write up a page with your more blatant comments and link to it when you bother him. |
Oct 19 23:06 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe I was not bothering him |
Oct 19 23:07 |
| twitter |
Dishonesty bothers everyone. |
Oct 19 23:07 |
| AlbertoP |
hum right, still have to see why I’m not honest ^^ |
Oct 19 23:07 |
| MinceR |
gn |
Oct 19 23:09 |
| twitter |
that’s why Roy needs to make a page for you. It will help everyone out and it would be quicker than endlessly arguing the same things with you. |
Oct 19 23:10 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: been called that and even worst things. All libelous of course. |
Oct 19 23:10 |
| twitter |
If you look at it long enough, you discover that all Apple users are gay and or crazy for not just “going with the flow” and using a “PC” |
Oct 19 23:11 |
| AlbertoP |
Oo |
Oct 19 23:12 |
| twitter |
That’s M$ propaganda, not my opinion. |
Oct 19 23:12 |
| twitter |
Everything not M$ is just “impractical” they have been saying for more than a decade. |
Oct 19 23:12 |
| AlbertoP |
well, hard to say that macs are impractical |
Oct 19 23:13 |
| AlbertoP |
probably the best usability is in macs ^^ |
Oct 19 23:13 |
| *schestowitz whistles at myths |
Oct 19 23:14 |
| AlbertoP |
time I run, bye |
Oct 19 23:16 |
| *AlbertoP has quit (“Sto andando via”) |
Oct 19 23:17 |
| *kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) |
Oct 19 23:47 |
Betto said,
October 20, 2008 at 9:35 pm
For example twitter, would you say you are actively fighting the “M$” paid people that are allegedly after you:
http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1316539
Or are you just worried about hitting your posting limit by 9:00 AM?
http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377
Do you deny that all of those accounts are operated by you?
Betto said,
October 20, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Here’s another shill thread, fresh off your keyboard:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1000675&cid=25448977
You’re just fighting “M$” here, correct?
Where else do you play these games, twitter. Here on BN? Other advocacy websites? Ho many accounts do you operate on Groklaw? The CNet forums?