11.30.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 29th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:36 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

schestowitz	http://rodgerdean.org/blog/2008/11/28/ope… (Open Letter to Mr.Hervé Yahi, Mandriva CEO)	Nov 29 00:00
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/…	Nov 29 00:24
schestowitz	What is the opposite of “analogy”?	Nov 29 00:40
[H]omer	antithesis	Nov 29 01:03
schestowitz	Too late, but thanks.	Nov 29 01:03
[H]omer	I just got here	Nov 29 01:04
schestowitz	It also didn’t fit the context (samba vs mono)	Nov 29 01:04
schestowitz	An argument I was having.,.. I posted the reply a while ago.	Nov 29 01:04
[H]omer	I guess a lot can happen in 25 minutes	Nov 29 01:05
schestowitz	Mono is very much on the edge at the moment. The Mono boosters are shaky.	Nov 29 01:05
[H]omer	I just read about Adam Williamson	Nov 29 01:06
schestowitz	Yes, I wrote about it too.	Nov 29 01:07
schestowitz	First Gael, now him?	Nov 29 01:07
[H]omer	Good thing I don’t have a job to lose, or they’d be firing me for criticising LeechBuntu too.	Nov 29 01:07
schestowitz	I think they are just threatened by spiritual leaders… so the CEOs get rid of them.	Nov 29 01:07
schestowitz	[H]omer: Adam mailed about it.	Nov 29 01:07
schestowitz	I spread his post about Canonical around because he was interested.	Nov 29 01:08
[H]omer	Just one of the many problems with “commercial” distos. It’s money first; last and always.	Nov 29 01:08
schestowitz	But he also said some things about TrueCrypt, calling them names.	Nov 29 01:08
[H]omer	Really? I missed that. Like what?	Nov 29 01:08
schestowitz	The French government should adopt Mandriva.	Nov 29 01:09
schestowitz	They already adopt the Real Deal in Parliament?	Nov 29 01:09
schestowitz	Those fools went with… drumroll… hypeBuntu	Nov 29 01:09
schestowitz	Wait…	Nov 29 01:09
[H]omer	I’ve been a Ubuntu critic from day one, as you well know	Nov 29 01:10
schestowitz	Here it is: http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/08/06/ope…	Nov 29 01:10
[H]omer	This latest fiasco just proves my point	Nov 29 01:10
schestowitz	You can’t say bad things about Ubuntu	Nov 29 01:10
schestowitz	And gosh… did I get slapped for daring to criticise Big Mark.	Nov 29 01:10
[H]omer	Shuttleworth is breeding a generation of Linux users with “Windows mentality”	Nov 29 01:10
schestowitz	Like going into a church, then scolding God	Nov 29 01:11
[H]omer	LOL	Nov 29 01:11
schestowitz	Nobody’s perfect	Nov 29 01:11
schestowitz	I have Ubuntu at home and at work (among other distros)	Nov 29 01:11
schestowitz	I love Ubuntu, I love Mandriva and Fedora, but I also love traveling between distro.	Nov 29 01:11
schestowitz	It’s not like a g/f… there are no ‘fidelity’ issues.	Nov 29 01:11
schestowitz	So I told Adam about this… that saying bad things about Canonical/Ubuntu is asking for trouble.	Nov 29 01:12
schestowitz	He didn’t mind.	Nov 29 01:12
schestowitz	Then Jono Bacon slammed his with a rude rebuttal.	Nov 29 01:12
[H]omer	I just stick with Fedora, as a RH old-timer. I tried Debian once, and I really wanted to like it, since it seems more politically in tune with my ideals, but I just hated APT/dpkg, and had to get back to RPM.	Nov 29 01:13
MinceR	gn	Nov 29 01:13
schestowitz	#1 distro	Nov 29 01:13
schestowitz	Red Hat Enterprise [GNU/]Linux	Nov 29 01:13
schestowitz	There’s Omega for those who want ease	Nov 29 01:13
schestowitz	Linpus is Fedora too…	Nov 29 01:13
[H]omer	BLAG is very interesting, especially their goals.	Nov 29 01:14
[H]omer	Very anti-establishment	Nov 29 01:14
[H]omer	I like	Nov 29 01:14
schestowitz	Anti?	Nov 29 01:14
MinceR	interblag?	Nov 29 01:14
schestowitz	Or pro-distablishment?	Nov 29 01:14
[H]omer	just anti-control / anarchistic	Nov 29 01:14
MinceR	pseudoantidisestablishmentarianism.	Nov 29 01:14
schestowitz	I C..	Nov 29 01:14
[H]omer	quasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianism	Nov 29 01:15
schestowitz	They must be on Clown’s terror list then…	Nov 29 01:15
[H]omer	probably	Nov 29 01:15
MinceR	nice one, [H]omer	Nov 29 01:15
schestowitz	“Send those Icelandic terrorists back home…”	Nov 29 01:15
[H]omer	I know I am	Nov 29 01:15
MinceR	:>	Nov 29 01:15
MinceR	quasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianistic	Nov 29 01:15
schestowitz	Their mouths… they’re like… errr… bombs	Nov 29 01:15
[H]omer	Heck, I’m even on Red Hat’s “watch list”	Nov 29 01:15
MinceR	(2 more letters!)	Nov 29 01:16
[H]omer	quasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianistically speaking	Nov 29 01:16
[H]omer	beat that!	Nov 29 01:16
[H]omer		Nov 29 01:17
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longes…	Nov 29 01:17
[H]omer	Yeah, it’s a chemical or molecule or something	Nov 29 01:17
schestowitz	“Those people of Iceland… They say all those rude things… like quasipseudoantidisestablishmentarianisti”	Nov 29 01:17
[H]omer	isn’t it?	Nov 29 01:17
schestowitz	I bet some spelling bee dork memorised it already	Nov 29 01:18
schestowitz	Not that a human brain can retain useless info for long, but never mind that…	Nov 29 01:18
[H]omer	Then there’s the name of that Welsh town, that goes on for about 100 letters	Nov 29 01:18
[H]omer	Clan… something	Nov 29 01:18
[H]omer	I think it ends gogogoch	Nov 29 01:18
[H]omer	maybe	Nov 29 01:19
schestowitz	Let’s treat our kids like ol’ skool punch card… for show and raves.	Nov 29 01:19
[H]omer	Punch bags more like	Nov 29 01:19
schestowitz	> I think it ends gogogoch ; is that another flatty nym?	Nov 29 01:19
[H]omer	Nah, too long. He lacks the brain power to remember it	Nov 29 01:20
MinceR	titin	Nov 29 01:20
schestowitz	He envies Rex.	Nov 29 01:20
MinceR	http://www.freemedialibrary.com/index.php/Methio…	Nov 29 01:20
schestowitz	As well as many people.	Nov 29 01:20
[H]omer	MinceR, that’s the one	Nov 29 01:20
schestowitz	Lonesome slow-witted guy… possibly a shill for a living.	Nov 29 01:20
MinceR	and there’s also “smiles”	Nov 29 01:20
schestowitz	He still stalks me in sites to harrass.	Nov 29 01:21
[H]omer	Is Smith still stalking you too?	Nov 29 01:21
schestowitz	Yes, but silently.	Nov 29 01:21
[H]omer	He hates it when I call him a stalker. I mean really; really hates it.	Nov 29 01:22
[H]omer		Nov 29 01:22
[H]omer	Well … he is	Nov 29 01:22
schestowitz	He mods everything of mine down and occasionally he crocks about something he read from me, referring to “someone from this NG”	Nov 29 01:22
[H]omer	He should find a new hobby, before he winds-up in jail	Nov 29 01:22
schestowitz	That’s why he’s silent. He’s embarrassed about it.	Nov 29 01:23
schestowitz	He knows my profile better than me.	Nov 29 01:23
[H]omer	In which case why does he still hang around?	Nov 29 01:23
schestowitz	It’s spooky when they start posting stats of mine in COLA… things I would never find out myself.	Nov 29 01:23
[H]omer	It must be a very sad person who spends so much time /deliberately/ seeking the company if his enemies.	Nov 29 01:23
schestowitz	Unless he’s paid to do this or something..	Nov 29 01:24
[H]omer	Uhu	Nov 29 01:24
schestowitz	It has gone on for too long to be an occasional kick.	Nov 29 01:24
[H]omer	It’s pretty damned obvious they’re Munchkins	Nov 29 01:24
schestowitz	I posted something 2 hours ago.	Nov 29 01:25
[H]omer	I just wish they could be exposed, so they could be prosecuted under the new EU anti-shill laws	Nov 29 01:25
schestowitz	Barkto:	Nov 29 01:25
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/28/s…	Nov 29 01:25
[H]omer	Yeah well, like I said earlier … I don’t have a job to lose (retired) so the “Web scrubbers” can bring it on/	Nov 29 01:27
[H]omer	I’ll criticise and expose the Evil Empire® to my dying breath	Nov 29 01:27
schestowitz	They might die before they get exposed again.	Nov 29 01:29
schestowitz	I have quite the catalog of shills in BN, but it’s scattered all around.	Nov 29 01:29
schestowitz	Remember that yuhoung chap?	Nov 29 01:29
schestowitz	You almost kicked him (I never would)	Nov 29 01:29
schestowitz	Well, turns out he’s from Seattle.	Nov 29 01:29
[H]omer	Is it true that Canonical does the same as Microsoft – i.e. have paid “evangelists”?	Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz	He also shills for the Vole in Roughly Drafted.	Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz	And wait for this……	Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09…	Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz	Watch how he slinks away..	Nov 29 01:30
schestowitz	[H]omer: I don’t think so. Would Apple ever do such a thing. I don’t believe it.	Nov 29 01:31
[H]omer	I can actually believe they do. No rational person could be /that/ much of a frothing fanboy for one distro or another. I mean I like Fedora, but you don’t see me “evangelising” it by slating other distros. The only criticisms I ever level at other distros is if they sell out or in some way harm the community	Nov 29 01:35
[H]omer	Like Ubuntu does	Nov 29 01:35
[H]omer	and Novell	Nov 29 01:35
[H]omer	“Proprietary Linux”	Nov 29 01:36
schestowitz	They wouldn’t get away without being caught.	Nov 29 01:36
schestowitz	[Canonical]	Nov 29 01:36
schestowitz	Apple has all sorts of evangelists.. it’s a cult similar to Microsoft.. or “ecosystem” if you like.	Nov 29 01:36
[H]omer	Well the Vole succeeded in doing so with complete impunity for decades	Nov 29 01:36
schestowitz	Microsoft is a huge issue because it attacks rivals.	Nov 29 01:37
[H]omer	brb	Nov 29 01:37
schestowitz	Apple could become the same	Nov 29 01:37
[H]omer	Still up?	Nov 29 02:03
schestowitz	Yes, posting stuff.	Nov 29 02:04
schestowitz	Where were we?	Nov 29 02:04
schestowitz	Ah, shills…	Nov 29 02:04
schestowitz	Apple was successful at brewing its fans and Ubuntu likewise.	Nov 29 02:05
[H]omer	Just to change the subject, and lighten the mood … I’ve been playing around with Amiga emulation for the last couple of days	Nov 29 02:05
[H]omer	Ever used an Amiga (real or otherwise)?	Nov 29 02:05
schestowitz	On your PC system?	Nov 29 02:05
schestowitz	No, it’s before my generation	Nov 29 02:06
[H]omer	Yes, e-uae under Linux	Nov 29 02:06
schestowitz	My older neighbour had Atari	Nov 29 02:06
[H]omer	You should buy a second-hand machine and play around with it. It really reminds you of what’s so much fun about computing	Nov 29 02:06
schestowitz	But the games are nostalgic to you.	Nov 29 02:07
schestowitz	Pong, for example, would do nothing to me.. not of sentimental value anyway	Nov 29 02:07
[H]omer	I’ve been thinking a lot about the “fun” element recently. It’s seems missing from modern computers	Nov 29 02:07
schestowitz	It’s to do with early experiences.	Nov 29 02:07
[H]omer	The “Golden Era”	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	Modern computing and older people? You need to ask kids.	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	They have a tough time coming.	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	I wouldn’t have kids any time in the next 5 years.	Nov 29 02:08
[H]omer	It was the diversity, I think, and the choices that made it so interesting	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20… ( Blooomberg 11/25: Food Prices Will Rise, Causing Export Bans, Riots: Chart of Day )	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601… ( Bloomberg 11/24: U.S. Pledges Top $7.7 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit )	Nov 29 02:08
schestowitz	http://www.cnbc.com/id/27835645 ( CNBC 11/21: All US Financials Will be Nationalized in a Year: Manager )	Nov 29 02:08
[H]omer	Bleh … US economics. (yawn)	Nov 29 02:09
[H]omer	Let ‘em all fry	Nov 29 02:09
[H]omer	in the fat of their own greed	Nov 29 02:09
schestowitz	[Mr. T voice] I pity the fool who just bought a house on a mortgage and made 2 kids	Nov 29 02:09
schestowitz	UK is no sunshine, either, but not nearly as bad.	Nov 29 02:10
[H]omer	LOL, you make it sound like the kids were built in a factory	Nov 29 02:10
schestowitz	I hear the debt here is less than 100bn	Nov 29 02:10
schestowitz	Not 10tr	Nov 29 02:10
schestowitz	[H]omer: yes, I was being sarcastic for comical effect	Nov 29 02:11
[H]omer	That’s what greed does. You hoard iit all, then lose it all (binge and purge), just like an anorexic, only with wider consequences (you hurt others too).	Nov 29 02:11
schestowitz	What’s most amazing is how quickly change came. Well change… not in the Obama sense.. change like a pie in the face.	Nov 29 02:12
[H]omer	Yeah well, remember Black Monday	Nov 29 02:12
[H]omer	Or was it Friday	Nov 29 02:12
schestowitz	Which one?	Nov 29 02:12
[H]omer	I forget	Nov 29 02:12
schestowitz	Firday	Nov 29 02:12
schestowitz	My friend at the gym called last Monday Black Monday	Nov 29 02:13
[H]omer	There’s been a few	Nov 29 02:13
schestowitz	He heard they bring back veterans to the army	Nov 29 02:13
schestowitz	He has informants there.	Nov 29 02:13
schestowitz	But I don’t follow this type of news closely, so maybe it was reported.	Nov 29 02:13
[H]omer	It matters most to those who obsess over money the most, which is why I’m totally disinterested in the rise and fall of the stock market	Nov 29 02:14
[H]omer	I believe strongly in subsistence, nothing more – nothing less	Nov 29 02:14
schestowitz	Won’t work for most people..	Nov 29 02:15
schestowitz	They are not educated that way.	Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer	WorksForMe®	Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer		Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer	I don’t exactly live in a cave, either	Nov 29 02:15
schestowitz	PlaysForSure® (RIP)	Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer	NotSoSure®	Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer	LOL	Nov 29 02:15
[H]omer	They should really trademark that	Nov 29 02:16
schestowitz	NowForTorrent®	Nov 29 02:16
schestowitz	Trademark… gimma a break!	Nov 29 02:16
schestowitz	That whole bullshit system that harbours total control	Nov 29 02:16
schestowitz	Let me find a message I got earlier…	Nov 29 02:16
schestowitz	Watch the comment from ‘bsd guy’: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1…	Nov 29 02:17
[H]omer	They’ve rebranded it “Vista Certified” now, or something. As if media is only “good” if it’s controlled by the Vole’s pet lemon OS..	Nov 29 02:17
schestowitz	Oh noez. He haz my tail!!	Nov 29 02:17
schestowitz	Oh, about Vista… will post this one to COLA in 10 minutes… http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/in…	Nov 29 02:18
[H]omer	Vole should know not to keep lemons as pets, they tend to rot and go off	Nov 29 02:18
schestowitz	“As someone who has been following Microsoft for over 25 years, I remain staggered by the completeness of the Vista fiasco. Microsoft’s constant backtracking on the phasing out of Windows XP is perhaps the most evident proof of the fact that people do not want to be forced to “upgrade” to something that has been memorably described as DRM masquerading as an operating system.”	Nov 29 02:18
schestowitz	Marketing as the answer… didn’t work.	Nov 29 02:18
[H]omer	good analyisis	Nov 29 02:18
schestowitz	They tried Mojava.. Seinfeld… I’ma PC…	Nov 29 02:18
[H]omer	analysis even	Nov 29 02:18
schestowitz	Now they try vapourware (Vista 7)	Nov 29 02:18
[H]omer	Don’t forget “People Power”	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	People-ready	Nov 29 02:19
[H]omer	and “Show Me Your WOW”	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	Maybe that’s what they need	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	Ha.	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	That site is nuked	Nov 29 02:19
[H]omer	so funny	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	BillieG asked for people’s love	Nov 29 02:19
[H]omer	nobody had a single “WOW”. Not one. How sad	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	Then, having exploited people for free ads, they dumped them	Nov 29 02:19
schestowitz	.Like that chap from Microsoft evangleism called it, “one-night stand”	Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz	“Wow”	Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz	It’s… finally. Release.	Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz	Wow.	Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz	*Released	Nov 29 02:20
Omar87	It’s pretty disgusting how some people come out claiming that Mono is such a powerful tool for development, .NET is like the strongest web framework ever existed.. And that there are no other Frameworks or languages that can compete with it..	Nov 29 02:20
schestowitz	Somehow… after Jimmy A. and Swety put LH in the trashcan in 2005	Nov 29 02:20
Omar87	I personally believe .NET won’t even stand a chance against Python..	Nov 29 02:21
schestowitz	Omar87: they could be shills.	Nov 29 02:21
[H]omer	How about their “Games Division”, with emphasis on the word “division” (in the divided sense). They keep assimilating and sacking the contractors. What /that/ all about?	Nov 29 02:21
schestowitz	Omar87: Google uses Python extensively.	Nov 29 02:21
schestowitz	And Google ain’t doing so badly.	Nov 29 02:21
schestowitz	Mono.NET = The Last Slog®	Nov 29 02:21
schestowitz	Next comes Uncle Fester for the LastMeale®	Nov 29 02:22
[H]omer	Mono =	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	NoMo, thank you	Nov 29 02:22
[H]omer	“Destroy the enemy from Within”	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	Yes	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	Novell	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	de Icaza	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	“Microsoft is a reasonable company”	Nov 29 02:22
schestowitz	“They treat me well”	Nov 29 02:22
Omar87	schestowitz: If .NET and Mono were even nearly as good as these morons claim it is, google would’ve been the first company to adopt it, right?	Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz	“hanging out at Microsoft” (real blog title from Migi)	Nov 29 02:23
[H]omer	What’s that phrase from the “Art of War” again?	Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz	Tehre are many	Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz	Microsoft cites them	Nov 29 02:23
[H]omer	About getting your enemy to destroy themselves	Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz	Tsu and alll… watch the Slog memo… it’s Microsoft’s bible.	Nov 29 02:23
[H]omer	That’s the Vole’s plan	Nov 29 02:23
schestowitz	That and Machiavelli perhaps	Nov 29 02:23
[H]omer	Plant “seeds” like Mono	Nov 29 02:24
schestowitz	That’s what the BN campaign is about.	Nov 29 02:24
schestowitz	It’s also mixed source.	Nov 29 02:24
schestowitz	It comes via Novell.	Nov 29 02:24
schestowitz	With women peddling it… like Gartner/IDG, others.	Nov 29 02:24
Omar87	schestowitz: But yeah, that’s the main problem here, you can’t tell which one of them is being paid by Microsoft.	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	Omar87: doesn’t matter.	Nov 29 02:25
[H]omer	What would be in the “Top Ten Poisonware” list	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	If they are foolish enough to defend the monopolist, then it’s all amiss.	Nov 29 02:25
[H]omer	1. Novell	Nov 29 02:25
[H]omer	2. Xandros	Nov 29 02:25
Omar87	Yeah	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	They attack everything that contains substring mono like lucust.	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	locust	Nov 29 02:25
[H]omer	3. TurboLinux	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	Watch Alan write about the “Mono effect”	Nov 29 02:25
schestowitz	He writes about it and band! Traffic is x10 the normal, mostly attacjs.	Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer	4. Mono	Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer	5. Moonlight	Nov 29 02:26
schestowitz	In Ubuntu Brainstorm you can see them too.	Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer	6. Ubuntu	Nov 29 02:26
schestowitz	Suggest removing Mono, get modded down to -20	Nov 29 02:26
schestowitz	They orchestrate this at least in the mailing list	Nov 29 02:26
[H]omer	7. Gnome	Nov 29 02:26
Omar87	schestowitz: And what freaks you out is that Mono isn’t even nearly as good as they say it is. Just because they think .NET is powerful, which it isn’t.	Nov 29 02:27
schestowitz	“Tah Mono Alarma!! Achtung Achtung!! Attack the messenger”	Nov 29 02:27
schestowitz	“They find ze plan…”	Nov 29 02:27
Omar87	Yeah	Nov 29 02:27
*GoblinRFD has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		Nov 29 02:27
schestowitz	And then there’s that ‘humour’ they have about conspiracy	Nov 29 02:27
[H]omer	8. Adobe Flash (making Linux dependent on proprietary software)	Nov 29 02:28
schestowitz	If you watch what they say… and profile… disguising this as humour.	Nov 29 02:28
schestowitz	Samsung, LG, Fuji Xerox…	Nov 29 02:28
[H]omer	Who was sellout-distro No4?	Nov 29 02:29
[H]omer	Linspire	Nov 29 02:29
[H]omer	9. Linspire (defunct)	Nov 29 02:29
[H]omer	Hmm. Got a good one for No10.	Nov 29 02:30
[H]omer	10, Tivo	Nov 29 02:30
schestowitz	Turbolinux was #4	Nov 29 02:30
schestowitz	Among the desktop ones.	Nov 29 02:30
schestowitz	Linus loves tivoization	Nov 29 02:31
[H]omer	I know	Nov 29 02:31
[H]omer		Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz	s/tivoization/market share/	Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz	AKA “Ubuntu bug #1″	Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz	Freedom? Na…	Nov 29 02:31
schestowitz	$$$$$$$$$$$$$$-)	Nov 29 02:32
[H]omer	Everybody “loves” Eric Raymond. 40% fewer people than ever “love” Torvalds	Nov 29 02:32
Omar87	schestowitz: I believe Ubuntu should be renamed.. They should call it Novellbuntu… ><	Nov 29 02:32
schestowitz	Linux loves fame; ESR loves guns	Nov 29 02:32
schestowitz	Omar87: no	Nov 29 02:32
schestowitz	Ubuntu is OK	Nov 29 02:32
[H]omer	Omar87, just call it “LeechBuntu®”	Nov 29 02:32
schestowitz	They need reform re: Novell poisonware	Nov 29 02:33
Omar87	LeechBuntu?	Nov 29 02:33
schestowitz	If they follow Novell’s footsteps, that’s bad	Nov 29 02:33
Omar87	Yeah	Nov 29 02:33
schestowitz	[H]omer: check out my post from 30 minutes ago.	Nov 29 02:33
schestowitz	Fedora Innovateth, Ubuntu Taketh	Nov 29 02:33
schestowitz	It’s based on the news.	Nov 29 02:33
schestowitz	Mark Shuttleowtth: synchronise releases	Nov 29 02:34
[H]omer	Omar87, didn’t you read the criticisms of Canonical for hardly contributing anything back to the community?	Nov 29 02:34
schestowitz	Mark Shuttleowtth: we need more user-friendly.	Nov 29 02:34
schestowitz	Mark Shuttleowtth: more marklet share, more like Macs	Nov 29 02:34
[H]omer	Mark Shuttleworth “We need Apple”	Nov 29 02:34
schestowitz	Mark Shuttleowtth: thanks for that new X.org thing, Fedora. We’ll have some of dat	Nov 29 02:34
[H]omer	Mark Shuttleworth “Mac = Good, Linux = Meh”	Nov 29 02:34
Omar87	[H]omer: Now, i didn’t..	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	I have an issue with his remarks.	Nov 29 02:35
Omar87	No*	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	He fuels the Max trolls.	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	Mac	Nov 29 02:35
[H]omer	Roy, what’s the link to that infamous rant against Ubuntu (low contributions)	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	Mac trolls = Max(imum) trolls	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	Go to Greg’s blog	Nov 29 02:35
schestowitz	But it’s kernel space.	Nov 29 02:35
Omar87	Is it true that Shuttleworth praises Mac?	Nov 29 02:36
schestowitz	Shortly after Canonical had joined LF	Nov 29 02:36
schestowitz	That was like 4 years after Canonical was born.	Nov 29 02:36
[H]omer	Omar87, Yesa	Nov 29 02:36
schestowitz	And years after it had become most used distro	Nov 29 02:36
schestowitz	Omar87: not praises, but sets it as target to defeat	Nov 29 02:36
schestowitz	The problem is that he bashes his ‘own’ ‘work’	Nov 29 02:36
Omar87	schestowitz: oh	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	I.e. all that good code he uses rather than market he bashes	Nov 29 02:37
Omar87	schestowitz: How’s that?	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	As in, “we need to do better”	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	But he mostly waits for input from other groups	Nov 29 02:37
Omar87	Oh	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	That’s fine as long as he’s humble.	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	But he’s not helpful with that ‘”Mac” thing	Nov 29 02:37
schestowitz	I don’t even link to that Mac stuff of his… he’s doing damage	Nov 29 02:38
[H]omer	“Shuttleworth praises Microsoft innovation” http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/corporate/…	Nov 29 02:38
schestowitz	It’s a lousy marketing technique, thank goodness he’s not a Ubuntu marketing guy	Nov 29 02:39
schestowitz	I spoke to their marketing person..Gerry, wasn’t it..?	Nov 29 02:39
*schestowitz looks		Nov 29 02:39
[H]omer	Shuttleworth: “Apple is driving the innovation” http://derstandard.at/PDA/?id=3413801	Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz	“Shuttleworth praises Microsoft innovation and then asserts that the company shares common goals with Ubuntu. One is fighting against spurious process patents.”	Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz	[H]omer: well, they put eye-catching headlines.	Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz	That’s bull of course.	Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz	GUIs are not innovations.	Nov 29 02:40
schestowitz	A lot of the real stuff came from F/OSS.	Nov 29 02:41
schestowitz	He stigmatises F/OSS by making those statements… as though only companies and patent applications bring progress	Nov 29 02:41
Omar87	schestowitz: I feel it’s time for me to explore a new distro.	Nov 29 02:41
[H]omer	“GUIs are not innovations”, especially when they are plagiarised from others (Windows 7 = KDE)	Nov 29 02:42
schestowitz	Yes	Nov 29 02:42
[H]omer	In fact /all/ Windows is stolen from the Mac	Nov 29 02:42
schestowitz	Did you read the same sources?	Nov 29 02:42
schestowitz	Yes, pretty much.	Nov 29 02:42
[H]omer	Think so	Nov 29 02:42
schestowitz	Apart from Clippy	Nov 29 02:42
[H]omer	I bet they even assimilated that	Nov 29 02:42
schestowitz	Clippt is the ashes of Bob	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	It’s pseudo invention	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	Way over the top	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	Like Surface.	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	Who on earth sees value in a SIX-cam device the size of a table???	Nov 29 02:43
[H]omer	Today’s challenge: Name a single Microsoft product that was not assimilated from another company. Just one.	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	Only some rich spolied dude from Seattle would think so.	Nov 29 02:43
schestowitz	As I stressed before because I found out by coincidence, they wanted to kill Surface.	Nov 29 02:44
schestowitz	Bach was gonna kill the embryo of Surface.	Nov 29 02:44
[H]omer	“Surface” was invented by a japanese student at university	Nov 29 02:44
schestowitz	Buy Billie had a dream	Nov 29 02:44
schestowitz	He wanted to show an INNOVA~1 before taking off for political subversion.	Nov 29 02:44
[H]omer	The Vole has to pay him royalties for their overpriced “coffee table”	Nov 29 02:44
schestowitz	It was invested by several research groups independently.	Nov 29 02:45
schestowitz	Does it even serve coffee?	Nov 29 02:45
[H]omer	er	Nov 29 02:45
schestowitz	They’ll never get people to use the SDK and write apps for it.	Nov 29 02:45
schestowitz	There isn’t even a finished SDK yet!!!	Nov 29 02:45
schestowitz	And who on earth would buy this now?	Nov 29 02:46
schestowitz	Airlines are dying, hotels are empty… casinos??? Puh-leeze… there is a new casino in town… it’s call Wall Street	Nov 29 02:46
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anivar	schestowitz: http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issues	Nov 29 02:47
schestowitz	“FSF India does not have a campaign against Novell. We share the concerns raised by the boycott Novell campaign. While Novell is making contribution to free software, many of Novell’s actions put the free software community’s and the users’ freedom at risk.”	Nov 29 02:48
schestowitz	Playing safe then..	Nov 29 02:48
[H]omer	“Jeff Han” is the guy who invented multi-touch (i.e. “surface”) … just found the link	Nov 29 02:48
schestowitz	There is also a group in Barcelona	Nov 29 02:49
schestowitz	2003 or 04, IIRC	Nov 29 02:49
schestowitz	Maybe the Volish chaps got their INSPIR~1 there.	Nov 29 02:49
schestowitz	” FSF India condemns the attack on free software activists who were criticizing Novell in a nonviolent and legitimate way.”	Nov 29 02:50
Omar87	[H]Omer: So Microsoft Surface is yet another stolen invention..	Nov 29 02:50
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schestowitz	anivar: be careful of Novellers trying to gain chair in FSF India	Nov 29 02:50
schestowitz	Needless to say, the same goes for Microsoft spologists.	Nov 29 02:50
anivar	schestowitz: hehe	Nov 29 02:50
schestowitz	They ruin projects or umbrellas from the inside.	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	Just watch LF.	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	(Linux Foundation)	Nov 29 02:51
[H]omer	Omar87, yes – Microsoft’s portfolio is literally a swag-bag of stolen goods.	Nov 29 02:51
anivar	schestowitz: There is no novellers in FSFIndia as I know.	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	Not goods.	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	Innocvations.	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	They patent that drek.	Nov 29 02:51
[H]omer	Omar87, know what Microsoft’s first ever product was?	Nov 29 02:51
schestowitz	LOL	Nov 29 02:52
[H]omer	Omar87, MS BASIC	Nov 29 02:52
schestowitz	Kemenny, no?	Nov 29 02:52
[H]omer	Omar87, know where MS BASIC came from?	Nov 29 02:52
schestowitz	Or two guys from universities.	Nov 29 02:52
Omar87	BASIC? The programming language?	Nov 29 02:52
schestowitz	Qualifications for Microsoft: skillful dumpster diving.	Nov 29 02:52
[H]omer	Omar87, the dumpsters at Harvard University (yes really)	Nov 29 02:52
Omar87	lol	Nov 29 02:53
schestowitz	That where the white horses and the knights came from	Nov 29 02:53
schestowitz	To “Bring PCs to the Masses”(R)	Nov 29 02:53
[H]omer	Omar87, yes the BASIC programming language (just one interpreter for it – the Vole did not invent BASIC- lol)	Nov 29 02:53
Omar87	[H]omer: I wonder what kind of exceptional invention is that..	Nov 29 02:55
[H]omer	Omar87, then they stole DOS from Gary Kildall (CP/M)	Nov 29 02:55
[H]omer	But only /after/ they lied to IBM about having something to sell them	Nov 29 02:55
Omar87	[H]omer: They stole DOS?	Nov 29 02:55
[H]omer	YES	Nov 29 02:55
schestowitz	Poor Gary…	Nov 29 02:55
schestowitz	They left him screwed	Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz	“He [Bill Gates] is divisive. He is manipulative. He is a user. He has taken much from me and the industry.” –Gary Kildall	Nov 29 02:56
Omar87	He died didn’t he?	Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz	Charitable Gates… some guy…	Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz	Omar87: yes	Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz	He has many court documents left in his memory, among other things.	Nov 29 02:56
schestowitz	Some lawyer from a rich family stile his /science/ to become a political activist	Nov 29 02:57
[H]omer	Omar87, know where Microsoft got Windows NT from?	Nov 29 02:57
[H]omer	Hint: subtract one from each letter in “WNT”	Nov 29 02:58
[H]omer	=VMS	Nov 29 02:58
schestowitz	The BBC has already mended all these mistakes	Nov 29 02:58
schestowitz	Revisionism circa June 2008	Nov 29 02:58
Omar87	[H]omer: Where?	Nov 29 02:58
Omar87	[H]omer: Where from?	Nov 29 02:59
[H]omer	The Vole poached a heap of engineers from Digital (VMS) to “write” Windows NT – i.e. copy it line for line	Nov 29 02:59
[H]omer	Digital = DEC	Nov 29 03:00
[H]omer	Omar87, read this archived document by Mark Russinovich (formerly of SysInternals, now at Microsoft. The guy who famously discovered the Sony Rootkit): http://static.slated.org/nt/the-real-nt.html	Nov 29 03:03
[H]omer	Stolen code, every line of it	Nov 29 03:04
[H]omer	Omar87, how about Windows OneCare?	Nov 29 03:04
[H]omer	They assimilated that from RAV Antivirus (a Linux product)	Nov 29 03:04
[H]omer	MS Word was stolen from Xerox PARC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micr…	Nov 29 03:09
[H]omer	Basically everything they’ve ever released is someone else’s cast-offs, or assimilated, or stolen	Nov 29 03:10
[H]omer	“Synet had already trademarked Internet Explorer as a brand name when Microsoft came calling, offering 75 thousand dollars for rights to the name. When they refused Microsoft stole the name anyway, and SSynet went bankrupt fighting the software goliath\u2019s lawyers in court.”	Nov 29 03:14
[H]omer	http://thepopulist.wordpress.com/2003/10/	Nov 29 03:14
[H]omer	“Spyglass, which licensed its browser to Microsoft in return for a percentage of each sale; Microsoft turned the browser into Internet Explorer and bundled it with Windows, giving it away to gain market share but effectively destroying any chance of Spyglass making money from the deal they had signed with Microsoft; Spyglass sued for deception and won a $8 million settlement” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criti…	Nov 29 03:17
schestowitz	gn	Nov 29 03:19
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anivar	http://bunny.medhas.org/2008/11/28/attend-fos…	Nov 29 03:52
schestowitz	anivar: I’m off to bed now but I hope to see you here tomorrow	Nov 29 03:58
schestowitz	I might blog what we spoke about, assuming it’s OK.	Nov 29 03:58
anivar	schestowitz: Ok gn	Nov 29 03:58
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kevin__	hello	Nov 29 04:04
kevin__	it sure is nice to see people buying macs instead of PCs	Nov 29 04:04
kevin__	my brother just purchased one	Nov 29 04:05
kevin__	i have a geforce 7600gs and it works fine	Nov 29 04:14
kevin__	w/proprietary drivers of course	Nov 29 04:15
kevin__	woops wrong channel	Nov 29 04:15
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Omar87	schestowitz: I’m starting to consider switching from Ubuntu to some other distro. where Mono is less incorporated with the system, like Gentoo, Debian.. etc..	Nov 29 06:25
Omar87	What do you think?	Nov 29 06:25
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tacone	schestowitz: have you heard ? linux kernel running on iphone.	Nov 29 08:51
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schestowitz	Claiming undeserved credit: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diar…	Nov 29 10:27
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Omar87	schestowitz: Just read what the convicted monopolist says about his victim Gary Kildall:	Nov 29 11:17
Omar87	Gary Kildall was one of the original pioneers of the PC revolution. He was a very creative computer scientist who did excellent work. Although we were competitors, I always had tremendous respect for his contributions to the PC industry. His untimely death was very unfortunate and he and his work will be missed. The Computer Chronicles. “Special Edition: Gary Kildall.” 1995	Nov 29 11:17
Omar87	That’s Bill Gates if course.	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	Rewriting history	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	Gary has pages in his memory	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	With the court document to show what Microsoft did.	Nov 29 11:18
Omar87	Crocodile tears.	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	Remember…	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	There are reasons why Microsoft is disliked whereas IBM is not really..	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	IBM is like 5 times bigger.	Nov 29 11:18
schestowitz	In terms of staff, IIRC	Nov 29 11:18
Omar87	Yeah	Nov 29 11:19
schestowitz	Microsoft, unlike IBM, can ‘boast’ a history of stepping on people (stomping even)… lots of the victims of Microsoft’s crimes become F/OSS pushers.	Nov 29 11:19
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Omar87	That’s true.	Nov 29 11:20
Omar87	For another example, look what Netscape did after getting stepped on by microsoft.	Nov 29 11:20
schestowitz	I became like I am because of Microsoft smears	Nov 29 11:21
schestowitz	I used to just friendlily advocate “Linux”	Nov 29 11:21
Omar87	One of the facts that so many people don’t know is that Firefox IS actually the old Netscape Navigator.	Nov 29 11:22
NthDegree	I became anti-MS when XP was released.. my system kept telling me it couldn’t read license-related data and preventing me from booting	Nov 29 11:22
NthDegree	Firefox is based on the rendering engine behind netscape	Nov 29 11:22
NthDegree	but Seamonkey is what you want if you want Netscape Navigator, Communicator etc.	Nov 29 11:23
schestowitz	Omar87: yes, Gecko… the engine.	Nov 29 11:24
Omar87	Gecko is for the layout, right?	Nov 29 11:25
schestowitz	Yes	Nov 29 11:26
Omar87	Is it open-source?	Nov 29 11:27
NthDegree	Firefox is Free Software	Nov 29 11:27
NthDegree	They have an EULA which applies to artwork and official binaries, but otherwise it’s Free	Nov 29 11:27
schestowitz	Not anymore.	Nov 29 11:28
schestowitz	Now it’s just a page	Nov 29 11:28
schestowitz	Cautioning a little.	Nov 29 11:28
Omar87	Afaik, they removed the EULA.	Nov 29 11:28
schestowitz	Which still means a restriction nonetheless.. but there’s gnucat and iceweasel.	Nov 29 11:28
schestowitz	Omar87: removed from visibility as a GUI element..	Nov 29 11:28
NthDegree	Nah the EULA is still there but distros remove it via patching	Nov 29 11:29
schestowitz	They made it kind of ‘laid back’…	Nov 29 11:29
NthDegree	downloading an official binary still forces you to agree to it	Nov 29 11:29
Omar87	Oh, ok.	Nov 29 11:29
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schestowitz	WTF? <a href=”http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/20…” title=”Novell and Open Source Communities”>	Nov 29 13:07
schestowitz	http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobi…	Nov 29 13:07
schestowitz	“Terrorism Survival Bundle”	Nov 29 13:07
schestowitz	Alan Greespan: it’s ‘my fault’, I was greedy.. Greenspan – I was wrong about the economy. Sort of < http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/24/eco… >	Nov 29 13:38
Omar87	schestowitz: Why doesn’t Micheal Gagne say anything about Mono being injected in Ubuntu?	Nov 29 13:39
schestowitz	Omar87: I think he talked about it weeks ago	Nov 29 13:40
Omar87	schestowitz: Oh	Nov 29 13:40
schestowitz	It’s a known issue of “controversy”	Nov 29 13:40
Omar87	schestowitz: But, aren’t we sort of oversizing the problem here?	Nov 29 13:40
Omar87	schestowitz: Is it really as much of a horrible crime as sounds?	Nov 29 13:41
schestowitz	Looking at the long term, I think not.	Nov 29 13:41
schestowitz	Novell already tells that it will get closer to Microsoft.	Nov 29 13:41
schestowitz	Novell owns Mono.	Nov 29 13:41
Omar87	Yeah, I know/	Nov 29 13:41
schestowitz	We create a legal/technical dependency on MS right inside the main distros.	Nov 29 13:42
schestowitz	Novell LOVES it when people adopt Mono.	Nov 29 13:42
schestowitz	It controls the pool this way	Nov 29 13:42
Omar87	Like some people say, if you don’t like, you’re not forced to use it.	Nov 29 13:42
Omar87	Controls the pool?	Nov 29 13:42
schestowitz	Here’s the thing.	Nov 29 13:42
schestowitz	Ubuntu should not have installed by default.	Nov 29 13:43
Omar87	schestowitz: What that, I totally agree.	Nov 29 13:43
schestowitz	People don’t call for a ban on Mono (not at first anyway). The problem is that people are fed this poison by default.	Nov 29 13:43
Omar87	schestowitz: It’s just plain pointless to have it installed by default.	Nov 29 13:43
schestowitz	Another problem is that Canonical rewards people who choose .NET.	Nov 29 13:43
Omar87	schestowitz: It does?	Nov 29 13:44
Omar87	schestowitz: But why? What’s the point?	Nov 29 13:44
schestowitz	I don’t know.	Nov 29 13:44
schestowitz	He’s pressured.	Nov 29 13:44
schestowitz	You saw the mono boosters in Brainstorm and the forums.	Nov 29 13:45
schestowitz	There are lots of .NET fans who lobby for it, which puts people like Mark under pressure.	Nov 29 13:45
schestowitz	It’s the ‘democracy’ is being taken over from the inside.	Nov 29 13:45
MinceR	how are you gentlemen !!	Nov 29 13:45
*Omar87 says hi to MinceR		Nov 29 13:46
schestowitz	Howdy, Sir.	Nov 29 13:46
Omar87	schestowitz: So, what Linux do you use?	Nov 29 13:48
schestowitz	Mandriva these days… on my main machine anyway	Nov 29 13:50
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schestowitz	Greed kills: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/11/28…	Nov 29 15:43
schestowitz	Water Wars < http://technocrat.net/d/… >	Nov 29 15:44
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schestowitz	Blowing away what’s left… http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=… < Black Friday traffic takes down Sears.com >	Nov 29 19:41
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schestowitz	Cool, thanks.	Nov 29 20:04
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_doug	what is it ?	Nov 29 20:07
twitter	Hmm, I must have missed something.	Nov 29 20:07
twitter	anything interesting happen in the last two days?	Nov 29 20:07
twitter	thanks	Nov 29 20:08
MinceR	lol @ pedobear	Nov 29 20:08
twitter	pedobear? I must be in the wrong place.	Nov 29 20:09
_doug	the Mumbai tourism board overdid it on the hospitality ..	Nov 29 20:09
twitter	I hope they treated you well _doug	Nov 29 20:09
MinceR	schestowitz pasted an ascii art of pedobear	Nov 29 20:10
twitter	Oh, I only got half of it. Does not sound like Roy.	Nov 29 20:10
macabe	What’s a pedobear?	Nov 29 20:11
twitter	it’s a bad joke about child molestation.	Nov 29 20:11
MinceR	http://www.encyclopediadramat…	Nov 29 20:12
MinceR	(probably nsfw)	Nov 29 20:13
twitter	It’s filthy enough that the wikipedia has no entry.	Nov 29 20:13
MinceR	nah, wp guys would say it has no “notability”	Nov 29 20:14
MinceR	never mind that they don’t really have a page limit	Nov 29 20:14
schestowitz	It was in Digg	Nov 29 20:14
_doug	But Wikipedia does have an entey on that long time nutter who MI5 and BBC newsreaders spy on ..	Nov 29 20:14
_doug	Most probably written by the screwy one himself ..	Nov 29 20:15
*schestowitz didn’t even know the story behind it until MinceR mentioned it		Nov 29 20:15
MinceR		Nov 29 20:15
schestowitz	I’m out in a moment.	Nov 29 20:15
schestowitz	Drinking all night.	Nov 29 20:15
twitter	Really?	Nov 29 20:16
twitter	be careful	Nov 29 20:16
schestowitz	I need to ‘sober up’ from that BN thing.	Nov 29 20:16
schestowitz	twitter: careful, why?	Nov 29 20:16
schestowitz	Outside the capus it’s dangerous for sure.	Nov 29 20:16
twitter	so you don’t fall down and break your crown.	Nov 29 20:16
schestowitz	That’s why RMS is in MIT	Nov 29 20:16
schestowitz	No crown	Nov 29 20:17
schestowitz	No purse, either.	Nov 29 20:17
twitter	So, who’s baggy pantsed Roy here?	Nov 29 20:17
schestowitz	Huh? :-S	Nov 29 20:18
twitter	pedobear, boozing, that does not sound like Roy	Nov 29 20:18
schestowitz	What??	Nov 29 20:18
schestowitz	No, I was replying to _doug	Nov 29 20:18
twitter	(02:22:36 PM) schestowitz: I need to ‘sober up’ from that BN thing.	Nov 29 20:19
_doug	I don’t get the reference either, I just mentioned Ascii art ..	Nov 29 20:19
schestowitz	twitter: joke	Nov 29 20:20
schestowitz	It’s a friend’s birthday today	Nov 29 20:20
schestowitz	We’ll maybe pull some birds	Nov 29 20:20
schestowitz	’twas in a page with ASCII art example	Nov 29 20:21
schestowitz	*examples	Nov 29 20:21
schestowitz	MinceR knew what it was. I didn’t	Nov 29 20:21
schestowitz	Gotta go now. Laters	Nov 29 20:22
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_doug	iPlayer is still freezing ..	Nov 29 20:31
_doug	Is this what I’m not paying the license fee for ?	Nov 29 20:31
_doug	“This content doesn’t appear to be working. Try again later”	Nov 29 20:37
_doug	Never mind .. lets see what’s on Youtube ..	Nov 29 20:41
_doug	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ayACsykYOQ0&…	Nov 29 20:41
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 29 22:49:50 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovell		Nov 29 22:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged]		Nov 29 22:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008		Nov 29 22:49
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel		Nov 29 22:49
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz		Nov 29 22:49
GoblinRFD	Hi Roy!	Nov 29 22:54
kevin__	hi	Nov 29 22:56
GoblinRFD	hi! Sorry I was distracted	Nov 29 23:08
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