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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 30th, 2009 - Part 1



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oiaohmmotterola would do better off as a netbook maker.Mar 30 00:00
schestowitzHigh end Nokia phone will run LinuxMar 30 00:00
schestowitzFor the most partMar 30 00:00
schestowitzI think Reuters said soMar 30 00:00
schestowitzMotorola- > AndroidMar 30 00:00
schestowitzThey sacked manyMar 30 00:00
schestowitzWM neglected as of lateMar 30 00:00
schestowitzSo it's Google'sMar 30 00:00
oiaohmMotorola is under a lot of presure.Mar 30 00:01
oiaohmSo them entering the netbook market with a arm based netbook has to be on the cards.Mar 30 00:01
Balrog_Android is better than Motorola currentlyMar 30 00:02
Balrog_iPhone has the edge thoughMar 30 00:02
oiaohmBasically we are heading for a device maker vs computer maker war.Mar 30 00:02
oiaohmWith the shortness of money expect it to be last company standing.Mar 30 00:03
Balrog_you have Apple vs. Android-based vs. Motorola vs. WindowsMar 30 00:03
Balrog_though I think Apple and Android can coexist wellMar 30 00:03
Balrog_(and don't forget the Pre)Mar 30 00:03
Balrog_but why so many different platforms?Mar 30 00:03
oiaohmThat is the point.Mar 30 00:03
oiaohmThere is very few valid reasons for so many different platforms.Mar 30 00:04
Balrog_I mean, Pre and Android can probably get combined into oneMar 30 00:04
Balrog_or Pre can build off AndroidMar 30 00:04
Balrog_roughlydrafted is finally loadingMar 30 00:07
oiaohmpalm is also going LinuxMar 30 00:07
Balrog_slow thoughMar 30 00:07
Balrog_http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/03/...Mar 30 00:07
oiaohmCore of most of the phones is turning into 1 thing.Mar 30 00:08
Balrog_yeah but why two different codbases?Mar 30 00:08
Balrog_android and preMar 30 00:08
Balrog_webos *Mar 30 00:08
oiaohmUpper level code base difference.sMar 30 00:08
Balrog_yeah, but why not make it so they can be merged into one....Mar 30 00:09
oiaohmhttp://www.limofoundation.org/  of course don't forget limoMar 30 00:09
Balrog_probably upper level of webos will be closed-source though :/Mar 30 00:09
Balrog_hehMar 30 00:09
Balrog_http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/03/28/...Mar 30 00:09
oiaohmThere are many teams working on the problem.Mar 30 00:09
Balrog_I hope soMar 30 00:10
schestowitzhttp://www.dwasifar.com/?p=508 ""Microsoft used Silverlight instead of Flash to deploy this ad on the web.  There’s no Silverlight plugin for Firefox on Linux.  The open source Moonlight plugin is not available for 64-bit unless you’re running SUSE.  Therefore I can’t watch the ad."Mar 30 00:10
Balrog_and you can't compile it?Mar 30 00:10
Balrog_well it's on youtube.Mar 30 00:11
schestowitzyesMar 30 00:11
schestowitz"Way to go, Microsoft.  Put out an ad to convince people to buy your products, and lock out Linux users - arguably the people you’d most like to persuade."Mar 30 00:12
schestowitzMost MS sites use FlashMar 30 00:12
oiaohmhttp://www.khronos.org/openkode/ << is another team working on the problem if split Balrog_Mar 30 00:12
schestowitzhttp://zombieturtle.co.uk/2009/03/gen... "I’ve spent the last couple of days installing Gentoo on my eee. At the moment I’m roughly 36 hours in to the installing process and there’s still a couple of big builds left (Firefox and Thunderbird). "Mar 30 00:12
schestowitz^masochismMar 30 00:12
Balrog_schestowitz: that ad doesn't say anything about linuxMar 30 00:12
schestowitzExactlyMar 30 00:13
oiaohmkhronos working with mozilla they are upto something.Mar 30 00:13
schestowitzMicrosoft's #1 enemyMar 30 00:13
Balrog_it can't target linux users as they pay less to begin withMar 30 00:13
schestowitzThey pretend they can ignore it... same with AppleMar 30 00:13
schestowitzThey oversimplify it for consumerMar 30 00:13
schestowitzMicrosoft=cheapMar 30 00:13
schestowitzThe other=expensiveMar 30 00:13
schestowitzThey don;'t say the L wordMar 30 00:13
Balrog_can you consider apple a #2 enemy?Mar 30 00:13
oiaohmMicrsoft enemy is themselfs.Mar 30 00:13
Balrog_(to MS)Mar 30 00:13
schestowitzBalrog: yes, maybeMar 30 00:13
schestowitzMS also fears IBMMar 30 00:14
schestowitzBillG fears IBMMar 30 00:14
oiaohmIts not anyone else that is going to destroy them.Mar 30 00:14
schestowitzIBM uses LinuxMar 30 00:14
schestowitzSame with GoogleMar 30 00:14
_Hicham_well, DELL computers shipped with Ubuntu weren't cheaper than those with VistaMar 30 00:14
schestowitzLinux is 'breaking point'Mar 30 00:14
oiaohmIBM has many reason to want to kill Microsoft.Mar 30 00:14
schestowitzGPL holds Linux togetherMar 30 00:14
schestowitzEnsuring no single company can be crushed with itMar 30 00:14
schestowitzOr boughtMar 30 00:14
oiaohmVista was cheeper due to installed ad ware.Mar 30 00:14
oiaohmNow if dell starts installing that on ubuntu.Mar 30 00:14
schestowitz_Hicham_: Dell pays MS for patents, we thinkMar 30 00:15
oiaohmWe in theory could see a machine where they pay you to take it.Mar 30 00:15
schestowitzIBM hatres MSMar 30 00:15
schestowitzI speak to their guys sometimes, nothing formalMar 30 00:15
schestowitzSome are fed up with the MSNovell part of Novell tooMar 30 00:15
schestowitzLike de IcazaMar 30 00:15
oiaohmIBM and SUN merging is bad news of MS.Mar 30 00:15
_Hicham_De Icaza denies formally have participatedMar 30 00:15
Balrog_this ogg encode is killing my system :XMar 30 00:15
schestowitzIBM wants to own Red Hat and NovellMar 30 00:15
oiaohmBoth hate MS completely.Mar 30 00:15
schestowitzBut Microsoft 'buys'  Novell's ballsMar 30 00:16
Balrog_and SunMar 30 00:16
oiaohmI wish I had the transcript of one of Sun board meetings.Mar 30 00:16
schestowitzSun wantred to sellMar 30 00:16
schestowitzNo idea to whom..Mar 30 00:16
oiaohmInvester meetings.Mar 30 00:16
schestowitzSo it's not as though IBM wants to buyMar 30 00:16
schestowitzThere are IP issues nowMar 30 00:16
Balrog_they're trying to sell to IBMMar 30 00:16
schestowitzI think SUN wants to sell itselfMar 30 00:16
oiaohmWhere they said they would exist until MS was for sure dead.Mar 30 00:17
schestowitzNot IBM wanting SUN..Mar 30 00:17
schestowitzIBm just sacked 5k employeesMar 30 00:17
schestowitzNot a good time for shopping spreeMar 30 00:17
schestowitzwityh too much overlapMar 30 00:17
_Hicham_Sun doesn't make a good Java VM for LinuxMar 30 00:17
schestowitzSPARC, Solaris....Mar 30 00:17
_Hicham_and they do it on purposeMar 30 00:17
schestowitzyesMar 30 00:17
_Hicham_to sell their SolarisMar 30 00:17
schestowitzStupid of themMar 30 00:17
_Hicham_I prefer the gcj wayMar 30 00:18
schestowitzBut the 'medicine'Mar 30 00:18
schestowitzLike lawyers doMar 30 00:18
Balrog_what about IcedTea?Mar 30 00:18
schestowitzObsoleteMar 30 00:18
schestowitzSoon anyway.Mar 30 00:18
Balrog_and what are the main problems with CDDL, other than GPL incompatibility?Mar 30 00:18
_Hicham_IcedTea still lacks some classesMar 30 00:18
oiaohmCDDL does not give patent protection.Mar 30 00:18
schestowitzYesMar 30 00:19
schestowitzPatentsMar 30 00:19
schestowitzThat's what kernel hackers saidMar 30 00:19
schestowitzpatents and other issuesMar 30 00:19
schestowitzZFS = scale issueMar 30 00:19
Balrog_I also hear it's not a strong copyleftMar 30 00:19
Balrog_ZFS still needs workMar 30 00:19
oiaohmSun really was secrewed with solaris.Mar 30 00:19
oiaohmNot enough market to fund maintaining it.Mar 30 00:19
schestowitzLike MPLMar 30 00:19
oiaohmSo they open sourced it and used a locking licence.Mar 30 00:19
Balrog_MPL is almost equal to CDDLMar 30 00:20
schestowitzSo I hearMar 30 00:20
schestowitzIANALMar 30 00:20
oiaohmMPL was a form of locking licence as well.Mar 30 00:20
Balrog_but it's about word-for-wordMar 30 00:20
Balrog_just with different namesMar 30 00:20
schestowitzWhat is Btrfs? < http://linuxpoison.blogspot.com/2... >Mar 30 00:20
schestowitzBye, ZFSMar 30 00:20
Balrog_hrm, APSL is a locking license....Mar 30 00:20
schestowitzGo find a resting place in the belly os OS XMar 30 00:20
schestowitzConfigure a Linux Firewall with Webmin < http://www.ghacks.net/2009/03/27/c... >Mar 30 00:21
Balrog_though FSF says it's free sofwareMar 30 00:21
oiaohmbtrfs is orcale scratching a itch.Mar 30 00:21
oiaohmNow when the leading database maker in the world is scratching a itch they do a good job.Mar 30 00:21
schestowitzNice FS charts: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/0...Mar 30 00:22
oiaohmorcale is not even finshed with what they want btrfs to be.Mar 30 00:22
oiaohmIt will be a back end for a cluster filesystem.Mar 30 00:22
Balrog_yeah, I knowMar 30 00:22
Balrog_ZFS is more mature right now thoughMar 30 00:24
schestowitzWell, obviouslyMar 30 00:26
oiaohmReiserFS (Reiserfsck makes the boot chart look like an EKG…..We’re losing him! CLEAR!!!)  I like that lineMar 30 00:27
oiaohmYou have to remember orcale concidered porting ZFS before creating btrfsMar 30 00:28
oiaohmThey found something they did not like about ZFS other than licence.Mar 30 00:28
Balrog_hm.Mar 30 00:28
Balrog_any info about that?Mar 30 00:28
oiaohmtry making a boot loader understand ZFSMar 30 00:30
Balrog_ah. So that's why few systems boot from ZFS yet...?Mar 30 00:30
oiaohmYepMar 30 00:30
oiaohmIts a very complex format to read.Mar 30 00:30
oiaohmSo this does effect read performance.Mar 30 00:31
oiaohmthinking that 90 percent of operations a filesystem are reading its not a good thing.Mar 30 00:31
oiaohmGood idea sun.  But you over did the disk struct complexity.Mar 30 00:32
oiaohmbtrfs one of the key things was simplerfying the disk struct as much as able.Mar 30 00:34
oiaohmbtrfs even includes a plan be for supporting boot loadersMar 30 00:35
Balrog_zfs has a lot of features that people likeMar 30 00:35
oiaohmext3/4 with a btrfs inside.Mar 30 00:35
oiaohmDatabase maker all the features in the world is not important if it is slow.Mar 30 00:36
Balrog_yeah, right now zfs is too slowMar 30 00:36
Balrog_you have a page with an ogg?Mar 30 00:41
_Hicham_balrog_ : olpc.dailymotion.comMar 30 00:45
Balrog_schestowitz: are you using <video> tags properly?Mar 30 00:46
schestowitzI think so, why?Mar 30 00:48
Balrog_some players mess upMar 30 00:48
Balrog_only with yoursMar 30 00:48
oiaohmzfs gains it speed by adding drives.Mar 30 00:50
Balrog_it seems like it may be your controls=""Mar 30 00:51
oiaohmSun designers focused on raid to give speed.Mar 30 00:51
Balrog_<< schestowitzMar 30 00:51
Balrog_got it?Mar 30 00:52
Balrog_what is the desired effect of controls=Mar 30 00:52
Balrog_"" ?Mar 30 00:52
Balrog_by the way, Safari works with <video> tags but you need an ogg extension to quicktimeMar 30 00:54
Balrog_(for ogg/theora playback)Mar 30 00:54
schestowitzBalrog: I think it's all rightMar 30 00:54
schestowitzSomeone told me to add itMar 30 00:54
schestowitzIt puts controls in the playerMar 30 00:54
Balrog_I see. The #theora people say it's a bug in the decoderMar 30 00:54
Balrog_one site has controls="controls"Mar 30 00:54
schestowitzHmmm.. not where I checkedMar 30 00:55
Balrog_yeah, it looks like the oggs are a little messed upMar 30 00:55
schestowitzMaybe they haven't decided yetMar 30 00:55
schestowitzHTML5 is recommendation, not a standardMar 30 00:55
Balrog_yes, I know...Mar 30 00:55
oiaohmWill be a standard.Mar 30 00:55
oiaohmWhen they get the final bits sorted out.Mar 30 00:55
Balrog_I hope they keep ogg vorbis and theora...unless somehow they can royalty-free h.264 and mpeg4Mar 30 00:56
Balrog_:)Mar 30 00:56
oiaohmStill working around defects is really not the way forward.Mar 30 00:56
oiaohmGetting defects fixed is.Mar 30 00:56
Balrog_yeah. I don't think the controls tags make much differenceMar 30 00:56
_Hicham_oiaohm is a radical personMar 30 01:13
_Hicham_oiaohm is the leader of the radical party in Computer ScienceMar 30 01:13
schestowitzLike Pinky and the BrainMar 30 01:15
_Hicham_"We will take over the World"Mar 30 01:16
_Hicham_will u take over the world Roy?Mar 30 01:16
schestowitzNo, weird questions to ask. Embarrassing stuff...Mar 30 01:17
schestowitzDid you know Gates said something like that?Mar 30 01:18
schestowitzIn the 90s... "talking over the world"... in a computer magazineMar 30 01:18
_Hicham_why not?Mar 30 01:18
_Hicham_u would be a better kingMar 30 01:19
_Hicham_no?Mar 30 01:19
schestowitzKings=tyrannyMar 30 01:19
schestowitzWe need democracyMar 30 01:19
schestowitzSo that citizens vote on stuff like warMar 30 01:20
schestowitzNot two people leading a party whose elected majority is 51%Mar 30 01:20
schestowitzIn the US, it's "winner takes all" and leader takes all thereinMar 30 01:20
schestowitzSo you have tyrants... like STALINMar 30 01:20
*tessier has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Mar 30 01:21
schestowitzChurchill liked Stalin.... when he fought Hitler... only later they got a little scared and the "Animal Farm" propaganda began, then the Cold War.Mar 30 01:21
oiaohmI am not exactly radical.Mar 30 01:22
oiaohmI have just seen too much of computer history.Mar 30 01:22
oiaohmAfter awhile everything just seams like repeats with different names.Mar 30 01:22
_Hicham_oiaohm : that is scienceMar 30 01:23
oiaohmNot exactly its history.Mar 30 01:23
_Hicham_we do not have a complete good conception from the startMar 30 01:23
schestowitzTechnical historyMar 30 01:23
schestowitzNot eventsMar 30 01:23
schestowitzHistory = eventsMar 30 01:23
schestowitzKnowing maths != remembering eventsMar 30 01:24
schestowitzBut mastering methodsMar 30 01:24
_Hicham_by the way Roy is a super mathematicianMar 30 01:24
oiaohmUnix version war,  Linux distribution infighting.Mar 30 01:24
_Hicham_did u see the documentary on Fermat's Last Theorem?Mar 30 01:24
oiaohmnothering has really changed there.Mar 30 01:25
oiaohmin over 30 years.Mar 30 01:25
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oiaohmJust the name changed.Mar 30 01:25
_Hicham_and codeMar 30 01:25
oiaohmIts like wars they are all started in the same kinds of ways.Mar 30 01:25
oiaohmWeapons used changed but that is it.Mar 30 01:26
_Hicham_but the problem with software is that there wasn't a lot of code reuseMar 30 01:26
_Hicham_unlike hardwareMar 30 01:26
oiaohmIn 20 years time Linux might be top and a new competitor trying to destory it.Mar 30 01:26
oiaohmThis is the way of the world.Mar 30 01:27
oiaohmLook at all the maps going back through history who owns land has changed.Mar 30 01:27
_Hicham_Maybe it will be one of Roy's sonsMar 30 01:27
oiaohmYou do know that the name Unix is a joke.Mar 30 01:28
oiaohmMake after the OS it was competing with.Mar 30 01:28
_Hicham_yesMar 30 01:28
_Hicham_as opposed to MulticsMar 30 01:28
oiaohmHistory is repeating.Mar 30 01:28
oiaohmOver and over again.Mar 30 01:29
_Hicham_that is free softwareMar 30 01:29
oiaohmLinux is not the name Linus want to give Linux.Mar 30 01:29
_Hicham_it is somewhat childishMar 30 01:29
oiaohmAll software is.Mar 30 01:29
oiaohmMS repeats same mistakes over and over again.Mar 30 01:29
oiaohmNo one is learning from history.Mar 30 01:29
oiaohmComputer courses don't bother teaching it because they are future looking.Mar 30 01:30
schestowitz_Hicham_: I'm not a methematicianMar 30 01:30
_Hicham_Roy : u contributed a lot to Matlab, no?Mar 30 01:30
schestowitzI do basic mathematics but sometime use my colleaguesMar 30 01:30
oiaohmKnowledge of history makes me way different.Mar 30 01:30
schestowitzNot a lot.Mar 30 01:30
oiaohmSame with schestowitz knowledge of history effects him.Mar 30 01:31
schestowitzFor hard maths I consult people whose field it isMar 30 01:31
_Hicham_oiaohm : u r very differentMar 30 01:31
_Hicham_Roy : so can u come with an algo to destroy MS?Mar 30 01:31
schestowitzNo needMar 30 01:31
schestowitzMicrosoft is obsoleteMar 30 01:32
schestowitzit can't adaptMar 30 01:32
schestowitzHardware gets cheapMar 30 01:32
schestowitzAnd its softare sucksMar 30 01:32
schestowitzApple is not neededMar 30 01:32
oiaohmHistory tells me and schestowitz what will destory MS.Mar 30 01:32
schestowitzB/c IBM, HP et al want to sell hardware with complimentary OSMar 30 01:32
oiaohmLook at the software companies that have died.Mar 30 01:32
schestowitzWhich they do by funding Linux and helping around with other parts (mostly Red Hat, Novell too and now Canonical)Mar 30 01:32
oiaohmMS is repeating lots of there mistakes.Mar 30 01:32
_Hicham_what if MS became a hardware one?Mar 30 01:33
schestowitz*And Mandriva and so on... hard to miss some credits.Mar 30 01:33
oiaohmwhere is amigaMar 30 01:33
schestowitz_Hicham_: it triedMar 30 01:33
schestowitzXBox, Zune...Mar 30 01:33
schestowitzColossal failureMar 30 01:33
oiaohmBecoming hardware does not save you if you cannot operate cheep enough.Mar 30 01:33
schestowitzThey lost billionsMar 30 01:33
schestowitzThere are many hardware companiesMar 30 01:33
_Hicham_since march 2008Mar 30 01:33
schestowitzBuilding a monopoly like Intel's is hardMar 30 01:33
schestowitzAnd intel moves away from MS too right now.Mar 30 01:34
oiaohmMS is still losing billions in there hardware departments _Hicham_Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzMoblin and other stuff...Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzDo or die...Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzARM+Linux...Mar 30 01:34
schestowitz$150Mar 30 01:34
_Hicham_Intel is a real giantMar 30 01:34
oiaohmARM developments are very much in alignment with Linux.Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzCriminal giantMar 30 01:34
oiaohmNo single company makes ARM chips.Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzMy bro-in-law works there.Mar 30 01:34
schestowitzBut it's the management where the criminals liveMar 30 01:35
oiaohmNo single company improves ARM design.Mar 30 01:35
schestowitzSchemeing who to bribe and howMar 30 01:35
schestowitzTo please 'shareholders'Mar 30 01:35
oiaohmWintel agreements got intel where it is today.Mar 30 01:35
_Hicham_Intel will seek a new strategic allyMar 30 01:36
oiaohmJust like the Apple Moterola(what I can never spell)  got it to where moterola is today as 1 of the top phone makers.Mar 30 01:36
oiaohmIntel really does not need MS.Mar 30 01:36
oiaohmMS needs Intel.Mar 30 01:36
oiaohmThat is MS problem they got stupid everyone needs me.Mar 30 01:37
oiaohmWho does that remind you of in recent computer history.Mar 30 01:37
oiaohmApple of 1993Mar 30 01:37
oiaohmPride comes before a huge mother of a fall it always has.Mar 30 01:37
oiaohmIntel already has a new ally Linux.Mar 30 01:38
oiaohmAre you starting to see where my difference comes from _Hicham_Mar 30 01:39
oiaohmI missed out sun microsystems of 1995 on super computers saying that Linux would have no market share there so Linux was not a threat to them.Mar 30 01:39
schestowitzIntel's profit sank 90%Mar 30 01:40
oiaohmMS made the same statement about Linux in 2004.Mar 30 01:40
schestowitz(in last quarter's report)Mar 30 01:40
schestowitzVista couldn't have helpedMar 30 01:40
oiaohmThat MS fans rally around.Mar 30 01:40
oiaohmSun and Apple fans ralled around the same things.Mar 30 01:41
oiaohmHistory repeating.Mar 30 01:41
oiaohmCompany names changed actions not changed.Mar 30 01:41
oiaohmBoth Sun and Apple over charged for there OS.Mar 30 01:41
oiaohmBoth paid the price.Mar 30 01:41
schestowitzIBM->MS->Google graph?Mar 30 01:41
schestowitzRise and falls..Mar 30 01:42
twittersome good news from the US, http://slashdot.org/firehose...Mar 30 01:42
oiaohmRise and falls aways happen due to the same reasons.Mar 30 01:42
twitterThe 15 year old US obsession with IP may be over.Mar 30 01:43
twitterPut it in the Iraq war and war against terror ash heap.Mar 30 01:43
twitterI found that link on Groklaw a few minutes ago but could find no further stories.Mar 30 01:44
oiaohmYou can list the war on terror through history.Mar 30 01:45
*schestowitz will respost this tomorrowMar 30 01:45
twittercoolMar 30 01:45
oiaohmMost are the same thing Christians vs Mulsim .Mar 30 01:45
oiaohmBasically we are not willing to get along.Mar 30 01:45
_Hicham_oiaohm : who said that Christians do not want to get along with Muslims?Mar 30 01:47
_Hicham_that is absolutely falseMar 30 01:47
oiaohmLeaders of the Christians and Leaders of the Muslims don't end up getting along.Mar 30 01:48
_Hicham_u r talking about the Leaders thenMar 30 01:48
oiaohmBecause to them what seams wrong to 1 seams right the other.Mar 30 01:48
_Hicham_I agree on that thenMar 30 01:48
twitternot very good leaders eitherMar 30 01:48
_Hicham_but just the LeadersMar 30 01:49
oiaohmAnd the people follow.Mar 30 01:49
twitterno, just a few idiotsMar 30 01:49
_Hicham_because the nations want peaceMar 30 01:49
_Hicham_plain peaceMar 30 01:49
oiaohmBasic beliefs being different fuel the repeating problem _Hicham_Mar 30 01:49
_Hicham_oiaohm : people don't followMar 30 01:49
_Hicham_oiaohm : basic beliefs are the sameMar 30 01:49
_Hicham_oiaohm : what beliefs are differents?Mar 30 01:50
oiaohmBasic beliefs in how people should be treated.Mar 30 01:50
oiaohmActions to each other.Mar 30 01:50
_Hicham_and how people should be treated according to Christianity?Mar 30 01:51
oiaohmNot exactly.  Its not in the text.   There is a form of culture traveling along with the religions.Mar 30 01:52
oiaohmLike the basic text of muslims don't cover that a women hav to be covered from head to toe.Mar 30 01:52
oiaohmOr that spitting on people is ok.Mar 30 01:52
oiaohmThere is a basic beliefs and sub culture attached to both groups.Mar 30 01:53
oiaohmThat will keep on causing disputes until its addressed.Mar 30 01:53
_Hicham_the woman should be well covered in IslamMar 30 01:53
_Hicham_and it is not okay to spitMar 30 01:53
oiaohmBy text yes.Mar 30 01:53
oiaohmBy subculture traveling along with it.Mar 30 01:54
schestowitzMythsMar 30 01:54
schestowitzAbout spittingMar 30 01:54
_Hicham_and what matters more than text?Mar 30 01:54
schestowitzOr cutting of armsMar 30 01:54
schestowitzShit like Alla din teaches lies.Mar 30 01:54
schestowitz*AladdinMar 30 01:54
_Hicham_the cutting of Arms haven't been practicedMar 30 01:54
schestowitzI knowMar 30 01:54
schestowitzOnly after many repeated offenses in very devour placesMar 30 01:55
schestowitzBut ask Americans on the street about itMar 30 01:55
_Hicham_i already showed u the video about americans RoyMar 30 01:55
*schestowitz hates FOXMar 30 01:55
_Hicham_and Loves FirefoxMar 30 01:55
schestowitzIt reminds of that Schwarzenegger filmMar 30 01:55
schestowitzWhere he's on that 'reality' showMar 30 01:55
schestowitzWhere they abuse the contestants for ratingsMar 30 01:56
schestowitzAnd get sent down tunnels at high speedsMar 30 01:56
oiaohmThings that don't do muslims good are where like people say just because a women did not cover them selfs up they had the right to rape.  In the text no that is not allowed ever.Mar 30 01:56
schestowitzI was a kid when I watched it... scared meMar 30 01:56
oiaohmThe text gets abused.Mar 30 01:56
_Hicham_rape is not permittedMar 30 01:57
_Hicham_oiaohm : u are melting traditions with religionMar 30 01:57
oiaohmtraditions are the basic believes I am talking about.Mar 30 01:57
oiaohmLot of those traditions travel with religions groups in the background.Mar 30 01:57
_Hicham_oiaohm : traditions are not sacredMar 30 01:58
_Hicham_they can changeMar 30 01:58
_Hicham_but the text notMar 30 01:58
oiaohmThat is the point.Mar 30 01:58
oiaohmthe traditions cause the griding between the two groups.Mar 30 01:58
_Hicham_the Quran is sameMar 30 01:58
_Hicham_since the ProphetMar 30 01:58
oiaohmyet people are not seeing the importance to address them.Mar 30 01:58
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-253-143-103.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 30 01:59
yuhongBTW, what do you think went wrong with MS?Mar 30 01:59
_Hicham_there are no traditions really remaining with globalizationMar 30 01:59
yuhongThat makes it so evil now?Mar 30 01:59
oiaohmTime globalization will sort the mess out _Hicham_ .Mar 30 02:00
oiaohmBut until then _Hicham_ more wars to be expected.Mar 30 02:00
_Hicham_but not based on traditionsMar 30 02:00
_Hicham_on oilMar 30 02:00
_Hicham_oil is the cause for the next warMar 30 02:01
oiaohmyuhong: microsoft went wrong so many ways it not funny.Mar 30 02:01
yuhongI heard it is the business tactics that made it so evil.Mar 30 02:01
oiaohmI could spend years on every place they stuffed up yuhong.  Most important ones is forgetting there customers.Mar 30 02:02
_Hicham_yuhong : boycottnovell.com is full of their crimesMar 30 02:02
yuhongYep, I knowMar 30 02:02
oiaohmMedia companies wanted drm is MS inculded it.  Is DRM good for the long term of there OS buyers no.Mar 30 02:02
oiaohmWho pays MS money.  The person who buys there product not the media companies.Mar 30 02:03
oiaohmMS basically lost sight of who was important.Mar 30 02:03
yuhongI heard it is the business tactics that made it so evil.Mar 30 02:03
oiaohmAnd just focused on extracting the most money.Mar 30 02:03
oiaohmYes if you are focused on making the most money you go after nuking everyone else in your path yuhongMar 30 02:04
oiaohmNo matter how illegal it is.  MS had done many illegal things to get where they are now.Mar 30 02:04
yuhongI know.Mar 30 02:05
yuhongSomeone said MS is corrupt, what do they mean by this?Mar 30 02:05
_Hicham_oiaohm : can I compile firefox with Portland's Group Compiler?Mar 30 02:05
oiaohmInfected by greed and forgeting who is important.Mar 30 02:05
oiaohm_Hicham_: can be done.  Takes ages.Mar 30 02:06
oiaohmcorrupt in the sence they bribe people and do what ever to get what they want.Mar 30 02:06
_Hicham_oiaohm : and how would be the result?Mar 30 02:06
oiaohm_Hicham_: faster than gcc built.Mar 30 02:07
oiaohm_Hicham_: About the same as llvm built.Mar 30 02:07
oiaohmyuhong: you basically cannot do illegal things and expect not to be called corrupt or evil.Mar 30 02:08
yuhongOf course not.Mar 30 02:08
oiaohmProblem here is Novell is not past doing the same things.Mar 30 02:09
oiaohmyet they play to be a white night.Mar 30 02:09
yuhongBTW, I am not really expecting MS's business practices to change until Ballmer retires from MS.Mar 30 02:10
oiaohmThat might be soon.Mar 30 02:10
oiaohmShare holders are trying to get rid of BallmerMar 30 02:10
yuhongThen we will see.Mar 30 02:10
oiaohmMS is basically a dieing company.Mar 30 02:11
oiaohmLike the Unix companies of old.Mar 30 02:11
yuhongI would not go that far.Mar 30 02:11
oiaohmI would.Mar 30 02:11
oiaohmMajor overheads.Mar 30 02:11
yuhongI don't think Windows will die.Mar 30 02:11
oiaohmCheaper competitorsMar 30 02:11
oiaohmSame things that in the end killed off most of the Unix's MS is facing.Mar 30 02:12
yuhongBut I would not critisize Linux either.Mar 30 02:12
oiaohmLinux is only recently focusing on improving there desktop side.Mar 30 02:12
yuhongOn the matter of Unix, compare how Sun Microsystems responded to open source with how MS did it.Mar 30 02:12
oiaohmSun is basically dead.Mar 30 02:13
oiaohmthey are selling themselves to IBM.Mar 30 02:13
yuhongI know.Mar 30 02:13
oiaohmSun tried to live through the wall of open source.Mar 30 02:13
oiaohmthat is what MS is facing.Mar 30 02:14
yuhongAnd my point is, which one is better?Mar 30 02:14
oiaohmLinux has the super computer market under control.    For Linux companies to keep on expanding profits they have to take out other markets.Mar 30 02:14
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.67.224) has left #boycottnovellMar 30 02:15
oiaohmBit like MS 6 years ago.Mar 30 02:15
oiaohmThe question is what markets are those companies going to take first.Mar 30 02:15
oiaohmSun slowed Linux from leaving the super computer market because it took so long to get up good enough to take over the market.Mar 30 02:16
oiaohmYep Linux well funded and looking for new markets.Mar 30 02:16
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.67.224) has joined #boycottnovellMar 30 02:16
oiaohmNetbooks ok that has not 100 percent worked but its reduced MS income.Mar 30 02:17
_Hicham_good night everybodyMar 30 02:17
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Mar 30 02:17
yuhongI think the key general question is, how does the monopoly respond to competitors?Mar 30 02:18
oiaohmMS did not have to face the wall while major Linux companies had no interest in desktop interface.Mar 30 02:18
oiaohmBy trying to undercut, legal enforcement and outlast yuhongMar 30 02:19
oiaohmLinux has a basic monopoly in supercomputers.Mar 30 02:19
oiaohmIt got it by being better and cloning other sides features.Mar 30 02:19
oiaohmWe have two groups with monopolies going head to head with each other.Mar 30 02:20
yuhongCompare with Google.Mar 30 02:20
oiaohmSo far none of MS attacks on Linux monopoly has even caused a scratch.Mar 30 02:20
oiaohmGoogle is a major Linux supporter.Mar 30 02:20
*yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.8/2009032609]")Mar 30 02:20
oiaohmThey are one of the Linux companies looking for new markets to make profits in.Mar 30 02:20
schestowitzWhao. This is strange... like dual-voice.. http://www.youtube.com/w...Mar 30 02:35
schestowitzKing Juan Carlos to Chavez: "Why don't you shut up!?" < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A... >Mar 30 02:42
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWkZOU... Good one..Mar 30 02:48
oiaohmNot a dual-voice one hell of a range.Mar 30 02:50
oiaohmUse the top and bottom of range.Mar 30 02:50
oiaohmI did voice training at one point.  Songs like that are used to push changing between ranges quickly.  Very hard to do and I don't have that much range.Mar 30 02:51
schestowitzYes, I thought it was fake at firstMar 30 02:52
schestowitzLOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...Mar 30 02:53
oiaohmOne of the give aways is how fast breath is being consumed.Mar 30 02:53
oiaohmAt the top and bottom of you range your breath don't last long.Mar 30 02:53
schestowitzNo idea why the automated recommendation engine recommended this songMar 30 03:00
schestowitzIt's actually interesting to see what matches a user through automation. I was watching a documentary about Aladdin some while agoMar 30 03:01
schestowitzIt's fascinating how packed with poison cartoons can beMar 30 03:01
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oiaohmExactly schestowitz cartoons contain lot of the base of our preduduces.  Because they are base on the base of the culture.Mar 30 03:21
schestowitzInnocence makes confidenceMar 30 03:21
schestowitzIt's for kids, so it can't be propaganda, can it? :-)Mar 30 03:22
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oiaohmThese are the issues in base culture I am talking about.Mar 30 03:27
oiaohmIts not relegiion is everything in the cultrure around the relegion causes massive problems.Mar 30 03:28
oiaohmIt appears in reporting any everything.Mar 30 03:28
oiaohmIts not propaganda as such.   Its worse.  Its hidden in the general beliefs of the people.Mar 30 03:29
schestowitzgnMar 30 03:29
oiaohmSame kinds of general beliefs have even formed up in business.Mar 30 03:30
oiaohmLike free cannot be good.Mar 30 03:30
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amd-linuxRoy, comment function does not work - keeps insisting that 2+11 is NOT 13....Mar 30 05:44
amd-linuxwanted to add this to your daily links section: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Open_...Mar 30 05:44
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tessierJust like you and your fellow Microsofties, I talked to a lot of people who where either affected by the 1,400 cut or who had a friend affected. From just my perspective, everyone I know or know-of through someone in Redmond was... rehired.Mar 30 05:59
tessier- mini-microsoftMar 30 05:59
tessierbMar 30 06:04
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MinceRr4wrMar 30 07:51
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schestowitzHeyMar 30 08:42
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schestowitzI've just removed the maths riddle in the comment. Let's see the effect on SPAM. It ought to have worked for <amd-linux>.Mar 30 08:58
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watc...Mar 30 09:08
schestowitz..Mar 30 10:10
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*anivar (i=75c06209@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-54b026a4bdc115e8) has joined #boycottnovellMar 30 12:02
schestowitzHey, anivar Mar 30 12:05
schestowitzWhat's up?Mar 30 12:05
anivarschestowitz:  come on private chatMar 30 12:06
anivarjagit from sun mailed that ODF allainace will award only an individualMar 30 12:07
schestowitzLet me see......Mar 30 12:08
anivarBut ODF Alliance Press release says excited abt gigi's poem in patha bhedamMar 30 12:08
schestowitzThanks.Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzI got the mails and messagesMar 30 12:08
anivarsoory cut and paste errorMar 30 12:08
schestowitzI'll post an update when it's finalisedMar 30 12:08
anivar ODF Alliance awards recognize the contribution of individuals or entities who have significantly advanced document freedomMar 30 12:08
schestowitzAs in, if the award is passed to someone elseMar 30 12:09
anivarhttp://www.odfalliance.org/blog/index...Mar 30 12:09
schestowitz:-)Mar 30 12:09
anivari already fwed the threadMar 30 12:09
schestowitz"2 things are getting ready. One is A letter detailing the time line of it@school project &  asking ODF Alliance to take back the award to anvar and give it to IT@school & SCERT instead"Mar 30 12:09
schestowitzI'd repost or mention thisMar 30 12:09
schestowitzI think it's importantMar 30 12:09
anivarokMar 30 12:09
schestowitzTook me a while to do yesterday's postMar 30 12:10
schestowitzSomeone picked up a reference to another man with the same nameMar 30 12:10
anivari also sent a mail 2 youMar 30 12:10
schestowitzSo now they cling onto it and try to bury the whole.Mar 30 12:10
schestowitzYes, I got the mailMar 30 12:10
schestowitzHad no time to read them yetMar 30 12:10
schestowitzThere's not much I can doMar 30 12:10
anivarthat was a mistake. But I thought that it was something during he works on IKMMar 30 12:10
schestowitzCause I'm not part of the circulationMar 30 12:10
anivarschestowitz:  I knowMar 30 12:11
anivarBut just keep you informedMar 30 12:11
schestowitzSo to me it's useful if there's new infoMar 30 12:11
schestowitzI can't weigh inMar 30 12:11
schestowitzThanks, anivar Mar 30 12:11
schestowitzI appreciate itMar 30 12:11
anivarStress on the point ODF & Free software came to existance on IT@school, Project much before he joined..Mar 30 12:12
anivarAnd the problems during his term is already well coveredMar 30 12:13
anivarhe is trying to create  a victim image. Today One of my friend in ODF alliance called me and said that they understand the mistakeMar 30 12:13
schestowitzYesMar 30 12:14
schestowitzFree software != ODFMar 30 12:14
schestowitzAlso, IBM's involvedMar 30 12:14
schestowitzIBM != FSMar 30 12:14
anivarhe said  they wanted to please buerocrats with award to make more  things happenMar 30 12:14
anivaryesMar 30 12:14
schestowitzanivar: of course he'll deflectMar 30 12:14
schestowitzIt's the defenseMar 30 12:14
schestowitzI would be surprised if there wasn't a second 'version'Mar 30 12:15
schestowitzThat portrays this as a witchhuntMar 30 12:15
anivarBut In Kerala Free Software Dicussion is Grassroot and we adopt odf Because of its Freedom angleMar 30 12:15
schestowitzMicrosoft too always has some spin that makes it the victumMar 30 12:15
schestowitzLike the Redmond bridge taxpayers build for it..... Microsoft came up with spin for this too :-(Mar 30 12:15
schestowitzDon't let it deter youMar 30 12:15
anivarA big community is already there to facilitate change .. Kerala's Free Software achivements are Bottom up. Not Top downMar 30 12:16
anivarThat was their mistake in understandingMar 30 12:16
anivarAlso I came to knoe that Lotus Notes Team visited Kerala govt recently to push their freeware. but some of our friends blocked itMar 30 12:17
anivarIBMMar 30 12:17
schestowitzSounds like democracyMar 30 12:21
schestowitzWell, more of it than in the States for exampleMar 30 12:21
schestowitzIn the US (and UK) decisions always come from the topMar 30 12:21
schestowitzThe 'crowd' is kept stupid and impotentMar 30 12:22
schestowitzDecisions are made by the top and then forced through consent downstreamMar 30 12:22
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 30 12:22
schestowitzSo I find it fascinatingMar 30 12:22
schestowitzzer0c00l: hiMar 30 12:22
schestowitzanivar: zer0c00l is a FS advocate from IndiaMar 30 12:22
zer0c00lschestowitz:hiMar 30 12:22
zer0c00l:-)Mar 30 12:22
zer0c00lhi anivarMar 30 12:23
zer0c00lanivar from kerala?Mar 30 12:23
*zer0c00l thinks anivar hasn't noticed yetMar 30 12:25
anivarzer0c00l: yesMar 30 12:27
anivarzer0c00l:  are you from tamil nadu?Mar 30 12:28
anivari have seen in some IRC logsMar 30 12:28
zer0c00lyesMar 30 12:28
zer0c00li amMar 30 12:28
*anivar is based on bangalore nowMar 30 12:29
anivarworks with FSUG-BangaloreMar 30 12:29
zer0c00lgreatMar 30 12:29
zer0c00l:-)Mar 30 12:29
anivarzer0c00l:  are you a student?Mar 30 12:31
zer0c00lyes i amMar 30 12:31
zer0c00lanivar: yes i am a studentMar 30 12:31
schestowitzanivar helped with the post on the ODF thingMar 30 12:33
schestowitzI see that Anvar's friend jump to his rescue nowMar 30 12:33
schestowitzIn the commentsMar 30 12:33
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/2...Mar 30 12:33
anivarschestowitz:  Anvar is very friendly with some left party leaders including education ministerMar 30 12:34
anivarSo we can expect a lot of trolls hereMar 30 12:35
schestowitzThat's OKMar 30 12:39
schestowitzI knew it would happenMar 30 12:39
schestowitzThe problem is the anti-BN/pro-MS trolls who will piggyback the criticsMar 30 12:40
schestowitzThose who love Microsoft ($$) will usually find some support from others who do, e.g. politicians.Mar 30 12:40
anivarWe dont need to go for personal attacks with anwar. because our issue is different from that. he trying to personalise debateMar 30 12:41
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.67.231) has joined #boycottnovellMar 30 12:44
anivarwe dont have a problem if award is to IT@school and anwar receives it using his director position  .. Redhat's Recent award is also got for IT@school in same wayMar 30 12:44
anivarhttp://www.skoch.in/html/skoch_r...Mar 30 12:44
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*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerMar 30 12:53
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Mar 30 12:58
_Hicham_Hi RoyMar 30 13:05
schestowitzthe server went insaneMar 30 13:07
schestowitzServer Load  26.52 (4 cpus)Mar 30 13:07
schestowitzMemory Used  90.8 %Mar 30 13:07
schestowitzpop  failedMar 30 13:07
_Hicham_Roy : is it an attack from MS?Mar 30 13:08
zer0c00l_Hicham_: why not?Mar 30 13:10
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inqui... (NEC kills off PC sales )Mar 30 13:11
_Hicham_Roy : you should get preparedMar 30 13:12
schestowitzFor what?Mar 30 13:13
schestowitzAll I hear about April Fool is viruses... http://www.itwire.com/con...Mar 30 13:15
schestowitzI don't understand why it happened so suddenly... the server load...Mar 30 13:16
schestowitzIt was all fast.. and the memory usage seems suspectMar 30 13:16
_Hicham_what system is the server using?Mar 30 13:16
*pocek (i=pock@77-253-48-233.adsl.inetia.pl) has left #boycottnovellMar 30 13:19
schestowitzRed HatMar 30 13:19
_Hicham_is PHP patched with Suhosin?Mar 30 13:19
zer0c00lwhat is suhosin?Mar 30 13:20
oiaohmHmm I would suspect memory leak.Mar 30 13:20
schestowitz"Server Load  60.04 (4 cpus)"Mar 30 13:21
schestowitz"Memory Used  88.2 %"Mar 30 13:21
schestowitzoiaohm: seems possibleMar 30 13:21
schestowitzMemory usage is usually 40%. Never above 50%Mar 30 13:21
schestowitzI suppose they are aware by now, but haven't said anything yetMar 30 13:22
oiaohmYou have not updated you cache system recently by any chance.Mar 30 13:22
_Hicham_Maybe all the users became aware of pipelingMar 30 13:23
_Hicham_pipeliningMar 30 13:23
zer0c00lsuhosin hardening php http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/Mar 30 13:23


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