05.03.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 2nd, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
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| bgtr4 | lol, freenode banned all the proxies | May 02 01:31 |
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| bgtr4 | and mibbit too | May 02 01:34 |
| Balrog | bgtr4: WTF? | May 02 01:45 |
| bgtr4 | Balrog, ask freenode | May 02 01:55 |
| bgtr4 | why is it so free and open | May 02 01:56 |
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| twitter is back | May 02 04:02 | |
| here are a few sad observations from the medical records story. | May 02 04:02 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Damn. NoScript extension really screwed the pooch: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl… | May 02 04:02 |
| the cancer center, cited by gnu.org for use of reliable free software, http://www.gnu.org/software/r… had their domain name stolen by spammers. | May 02 04:03 | |
| http://web.archive.org/web/*/… | May 02 04:04 | |
| you can see the sad story | May 02 04:04 | |
| it ends up on some kind of crappy M$ server | May 02 04:04 | |
| http://www.meritcare.com/medicalservi… | May 02 04:04 | |
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| oh wow, the guy who worked at Roger Maris Cancer Center joined the “Open” camp. It is very interesting to read this 15 years down the line. http://www.crynwr.com/kc… | May 02 06:05 | |
| A whole generation of non free software on top of GNU/Linux came and went, such as the X Windows system he talks about. | May 02 06:16 | |
| Caldera, etc. They all suffered the same fate as non free Unix – wasted efforts for dead code that ultimately did not do it’s commercial owners any good. | May 02 06:17 | |
| At the same time, other companies have made better use of free software and have been rewarded. Google is a prominent example. Non free software is a dead end, no matter what you build it on. | May 02 06:18 | |
| RMS was right about this issue. | May 02 06:19 | |
| It is wrong to play games with non free software and ultimately everyone in the game loses. | May 02 06:19 | |
| schestowitz | Morning. | May 02 06:25 |
| good morning. | May 02 06:25 | |
| schestowitz | What’s up with the slashdot link? | May 02 06:25 |
| schestowitz | I’d check that later | May 02 06:25 |
| something about noscript, an ad blocker for FF | May 02 06:27 | |
| the article is rather trollish | May 02 06:27 | |
| I’ve never been a big fan of FF and FF extensions have likewise never impressed me. | May 02 06:29 | |
| I don’t like my software that far removed from my distro. | May 02 06:29 | |
| and I don’t have time to tinker with browser scripts, but if I do I’ll put my effort towards Konqueror. | May 02 06:30 | |
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| here’s something nice http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.74… | May 02 06:45 | |
| ushimitsudoki | NoScript – a popular FF extension that prevents JavaScript/Flash/etc. has been found to “whitelist” itself in a different extension, AdBlock – so that NoScript ads show | May 02 06:45 |
| works well with Konq. | May 02 06:45 | |
| ushimitsudoki | It’s a fairly stinky deal because NoScript/AdBlock Plus are two commonly recommneded FF extensions | May 02 06:45 |
| yeah, yeah. | May 02 06:46 | |
| just use gnash and you won’t have ad problems. | May 02 06:46 | |
| ushimitsudoki | That’s not true. Both of these deal with much more than just Flash | May 02 06:46 |
| so does konq | May 02 06:47 | |
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| just blocking external window openings and not running flash does the trick for me | May 02 06:47 | |
| ushimitsudoki | No Javascript, then? | May 02 06:47 |
| If I really want to disable all scripting, I pull up dillo. | May 02 06:47 | |
| konq handles javascript reasonably well. only really crap sites give it trouble. | May 02 06:48 | |
| oiaohm | I see you saw what the tomtom bloat in memory is like schestowitz | May 02 06:48 |
| good sites, like the above mentioned openstreetmap.org work very well | May 02 06:49 | |
| ushimitsudoki | But NoScript allows site/domain specific javascript/java/flash/silverlight/etc. etc. and protects against XSS and hijacks. It was really a useful extension until this betrayal of trust | May 02 06:49 |
| was it free software? | May 02 06:49 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Yes, GPL – there is some talk of a fork now | May 02 06:49 |
| if it was, you can fork it. if it was not, there was not “trust” to begin with. | May 02 06:50 | |
| I just don’t really grove on FF. | May 02 06:50 | |
| Konq is easier for me. | May 02 06:50 | |
| ushimitsudoki | The problem is there are accusations that the developer was also intentionally obfusucating the code to make it harder for people to see. It’s a stinky issue right now. | May 02 06:50 |
| I’m sorry it is a problem for you. | May 02 06:51 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Well, I just removed it – but it’s a problem for a lot of FF users. It raises some other issues too, because it’s the first (?) example of one extension deliberately changing settings on a second extension without user knowledge and to specifically work around that 2nd extension | May 02 06:52 |
| FF is like Samba to me, only useful for talking to hostile sites. | May 02 06:54 | |
| I’m happier without the hostility. | May 02 06:54 | |
| ushimitsudoki | I gave up on Konq when I last tried KDE (4.1). I might look at KDE again, but I’m in no rush since the 4.x I have tried have been such utter shit. That pretty much leaves FF and Opera as viable choices from wide browsing needs. | May 02 06:55 |
| I’d prefer if people would just quit chasing M$ crap. Google should not bother to “optimize” for IE and Windows, for example. | May 02 06:55 | |
| I’m still using the 3.5 branch. | May 02 06:55 | |
| works great | May 02 06:55 | |
| ushimitsudoki | I heard a lot of people were staying with 3.5. I moved to XFCE and am pretty happy with it. | May 02 06:56 |
| oiaohm | I always planed to stay on 3.5 until about 4.5 | May 02 06:56 |
| oiaohm | It takes that long for all the features of KDE to return. | May 02 06:56 |
| I use E16. | May 02 06:57 | |
| no other window manager works as well for me. | May 02 06:57 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Yeah, I will be waiting until I hear from people I personally know and trust that KDE is ready. I can’t take anything the KDE team or supporters say seriously after the 4.0 and 4.1 hype and disappointment | May 02 06:57 |
| I may try KDE 4 for myself, but I’m not interested in their window manager, just the applications. | May 02 06:58 | |
| Kontact and Konq are hard to beat. I also like Kicker. | May 02 06:58 | |
| It’s nice that those things all run well on E16 | May 02 06:58 | |
| *amarsh04 is also on KDE 3.5.X until everything works on KDE 4.X | May 02 06:59 | |
| you have to go easy on KDE though. The hype was mainly external. | May 02 06:59 | |
| KDE people told everyone who wold listen that 4.1, for example, was not ready for regular desktop use. | May 02 07:00 | |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.0 hype was the marketers of KDE not the developers. | May 02 07:00 |
| ushimitsudoki | I’m not sure where all the hype came from, but I do know almost every feed in my reader was promoting KDE 4.0 – I never once read anything about 4.0 being “dev only” or anything like that until *after* the anger from users. | May 02 07:01 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.1 hype was external to the KDE project. | May 02 07:01 |
| oiaohm | KDE has a marketing group ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:01 |
| Bruce Byfield made a big stink about KDE 4, so did a lot of trolls | May 02 07:01 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Well, epic fail for the marketing group then | May 02 07:01 |
| oiaohm | Wrong people got skinned alive. | May 02 07:01 |
| I don’t know. I never got angry with the KDE people. That would have been silly. | May 02 07:02 | |
| oiaohm | Developers got torched instead of the lead marketers. | May 02 07:02 |
| Who did the torching? | May 02 07:02 | |
| oiaohm | People who got upset that KDE 4.0 did not work. | May 02 07:02 |
| like you? | May 02 07:02 | |
| oiaohm | No I was talking to the developers I knew what to expect. | May 02 07:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | Me. 4.0 and 4.1 were both broken as hell. | May 02 07:03 |
| So? | May 02 07:03 | |
| oiaohm | And the developers openly told people that ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:03 |
| oiaohm | Its due to how huge the changes worse. | May 02 07:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | No they did not. At least not in any of the places that I read. I heard a LOT about it, AFTER the launch as excuse-making and ass-covering. Before the launch, not so much. | May 02 07:04 |
| oiaohm | KDE development mailling lists for developers. | May 02 07:04 |
| oiaohm | Go back and read ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:04 |
| oiaohm | They were warning about it before the release. | May 02 07:04 |
| oiaohm | Web site of KDE is made by the marketing team. | May 02 07:05 |
| ushimitsudoki | Nope. Don’t care to. I can only follow so many news sources. I already have about 4 dozen linux feeds in my reader. They screwed up. Whether marketing or developer or whatever. Bottom line is KDE project screwed the pooch. | May 02 07:05 |
| how would you suggest them starting a new project? | May 02 07:19 | |
| they made a developer release, what was wrong with that? | May 02 07:20 | |
| ushimitsudoki | IF they intended 4.0 to be some sort of “transition / developer only / not for user release”, that’s fine, but they should have gotten that word out clearly and plainly. They did not. | May 02 07:20 |
| ushimitsudoki | It’s only after the fact that all that “not for end-users” talk came out – or it sure seemed that way to me. If you have a few good cites that they were putting that word out before the release, I’d be happy to look at them and tone down my criticism | May 02 07:21 |
| ushimitsudoki | It’s possible my sampling of news sources missed the message. Unlikely, but possible. | May 02 07:21 |
| ushimitsudoki | It bothers me because KDE’s failure with 4.x so far has really strengthened GNOME, and I don’t trust GNOME to not keep pushing mono out. That’s the point that bothers me more than anything | May 02 07:23 |
| you just said that you did not bother to write what they read because you were busy reading other things. | May 02 07:23 | |
| er, read what they wrote. | May 02 07:24 | |
| you seem to be happier calling them names than going back and verifying what you say is true. that’s not very nice. | May 02 07:25 | |
| ushimitsudoki | No I didn’t. I mean I’m not going to go back and look through a KDE Dev mailing list. For two reasons: 1. That’s not where the message should be limited to, and 2. I’m asking for specific cites | May 02 07:25 |
| ushimitsudoki | If someone has some cites, I’ll be glad to look. But the current reality is that the 4.0 release was a dissappointing failure and the best argument here is that “oh that was marketing, but the developers had a different story”. Ok, well then, point me specifically to that different story. | May 02 07:26 |
| schestowitz | The truth about Vista 7 slowly trickles in: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/02/vista-7… | May 02 07:26 |
| ushimitsudoki | Just for example, consider the KDE relase announcement for 4.0: http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/ | May 02 07:28 |
| ushimitsudoki | If you come away from that thinking it is “not for end users / developers’ only”, then you read things very differently than I do | May 02 07:28 |
| ushimitsudoki | There were a ton of announcements like this leading up to the release, often with much more hype and breathless anticipation of how awesome 4.0 was going to be | May 02 07:29 |
| ushimitsudoki | I don’t really think the burden of proof lies there | May 02 07:30 |
| well, if you read the “give it a spin” section, you see that it’s all “alpha” and “experimental” | May 02 07:31 | |
| ” For those interested in getting packages to test and contribute, several distributions have notified us that they will have KDE 4.0 packages available at or soon after the release.” | May 02 07:33 | |
| I suppose those are not really clear warnings, but there it is. | May 02 07:33 | |
| Sane distributions still ship KDE 3.5 in their stable branches. | May 02 07:33 | |
| ushimitsudoki | Sure, the distros and packaging were, but an “alpha version of a KDE-4 based” distro is not the same as saying KDE 4 itself is alpha. Anyway, like I say, I will probably give KDE another look once some trusted sources tell me it’s ready, but I already gave it two tries and probably won’t do it again on my own intiative | May 02 07:34 |
| ushimitsudoki | I really would like to see KDE succeed. They are far more mono-resistant (though not as much as I’d like) | May 02 07:35 |
| KDE is a success. | May 02 07:35 | |
| ushimitsudoki | I can’t run it, so I don’t think I could agree there. | May 02 07:36 |
| oiaohm | announcements on kde.org are not written by the developers ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | oiaohm: so what? They are part of the KDE project. So the *project* is to blame. It doesn’t really matter IF the developer’s said different (which may or may not be true) | May 02 07:40 |
| ushimitsudoki | Now, that sucks if you are developer, sure. But that’s the way things are | May 02 07:40 |
| Nice Vista 7 failure round up, Roy. | May 02 07:40 | |
| oiaohm | The in source change logs and readmes dis played a different story ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:40 |
| oiaohm | Yes it suxed badly for the KDE 4.x developers. | May 02 07:41 |
| oiaohm | When marketing people over sell something they normally get missed for the sledging. | May 02 07:41 |
| oiaohm | readmes included major warnings about missing features. | May 02 07:42 |
| oiaohm | There was a failure inside the KDE project betweent the marketing group and the developers group. Its still not working perfect ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:43 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people did not blame the project instead directly blamed developers for defective provide. ushimitsudoki | May 02 07:44 |
| oiaohm | People fail to split marketing from real state in a lot of cases. | May 02 07:45 |
| schestowitz | Neowin Authorship Affiliated with Microsoft; Microsoft Partners See Income Fall 80% or Go Out of Business: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/… | May 02 07:56 |
| schestowitz | Wen Vista7 is out people will see it’s a naked emperor | May 02 07:57 |
| schestowitz | Just like Vista in Jan 2007 | May 02 07:57 |
| schestowitz | Wait and watch how this Turd Second Edition leads to serious erosion not only of MICROSOFT PROFITS but market share also | May 02 07:58 |
| schestowitz | They can’t survive giving a Vista7 away for free. | May 02 07:58 |
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| oiaohm | Scary thing about gnome and kde there marketing teams out number there programmers. | May 02 08:02 |
| more importantly, M$ can’t survive if people don’t see a future for them. The brand is irreparably tarnished. | May 02 08:10 | |
| If they can’t field a decent desktop in 9 years, they never will. | May 02 08:10 | |
| no product, no future. | May 02 08:10 | |
| oiaohm | The game has changed. | May 02 08:10 |
| who wants stock in a company without a future? | May 02 08:10 | |
| oiaohm | MS has not changed with the game. | May 02 08:10 |
| oiaohm | Ie OS using more resourses is screwed. | May 02 08:11 |
| oiaohm | This using more resources use to be what was required to sell new hardware. | May 02 08:11 |
| oiaohm | Netbooks have kinda turned that on ear. | May 02 08:11 |
| they were back under their $20 rock for most of the day, http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | May 02 08:11 | |
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| M$ owned the computer market by excluding useful features, like 3D acceleration, from GNU/Linux for 10 years. They have lost that hardware advantage, but worse their own desktop sucks so bad that the hardware ownership does not matter. | May 02 08:13 | |
| GNU/Linux now has spinning cubes, flame effects and great games with noting but free software. Business users don’t care, they just want their workers to be able to get their work done. | May 02 08:15 | |
| I can tell you that M$’s insane network model, awful file open dialogs, and many other features are extremely frustrating in use. | May 02 08:16 | |
| mib_61p3n7 | shestowitz: am I blacklisted or some such? tried to logon as ml2mst but the connection was refused :-/ | May 02 08:16 |
| just change your nick | May 02 08:17 | |
| twitter is sleepy | May 02 08:17 | |
| nick:/sleepy | May 02 08:17 | |
| ugh | May 02 08:17 | |
| gn | May 02 08:18 | |
| mib_61p3n7 | twitter: are you American or what? | May 02 08:19 |
| mib_61p3n7 | It is 9:30 am here in Europe  |
May 02 08:19 |
| mib_61p3n7 | I am worried about [H]omer (http://slated.org)  |
May 02 08:27 |
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| bgtr4 | Intellectual Monopolists Revoke Your “Right to Read Out Loud” | May 02 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s PR Department (Waggener Edstrom) Patents AstroTurfing-related Methods http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05… | May 02 08:41 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: Kindle, eh? | May 02 08:41 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: be sure to read it. | May 02 08:42 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, it’s on http://slated.org/ | May 02 08:43 |
| bgtr4 | second post | May 02 08:43 |
| schestowitz | Oh, wait. | May 02 08:43 |
| bgtr4 | 3rd | May 02 08:43 |
| oiaohm | http://www.waggeneredstrom.com/abo… I said to look though all the our IP. schestowitz. That first one is a universal translator. | May 02 08:52 |
| oiaohm | Some of there other ones are some quite strange scanning tools to so call guide the direction of your development. | May 02 08:52 |
| oiaohm | Now are someof MS bad selections linked to what Waggener and Edstrom have developed schestowitz. | May 02 08:55 |
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| oiaohm | It really strange to depend on a machine to tell you if your marketing it working. | May 02 09:04 |
| oiaohm | Its even more strange attempt to use a machine to tell you if you are the market leader or not. | May 02 09:06 |
| oiaohm | http://www.waggeneredstrom.com/n… Wish we could download this video schestowitz | May 02 09:09 |
| oiaohm | It covers all the methods you have been seeing schestowitz | May 02 09:09 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmm… | May 02 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we’ll cover it another day | May 02 09:14 |
| oiaohm | Idea of throw more resoruces and shills/astro turffers at problem is documented graphically in that video. | May 02 09:15 |
| oiaohm | Instead of fixing problem that caused the bad PR in the first place. | May 02 09:16 |
| oiaohm | The information is around publicly to see MS tattics. | May 02 09:17 |
| schestowitz | Haha. Good video | May 02 09:21 |
| schestowitz | I’ll write about it tomorrow maybe | May 02 09:21 |
| schestowitz | US Government Advisor from Microsoft Travels to Europe and Lobbies: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/02/cr… | May 02 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia Founder Slams Wikipedia Art http://www.webpronews.com/topnews… | May 02 09:36 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 02 09:37 |
| schestowitz | Yo. | May 02 09:41 |
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| *trmanco open Gnote | May 02 09:53 | |
*trmanco it’s like it’s already been started  |
May 02 09:53 | |
| trmanco | schestowitz, shane left me a comment | May 02 09:58 |
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| schestowitz | URL? | May 02 10:13 |
| trmanco | http://trmanco.com/2009/05/01/… | May 02 10:15 |
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| trmanco | http://edition.cnn.com/video/#… | May 02 10:52 |
| ushimitsudoki | damn hate to lol at that CNN video, see the driver banging his hands on the steering wheel, he knows he has messed up for real | May 02 10:56 |
| trmanco | that is what happens when you do what you shouldn’t do while driving | May 02 10:59 |
| amarsh04 | back later… | May 02 10:59 |
| ushimitsudoki | yup stupid move no doubt on the driver’s part | May 02 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | What about the cars he hit? | May 02 11:01 |
| schestowitz | No word in CNN about that? | May 02 11:01 |
| schestowitz | I guess it’s not part of their entertainment spiel between commericial breaks | May 02 11:02 |
| ushimitsudoki | It showed in the video. Looked like he just rear-ended a station wagon | May 02 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but the drivers in front could hurt the back or die | May 02 11:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | true | May 02 11:04 |
| trmanco | Tridge — Subject: [PATCH] Add CONFIG_VFAT_NO_CREATE_WITH_LONGNAMES option: http://www.groklaw.net/articl… | May 02 11:06 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: BTW, Shane misses the point that we should reduce dependency on Microsoft | May 02 11:10 |
| schestowitz | Why ELSE would we oppose OOXML quite so vigorously? | May 02 11:10 |
| trmanco | well, that vfat penten problem will be solved with that patch | May 02 11:11 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: I met a lady like 10 years ago who was hurt in this way | May 02 11:11 |
| schestowitz | It’s different when you hear from people’s whose back id dodgy for life before some vain arsehole drove fast for showoff and then hit cars at the back. | May 02 11:11 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: yeah it’s terrible, I was just struck by the driver banging his hands on the steering wheel, realizing he had screwed up (the “oh shit!” moment) | May 02 11:12 |
| schestowitz | *people whose back is | May 02 11:12 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: did the driver not look back at passengers? | May 02 11:12 |
| schestowitz | “Oh man! The wheelll!” | May 02 11:13 |
| ushimitsudoki | The clip ended almost right after the impact showing the driver banging the wheel | May 02 11:13 |
| schestowitz | knock on wood.. | May 02 11:13 |
| ushimitsudoki | The NoScript guy has since released 2 versions, the last of which removes any changes he had made to the other extensions “automatically and permanently with no questions asked” – I wonder if it will satisfy people? | May 02 11:15 |
| trmanco | my uncle was hit like that | May 02 11:16 |
| schestowitz | I blame “whell-bangers” | May 02 11:17 |
| trmanco | the fast driving idiot crashed into my uncle’s car which was on the side road stopped | May 02 11:17 |
| schestowitz | wheel banger = a driver who’s more concerned with some ‘stupd msg lolz xoxo” than drivers around him and people in the vehicle | May 02 11:18 |
| trmanco | my uncle hit his lip on the wheel and my cousin was lucky, had no injury at all, the back of the car was trashed | May 02 11:18 |
| schestowitz | I never had an accident fortunately | May 02 11:18 |
| trmanco | the rear bumper almost touched the front seats | May 02 11:18 |
| schestowitz | (Unless another person was driving) | May 02 11:18 |
| trmanco | the back of the front seats* | May 02 11:18 |
| trmanco | Microsoft and Linux trade patent words in Europe: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… | May 02 11:21 |
| oiaohm | Yep IBM in there is for tighting of patent rules. | May 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Over all. | May 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/5/1/280 Source code answer. | May 02 11:28 |
| _Hicham_ | when will vfat be over? | May 02 11:29 |
| trmanco | yay, I finally have Gnote 0.3.0 |
May 02 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Either when MS losses it patents on it or some other filesystem becomes dominate _Hicham_ | May 02 11:31 |
| *neonfloss has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 02 11:34 | |
| _Hicham_ | why vendors can’t just use plain ext3? | May 02 11:35 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean of flash drives and so on? | May 02 11:35 |
| _Hicham_ | without having to pay a dime to MS? | May 02 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Its interfacing with windows. | May 02 11:36 |
| oiaohm | And many OS’s. | May 02 11:36 |
| oiaohm | I am sorry ext3 is not well supported. | May 02 11:36 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is free | May 02 11:36 |
| _Hicham_ | and there is no fear in using it | May 02 11:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that companies will think twice before using FAT, after the TomTom law suit | May 02 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel alterations are about allowing the Linux kernel to be built with some fat compadiblity ok 8.3 filenames is enough for most embeded work. | May 02 11:41 |
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| Omar87 | Who’s Ashok Pai? | May 02 11:59 |
| Omar87 | Hi all. | May 02 11:59 |
| ushimitsudoki | Hello | May 02 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | GE | May 02 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Buggers | May 02 12:13 |
| schestowitz | My sister works for them and her husband works for the criminals from Intel. Gah. | May 02 12:13 |
| schestowitz | We need to reward those who facilitate Free software, not those who fight against it | May 02 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Intel is not as big of criminals as they use to be. | May 02 12:15 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Intel is contributing to gcc development | May 02 12:16 |
| schestowitz | For selfish gain | May 02 12:17 |
| schestowitz | And they harm Linux at the same time | May 02 12:17 |
| schestowitz | Intel wants to sell hardware | May 02 12:18 |
| schestowitz | If it needs to bully and bribe for it, it does that too | May 02 12:18 |
| Omar87 | Who’s Ashok Pai? | May 02 12:18 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: tell that to the EU Commision | May 02 12:18 |
| dsmith_ | morning | May 02 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: someone of no importance | May 02 12:18 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Really? So, how come a quote of someone of no importance became important itself all of a sudden? | May 02 12:19 |
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| schestowitz | Omar87: fits the context | May 02 12:28 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: That’s right, I agree with that. | May 02 12:28 |
| Omar87 | http://www.linkedin.com/p… | May 02 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Should we classify people based on important|not important and just ignore what “unimportant” people say? That’s elitist | May 02 12:29 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I know, I’m against that as well, you are correct. | May 02 12:33 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Typo: “[A]mazing that corruption is excepted by the entire developed world. stunning that it has met with resistance only with some developing nations and maybe the european union. what should have been an overwhelming anger by all nations . the notion that developed nation(s) are immune to corruption is bogus. microsoft did it in full view, without any hesitation. microsoft should be nailed for this.” -Ashok Pai | May 02 12:35 |
| schestowitz | what is npviewer.bin? | May 02 12:44 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: I preserved the quote | May 02 12:44 |
| schestowitz | So not sure there can be a typo in there | May 02 12:44 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Morning. | May 02 12:46 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Roy, in regards to this line in the US Government Advisor from Microsoft Travels to Europe article: | May 02 12:47 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Here we have yet another “schmoozing” trip. It’s important to explore and to understand how much room there is for manipulation of this ’system’, which is practically just a group of human beings. They are all corruptible and only if their reputation is at stake will they stay loyal to principles worth obeying. █ | May 02 12:47 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | The other issue is that too many people do not understand the stakes in the situation. I know that of my family I’m the only one who really understands, and it’s not for lack of trying to explain. | May 02 12:48 |
| trmanco | Search this site: | May 02 12:51 |
| trmanco | Social Desktop Starts to Arrive_: http://dot.kde.org/2009/05/01/… | May 02 12:51 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | Neat idea. I may have to switch to KDE <G> | May 02 12:54 |
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| The_Mad_Hatter | As to my earlier posts, I know there is no simple way of explaining all the Microsoft crap, believe me, I’ve looked for one. But it would be damned useful if we could come up with a 1 page short explanation. | May 02 12:55 |
| oiaohm | I have 1 line. MS depends on PR, deals and Tricks no products so bending the complete market. | May 02 12:57 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: “that developed nation” —> “that developed nations” | May 02 12:57 |
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| trmanco | Open source Exchange replacements: http://www.h-online.com/open/Open… | May 02 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Stupid IBM is running the country too. IBM lubricates Obama’s IT stimulus < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… > People– not private tyrannies– are supposed to drive policies | May 02 13:21 |
| schestowitz | OBAMAA: More of the Same{tm} | May 02 13:21 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I think I got it days agi | May 02 13:21 |
| schestowitz | *ago | May 02 13:22 |
| trmanco | yes 29th | May 02 13:22 |
| trmanco |  |
May 02 13:22 |
| trmanco | caught this on digg | May 02 13:22 |
| trmanco | http://code.google.com/p/xee/… | May 02 13:24 |
| trmanco | PSD sucks | May 02 13:24 |
| trmanco | No more Internet exploder for that school -> http://digg.com/d1q1jk | May 02 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Anyone else noticing the slow down in MS marketing. | May 02 13:26 |
| trmanco | yeah | May 02 13:27 |
| trmanco | in COLA for example, the trolls have slowed down | May 02 13:27 |
| trmanco | spring clean? | May 02 13:27 |
| oiaohm | So its accross companies trmanco? | May 02 13:35 |
| trmanco | I guess so | May 02 13:36 |
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| schestowitz | General Electric Joins Microsoft’s Fight Against Free Software: http://boycottnovell.com/2009… | May 02 13:54 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, MS PR is down | May 02 13:55 |
| schestowitz | They also cut budgets | May 02 13:55 |
| schestowitz | “FireFox 3.10?????/” | May 02 13:56 |
| schestowitz | 3.0.10 | May 02 13:56 |
| schestowitz | daemonfc did a good job praising Mandriva despite the attacks on him for reviewing Vista7 | May 02 13:57 |
| trmanco | lol | May 02 13:57 |
| trmanco | yeah, but the word firefox is there, so |
May 02 13:57 |
| schestowitz | is [h]omer/slated on a break? | May 02 13:58 |
| schestowitz | I tried mailing him, no response yet. | May 02 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Anyone who is Dutch can help the exposition of the TomTom/Microsoft scam: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | May 02 13:59 |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz, you should try contacting MathFox at groklaw for that | May 02 14:10 |
| schestowitz | I know, but I never talk to him | May 02 14:31 |
| schestowitz | I mailed him daily when Groklaw took a break | May 02 14:32 |
| amarsh04 | oh, ok… | May 02 14:38 |
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| oiaohm | Thing you missed about IBM. IBM patents don’t apply to open source companies. Its closed source companies that are at risk. | May 02 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Still… | May 02 14:48 |
| schestowitz | It’s like promoting nukes for “defensive purposes” | May 02 14:48 |
| oiaohm | What would a stay of release do to MS with Windows due to patents not paided. | May 02 14:49 |
| schestowitz | If IBM is worries about being hit by patent, then it should eliminate those types of patents, not get its own | May 02 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Question is IBM thinking defensive or offensive. | May 02 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Basically the best way to get rid of software patents for good is jam the system up majorally taking a big company out of existance in the process. | May 02 14:50 |
| oiaohm | MS is thinking IBM is thinking defensive. | May 02 14:51 |
| schestowitz | Part 2 of the W-E example of Microsoft ‘marketing’ (stalking of people): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/02/… | May 02 14:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes, reform in the system requires trashing of bad ethics | May 02 14:57 |
| schestowitz | The Internet is a tool for awareness | May 02 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I’ve got to go now. | May 02 14:57 |
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| wow, that KDE social desktop looks very cool | May 02 16:05 | |
| integration into all aspects and all programs is an interesting idea | May 02 16:06 | |
| as usual, this means that you don’t have to run their window manager to get the benefits. | May 02 16:06 | |
| you can just run the pieces that you like | May 02 16:07 | |
| the funny thing is that KDE already makes Winblows and OSX look incomplete. Social integration will blow the non free desktops away. | May 02 16:08 | |
| trmanco |  |
May 02 16:17 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, | May 02 16:20 |
| the_mad_hatter | Mike Magee’s blog is “http://volesoft.com/“ | May 02 16:20 |
| the_mad_hatter | I was told he has something to do with http://www.itexaminer.com/ | May 02 16:21 |
| the_mad_hatter | but I don’t know if that’s true. | May 02 16:21 |
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| I hate Outlook. It does not have a good grip on threads | May 02 16:56 | |
| idiot client. | May 02 16:56 | |
| this explains the way a lot of people quote more than reasonable and bottom post their own comments | May 02 16:57 | |
| schestowitz | I’ve just mailed Hispalinux about the apparent Microsoft collusion in Spain | May 02 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Outlook is trash | May 02 17:19 |
| trmanco | bloat | May 02 17:20 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives… | May 02 17:21 |
| schestowitz | brb | May 02 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft won’t support Free software and embrace it, but it’s really troubling that it won’t allow OTHERS to do it. What an authoritarian complex. | May 02 17:39 |
| trmanco | funny | May 02 17:39 |
| schestowitz | This dude’s funny. http://www.youtube.com/wat… | May 02 17:40 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I’ll see what’s in the MSFT news | May 02 17:40 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Google/?p=1384 Microsoft is bleeding, time to rethink | May 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft swing back to losses in XBox, having lost like $7 billion so far http://www.1up.com/do/newsSto… | May 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Another XBox360 goes bellyup: http://www.edn.com/blog/400… | May 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | An XBox boss quits: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/34129/Xb… | May 02 17:49 |
| schestowitz | XBox = Kaput | May 02 17:49 |
| schestowitz | twitter: added to microsoft log (Whichever | May 02 17:49 |
| thanks it might be a good Death Watch entry. | May 02 17:50 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.electronista.com/art… http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/04/30… | May 02 17:50 |
| There are so many morbidity indicators that it’s hard to keep up | May 02 17:51 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co… | May 02 17:51 |
| schestowitz | twitter: I keep track too | May 02 17:51 |
| schestowitz | We’ll set up Wiki indexes some time this year | May 02 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Sort of a post mortem, organised by products/chronologically. In USENET I have thousands of examples | May 02 17:52 |
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| trmanco | great comments you are having on the gnote/tomboy comparison |
May 02 17:52 |
| you have done a nice job of tracking while I’ve been busy | May 02 17:52 | |
| schestowitz | Articles about Vista in the past week: 4 | May 02 17:52 |
| schestowitz | twitter: we can always synch | May 02 17:52 |
| *mib_xd0iib is now known as _Hicham_ | May 02 17:52 | |
| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | All the Vista stories are about SP2 | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Not Vista7 | May 02 17:53 |
| _Hicham_ | im on vista right now | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Which is essentially the same | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Hi, _Hicham_ | May 02 17:53 |
| _Hicham_ | using IE7 | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | May 02 17:53 |
| ick | May 02 17:53 | |
| schestowitz | Sorry to hear | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | iIt could be worse | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Could be BetaVista7 | May 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | ChannelWeb, NY: Microsoft Says Vista Taught Valuable Lessons | May 02 17:53 |
| painful browser. Does XPista7 come with IE 7? | May 02 17:53 | |
| trmanco | vispa7 will come with 8 AFAIK | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | That’s the shill/PR type article | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | “Microsoft Says Vista Taught Valuable Lessons” | May 02 17:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista is predominant on new laptops | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Translation: “we’ll do better next time.. | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | NOT | May 02 17:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista is just a fucking operating system | May 02 17:54 |
| it’s hard to imagine them doing better | May 02 17:54 | |
| _Hicham_ | basically they wrapped XP into a new theme engine | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Vespa7? | May 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Not Edsel? | May 02 17:54 |
| it’s also hard for me to imagine retailers dumb enough to get channel stuffed this time | May 02 17:54 | |
| _Hicham_ | the Data Execution Prevention just made things worse | May 02 17:55 |
| trmanco | more like “Besta7″ | May 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | twitter: good point | May 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Confidence in the channel (WHAT’S LEFT OF IT) is low | May 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft screwed them beforer | May 02 17:55 |
| they now have to bribe the OEM. | May 02 17:55 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : retailers will still ship it | May 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Just so that they can recruit NPD to lie publicly | May 02 17:55 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, that is old technology | May 02 17:55 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | May 02 17:55 |
| _Hicham_ | for sure | May 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Casting SALES TO CHANNEL as sales to public | May 02 17:55 |
| right | May 02 17:56 | |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : doesn’t matter if it is old trmanco | May 02 17:56 |
| trmanco | yeah, true | May 02 17:56 |
| _Hicham_ | what matters is money to retailers | May 02 17:56 |
| but with CompUSA, Circuit City and others tits up, who’s left to stuff? | May 02 17:56 | |
| _Hicham_ | everyone | May 02 17:56 |
| _Hicham_ | retailers should be bribed to sell Linux | May 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | “Windows 7″ matches: 34 | May 02 17:57 |
| Retailers are all teetering on bankruptcy. No one is going to buy loads of Windows 7. | May 02 17:57 | |
| schestowitz | Ten times that of Vista | May 02 17:57 |
| _Hicham_ | I will do that if I set up my own Linux Distro | May 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | See? Vapourware tactics | May 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | Vista is dea | May 02 17:57 |
| trmanco | good news for redhat | May 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | People need to think about what does not exist | May 02 17:57 |
| Vista was DOA. | May 02 17:57 | |
| trmanco | Red Hat plans more hiring after adding 600 employees: http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle… | May 02 17:57 |
| Windows 7 is in an even worse spot. | May 02 17:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | I like the RedHat way of doing things | May 02 17:57 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat is a true Open Source model | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | I thought about Red Hat earlier | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Might they have hubert | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | He moved to Fedora | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | They hired some Driva devs | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | And I heard they also look at hiring former Novellers | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | The Mandriva guys moved to Fedora also | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | I hope hub continues with gnote | May 02 17:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 is going to be released in 25 days | May 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Would Red Hat fund a Tomboy port? | May 02 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : what for? | May 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | That’s the point | May 02 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat doesn’t have time for that | May 02 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat focuses on more interesting areas | May 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | It does not do much on the desktop, either | May 02 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | Like kernel bugs | May 02 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | well, did u test fedora? | May 02 18:00 |
| _Hicham_ | this is just a myth | May 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Jack Schofield is advertising Windows: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technolo… | May 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Nothing new under the sun | May 02 18:02 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat contributes to desktop through fedora project | May 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | They also say nothing about intent | May 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | MS is dumping it to suppress competition | May 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I know | May 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | I was going to say that | May 02 18:02 |
| trmanco | Feds’ red tape left medical devices infected with computer virus: http://news.cnet.com/8301… | May 02 18:03 |
| schestowitz | I think Novell funds more desktop apps than Red Hat | May 02 18:03 |
| schestowitz | I could be wrong | May 02 18:03 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, according to Graig Kroah Hartman, RedHat is the Open Source Leader | May 02 18:03 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat contributes the most to kernel | May 02 18:04 |
| _Hicham_ | and gcc | May 02 18:04 |
| _Hicham_ | and binutils | May 02 18:04 |
| _Hicham_ | and gnome | May 02 18:04 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u want more? | May 02 18:04 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, it is the only distro that i know that supports KMS | May 02 18:05 |
| _Hicham_ | though KMS is still buggy | May 02 18:05 |
| I like the Outlook rant but I don’t understand bottom posting. What’s the big deal about “context” when your mail client does threads well? I treat quotes like footnotes and send them to the bottom to explain my perspective if anyone cares. | May 02 18:05 | |
| schestowitz | I can hadly see reporters criticising VIsta7 | May 02 18:06 |
