Your example does actually show freedom. The user has the freedom to do what you stated, but at the risk of being caught.
And that’s why so many people download dodgy music and movies. They make that choice.

The main point is that an end user just wants something to work, they often aren’t bothered about how they get there. A constant example I come across is people asking if I have a “copy” of Microsoft Office or know where to get one. They still have freedom to do so, but they may get caught. In most cases they don’t care, they just want to be able to achieve a goal.

Another example is XBMC. An excellent application, and a more realistic example. Open source in development, so you can download the source no problem, but compiled illegally. People still go and get it though, and it has become huge, so much so it has spread to other platforms.

Either way, it’s obviously much better if Mono stays above ground. I’m not denying that.

My point was that if it goes underground, it will happily live on and so will much of the community around it. And I doubt they’ll have much concern about the difference between technical aptitude and freedom. They’ll just want to use Gnome-Do etc…

It’s not like I’ll be sitting in the basement of my house using Mono. I don’t find it much of a predicament.

I’ll download it from somewhere and use it like any other peice of software. And still be a free citizen.

This is a problem for free citizens. A free citizen and upstanding citizen should be allowed to conduct their business in an upright manner.

Please don’t confuse having technical aptitude as equal to having freedom. Having the aptitude to perform certain actions (ex. install and use unauthorised copies of proprietary software) is not the same thing as having freedom to perform these actions.

You as an individual may have the aptitude to hide your actions from people that threaten harm, but that doesn’t mean you have freedom. Consider this experiment:
1. Make 5000 copies of Microsoft Windows and Adobe Photoshop and $LATEST_POPMUSIC_SENSATION without permission of Microsoft and Adobe and $POPMUSIC_DISTRIBUTOR.
2. Share every single copy of these things
3. Make video evidence of you sharing all your copies.
4. Collect 3rd party witnesses to verify the authenticity of your evidence.
5. Send copies of the evidence to Microsoft and Adobe and $POPMUSIC_DISTRIBUTOR along with your name, address and phone number.

I’ll download it from somewhere and use it like any other peice of software. And still be a free citizen.

XBMC is exactly the same. And free citizens do all sorts like use illegal versions of Windows, download music and movies illegally etc… Mono going underground, if ever, isn’t a huge problem in my eyes.

Anyway as mentioned, the Ubuntu team have already posted their view, and will continue working with and using Mono. They take patent issues seriously, and don’t find it to be a threat.

b) Mono goes underground, and I run Gnome-Do illegally.

This is a predicament for free citizens. A free citizen should not be required to hide underground in order to conduct any just activity. Mono going underground is a truly plasible scenario which is the reason why we lobby against it.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-June/000584.html

P.S. : just because RMS has excellent foresight doesn’t exempt him from making mistakes or making non-optimal decisions.

so you can try to lie to some, and mabey they will even believe you, but again anyone that knows you will know different.

Just as you yourself really know. but i guess your “in” so far now that backing out would be impossible.

But good luck in trying to get any tech industry credability in your lifetime. You will forever be that guy who hates Novell for no reason anyone can really work out.

If I was hiring someone, and i googled your name there would be NO WAY on earth you would get a job with me. .

But I think getting a job is not high on your list of things you want to do.

Being a permanent student and a leach on the system does not win you any friends either.

But continue to get Linux programmers not to use C# after all its a programming language that forces type-safe and secure and reliable programming. Certainly something that FOSS would not like to see. IE, software quality and software reuse.

Its in FOSS’s interest to create second rate code full of errors and “bugs” this ensures sustained “service halo” support services for your $$ revinue. As you have to give your software away for free, as no one is willing to pay for it.

But keep forcing mono out, all the vast majority of coders will learn it, and use it, they will get the IT jobs and the Linux crowd will be stuck deep in the 1970′s.

“Linux the OS for historians”.

Mabey they know you.

As for Mono, if its so scary for you, why are you using C or C++ im sure you are able to write patent infringing code with those languages too.

I think mabey evern TOMTOM used C then they violated the FAT patent from microsoft.

So are you going to strip out all C code from FOSS too ??

Ofcourse not, that would be stupid right, no one in their right mind would be silly enough to think that a programming language is a problem.

Its like you saying what im writing here is copyright because im suing “words” to say things.

Words or C or C# are simply languages a way of organising idea’s or instructions.

But Roy, if people dont take any notice of you, that would be because they take the effort to fact check you’re claims. As soon as they do that they see you for what you are.

Like RMS, its a shame your waisting your life and time of this cause.

as if there are not more important things you could be doing with your time and your brain.

We predict that Microsoft intends to use the .Net platform and Mono for the following:
1. Promote FUD against the GNU/Linux system and community
2. Control the GNU/Linux vendors and developers
3. Hinder the GNU/Linux system.

I will not substantiate my claims in this post because the purpose of this website is to keep an eye on Microsoft and Novell. You could try reading the other news stories in this if you are interested in learning more.

And if it’s purely what is included by default, then surely the solution is a lot more simple. You’d be better off:

a) changing distro
b) making your own fork of Debian and not including Mono
c) using Debian, but simply removing what is in their by default.

We are of course a minority arguing here. The reason for including apps like Tomboy, or Gnome-Do are simply because they are better than a non-Mono equivalent. When a better non-Mono app comes along, Tomboy etc… will not doubt get dropped.

This decision is based on what the majority of users would want, and is done so, so that people adopt and use that distro.

You’re forgetting that Linux is about choice. Choice to develop an app in whatever language you want. Choice to pick whatever distro you like. Choice to add/remove the things you do and don’t like.

Saying, we discourage people to use Mono, and don’t want it included by default just means you should be making your own distro.

If people are writing good apps in Mono, that can’t really be helped. And if they are better than other applications built not using Mono, then it’s no surprise people are adopting them.

We can’t dictate to people that they can’t write apps in Mono. That would be very anti open source, and work against the community.

Linux is about choice, hence all the different distro’s. Some include Mono, others don’t. I don’t care to be honest, it’s the apps I concerned with. Whatever is best, and helps me work.

a) Linux Mint has a plethora of apps to fall back on.
b) Mono goes underground, and I run Gnome-Do illegally.

I use Launchy at work, but prefer and find Gnome-Do better.

I’m not a KDE person, so Katapult doesn’t fit.

And Deskbar isn’t quite the same as Gnome-Do. I actually use both Gnome-Do and the Deskbar already but for different things.

It’s the only app in Mint that needs Mono (I think), but it’s the best of it’s type.