Techrights logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Friday, August 09, 2019

Join us now at the IRC channel.

schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lgEPByMoUgnhVbjJAAug 09 02:08
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 02:08
schestowitz"plane crash rates will heighten as deforestation increases. Less trees, less oxygen, less combustion, less thrust."Aug 09 02:08
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lgHlGaKe40oEsaCS8Aug 09 02:08
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell- ( status 404 @ https://pleroma.site/notice/9lgHlGaKe40oEsaCS8 )Aug 09 02:08
schestowitz"Aug 09 02:08
schestowitzwho cares?Aug 09 02:08
schestowitzmost ppl. in floss community have no-moneyAug 09 02:08
schestowitz& crypto is overAug 09 02:08
schestowitznot a bad post , just not my thing.Aug 09 02:08
schestowitz"Aug 09 02:08
schestowitzFOSS people have  more money than others, they have better jobsAug 09 02:08
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lgwm4Vn7BczCkxgEiAug 09 02:09
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 02:09
schestowitz" Could be Missouri"Aug 09 02:09
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lgx2WIbZP981EdYIKAug 09 02:09
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 02:09
schestowitz"Aug 09 02:09
schestowitzWhy running a spell checker is not equivalent to proof reading.Aug 09 02:09
schestowitzOrAug 09 02:09
schestowitzIt's exciting to be in Kansas CityAug 09 02:09
schestowitz"Aug 09 02:09
schestowitz> found the moderator of the puppy forum (who is actually pretty hands off by any standard) presenting an article he found about why unmoderated forums always descend into fascism a la gab etc.Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> i took the "liberty" of ripping it apart.Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> hmm...Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> [quote]Why Unmoderated Online Forums Always Degenerate Into Fascism[/quote]Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> [b]title is false premise (circular argument)[/b] and we are off to a great start!Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> [quote]..."Online disinhibition" is the term psychologists use to explain why anonymous online masses behave in a manner that is crueler and more hostile than interactions we experience in real life.[/quote]Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> more evidence needed-- online discussion documents entire exchanges from all over the world.Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> take random people who have never met in person from all over the world, write down EVERY WORD they say when thrown together to freely and openly debate contentious topics (strict muslims in iran debating abortion and gay marriage with liberals from boston) and then tell me that people are worse online.Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> until then its apples and oranges!Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> you might even say that [b]contention is the price of free speech[/b] (but thats crazy talk.)Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> [quote]As I've written before, the lack of accountability, relative ease of anonymity, and the indirect nature of online communication combine to create an oft-toxic atmosphere online.[/quote]Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> "oft toxic" or "inevitably fascist?" i know this is pedantic, but this is a bait-and-switch (to something easier to prove than the conclusion) and "oft toxic" happens offline too... if i were really pedantic (wikipedia level pedantry) i would say weasel words...Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> [quote]one person attempting to rebut another person's point is much more likely to exhibit hostility, to swear at or dehumanize them.[/quote]Aug 09 02:53
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> my theory about this, based on years of arguing with people online and offline, and noting similarities in both people being reasonable and unreasonable, is that we arent talking about "online" vs "offline" but narcissists vs. non-narcissists. and yes-- narcissists love the internet: (chapter 2-- very short) [url]https://archive.org/details/figosdev_users_Fsf2/page/n3[/url]Aug 09 02:54
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-archive.org | fsf_2.0_first_draft_odt_pdf : figosdev : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet ArchiveAug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> the problem is, most people dont understand narcissists, so they just talk about "trolls" and "toxic" culture instead. which is sort of like talking about [b]cluster-b personality disorders[/b] in crayon.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> ive got a lot more to say about that, but ill spare you for the moment at least.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> basically:Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> 1. narcissists are toxicAug 09 02:54
schestowitz> 2. there are more narcissistic encounters onlineAug 09 02:54
schestowitz> 3. people are relatively anonymous onlineAug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> 2 and 3 overlap for a reason, but we put the blame on 3 when 2 explains all this a lot better.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> (and yes, this is something ive spent years thinking about and discussing.)Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> [quote]In essence, it is hard to remember an ideological opponent's humanity online, as you cannot see nor perceive them - they are merely words on a screen.[/quote]Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> common enough theory, i dont think its bunk, but i think its leaned on too heavily.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> [b]compare this to the coriolis effect-- its a real thing affecting the direction water swirls down a drain[/b], but people think it explains the way it flushes down a toilet when [b]the position of the jets[/b] is a much greater factor.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> [quote]Those with larger online followings[/quote]Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> read more about clinical narcissists and this line will make perfect sense--Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> [quote]or who post about politics, or who are women or another minority group, suffer more hatred and attacks from strangers...[/quote]Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> this as well. narcissists (toxic people) like to target people who they perceive as weak, because each act of bullying makes them feel (temporarily) stronger.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> but we are attacking anonymity and lack of moderation, when the truth is that stronger moderation and "real name" policies just hand over more weapons for narcissists to abuse.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> that would be a long tiring debate, but ill just put that out there-- since ive seen it countless times.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> [quote]...you or I could navigate to 4chan right now and post whatever we want, without having to create an account, give up an email address or post a profile pic.[/quote]Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> this is sort of an argument that mark zuckerbergs sister made to justify their real names policy-- which led to a criminal amount of surveillance and sale/processing of personal data-- all for profit and control.Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> this argument isnt new, but people have made countless rebuttals of (randi) zuckerbergs thesis. so theres little need to list the reasons here (do you want this to be longer? even i dont.)Aug 09 02:54
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]Yet over time, those who have a distaste for edgy or white supremacist or Nazi posts will vacate the premises, leaving only those who can stomach it...[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> thats true of a lot of things (not just nazis and their bs) that are protected by the first amendment (and while this is an international forum, scotus ruled AGAINST hate speech being a notion compatible with the first amendment-- in other words there is no such thing, as a category of unprotected speech that is)Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> i dont have a problem with a general policy against racism on TOPICAL boards that have nothing to do with racism. in fact i left [b]this very forum[/b] years ago because i thought the community was doing too little about racism.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> what changed? i decided my standards for forums had moved from reasonable to "sjw" and i got over it. another thing that happened is this forum got less racist. you can still find blatant examples that are more recent (past couple years) but theyre more rare.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> im actually not against forums being moderated. for a small forum that can scale. for social media monopolies (and as corporations take over free software) this question becomes more urgent-- because reasonable levels of moderation dont scale, and ai systems like facebooks increase (faulty) bias, rather than mitigate it.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> hence this discussion.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]...This should be regarded as some kind of online psychology law[, so that we can stop misunderstanding what "free speech" is[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> YES!Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> by all means, lets make a faulty vague (bumper-sticker-like) notion from pop psychology into a law, so we can increase censorship online. thats a GREAT idea. /sorryforsarcasmAug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> plus i got you, you meant "law" like that stupid thing godwin had (which he had to backpedal on after i spent years criticising it, because its really "godwins argument-from-fallacy" and it had the effect of stifling legitimate debate.)Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> but theyre trying to make it into real laws (legal things) so...Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]and we can stop letting the right[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> +1 to the first person that raised their hand about making this about the right, like the left doesnt have its own toxic figure and groups.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]claim that term as though they actually understand what it means.[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> you wanna debate the meaning of free speech? bring it (a library. youll need it.)Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]unmoderated and unregulated online spaces will devolve in this manner should give libertarians pause.[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> why? its not like they dont understand the outcomes.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> [quote]Anyone who thinks a lack of regulation will result only in good things[/quote]Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> is the biggest straw man in the thread. this is about a fictional group of people that cant tell the difference between "good" and "only good."Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> ...you might even say that [b]contention is the price of free speech[/b] -- but thats crazy talk.Aug 09 02:55
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:56
schestowitz> (let me know if theres something i didnt cover...)Aug 09 02:56
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:56
schestowitz> *mic drop*Aug 09 02:56
schestowitz> Aug 09 02:56
schestowitz> ^ i never do that, ever, i just felt like it this time. (its very silly/stupid but w/e i was enjoying myself.)Aug 09 02:56
schestowitzMaybe you can type that into article form with some background?Aug 09 02:56
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhH2pTSHAriZY8XxoAug 09 04:53
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:53
schestowitz"definitely. Way back machine, torrent packages, DAT. I always wanted to subscribe to LJ but am living below the poverty line. The richest in this country are through drugs, extortion, accounting, airbnb and stock trading. Only so many can fit in those fields."Aug 09 04:53
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhH9aP0i7Gxr6HPhwAug 09 04:53
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:53
schestowitz"still would allow browsing naturally."Aug 09 04:53
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhHCC6rUF0rNj2CuWAug 09 04:53
schestowitz"multiple solutions are good."Aug 09 04:53
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:54
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhHSxFI0K6sCjy6nQAug 09 04:54
schestowitz" that time when potus offlined scientific data, what was the method?"Aug 09 04:54
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:54
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhIDsiGfqlbl0tpKqAug 09 04:54
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:54
schestowitz"how big is it? I have a server (of sorts) unlimited memory but limited in processing & bandwidth! If that can help?"Aug 09 04:54
schestowitzneed a copyright waiver firstAug 09 04:54
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9lhIHeQdizhkc6S3LUAug 09 04:55
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaAug 09 04:55
schestowitz"time for a new Linux Foundation!"Aug 09 04:55
schestowitz>> I'll start looking into making a helper program for QuiteRSS this week.Aug 09 06:30
schestowitz>Aug 09 06:30
schestowitz> That would be grand! And worthy for many years to come.Aug 09 06:30
schestowitzOk.  I have a proof of concept prototype attached.  Say which sites youAug 09 06:30
schestowitzwant to test it with and I'll add those.  Right now it processes theAug 09 06:30
schestowitzfollowing:Aug 09 06:30
schestowitz$ grep -B 1 xpath_title ./web-scraper.pl \Aug 09 06:30
schestowitz| sed -e '/site/!d;s/.* eq .//;s/.. .*$//;'Aug 09 06:30
schestowitz9to5google.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitz9to5mac.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitzaan.orgAug 09 06:30
schestowitzaf.reuters.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitzapnews.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitzappleinsider.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitzar.alAug 09 06:30
schestowitzquillette.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitztechrights.orgAug 09 06:30
schestowitztorrentfreak.comAug 09 06:30
schestowitz127.0.0.1Aug 09 06:30
schestowitzIt can be launched from QuiteRSS if configured (F8) as the external browser:Aug 09 06:31
schestowitz/some/path/web-scraper.pl -x xterm -b chromiumAug 09 06:31
schestowitzThe -x option currently takes one of two choices: xterm orAug 09 06:31
schestowitzxfce4-terminal.  It is used to display the results instead of xmessage.Aug 09 06:31
schestowitz Say if another terminal or method is better.  This option is needed.Aug 09 06:31
schestowitzThe -b option currently takes on of two choices: chromium or firefox.Aug 09 06:31
schestowitzThat is used to load the web page for review, but it is not needed.Aug 09 06:31
schestowitz~/web-scraper.pl -x xterm -b firefox http://techrights.orgAug 09 06:31
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | Techrights | People's rights in the digital age | Plutocracy threatened by freedom, democracy, privacy & civil rightsAug 09 06:31
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/RonaldVermeij/status/1159702976367419393Aug 09 18:25
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@RonaldVermeij: @schestowitz https://t.co/JP5tK2EBa9Aug 09 18:25
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@RonaldVermeij: @schestowitz https://t.co/JP5tK2EBa9Aug 09 18:25
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/pceebee23/status/1159715484381536256Aug 09 18:25
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@pceebee23: @schestowitz take your Windows and stick them where the sun doesn't shine....Aug 09 18:25
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kevinleversee/status/1159742221991550976Aug 09 18:26
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@kevinleversee: @schestowitz I'm making Bacon CheeseBurgers for Dinner. YUMAug 09 18:26
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kevinleversee/status/1159742858468839425Aug 09 18:26
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@kevinleversee: @schestowitz its not just the ocean, china is literally blowing up reefs and raping south east Asia. Philippine Re… https://t.co/bXiXzwicd5Aug 09 18:26
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@kevinleversee: @schestowitz its not just the ocean, china is literally blowing up reefs and raping south east Asia. Philippine Re… https://t.co/bXiXzwicd5Aug 09 18:26
schestowitz"its not just the ocean, china is literally blowing up reefs and raping south east Asia.  Philippine Reefs are being dynamited and worse."Aug 09 18:26
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jeffreyneillong/status/1159747991919456256Aug 09 18:27
schestowitz"And they choose demonstratably known propaganda outlets, while silencing any viewpoint that may point this out or challenge the narrative. It will be Orwell’s “Ministry Of Truth”"Aug 09 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jeffreyneillong: @schestowitz And they choose demonstratably known propaganda outlets, while silencing any viewpoint that may point… https://t.co/yHMediVkTjAug 09 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jeffreyneillong: @schestowitz And they choose demonstratably known propaganda outlets, while silencing any viewpoint that may point… https://t.co/yHMediVkTjAug 09 18:27
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/brianfagioli/status/1159752906142310403Aug 09 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@brianfagioli: @schestowitz 🤭Aug 09 18:27
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Falkvinge/status/1159753272573530113Aug 09 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Falkvinge: @schestowitz I am retired since just over a year ago; I no longer work with PIA. Btw, my legal name is Rick Falkvi… https://t.co/PhJMJ7oysDAug 09 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Falkvinge: @schestowitz I am retired since just over a year ago; I no longer work with PIA. Btw, my legal name is Rick Falkvi… https://t.co/PhJMJ7oysDAug 09 18:27
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:27
schestowitzI am retired since just over a year ago; I no longer work with PIA.Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzBtw, my legal name is Rick Falkvinge. I have had previous legal names, much in the same manner as some people change their names when they marry.Aug 09 18:28
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Falkvinge/status/1159753272573530113Aug 09 18:28
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzI am retired since just over a year ago; I no longer work with PIA.Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzBtw, my legal name is Rick Falkvinge. I have had previous legal names, much in the same manner as some people change their names when they marry.Aug 09 18:28
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzDo you have contacts at PIA whom you can discuss this with?Aug 09 18:28
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/StewJohnson3/status/1159770500345634816Aug 09 18:29
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@StewJohnson3: @Falkvinge @schestowitz If you marry a robot whore does she changer her name? Now that you can purchase robot whor… https://t.co/JggntDrTB2Aug 09 18:29
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@StewJohnson3: @Falkvinge @schestowitz If you marry a robot whore does she changer her name? Now that you can purchase robot whor… https://t.co/JggntDrTB2Aug 09 18:29
schestowitzIf you marry a robot whore does she changer her name?  Now that you can purchase robot whores with a given identity, it makes me wonder.  #RobotWhores""Aug 09 18:29
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/brianfagioli/status/1159753668306059265Aug 09 18:30
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@brianfagioli: @schestowitz I honestly never write for traffic. This was an honest take, and I promise you I won’t get rich from it.Aug 09 18:30
schestowitzIt was detached from factsAug 09 18:31
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/StewJohnson3/status/1159770500345634816Aug 09 18:31
schestowitz"If you marry a robot whore does she changer her name?  Now that you can purchase robot whores with a given identity, it makes me wonder.  #RobotWhores"Aug 09 18:31
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/nomibwave/status/1159860878470029313Aug 09 18:32
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:32
schestowitzpsychic_wave Retweeted AnonymousNomadAug 09 18:32
schestowitzcc @schestowitz @ageis @ggreenwald @johnpilger @markcurtis30 @prisonplanet @jakpost @bandila @SkyNewsAust @kimdotcom @yahoo @hkpoliceforce @RT_com @PeterSchiff @mike_maloneyAug 09 18:32
schestowitz"Aug 09 18:32
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@nomibwave: cc @schestowitz @ageis @ggreenwald @johnpilger @markcurtis30 @prisonplanet @jakpost @bandila @SkyNewsAust… https://t.co/ga6VlY1LFXAug 09 18:32
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@nomibwave: cc @schestowitz @ageis @ggreenwald @johnpilger @markcurtis30 @prisonplanet @jakpost @bandila @SkyNewsAust… https://t.co/ga6VlY1LFXAug 09 18:32
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jrobertson/status/1159868228450918402Aug 09 18:32
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jrobertson: If you learned this the hard way, I feel sorry for you. https://t.co/rly2PjJ203Aug 09 18:32
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@schestowitz: "Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which de… https://t.co/SkryebTM4pAug 09 18:32
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/RedOpsJames/status/1159901003342319616Aug 09 20:15
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@RedOpsJames: Great summary of improvements made in TLS 1.3 and their applicability to the real world. @RedHat did some significa… https://t.co/HH8T7LBQWkAug 09 20:15
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@RedOpsJames: Great summary of improvements made in TLS 1.3 and their applicability to the real world. @RedHat did some significa… https://t.co/HH8T7LBQWkAug 09 20:15
schestowitz"Aug 09 20:15
schestowitzJames Cassell Retweeted Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊)Aug 09 20:15
schestowitzGreat summary of improvements made in TLS 1.3 and their applicability to the real world. @RedHat did some significant testing and related fixes to ensure it all works smoothly and that legacy things don't break.James Cassell added,Aug 09 20:15
schestowitz"Aug 09 20:15

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!