●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, August 14, 2022 ●● ● Aug 14 [00:46] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [00:48] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [01:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [01:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [01:12] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 14 [02:16] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [02:24] *Despatche has quit (Quit: Read error: Connection reset by deer) ● Aug 14 [04:35] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [04:36] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [04:39] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) ● Aug 14 [05:40] Techrights-sec2 a file descriptor leak is one of the serious type of bugs which should be [05:40] Techrights-sec2 fixed rather than making a work-around. Should we still keep shadow and PAM? [05:41] schestowitz-TR running manually now [05:41] schestowitz-TR i removed shadow and pam the other day [05:41] schestowitz-TR do you know how cronning it can be done? [05:58] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 14 [06:52] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [06:53] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [06:56] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [06:59] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [07:18] Techrights-sec2 have you filed a bug report with the IPFS tool's project? [07:18] Techrights-sec2 Fixing the leak in the progam would be the long term solution. [07:18] Techrights-sec2 Filing bug reports is part of the cost of doing business. [07:19] schestowitz-TR there is no leaks I kno0w of in ipfs [07:19] schestowitz-TR the issue is in handling of ulimit -n [07:21] Techrights-sec2 upgraded current packages, there were many: [07:21] Techrights-sec2 # apk upgrade [07:21] Techrights-sec2 the file descriptor leak ? [07:24] Techrights-sec2 well, the system does have doas pre-installed, that could probably be used [07:24] Techrights-sec2 by the script to launch ulimit [07:25] schestowitz-TR at some point I thought of sudoers but thought it would be a strange way to tackle the issue [07:25] schestowitz-TR but whetever works... [07:39] Techrights-sec2 unfortunately that sets it for the whole system, /etc/security/limits.conf [07:39] Techrights-sec2 would allow raising the allowed number of open files for the one account [07:39] Techrights-sec2 while leaving the others alone. [07:39] Techrights-sec2 What was the ticket number on the bug report? [07:40] schestowitz-TR I don't think any particular open bug was being alluded to [07:40] schestowitz-TR just a design flaws [07:40] schestowitz-TR *flaw [07:40] Techrights-sec2 a design flaw is a bug [07:46] Techrights-sec2 [07:46] Techrights-sec2 a design flaw is a bug; I'd think that we could leave IPFS where it is for now [07:46] Techrights-sec2 until we find out the result of the bug report. Can you file one? I am [07:46] Techrights-sec2 quite unfamiliar with IPFS at all. [07:47] schestowitz-TR it is microsoft shithub [07:47] schestowitz-TR I could, indefinitely, just run the job manually [07:47] schestowitz-TR it's just a step backwards because in debian this was so simple ● Aug 14 [08:18] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:39] Techrights-sec2 I am [08:39] Techrights-sec2 quite unfamiliar with IPFS at all. I don't have an account there IIRC [08:39] Techrights-sec2 yes [08:39] Techrights-sec2 Debian is afflicted with PAM. We could put PAM back but I'm not sure if/how [08:39] Techrights-sec2 this version of cron works with PAM. I did take a guess in /etc/pam.d/cron [08:39] Techrights-sec2 But that would mean afflicting the system with PAM by adding shadow linux-pam shadow-login again [08:39] Techrights-sec2 https://rustipfs.com/ ? [08:39] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-rustipfs.com | Rust IPFS [08:39] Techrights-sec2 over on tm-new, should we start to spider the old HTTP pages onto the new [08:39] Techrights-sec2 system using wget? [08:39] Techrights-sec2 it'll take a bit of trial and error [08:40] schestowitz-TR at first, only nodes after 27/6/22 [08:40] schestowitz-TR the url schemes makes it easy [08:40] schestowitz-TR tdoay I sunday,. I built a lot of sleep "storage" already, so let's migrate those pages over today (slow news), then set up redirections, amybe then revert back to the [08:40] schestowitz-TR good backup, seeing that the new site is OK [08:40] schestowitz-TR later change the rss url with a redirection [08:42] schestowitz http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/166500 is June 26th [08:42] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.tuxmachines.org | Motion Detection with PIR and Raspberry PI: HC-SR501 wiring and Python Code | Tux Machines [08:42] schestowitz THat's before we had issues [08:43] schestowitz so we need to wget every node from 166500 to 168322 [08:48] schestowitz-TR whether we also grab images etc. is another matter, it may depend on whether they are linked with relative or absolute URLs [08:48] schestowitz-TR but that's not the most crucial thing [08:48] schestowitz-TR then, having wget'ed them all, maybe directly from tuxmachines-new, ee.g. [08:48] schestowitz-TR /var/www/..../old/ .... [08:48] schestowitz-TR wget http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/166500 [08:48] schestowitz-TR we set up redirection from http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/166500 [08:48] schestowitz-TR to news.tuxmachines.org/old/166500 [08:48] schestowitz-TR and on and on until 168322 [08:48] schestowitz-TR that's a lot or redirection, but they can be removed in the future [08:48] schestowitz-TR even with wildcard [08:48] schestowitz-TR that would at least make a FULL backup of all "content" added since the point in time we revert back to [08:54] Techrights-sec2 --convert-links can help with that along with --page-requisites [08:54] Techrights-sec2 only a single pattern is needed for that [08:54] Techrights-sec2 Ok there is a tmux session running wget under the account 'tuxmachines' on [08:54] Techrights-sec2 tm-new [08:54] Techrights-sec2 yes the failure log is in /home/tuxmachines/wget-*.log [08:54] Techrights-sec2 by date [08:54] Techrights-sec2 she can post, that's not a problem, the mirroring will take a long time [08:55] schestowitz-TR Mirroring the pages (I told rianne to stop posting new nodes) [08:55] schestowitz-TR should not take long, you can do 1000 pages an hour [08:55] schestowitz-TR then check logs to see all moved OK [08:55] schestowitz-TR then we make another last DB dump, just in case [08:55] schestowitz-TR then squeeze in redirection for those pages [08:55] schestowitz-TR then revert back to old DB dump (June) [08:55] schestowitz-TR but wait, don't mirror everything [08:55] schestowitz-TR just nodes 166500 onwards [08:55] schestowitz-TR because the old site is complex [08:55] schestowitz-TR so the cutoff atm is june 27th [08:55] schestowitz-TR i intentially refrained from posting anything "special" like Blog Posts since then [08:55] schestowitz-TR or uploading any new images [08:56] Techrights-sec2 just the /nodes hierarchy is being harvested, wget is not so complex that [08:56] Techrights-sec2 it can take calculations into account so unnecessary material can be culled [08:56] Techrights-sec2 afterwards ● Aug 14 [09:01] schestowitz-TR I know the site very well [09:01] schestowitz-TR the right approach would be, [09:01] schestowitz-TR get only nodes 166500 [09:01] schestowitz-TR onwards [09:01] schestowitz-TR this is easily done in bash, with loop index i after /node/ [09:01] schestowitz-TR that can then go under the html dir under "old" or similar [09:01] schestowitz-TR "old" sounds bad, maybe "legacy" [09:01] schestowitz-TR then we need to make sure we're satisfied with how the pages appear and that links in them work [09:01] schestowitz-TR then set redirection for them [09:01] schestowitz-TR on the old server [09:01] schestowitz-TR that would be a solid first step and the most major step [09:01] schestowitz-TR anything after that is easy-peasy [09:01] schestowitz-TR I had this planned for months, I know exactly how to do that without turning away visitors [09:01] schestowitz-TR I know you worry about very old pages, we can deal with them a lot later [09:01] schestowitz-TR \also, load would tape off the moment all "new" (past 2 months' pages) go to new [09:05] Techrights-sec2 "old" is just a working name it can be renamed once the download is complete [09:05] Techrights-sec2 it might even be removed so that ./node can be moved up a level [09:05] Techrights-sec2 maybe aim for 1 September as the change over date? [09:05] schestowitz-TR yeah [09:05] schestowitz-TR I was just thinking, I want to make local and remote DB backup before reverting back [09:05] schestowitz-TR I already made a remote (at home) copy of the DB to revery back to [09:05] schestowitz-TR just so that we can always roll back any errors made [09:05] schestowitz-TR sunday is a good day for such a task [09:09] schestowitz-TR the new site generally works OK [09:09] schestowitz-TR the only difference is, if swapped over it'll get a higher load [09:09] schestowitz-TR one thing I noticed is, when the rss file gets updates for about a second or two it can be in a funny stats, as it is being written to rather than a temp file [09:09] schestowitz-TR and then cp temp live-rss-feed.xml [09:09] schestowitz-TR aside from that, things work well enough and it's a lot faster [09:09] schestowitz-TR marius has access already [09:09] schestowitz-TR the other posters mostyly promote their own stuff, which is sometimes spam, howtos, or stuff I could just post myself anyway [09:09] schestowitz-TR (the other day I had to remove from the front page some spamnil-style piece of junk from a firm that has an account there) [09:15] Techrights-sec2 ack [09:15] Techrights-sec2 should the RSS be done with a temp file followed by a swap out ? [09:20] schestowitz-TR i forgot the formal technical name for it [09:20] schestowitz-TR but the idea is, only swap one rss file for another version when both are valid [09:20] schestowitz-TR otherwise, while polling you can sometimes get a file that's open and being written into [09:20] schestowitz-TR tuxmachines does not depend much on gulag [09:20] schestowitz-TR but a loyal base of followers since decades past [09:20] schestowitz-TR I am in tmux session "copy" while seems idle [09:20] schestowitz-TR where are you fetching new nodes? [09:20] schestowitz-TR if all URLs in the dlownloaded pages are made ABSOLUTE, then it'll look like a perfect copy [09:20] schestowitz-TR which is what we want [09:20] schestowitz-TR no need to download any images then, just the raw html, with absolute links in images, pages etc. [09:21] Techrights-sec2 ok [09:21] Techrights-sec2 su -c 'tmux attach-session -t wget' -l tuxmachines [09:21] Techrights-sec2 su -c 'tmux new-session -s copy -t wget' -l tuxmachines [09:21] Techrights-sec2 su -c 'tmux attach-session -t copy' -l tuxmachines [09:26] schestowitz-TR looking under webroot/old [09:26] schestowitz-TR it seems like you download the whole site [09:26] schestowitz-TR and the urls are sometimes relative, e.g. /files/logo.png [09:26] schestowitz-TR at this stage we just need to download about 1800 pages, whose url is predictable (+1 increment) [09:26] schestowitz-TR with absolute url everywhere) [09:30] Techrights-sec2 still experimenting [09:36] schestowitz-TR thanks, good one [09:36] schestowitz-TR at the point where the new server has the new nodes showing as identical to the originals (absolute links in images too) [09:36] schestowitz-TR we can add redirections from old (dynamic) to new (static) for these pages [09:36] schestowitz-TR those nodes are sementically simple, by intention [09:36] schestowitz-TR (node: for nodes of the past 1.5 weeks we'll have two copies, such that the new server has them in the new CMS and also mirrors of the same [09:36] schestowitz-TR in the Drupal site)s [09:36] schestowitz-TR search engines might see that as "duplicate" content, hence better to minimise and port things over [09:36] schestowitz-TR the above-mentioned rss thing only happens if I check for rss updates at the same time I add a node, so it's not a burning issue [09:48] schestowitz-TR deiced to carry on posting, but only in new [09:48] schestowitz-TR but will not take it "read-only" until after rolling back/reverting back to jun 27 [09:52] Techrights-sec2 ack [09:53] schestowitz-TR seconds ago added the first "new-only" node [09:53] schestowitz-TR the "old" directory should eventually contain just pages, no JS or images [09:53] Techrights-sec2 ack [09:53] schestowitz-TR as those can be absolute url references to www and news [09:53] schestowitz-TR in due course the db will only bear thew load for requests of nodes 1...166500 ● Aug 14 [10:12] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [10:12] schestowitz-TR marius has just added a node to "old" [10:12] schestowitz-TR #168323 [10:12] schestowitz-TR hopefully the last [10:12] schestowitz-TR I'lll copy it over the new just in case [10:12] Techrights-sec2 ok [10:13] schestowitz-TR oh! miracle! my rss feed for howtoforge works again [10:13] schestowitz-TR after like 6 months those idiotcs realise clownflaring it was idiotic [10:13] schestowitz-TR harm was done [10:14] Techrights-sec2 :) [10:32] schestowitz-TR after today we may be able to turn off all the crontabs for DB backup of TM, local and remote [10:32] schestowitz-TR as new nodes go into sqlite and the static html files [10:32] schestowitz-TR added toay's howtos in new only, first such batch [10:32] schestowitz-TR updating my irc scripts (links only to new site) [10:32] Techrights-sec2 ok [10:36] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [10:37] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [10:37] Techrights-sec2 refresh-site-from-db.sh now uses temporary files [10:38] schestowitz-TR lovely! checking code, I did see you had changed something... [10:38] schestowitz-TR I am testing the irc bits at the moment [10:39] schestowitz-TR Oh, I see, you not do the same for front page and gemini [10:39] schestowitz-TR that's great [10:42] Techrights-sec2 refresh-site-from-db.sh now uses temporary files [10:42] Techrights-sec2 faster that way [10:42] Techrights-sec2 subjectively speaking [10:47] schestowitz-TR sorry to be rushing these last-min changes like this [10:47] schestowitz-TR I had 4 "extra" hours of sleep and it's a slow news day [10:47] schestowitz-TR so perfect day to progress to next phase [10:47] schestowitz-TR tbh, even if we don't finish the wget and apsche redirect thing, I could just redirect the rss feed alone, for now... [10:47] schestowitz-TR one concern I had was, can all rss readers deal with it (afaik, apache deals with the 301 transparenlly) [10:47] schestowitz-TR the second thing is, if we change from rss to atom/xml, can rss readers cope? I think so) [10:47] schestowitz-TR heck, why not change the url now and add the redirect? might as well, no? [10:52] Techrights-sec2 It'd be safer to wait until next Sunday or so, after we can ensure that [10:52] Techrights-sec2 wget did its job correctly. [10:52] Techrights-sec2 Perhaps the new Atom feed could be used from the old site, but it would [10:52] Techrights-sec2 point to the URLs which are on the test site and not the production site. [10:52] Techrights-sec2 It's getting closer to being 'ready' though. [10:53] schestowitz-TR i agree entirely. [10:53] schestowitz-TR ok, am making changes here to 3 more files [10:53] schestowitz-TR when alll tests ok, will push to git, then try redirecting atom [10:54] schestowitz-TR then test with various vaalidatora and rss readers [10:54] schestowitz-TR just to catch any issues [10:54] schestowitz-TR will redirect to http, not https, for now [10:54] schestowitz-TR to avoid the CA panic [10:54] schestowitz-TR at reader level anyway [10:54] schestowitz-TR I know atom may link to https [10:54] Techrights-sec2 ack ● Aug 14 [11:01] schestowitz-TR changes pushed to git [11:01] schestowitz-TR experimenting with 301 rediurect now [11:01] schestowitz-TR given that old site won't get more node additions, I will also redirect root later, but root alone [11:33] *Despatche (~desp@u3xy9z2ifjzci.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:37] schestowitz-TR added two redirections [11:37] schestowitz-TR and on the logs they will leave trailing parts after "?" [11:37] schestowitz-TR so you can see and know where the redir comes from [11:37] schestowitz-TR on to testing [11:40] schestowitz roy@vonick:~$ wget http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/feed [11:40] schestowitz --2022-08-14 11:39:41-- http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/feed [11:40] schestowitz Resolving www.tuxmachines.org (www.tuxmachines.org)... 23.161.112.115 [11:40] schestowitz Connecting to www.tuxmachines.org (www.tuxmachines.org)|23.161.112.115|:80... connected. [11:40] schestowitz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently [11:40] schestowitz Location: http://news.tuxmachines.org/feed.xml?q=node/feed [following] [11:40] schestowitz --2022-08-14 11:39:41-- http://news.tuxmachines.org/feed.xml?q=node/feed [11:40] schestowitz Resolving news.tuxmachines.org (news.tuxmachines.org)... 204.197.160.2 [11:40] schestowitz Connecting to news.tuxmachines.org (news.tuxmachines.org)|204.197.160.2|:80... connected. [11:40] schestowitz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK [11:40] schestowitz Length: 37025 (36K) [application/xml] [11:40] schestowitz Saving to: feed [11:40] schestowitz feed 100%[==============================================================================================>] 36.16K 173KB/s in 0.2s [11:40] schestowitz 2022-08-14 11:39:42 (173 KB/s) - feed saved [37025/37025] [11:40] schestowitz roy@vonick:~$ wget http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/feed/ [11:40] schestowitz --2022-08-14 11:39:58-- http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/feed/ [11:40] schestowitz Resolving www.tuxmachines.org (www.tuxmachines.org)... 23.161.112.115 [11:40] schestowitz Connecting to www.tuxmachines.org (www.tuxmachines.org)|23.161.112.115|:80... connected. [11:40] schestowitz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 301 Moved Permanently [11:40] schestowitz Location: http://news.tuxmachines.org/feed.xml?q=node/feed/ [following] [11:40] schestowitz --2022-08-14 11:39:59-- http://news.tuxmachines.org/feed.xml?q=node/feed/ [11:40] schestowitz Resolving news.tuxmachines.org (news.tuxmachines.org)... 204.197.160.2 [11:40] schestowitz Connecting to news.tuxmachines.org (news.tuxmachines.org)|204.197.160.2|:80... connected. [11:40] schestowitz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK [11:40] schestowitz Length: 37025 (36K) [application/xml] [11:40] schestowitz Saving to: index.html.1 [11:41] schestowitz index.html.1 100%[==============================================================================================>] 36.16K 181KB/s in 0.2s [11:41] schestowitz 2022-08-14 11:39:59 (181 KB/s) - index.html.1 saved [37025/37025] [11:43] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:44] schestowitz-TR 301 works OK, in both casesirc bots are all set, the posting workflow is now simplified [11:44] schestowitz-TR I'll test to see if some readers might have issues [11:44] schestowitz-TR rss feeds >> social control media account [11:44] Techrights-sec2 ack [11:55] schestowitz quiterss copes ok [11:55] schestowitz as I hoped akregator copes ok with the redirection [11:55] schestowitz its build-in browser struggles to load the pages though, but we don't pew JS or anything [11:55] schestowitz checking in konqeror and rekonq out of curioustity ● Aug 14 [12:02] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell [12:03] *roy (~quassel@x6gnqyt8r46u8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:03] *roy (~quassel@freenode-7tfl0p.am6e.nqgd.t29qgt.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [12:03] *roy has quit (OperServ (Session limit exceeded)) [12:03] *libertybox has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:04] *libertybox (~schestowitz_log@x6gnqyt8r46u8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:04] *libertybox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:04] *schestowitz-TR has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:04] *Techrights-sec has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:04] *Techrights-sec2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:04] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@x6gnqyt8r46u8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:04] *Techrights-sec2 has quit (Z-lined) [12:04] *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [12:04] roy they should cope ok, if they support proper HTTP for fetchig the Atom or RSS [12:04] roy feed [12:05] *libertybox_ (~schestowitz_log@x6gnqyt8r46u8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:06] *Techrights-sec (~quassel@x6gnqyt8r46u8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:06] *roy is now known as Techrights-sec2 [12:07] *Techrights-sec is now known as ts2 [12:10] schestowitz-TR2 bbl [12:10] schestowitz-TR2 cycling [12:11] chunky bbl [12:11] chunky crying [12:12] Techrights-sec2 ack [12:12] schestowitz-TR2 haha [12:12] schestowitz-TR2 chunky: no woman no cycling [12:12] chunky ;D [12:12] chunky DOWN WITH WOMEN UP WITH GNU! [12:20] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [12:34] *Now talking on #boycottnovell [12:34] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell [12:34] *schestowitz (~schestowi@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [13:47] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [14:15] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 14 [15:00] Techrights-sec2 they should cope ok, if they support proper HTTP for fetchig the Atom or RSS [15:00] Techrights-sec2 feed [15:00] Techrights-sec2 ack [15:01] Techrights-sec2 wget seems to have finished with /node [15:01] Techrights-sec2 FINISHED --2022-08-14 10:56:32-- [15:01] Techrights-sec2 Total wall clock time: 2h 20m 52s [15:01] Techrights-sec2 Downloaded: 3893 files, 96M in 0.9s (102 MB/s) [15:01] Techrights-sec2 3893 files seems like it might be a small subset of what's supposed to be there [15:02] Techrights-sec2 PeppermintOS torrent ratio is now > 7.7 [15:02] Techrights-sec2 recent and old versions of Linux Mint remain at 1.8 [15:02] Techrights-sec2 these are just anecdotal observations though [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 properly back now [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 chose a different canal today, so it was more interesting [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 the sites seem to be OK [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 regarding wget [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 there are over 170k pages in the site [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 and the structute is complex, there are interconnected CMSs [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 what I suggets is just doing a loop over /i/ [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 than using i for /node/$i [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 with all objects in it as absoluire, domain and all [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 there /i/ is 160,something [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 later they serve as backup, following resotre from backup, followed by read-only [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 wget does not need to do anything recursively and if it gets a page every 2 seconds, 30 per minutes, it can get everything in less than an hour [15:11] schestowitz-TR2 brb, catching up [15:12] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:26] Techrights-sec2 what would be that start value for $i and the end value for it? [15:26] schestowitz-TR2 checking [15:26] schestowitz-TR2 166500 [15:26] schestowitz-TR2 until [15:26] schestowitz-TR2 168324 [15:26] Techrights-sec2 that's just a few thousand [15:28] schestowitz-TR2 those are nodes that can be copies losslessly and would later be removed from "old" [15:28] schestowitz-TR2 we'll use another strategy for the older archives at a later point, for now the old site will still serve them [15:28] Techrights-sec2 checking [15:28] Techrights-sec2 ok [15:32] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [15:32] schestowitz-TR2 all the hard parts are already well behind us [15:32] schestowitz-TR2 and it went more smoothly than I had imagined [15:32] schestowitz-TR2 we can 'innovate' on top of it now that we're not boxed inside drupal's loop [15:32] schestowitz-TR2 like push notifications and such [15:32] schestowitz-TR2 we already support http, http over tls, and gemini with tls, topic only for new updates (not public api though), same for git updates [15:33] Techrights-sec2 running [15:33] Techrights-sec2 excellent [15:33] Techrights-sec2 locked keys could be used to allow editing without shell access [15:37] schestowitz-TR2 there is also irc, with a bot or two there, but that's not new [15:37] schestowitz-TR2 we must think beyond www (net+dns OK) to stay relevant as more people adopt GNU/Linux and need news, forums etc. [15:37] schestowitz-TR2 sometimes at work we still get calls from random people needing "Linux" support [15:37] schestowitz-TR2 a lot of webforums were destroyed by spam, spinders, trolls... [15:37] schestowitz-TR2 ubuntu is shilling clown, not offering any community forums [15:38] schestowitz-TR2 clown= you pay rent for a PRIOPRIETARY system and then they give you "commercial support" for the proprietary crap only they can supoport(monopolies beget bad servic [15:38] schestowitz-TR2 e) [15:39] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-rmogvn.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [15:39] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:40] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:41] Techrights-sec2 ack [15:41] Techrights-sec2 ack [15:41] Techrights-sec2 their 'ask ubuntu' was kind of a way to close down the forums [15:41] Techrights-sec2 the Forums were much of the community activity and kept the buzz going [15:41] Techrights-sec2 they should have had a community manager as liaison between the community [15:41] Techrights-sec2 and the company. Instead they had an a-hole spinmeister who tried what he could [15:41] Techrights-sec2 to boss the community around from on high and rub everyone the wrong way [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 openrespect [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 not free [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 open [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 "RESPECT MICROSOFT"=Zemlin [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 LF= we started as Linux, not we're openwashing everhything, even vaccines [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 Canononical=we make a better distro (Debian), not we offer many services, Ubuntu and WSL are among the "products" [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 tl;dr: cannopt trust corporations to manage communitiers (same with fedora and "open"suse... what's left of those) [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 now, SUSE="WE CAN GOOD ON CLOWN.. oh, you want SAP??" [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 3~ [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 in some sense we are back to 1980s or 1990s [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 the corporations have too much control [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 so grassroots efforts emerge, looking for collective control or emancipation [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 github is a hornet's nest, it's like a cage calling on the communities to enter [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 before they shut it [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 linuxtoday is trying to make a shilling by running like 15 webspam plugs... IBM+Microsoft site [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 it's run not by an eidotr but a strulling company [15:46] schestowitz-TR2 if thjey don;t monetise it, they will shuit it down [15:50] Techrights-sec2 LF is shilling more too, and Brodie Roberston is peddling what they are selling. [15:50] Techrights-sec2 Or has peddled at least in his recent video. [15:50] Techrights-sec2 Certifications are scams. Some of his are ok, and it is interesting to get [15:50] Techrights-sec2 his generation's perspective, but lately he has been off the mark and even [15:50] Techrights-sec2 outright wrong. :( [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 he invests (financially) in his videos [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 time too [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 but the content isn't all that great [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 did you see the video I posted last night of zemlin? [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 it's just 20 seconds [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 good for a laugh [15:51] Techrights-sec2 No, I did read the accompanying text though. [15:51] Techrights-sec2 gemini.techrights.org/2022/08/13/proprietary-keynote/ ? [15:52] schestowitz-TR2 I should have added a link, replicating the url for the video [15:52] schestowitz-TR2 mea culpa [15:52] schestowitz-TR2 I only remember when it's webm and automated [15:53] schestowitz-TR2 rant: just deleted another 20 odd stories on michael west [15:53] schestowitz-TR2 filter on aap, delet all [15:53] schestowitz-TR2 I don't are what ap australia says [15:53] schestowitz-TR2 if I wanted ap, I'd sub to ap [15:53] schestowitz-TR2 /s/are/care/ [15:55] Techrights-sec2 ack ● Aug 14 [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 "jim, do you reject linux because it's not reliable enough for you" [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 [him goes on, messing up a keynote WITHOUT Linux] [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 I saw that a lot with Wionndows [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 it got so bad people came with prior expectation it "might not work' [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 and needed fallbacks [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 or borrowed another person's PC with usb stick [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 and wasted minutes, destroying the whole talk/schedule/plan [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 delaying or shortening food breaks [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 turns out windows monopoculture/monopoly is not assurance of smooth operations [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 security-wise, quite the contrary [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 in uni they would have the audacity to dedicate one machine too talks and ask us in advance to send [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 "our powerpoint presentation" [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 (almost 20 years ago) [16:00] schestowitz-TR2 so they also try to impose on you what software to work with and use to present [16:01] schestowitz-TR2 failing to see how inqdequate that is [16:01] schestowitz-TR2 what next? imposing speaking tempo? voice? race? use of hands? [16:01] Techrights-sec2 it is the opposite of smooth operations due to not only the flaws between [16:01] Techrights-sec2 versions, which are used to upsell, but also the flaws communicating with [16:01] Techrights-sec2 others even when using the /exact/ same versions [16:12] schestowitz-TR2 I used HTMl for my presentations [16:12] schestowitz-TR2 later some ODF [16:12] schestowitz-TR2 and latex [16:12] schestowitz-TR2 i.e. present from pdf [16:12] schestowitz-TR2 it's easy to export these to html too [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 sorry, I messed upo [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 did you manage to read what I said about drm and rootkits [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 and how because it's steam, then they're "OK" nopw? [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 After I mentioned how bloatesidered better than MSIE-onyl; or Windows-only [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 you also started writing something yourself [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 anyway, it's the whole "at-lkeast-it's-not-microsoftism" [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 and how now when we use a lot of bad things we just assume that Gulag with Summer of Labour is beyond criticism [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 and using its browsers to run things as a mere runtime is OK [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 webchats, presentation, conferences etc,. [16:23] schestowitz-TR2 ] [16:23] Techrights-sec2 almost [16:23] Techrights-sec2 oh well [16:23] Techrights-sec2 Google is no longer much better. Yes, it's better but only barely, and [16:23] Techrights-sec2 furthermore the direction it is continuing to head is no good. [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 I pressed ctrl+c for copy [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 forgot the context [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 but I think you at least read that [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 not much lost, except you started typing something when I pressed thr wrong keys [16:36] Techrights-sec2 np [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 each time this happens it becomes less probable it'll happen again [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 due to the undesirable mess that follows [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 been months since I last made this error [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 but like I said, I don't think anything was lost [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 from mind or unread [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 ytalk is still good all in all [16:38] schestowitz-TR2 more real-time than irc [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 I plan to tell marius that he cannot add images yet [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 and that it is work in progress [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 as for me, I have the ability to wget images into /Features [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 as a temporary measure [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 I will teach rianne how to add images [16:41] schestowitz-TR2 that directory has 182 images now [16:50] Techrights-sec2 the image part needs to be tested / finalized before the whole thing goes [16:50] Techrights-sec2 into production or it is ok to leave it off, too [16:52] schestowitz-TR2 tux machines did not have images until around 2014 when there were hotlinked [16:52] schestowitz-TR2 it is not good practice, it exposed to a lot of sites who reads TM,but for now we can focus on text and links [16:52] schestowitz-TR2 inotify+wget would still mean a command line step [16:52] schestowitz-TR2 for me, I just have an open terminal in the right dir [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 anshul fromn geeks for geeks posts very low s/r these days "interviews" [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 irrelevant indiuan history texts [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 likely "lifted". for seo.. [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 and some promotional stuff [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 soemtimes a few useful things, but lost in the sea [16:56] schestowitz-TR2 same problem with many other sites [16:56] Techrights-sec2 sftp is another means to load the image but regardless, the work flow for images [16:56] Techrights-sec2 needs a lot of review [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 the images are probably the least important thing [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 rss is key... and presentastion [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 it's better tan the old site [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 btw, gemini hit counter passed 2000 [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 it's being adopted more over time [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 first of its "kind" in that space ● Aug 14 [17:06] schestowitz-TR2 "TikTok has established itself as one of the top online platforms for U.S. teens, while the share of teens who use Facebook has fallen sharply" https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022/ [17:06] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.pewresearch.org | Teens, Social Media and Technology 2022 | Pew Research Center [17:07] Techrights-sec2 top platform for indoctrination of said population [17:08] schestowitz-TR2 yes, you can guess under which categ i've just put that under [17:08] schestowitz-TR2 under... under :/ [17:08] schestowitz-TR2 pew=taking gates bribes [17:08] schestowitz-TR2 but there's more to it than gates [17:15] Techrights-sec2 ack [17:19] schestowitz-TR2 the web is rapidly becoming a tonnage of s** [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 sorry if that seems repetitive [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 I get loads of "diploma mill" spam in "linux" news [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 very few sites still try to report new stuff [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 phoronix has few comments [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 so I assume it lost a lot of following [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 and the remaining "aggregators" rake in a lot of worthless junk [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 it's not a problem of FINDING [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 it's a problem of material NOT EXISTING [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 10 years aog there was so much you had to be picky what to link to [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 15 years ago there was a sea of Linux coverage in "tech" media [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 not some chinese editor who had contributed to Microsoft sites and says evil "nerds" try to force her to use Linux [17:20] schestowitz-TR2 enderle is still writing some trash in datamation [17:20] Techrights-sec2 they usually only trot out enderle for a reason [17:20] Techrights-sec2 or two reasons, one to push a particular talking point, [17:20] Techrights-sec2 two to distract from something big [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 dfs said today (showed link) microsofters start floating windows 12 trash [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 only last summer they had a fake "vista 111" 'leak' [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 to distract from two bombshells [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 of course nobody adopted sta 11 [17:22] Techrights-sec2 vista12 [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 *vista [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 and 12 months later they do "12" gossip? [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 maybe a distraction from layoffs and shutdowns [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 but people won't care [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 the boy cried wold too many times [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 *wold [17:22] schestowitz-TR2 *wolf ● Aug 14 [18:53] *schestowitz-TR2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [18:53] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [19:47] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [19:50] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [20:13] schestowitz-TR2 so far the site is holding up fine with the extra traffic [20:13] schestowitz-TR2 I also find the workflow faster than with the old site [20:13] schestowitz-TR2 and all stuff is locally hosted, no Gulag Translate in the page [20:13] Techrights-sec2 good [20:13] Techrights-sec2 that's excellent news [20:13] schestowitz-TR2 much faster [20:14] schestowitz-TR2 if later on there are bumps on the way, that's OK [20:14] schestowitz-TR2 we can overcome these [20:14] schestowitz-TR2 the old site's DB is not likely to change much at this stage [20:14] schestowitz-TR2 when we have a working copy of those ~1800 nodes we can test redirects, then revert back to better DB prior to [20:14] schestowitz-TR2 the loss of random old pages [20:18] schestowitz-TR2 the move relieves a TON of energy resources, too [20:18] schestowitz-TR2 no need to hurry anything at this point, but if people come to the site NOT via RSS feeds it'll seem like no upates are posted, so the next stage [20:18] schestowitz-TR2 will be redirecting the front page too, preferably AFTER the restore from Jne backu [20:18] schestowitz-TR2 *June backup [20:23] Techrights-sec2 ack [20:25] schestowitz-TR2 hmmm... [20:25] schestowitz-TR2 wait [20:25] schestowitz-TR2 I shoukld post a notice in top of old site to say, use this new address and this rss feed.. [20:25] schestowitz-TR2 or shoiuld I redirect it salready? thoughts? [20:25] schestowitz-TR2 for now only rss subscribers come to the new addresses [20:26] Techrights-sec2 for now. eventually the old address should point to the new system [20:26] Techrights-sec2 the address news.tuxmachines.org ought not to be promoted since it will only [20:26] Techrights-sec2 lead to confusion later on; maybe describe it as a preview and that the [20:26] Techrights-sec2 site will move in the near future> [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 I am going to write something, make it "sticky" [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 no need to mention the RSS feed [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 as even the old RSS address already works again [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 just say, this site has no more new stories, go to this address for latest storie [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 s [20:29] Techrights-sec2 not phrased like that though, instead mention that the new stories are at the [20:29] Techrights-sec2 new site, but again that just complicates things it is better to run the two [20:29] Techrights-sec2 in parallel until the switch over; you can make the switchover now if you [20:29] Techrights-sec2 think it is sufficiently feature complete and bug free but then no new changes [20:29] Techrights-sec2 can be made to it. [20:31] schestowitz-TR2 we posted in both for about 10 days [20:31] schestowitz-TR2 the new one works OK [20:31] schestowitz-TR2 assuming you have wget going and will soon have a mirror for new nodes, I think we're at a good point (Sunday) to make the switch [20:31] schestowitz-TR2 even if the DB broke down or something, we have the static html pages [20:31] Techrights-sec2 wget is running afaik, [20:31] Techrights-sec2 I am logged out already and can check its progress next time; [20:31] Techrights-sec2 ok [20:31] Techrights-sec2 I guess the domain should then point at the new site and the old one [20:31] Techrights-sec2 renamed to old.tuxmachines.org [20:33] schestowitz-TR2 I have a better idea for backward compat of URLs [20:33] schestowitz-TR2 but that comes much later [20:33] schestowitz-TR2 inc. some more "introductory" and less busy front page [20:33] schestowitz-TR2 I will not redirect yet, just make a note that for any NEW story, go [20:33] schestowitz-TR2 it'll keep things simple enough and not confuse readers [20:35] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@vtwhcftahhqwg.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [20:36] Techrights-sec2 ok [20:36] Techrights-sec2 I'd say that if the stories have been discontinued there, then the domain should [20:36] Techrights-sec2 point to the new site then; If it is too early to point the DNS at the [20:36] Techrights-sec2 new system then it is too early to cease posting in parallel [20:36] Techrights-sec2 especially if we want to add the option to allow graphics in the stories. [20:36] Techrights-sec2 tldr; the name tuxmachines.org should always point to the active site [20:36] Techrights-sec2 not a redirection; if people intend to go to tuxmachines.org but end up instead [20:36] Techrights-sec2 at news.tuxmachines.org, that is going to cause at least some confusion among [20:36] Techrights-sec2 many visitors and their bookmarks and such [20:37] schestowitz-TR2 you are right, for the front page (only) I should set up a redirecton [20:37] schestowitz-TR2 all the other addresses remain fully intact [20:37] schestowitz-TR2 while we work behind the scenes on things [20:37] schestowitz-TR2 if people are redirected to a site with more recent stories, I think the confusion is less than seeing no new stories since lunchtime [20:37] schestowitz-TR2 the site name is the same [20:40] Techrights-sec2 it is the hostname which is relevant; if the addition of stories to the one [20:40] Techrights-sec2 system has ceased then it should not have the name tuxmachines.org [20:40] Techrights-sec2 only the active system should have that hostname; therefore if it is time [20:40] Techrights-sec2 to make the switch then it is time to make the change in DNS; conversely if [20:40] Techrights-sec2 it is not time to make the switch then the posts ought to be continued in the [20:40] Techrights-sec2 old system [20:40] Techrights-sec2 ok then please continue to post in parallel [20:40] Techrights-sec2 I think that is quite important until the hostname is transferred [20:40] schestowitz-TR2 DNS changes would not work as that would break like 169k URLs [20:40] schestowitz-TR2 for now we leave DNS unchanged [20:42] Techrights-sec2 also a post or two about the layout and backend changing soon might be useful [20:42] Techrights-sec2 so that people have a bit of warning [20:44] schestowitz-TR2 OK, you have convinced me not to redirect anyhing yet, but I will post a clear message to say we're moving to [20:44] schestowitz-TR2 and this is where new stories are [20:44] schestowitz-TR2 at least visitors are forewarded [20:44] schestowitz-TR2 I will choose some nice suitable graphics for that [20:45] Techrights-sec2 thanks! [20:45] Techrights-sec2 about the wget scraping, if wget could not find the nodes how are they [20:45] Techrights-sec2 connected by links in anyway to the main page, even in a number of steps? [20:45] Techrights-sec2 right now wget is running queries against a range of numbers and not spidering [20:45] Techrights-sec2 spidering only found a few thousand nodes; if the rest of the nodes are not [20:45] Techrights-sec2 accessible to wget, then they are not accessible to the world or the search [20:45] Techrights-sec2 engines [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 quick answer: [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 they have long been indexed, in the same address, by search engines [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 they are accessible by next... next.... next [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 but remember most are just excepts and link to originals [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 so the "value" of the site is the quick new picks [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 the stuff like reviews is indexed separataely in pages [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 same for original blog posts [20:48] schestowitz-TR2 we prioritise original conteent [sic] [20:50] Techrights-sec2 I don't see the path from the main page though, as far as I can tell they [20:50] Techrights-sec2 are orphaned nodes [20:50] Techrights-sec2 if next ... next ... next worked, then the wget spidering should have workd :/ [20:50] Techrights-sec2 yes the original blog posts are quite important too [20:50] Techrights-sec2 perhaps more so than the news nodes [20:51] schestowitz http://tuxmachines.org/node?quicktabs_topics=2#quicktabs-topics [20:51] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-tuxmachines.org | Tux Machines | Do you waddle the waddle? ● Aug 14 [22:15] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [22:36] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 14 [23:07] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 > http://tuxmachines.org/node?quicktabs_topics=2#quicktabs-topics [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 ^ monthly archives [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 marius has just posted his first node adter I had sent him a video explaining the whole process [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 is there a shell script warapped for the tm-update... perl file that updates existing nodes? [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 at the moment a manual run of refresh...() is needed for the changes to take effect in the pages, [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 not just the DB [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 asking because marius needed to amend what he had posted and I've not yet explained the process [23:29] schestowitz-TR2 in full. rianne also lacks experience with that process.