●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, September 22, 2024 ●● ● Sep 22 [02:09] *lightbringer has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:12] *MinceR` (~lb@iyhwsi75rjzuq.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [02:13] *MinceR` is now known as lightbringer [02:47] *lightbringer has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:47] *MinceR` (~lb@iyhwsi75rjzuq.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [02:47] *MinceR` is now known as lightbringer ● Sep 22 [03:42] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [03:46] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 22 [05:06] *lightbringer has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [05:08] *MinceR` (~lb@iyhwsi75rjzuq.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [05:35] *MinceR` has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [05:38] *MinceR` (~lb@iyhwsi75rjzuq.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [05:57] *amarsh04 has quit (*.net *.split) [05:57] *logbackup has quit (*.net *.split) [05:57] *lightbringer has quit (*.net *.split) [05:57] *Guest14678 has quit (*.net *.split) [05:57] *schestowitz-TR2 has quit (*.net *.split) [05:57] *Techrights-sec2 has quit (*.net *.split) [05:58] *logbackup (~quassel@freenode-50vmi7.ldvb.0amm.hij1op.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [05:58] *amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-310501.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [05:58] *Guest14678 (~Guest1467@freenode-drv.aab.2jssns.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [05:58] *Techrights-sec2 (~quassel@freenode-50vmi7.ldvb.0amm.hij1op.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [05:58] *lightbringer (mincer@freenode/user/lightbringer) has joined #boycottnovell [05:58] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 22 [06:43] *parsifal (~parsifal@6thegygyadsu4.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [06:44] *parsifal has quit (Quit: Leaving) ● Sep 22 [12:03] *MinceR` is now known as lightbringer ● Sep 22 [13:48] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@gcs5ikfy64ubg.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 22 [17:29] *psydroid2 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) ● Sep 22 [19:00] *Guest14678 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [19:01] *Versatile has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [19:44] *Vengeance_ (~Vengeance@freenode-drv.aab.2jssns.IP) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 22 [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> fwiw here are some questions for xxxx, he has not responded to past [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > emails so perhaps he can get them via you this time? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Hi, Roy if you don't mind forwarding my responses I'd be most [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > grateful, thankyou. Sorry for if I've missed people's questions. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] I already relay what can/should, trying to omit names if so they prefer :-) [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 1. What is the goal of the article? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > It's to get readers to re-examine their idea about rights and think [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > more about responsibilities. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > (( A strong feeling that we need to do some painful examination of [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > where "software freedom" stalled as a social/political movement. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Daniel Cantarin's painful rebuke to Alexandre Oliva was a [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > spark. Daniel's objections are legitimate, yet they are also [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > self-pitying and angry apologetic that fails to ask the salient [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > technical and political questions. He buys the official "security" [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > narrative hook, line and sinker, apparently accepting violation of his [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > rights as a given, inevitable and unstoppable fact of the world. Then [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > he turns this into a position that necessity makes morals optional, [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > which I experienced as a sad sort of defeatism. Because ironically, [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Daniel is speaking from a position of responsibility, as a family [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > provider, carer and breadwinner, tormented by poverty and [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > bureaucracy. He is acting in the most moral way while trashing morals [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > as a "luxury". So at the same time he fails to see the responsibility [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > we each have as a technology user to all our fellow beings. )) [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > So the aim of my essay is to ask why we are talking past one another, [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > trying to win the "more oppressed than thou" race. I think the answer [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > is that "rights" are a weak formulation of social relations and that [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > if we try to reposition around "responsibility" it will have more [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > power. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 2. How have the changes to university financing contributed to the [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > current mess? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Read Prof. Wendy Brown. I'm no expert and she puts the complex shift [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > from corporatism to global financialism far more eloquently than I [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > could possibly. See "Forum 22: The End of the Corporate University and [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > What We Are Now" youtube:Z5EWYohECRQ [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > In a nutshell global money made everything that is [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > moral/ethical/public unprofitable. One may still have morals, and it's [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > still possible to do humane research or help people, but you will pay [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > for it dearly. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> And how is it possible that science and the arts have taken a [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > distant second place to economic profit? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > I don't quite understand that question. Clearly money /has/ displaced [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > human values, and in a way it doesn't matter "how" or "why". The [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > question of "how?" is if there is any political, social or [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > psychological remedy - because clearly it is pathological to the [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > species. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 3. What are the analyses of the reasons for how we got into the [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > current mess? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Again, I'll defer to other smarter authors, Wendy Brown, Benjamin [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Ginsberg, Noam Chomsky and John Taylor Gatto. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Synthesising all their views as if I were an LLM ... Acadmia has been [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > infiltrated and destroyed by vain, shallow, selfish impostors who are [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > complete cowards. They pushed out all the truly intelligent but less [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > aggressive people. Nobody cares, because (eveyone hates eggheads and [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > real geeks anyway) universities are now an "industry" that makes a lot [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > of money selling dreams and limiting class mobility. Soon an enormous [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > cultural and intellectual debt is going to get called-in that will [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > collapse Western society which has no innovation or creativity plan-B [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > to fall back on. "AI" is the last desperate bet of Peter-Pan [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Capitalism to keep living in Never-Never land. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 4. Who benefits from the current mess? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Nobody. It's a complete fucking lose-lose mess. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > In the short term maybe about 100 financiers. But nobody actually [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > worth mentioning. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 5. Why are IT magazines completely silent about these problems? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > I don't know much about IT magazines. My friend Daniel James once [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > wrote prolifically for some of them and has given me the impression [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > they are saussage facories just like any other area of journalism that [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > needs to sell advertisement. I also think all tech media is still [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > stuck in "chirpy optimism mode". I mean, I'm an optimist, but that's [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > not the same as living in abject denial. It's like they're obliged to [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > repeat the uncritical mantra about "enormous benefits to society". [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > So, for me they're irrelevant because they're the last place on Earth [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > that would ever print "depressing cruft" from someone like me. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> 6. What are possible routes out of the current mess? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Personally I'm setting up my own university. It's a long and hard [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > process that's going to be a lifelong work. If I can educate just one [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > student the proper way it will have been worth it. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Already I've experienced the pressures and peverse incentives that [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > shape the current shitshow. For example: employers couldn't give a [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > crap about knowledge, creativity, innovation... they just want monkeys [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > to wind the handles. Finding students whose primary motive isn't just [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > getting an entry-level tech worker job is a challenge. The only people [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > who value knowledge are a dwindling minority of intellectuals and [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > philosophers. Besides, students don't really want knowledge [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > either. They want a certificate that says they are OK. It's all about [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > assuaging deep inner insecurity that's been planted in their minds [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > since infant school. If you do challenge their knowledge they fall [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > apart so fast bystanders get by the shrapnel. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] >> ^ also possible topics ? [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > Yes I think all of these points are wonderful topics to explore [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > further. Some of the conclusions are a bit depressing though. More [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > than the question of "can humans move beyond empty consumerism?" is [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > "can we change /in time/" becasue the clock is clearly ticking now. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > At some point we won't be able to raise an educate a smart-enough [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] > generation in the remaining time window for survival. [20:49] schestowitz[TR2] Relayed verbatim to the 'provocateur'. Thank you, very insightful.