●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Saturday, April 24, 2021 ●● ● Apr 24 [05:12] schestowitz__
  • [05:12] schestowitz__
    University Responds to Ban On Linux Contributions
    [05:12] schestowitz__
    [05:12] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell- ( status 404 @ https://www.tomshardware.com/news/university-of-minnesota-responds-linux-ban">University ) [05:12] schestowitz__

    Heimdahl and Terveen also said the CS&E department will "investigate the research method and the process by which this research method was approved, determine appropriate remedial action, and safeguard against future issues, if needed."

    [05:12] schestowitz__

    Their plan is to "report our findings back to the community as soon as practical." The question, then, is whether or not any remedial action will be enough for the University of Minnesota to be welcomed back into the Linux community.

    • [05:12] schestowitz__
  • [05:12] schestowitz__
    Creating a Website on Raspberry Pi
    [05:12] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell- ( status 404 @ https://christitus.com/pi-website/">Creating ) [05:12] schestowitz__
    [05:12] schestowitz__

    This is perfect for setting up your first website and learning not only administering a wordpress site, but learning Linux. You will need a Raspberry Pi, a couple hours, and a computer to download the image on. The Raspberry Pi (RPI) is a perfect device for learning these things.

    • [05:14] schestowitz__
  • [05:14] schestowitz__
    Hyperbola Linux Review: Systemd-Free Arch With Linux-libre Kernel
    [05:14] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-itsfoss.com | Insights into Why Hyperbola GNU/Linux is Turning into Hyperbola BSD - It's FOSS [05:14] schestowitz__
    [05:14] schestowitz__

    In the last month of 2019, the Hyperbola project took a major decision of ditching Linux in favor of OpenBSD. We also had a chat with Hyperbola co-founder Andre Silva, who detailed the reason for dropping Hyperbola OS and starting a new HyperbolaBSD.

    [05:14] schestowitz__

    HyperbolaBSD is still under development and its alpha release will be ready by September 2021 for initial testing. The current Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre v0.3.1 Milky Way will be supported until the legacy Linux-libre kernel reaches the end of life in 2022.

    [05:14] schestowitz__

    I thought of giving it a try before it goes away and switches to BSD completely.

    • [05:28] schestowitz__ > Hello Roy, [05:29] schestowitz__ > [05:29] schestowitz__ >> I liked your article in https://eliasrudberg.se/rms/ [05:29] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-eliasrudberg.se | Comment on the open letter to "remove RMS", based on the GNU Kind Communications Guidelines [05:29] schestowitz__ >> [05:29] schestowitz__ >> Would you permit us to reprint in Techrights with attribution and [05:29] schestowitz__ >> link to the original for broader audience? [05:29] schestowitz__ > Yes, that sounds good. [05:29] schestowitz__ > [05:29] schestowitz__ > Thanks! [05:29] schestowitz__ That's excellent, thanks. [05:29] schestowitz__ Regards and happy hacking, ● Apr 24 [06:49] schestowitz__ x https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4185031 [06:49] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.taiwannews.com.tw | Microsoft promotes cloud datacenters with virtual tour | Taiwan News | 2021/04/23 [06:49] schestowitz__ # spam ● Apr 24 [09:08] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [09:08] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [09:12] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [09:13] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell ● Apr 24 [10:00] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [10:00] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [10:01] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [10:02] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [10:29] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:29] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [10:50] Techrights-sec ihttps://nitter.cc/davelab6/status/1385804989147271176#m [10:50] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nitter.cc | Dave Crossland (@davelab6): "I did get a laugh that your accuse me of gossip mongering down thread of recommending that techrights guy's video I especially liked the bit where he admitted he had no idea who Tom Marble is... Oh well" | nitter [10:53] Techrights-sec https://nitter.cc/thomas_lord/status/1385629315715407872#m [10:53] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nitter.cc | Thomas Lord (@thomas_lord): "Every god damn day I grow more and more deeply convinced that humanity is going to self destruct over the next 10-30 years and boy oh boy do you fail to disappoint on that count with this endless, baseless, ever-shifting, interference with GNU and FSF." | nitter [10:57] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [10:57] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [10:57] schestowitz__ " [10:57] schestowitz__ Abby community has levels of participation and influence. Keynoting is one signal. [10:57] schestowitz__ 2 [10:57] schestowitz__ 0 [10:57] schestowitz__ 0 [10:57] schestowitz__ 0 [10:57] schestowitz__ Alfred M. Szmidt [10:57] schestowitz__ @amszmidt [10:57] schestowitz__ 20h [10:57] schestowitz__ Bullshit. [10:57] schestowitz__ 1 [10:57] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ Dave Crossland [10:58] schestowitz__ @davelab6 [10:58] schestowitz__ 20h [10:58] schestowitz__ There's nothing to distinguish someone who likes the org from a paid up member, from a 10 year member, from an accepted speaker, from a keynote invitee? C'mon [10:58] schestowitz__ 2 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:58] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:58] schestowitz__ 17h [10:58] schestowitz__ Yeah Michael Tiemann sucked up to the org for a long while too before attacking it. It's not exactly an original thing. Things went to shit around the time Sullivan took over. [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:58] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:58] schestowitz__ 17h [10:58] schestowitz__ One difference between what we do and what, for example, Sullivan or Kuhn do: We want our lives as hackers back. We want the social activity of hacking for fun, friendship, and gosh, sometimes even community benefit. [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:58] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:58] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:58] schestowitz__ 17h [10:58] schestowitz__ We don't want and don't make excuses for people like your employer, Dave, and we don't pretend that when we have to work for them that we're advancing software freedom. [10:58] schestowitz__ 3 [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:58] schestowitz__ 0 [10:58] schestowitz__ 2 [10:58] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:58] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:58] schestowitz__ 17h [10:58] schestowitz__ We don't want careers like Sullivan and Kuhn seem to be almost entirely about. We aren't poverty pimps and we aren't pimps for software slavery perpetually ineffective solutionism. [10:58] schestowitz__ 2 [10:58] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 0 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:59] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:59] schestowitz__ 17h [10:59] schestowitz__ What I saw happen from the 1980s to today is for GNU to accomplish most of its goals but fall short on documentation and teaching -- and for GNU and FSF to become swamped by people who like them on their resumes and speaker bios. [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 0 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:59] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:59] schestowitz__ 17h [10:59] schestowitz__ It's completely mental. Batshit insane. There is a triumverate of world historic crisis in public health, economy, and ecology all of which cry out for software freedom interventions and you shits sit around with your thumbs up your asses asking if RMS drives away females. [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 0 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:59] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:59] schestowitz__ 17h [10:59] schestowitz__ It's like you sat down and talked amongst yourselves asking "what is the most disruptive, laziest, most irrelevant thing I could do while still claiming to 'contribute' to the badge I put on my resume? I know, I'll join the decades old bullshit about RMS as somehow subhuman." [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 0 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:59] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:59] schestowitz__ 17h [10:59] schestowitz__ Replying to @thomas_lord @davelab6 @amszmidt @seanodiggity [10:59] schestowitz__ Every god damn day I grow more and more deeply convinced that humanity is going to self destruct over the next 10-30 years and boy oh boy do you fail to disappoint on that count with this endless, baseless, ever-shifting, interference with GNU and FSF. [10:59] schestowitz__ 4:19 PM Apr 23, 2021 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ 0 [10:59] schestowitz__ 1 [10:59] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [10:59] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [10:59] schestowitz__ 17h [10:59] schestowitz__ Replying to @thomas_lord @davelab6 @amszmidt @seanodiggity ● Apr 24 [11:00] schestowitz__ All you've done, Dave, all you've done here is fly around and insinuate yourself into various conversations and gossip monger -- all in the singular direction of trying to drag down the FSF, to spread divisiveness, to place it in service of the world's largest ever cop org. [11:00] schestowitz__ 2 [11:00] schestowitz__ 1 [11:00] schestowitz__ 0 [11:00] schestowitz__ 2 [11:00] schestowitz__ Thomas Lord [11:00] schestowitz__ @thomas_lord [11:00] schestowitz__ 17h [11:00] schestowitz__ Fascists and pigs colonized the lisp hacker world, literally federal intel cops and outright enthusiastic fascists. That's what started the free software movement. That's what it is about. It's not about your goddamn resume and it sure as shit isn't about building spyware. [11:00] schestowitz__ 1 [11:00] schestowitz__ 1 [11:00] schestowitz__ 0 [11:00] schestowitz__ 2 [11:00] schestowitz__ more replies [11:00] schestowitz__ " [11:05] schestowitz__ a few days ago desmog started showing up as www.desmog.com; I could either do grep on it or changes made at the script itself... [11:06] schestowitz__ in Daily Links that is (combined) [11:08] Techrights-sec Yes, I thought I set that in rss-since-scraper.pl [11:08] Techrights-sec I will double check. [11:08] schestowitz__ thanks [11:18] Techrights-sec It /should/ have been catching and working with the new hostname already. [11:18] Techrights-sec daily.feeds was updated last back in march, but it is the feed itself [11:18] Techrights-sec which points to the new hostname [11:18] Techrights-sec According to Git, I made the update to rss-since-scraper.pl on Apr 22. [11:18] Techrights-sec So if the changes have not kicked in by today, I need to look into why. [11:19] schestowitz__ I have uploads for RSS videos on the way. One ended up 300MB in size. I really don't understand why the sizes vary so wildly. Mono and stuff aren't a factor, it's something in the compression and frame rate that I fail to grasp. [11:20] schestowitz__ while uploading, which can take hours more, I also published another old RMS vide [11:20] schestowitz__ o [11:22] Techrights-sec Fixed processing of desmog.com. However, the XPath parser is not quite [11:22] Techrights-sec up to handling it properly so there is a crappy work-around tacked onto [11:22] Techrights-sec the end for that site's processing [11:24] Techrights-sec I'm not so familiar with audio but can look at the file in question. [11:24] Techrights-sec Can you post the link? [11:25] schestowitz__ still uploading: http://techrights.org/videos/why-rss.webm [11:25] *TechrightsBN has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [11:25] *TechrightsBN (~b0t@techrights.org) has joined #boycottnovell [11:25] TechrightsBN Hello World! I'm TechrightsBN running phIRCe v0.75 [11:36] schestowitz__ https://stallmansupport.org/updates.html [11:36] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-stallmansupport.org | In Support of Richard Stallman - Updates [11:36] schestowitz__ " [11:36] schestowitz__ April 18, 2021. Added in the home page: [11:36] schestowitz__ A link to the defamation meme [11:36] schestowitz__ A notice to mention that people are adding stallmansupport.org to their email signatures, social media profiles, etc. [11:36] schestowitz__ " ● Apr 24 [12:43] *rianne_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [12:43] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell ● Apr 24 [13:13] schestowitz__ can you crop out 4:00-5:20 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNRCQTCzbCo&t=41s [13:13] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.youtube.com | Deb Nicholson on OIN and Software Patents - YouTube [13:18] schestowitz__ " [13:18] schestowitz__ rms-on-employment.transcript.txt [13:18] schestowitz__ however the discussion seems completely irrelevant to FOSS, despit me being [13:18] schestowitz__ in agreement with what he says there [13:18] schestowitz__ " [13:47] Techrights-sec ok, I'll take a look. [13:47] Techrights-sec I'm not quite sure how to download it at the moment. [13:47] schestowitz__ I thought that old script still worked? [13:48] Techrights-sec I've done a complete rearrangement since then. :\ [13:48] schestowitz__ I can do it manually, but would need to learn the ffmpeg interfaces etc. Do you still have the script? In Git maybe? [13:56] Techrights-sec I've got it here now, jsut need to adjust a bit. [13:57] schestowitz__ thanks, I think there's lots of news stuff (since last year) we could use and shed light on, but it takes time finding it... [13:57] Techrights-sec ffmpeg is a bit imprecise since it goes by second and not by frame. [13:58] schestowitz__ I remember the old workflow, wherein we'd use email, there would be big lag therefore, and I'd check over file manager (Dolphin) to see if the file is there. I guess the script can also automate uploads to the /video directory ● Apr 24 [14:02] *asusbox2 (~rianne@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:287c:6f01:18d:b809) has joined #boycottnovell [14:03] *asusbox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [14:03] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [14:16] *rianne (~rianne@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:287c:6f01:18d:b809) has joined #boycottnovell [14:46] Techrights-sec there's too much adjusting for full automation despite knowing the [14:46] Techrights-sec start - stop timings [14:46] schestowitz__ we don't yet know how many times we'll use this, but I suppose if weekly, then we can even make a list of tasks to crap and then bulk-process them? ● Apr 24 [15:02] Techrights-sec The main thing is remembering the options for ffmpeg and the the steps are, [15:02] Techrights-sec quickly find the right start time, then make a few runs to find the right end [15:02] Techrights-sec time [15:02] Techrights-sec that's it. It takes time but not much attention. [15:02] schestowitz__ that's also the tough thing about video editing, always taking more time than one would first assume [15:44] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [15:44] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) ● Apr 24 [16:13] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [16:13] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [16:35] schestowitz__ tomorrow I will repost http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/rms-censorship.ogg [16:57] Techrights-sec ok, I'll take a look. ● Apr 24 [17:32] *rianne_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:33] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [17:34] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [17:34] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell ● Apr 24 [22:16] *liberty_box has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *hook54321 has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *TechrightsBN has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *schestowitz__ has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *rianne_ has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *buzzert has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *rianne has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *asusbox2 has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *acer-box has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *libertybox_ has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *libertybox has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *Techrights-sec has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *MinceR has quit (*.net *.split) [22:16] *ChanServ has quit (*.net *.split) [22:19] *buzzert (~buzzert@buzzert.net) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *TechrightsBN (~b0t@techrights.org) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *schestowitz__ (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *hook54321 (sid149355@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhkzkadcgksvfrsf) has joined #boycottnovell [22:19] *barjavel.freenode.net gives channel operator status to schestowitz__ [22:20] *hook54321 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [22:20] *rianne (~rianne@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:287c:6f01:18d:b809) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *asusbox2 (~rianne@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:287c:6f01:18d:b809) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *acer-box (~acer-box@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *libertybox_ (~schestowi@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:9ed2:1eff:feb6:a8e1) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *libertybox (~schestowi@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:9ed2:1eff:feb6:a8e1) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *Techrights-sec (~quassel@2a00:23c4:c3aa:7d01:9ed2:1eff:feb6:a8e1) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *MinceR (mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell [22:20] *barjavel.freenode.net gives channel operator status to acer-box [22:24] *hook54321 (sid149355@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sxhgqvdxwdvoebiu) has joined #boycottnovell ● Apr 24 [23:10] schestowitz__ Re: M$ monopoly [23:11] schestowitz__ > https://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1385661261363367939 [23:11] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: When I got onboarded at Microsoft, I had to watch a video where one of the legal counsel explained that Microsoft w https://t.co/EmToLtAkG9 [23:11] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: When I got onboarded at Microsoft, I had to watch a video where one of the legal counsel explained that Microsoft w https://t.co/EmToLtAkG9 [23:11] schestowitz__ Wow. Nice catch. [23:11] schestowitz__ The person he responds to writes with us sometimes. [23:27] *ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovell [23:27] *barjavel.freenode.net gives channel operator status to ChanServ [23:37] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1618956935358#c4870435874567603852 [23:37] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:37] schestowitz__ "Quite. I have come across a number of EPO decisions over the years where the (usually British) authorised representative has been gently reminded that, unlike Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence, the instances of the EPO are not driven by precedents, but by the legal code of the EPC and its regulations. Not that this stops the EPO from relying on precedents when they suit it." [23:39] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/boeings-comma-drama-commas-and-taking.html?showComment=1618967481455#c5611679919864884636 [23:39] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Boeing's comma drama: Commas and taking the description into account when construing a claim (T 1127/16) - The IPKat [23:39] schestowitz__ "I would say that if anything, the EPO's approach to added subject-matter is likely to foster a vague drafting style. When any attempt to add a feature to a claim is met with the response that half a page worth of allegedly tied features should come with it, attorneys are likely to want to write vague specifications to try and avoid that; I've certainly moved in that direction." [23:39] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1618992175354#c8700775432931531467 [23:39] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:39] schestowitz__ " [23:39] schestowitz__ I think it is a bit more subtle than that, when you see the fact of which the board took judicial notice (I haven't read the decision, just the post by Anon @ 1350 above). The old story that in England the court knows nothing of the case apart from the evidence adduced is not really all of it. When the technology is so notorious that almost everyone (including judges) has used it in their living room, would you not expect a judge [23:39] schestowitz__ to take notice? I too used an electronic programme guide of the type described before 2009. [23:39] schestowitz__ I don't know if it's even a Civil law / England disparity at all - compare the EUIPO's decision finding McDonald's failed to prove use of their "BIG MAC" trade mark, where the EUIPO thought McD's evidence insufficient to prove use, with the UKIPO approach of taking judicial notice that very famous marks have a reputation. [23:39] schestowitz__ I am no big fan of EPO case law, but this one does not seem so outrageous when you scratch beneath the surface. [23:39] schestowitz__ " [23:39] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/boeings-comma-drama-commas-and-taking.html?showComment=1618993137543#c939487082461798075 [23:39] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Boeing's comma drama: Commas and taking the description into account when construing a claim (T 1127/16) - The IPKat [23:39] schestowitz__ " [23:39] schestowitz__ @ Anonymous of Tuesday, 20 April 2021 at 12:45:00 BST [23:39] schestowitz__ In reply to your comment, I would like to draw your attention to the last two paragraphs in Point 2 of T 1203/13: [23:40] schestowitz__ Linguistically, all the parts of the original description, which the appellant indicates as the basis for these amendments, are defined as optional by using "may" as an auxiliary verb in each sentence. Nevertheless, the disclosure as a whole clearly defines a single embodiment without alternatives. Thus, in this context the use of the auxiliary verb "may" does not provide its literal effect, since if it did, all aspects of the [23:40] schestowitz__ described process would be optional, thereby rendering unclear what was to be considered as part of the embodiment. [23:40] schestowitz__ The board therefore considers the subject-matter of claim 1 of the main request to constitute an inadmissible intermediate generalisation which contravenes Article 123(2) EPC. [23:40] schestowitz__ In other words if everything is optional, nothing is optional and you end up very quickly with added matter. [23:40] schestowitz__ This might be a good deterrent against US originating applications at the EPO. [23:40] schestowitz__ In European practice, a claim has to be clear and supported by the description, but this does not mean that on top of the claim you have to systematically consult the description. Otherwise Art 84 can be deleted at once and only keep Art 69 and its protocol. [23:40] schestowitz__ By the way, the protocol on Art 69 might speak about equivalents, but does not define them, so that each jurisdiction can have its own view on what is an equivalent, and here we are back at Actavis/Lilly. [23:40] schestowitz__ " [23:40] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1618993735137#c5078633256818419531 [23:40] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:40] schestowitz__ "Having thought about it some more though there does seem to be a problem here with an inventive step attack which was not pleaded at all at first instance, being the eventual reason for revoking the patent. If that is what has happened it does seem to be wrong. It isn't so much the Board taking judicial notice of notorious CGK that I object to, as the patentee being faced with an objection, however apparently strong, which they [23:40] schestowitz__ do not have an appropriate line of appeal over." [23:40] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1618998390233#c7529476778838725665 [23:40] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:40] schestowitz__ " [23:40] schestowitz__ Good thoughts from Freddie Noble but perhaps he might like to flesh out his worry about the patent owner being deprived of two instances to respond to an obviousness attack. I had a case many years ago, when that was the issue, and the TBA told me there was no need for a remittal because we can see from the OD's written reasoning, free from any doubts or ambiguities, exactly how it would have decided, had it been presented with [23:40] schestowitz__ any such attack. [23:40] schestowitz__ And in England, if I understand it right, there is anyway no absolute right to appeal every issue to a court of appeal. [23:40] schestowitz__ " [23:40] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/boeings-comma-drama-commas-and-taking.html?showComment=1618999136874#c50555889240986988 [23:40] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Boeing's comma drama: Commas and taking the description into account when construing a claim (T 1127/16) - The IPKat [23:40] schestowitz__ " [23:40] schestowitz__ You may avoid added-matter, but then have to contend with clarity, patentability, and sufficiency. It may not even be a zero sum game, but a fatal one in which no patent at all is possible. Nor should it. If you don't want to disclose an invention, then you don't get a patent. [23:40] schestowitz__ I refer to AO's comment below. A vague drafting style is only making a further rod for your back; one with which the EPO will happily beat you. [23:40] schestowitz__ Either half a page of features is a disclosed combination or it is not. Seems fair enough that you can't just conjure up a new claim combination to overcome the prior art. Third parties only have the luxury of reading a published application and not the prior art from which a new claim combination is derived. It's not the prior art's fault an intermediate position is not disclosed. [23:40] schestowitz__ " [23:40] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1619009361733#c6044897771577158398 [23:40] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:40] schestowitz__ "I cannot remember most things from last year, let alone 2009. It is applaudable that board members that have such long and accurate memories. " [23:41] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1619020103923#c7359641041498162626 [23:41] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:41] schestowitz__ " [23:41] schestowitz__ Fair point, there is often no absolute right of appeal and in particular a finding about whether or not such-and-such is CGK is one an appellate court should be particularly slow to interfere in. [23:41] schestowitz__ I have now read the whole decision and am not sure what I think about all of it except (surprise surprise) that it is more complicated than just the headnote and the IPKat article. I remain of the view that the Board were quite justified in taking judicial notice of the fact that grid-based electronic programme guides were CGK before 2009 and I wonder if the hotly-contested argument over whether the Board could assert this or not [23:41] schestowitz__ was a bit of a distraction from the real issue - does this CGK make the claimed invention obvious over D1? On this point the Board's reasoning is not especially convincing to me but that is not to say I think it is certainly wrong or the result of a horribly obvious error. Anyway I am quite sure that neither the patentee the opponent nor anyone else cares very much what I think about whether their invention was obvious. [23:41] schestowitz__ I have some sympathy for the patentee because their patent was revoked on the basis of an obviousness argument which seems less than soundly-reasoned, and which came from a Board from which there is no further appeal. But then sometimes you are going to disagree with judges about inventive step, there is really no way around that. [23:41] schestowitz__ " [23:41] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/board-of-appeal-relies-on-its-own-cgk.html?showComment=1619023953091#c5387706319420308186 [23:41] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKat [23:41] schestowitz__ "Another way to see the Decision is that for the Board the integrity of the so-called Gold standard ("directly and unambiguously derivable") and the imperative of bringing the opposition proceedings to an end (rather than starting another game of ping pong) were seen as a higher priority than the integrity of any reasoning over obviousness. The finding of lack of novelty could not stand, but neither could the patent. What to do [23:41] schestowitz__ then? As Freddie observes, the way out was obvious: whether a step is an inventive one is something on which reasonable minds will inevitably differ. " [23:41] schestowitz__ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/04/boeings-comma-drama-commas-and-taking.html?showComment=1619100777109#c6595628251670576174 [23:41] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Boeing's comma drama: Commas and taking the description into account when construing a claim (T 1127/16) - The IPKat [23:41] schestowitz__ "There is a false logic to the penultimate paragraph of Attentive Observer's last post. Using that logic, one could say that on the other hand if Art 84 EPC requires that the precise meaning (and so the scope) of a claim should be discernible without reference to the description, the second sentence of Art 69(1) EPC and its Protocol can be deleted. It does not seem unreasonable to understand Art 84 EPC to require that claims are [23:42] schestowitz__ presented in a straightforward and non-convoluted fashion to aid comprehension and reduce the burden on third parties reviewing patents while at the same time allowing that the description and claims can be used to interpret the claims. Indeed for a good many patents with claims specifying parts that have no clearly recognised name, it is impossible to understand what a claim might mean without looking at the description and [23:42] schestowitz__ drawings. "