Join us now at the IRC channel.
| *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-175.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 01:57 | |
| *asusbox2 (~rianne@host81-154-173-175.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 01:57 | |
| *asusbox has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Aug 26 01:59 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Aug 26 02:00 | |
| *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Aug 26 03:02 | |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 03:02 | |
| schestowitz | Subject: Re: What is true and what is false in accusations against Jacob | Aug 26 03:03 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Appelbaum | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | From: Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Date: 21/08/2016, 14:32 | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | To: Debian Private List <debian-private@lists.debian.org> | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:33:53PM +0100, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote: | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | No, the decision was not made based on those accusations but based on | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Debian's own member contribution / testimonials to the appropriately | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | delegated team. | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Indeed. I noticed a tendency, when famous people are involved, to put | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | the celebrity at centre stage and give everyone else nameless walk-on | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | parts. | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | In this story, and in Debian especially, there were several players on | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | stage. In -private we have read first-person stories by Erinn Clark, | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Jérémy Bobbio, and Ximin Luo. In DAM's mailbox we have read stories from | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | 3 more people who are well known and trusted in our community. | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | We did not prosecute or judge actions: we solely decided on the question | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | of membership of one person in Debian. That decision is based on reports | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | from multiple Debian members, who we trust, describing situations that | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | have no place in Debian. | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | In the first page of the article that Andreas linked, "Appelbaum" | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | appears 29 times, 42 times in the second page, 27 in the third, 22 in | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | the fourth. No other name appears nearly as often, and in fact very few | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | of those mentioned in the article have been given names at all. | Aug 26 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Erinn, Jérémy, Ximin Luo, are as important as any newspaper celebrity, | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | and I wish their stories were clearly kept in mind by everyone | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | remembering how the expulsion has happened in Debian. As DAMs there are | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | three more people, and their stories, who we will be sure to keep in | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | mind. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Enrico (with input from Joerg and Christoph), as DAM | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | -- | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | GPG key: 4096R/634F4BD1E7AD5568 2009-05-08 Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Subject: Re: What is true and what is false in accusations against Jacob | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Appelbaum | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | From: Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Date: 21/08/2016, 17:31 | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | To: Debian Private List <debian-private@lists.debian.org> | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Enrico Zini: | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 02:33:53PM +0100, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote: | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | In this story, and in Debian especially, there were several players on | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | stage. In -private we have read first-person stories by Erinn Clark, | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | Jérémy Bobbio, and Ximin Luo. In DAM's mailbox we have read stories from | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | 3 more people who are well known and trusted in our community. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | To nitpick, I did not submit a "first-person" story about Jake. I said that the | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | accusations were from credible people and not anonymous sources or government | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | agents. I do personally also believe these. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | I say this because one of his friends mildly harassed me about "pushing to | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | remove Jake from Debian" based on "leaked emails", though of course this could | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | be a bluff since I did *not* do that. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | A lot of negative stories that have since surfaced about Jake, are consistent | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | with my experiences of him. But I see this as part of a broader issue within | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | this modern-day artificial-scarcity "reputation economy" that we've built in | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | developed countries. Some people behave in certain ways optimised to this type | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | of economy, but it's bullshit and has zero long-term value. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | By focusing on the carefully-polished strategically-released "details" of the | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | current topic, you're allowing yourself to be exploited by such behavior. And | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | from another angle, some people other than Jake are also exhibiting these types | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | of behaviour, including some of his critics. If you people want to continue | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | talking about this topic, do some more research and talk about this far more | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | important wider issue, please. | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | X | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | -- | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35 | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE | Aug 26 03:04 |
| schestowitz | https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Subject: Re: Jacob Appelbaum and harrassement | Aug 26 03:05 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-github.com | GitHub - infinity0/pubkeys: My public keys and related information. | Aug 26 03:05 | |
| schestowitz | From: Jérémy Bobbio <lunar@debian.org> | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Date: 15/06/2016, 18:39 | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | To: debian-private@lists.debian.org | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Erinn Clark: | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | * Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> [2016:06:15 16:21 +0200]: | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Adam Borowski: | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | On the other hand, considering Jacob Appelbaum's connections and the | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | massive scale of previous attacks on him, by a state known to use | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | allegations of sexual misconduct before, I'd say it's better to assume all | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | such accusations to be false by default, even if corroborated by quite good | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | but not entirely definitive evidence. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | It's not hard to coordinate an effort to produce such evidence. Heck, a | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | coordinated group against Appelbaum has already stepped up: | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | http://jacobappelbaum.net/ -- which is far too organized for my tastes, not | Aug 26 03:05 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-jacobappelbaum.net | Jacob Appelbaum | Aug 26 03:05 | |
| schestowitz | smelling like the typical behaviour of victims. This doesn't of course | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | prove any evidence has been falsified, merely makes me wary. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Thus, I'd recommend requiring a far stronger proof in this case than | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | usually, and not taking steps like expulsion from Debian lightly. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Note: I'm not implying Appelbaum is innocent! | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | I and several other DDs are also Tor Project members, which is where these | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | accusations first surfaced. I myself have tried to stay away from the messy | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | details of the situation, but I do know that some of these other DDs have | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | personally spoken to some of the accusers, whom they have known as friends in | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | real life for a while. These accusers are also known and respected within the | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | infosec community, which is why you will see so many of them voicing opinions | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | against Jake. It's probably not too hard to deanonymise some of them, if you | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | tried. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | +1 | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | I've been much more involved in Tor than Debian for the past 7 years, but I can | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | personally vouch for at least 3 of anonymous victims (who are known to me). | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | This is not a state-sponsored attack. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | I can personally vouch for 2 of the stories on the website. I also have | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | direct experience of Jake playing with people's boundaries, mine | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | included since I first met him in Florence four years ago. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | -- | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | Lunar | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | lunar@debian.org | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | .''`. | Aug 26 03:05 |
| schestowitz | : :A : | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | # apt-get install anarchism | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | `. `'` | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > Please tell me if anything doesn't make sense | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > xxxxx | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > I attach more complete examples of the emails in case you have any doubts | Aug 26 03:06 |
| schestowitz | > you can learn a lot about a computer by taking out components and | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > putting them in another computer. for example, if its not working in one | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > machine, and it wont work in the other one, its probably the component | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > and not something else. | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > you can learn things like that from software, too. while the freebsd | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > devs struggle with getting pypy to work again (i believe they were | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > interested in it working before i asked about it) i have gotten the | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > version of pypy you can download pre-compiled to run in freebsd, using | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > linuxulator (think wine, but for linux elf binaries.) | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > while this probably takes care of fig, my editor (which runs natively on | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > freebsd, but only while pypy is natively available) is x11-based. and | Aug 26 03:13 |
| schestowitz | > running it in linuxulator means it wants x11 linux libraries. | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > most of those worked when copied-- but, the version of libc did not (i | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > really hate that thing sometimes, and i know im not alone in this. "do a | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > billion things, and maybe do them well.") | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > if pypy disappears from freebsd, i can still run fig-- thats nice. | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > what did i learn though? | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > you may need CPYTHON (github) to build pypy. you may not. though even | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > stuff i read on the pypy website suggests you might at times. | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > i mean either way, you need libffi (that gets pulled in) and zlib1g (i | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > had to copy libpng over for the linux elf version-- linux elf isnt | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > redundant, freebsd has their own elf binaries) but this is intriguing. | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > i dont think pypy is going to fold over this. if they need cpython (2) | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > to build pypy, will they maintain a minimal fork of it for the purpose? | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > dot dot dot... | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | > PLUS I CAN RUN GNU/LINUX CLI UTILS IN FREEBSD NOW! | Aug 26 03:14 |
| schestowitz | xxxx | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | wrote on 24/08/2020 20:54: | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >> | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >>> We (you?) should make a big deal out of this. | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >> | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >> I don't know enough about this person, except she only emerged in the | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >> public eye less than a decade ago and rose to fame/power quickly. Which | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | >> is a complaint I heard too... from females. | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | > Super talent, no doubt. | Aug 26 03:16 |
| schestowitz | > I thought the entire premise of pypy was that it built upon itself? | Aug 26 03:16 |
| *liberty_box_ (~liberty@host81-154-173-175.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 06:45 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/emilianopb92/status/1298483832136577024 | Aug 26 09:22 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@emilianopb92: If you have @nodejs web apps using #bcrypt as your encryption library , it might be time to migrate... #webdev… https://t.co/wo7zdfFzlq | Aug 26 09:22 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@emilianopb92: If you have @nodejs web apps using #bcrypt as your encryption library , it might be time to migrate... #webdev… https://t.co/wo7zdfFzlq | Aug 26 09:22 | |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 26 09:22 |
| schestowitz | If you have @nodejs | Aug 26 09:22 |
| schestowitz | web apps using #bcrypt as your encryption library , it might be time to migrate... #webdev #CyberSecurity #DEVCommunity | Aug 26 09:22 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 26 09:22 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/_carvalho_leo/status/1298453797761671170 | Aug 26 09:22 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@_carvalho_leo: Eita! https://t.co/ibGVw6csuK | Aug 26 09:22 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@schestowitz: #Bcrypt hashing library bug leaves #Nodejs applications open to brute-force attacks https://t.co/WW8K0c8i4h | Aug 26 09:22 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/iridesce57/status/1298346646024183808 | Aug 26 09:23 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@iridesce57: There are more of us and when we stand up, we win https://t.co/bZpIWxS6P8 | Aug 26 09:23 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@schestowitz: ● NEWS ● #meduza #ru #russia #Navalny ☞ ‘We saved his life’ The Russian doctors who treated Navalny on his diagnosi… https://t.co/Y3GFS2WRSZ | Aug 26 09:23 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/assangology/status/1298343306515152901 | Aug 26 09:23 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@assangology: @schestowitz Thank you so much for posting. This piece in @DissentMag, “The Gramsci of the Brazilian Right,” is a m… https://t.co/GGb2nPi3Rc | Aug 26 09:23 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@assangology: @schestowitz Thank you so much for posting. This piece in @DissentMag, “The Gramsci of the Brazilian Right,” is a m… https://t.co/GGb2nPi3Rc | Aug 26 09:23 | |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 26 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Thank you so much for posting. This piece in @DissentMag | Aug 26 09:23 |
| schestowitz | , “The Gramsci of the Brazilian Right,” is a must read. I’m inspired by the genius of Carvalho! | Aug 26 09:23 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 26 09:23 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/jocksjig/status/1298337397101346816 | Aug 26 09:24 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jocksjig: @schestowitz Is there anyone involved with Trump that isn't in jail or hasn't just got out or is on their way to? | Aug 26 09:24 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/Americansonofl1/status/1298267482633826306 | Aug 26 09:24 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Americansonofl1: @schestowitz Thats a lie.......[Doctor] and ill support TRUMP Qanon and AMERICA FIRST over the communist infiltrati… https://t.co/xBdGgzk01T | Aug 26 09:24 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Americansonofl1: @schestowitz Thats a lie.......[Doctor] and ill support TRUMP Qanon and AMERICA FIRST over the communist infiltrati… https://t.co/xBdGgzk01T | Aug 26 09:24 | |
| schestowitz | "Thats a lie.......[Doctor] and ill support TRUMP Qanon and AMERICA FIRST over the communist infiltration any day"\ | Aug 26 09:24 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/SagebrushTimes/status/1298251182838669318 | Aug 26 09:25 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@SagebrushTimes: @schestowitz .@schestowitz Vaccination is proven unsafe and ineffective. There are no safe vaccines. Period. | Aug 26 09:25 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/theodore_beza/status/1298248414615011328 | Aug 26 09:25 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@theodore_beza: @schestowitz US universities have been secretive, devious and clever in getting around the Supreme Court's ruling o… https://t.co/uStT9PhsA0 | Aug 26 09:25 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@theodore_beza: @schestowitz US universities have been secretive, devious and clever in getting around the Supreme Court's ruling o… https://t.co/uStT9PhsA0 | Aug 26 09:25 | |
| schestowitz | "US universities have been secretive, devious and clever in getting around the Supreme Court's ruling on affirmative action to continue their policy of using race in admissions. Short of a clear and explicit ban on using race at all, they will continue to do so one way or another." | Aug 26 09:25 |
| *acer-box has quit (Quit: Konversation term) | Aug 26 09:48 | |
| *asusbox2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Aug 26 09:48 | |
| *asusbox2 (~rianne@host81-154-173-175.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 09:49 | |
| *acer-box (~acer-box@host81-154-173-175.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 09:59 | |
| *acer-box has quit (Changing host) | Aug 26 09:59 | |
| *acer-box (~acer-box@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 09:59 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to acer-box | Aug 26 09:59 | |
| *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Aug 26 11:19 | |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 11:19 | |
| *TechrightsBN has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Aug 26 13:58 | |
| *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Aug 26 19:36 | |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 26 19:36 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!