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schestowitz> im trying to do three very important things right now:Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz> 1. argue why we need free software federation-- because it is really more important than ever. this is an unavoidable topic right now, but im trying to stress the similiarities with the fsf (to help the fsf out) though i will comment on differences when they come up.Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz> 2. im trying to argue why that federation needs to keep and support the fsf, whether they support us in turn or not.Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz> 3. im willing to debate matters with oliva at any time, though i feel like hes joining and pushing debates (which neither he nor i are starting, but we are both participating in) farther than they need to be, while i am trying really hard to focus on similarities more while the fsf pulls itself together.Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz> im always willing to debate, and always willing to debate oliva. but im trying very hard to make things easier on the fsf right now.Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:04
schestowitz> and hes making it difficult to make it easy! (i will of course, keep trying.) i dont know what hes playing at, either way the above three points stand. id rather wait a week or two for these debates with him, though most of the time im very gung ho about the idea. we can do them now as well... id rather wait, but i wont back out.Oct 05 05:04
schestowitzyou could argue that sflc and sfc are already a form of fsf federationOct 05 05:04
schestowitz> p.s. im also skewering the fsfe and that does not seem to be the reason oliva is particpating. based on appearances, the fsfe does not seem to have many fans ANYWHERE, outside of whomever they sold out to.Oct 05 05:05
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:05
schestowitz> none of my comments in support of fsf apply to fsfe, and im very explicit about that. they DO apply to fsf-la and fsfi though. i consider those chapters an important part of fsf.Oct 05 05:05
schestowitzfsfi is still good.Oct 05 05:05
schestowitzThe Techrights WikiOct 05 05:07
schestowitz> i want to put together a handbook specifically for creating the free software federation-- the idea is a sort of guide/howto, and it will use some things that are previously published.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> i dont want to do another series right now. i could do it as a handout (odt/pdf.)Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> we can keep it more open to new ideas if we make it a wiki.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> obviously im going to run that idea by you first, the idea being to start collecting and promoting ideas and advice for furthering and building this free software federation.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> but its sort of a big deal, i think it could be very cool to have it on the wiki but it really comes down to how you feel about it.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> if youre not against it i think maybe its the best option. i can keep that aspect of the wiki maintained and ask for input in various places.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> this federation would include the alliance and it the alliance would include the federation, but other than that i feel like the federation is the idea other people (several) are running with and thus it sort of belongs to them, which i think is great.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> of course im happy to lend a hand.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:07
schestowitz> cheers.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitzThe main question is, does this require a wiki form? The wiki is mostly used for indexes that change over time, or for matrices of topics.Oct 05 05:07
schestowitzRe: publication: oliva again> hes just making himself look like an idiot right now. its not the way hes acting, its the things hes saying about copyright that make him look like an idiot right now.Oct 05 05:11
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:11
schestowitz> i know too many people that are going to take one look at that and realise he knows nothing about copyright (which i dont even believe. hes MUCH smarter than this. why is he playing the fool?)Oct 05 05:11
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:11
schestowitz> i WANT HIM TO DO WELL. i dont want to argue with him right now. but he is attacking my points with absolute bullshit like he just wants the epistemological crap beaten out of him. i mean if you walk up and punch me in the face, i might consider who it is and do nothing. but if he keeps doing it, sooner or later im going to start swinging. i dont get this, what hes doing. hes being very dishonest and very trollish imo. ive got a hailingOct 05 05:11
schestowitzfrequency open in email, ive had mostly polite conversations with him for days and i SUPPORT everything he is doing with the fsf. but hes acting like he wants a fight. i dont want to, but ill give him a fight.Oct 05 05:11
schestowitz> i am campaigning to have it on the wiki instead, per the email i sent yesterday.Oct 05 05:12
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:12
schestowitz> im sure you just woke up.Oct 05 05:12
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:12
schestowitz> id rather find a place for this list as a living document than a techrights article.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> obviously it would do well to post a techrights article about it AFTER we find it a home.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> posting it in article form first really takes away momentum from it, hence this request.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> i am referring to the cc-by licensed thing i just posted.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> that license was chosen specifically for compatibility with the wiki.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> goodmorning. cheers.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitzOK, go for it. Just think of a sensible place in the wiki to file this under.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitzWoke up early as I meet  a mate at the gym 10am, will be very busy writing after that...Oct 05 05:13
schestowitzRe: good morning-- please dont publish the list you just reposted as a TR articleOct 05 05:13
schestowitz> cc-byOct 05 05:13
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz> i meant of course, cc by-sa.Oct 05 05:13
schestowitz>> The main question is, does this require a wiki form? The wiki is mostly used for indexes that change over time, or for matrices of topics.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz> i believe this will go well with the wiki for several reasons. also i believe the work will be amended more than once. wikis have several advantages and this takes advantage of some of them. im just waiting for your go-ahead, youve already re-shared the list itself. im going to continue work on it but im eager to move it to the wiki where i think it belongs.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>> you could argue that sflc and sfc are already a form of fsf federationOct 05 05:23
schestowitz> yes, i do argue that.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>>   fsfi is still good.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz> i think so too. fsf-la is the home of linux-libre, which as the standard kernel continues to be compromised will become the seed of a new generation of free kernel.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz> i know oliva doesnt feel up to forking the kernel, i still think linux-libre will be the inspiration (and beginning) of such a fork. this makes fsf-la very important (as if it were not already, for the same project.)Oct 05 05:23
schestowitzThis, to me (maybe others as well), is the only thing FSF-LA(TAM) is known for.Oct 05 05:23
schestowitz> im not 100% certain what you mean. im going to make an orphan page and we can find a place to link to it from later.Oct 05 05:25
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:25
schestowitz> it will be in the recent changes for everybody.Oct 05 05:25
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:25
schestowitz> perhaps a parent page called "Free software federation" (a more article stub like page) would be useful in the long run. we can talk about that when youre less busy.Oct 05 05:25
schestowitzSounds good, I know where I can place to a link to it.Oct 05 05:25
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Free_Software_FoundationOct 05 05:25
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-techrights.org | Free Software Foundation - TechrightsOct 05 05:25
schestowitzAdd an anchor there, where you see suitable. Maybe also expand the text. I'll assess the changes over RSS (that's how I track change) and will probably be 100% fine.Oct 05 05:25
schestowitz> its a while since i edited anything on a mediawiki.Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz> i know there are guides, more importantly the librethreat database is a great guide itself. i just used it to look up how to bold text.Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz>Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz> so if the new page looks sloppy at first, dont worry, i will be dressing it up at least as nicely as the librethreat page. cheers.Oct 05 05:46
schestowitzThere's also a GUI helper in the editor mode.Oct 05 05:46
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/lohang/status/1180338875820056577Oct 05 05:46
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@lohang: History of FSF and Free Software Matters https://t.co/fiy9kUZOhK 🐘schestowitz@mastodon.social Thank you very much… https://t.co/MASZRKKVU8Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz"Oct 05 05:46
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes--> techrights.org | History of FSF and Free Software Matters | TechrightsOct 05 05:46
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@lohang: History of FSF and Free Software Matters https://t.co/fiy9kUZOhK 🐘schestowitz@mastodon.social Thank you very much… https://t.co/MASZRKKVU8Oct 05 05:46
schestowitzHistory of FSF and Free Software Matters http://techrights.org/2019/10/03/history-of-fsf/ …Oct 05 05:46
schestowitzschestowitz@mastodon.social Thank you very much for publishing this. Very important post.Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz#RMS #softwarefreedom #foss #fsf #gnulinuxOct 05 05:46
schestowitz"Oct 05 05:46
schestowitz>> There's also a GUI helperOct 05 06:00
schestowitz> yeah, right! ;)Oct 05 06:00
schestowitz>Oct 05 06:00
schestowitz> seriously though, i have no trouble copying the style / syntax of the librethreat database, probably in the next 12 hours. i mean its cool to know theres a gui helper, i still think of a wiki as something to do with easier syntax than html. in text, and whatnot. this is exciting and im very grateful.Oct 05 06:00
schestowitzI never use html or wiki GUIs anymore as I'm fluent at them. But without them you lose potential adopters.Oct 05 06:00
schestowitz> Thanks.  I've made a new post for Oct 4th's logs.  I've got a shellOct 05 06:22
schestowitz> script here for that which I think fixes some of the accessibilityOct 05 06:22
schestowitz> issues in the old template.  Please take a look at the results:Oct 05 06:22
schestowitz>Oct 05 06:22
schestowitz> http://techrights.org/2019/10/05/irc-proceedings-friday-october-04-2019/Oct 05 06:22
schestowitz>Oct 05 06:22
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-techrights.org | IRC Proceedings: Friday, October 04, 2019 | TechrightsOct 05 06:22
schestowitz> The date format is adjustable.  Even though the old logs are ddmmyy, ifOct 05 06:22
schestowitz> possible it would be great if they could use the normal ISO format goingOct 05 06:22
schestowitz> forward.Oct 05 06:22
schestowitzThe "Permalink" you used for this is "irc-proceedings-friday-october-04-2019".Oct 05 06:22
schestowitzThe post is perfect in the sense that you also added category etc.Oct 05 06:22
schestowitzI guess "irc-proceedings-friday-october-04-2019" as URL slug might be OK going forward, as it's descriptive, but we can choose a more concise form (these can be edited before publication, cannot be changed afterwards as that would break the URL).Oct 05 06:22
schestowitzMaybe it's faster to just not change Permalink to something other than the default as  above. It would mean no need to edit.Oct 05 06:22
schestowitz>> We get some help from volunteers.Oct 05 06:23
schestowitz>>Oct 05 06:23
schestowitz>> The main channel now has ~60 regulars.Oct 05 06:23
schestowitz> Nice.  It ia vibrant community then if they are contributing toOct 05 06:23
schestowitz> discussion.Oct 05 06:23
schestowitzI'd say only one or 2 people have "shits for brains"; those are the types that can drown the channels with noise and nonsense. We don't have those. Or rarely do. So the s/n ratio is good and there's little provocation (such as Microsoft revisionism or Trump fans).Oct 05 06:24
schestowitz> Oh.  Sorry.  I had meant for it to be the same as before.  However,Oct 05 06:49
schestowitz> having a more descriptive one helps with the even the crappy search engines.Oct 05 06:49
schestowitzAs long as they're not changed after publication it's fine, but for "URL hacking" (like writing scripts to fetch all these pages) consistency can help. You could also get a list of all posts that are IRC logs by grepping the URLs. It's about tidiness as categories don't show up in the URL structure, only dates.Oct 05 06:49
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Flavia0847/status/1180546553498537984Oct 05 19:40
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@Flavia0847: And do what? Plant photos of the Ayetolleh? https://t.co/Jq0g3pFtx7Oct 05 19:40
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@schestowitz: "Iran tried to hack hundreds of politicians, journalists email accounts last month, warns Microsoft • The Register"… https://t.co/OB6VmxdT4gOct 05 19:40
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/ERPchum/status/1180557223090626560Oct 05 20:10
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@ERPchum: The Slow Death of Technical Media https://t.co/haC7Gi7PtE by @schestowitz #gnuOct 05 20:10
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes--> techrights.org | The Slow Death of Technical Media | TechrightsOct 05 20:10
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