IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, May 06, 2023

schestowitz

Dear Rose, I think that any date of the opponent showing that the asserted technical effect (invoked by the patentee) is not achieved in practice (or that there are many non-working embodiments in that respect) will be considered. It is like submitting experimental evidence that water boils at 100C at 1 bar: it concerns time-independent facts, unlike the requirement of G 2/21 which is tied to the (past) priority date.

schestowitz

Thanks Rose. My comments really come from my exper... ☞ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/05/to-encompass-and-embody-applying.html?showComment=1683189036032#c1644828523598751330

schestowitz

Thanks Rose. My comments really come from my experience of how effective an attack plausibility has become in EPO opposition. Previously, traditional lack of enablement attacks were difficult in chemical/pharma/biotech if you did not have any data to file to support them. Now you just have to attack the weak points in the data in the spec, and the patentee can be put in a very difficult situation if they cannot use post filing data. So

schestowitz

I believe plausibility has become far more demanding than enablement because it is a test of your data under attack from a hostile party that can find many different holes in it if they wish. EPO case law is very very unclear as to how the burden of proof operates in this situation between patentee and opponent, but I have seen the patentee's getting a lot more burden than they would under traditional enablement. Plausibility requires v

schestowitz

ery clear thinking in terms of which inventive concept needs to be shown using what form of data, and I think many opposition divisions struggle with the complexity of it. The reference to the Enlarged Board was perhaps for the purpose of seeking help for opposition divisions in particular, to give them a set of rules to follow, especially for use of post filing data. However the Enlarged Board instead, I think, realised it was better f

schestowitz

or things to play in the system for a while and let plausibility find its own way in terms of how examining and opposition divisions deal with it.

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | To encompass and embody: Applying the abstract principles of G 2/21 - The IPKat

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | To encompass and embody: Applying the abstract principles of G 2/21 - The IPKat

schestowitz

"What is not clear from the reasoning in G 2/... ☞ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/05/to-encompass-and-embody-applying.html?showComment=1683205763286#c3119553428718257898

schestowitz

What is not clear from the reasoning in G 2/21 is whether the application as filed must explicitly mention the technical effect. Would an implicit understanding that the claimed invention embodies the technical effect be sufficient?"<br /><br />My reading of headnote II. is that an explicit mentioning of the technical effect in the application as filed is not necessary.<br /><br />Otherwise, the Enlarged Board would not have formul

schestowitz

ated the requirement that the skilled person, having the *common general knowledge* in mind, and *based* on the application as originally filed, must be able to *derive* the technical effect as being encompassed as being encompassed by the technical teaching and embodied by the same originally disclosed invention.<br /><br />If it were necessary to have an explicit statement of the technical effect, neither would the common general know

schestowitz

ledge come into play, nor would any act of derivation be allowed.

schestowitz

Spot on and great article. In these times of high-... ☞ http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/04/looking-beyond-st26-is-it-time-for.html?showComment=1683192790651#c7298122822775520121

schestowitz

Spot on and great article. In these times of high-throughput data it would be extremely helpful if the WIPO tool would allow for a more versatile multi-sequence data import. For now it only allows to import a TXT with Identifier, Type of Molecule, Organism, Sequence. I'm looking forward to further developments of the tool to also include features, features location, notes etc. This automated processing would definitely save a hugh amoun

schestowitz

t of time but more importantly to minimize errors in the sequence listing.

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | To encompass and embody: Applying the abstract principles of G 2/21 - The IPKat

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Looking beyond ST.26: Is it time for patent offices to enter the bioinformatic age? - The IPKat

schestowitz

<li>

schestowitz

<h5><a href="https://www.haiku-os.org/news/2023-05-04_haiku_mentors_3_students_in_gsoc/">Haiku to mentor 3 students in Google Summer of Code 2023</a></h5>

schestowitz

schestowitz

<p>For many years now, Haiku is a regular participant in the Google Summer of Code program, which offers paid mentorship to people willing to work full time on Haiku for a few months. Google handles the payments, while mentors from our developer team handle the onboarding of the new contributors and guide them through the project.</p>

schestowitz

</blockquote>

schestowitz

</li>

schestowitz

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.haiku-os.org | Haiku to mentor 3 students in Google Summer of Code 2023 | Haiku Project

schestowitz

<li>

schestowitz

<h5><a href="https://www.haiku-os.org/news/2023-05-04_haiku_mentors_3_students_in_gsoc/">Haiku to mentor 3 students in Google Summer of Code 2023</a></h5>

schestowitz

schestowitz

schestowitz

</blockquote>

schestowitz

</li>

schestowitz

<li>

schestowitz

<h5><a href="https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2023/05/large-language-models-and-elections.html">Large Language Models and Elections</a></h5>

schestowitz

schestowitz

<p>Earlier this week, the Republican National Committee released a video that it claims was “built entirely with AI imagery.” The content of the ad isn’t especially novel—a dystopian vision of America under a second term with President Joe Biden—but the deliberate emphasis on the technology used to create it stands out: It’s a “Daisy” moment for the 2020s.</p>

schestowitz

</blockquote>

schestowitz

</li>

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Large Language Models and Elections - Schneier on Security

*psydroid2 (~psydroid@u8ftxtfux23wk.irc) has joined #techbytes

May 06 12:42

*Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

May 06 13:07

*Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes

May 06 13:08

*Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

May 06 13:38

*Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes

May 06 13:48

*Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

May 06 14:12

*Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes

May 06 14:16

*Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

May 06 14:27

*Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes

May 06 14:29

*libertybox has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techbytes

*libertybox (~schestowitz_log@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*libertybox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*libertybox__ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*roy has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*roy_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*libertybox_ (~schestowitz_log@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*libertybox__ (~schestowitz_log@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*schestowitz-TR has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)

*schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*Techrights-sec (~quassel@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*Techrights-sec2 (~quassel@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes

*roy (~quassel@freenode-9n1jkv.71tb.6ao7.hij1op.IP) has joined #techbytes

*roy has quit (OperServ (Session limit exceeded))

*roy (~quassel@freenode-9n1jkv.71tb.6ao7.hij1op.IP) has joined #techbytes

*roy has quit (OperServ (Session limit exceeded))

*roy (~quassel@freenode-9n1jkv.71tb.6ao7.hij1op.IP) has joined #techbytes

*roy has quit (OperServ (Session limit exceeded))

*roy (~quassel@freenode-9n1jkv.71tb.6ao7.hij1op.IP) has joined #techbytes

*roy has quit (OperServ (Session limit exceeded))

*schestowitz-TR has quit (Z-lined)

*Techrights-sec2 has quit (Z-lined)

*acer-box has quit (Z-lined)

*Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).

http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/05/to-encompass-and-embody-applying.html?showComment=1683288733860#c7066824380034692188

*Now talking on #techbytes

May 06 15:26

schestowitz

schestowitz

Is not the fundamental challenge in any First to File jurisdiction to reward those who, in their application as filed, make a useful, new and not obvious contribution to the art with a scope of protection that is commensurate with the contribution but does not exceed it? What the contribution is will be dependent not only on what the inventor conceives but also on the skills of the drafter of the patent application, to capture that con

schestowitz

tribution in full. Good drafting keeps the case out of the courts; less good drafting results in litigation fests. Pemetrexed anyone?<br /><br />People like to decry it, whenever judges reveal that they rely on "I know it when I see it" gut feelings, but that is 1) the reality and 2) necessary to serve the interests of justice. Good drafting is the most important factor that will help judges to see "it", and act acco

schestowitz

rdingly, case-by-case, as necessary. I think it right for the case law to evolve gradually: the flow of cases at the EPO is heavy enough to ensure that the case law will evolve rapidly. That's better than a Supreme Court laying down a binding prescription that cannot withstand critical commentary and comes to be widely disparaged.

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | To encompass and embody: Applying the abstract principles of G 2/21 - The IPKat