●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Wednesday, July 07, 2021 ●● ● Jul 07 [00:46] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/07/vico-oral-proceedings-on-legality-of.html?showComment=1625590811388#c4884012959285928751 [00:46] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | ViCo oral proceedings on the legality of ViCo oral proceedings - G1/21, The Sequel - The IPKat [00:47] schestowitz " [00:47] schestowitz It is clear that with the original composition of the EBA the answer to G 1/21 was known in advance as four members of the EBA had publicly expressed the view that it should be left to the discretion of the boards which form OP should take. With two of those send out by their peers the answer is not so clear cut, certainly in view of some of the questions raised by members of the EBA during the OP. [00:47] schestowitz It remains scandalous that the first deliberation on partiality was taken in the absence of the parties and the parties did not receive the declarations of the members suspected of partiality. This also explains the further requests on partiality from the opponent. The fact that the chair of the boards which was also chair of the EBA in G1/21 before he was removed does not simplify the matter. [00:47] schestowitz The attitude of the presidents representative was obnoxious to say the least. Claiming against any for form of common sense that Art 116 in the absence of any specific indications gave the right for the EPO to decide the form of OP by ViCo and the parties have no say in the matter. He went so far as to claim that there has never been a right to have OP on the premises and that a right which does not exist cannot be taken away. [00:47] schestowitz One thing became clear during the OP is that OP by ViCo have no legal basis in the EPC as it stands. [00:47] schestowitz For the presidents representative G 3/19 (the famous dynamic interpretation) has shown that it was perfectly possible to amend the EPC by way of secondary legislation. The absence of the rapporteur in G 3/19 could save us from a further dynamic interpretation. [00:47] schestowitz For the presidents representative G 2/19 only provided that only in case of the OP on the premises of the EPO that the sentence in said decision Users of the European Patent Organisation's services can legitimately expect that the European Patent Office's departments will not perform acts at whatever other place they choose was valid. [00:47] schestowitz In case of OP by ViCo The venue of the oral proceedings will be deemed to be the location where the opposition division is set up. See decisions of the president of 01.04.20 and 14.04.20 on OP by ViCo before ED resp. OD. In other words the location is purely virtual. [00:47] schestowitz This actually the wish of the president. In its New Normal the president wants to set up a virtual EPO where ED and OD will only be residing on paper at a given location of the EPO. [00:47] schestowitz Without the possibility of the BA to have the discretion to decide on OP by ViCo without the consent of the parties and the possibility to authorise its members to be sitting wherever they desire when having OP by ViCo, the president cannot implement his New Normal. [00:47] schestowitz This is actually the true reason why the president is so keen to obtain a positive reply from the EBA in G 1/21. With Mr J., Mr B, Mrs R and Mr A the result was acquired, now I am not as sure as only Mrs R and Mr E. were left. [00:47] schestowitz The comparison 300/3000 does not hold. It simply means that the parties could have cases decided and a backlog of opposition decisions could be avoided. It does not mean that all the parties were keen on mandatory OP by ViCo after the pandemic. In view of the majority of the amicus curiae the contrary seems correct. [00:47] schestowitz It is difficult to understand why mandatory OP by ViCo after the pandemic would give quicker access to justice as the periods to summon and to file documents under R 116(1) do not change whether the OP is by ViCo or in presence and certainly do not justify pushing for mandatory OP by ViCo outside the pandemic. [00:47] schestowitz " [00:47] schestowitz http://suepo.org/july_2021_press_articles/d-47420 [00:47] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-suepo.org | [00:47] schestowitz "(Kluwer Patent Blog posted on 03/07/2021) "European Patent Office publishes Annual Review 2020". We recommend reading the comments on the article as well." [00:49] schestowitz http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2021/07/03/european-patent-office-publishes-annual-review-2020/#comments [00:49] schestowitz " [00:49] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | European Patent Office publishes Annual Review 2020 - Kluwer Patent Blog [00:49] schestowitz Like every document coming from the present management of the EPO it is full of buzzwords and tries to give a glorious picture of the EPO. [00:49] schestowitz If one knows the reality behind it, it is far from being glorious. [00:49] schestowitz The actual president of the EPO had been chosen to restore social peace at the office. In matters of being disliked by his staff he achieved in less than three years what his predecessor took much longer to achieve. [00:49] schestowitz The constant attack on the salaries and pensions and the fact that even examining staff can only have 5 year contracts, renewable once, before hoping to get a non-time limited contract is covered up by meaningless management warble. It is clearly management by fear, and if you dare say something you are out quicker than you think. [00:49] schestowitz When a staff member leaves the office before ten years he has accrued no right for a pension from the EPO. He just gets back the sums he has put in the pension scheme and has to look what he can do with it. The EPO is not any longer an attractive employer. Any potential staff with a family and children will not leave his country of origin, sever all links with his social security scheme, to come to such a wobbly situation. [00:49] schestowitz The nepotism at the EPO has taken proportions which are hard to believe. Having connections with the Iberian Peninsula in general and Alicante in particular gives you a good chance to be propelled in the higher salary levels when entering the EPO. Otherwise you are just good for the coal front. [00:49] schestowitz The only thing which matters to management is churning out products as quickly as possible. Timeliness is what counts, the rest is secondary. The latest folly of EPOs management is to put most of the staff which is allowed to be present in the office in open space offices, and this applies to examiners as well. [00:49] schestowitz Most of the staff members, and this is also valid for members of the BA, will not even have an allotted desk, less an office. They will have to put their name on a list and on the days they are allowed to come in look which desk is free! [00:49] schestowitz Money has been provided in the budget to refurbish the EPO buildings in order to create those open spaces. When you know that the BA will come back into town, near Hackerbrcke, you wonder why all this money has been spent on rented accommodation in Haar with a very long lease. [00:49] schestowitz As far as quality is concerned one has just to look at decisions of the BA. When you look at some recent decisions on substantial procedural violations you have to realise that the three man division exists only on paper. Working in home office, which should become the norm in the future, is certainly not enhancing the feeling of belonging and the cooperation with colleagues. But on a glossy paper everything looks honky dory. [00:49] schestowitz The number of patents revoked or severely limited after opposition is dramatically increasing. In general the search can be qualified as being sub-optimal, and examination is even worse. It would be interesting to see the real internal quality figures. There are far from being as glorious as the office tries the outside word to believe. But they will never be published. [00:49] schestowitz As far as public user consultation is concerned, receiving 150 responses is anything to be proud of when you compare with the number of applicants and qualified representatives. The reason for this is very simple: why bother to send in suggestions and comments as the EPO will ignore most of them. [00:50] schestowitz The same is happening for OP by ViCo without consent of the parties, cf. G 1/21. The way the PD legal affairs behaved during yesterdays OP before the EBA is perfectly illustrating the disdain of the present management for the users of the EPO. Alleging that there was never a right for OP in person and that Art 116 does not forbid OP by ViCo and it is for the office to decide on the form OP can take and the parties have no say as the office knows [00:50] schestowitz what is good for the parties, could not give a worse impression. [00:50] schestowitz Something has gone wrong at the EPO. It has become a playground for co-opted pseudo managers full of themselves and who do not have the faintest idea of the products delivered, but know very well how those products should look like. [00:50] schestowitz REPLY [00:50] schestowitz Anon Y. Mouse [00:50] schestowitz JULY 4, 2021 AT 5:51 PM [00:50] schestowitz This is the first that I have ever heard about the Boards of Appeal moving back into Munich. [00:50] schestowitz Is that true? Has this been publicly confirmed? It would be a welcome move, but I find it hard to believe that the EPO management would reverse such a recent decision so easily (even if that decision has proven immensely unpopular both within the EPO and with its users). [00:50] schestowitz REPLY [00:50] schestowitz Attentive Observer [00:50] schestowitz JULY 4, 2021 AT 8:10 PM [00:50] schestowitz The members of the boards have been informed. They have the same conditions than other staff members: no personal desk. If they want a desk they have to apply for one! [00:50] schestowitz Modern management! [00:50] schestowitz REPLY [00:50] schestowitz Observer [00:50] schestowitz JULY 3, 2021 AT 7:08 PM [00:50] schestowitz Wouldnt a link to the press release have been more efficient? Everything is perfect, and moving according to plans. [00:50] schestowitz REPLY [00:50] schestowitz Concerned observer [00:50] schestowitz JULY 5, 2021 AT 11:36 AM [00:50] schestowitz A masterclass in crafting seemingly positive conclusions from rather unpromising material. For example, consider the statement The consultation cycle was considered a success. Whilst this sounds positive, it could actually be (and most likely is) an example of the management marking their own homework as it does not indicate WHO considered the consultation cycle to be a success. [00:50] schestowitz The report is also excellent text to use when playing buzzword bingo. However, when it comes to providing an accurate picture of the current state of the EPO, it seems to me that this document is rather useless. I suppose that this is all that one can expect when the management has no fear of being held accountable for making false or misleading statements. [00:50] schestowitz Another trick seems to be to design key performance indicators that look good for (and are easily managed by) EPO management, but that are in fact not intended to provide a meaningful insight into real world performance. For example, how do the five pillars of quality (design; support; shared values; metrics and continual learning; and dialogue) lead to high quality patent search and examination? It seems to me that it all rather depends [00:50] schestowitz upon what metrics you decide to measure, as well as what is meant in reality by the other four pillars. For example, experience teaches us that dialogue can actually be EPO-speak for we announce new measures and then offer you an opportunity to provide comments that we have no intention of taking into account. Anyone who spent time preparing and submitting comments on Art 15a RPBA can bear witness to this. [00:50] schestowitz " ● Jul 07 [01:18] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:19] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:24] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:24] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:34] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:34] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:42] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:44] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [02:06] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:06] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:25] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [02:26] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [02:38] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [02:40] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:40] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:45] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [02:49] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [02:50] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [03:56] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [03:57] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Jul 07 [04:04] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:06] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:46] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [05:05] *DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [05:11] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [05:11] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [05:12] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [05:13] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [06:14] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [06:14] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [06:15] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [06:15] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [06:55] schestowitz https://twitter.com/PaoloFurani/status/1412531571442294786 [06:55] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@PaoloFurani: #Linux #foundation as a Farce The corporations that run the so-called Linux Foundation have already decimated the https://t.co/rwMD2RXKgX [06:55] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@PaoloFurani: #Linux #foundation as a Farce The corporations that run the so-called Linux Foundation have already decimated the https://t.co/rwMD2RXKgX [06:55] schestowitz ""#Linux #foundation as a Farce The corporations that run the so-called Linux Foundation have already decimated the domain http://Linux.com The Morally and Financially Corrupt Linux Foundation [06:55] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.linux.com | Linux.com - News For Open Source Professionals [06:56] schestowitz https://twitter.com/PaoloFurani/status/1412528837754241031 [06:56] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@PaoloFurani: @tonroosendaal https://t.co/prLjHDKH2U [06:56] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes--> techrights.org | The Morally and Financially Corrupt Linux Foundation | Techrights [06:56] schestowitz https://twitter.com/PaoloFurani/status/1412529806848278529 [06:56] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@PaoloFurani: @tonroosendaal https://t.co/a3vleaXD6L [06:56] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes--> techrights.org | Linux Foundation as a Farce | Techrights [06:58] schestowitz https://twitter.com/manticlops/status/1412651360949002241 [06:58] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@manticlops: @schestowitz An unusual foray into bigotry. [06:59] schestowitz https://twitter.com/AmbyR00/status/1412466902048313344 [06:59] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@AmbyR00: @schestowitz Hopefully. This is the first I hear of it, and I use Audacity fairly often. ● Jul 07 [07:22] schestowitz x https://juliareda.eu/2021/07/github-copilot-is-not-infringing-your-copyright/ [07:22] schestowitz # m$ apologist [07:22] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-juliareda.eu | Julia Reda GitHub Copilot is not infringing your copyright [07:23] schestowitz x https://threatpost.com/linux-variant-ransomware-vmwares-nas/167511/ [07:23] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-threatpost.com | Linux Variant of REvil Ransomware Targets VMwares ESXi, NAS Devices | Threatpost [07:23] schestowitz x https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/blogs/linuxbased-malware-requires-linux/ [07:33] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [07:33] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [07:36] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [07:37] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [08:07] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:08] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:09] *rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes [08:09] *liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [10:10] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [10:33] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [14:19] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@56b5tvqswhtgq.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [15:24] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [15:24] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [16:46] *blitzed has quit (Quit: +++ATH0&D2 NO CARRIER NO CAREER) [16:48] *blitzed (~blitzed@982ksn2n9rjuq.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [17:53] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [17:53] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 07 [22:12] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/07/russia-adopts-law-that-shakes-cognac.html?showComment=1625655015128#c5489199946154861572 [22:12] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Russia adopts law that shakes Cognac and Champagne importers - The IPKat [22:12] schestowitz "Dear reader, thank you for your comment! Regarding the requirement for the transition period of 7 years, it is a separate provision, applicable to "cognac" in general (to any cognac sold in Russia, not only to what is defined as "Russian cognac" by the law). See Art. 4(3) of the amending law (here is the direct link to Art. 4: http://www.consultant.ru/document/cons_doc_LAW_389127/ad890e68b83c920baeae9bb9fdc9b94feb1af0ad/)" [22:12] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.consultant.ru | ???? 4 / ????????? [22:13] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/07/vico-oral-proceedings-on-legality-of.html?showComment=1625646082291#c8801631953561387953 [22:13] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | ViCo oral proceedings on the legality of ViCo oral proceedings - G1/21, The Sequel - The IPKat [22:13] schestowitz "The founding fathers of the EPO are spluttering in their cocoa or turning in their graves. Sad days." [22:15] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/07/double-trouble-eba-finds-legal.html?showComment=1625666024859#c7549694668709799094 [22:15] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Double trouble: EBA finds legal justification for the prohibition of double patenting (G4/19) - The IPKat [22:15] schestowitz " [22:15] schestowitz According to thw wording of A.125 "the European Patent Office shall take into account the principles of procedural law generally recognised in the Contracting States." [22:15] schestowitz Having decided that A.125 could be applied to cover double patenting, it reached the opinion that it "is unable to conclude that the prohibition on double patenting is a principle generally recognised in the Contracting States." [22:15] schestowitz That, in my view, should have been the end of the matter. Revisiting the Travaux cannot determine what the current position is in the contracting states, as required by A.125, it can only provide an historic perspective. The Travaux were not created by the current contracting states, only a sub-section of them. [22:15] schestowitz " ● Jul 07 [23:16] schestowitz https://twitter.com/csolisr/status/1412767649298276361 [23:16] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@csolisr: @NoraDotCodes Ooh boy, @schestowitz will have a field trip with this one [23:19] schestowitz https://twitter.com/AmbyR00/status/1412735192633155585 [23:19] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@AmbyR00: We probably should keep a keen eye on what is happening in China. https://t.co/imf8lWXEW8 [23:19] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@schestowitz: NEWS #NewYorkTimes #Politics For Chinas Business Elites, Staying Out of Politics Is No Longer an Option https://t.co/bBTiQQODi9