●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, July 10, 2023 ●● ● Jul 10 [00:31] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) ● Jul 10 [02:59] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) ● Jul 10 [03:04] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@h9w2ackdz5nh2.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 10 [04:01] *asusbox (~rianne@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:01] *rianne_ (~rianne@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:11] *asusbox has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [04:12] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Jul 10 [07:03] *parsifal (~parsifal@aahfbjmj4hann.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 10 [08:05] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@u8ftxtfux23wk.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 10 [14:50] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [14:52] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@h9w2ackdz5nh2.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jul 10 [15:21] *parsifal_ (~parsifal@aahfbjmj4hann.irc) has joined #techbytes [15:21] *parsifal has quit (connection closed) [15:23] *parsifal_ has quit (Quit: Leaving) [15:29] schestowitz
  • [15:29] schestowitz
    Linus Torvalds calls for calm as bcachefs misses Linux 6.5
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    He also voiced his "slight suspicion that this may be one of those releases that may drag out, not because there are any particular issues I expect problems with, but simply due to [a] lot of Europe going on vacation for the month of August."

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    • [15:29] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.theregister.com | Linus Torvalds calls for calm as bcachefs misses Linux 6.5 The Register [15:32] schestowitz
  • [15:32] schestowitz
    Trust in software is important for me
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    Now, Fedora got recently a proposal to add opt-out telemetry.

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    Considering Fedora and Red Hat are tied to each other on some level, it again has affected the user trust. Mainly negatively.

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    • [15:32] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-akselmo.dev | Trust in software is important for me ● Jul 10 [16:38] schestowitz https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36667078 [16:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-news.ycombinator.com | Canonical and IBM Are Turning Ubuntu and Fedora into Microsoft Windows | Hacker News [16:38] schestowitz " [16:38] schestowitz Dr Roy on HN. This will be interesting. [16:38] schestowitz - - - [16:38] schestowitz First thing I did on my Ubuntu install was remove the Firefox snap, add the Mozilla ppa, and install Firefox from there via apt. [16:38] schestowitz If Mozilla maintains its own ppa and they do all the hard working of getting everything working, I dont understand why Canonical has to push a snap option instead. [16:38] schestowitz I did give it a try, but only to get obnoxious popups about being forced to restart Firefox every other day for snap to update, and these popups would even bring my monitor out of dpms (and maybe my machine out of sleep?) to inform me of this. But even heeding these prompts, Firefox would still update in the background leaving me unable to open a new tab because IPC broke since the master and slave processes were now running different F [16:38] schestowitz irefox versions.. [16:38] schestowitz reply [16:38] schestowitz [16:38] schestowitz tapoxi 2 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:38] schestowitz Garbage article. The author claims that Flatpak (which is decentralized) is an attempt at centralizing software since Flathub (not controlled by IBM/Red Hat) is popular. Also any telemetry is awful, even telemetry that is open and optional. [16:38] schestowitz reply [16:38] schestowitz [16:38] schestowitz loloquwowndueo 22 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:38] schestowitz Canonical keeping up by taking control of LXD (monopoly!) - it was revealed today that this was motivated by the lead of the LXD project leaving Canonical. [16:38] schestowitz reply [16:38] schestowitz [16:38] schestowitz rollcat 10 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:38] schestowitz https://web.archive.org/web/20230710143554/http://techrights... [16:38] schestowitz reply [16:38] schestowitz [16:38] schestowitz chaosite 5 minutes ago | parent | next [] [16:38] schestowitz https://archive.is/nKH8O [16:38] schestowitz reply [16:38] schestowitz [16:38] schestowitz malfist 3 minutes ago | prev [] [16:38] schestowitz Come on, this is clickbait. [16:38] schestowitz Want to discuss particular failings in the governance models of Ubuntu or Fedora? Fine. Let's talk about it. We can even discuss if that specific feature of the governance model is similar to an action Microsoft is/has taken. [16:38] schestowitz Vague statements about two different governance models "turning into" a monopoly OS? There's no cogent baseline here to talk about. It's just clickbait and belly aching. [16:38] schestowitz reply" [16:39] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ https://web.archive.org/web/20230710143554/http://techrights ) [16:39] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Cannot communicate securely with peer: no common encryption algorithm(s). ( status 0 @ https://archive.is/nKH8O ) [16:46] schestowitz " [16:46] schestowitz If you wanted to make some kind of argument about what's going on with RHEL, I'd hear you out... but Fedora is and remains a community project. While Red Hat certainly has a strong voice in the team meetings, development continues to occur in the open. And while it is true that the Fedora project is considering adding telemetry to Fedora 40, they're openly discussing what kinds of telemetry are ethical before even committing to adding a [16:46] schestowitz ny telemetry. It's a stretch to equate this immediately to Microsoft Windows. [16:46] schestowitz > We believe an open source community can ethically collect limited aggregate data on how its software is used without involving big data companies or building creepy tracking profiles that are not in the best interests of users. Users will have the option to disable data upload before any data is sent for the first time. Our service will be operated by Fedora on Fedora infrastructure, and will not depend on Google Analytics or any othe [16:46] schestowitz r controversial third-party services. And in contrast to proprietary software operating systems, you can redirect the data collection to your own private metrics server instead of Fedoras to see precisely what data is being collected from you, because the server components are open source too.[1] [16:46] schestowitz While I'd personally love to see opt-in rather than opt-out telemetry, I believe in the value that telemetry can provide to projects hoping to improve their software/OS offerings. I'm glad to see open discussion on the subject of how to do so ethically. [16:46] schestowitz [1] https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-request-pr... [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz sandworm101 1 minute ago | parent | next [] [16:46] schestowitz >> While I'd personally love to see opt-in rather than opt-out telemetry [16:46] schestowitz I think the vast majority of Linux users would not opt-in to any sort of telemetry. Some would consciously make a determination, but MS/Windows has trained the bulk of us to just say no to such things during any sort of install procedure. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz ComputerGuru 9 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:46] schestowitz Dr Roy on HN. This will be interesting. [16:46] schestowitz - - - [16:46] schestowitz First thing I did on my Ubuntu install was remove the Firefox snap, add the Mozilla ppa, and install Firefox from there via apt. [16:46] schestowitz If Mozilla maintains its own ppa and they do all the hard working of getting everything working, I dont understand why Canonical has to push a snap option instead. [16:46] schestowitz I did give it a try, but only to get obnoxious popups about being forced to restart Firefox every other day for snap to update, and these popups would even bring my monitor out of dpms (and maybe my machine out of sleep?) to inform me of this. But even heeding these prompts, Firefox would still update in the background leaving me unable to open a new tab because IPC broke since the master and slave processes were now running different F [16:46] schestowitz irefox versions.. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz gjsman-1000 1 minute ago | parent | next [] [16:46] schestowitz This is the same guy who claimed that you should "never, ever, use DuckDuckGo" which was quickly flagged to oblivion for being absurd. [16:46] schestowitz https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31237822 [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz tapoxi 10 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:46] schestowitz Garbage article. The author claims that Flatpak (which is decentralized) is an attempt at centralizing software since Flathub (not controlled by IBM/Red Hat) is popular. Also any telemetry is awful, even telemetry that is open and optional. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz tpush 7 minutes ago | parent | next [] [16:46] schestowitz Opt-out telemetry is indeed awful, no matter how righteous one feels in the cause to get it. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz tapoxi 5 minutes ago | root | parent | next [] [16:46] schestowitz I'm going to be controversial and disagree with this. If you're being onboarded to an app, and there's a "enable telemetry?" button and it's clear and checked by default, that's not awful. If your data is sufficiently anonymized, that's the only way you're going to get actual user data, otherwise it's skewed to be those that go out of the way to enable it - in other words, not normal users. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz loloquwowndueo 30 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:46] schestowitz Canonical keeping up by taking control of LXD (monopoly!) - it was revealed today that this was motivated by the lead of the LXD project leaving Canonical. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz aeurielesn 2 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:46] schestowitz I'm glad I stopped Ubuntu over a decade ago. I didn't appreciate their "philosophy" nor technical choices. [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz rollcat 18 minutes ago | prev | next [] [16:46] schestowitz https://web.archive.org/web/20230710143554/http://techrights... [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz chaosite 13 minutes ago | parent | next [] [16:46] schestowitz https://archive.is/nKH8O [16:46] schestowitz reply [16:46] schestowitz [16:46] schestowitz malfist 11 minutes ago | prev [] [16:46] schestowitz Come on, this is clickbait. [16:46] schestowitz Want to discuss particular failings in the governance models of Ubuntu or Fedora? Fine. Let's talk about it. We can even discuss if that specific feature of the governance model is similar to an action Microsoft is/has taken. [16:46] schestowitz Vague statements about two different governance models "turning into" a monopoly OS? There's no cogent baseline here to talk about. It's just clickbait and belly aching." [16:47] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-request-pr ) [16:47] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-news.ycombinator.com | Why People Should Never Ever Use DuckDuckGo (2020) | Hacker News [16:48] schestowitz "I'm glad I stopped Ubuntu over a decade ago. I didn't appreciate their "philosophy" nor technical choices. [16:48] schestowitz " [16:48] schestowitz " [16:48] schestowitz No, data collection ought to always be based on informed consent. A default enabled checkbox that can easily be skipped over does not constitute informed consent. [16:48] schestowitz I agree that opt-in telemetry however is useless. [16:48] schestowitz Thus, the only ethical and useful option is forced choice; i.e. present the user with two unselected options where a decision between them must be made. [16:48] schestowitz This is e.g. how Apple designed its usage data option for the Apple TV, AFAIK. Two unselected options, given equal weight and styling etc." [16:48] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ https://web.archive.org/web/20230710143554/http://techrights ) [16:49] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Cannot communicate securely with peer: no common encryption algorithm(s). ( status 0 @ https://archive.is/nKH8O ) [16:59] schestowitz ckbox that can easily be skip [16:59] schestowitz http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/36839/ [16:59] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-LXer: Important, also remember StatCounter error rate is [he]gt[/he]90%: After 30 Years, Linux Finally Hits 3% Market Share [16:59] schestowitz "StatCounter, reports something as fact, you can safely ignore it." ● Jul 10 [17:53] schestowitz " [17:53] schestowitz Come on, this is clickbait. [17:53] schestowitz Want to discuss particular failings in the governance models of Ubuntu or Fedora? Fine. Let's talk about it. We can even discuss if that specific feature of the governance model is similar to an action Microsoft is/has taken. [17:53] schestowitz Vague statements about two different governance models "turning into" a monopoly OS? There's no cogent baseline here to talk about. It's just clickbait and belly aching." [17:54] schestowitz ""By that logic, it should be fine to have a big obvious "enable telemetry?" button that's disabled by default, right? Because otherwise you're just assuming that people will ignore it and leave things on the default setting, and claiming that it's okay to exploit that to enable telemetry. ● Jul 10 [19:50] schestowitz https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36667078 [19:50] schestowitz FYI, Mozilla also maintains the snap and the flathub images, so that part of the argument doesn't have much traction imho. [19:50] schestowitz Can't speak to waking from a sleep state (even just screen off)... that said, having an evergreen browser is pretty important, given how bad 0-day exploits can be. This is also part of why Snaps instead of the repo/ppa for such things as GUI apps. Snap and Flatpak both have advantages and disadvantages over each other, technical and ethical. [19:50] schestowitz That said, by using such an abstraction for common applications, it allows for the applications to be released ahead of core OS changes. It allows the delivery of both application features and security updates without risk to the core os running. [19:50] schestowitz I know some really hate AppImage/Flatpak/Snaps etc. In the end, it's better in a lot of ways and there are distros for those that don't want to participate. It's still likely the best option for most apps for most people. It allows for developers of software to generate releases that can be consumed from any Linux distro without having to worry about specific downstream distros potentially breaking things, or worse, running unmaintained [19:50] schestowitz , years old, versions that are broken. [19:50] schestowitz reply [19:50] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-news.ycombinator.com | Canonical and IBM Are Turning Ubuntu and Fedora into Microsoft Windows | Hacker News ● Jul 10 [20:08] *rianne_ (~rianne@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [20:08] *asusbox (~rianne@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [20:29] *Moocher5254 has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) ● Jul 10 [21:59] *Moocher5254 (~quassel@qy2y59ha8m3v6.irc) has joined #techbytes