●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, August 12, 2023 ●● ● Aug 12 [00:45] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 12 [01:00] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:12] *acer-box (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techbytes [01:13] *acer-box has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [01:13] *acer-box (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techbytes [01:14] *schestowitz-TR2 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [01:14] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [01:15] *Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). [01:15] *Now talking on #techbytes [01:15] *Topic for #techbytes is: Welcome to the official channel of the TechBytes Audiocast [01:15] *Topic for #techbytes set by schestowitz!~roy@haii6za73zabc.irc at Tue Jun 1 20:21:34 2021 [01:16] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:16] *MinceR (~mincer@bringer.of.light) has joined #techbytes [01:16] *irc.techrights.org sets mode +a #techbytes MinceR [01:17] *XFaCE (~XFaCE@uzfeivw9fp6ba.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:31] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:34] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@svp6nvmiuarba.irc) has joined #techbytes [01:40] *MinceR gives voice to libertybox__ schestowitz-TR XFaCE [01:40] *MinceR gives voice to libertybox_ tool Techrights-sec2 [01:40] *MinceR gives voice to Techrights-sec libertybox schestowitz[TR2] [01:40] *MinceR gives voice to psydruid GNUmoon2 Noisytoot [01:40] *MinceR gives voice to techrights[sec]_ ● Aug 12 [03:33] *You are now known as schestowitz [03:39] *schestowitz has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [03:39] *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [03:40] *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [03:42] *Now talking on #techbytes [03:42] *Topic for #techbytes is: Welcome to the official channel of the TechBytes Audiocast [03:42] *Topic for #techbytes set by schestowitz!~roy@haii6za73zabc.irc at Tue Jun 1 20:21:34 2021 [03:42] *Now talking on #techbytes [03:43] *You are now known as schestowitz [03:44] *MinceR gives voice to schestowitz ● Aug 12 [04:13] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [04:34] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:42] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [04:46] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Aug 12 [05:33] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/08/adding-matter-by-amending-description.html?showComment=1691683634118#c2884521139162618415 When to "feed the troll"? Here my answer.

In my comments to patent law blogs, when I reply to the comment of another, I try always to remember who is my wider readership. I try to write for their benefit.

I have learned from other blogs that it is an illusion to suppose that you [05:33] schestowitz will change the opinion of the one reader you are replying to, so I no longer even try. But nevertheless, I will often reply to an obdurate commenter. Why that then?

It is whenever I think that my reply might help disinterested other readers of the blog to reach an opinion more in line with my opinion than that of my interlocutor. It's all a bit like question time at the end of presenting a Paper to a conference. The ques [05:33] schestowitz tion from the floor might be a tedious one but nevertheless one expects the speaker to thank the questioner sincerely for the opportunity to say some more, and will then use the opportunity to use fresh wording to make exactly the point in the Paper. Repeating the point using different words might just do the trick, and get the point across to members of the audience who didn't quite grasp it from the Paper itself. So, if the Troll giv [05:33] schestowitz es you such an opportunity, thank him (or her). Otherwise, just choose to make no reply. It's not rude. Rather it's the luxury given by the use of pseudonyms. [05:33] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Adding matter by amending the description to exclude embodiments (Ensygnia v Shell [2023] EWHC 1495 (Pat)) - The IPKat [05:38] *liberty_box (~liberty@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [05:38] *liberty_box_ (~liberty@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [05:38] *rianne (~rianne@3stvfjh5iuw88.irc) has joined #techbytes [05:38] *rianne (~rianne@freenode-7uc.ra8.a7lnth.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Aug 12 [08:40] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [08:41] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes [08:59] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 12 [09:18] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Aug 12 [12:06] *Now talking on #techbytes [12:06] *Topic for #techbytes is: Welcome to the official channel of the TechBytes Audiocast [12:06] *Topic for #techbytes set by schestowitz!~roy@haii6za73zabc.irc at Tue Jun 1 20:21:34 2021 [12:09] *Now talking on #techbytes [12:16] schestowitz[TR]
  • [12:16] schestowitz[TR]
    Customizing COSMIC: Theming and Applications
    [12:16] schestowitz[TR]
    [12:16] schestowitz[TR]

    One of our objectives early on was to provide an easy and meaningful way to personalize your desktops appearance. In order to build customization into the foundation of COSMIC DE, we needed to make sure the design system was themeable.

    [12:16] schestowitz[TR]
    [12:16] schestowitz[TR]
    • [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:16] *You are now known as schestowitz [12:17] schestowitz
  • [12:17] schestowitz
    Customizing COSMIC: Theming and Applications
    [12:17] schestowitz
    [12:17] schestowitz

    One of our objectives early on was to provide an easy and meaningful way to personalize your desktops appearance. In order to build customization into the foundation of COSMIC DE, we needed to make sure the design system was themeable.

    [12:17] schestowitz
    [12:17] schestowitz
    • [12:17] schestowitz [12:17] schestowitz [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *#techbytes :Cannot send to channel (+m) [12:17] *schestowitz gives voice to liberty_box liberty_box_ Noisytoot [12:17] *schestowitz gives voice to psydruid rianne schestowitz [12:17] schestowitz
  • [12:17] schestowitz
    Customizing COSMIC: Theming and Applications
    [12:17] schestowitz
    [12:17] schestowitz

    One of our objectives early on was to provide an easy and meaningful way to personalize your desktops appearance. In order to build customization into the foundation of COSMIC DE, we needed to make sure the design system was themeable.

    [12:17] schestowitz
    [12:17] schestowitz
    • [12:17] schestowitz [12:17] schestowitz [12:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-blog.system76.com | Customizing COSMIC: Theming and Applications - System76 Blog [12:55] schestowitz https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/ [12:55] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.abuseonline.org | Index of /database/Garrett, Matthew ● Aug 12 [15:01] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [15:02] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes [15:02] *MinceR gives voice to Noisytoot ● Aug 12 [17:56] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/08/adding-matter-by-amending-description.html?showComment=1691776036438#c7295108230981339409 [17:56] schestowitz In the discussion about the meaning of description in Art 69, I assume that at the time of the drafting of Art 69, the case of substantive amendments to the description had likely not been anticipated and the description the drafters had in mind was the description as filed. The word description in Art 69 is arguably ambiguous since there are reasonable arguments in favour of the description as filed rather than the (a [17:56] schestowitz mended) description of the patent. In such a case, the intent of the drafters should be analysed according to VCLT in the light of the Travaux Prparatoires, etc.

    The current practice of imposing description adaptations is explicitly justified by the objective of reducing legal uncertainty in the interpretation of claims before national courts, as clear from the press release of July 7, 2022 EPO practice confirmed on ada [17:56] schestowitz ptation of description . This is, however, clearly outside the remit of the EPO.

    In addition, the EPO practice shows a distinct lack of consistency. The requirement to impose amendments of substance in the description entails the risk of new matter, whereas the EPO case law is extremely strict on this topic. In short, the EPO on the one hand asserts the objective of reducing uncertainty in national court proceedings (which [17:56] schestowitz involve a tiny fraction of granted patents), whereas the current practice generates for the patentee a significant risk of revocation on the ground of new matter in opposition or court proceedings. The Ensygnia vs Shell decision illustrates this risk when the amendment is a declaration that a disclosed embodiment is outside the scope of the claims. It does not matter that the patent at issue was a UK patent, the courts reasoning wou [17:56] schestowitz ld have no reason to be different for the UK part of an EP patent. It is of note that the decision acknowledges Art 69 as an overarching principle of claim interpretation.

    The applicant is indeed legally responsible for the content of the patent, but I think it is somewhat cavalier for the EPO to raise this argument to justify its lack of concern for the potential implications of description amendments before court proc [17:56] schestowitz eedings. The EPO is clearly the best placed to assess the risk of new matter, including by drawing lessons from relevant decisions of national courts. This is why I suggest that applicants challenge the description adaptations required by the ED or entered by the ED at the 71(3) stage by requesting that the ED demonstrate that the amendments do not raise a new matter issue.

    A warning as to the risk of new matter should also b [17:56] schestowitz e included in the relevant Guidelines to enhance awareness of the issue by EDs. [17:56] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Adding matter by amending the description to exclude embodiments (Ensygnia v Shell [2023] EWHC 1495 (Pat)) - The IPKat ● Aug 12 [19:01] *jacobk (~quassel@tim33ghqw8zx4.irc) has joined #techbytes [19:19] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [19:31] *jacobk (~quassel@tim33ghqw8zx4.irc) has joined #techbytes [19:50] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 12 [20:27] *jacobk (~quassel@8iz67radqa7vc.irc) has joined #techbytes [20:33] *MinceR gives voice to jacobk ● Aug 12 [22:57] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/08/bad-cases-make-bad-law-has-dabus-ai.html?showComment=1691763711101#c2789389440024122462 [22:57] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Bad cases make bad law: Has DABUS "the AI inventor" actually invented anything? - The IPKat [22:57] schestowitz ">I don't believe the DABUS cases are simply an academic exercise. Once upon a time laws were used to define certain human beings as property (slaves), and so the conversations around AI inventors are going to become more important as AI develops, especially in areas where it is more creative and more intelligent than its 'owner'. Liability for AI actions has been considered in a very serious way by the EU, see https://commission.europa [22:57] schestowitz .eu/business-economy-euro/doing-business-eu/contract-rules/digital-contracts/liability-rules-artificial-intelligence_en. We are going to see many more areas of life being impacted, and needing new legislation in view of AI. IP is no different, but perhaps also offers illuminating aspects on which AI functions we are going to classify as 'human' and 'non-human' especially in terms of who created the IP and who owns it." [22:57] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Could not resolve host: commission.europa; Unknown error ( status 0 @ https://commission.europa )