●● IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Sunday, March 14, 2021 ●● ● Mar 14 [00:58] *genr8_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) ● Mar 14 [03:25] *genr8_ (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #techbytes ● Mar 14 [04:14] *gry has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [04:21] *gry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has joined #techbytes ● Mar 14 [08:05] *gry has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [08:10] *gry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has joined #techbytes [08:19] *gry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has left #techbytes [08:21] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [08:22] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techbytes ● Mar 14 [09:02] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [09:02] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [09:22] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [09:22] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes ● Mar 14 [10:50] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [10:51] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) ● Mar 14 [11:53] schestowitz https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=21/03/08/2145220 [11:53] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-soylentnews.org | The Ongoing Raspberry Pi Fiasco - SoylentNews [11:53] schestowitz " [11:53] schestowitz canopic jug writes: [11:53] schestowitz Developer Gavin L Rebeiro has posted[*see note below] a five-part article series at Techrights on how to deal with the ongoing Raspberry Pi fiasco by salvaging existing hardware with a replacement operating system. [11:53] schestowitz Part I: Acknowledgements [11:53] schestowitz Part II: Introduction [11:53] schestowitz Part III: Fundamentals [11:53] schestowitz Part IV: Doing The Task [11:53] schestowitz Part V: All The Rest [11:53] schestowitz He covers the background, the technical principles, some methods for mitigation, proposes using NetBSD in place of the GNU/Linux, Raspberry Pi OS. Finally, he walks through installation of NetBSD. [11:53] schestowitz We don't want to be spied on; what happens when we're faced with an operating system that spies on people? We throw it in the trash where it belongs! I am boycotting the Raspberry Spy myself (you're free to join me in doing so) but I don't want people to waste hardware that they already have. So we're going to walk through an interesting path of installing a different operating system on the Raspberry Spy; I want to show you a few [11:53] schestowitz things that will empower you to take greater control over your computing. [11:53] schestowitz We'll gently walk through and explore the following: how to install an operating system on an embedded device (a Raspberry Spy, in this case) over a USB-to-UART bridge (UTUB). This is the main project we've got on our hands. Don't worry if you've never touched embedded systems before; everything here is accessible to people with a modest set of prerequisite knowledge and some basic apparatus. [11:53] schestowitz We'll delve into things with more depth as we move forward with our project; if you don't understand something when you first encounter it, just keep reading. [11:53] schestowitz NetBSD might be a bit of a leap for some, so it should be noted that there are other GNU/Linux distros for the Raspberry Pi which do not include the problems addressed above. [11:53] schestowitz The focus of the series is on individual privacy, but a parallel threat exists for institutions because, after the recent changes, any use of Raspberrry Pi OS will show up at their most hostile competitor, Microsoft. The company has had a do-not-lose-to-Linux-at-any-cost attitude for decades and has various slush funds available to fund attacks. EDGI was one such program which did a lot of damage around the world and has been described [11:53] schestowitz in fair detail in the Comes v Microsoft case. [11:53] schestowitz [* Ed's Note (2021-03-12): The author has let us know that his original article is available as a PDF, as techrights' version wasn't faithful. -- FP] [11:53] schestowitz Previously: [11:53] schestowitz (2021) Raspberry Pi Users Mortified as Microsoft Repository that Phones Home is Added to Pi OS [11:53] schestowitz " [11:55] schestowitz " [11:55] schestowitz Needs a better title (Score: 5, Informative) [11:55] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:08PM (#1121540) [11:55] schestowitz You have to read too much of this post to determine that this is related to the update to Raspberry Pi OS which added the PPA for Visual Studio Code. This title might be appropriate if someone was running the 'Fiasco' micro kernel on a PI, but its just not very specific and way too opinionated. I suggest the title "Guide for migrating to NetBSD in reaction to Raspberry Pi OS adding MS PPA". [11:55] schestowitz If you want to stick closer to the current title, do with "A response to Raspberry Pi OS adding the a Microsoft PPA". [11:55] schestowitz We want the title to indicate to reader that this is related to the Microsoft PPA, and Raspberry Pi OS. When I initially read it, I assumed this story was covering some new issue related to the Raspberry Pi hardware. Even now I'm not sure this article is actually about the PPA issue, or something else from the summery here. [11:55] schestowitz Full disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, and a long time desktop Linux user. I have biases on this subject. I do think adding the VS Code PPA via meta-package and not via silent install would have been a better approach, however I think we need a bit of Hanlons Razor here. I don't think the Raspberry Pi intended to spy on anyone with this change, and it would be better to work constructively on educating people on better ways to do [11:55] schestowitz things than saying "Raspberry Spy", "salvaging existing hardware", "fiasco" etc. While I'm happy to have a guide for setting up NetBSD, could be be more educational and constructive, at least in our titles and summaries here on Soylent news? [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This [11:55] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 5, Insightful) [11:55] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:32PM (#1121549) [11:55] schestowitz I don't think the Raspberry Pi intended to spy on anyone with this change, [11:55] schestowitz Correct, it's Microsoft who intended to spy with this change. [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:55] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 5, Informative) [11:55] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:32PM (#1121550) [11:55] schestowitz Not only is the TFS (and presumably TFA as well) unnecessarily inflammatory, I believe it to be incorrect as well. [11:55] schestowitz "any use of Raspberrry [sic] Pi OS will show up at [...] Microsoft" - no, the specific act of attempting to obtain the list of available updates (via apt update or similar) will show up at Microsoft, unless you first modify the apt sources list. There are plenty of uses of the Raspberrry Pi OS that don't involve checking for updates. The way it's written makes it seem like there are currently rootkits installed, that all mouse [11:55] schestowitz movements or keypresses are all sent to Microsoft - which to be fair, with their apt source in there, they could totally push out an OS update containing such a rootkit due to the way that apt sources are trusted. But call a spade a spade, not a lethal weapon - yes you could use a spade to kill someone but the escalation in language isn't conductive to being taken seriously. [11:55] schestowitz A lot of things should have been better. It should have been opt-in, and it should be clearer for how to disable once added, and the response by Raspberry Pi staff could have been done differently to not fan the flames. But this kind of escalation doesn't seem helpful either. [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:55] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:55] schestowitz by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 09, @01:38AM (#1121582) Journal [11:55] schestowitz unnecessarily inflammatory, [11:55] schestowitz Um, this is Micro$erf we are talking, here. The greatest pre-Google source of evil on the planet! They enslaved billions, hobbled what could have been greatest liberatory technology humankind has even invented! They stole their networking stack. They killed DRDos! And what about Stacker? And even now, an Italian still has to sue to not pay for their defective operating system! And finally they are subverting the Raspberry Pi, [11:55] schestowitz after failing with the SCO gambit. How could it possibly be "unnecessarily inflammatory"? If anything, rather understated. [11:55] schestowitz -- [11:55] schestowitz Runaway: Mentally Unfit! [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:55] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 3, Touch) [11:55] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @01:47AM (#1121586) [11:55] schestowitz I also saw them kicking puppies. [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:55] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 0) [11:55] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @01:58AM (#1121589) [11:55] schestowitz No it was clubbing at the seals club. [11:55] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:56] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 1, Funny) [11:56] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @02:12AM (#1121594) [11:56] schestowitz Worse! They standardized letters for disk names and borked file systems, and did not distinguish between upper and lower cases, and limited file names to 8-characters? What sort of evil organization does such things? [11:56] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:56] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:56] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @02:53AM (#1121610) Journal [11:56] schestowitz You're obviously trolling, but I can't find anything untrue or deceptive. [11:56] schestowitz . [11:56] schestowitz . [11:56] schestowitz .. [11:56] schestowitz .. [11:56] schestowitz ... [11:56] schestowitz ... [11:56] schestowitz .... [11:56] schestowitz .... [11:56] schestowitz ....WTF? [11:56] schestowitz Who are you, and what have you done with arirestardichus? [11:56] schestowitz -- [11:56] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [11:56] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:56] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 0, Insightful) [11:56] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @03:21AM (#1121630) [11:56] schestowitz Ari does not troll. He does mock in an exaggerated manner that no one over the age of 9 should mistake for anything serious. [11:56] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:56] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:56] schestowitz by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 09, @04:53AM (#1121662) Journal [11:56] schestowitz But all the mocking is quite true, so it is not mocking from the position of the mocker, only from the position of the mockee. Sucks to be a mockee. [11:56] schestowitz -- [11:56] schestowitz Runaway: Mentally Unfit! [11:56] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:56] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 1) [11:56] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @05:17AM (#1121668) Journal [11:56] schestowitz But far too many of your recent mockeries. [11:56] schestowitz Have been like bathwater; faintly smelling of scaly knees [11:56] schestowitz faintly stnkte; old feces. [11:56] schestowitz Peeeeeeeeeeew. [11:56] schestowitz You say it sucks - to be the mockee [11:56] schestowitz You know in your guts - you ain't no maquis. [11:56] schestowitz You [11:56] schestowitz can't [11:57] schestowitz bring [11:57] schestowitz me [11:57] schestowitz down. [11:57] schestowitz https://youtu.be/BPfkK7bcyfE [11:57] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.youtube.com | Suicidal Tendencies - You can't bring me down - YouTube [11:57] schestowitz -- [11:57] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [11:57] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:57] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:57] schestowitz by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 09, @05:35AM (#1121675) Journal [11:57] schestowitz Already down you are, Arik, with the monospace. Try to realize the truth, there is no spoon. And then the bathwater will smell of roses. I promise. [11:57] schestowitz -- [11:57] schestowitz Runaway: Mentally Unfit! [11:57] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:57] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:57] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @06:31AM (#1121703) Journal [11:57] schestowitz No. [11:57] schestowitz The monospace is the Upfull. The True Fine Love. [11:57] schestowitz Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts, please. [11:57] schestowitz -- [11:57] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [11:57] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:57] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2) [11:57] schestowitz by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 09, @06:09PM (#1121904) Journal [11:57] schestowitz Um, this is Micro$erf we are talking, here. The greatest pre-Google source of evil on the planet! They enslaved billions, hobbled what could have been greatest liberatory technology humankind has even invented! They stole their networking stack. They killed DRDos! And what about Stacker? [11:57] schestowitz You should have stopped right there. Added the part about Microsoft's support of SCO. Then you wouldn't sound too over the top. Arguing to not trust Microsoft's ability to later maliciously "update" software with malicious code would sound more reasoned. (even though it is absolutely true.) [11:57] schestowitz For the record: I haven't trusted Microsoft since about 1982. I can't pinpoint an exact year when it happened, but I don't trust Google. (by "don't trust" I mean suspect of working against my best interest and computing freedom.) There was a time I didn't perceive Microsoft or Google as being against my best interest and freedom. Microsoft was a harmless software vendor who provided BASIC interpreters, development tools, and [11:57] schestowitz Adventure ported to micros. Google was an internet search company who didn't own YouTube. [11:57] schestowitz -- [11:57] schestowitz Reminder: March is national procrastination weak. [11:57] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:57] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 5, Insightful) [11:57] schestowitz by https (5248) on Tuesday March 09, @05:17AM (#1121667) [11:57] schestowitz There are plenty of uses of the Raspberrry Pi OS that don't involve checking for updates. [11:57] schestowitz I am sure such uses exist, but it is hardly abnormal to have them connected to the internet. If you're not updating regularly while connected to the internet, then Bao Than is the proud new owner of the pi. [11:57] schestowitz Microsoft has long ago mastered the art of "this major change should look minor to people who can't study it for several months". If you are not suspicious of them, you are not to be taken seriously. Escalation, as you put it, is a reasonable response to Microsoft sticking their noses into any endeavour. [11:57] schestowitz So bugger off. I smell MS shill fuckery. [11:57] schestowitz -- [11:57] schestowitz Offended and laughing about it. [11:57] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:57] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 3, Funny) [11:58] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @12:23AM (#1121563) [11:58] schestowitz Full disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee [11:58] schestowitz I'm so, so sorry. Do you even know what evil you did in your previous life that required you to suffer so much penance in this one? [11:58] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:58] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2, Interesting) [11:58] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @02:24AM (#1121599) [11:58] schestowitz I get paid a huge amount of money (over 20x my cost of living) to do work I enjoy, and even get to opensource a lot of it and get great benefits. Working for a large tech company is a huge privilege, not a punishment. I easily make enough money I could take 10 years off to find a new job if I wanted. [11:58] schestowitz If you want to meme about Microsoft being evil, I suggest implying I'll suffer in my next life rather than implying my choice to work for them is punishment: that would fit the narrative much better. [11:58] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:58] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 4, Interesting) [11:58] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @02:50AM (#1121606) Journal [11:58] schestowitz "Working for a large tech company is a huge privilege, not a punishment." [11:58] schestowitz This is where you are mistaken. Because karma. [11:58] schestowitz "I easily make enough money I could take 10 years off to find a new job if I wanted." [11:58] schestowitz If that's true and not a lie; if you're a human being and not a cabbage in drag; then do it. [11:58] schestowitz Take 10 years off to make something that helps humanity, instead of destroying us to put more dollars you will never use in the bank. For your heirs, I suppose. [11:58] schestowitz Who your heirs be my brother? How much of that loot do they need? If you were really in it for the people all along, then you spread that loot out to the people, capise? What do you need? A shirt on your back and a belly full of stew; and a muse. A reason to work, that's all you really need, isn't it? [11:58] schestowitz So take 5 years off and hire someone to help keep you on track and producing something. Or, you know, use math from there. Fractions. That's still math, even if they quit teaching it. [11:58] schestowitz "If you want to meme about Microsoft being evil, I suggest implying I'll suffer in my next life rather than implying my choice to work for them is punishment: that would fit the narrative much better." [11:58] schestowitz The only difference is the presumption that you have a conscience. If you have a conscience, then showing up to work is a punishment as well as a source of income. [11:58] schestowitz If you're a psycho/sociopath; then yes we must wait for the next life, or else a catastrophic failure from your dice. [11:58] schestowitz If you have a guilty conscience, if your $opathy wavers... well then you just might wind up confessing. [11:58] schestowitz Confession /is/ good for the soul. [11:58] schestowitz -- [11:58] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [11:58] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:58] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 1) [11:58] schestowitz by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 10, @01:46AM (#1122099) Homepage Journal [11:58] schestowitz No, not because of karma. Because you're working for a big corporation. It wouldn't matter if they saved an endangered species every day and sequestered all the man-made carbon from the atmosphere weekly. The job would still suck compared to deciding your own future. [11:58] schestowitz -- [11:58] schestowitz Name one time in human history where the group banning books and censoring speech were the good guys. [11:58] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:58] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 3, Funny) [11:58] schestowitz by aristarchus (2645) on Tuesday March 09, @06:01AM (#1121689) Journal [11:58] schestowitz I easily make enough money I could take 10 years off to find a new job if I wanted. [11:58] schestowitz But, of course, you will not. You will never have another job. Do you imagine that any tech employer, seeing the Mark of Cain, and the NDA upon you, will even give a second interview? Not going to happen. Instead, you will have take your ill-gotten gains and apply them to your own interests, like transfusions of blood from Younglings (Thiel) or pretending to be a philanthropist (Gates), or hosting Parler after they get [11:58] schestowitz booted from polite society and taking pictures of snowflakes, like Nathan Myhrvold, the Bane of Aasgard. Karma, it comes around. No amount of money can save you from it. [11:58] schestowitz -- [11:58] schestowitz Runaway: Mentally Unfit! [11:58] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 0) [11:59] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @09:47PM (#1122019) [11:59] schestowitz 20x your cost of living? I gotta ask, what do you make and/or where do you live? I hate Microsoft as much as the typical Linux fanatic, but my monthly mortgage + property taxes + utilities + groceries is ~$3k, so 20x that is $720k on an annual. I'd sell my soul to the demons in Redmond for that kind of money, I could pay my kids' college costs and retire in well under ten years. [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 1) [11:59] schestowitz by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 10, @01:58AM (#1122101) Homepage Journal [11:59] schestowitz Mine's about $700-750 with a roommate, so I make somewhere between 4-5x cost of living over a year. I try and plan it out ahead of time and then turn down any work that's likely to push me up over 5x. Time's worth way, way more than money beyond enough to fund necessities and sufficient entertainment+hobbies. [11:59] schestowitz -- [11:59] schestowitz Name one time in human history where the group banning books and censoring speech were the good guys. [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 0) [11:59] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @11:30AM (#1122221) [11:59] schestowitz That's smart. I've got four kids. I've already started telling them they should only go to college or trade school if they have a specific career plan, and unless they get great scholarships they should use state colleges. And of course, I need a house or apartment for six people and a lot of groceries, and we use a lot of power just for showers, dishes, and laundry. Plus we're in a pretty good school district for my [11:59] schestowitz kids' sake, and as you know in the US that means housing is expensive here. [11:59] schestowitz If I was single, I'd be trying to live a lifestyle as efficient as yours too. [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 0) [11:59] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 11, @12:29AM (#1122512) [11:59] schestowitz God willing, you'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 4, Insightful) [11:59] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @01:02AM (#1121572) Journal [11:59] schestowitz Your first three paragraphs were very well written. Helpful. I would encourage you to volunteer. [11:59] schestowitz "Full disclosure: I'm a Microsoft employee, and a long time desktop Linux user." [11:59] schestowitz I, too, am truly sorry for you. And everyone that has to share a universe with you. [11:59] schestowitz "I don't think the Raspberry Pi intended to spy on anyone with this change" [11:59] schestowitz Intention really doesn't matter in this sort of thing though. Whatever the motivation, the effect is irrevocable. The damage cannot be undone. If there was no intent, there was at the very least gross misconduct. Gross negligence. And a complete and utter breach of trust. [11:59] schestowitz "it would be better to work constructively on educating people on better ways to do things than saying "Raspberry Spy"" [11:59] schestowitz If the hobnailed boot fits, wear it. [11:59] schestowitz -- [11:59] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 3, Informative) [11:59] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @01:48AM (#1121587) [11:59] schestowitz I don't think the Raspberry Pi intended to spy on anyone with this change [11:59] schestowitz No, the PI is not. But Microsoft is not to be trusted, ever, and this gives Microsoft a way to inject spyware at a later time whenever they want to. [11:59] schestowitz So the reaction is valid. This should never have gone into the PI OS, ever. And it should be removed just as fast as it was added. [11:59] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [11:59] schestowitz Re:Needs a better title (Score: 2, Informative) [11:59] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @02:58AM (#1121615) ● Mar 14 [12:00] schestowitz ...could be be more educational and constructive, at least in our titles and summaries here on Soylent news? [12:00] schestowitz The mere existence of Windows 10 and its associated spyware, compulsory upgrades, and deceptive conduct during the "free updates", combined with the merciless execution of Windows 7 (the version most people actually wanted) is enough that Microsoft's actions should be considered malicious by default. The Pi Foundation's conduct in the wake of this is telling as well. [12:00] schestowitz So, yes, it's a fiasco, both in terms of Microsoft's involvement, as well as the Pi Foundation's exceedingly poor and suspicious conduct surrounding the subject. [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:00] schestowitz Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 5, Insightful) [12:00] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:20PM (#1121546) [12:00] schestowitz It appears to me that the author is a bit confused and mistakes Raspbian, the 'official' operating system for raspberry pis, with Raspberry Pi, the hardware. The name-calling of it being a 'raspberry spy' is unwarranted and uncalled for to say the least. It looks like someone wanted to drive a little bit more traffic to their obscure blog by being sensationalist, methinks. [12:00] schestowitz if Raspbian OS is such a big problem, why not use https://raspi.debian.net/ [debian.net] which is as pure a Debian as you'll get for a Pi, or any other one of the GNU/Linux distro's that run on the pi? I've been running that on my Pi's for almost an eternity and you don't hear me kicking up a stink like the author does... [12:00] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-raspi.debian.net | Raspberry Pi Debian images [12:00] schestowitz I'm no big fan of microsoft (anymore), but the whole "boo hoo, they added a repo for VSCode and it are the WORST!1!1!eleven" is a bit over the top. You don't like it, go ahead and remove that repo from /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and quit your whining. It's a 'tinkerer device' anyway so go and fucking tinker with it... The worst that can happen is you having to reflash your sd card. [12:00] schestowitz Was that whole adding of an MSFT repo ill-advised? [12:00] schestowitz Was it badly communicated? Yes [12:00] schestowitz Was it dealt with badly? Yes [12:00] schestowitz But remember: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. [12:00] schestowitz And thus: is it an underhanded attempt at secretly taking over the world and spying on your every move on your precious Raspberries? C'mon man, gimme a break... [12:00] schestowitz Question (not a complaint) for the SN editors: Where the heck do these link to? Part 1 (http://techrights.org/2021/03/05/raspi-paper/) claims that there all sorts of outbound links to nefarious things done by the Raspberry Pi Foundation and by Microsoft, but for the life of me, I cannot find those links. That page literally says "The following links go over some of the news coverage from TR:" and while I see a listing of items, they ain [12:00] schestowitz t links. [12:00] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-techrights.org | How To Deal With Your Raspberry Spy Part I: Acknowledgements | Techrights [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This [12:00] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 1, Troll) [12:00] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:35PM (#1121551) [12:00] schestowitz You Microsoft shills sure are verbose today. You got caught... own up. [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:00] schestowitz Re: never attribute to malice that which is adequa (Score: 4, Insightful) [12:00] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 08, @11:55PM (#1121557) [12:00] schestowitz except perhaps when the named vendor has stuck their dick in thousands of worthwhile projects over the years, resulting in reduced functionality, maintainability, and servicability for millions of users. [12:00] schestowitz Maybe, just maybe there are players who don't deserve the benefit of the doubt eh? [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:00] schestowitz Re: never attribute to malice that which is adequa (Score: 0) [12:00] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @12:03AM (#1121559) [12:00] schestowitz I'll give you that, but that doesn't make them any less stupid. Sure, vigilance is warranted, especially given the player, and the company got called out, quite rightfully. And yet, that still doesn't make the article much more accurate. It's still a bunch of crazy arm swaying in the air crying "the world is ending, the world is ending". [12:00] schestowitz That being said, if microsoft was only half as competent as some people try to make them out, they'd be ruling the world by now and there wouldn't be anything but windows. Perish the thought! [12:00] schestowitz So sure, you are correct: some players need more scrutiny than others. In this case, said player received the very warranted scrutiny and the shenanigans were called out. So... the system (and scrutiny) worked??? [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:00] schestowitz Re: never attribute to malice that which is adequa (Score: 0) [12:00] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @03:30AM (#1121631) [12:00] schestowitz The whole point of the pi platform was to drive down development costs. Lower development costs is something that Redmond has ALWAYS interfered with. So I understand the reaction. And no, I don't have a problem with extreme hyperbole when it comes to this vendor, or extreme paranioa about their actions. They have earned it. [12:00] schestowitz Thousands of developers have invested an aggregate millions of dollars in a development cycle, and many of them had proprietary internal business secrets exposes to the most malevolent corrupt corporate institution in tech. Of course they are pissed. It is there livelyhoods we are talking about! [12:00] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:00] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 5, Informative) [12:00] schestowitz by Pav (114) on Tuesday March 09, @01:06AM (#1121574) [12:00] schestowitz Microsoft is the company that not that long ago shifted their European headquarters from Berlin to Munich, some would say as sweetener to encourage the Munich local authority to suppress/end the Munich Linux desktop project... which was basically a LDAP based deployment and management platform for Linux/MS/etc... clients/servers/networks. (One of the successor projects is called FusionDirectory by the way... it's worth a look). You [12:01] schestowitz DON'T think this latest thing won't be used to identify large deployments of RPi's, and to embrace/extend/extinguish? BTW, Google has their fingers in certain Debian packages also... which phone home without the users knowledge (and I'm not just talking browsers here) - can't remember which ones off the top of my head. [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 0) [12:01] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @03:37AM (#1121633) [12:01] schestowitz Not just debian, but many many others. And don't forget to mention how much of the consumer news media on the Internet is owned by them, or has them as a major stockholder. [12:01] schestowitz The scope of their influence over consumers day to day lives is at least as big as googles, it is just structured as different kinds of assets. [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 0) [12:01] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @01:14AM (#1121575) [12:01] schestowitz OK, educate me, is there no link between them? [12:01] schestowitz Was it not the moderators on the official foundation affiliated forum that banned people for objecting to this? [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 4, Informative) [12:01] schestowitz by RedGreen (888) on Tuesday March 09, @03:47AM (#1121635) [12:01] schestowitz It certainly was them scummy bastards that banned me for telling them it was me who gets to decide what goes on my computer not them, it is my PROPERTY... [12:01] schestowitz -- [12:01] schestowitz "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 0) [12:01] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @03:00AM (#1121617) [12:01] schestowitz ...never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. [12:01] schestowitz Windows 10 and the bullshit that comes with it is more than enough to assume malice here, and just about anyplace that Microsoft is involved. [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 5, Touch) [12:01] schestowitz by fido_dogstoyevsky (131) <{axehandle} {at} {gmail.com}> on Tuesday March 09, @05:42AM (#1121680) [12:01] schestowitz ...But remember: never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity... [12:01] schestowitz Nice thought, except that no believable amount of stupidity can adequately explain microsoft's past behaviour; but but a believably large amount of malice can. [12:01] schestowitz -- [12:01] schestowitz It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot. [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz Re:Fiasco... what fiasco? (Score: 1) [12:01] schestowitz by pTamok (3042) on Tuesday March 09, @08:42AM (#1121718) [12:01] schestowitz I've run out of mod points. Yes, I agree. Unbelievable amounts of stupidity, or easily believable amounts of malice. Which is a shame. [12:01] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:01] schestowitz "Raspberry Spy" - absurd (Score: 0) [12:01] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @02:43PM (#1122264) [12:01] schestowitz I read a forum discussion in which a bunch of vegans were bashing other forum users for eating meat. One vegan slammed the other vegans: "Do you people want an exclusive vegan club, or a vegan world?" [12:01] schestowitz I don't care what you think about veganism, my point is that elitism and attacks on outsiders are going to hurt your cause instead of help it. I know more people that have and use Raspberry Pis than I know people that run Linux or *BSD on personal machines, Raspberry Pi is shockingly popular. A few of the Raspberry Pi users I know don't know or care what FLOSS is. If you start a conversation with someone that isn't already a FLOSS [12:01] schestowitz fanatic and throw out the phrase "Raspberry Spy", you just took any opportunity you had to start them on the path to FLOSS fanaticism and euthanized it. [12:01] schestowitz I'm not saying the complaints in the original article are invalid. They're valid. But if the writer wanted to persuade an audience that didn't already include people who hate Microsoft, they failed utterly. [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:02] schestowitz Next Raspberry Pi CPU Will Have Machine Learning (Score: 4, Interesting) [12:02] schestowitz by takyon (881) on Monday March 08, @11:35PM (#1121552) Journal [12:02] schestowitz Next Raspberry Pi CPU Will Have Machine Learning Built In [tomshardware.com] [12:02] schestowitz At the recent tinyML Summit 2021, Raspberry Pi co-founder Eben Upton teased the future of 'Pi Silicon' and it looks like machine learning could see a massive improvement thanks to Raspberry Pi's news in-house chip development team. [12:02] schestowitz [...] The last bullet point hints at what the future silicon could be. It may come in the form of lightweight accelerators possibly 4-8 multiply-accumulates (MACs) per clock cycle. In Upton's talk he says that it is "overwhelmingly likely that there will be some other piece of silicon from Raspberry Pi". [12:02] schestowitz -- [12:02] schestowitz [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org] [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This [12:02] schestowitz Re:Next Raspberry Pi CPU Will Have Machine Learnin (Score: 2) [12:02] schestowitz by RamiK (1813) on Tuesday March 09, @12:17AM (#1121562) [12:02] schestowitz If advertising, how about open hardware? https://beagleboard.org/beaglev [beagleboard.org] [12:02] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-beagleboard.org | BeagleBoard.org - BeagleV [12:02] schestowitz -- [12:02] schestowitz compiling... [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:02] schestowitz What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 0, Disagree) [12:02] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @12:08AM (#1121561) [12:02] schestowitz Don't know. Don't care. Raspberry Pis are off the table now. Can't trust them. [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This [12:02] schestowitz Re:What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 0) [12:02] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @12:26AM (#1121564) [12:02] schestowitz What's left to trust? [12:02] schestowitz I really wish I hadn't sold my Amiga. [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:02] schestowitz Re:What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 2, Interesting) [12:02] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @01:25AM (#1121578) [12:02] schestowitz That makes you as stupid as the author of the article, in that you're conflating the hardware with the software they supply to go with it. You've always had the opportunity to run an alternate OS, and still do. The author even acknowledges this, as the article is about *running an alternate OS*. I used raspian for about 10 minutes before realising it was worse than debian, so ditched it instantly. And when debian became worse than [12:02] schestowitz prior debian, I ditched that for devuan, which runs fine on all my Pis now. [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:02] schestowitz Re:What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 0) [12:02] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @02:31AM (#1121602) [12:02] schestowitz You've always had the opportunity to run an alternate OS, and still do. [12:02] schestowitz Until Microsoft finds the one Ring, the one to gather them all, and in the darkness bind them. [12:02] schestowitz In the land of Redmond, where the shadows lie. [12:02] schestowitz We have the opportunity, but it is not from a lack of effort by the aspiring software monopoly that is Microsoft. FUD? Assimiliation? OEM exclusive contracts? Why can I not, at this late stage, buy a "naked" laptop, and why do I have go through hoops just to disable UEFI, so my other OS will even boot? Microsoft has earned my undying hatred, forever. [12:02] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:02] schestowitz Re:What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 2) [12:02] schestowitz by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 09, @02:48AM (#1121605) Homepage Journal [12:02] schestowitz Purism laptops are pretty close to naked. [12:03] schestowitz They even have the Intel Management Engine disabled by default. [12:03] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:03] schestowitz Purism (Score: 0) [12:03] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @03:45AM (#1122131) [12:03] schestowitz The mention security but use Intel processors. That's a big 'nope' right there. [12:03] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:03] schestowitz Re:What will they try to sneak in next time? (Score: 2) [12:03] schestowitz by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 10, @01:08PM (#1122241) [12:03] schestowitz I ditched that for devuan, which runs fine on all my Pis now. [12:03] schestowitz Its not super well documented; actually thats sarcastic, its barely documented it all. You can't toss that kind of quote out there without more details, sounds pretty interesting. [12:03] schestowitz FreeBSD on Pi is pretty well documented and worked for me. [12:03] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:03] schestowitz Went with (Score: 5, Interesting) [12:03] schestowitz by RedGreen (888) on Tuesday March 09, @12:27AM (#1121565) [12:03] schestowitz Debian after the scumbags at the Pi foundation pulled off their garbage, good riddance my machine is a good 10C cooler and has a load of next to nothing now. It runs headless and with the bastardization of Buster they use it was always running at a load of at least one. [12:03] schestowitz root@buster-raspi:~# uptime | cut -d ',' -f 4-6 | sed -e 's/^[ \t]*//' [12:03] schestowitz load average: 0.04, 0.07, 0.08 [12:03] schestowitz root@buster-raspi:~# vcgencmd measure_temp [12:03] schestowitz temp=46.0'C [12:03] schestowitz Now that is what I like to see a machine doing next to nothing with a load of next to nothing, impossible to achieve with the PiOS as they now call it, the temperature would be north of 60C with their crap. [12:03] schestowitz -- [12:03] schestowitz "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen [12:03] schestowitz Reply to This [12:03] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:03] schestowitz by Marand (1081) on Tuesday March 09, @02:41AM (#1121604) Journal [12:03] schestowitz with the bastardization of Buster they use it was always running at a load of at least one. [...] a machine doing next to nothing with a load of next to nothing, impossible to achieve with the PiOS as they now call it, the temperature would be north of 60C with their crap. [12:03] schestowitz If that's the case I think maybe you messed something up with your setup or didn't quite make it as minimal as you think you did. I've got a Pi 400 that's not even headless, got it attached to a small display running i3-wm, and it's currently idle (0.00 load reported) at 36C (reported by vcgencmd). I don't know what was wrong with your PiOS setup that led to it having constant load like that, but it's definitely not normal, at least [12:03] schestowitz not with the minimal image I started with. [12:03] schestowitz Maybe it's because I treated it like I do Debian installs: grab the smallest command-line-only image possible (netinst in Debian, "Raspberry Pi OS Lite" being the closest PiOS equivalent) and install what I want from there, because anything else just ends up installing crap I don't want. Distros tend to offer more user-friendly software bundles as their default images to be more approachable to beginners (which is good, make the [12:03] schestowitz default the safe choice for people that don't know how to choose) but I'm not a Linux newbie and prefer to start minimal and build from there. [12:03] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:03] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 3, Insightful) [12:03] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @03:07AM (#1121621) Journal [12:03] schestowitz "Maybe it's because I treated it like I do Debian installs: grab the smallest command-line-only image possible (netinst in Debian, "Raspberry Pi OS Lite" being the closest PiOS equivalent) and install what I want from there," [12:03] schestowitz Yeah, maybe it's because you did it right. [12:03] schestowitz Always a good hypothesis. And sounds perfectly plausible. [12:03] schestowitz Here's the thing though; [12:03] schestowitz "Distros tend to offer more user-friendly software bundles as their default images to be more approachable to beginners (which is good, make the default the safe choice for people that don't know how to choose)" [12:03] schestowitz That's just wrong, and shows you aren't even taking into account the information right in front of your face, "TFA" itself! [12:03] schestowitz Everything that they tell you is "user-friendly" is actually "user-hostile." That's not completely true; but it's a lot closer than the inverse. The safe choice for people that don't know what to choose has always been very different from the default, and over time the variance has only increased; to the point that a 'safe choice for people that don't know what to do' is now practically, if not literally, impossible. Sensible [12:04] schestowitz settings in google chrome, for example, will break most popular websites instantly. [12:04] schestowitz It's exactly the people that can't figure out how to do it right that are failed most spectacularly by this system of wide-open defaults. But even larger than that; it's the entire species. Insane defaults have created an ad industry, they buy lawyers, and they also buy Senators; and even the Judges too. [12:04] schestowitz And one of the worst things a society might have to deal with; a corrupt judiciary. [12:04] schestowitz -- [12:04] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:04] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:04] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 3, Touch) [12:04] schestowitz by Marand (1081) on Tuesday March 09, @04:09AM (#1121645) Journal [12:04] schestowitz "Distros tend to offer more user-friendly software bundles as their default images to be more approachable to beginners (which is good, make the default the safe choice for people that don't know how to choose)" [12:04] schestowitz That's just wrong, and shows you aren't even taking into account the information right in front of your face, "TFA" itself! [12:04] schestowitz No it doesn't, it shows that I'm talking about something completely different with that remark: making the default beginner-friendly by not assuming they know things like what a desktop environment is and how to choose one, what packages are needed to enable USB automount, how to configure and install Xorg, what to install to get working audio, and so on. You want the default download of your OS (distro) to cover all the [12:04] schestowitz bases because a beginner doesn't even know enough yet to have an idea of what the extent of things they don't know is, so you provide (possibly unnecessary) extras and more user-friendly optional things that not everyone needs, but enough people will likely want that you should include it just in case. [12:04] schestowitz With a Linux distro you can start from there and try to remove and swap out things, but odds are you're going to have a lot of unnecessary extras to fight with, so while it's a good choice as the default installation option because it provides the easiest path for potential new users, it's not a good choice for someone that wants a more streamlined or customised experience. Even distros like Debian do this, with the desktop [12:04] schestowitz media providing a lot of potentially unwanted junk to make it easier for beginner or intermediate users to get started. The Raspberry Pi, though, is intended primarily as an educational and tinkerer's device, targeting people who will primarily be first-time Linux users, so the Pi OS defaults are aimed even more toward beginners and rightly so. That means it'll potentially end up with things that someone wanting a slim, headless server [12:04] schestowitz installation won't want, possibly sucking up extra CPU cycles and memory, but that's fine because that person isn't the intended use case and should be using a different image. [12:04] schestowitz And this is not just an OS thing, "safe/friendly defaults but let people do something else if they want" is a good design strategy in general. Beginners typically take the path of least resistance, trusting that someone smarter and more knowledgeable than them made good decisions on their behalf, so you want to make that path the smart one for them. When you fail to do that you end up with footguns, like how the Lua [12:04] schestowitz programming making all variables global by default, leading to new users (of which Lua sees many because it's often used in gamedev for modding) making mistakes and getting confused by something that would have been easily avoided if the language had local scope be the default. Languages like C get a reputation for being unsafe and error-prone for similar reasons, because the default path tends to be riddled with landmines that you [12:04] schestowitz learn to avoid with experience but should never have been the default. [12:04] schestowitz Anyway, the point is that you're talking about something different than I was with the random aside I added to my previous comment. You SHOULD be adding extra, possibly unnecessary things to a distro for people that don't know better yet, while giving them the ability to stray from that path as they learn enough to do so responsibly. Considering the increasing popularity of VS Code, that's even arguably true for including [12:04] schestowitz the MS repository into Pi OS. The problem with that wasn't that they did it at all, it's how they did it. It should have been added only to their default, prominently featured download, the one labeled "Raspberry Pi OS with desktop and recommended software" but left out of the "Raspberry Pi OS with desktop" and "Raspberry Pi OS Lite" images, and absolutely SHOULD NOT have been added retroactively to existing installs the way they did it [12:04] schestowitz It makes as much sense (arguably more) as the recommended image including Mathematica, which is available but not provided by default with the "Lite" image. It was a mistake in process, not intent. [12:04] schestowitz I do agree that a lot of times people use default selection in a user-hostile way (like Microsoft foisting mobile games onto users after new installs and sometimes upgrades), but that's a counter-example: things like that are bad defaults exploiting the lack of knowledge of some users. That kind of thing sucks, but most of the decisions made to decide "good" defaults for things don't fall into that category, especially in [12:04] schestowitz the FOSS world; instead, they're usually well-intentioned even if sometimes dumb decisions. [12:04] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:04] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2, Interesting) [12:04] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @04:52AM (#1121661) Journal [12:04] schestowitz "No it doesn't, it shows that I'm talking about something completely different with that remark: making the default beginner-friendly by not assuming they know things like what a desktop environment is and how to choose one, what packages are needed to enable USB automount, how to configure and install Xorg, what to install to get working audio, and so on." [12:04] schestowitz Name a single linux distro that's been vaguely popular in the past 20 years that didn't do all that. [12:04] schestowitz Name. One. [12:04] schestowitz "You want the default download of your OS (distro) to cover all the bases because a beginner doesn't even know enough yet to have an idea of what the extent of things they don't know is, so you provide (possibly unnecessary) extras and more user-friendly optional things that not everyone needs, but enough people will likely want that you should include it just in case." [12:04] schestowitz Nope. Quite the opposite actually. Usually a long reply means someone really cared, but you don't seem to be paying attention at all! [12:04] schestowitz I want the default "download" of my OS (distro) to give me "just the axe, ma'am" and then wait for instructions like a good little computer. [12:04] schestowitz It's an /Operating System/. It provides the /Tools/ to /Operate/ the /System./ [12:04] schestowitz "(possibly unnecessary)" [12:04] schestowitz No, no, no. [12:04] schestowitz There is no such thing. [12:04] schestowitz It's necessary. Or it ain't necessary. Pick one. [12:04] schestowitz "Beginners typically take the path of least resistance, trusting that someone smarter and more knowledgeable than them made good decisions on their behalf, so you want to make that path the smart one for them." [12:04] schestowitz Yeah, that's well-intentioned, and a good part of the problem. [12:04] schestowitz But let's state it plainly. You just don't want the denser examples finding your number and calling you day and night. [12:05] schestowitz You know, you can actually block numbers, in 2021? [12:05] schestowitz Anyway, you took a lot of time to type in a lot of text that basically repeats the same propaganda I've been hearing my whole life. No idea who actually wrote it, but kudos on the legs at least. [12:05] schestowitz It's just a combination of overblown and flat false. Yes, it's good for noobs if the os install gives you some decent, concise summary of terms etc. But it's got to be concise, and point to other resources. Ultimately, the OS install isn't supposed to be where you learn "basics of computing; what are puters, and does it have anything to do with magnets?"AKA CS000100.-994x [12:05] schestowitz No. If you don't understand what you're doing, back out, go read the docs again. [12:05] schestowitz The very WORST thing about MS with their OS is not the product (well wait in 2021 so it might finally be the product after all) but the ridiculous suggestion that they marketed it on to get to this point. That you could be not just "not technical" but positively computerphobic and without any sort of study or learning whatsoever you could now administer a computer. [12:05] schestowitz Well, now they've finally gotten there. They administer your computer for you. And if they don't *currently* monitor every keystroke you enter in near-realtime, well it's only an update away. [12:05] schestowitz What a high price to pay for such a thin illusion of convenience. They still won't read your mind and figure out how you made the screen go black, or tell you how to get it back. [12:05] schestowitz -- [12:05] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:05] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:05] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:05] schestowitz by Marand (1081) on Tuesday March 09, @05:18AM (#1121669) Journal [12:05] schestowitz Thanks for the reminder of why I usually ignore your comments and have them collapsed by default. I attempted to actually talk to you for a change and all you did was insult me, making claims of "propaganda" and suggestions that I'm repeating some party line (presumably paid shilling?) just for having an opinion that doesn't fully match yours. I don't quite get if your insane remark about "No idea who actually wrote [12:05] schestowitz it" is supposed to be implying I'm shilling for MS or Raspberry Pi or what, but it's pretty fucking offensive that I made the effort to actually discuss something just to be casually dismissed and told I didn't write it just because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. And all because I suggested that defaults should cover the majority of use cases and be accessible for people that won't know better, with more advanced options still made [12:05] schestowitz available for the people like most of us here that won't benefit from it. [12:05] schestowitz Well, good job continuing to be the same unlikeable, holier-than-thou cunt you were when I first demoted your comments to -1 purgatory. Even on the rare occasions when you say something vaguely sensible it's not worth engaging with you and dealing with your obnoxious attitude. Who knows, maybe I'll try again in another five years when I have another lapse in good sense. [12:05] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:05] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:05] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @06:08AM (#1121694) Journal [12:05] schestowitz Hey! [12:05] schestowitz "Thanks for the reminder of why I usually ignore your comments and have them collapsed by default." [12:05] schestowitz Umm, you're welcome? [12:05] schestowitz Yeah, you're welcome. I'm going with "you're welcome." Final answer. [12:05] schestowitz "I attempted to actually talk to you for a change and all you did was insult me" [12:05] schestowitz Wait wait wait, wait, what? [12:05] schestowitz Insult you? [12:05] schestowitz Nah I just went back and reloaded and checked. I gave you props. Why you be trippin, yo? [12:05] schestowitz "No idea who wrote it" - nah it's a meme, it's not you. You probably picked it up in childhood, before you remember maybe. We all swim in a sea of memes, the ones we absorb most deeply are the ones we have the hardest time to see. [12:05] schestowitz That was no insult; to imply you're human? Chill. Here. [12:05] schestowitz ___ [12:05] schestowitz (__ `-._ _____ [12:05] schestowitz `-._ `-._ .' `. [12:05] schestowitz `-._ `-._ .=========. [12:05] schestowitz `._ /`-..- . [12:05] schestowitz `-._ . [12:05] schestowitz `-.._______.' [12:05] schestowitz "Well, good job continuing to be the same unlikeable, holier-than-thou cunt" [12:05] schestowitz Oy, oy, oy oy oy oy! [12:05] schestowitz And he's done it. He went and called me a bloody c*nt, he did. [12:05] schestowitz Marand; sir or madam or otherwise encharicaturated as your preference and circumstance might suggest or constrain; [12:06] schestowitz purely at your own preference. [12:06] schestowitz I assume you are a speaker of a variety of English well outside of direct US influence; of /ENGLISH/ English or perhaps a really old Aussie or Kiwi or something? [12:06] schestowitz Yeah, you can't call anyone the "c word" mate. It's just not done. [12:06] schestowitz Not in the US, not even in Canada. Gotta step over the line into Mexico, if you want to get away with that shite over here in the New World. [12:06] schestowitz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYaKUzax8xY [12:06] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.youtube.com | You Can't Say Cunt in Canada - YouTube [12:06] schestowitz "Unlikeable" [12:06] schestowitz /UNLIKEABLE/ [12:06] schestowitz I never asked you to like me. [12:06] schestowitz NO ONE EVER ASKED YOU TO LIKE ME! [12:06] schestowitz Cheers! [12:06] schestowitz -- [12:06] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:06] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:06] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 1, Funny) [12:06] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @07:19AM (#1121707) [12:06] schestowitz This is a new intensity of autism from you. Or is it your Microserft brain implant malfunctioning? Either way, it is entertaining. [12:06] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:06] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 1) [12:06] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Thursday March 11, @01:30AM (#1122540) Journal [12:06] schestowitz "new" [12:06] schestowitz Just how long have you been watching, that you think you have a baseline? [12:06] schestowitz "it is entertaining." [12:06] schestowitz You're welcome. [12:06] schestowitz You should make an account so I can remember who aren't. [12:06] schestowitz -- [12:06] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:06] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:06] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: -1, Troll) [12:06] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @01:45AM (#1122097) [12:06] schestowitz Thanks for the reminder of why I usually ignore your comments and have them collapsed by default. I attempted to actually talk to you for a change and all you did was insult me, making claims of "propaganda" and suggestions that I'm repeating some party line (presumably paid shilling?) just for having an opinion that doesn't fully match yours. [12:06] schestowitz Marand has always been touchy this way. Was back in the day when I used to insult him for fun. [12:06] schestowitz Well, good job continuing to be the same unlikeable, holier-than-thou cunt you were when I first demoted your comments to -1 purgatory. Even on the rare occasions when you say something vaguely sensible it's not worth engaging with you and dealing with your obnoxious attitude. Who knows, maybe I'll try again in another five years when I have another lapse in good sense. [12:06] schestowitz But, he came back. Glutton for insultitude, evidently! Marand! You are a doo-doo head! (Watch! The reaction should be fantastic!) How much does Micro$oft pay you to say such things? (Oh, that should make him blow! ) Hey, Marand, your whining has contributed nothing to the conversation. Even Arik is more of a Soylentil than you are! [12:06] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:06] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 1, Touch) [12:06] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @04:26AM (#1122139) [12:06] schestowitz Luckily they use such an atrocious font making it much easier to just scroll past. Nothing of value will be lost. [12:06] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:06] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:06] schestowitz by Marand (1081) on Wednesday March 10, @06:41AM (#1122165) Journal [12:07] schestowitz That was actually what led to me setting him to foe and -6 karma modifier originally. A few of us tried asking him to stop using the code blocks for general comments and his response was basically "if you don't like it change your font". Tried pointing out that we're using the fonts as intended and the problem was that he's misusing code blocks for general text, which forces other people to see the wrong [12:07] schestowitz fonts at random. He doubled down claiming that fixed-width is the proper way fonts should look and if people don't like it they should override their browser's fixed-width fonts with variable-width ones. [12:07] schestowitz So he basically suggested that everybody on the site should change their code fonts to be bad for reading code just because he wants to see his text as fixed-width but doesn't want to change his font to do it, which is asinine. So I decided a better solution was to fudge the karma system to collapse his comments instead, because that's the kind of shitty attitude I don't generally want to interact with anyway [12:07] schestowitz Win/win. [12:07] schestowitz Every so often he'll respond to a comment of mine and I get a reminder of why his comments are auto-collapsed. I have more pleasant interactions with the ACs at 0 usually. [12:07] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:07] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:07] schestowitz by PiMuNu (3823) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 09, @11:09AM (#1121740) [12:07] schestowitz [12:07] schestowitz 10100000101110110010101110001010101001001100011101010000001011100100100100011110110011101001010100100010100101111000000000011111101110101011011011000100011011110000000000111111010010110001011011110010010000011100110100001001110000000111100111100101101001110000111010101110010010011101011110101000111101111000100111011001101010001010111000010001110011010110001000000110110001010000010101010000111001011101100111111110110011011111100111110011 [12:07] schestowitz 10110011101010111100011111101010011100100011100101010001010111000100000100011000111010110101001101001000100100011100000101100000010110011010010001011111110110110110111011001010000100011110010101010111001110100110001100000111000001010110100110101110101101001111100011011011110110101101111111110010011100110110011000000101110011010100101110010101001010100100011000010110110010101100111001001010110001100000001000100010101010101110010110101011 [12:07] schestowitz 01110111100110011011100011001100011110010000000111111111000110111010100000111101000000011100101100010011001000001110010010011111010100011110111011010110101001111000100101011000101110110000111111011000011000101101101000001001011110111011000000110001111111110010011100100111101110100111100111011010001100010011011100001100010111001110011001001011110111110100000110000001111000001011001011110100101110010011111000110001110010000011010110010010 [12:07] schestowitz 01011010100001011011000010000001111100001100011101010110111011101111000011110010100101110101101011100110101010110110011111111001101011000010011001111100001100110110111011000110110011101100101100000000011111110110111010111001110000101100100010001101001000010111111101001111111100101010001101101000101101011110001100111011111001000110011010111010010111001110101110101011110000011101111111110110001100011100010100101101111110010110001000001010 [12:07] schestowitz 11101111111100100000110011110000001000001101110011001011100111101010111101001010011001010111011011010000111010000011100100000010111000101110010101011111010001001111110011111001000001000010110110100111100111111100011001000111100111101000000000011000000010001101010100001101110010110100 [12:07] schestowitz (Nb: minimal defaults - I don't bother to include the decompression key) [12:07] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:07] schestowitz Re:Went with (Score: 2) [12:07] schestowitz by crafoo (6639) on Tuesday March 09, @03:17PM (#1121830) [12:07] schestowitz Indeed. Your self-interest, your very life is being co-opted, controlled, and tossed out as trash when you are no longer useful. It's good that you recognize this. You may be in a position to protect yourself from the coming Starving Times. [12:07] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:07] schestowitz Trash (Score: 4, Touch) [12:07] schestowitz by SomeGuy (5632) on Tuesday March 09, @12:30AM (#1121567) [12:07] schestowitz We don't want to be spied on; what happens when we're faced with an operating system that spies on people? We throw it in the trash where it belongs! [12:07] schestowitz Please tell me this guy does not own a smart phone. [12:07] schestowitz Well, ok, those do get thrown in the trash every few minutes. But the key there is not to buy another freaking one. Typically you can't just put whatever OSes you want on those. [12:07] schestowitz Reply to This [12:07] schestowitz Got root? (Score: 5, Interesting) [12:07] schestowitz by Rich (945) on Tuesday March 09, @02:22AM (#1121598) Journal [12:07] schestowitz Mark Shuttleworth once put it bluntly when someone rose a stink about some opportunity for Canonical to mess with Ubuntu installations: "We run the repositories, we've got root anyway. You've got to trust us." [12:07] schestowitz Now I can't imagine any organization that the average Linux afficionado would less want to grant root on his or her box than Microsoft. [12:07] schestowitz I'm convinced that this was a deal with the devil. Microsoft wanted a foot in the door, Broadcom/Raspi took the cash and now they have to deliver. If Microsoft wouldn't play foul, they'd be out of (their current) business in a few years. Plus, among English IT people I've met or read from so far, a significantly higher percentage than in other countries were outright arseholes. They don't get the benefit of doubt from me anymore. ( [12:07] schestowitz Whereas, to not generally disrespect the English, people in their motor industry are generally nicer than their international peers; also, the farther away from London, the nicer the people. Must be the City-of-London influence.) Easy prey for MS. MS did that before with other English SBCs (but fortunately no one cares). I wouldn't even be surprised if there eventually is "big" Pi-own silicon and they detach from Broadcom, but if that [12:07] schestowitz happens I'm pretty sure who foots the bill. [12:07] schestowitz Weirdly, hardware-wise, BroadPi is already too entrenched, so one might end in the situation that "no one ever got fired for spec'ing a RasPi". On a personal level, I just hope that Rockchip get the RK3588 going soon. [12:07] schestowitz Reply to This [12:07] schestowitz Re:Got root? (Score: 2) [12:07] schestowitz by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday March 09, @03:12AM (#1121624) [12:07] schestowitz Speaking of "got root?" how hard is it to disable the M$ PPA - after all user pi has sudo with no pass... [12:07] schestowitz -- [12:07] schestowitz My karma ran over your dogma. [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:08] schestowitz Re:Got root? (Score: 2) [12:08] schestowitz by Rich (945) on Tuesday March 09, @09:44AM (#1121726) Journal [12:08] schestowitz how hard is it to disable the M$ PPA [12:08] schestowitz It's relatively easy. Instructions on the net involve a bit of text editing in /etc/apt/... [12:08] schestowitz However, it was sneaked into there by non-standard means, so - trustworthy as they are now - a security-aware user needs to assume that they restore it without consent "by accident" or for some other lame made-up reason. [12:08] schestowitz Switching to "proper" Debian (does Devuan for systemd-haters work on Raspis?) is a reasonable thing to do, if one doesn't want too much change. It doesn't have to be NetBSD as in the article. (But thank heavens, NetBSD stays around and offers a last-resort choice). [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:08] schestowitz Re:Got root? (Score: 0) [12:08] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @04:46PM (#1121879) [12:08] schestowitz I believe Devuan does have a Raspi distribution based on Debian. I would like to switch my deployed machines to it, but a single Raspbian image has run on all deployed versions (1, 2, 3) of the hardware, while I think Debian has separate distros for the CPUs in them. [12:08] schestowitz Can anyone fill in my blanks? I would have tried myself, but it is still hard going into work and having a test bench. [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:08] schestowitz Re:Got root? (Score: 2) [12:08] schestowitz by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday March 10, @03:16AM (#1122120) [12:08] schestowitz Switching to "proper" Debian seems like a lot more hassle than writing a script launched by a daily cron job to just clean M$ out of the PPAs - surprised this hasn't surfaced yet, certainly less disruptive to the community and just as pointed a protest. [12:08] schestowitz -- [12:08] schestowitz My karma ran over your dogma. [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:08] schestowitz Re:Got root? (Score: 2) [12:08] schestowitz by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 10, @01:02PM (#1122238) [12:08] schestowitz (does Devuan for systemd-haters work on Raspis?) [12:08] schestowitz Thats a solid "kinda of" [12:08] schestowitz I would say its a lot less work, and its a lot more officially documented, to get FreeBSD working on a pi. [12:08] schestowitz I need to point out I've never used a FreeBSD Pi outside of headless mode and from memory the default logins were freebsd/freebsd and root/root [12:08] schestowitz From memory there was nothing weird about GPIO access or USB support in FreeBSD but wifi was not fun. My app used PoE to power the Pi so I truly didn't care about wifi drama, although I could imagine wifi only people could get a bit freaked out. I suppose you need wired ethernet to download the stuff you'll need to get wifi working assuming you want/need wifi and can set it up. [12:08] schestowitz Note that there isn't "the pi" there's like three generations now and you get the fun of matching install image to board generation. Not rocket surgery but something to look out for. [12:08] schestowitz These kind of things tend to only improve over time plus or minus firmware licensing drama. [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:08] schestowitz dpkg permissions (Score: 2) [12:08] schestowitz by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 09, @02:51AM (#1121608) Homepage Journal [12:08] schestowitz Is it possible to prohibit dpkg from installing any executables that use root permission? [12:08] schestowitz Reply to This [12:08] schestowitz Re:dpkg permissions (Score: 3, Insightful) [12:08] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @03:16AM (#1121627) Journal [12:08] schestowitz Yep. Just prohibit it (and a bunch of related stuff) from installing anything at all. [12:08] schestowitz Otherwise, not so much. [12:08] schestowitz This is why I instinctively shied away from the thing the moment I first heard of it. The whole premise is you delegate all responsibility over program installation and uninstallation to this /super-cool/ program and from now on instead of remembering how to do it you just ask the program nicely and it does it all for you! [12:08] schestowitz Not a fan of the concept. Not at all. [12:08] schestowitz *I* am root. I do not delegate root. [12:09] schestowitz -- [12:09] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:09] schestowitz Re:dpkg permissions (Score: 0) [12:09] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @03:53AM (#1121637) [12:09] schestowitz "Otherwise, not so much." [12:09] schestowitz I forget what kind of concatenation deb files use, but yeah, the extractor is one of the normal system tools. So you can extract debs without apt-get or dpkg just fine.I've done this a few times over the years to put libreoffice on non-standard distros. It's been a while so I don't remember which tools. [12:09] schestowitz So yes there is. Extract the package, edit it, tar it, move it, untar it. Really most of that can be done with a few lines of shell script. Which is really what a lot of package managers are. I know VOID's whole package management system is written in bash. Which I would consider a feature if the author had bothered to comment his code. [12:09] schestowitz Generally most package managers are about serving distro managers, rather than admins. Which is why they mostly all suck, from a users perspective. [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:09] schestowitz Re:dpkg permissions (Score: 2) [12:09] schestowitz by Arik (4543) on Tuesday March 09, @04:15AM (#1121647) Journal [12:09] schestowitz Yeah, it's like a tar.pkz file; obviously you can extract the contents; not the point. I've used alien, etc. again not the point. The whole idea of Debian package management is to abstract system management so the user never has to trouble his pretty little head. [12:09] schestowitz The primary problem is this encourages the users pretty little head to remain empty, and when he needs help he finds he's unable to even describe the problem in general terms; eventually he is all too likely to expire from asphyxiation, after the vocal track has been completely submerged in saliva for far too many minutes. [12:09] schestowitz And the secondary problem is even when the user knows exactly what's happened, and how to fix it, fixing it breaks the package management system. Which either defends itself like a virus, or is Slackware. [12:09] schestowitz Lord; bless and keep Patrick V. [12:09] schestowitz -- [12:09] schestowitz If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors? [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:09] schestowitz Re:dpkg permissions (Score: 0) [12:09] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @09:41PM (#1122016) [12:09] schestowitz VOID scripting is in bash, but the package manager is in C. That's why it's one of the faster ones out there. [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:09] schestowitz Read all I needed to (Score: 4, Insightful) [12:09] schestowitz by chewbacon (1032) on Tuesday March 09, @04:46AM (#1121659) [12:09] schestowitz I am boycotting the Raspberry Spy myself [12:09] schestowitz Sensationalist shit. I'm with it; and in record time. Grade-A summary. [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This [12:09] schestowitz Great Crimes of History (Score: 2) [12:09] schestowitz by AssCork (6255) on Tuesday March 09, @01:50PM (#1121765) Journal [12:09] schestowitz Microsoft's second-greatest crime was permitting spaces in file/folder names. [12:09] schestowitz Their first was messing with the Raspberry Pi folks. [12:09] schestowitz -- [12:09] schestowitz Just popped-out of a tight spot. Came out mostly clean, too. [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This [12:09] schestowitz Re:Great Crimes of History (Score: 0) [12:09] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @05:17PM (#1121888) [12:09] schestowitz Let me tally up MY list of Microsoft's crimes and slot 'messing with the raspberry pi folks' in to i... oh, look at that, the integer overflowed. I guess the pi-crime isn't even in the running now. [12:09] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:09] schestowitz Re:Great Crimes of History (Score: 3, Informative) [12:10] schestowitz by istartedi (123) on Tuesday March 09, @09:35PM (#1122011) Journal [12:10] schestowitz You're forgetting "hide file extensions" as a default. This resulted in experienced users like myself having things like document.txt.txt on a new machine because I didn't realize they would do such a stupid thing. It resulted in some users running third_party.txt.exe with sadly predictable results. [12:10] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:10] schestowitz really? (Score: 0) [12:10] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, @06:31PM (#1121920) [12:10] schestowitz Oh my god this guy is really pretentious. Installing an OS over UART because of a software repository for VS Code? [12:10] schestowitz Reply to This [12:10] schestowitz UART (Score: 2) [12:10] schestowitz by canopic jug (3949) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 09, @06:57PM (#1121933) Journal [12:10] schestowitz Installing an OS over UART ... [12:10] schestowitz You're not lazy enough. UART is the way to go for least effort. So if you are installing a new system it is the obvious choice. [12:10] schestowitz For the reasons why a new system is required, read the full summary and especially the two links towards the end of it, in the context of the previous article. [12:10] schestowitz -- [12:10] schestowitz Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions. [12:10] schestowitz Reply to This Parent [12:10] schestowitz You DON'T have to use Raspbian..... (Score: 0) [12:10] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 10, @07:41AM (#1122180) [12:10] schestowitz So, the whole meltdown is because Rasbian is 'spying'. Simple fix, don't use Raspbian... [12:10] schestowitz SARPi is SO MUCH better anyway- [12:10] schestowitz https://sarpi.fatdog.eu/ [fatdog.eu] [12:10] schestowitz This isn't hard guys. [12:10] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-sarpi.fatdog.eu | SARPi Project - Slackware ARM on a Raspberry Pi [12:10] schestowitz Reply to This [12:10] schestowitz Get a life! (Score: 2) [12:10] schestowitz by bart (2844) on Wednesday March 10, @03:59PM (#1122292) [12:10] schestowitz What a sensationalist piece of garbage. Put any other Linux distro on the Raspberry PI, that doesn't have the MS repository added. [12:10] schestowitz Reply to This [12:10] schestowitz Re:Get a life! (Score: 0) [12:10] schestowitz by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 11, @12:37AM (#1122513) [12:10] schestowitz Agreed. I wrote this up-thread, but using "Raspberry Spy" as a label automatically alienates any part of the audience that wasn't already a FLOSS fanatic. I am a FLOSS fanatic, and I want to educate and convince more people - not stay an insignificant minority everyone else views as the lunatic fringe. 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