●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, February 18, 2023 ●● ● Feb 18 [04:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [04:09] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [05:56] *techrights[sec] has quit (connection closed) ● Feb 18 [06:04] *tokwe (~tokwe@rbnv8qskr8rgw.irc) has joined #techbytes [06:07] *tokwe has quit (Quit: Leaving) [06:08] *techrights[sec] (~tokwe@rbnv8qskr8rgw.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [08:07] *XFaCE has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:12] *XFaCE (~XFaCE@uzfeivw9fp6ba.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [09:28] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [09:30] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [10:17] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:17] schestowitz[TR]
    helloSystem: A New, Promising Macintosh-like Free Desktop OS
    [10:17] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:17] schestowitz[TR]

    "helloSystem is a desktop system for creators with a focus on simplicity, elegance, and usability. Its design follows the Less, but better philosophy. It is intended as a system for mere mortals, welcoming to switchers from the Mac. FreeBSD is used as the core operating system. Please refer to https://github.com/helloSystem/hello if you would like to learn more about the ideas a [10:17] schestowitz[TR] nd principles behind hello."

    [10:17] schestowitz[TR]

    The developer himself is the founder of another technology, called AppImage, that helps GNU/Linux both users and developers adding and distributing applications for computer in simple ways. We use helloSystem version 0.7 on ThinkPad Core i5 6GB T430 to do the test.

    [10:17] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:17] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.ubuntubuzz.com | helloSystem: A New, Promising Macintosh-like Free Desktop OS [10:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-GitHub - helloSystem/hello: Desktop system for creators with a focus on simplicity, elegance, and usability. Based on FreeBSD. Less, but better! [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    How to Debug C Programs in Linux using gdb
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]

    In layman's terms, GDB lets you peek inside a program while the program is executing, something that lets you help identify where exactly the problem is. We'll discuss the usage of the GDB debugger through a working example in the next section, but before that, here, we'll discuss a few basic points that'll help you later on.

    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]

    Firstly, to successfully use debuggers like GDB, you have to compile your program so that the compiler also produces debugging information that debuggers require. For example, in case of the gcc compiler, which we'll be using to compile the example C program later in this tutorial, you need to use the -g command line option while compiling your code.

    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:23] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.howtoforge.com | How to Debug C Programs in Linux using gdb [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    Computing the UTF-8 size of a Latin 1 string quickly (AVX edition)
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]

    Computers represent strings using bytes. Most often, we use the Unicode standard to represent characters in bytes. The universal format to exchange strings online is called UTF-8. It can represent over a million characters while retaining compatibility with the ancient ASCII format.

    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
    [10:23] schestowitz[TR]
  • [10:23] schestowitz[TR] [10:23] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 520 @ https://lemire.me/blog/2023/02/16/computing-the-utf-8-size-of-a-latin-1-string-quickly-avx-edition/ ) [10:39] *sweating has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) ● Feb 18 [11:38] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:38] schestowitz[TR]
    NCAC and CAA denounce Arkansas Tech Universitys handling of Controversial Exhibition
    [11:38] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:38] schestowitz[TR]

    The National Coalition Against Censorship (NCAC) and the College Art Association (CAA) expressed their deep concern with Arkansas Tech Universitys handling of its on-campus exhibition, Artifacts, by artist Dominique Simmons. According to the artists statement, Artifacts sought to acknowledge the past, good and bad, as it relates to the American South and included fraught imagery. Howeve [11:38] schestowitz[TR] r, the universitys museum did little to contextualize the exhibition, address exhibition critiques, or provide forums to explore controversial issues, thereby failing both the artist and its audiences.

    [11:38] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:38] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ncac.org | NCAC and CAA denounce Arkansas Tech Universitys handling of Controversial Exhibition - National Coalition Against Censorship [11:51] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:51] schestowitz[TR]
    Stargaze from the web browser with an open source planetarium
    [11:51] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:51] schestowitz[TR]

    If you've seen the news recently, you'll have noticed many articles on the comet with the green tail (C/2022 E3) that will only come once in a lifetime for everyone to see.

    [11:51] schestowitz[TR]

    In theory, you can see the comet through a telescope across several days, but I don't own a telescope. So my window to see the comet was down to one night when it would be visible without any special equipment.

    As of writing this article, that would be tonight.

    But as I write this article, there's full cloud coverage and rain.

    [11:51] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:51] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:51] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Stargaze from the web browser with an open source planetarium | Opensource.com [11:53] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:53] schestowitz[TR]
    Mesa, Disk Encryption, Xfce Packages Update in Tumbleweed
    [11:53] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:53] schestowitz[TR]

    This week has provided many openSUSE Tumbleweed snapshots focusing on hardware, graphics, desktop environment and more.

    [11:53] schestowitz[TR]

    From Mesa to the disk encryption package cryptsetup and Xfce software to GraphicsMagick, the snapshots are rolling with new software updates.

    [11:53] schestowitz[TR]
    [11:53] schestowitz[TR]
  • [11:53] schestowitz[TR] [11:53] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-news.opensuse.org | Mesa, Disk Encryption, Xfce Packages Update in Tumbleweed - openSUSE News [11:58] schestowitz[TR] x https://www.techzim.co.zw/2023/02/chatgpt-introduces-subs-googles-bard-stumbles-on-launch-and-microsoft-teams-guns-for-zoom-with-ai-smarts-the-state-of-consumer-ai/ [11:58] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.techzim.co.zw | ChatGPT introduces subs, Google's Bard stumbles on launch and Microsoft Teams guns for ZOOM with AI smarts. The state of consumer AI - Techzim ● Feb 18 [12:02] schestowitz[TR] x https://securityboulevard.com/2023/02/meet-an-open-source-developer-lex-vorona/ [12:02] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-securityboulevard.com | Meet an Open Source Developer -Lex Vorona - Security Boulevard [12:11] schestowitz[TR]
  • [12:11] schestowitz[TR]
    Rockchip based SBC features PoE connector and M.2 SATA support
    [12:11] schestowitz[TR]
    [12:11] schestowitz[TR]

    The URVE Board Pi is a Single Board Computer based on the 4-core Rockchip RK3566. This SBC comes with 2GB RAM, 8GB of eMMC, dual displays support, dual band Wi-Fi, BT 4.2, 1x GbE LAN, 1x M.2 slot for SSD and many other peripherals.

    [12:11] schestowitz[TR]
    [12:11] schestowitz[TR]
  • [12:11] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/rockchip-based-sbc-features-poe-connector-and-m-2-sata-support/ ) [12:28] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@cbcfptirpkfqa.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [13:31] *undenominationalize (~AbBAp4Cln@freenode-5v8.hmr.rd27ao.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [15:22] *Moocher5254 (~quassel@i7sfqsqsuqk4i.irc) has joined #techbytes [15:32] *Mio14 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) ● Feb 18 [19:06] *psydruid has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [19:07] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [19:18] *undenominationalize has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) ● Feb 18 [21:48] *unslackening (~vonnatura@freenode-q5n.ptl.7ookp1.IP) has joined #techbytes [21:53] *Mio14 (~quassel@freenode-38h.9di.ql58tb.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Feb 18 [22:22] *Mio14 has quit (Connection closed) [22:23] *Mio14 (~quassel@freenode-gj4.hf0.k9nair.IP) has joined #techbytes [22:54] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) ● Feb 18 [23:21] schestowitz[TR] https://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2023/02/11/concerns-about-deteriorating-patent-quality-at-the-epo/ [23:21] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Concerns about deteriorating patent quality at the EPO - Kluwer Patent Blog [23:21] schestowitz[TR] "A quality problem at the EPO? You must be mistaken! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 11, 2023 AT 9:39 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In view of the massive criticism uttered by the IPQC, the patent quality charter of the EPO can only elicit a weary smile: [23:21] schestowitz[TR] https://www.epo.org/about-us/services-and-activities/quality/policy.html [23:21] schestowitz[TR] If everything announced in this document would correspond to the reality, the IPQC would not come with its very pointed proposals. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It is manifest that the IPQC is not satisfied with the quality discussions in SACEPO. If this would be the case, their proposals would be redundant. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] That the quality of the work delivered by the EPO is going down does not come as a surprise. One has just to look regularly at decisions published by the BA. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The number of patents revoked is higher than the number of patents maintained in amended form. The number of rejections of oppositions is much lesser than the number of patents maintained or revoked. In the early days of the EPO, the proportion was for each category 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. Nowadays it is more 40% maintenance, 45% revocation and 15% rejection. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When the opponent brings novelty destroying patent literature and the search report mentions a lot of documents of the category X or A, it is difficult to claim that the search was optimal. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The same applies when the opponent brings forward prior art under Art 54(3), sometimes from the patentee itself. The number of cases in which an opposition is decided on the basis of documents which were not available in the search files (public prior use, PhD dissertations, catalogues etc.) is very low. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The number of cases where the opposition is rejected or the patent maintained in amended form and the patent is revoked at the end of the appeal procedure is dangerously increasing. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In the early days of the EPO, the search was comprehensive and the examination as well. There was no piecemeal approach. Examiners had time to do their work properly. Nowadays quality at the EPO resumes itself to timeliness. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Looking at substantial procedural violations reveals that the two other members of the division, be it examination or opposition, often simply sign what has been proposed by the first examiner. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] How do you want to ensure that members of the examining/opposition divisions spend sufficient time together for every application/opposition to discuss the proposal of the entrusted examiner when the examiners are discouraged to come into the buildings of the EPO? The action started by upper management called Bring teams together has the opposite effect in spite of the name. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] How do you want to have a proper training when the initial training has been reduced to two years due to the 5 years contracts offered to examiners? How do you want to ensure continuous training when examiners only get a permanent job after two 5 years periods? As the examiners can be easily be fired for incompetence, which is not achieving ludicrous ever increasing targets, why should the EPO spend money on continuous training? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When you read the quality report of the EPO sent to the AC, it is full of very verbose prose which try to hide reality. The AC appears gullible, the IPQC is not. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] How do you want examiners to really have a common view, when OP are only held in form of ViCo and the members of the divisions can sit at different places? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] By the way, what is the legal basis in the EPC allowing members of the deciding bodies, divisions of first instance or boards of appeal, to sit in different places during oral proceedings? I could not find one in the EPC. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The problem lies not only with the upper management of the EPO, it is also with the Administrative Council which nowadays simply rubber stamps the desiderata and wishes of the 10th floor. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Just two examples: [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The boards of appeal have been sent at a high cost to Haar a few years ago. Now they will come back to one of the buildings next to the Main Station. If the AC would carry out his job of controlling the office such a waste of money would not be approved. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The AC has accepted that examiners from national offices can come and work at the EPO. What is the legal basis for this? No delegation to the AC could give an answer. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Should the trend clearly discernible with oppositions translates in revocations or limitations of patents decided by the UPC, the big industry has to worry a lot. On the other hand the fees are there to clearly advantage patent holders. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It appears right to start at the source, i.e. at the EPO, and not continuously accept the soothing words about quality uttered on the 10th floor. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Concerned Whistleblower [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 12, 2023 AT 1:32 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Maybe the IPQC would be interested to know that the pressure to reach more than 53K R71(3) communications before the end of May has gotten so high on line managers that they now routinely resort to instructing examiners not to spend more than a certain amount of hours on a search or examination action. Individual production is monitored on a bi-weekly basis at least. Time off work is discouraged. In the last weeks examiners are bein [23:21] schestowitz[TR] g put under immense pressure to grant everything they can and put non-grants on hold in order to overachieve the COOs instructions. TMs are clearly incentivised to reach these targets as their bonuses and grade and career advancements are made contingent on these being attained. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In the most complex technical fields that routinely took 2.6 days per product (thats the internal language for a final action in search or examination) in the last few years, it has been decided by management that they cannot be more than twice as slow as the fastest technical fields that currently require 1.1 days per product on average. In 2023 no team is allowed to be slower than 2.2 days per product. How an increase of 20% in [23:21] schestowitz[TR] speed for large swathes of the office (mainly in CII !) can lead to an increase in quality baffles the mind. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Above average is the new normal. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Examiners are being pressured to ignore non-important aspects such as non-essential clarity (whatever that is) or minor Art 123(2) objections (the applicant is responsible for the text) in order to further speed up the process. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The internal narrative is that most applicants never litigate anyway and that the scope of granted patents will thus mostly never be put up to the test. Because the number of filed oppositions is stable enough, management is satisfied that everything is fine. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] As always examiners are petrified of speaking up. Most are resigned and follow whatever instructions come from above in order to be left alone, hoping that theyll make a better chance at maintaining their already diminished career perspectives at the cost of the future of the patent office and patent system. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Did I mention that sick leave is at an all-time high? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] law sniffer [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 12, 2023 AT 2:41 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] I have the strong impression (almost certainty, I would say) that more and more examiners concentrate only on very formal aspects like description, unfounded non-clarity issues or lack of a literal basis for amendments, and not on the real substance of the applications. But not all of them, so I wonder whether the statistics above apply uniformly across the whole population of examiners, and I personally think this is not the case b [23:21] schestowitz[TR] ecause I see a pretty fixed pattern examiners-behaviours (and these bad behaviours come more often from people longer at the EPO, as far as I could meet them or notice the names). Sorry for telling this but you should also enquire your self or some of your colleagues before looking for causes somewhere else, we all have time and personnel issues but these must impact the least on our way of working, it is a matter of professio [23:21] schestowitz[TR] nalism. And, again, I am convinced that your work conditions are surely not worse than ours, in spite of your recent changes: as an example, the flexibility after the pandemic that took some office space or the possibility to meet in person during hearings, as I understood, gives you the freedom to work at any time or day of the week from wherever you want (with some minimal limitations), this would everywhere else be considered to [23:21] schestowitz[TR] surpass the downsides, but apparently not for you. And dont start now with the usual expat stories, we all had to change city or country and most of you are from the country of employment or were already there before joining the EPO. Or asking why I am not applying at the EPO, because I could say the same about you if you are so unhappy there. Perhaps your management is really incompetent or pursues sometime interests other than [23:21] schestowitz[TR] the ones of their staff (also not to generalise though, exactly like for you examiners, and in any case I would not be so surprised in such a large semi-public organisation which on top has to balance the books at the end), but I have the impression that many examiners dont pursue the interest of the EPO either which is also quite serious, a typical attitude for me of an employee who works as a sort of permanent judge and has time t [23:21] schestowitz[TR] o battle against any potentially negative work change. Again, some examiners (less and less, but still not so few) are, on the contrary, exemplary but I dont think that the attitude I am reading in these comments goes in the direction of reversing this trend. Seeing the incompetency of your managers or, in some cases, even their uselessness does not give you the permission to lower your commitment or the quality of your work which t [23:21] schestowitz[TR] o my opinion would not by magic surge if you get less actions to do in the year, because I am not sure at all that this additional time would end up in working time (maybe yes for the good examiners whose quality is already high, but not in the case of the problematic examiners). What should be done at the EPO is to have people who dont see the EPO or the applicants as enemies, but see them at least at the same lev [23:21] schestowitz[TR] el of the public, this can be done by recruiting (I see more and more people who should soon retire) and changing the philosophy of many examiners, which is very difficult at the EPO and the management does not seem to be up to it. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Concerned observer [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 10:34 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Perhaps your management is really incompetent or pursues sometime interests other than the ones of their staff [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Well, delete the word sometime and I might agree with you. There is ample evidence: consider, for example, the judgements of the ILO AT on breaches of fundamental rights, as well as the wildly inaccurate (and completely unjustifiable) assumptions in the 2019 financial study that the EPO has used as an excuse to suppress staff wages and benefits whilst simultaneously squirreling away large surpluses each year. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] By the way, I would encourage you to reflect on how quality at the EPO has evolved over the years. My experience is that, since the last decade, it has been on a steep decline. If there is any truth to comments from individuals such as Concerned Whistleblower, it is easy to see how the actions and policies of the EPOs management could be directly responsible for that decline in quality. So why are you so keen to pin t [23:21] schestowitz[TR] he problems on bad examiners? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Please chose the right target [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 10:40 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] @ Law Sniffer [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Already in your comment of Feb 4th in the post EPO consultation on EPC and PCT-EPO Guidelines you showed very little understanding for examiners at the EPO. You continue here. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] You do not seem to have realised that the examiners are playing with the system exactly in the same way that the system plays with them. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Who could blame them. besides some people with very specific gripes, for whatever reason. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Examiners are as much aware about the interest of the EPO as the upper management does. Work changes are normal. What is happening at the EPO is a kind of Echternachs procession: three steps forward and two steps backwards. For every improvement there is a high price to pay. This is wearing to say the least. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When for instance, you are constantly told that new IT tools warrant as such an increase in production although they do not work as they should, is simply denying people any right to defend themselves. The situation is worse for formalities officers. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When you get instructions, and this is not a recent occurrence, to limit the time spent for searching and go to grant as quickly as possible it shows the incompetence and uselessness of the managers. It is nothing new that decisions are taken by people who do not have the faintest idea of what the work consists of. That this cannot be without any consequences is pretty manifest. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It is the management that forces staff to deliver a Smart when users of the system are paying for a Rolls. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Not the other way round. It is thus not a surprise that only few examiners can cope, but this is not a reason to bash on the other. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In view of the situation you have every right to be dissatisfied, but it is not by hacking on those at the bottom line who are actually carrying out the work That big users of the system now officially complain about the quality delivered by the EPO should give you food for thoughts and not simply bash on examiners. Big users are not any longer gullible to what the upper EPO management repeats like a Tibetan praying mill turning in [23:21] schestowitz[TR] the wind: our quality is excellent and our users are satisfied. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Where do you know that most of the examiners are from the country of employment or were already there before joining the EPO? This should actually alarm you as the mix of nationalities present in the early days is dwindling. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In view of the conditions presently offered, people with professional experience and a family are not inclined to seek a job at the EPO when they have to sever every link with their national social care system and pension scheme. By recruiting people more or less directly from university it is no surprise that they do think that the grass is greener on the other side. But recruitment is a management policy. Do not blame the people r [23:21] schestowitz[TR] ecruited. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The EPO is having difficulties in recruiting. A good scientist or engineer with a good knowledge of foreign languages does find other opportunities than to work for the EPO. And on top of this the training has been reduced by a third. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Experienced examiners are leaving the EPO as soon as they can afford it. Lots of excellent trainers are hence missing. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] You have here some examples of the fundamental problems which necessarily have a negative influence on quality. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Complain at the right place, but stop bashing examiners. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Whatever [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 15, 2023 AT 7:21 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Mister lawsniffer, [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Excuse me but it seems to me that you want EPO examiners to be very smart when they search and examine applications, and completely stupid when they think about what is in their interest. You want them to know and to care about what happens outside, and to be deaf, blind and dumb about what happens in the EPO buildings. Turns out that examiners are not stupid. They adapt to their work environment. They follow the orders theyre gi [23:21] schestowitz[TR] ven. And the examples theyre given too. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Caballero [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 12, 2023 AT 11:04 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] In 2022 EP grants were down 40% from 2020, approximately 1000 grants per week. Steady growth combined with a slow down in prosecution result in a growing backlog of pending files. How long can the EPS handle this? 50k files per year! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] EP quality, labor disputes at the EPO, introduction of UP/UPC are under constant fire from one interest group or another, but if you cannot process files at a rate similar to that of entry, youve got a problem. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The EPO needs maintainable resources to handle existing and new files, structured for growth. Once the resources are in place, quality related objectives can be redefined or fine tuned. Trying to do this the other way around may require more time than the system can support. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] And there are no real options as most European national PTOs do not have the manpower to handle additional volume directly. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] RIP? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Concerned Whistleblower [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 1:05 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Dear law sniffer, [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Im terribly sorry that youve had to endure so many bad experiences with examiners in particular and the EPO in general. Most of my colleagues try to do right by the public and the applicants irrespective of managements unreasonable constraints. They are truly putting themselves at the service of public and applicants. But I have to acknowledge that we also have bad apples. An organization with 4000+ examiners cannot avoid t [23:21] schestowitz[TR] his. It is managements task to weed the bad apples out. But they dont as most bad apples produces many many products. Instead they ask everyone to aspire to produce as much as the high producing bad apples. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Make no mistake, being given more flexibility to work from home is great. No one complains about that. But that does make the work plan more realistic. Nor does it mean that we should be working 60 hours a week in return. Most examiners are going the extra mile and doing an honest work. But for how long can they continue to abide by their professional standards without support or recognition? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] What I can tell you from my own decade+ in this environment is this: [23:21] schestowitz[TR] 1) The better examiners more concerned with the applicant, the substantial matter and the public service are overrepresented in slow technical fields. Correlation? Yes! Causation? Maybe not entirely, there are many professional and dedicated examiners in the fastest fields, but for the most part: yes! Reading takes time. Honest feature mapping takes time. Writing detailed opinions takes time. If you need to do all that a [23:21] schestowitz[TR] nd the formal aspects for 15-30 claims with 3/4 prior art documents of 20 pages in less than day youll frequently run into trouble. Many examiners are therefore tempted to take the easy route and only adress the most obvious issues superficially. Thats human. But it is encouraged by internal performance metrics and 10% yearly target increases. Even if most people work more than 40hours a week and even more so since the flexibl [23:21] schestowitz[TR] e home working arrangements, at some point many realise that they can get away with crappy work in 40hours instead of good work in 50 or 60. Not everyone can be expected to be infallibly dedicated to the cause and put in ever increasing hours. Yes Im sure you work more hours, but we joined the examiner side precisely because we did not want the 24/7 80 hour workweek of attorneys. (By the way, how does it work on your side? Do you [23:21] schestowitz[TR] have targets and priorities? Who decides on your objectives? Honestly Im curious to know how it works for you. ) [23:21] schestowitz[TR] 2) There is a huge gap between Munich and The Hague. This dichotomy has always existed since the BEST times. It has however significantly grown in the last 5 years as the sites and technical fields have been de facto split in such a way that no effective substantial or procedural cross site communication between examiners exists anymore. No wonder that our sites diverge ever more in practice and apply different standards for quality [23:21] schestowitz[TR] or inventive step. This is a pity as it creates added frustration and a feeling of arbitrariness of the decisions by the EPO. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] 3)Please bear in mind that pushing examiners like crazy over many years, as has been the case especially these last 5 years, will result in more burnouts and lesser quality in the long run. Already now burnouts are the number 1 cause of sick leave. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Dont get me wrong we have to do our part in delivering pertinent and qualitative opinions and products. But the working environment must provide the necessary conditions for this. Constant management by fear and ever increasing targets cannot work out in the long run. Especially when there are no career prospects and no (human) recognition of the efforts. And everyone (on a permanent contract) is in for the long run. At some poin [23:21] schestowitz[TR] t everyone reaches their limit and just doesnt care anymore. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] You might be wary to wish for more temporary 5 year contracts. I cannot see any path to increased work ethic with respect to substantial quality and pertinence in an organization mainly staffed with temporary contracts. Theyll do the numbers, but will they care about the quality ? After all they wont depend on the continued success of the organization for the rest of their career or retirement! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] 4) The AC wants more grants. The President wants less staff to reduce liabilities and costs. Both are fair and reasonable business goals. But, how can working towards both objectives in parallel work out fine for substantive quality? Were only replacing 80% of examiners , yet our long term plan sets out stable or increasing amount of products. Is this sustainable? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Oh, did I mention that the share of non-producing overhead staff (everyone but those dealing with the patent grant process directly) has doubled in the last decade? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] A quality problem at the EPO? You must be mistaken! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 4:27 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Dear Concerned Whistleblower, [23:21] schestowitz[TR] I can only support what you have said. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It was a political decision of the then VP1 to consider that Munich and The Hague were on a par. He was a former search examiner in the predecessor of DG1, the Institut International des Brevets. He has never been confronted with examination. He even considered examination as a useless play with words. In spite of being debatable as such, searches should be as comprehensive and correct as possible. This is not the case anymore, and [23:21] schestowitz[TR] for a long time. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Everybody knew that The Hague and Munich were not aligned and that there were big discrepancies. They have not diminished with time. In the early days of BEST, there were real exchanges between the two sites, but in view of the costs and time involved this was quickly put to an end. Sadly. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It is also easier to go from examination to search than the other way round. The upper management, not even necessarily the president at the time, never accepted that during training examiners should have dealt first with examination rather than to start with search. Once you know how to examine you are better geared for searching, especially when the search is nowadays purely electronic. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Examiners in the first year only learn how to churn out a maximum of searches with an opinion and that is everything. They should bring about 80% as many searches as experienced examiners. As they do not have to deal with replies immediately, they can produce more searches. As such this is not wrong, but the support stops rather quickly after the first year, now the whole training is two years. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When the replies come, then the problem starts. Inducing examiners to quickly grant easy files does not improve the situation as it means that difficult files will be left in the cupboard and will not disappear. The hope of the management is that after a few years the applicant loses interest in the application and withdraws it directly or indirectly. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Do not forget that a few years ago the upper management came with the idea of postponed examination as it was known in The Netherlands or Germany. The reply of the users was loud and clear and the idea was quickly dropped. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] This shows that lots of decisions at the EPO are taken by people who do not have the faintest idea what the work consists of, but have authoritative and peremptory views on these subjects! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] From day one, there has always been a big administrative overhead at the EPO. It is not completely wrong in view of the overall duties of the office, but the EPO resembles more and more to a Mexican Army with lots of generals but less soldiers actually bringing the money in. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The career possibilities for examiners, for instance becoming directors have been severely curtailed. Directors are now in charge of dozens of examiners and an intermediate level, team managers, has been introduced. One can wonder what directors and principal directors in DG1 are actually doing all day. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] According to the documents of the Interim Committee which was set up after the signature of the EPC, a director should have been in charge of 12 examiners. It was considered that this figure would allow a director to properly help and guide his examiners. 12 might have been too little, but if a director want to correctly do his job 30 examiners are an upper limit. Nowadays team managers, which nevertheless stay examiners, do t [23:21] schestowitz[TR] he work previously devolved to directors. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The only possibility to evolve for an examiner is to end at the boards of appeal. However, the upper management has introduced two classes of examiners. Those dealing with oppositions and those who do not. It simply costs too much if all examiners are trained in opposition. That oppositions are not filed in all IPC classes is not an excuse. Dealing with oppositions is part of the general culture of an examiner. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When an examiner wants to join the boards of appeal, he is invited to present decisions he has for a large part written himself. If he is not examiner in a specialised opposition directorate, he will never write a decision and the only possibility left to climb the ladder is closed. Encouraging isnt it? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The number of directors in parts other than search/examination/opposition has skyrocketed. And you wonder why examiners are desperate? Being hired on a 5 year contract is also not encouraging and for fear of being fired, those poor people will do what they are told. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] On a par with an appalling system of complaints with no real possibility of redress (the ILO-AT is actually useless and only acts in flagrant cases or when the rules have not been followed), why should one wonder at what is happening at the EPO for the last 10 years? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] NordicObserver [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 9:10 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Oh well, didnt this all start years ago with the EPO(nian) slogan Timeliness is quality? The strange reality where being faster would somehow equal a higher examination quality. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Now that DG1 is on permanent homeworking, communication wihtin the Divisions has, according to my information, mostly deteriorated. As sad state of affairs, as well-functioning Divisions is one of the cornerstones of EPO quality. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Anyway, hope that the EPO hears the IPQC message! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Patent robot [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 9:40 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Nowadays the bigger threat to patent quality at the EPO are the new illogical, dangerous and unfounded requests to amend the description, which of course are not the fault of the examiners. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Having one page of objections of inventive step and several pages of requests to amend the description make applicant want to file national instead of using the EPO. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] What a nightmare! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Please chose the right target [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 3:15 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] I was waiting for the old rant about amending the description vs amended claims. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] As long as the boards will remit to the OD in order to adapt the description to the maintained claims, the same will happen in examination. And rightly so. The three decisions to the contrary weigh little in this respect. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The problems brought forward by the IPQC are much more serious and represent a real threat for the EPO and its reputation. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] If the search is not carried out properly, any examination as good as it might be will not improve matters. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] When examiners do not have time to properly carry out their searches and raise well reasoned objections, dont be surprised that many will fill their communications with for you strange stuff and care more about the appearance than the substance. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Remember that too many direct grants are suspicious. So throw in the odd X even if they are not real X documents, spice your search report with a few Y documents and just ramble about all this. If the applicant replies and say boooh the grant is there and everything is honky dory. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] What will you do before a court when it turns out that your patent is not worth the paper it is printed on? [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The description even not adapted to amended claims will not help very much! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Enjoy the EPO! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 13, 2023 AT 8:02 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] IPQC: [23:21] schestowitz[TR] -Provide examiners with a sufficient amount of hours to search [23:21] schestowitz[TR] -Ensure that members of the examining division spend sufficient time [23:21] schestowitz[TR] -Allocate a sufficient time budget to make sure that [23:21] schestowitz[TR] -Continuous and trackable external training of examiners [23:21] schestowitz[TR] EPO: [23:21] schestowitz[TR] reduced search time every year [23:21] schestowitz[TR] cut examination time every year [23:21] schestowitz[TR] members of division have now zero time to discuss anything [23:21] schestowitz[TR] deleted all technical training [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Examiners kept protesting about this nightmare since Battistellis era. Nobody could care less. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] This is the obvious end result. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] I am retired since last June. Never took a better decision in my life. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Enjoy the EPO! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Alfred [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 14, 2023 AT 6:15 PM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Its about to get worse too. Business methods and software patents will see an unprecedented rise in granted applications in the coming 12 months. Examiners are being blocked from sending summons and being told to issue a further written opinion. But examiners cant reach their targets this way, and their only solution is more grants. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The management bonus structure is directly linked to the number of issued patents! [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Another examiner [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 15, 2023 AT 10:31 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] It is clear to me that there is a problem, but I am not entirely sure what aspect the IPQC wants the EPO to address in priority. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The EPO management seems to think that the main concern of the industry is consistency and efficiency of the examination procedure. Basically: find all relevant documents at search stage, raise all objections in the first communication (also at search stage) and, ideally, point at a way to solve the objections (please note that this approach ignores that some applications are poorly drafted and it is not always obvious at first to f [23:21] schestowitz[TR] ind out what is the actual invention to be searched and examined). If this is what the IPQC want, the EPO management is set to deliver, therefore it is probably not their main concern. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Another aspect is, basically, what applications the EPO should reject. That is what the layperson would normally understand by quality of patents, but may not be what the EPO management wants. Does the IPQC want the examination criteria to be tightened so that more applications are rejected or their claims considerably limited? If this is what they want, they should clearly say what tighter criteria the EPO should apply. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Another examiner [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 15, 2023 AT 10:39 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] As to the aspects of pressure put on examiners, etc Sorry to point the obvious, but the figures for the EPO budget are readily available so the IPQC can check them if they want. They can also inquire about the budget for technical training and insist to get figures that separate training in the industry or universities and training for new tools (which is necessary, since the EPO changed all the search tools) or the fire safety e [23:21] schestowitz[TR] xercises, etc [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Another examiner [23:21] schestowitz[TR] FEBRUARY 16, 2023 AT 10:25 AM [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Another thought on the subject. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] First, independent studies show that the level of stress amongst the examiners is very high. From this results, we know that they are already under strong pressure at work. Examiners work hard, at least most of them. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Second, the IPQC requests more work. If examination and search are to be done by 3 persons independently, it will roughly take 3 times the work, for example. Regular courses also take time. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] Third, under the present system, examiners get no deductions of time. Examiners get an objective, a number of products at the beginning of the year and will be noted on how they achieve it. When they are sent to a course or are instructed to discuss a case with other members (and to document that in writing), the objective does not change. They have to somehow find the time. Courses and new procedures are supposed to be cos [23:21] schestowitz[TR] t neutral, meaning at the end of the year the EPO has the same number of staff and the same number of patents. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The IPQC requests regular technical training, for example. That is indeed a very good idea, but they should also request that the EPO hires more people or be prepared that the EPO examines less patents. The other option is simply that the examiners have less time for examination and that will not improve quality. [23:21] schestowitz[TR] The EPO has surpluses which could be invested in hiring more examiners, for example. But the effects will only be felt after they are trained." [23:21] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.epo.org | EPO - Our quality policy [23:44] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [23:48] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [23:52] *Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). [23:52] *Now talking on #techbytes [23:53] *lightbringer (~mincer@freenode/user/lightbringer) has joined #techbytes [23:53] *kermit (sid393220@freenode/user/kermit) has joined #techbytes