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| schestowitz | >> I will wait until we have credible info. Would rather say nothing than | Sep 19 04:24 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | >> repeat a bunch of crap. | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > +1 | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > Accuracy is very important. | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > So far nothing has turned up in patent blogs. If it was good for team upc, they'd say something by now. | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | > I have it queued up man. I haven’t had a chance to dig up old trauma between my garden and a few other passion projects. | Sep 19 04:24 |
| schestowitz | No worries, no hurry :-) | Sep 19 04:24 |
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| *Now talking on #techbytes | Sep 19 16:51 | |
| *Topic for #techbytes is: Welcome to the official channel of the TechBytes Audiocast | Sep 19 16:51 | |
| *Topic for #techbytes set by ThistleWeb!~gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb at Wed Jan 5 20:55:35 2011 | Sep 19 16:51 | |
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| schestowitz | >> covering UNIX as I'm far from familiar. It's a lot older than me. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > it really isnt though. i mean it wasnt even rewritten in c until less | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > than a decade before you were born. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > -> bcpl | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > -> b (came after bcpl) | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > -> c (came after b) | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > -> d (they named it upside down. as roger faulkner says, the ogical | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > progression of b c is p, not d. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > 1973, unix was rewritten in c. and the progression from that into this | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > thing that would take over the world happened even later. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > unix licensing targeted minicomputers, left pc users to have their own | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > revolution WITHOUT at&t. they could have been smarter-- but licenses | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > were like $1000 (on the cheap end-- they would get much worse) | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > usl wanted to do intel and have sun focus on sparc-- sparc didnt care | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > about that, so they and usl stopped talking. sun, bsd and sgi innovated | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > while usl focused on things that bolstered short term financial | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > stability (short term stability!) and in the long run just cost them the | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > business. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > then the innovators got just as cocky while bsd moved forward. then bsd | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > got caught up in the same kind of thing with usl that compaq did going | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > up against ibm. usl didnt have much of a case and it would have gotten | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > thrown out except they shifted targets to ucb, who had deeper pockets. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > the legal battles were as much of a dance as anything-- more like a | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > really nasty, long and drawn out divorce proceeding than a company going | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > after somebody for something they did. | Sep 19 23:31 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > the heroism of torvalds is overstated-- a LOT of bsd (some of the | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > technologies people still rely on because theyre entrenched were | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > INTENDED as weekend hacks. other entrenched things that were intended as | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > quick hacks: python, javascript, dos-- the "d" in dos orignally comes | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > from tim patters "qdos" and the qd stands for "quick and dirty". | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > so they make out torvalds to be this scruffy university kid doing a | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > hobby project, not something big and important like gnu (his words, ive | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > read them many times and weve both quoted them) though the original unix | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > started out as a computer game, just for fun, after multics was dead. on | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > a 2-million dollar (in todays money) computer (pdp 7) that was | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > practically someones garbage. when they UPGRADED it was to a "bargain | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > basement" $65,000 pdp-11, in the money of that time period. | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > but what people miss when they deify torvalds is that every scruffy | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > university kid that worked on something like bsd-- or javascript, or | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > python (perhaps not a scruffy university kid, but still a quick hack as | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > a christmas vacation effort) started the way the linux kernel did. unix | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > started the way the linux kernel did (taking into account differences in | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > hardware at the time). | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > so theyre deifying torvalds for doing what everybody else did. he was | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > lucky. if he was exceptional compared to the other guys, he was truly | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > exceptional as a manager. the thing hes supposedly terrible at but we | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > all know better than that. on a technical level hes done some incredibly | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > stupid things, but he was the boss at the time and OVERALL, the kernel | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > truly wasnt shit. it was usable, and usable counts for so much. he | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > allowed people to improve it, in more instances than not (some of the | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > exceptions are unfortunate, but theyre exceptions). | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > the more you get into this stuff, the more you realise that the big | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > corporations had all their plans, but on a technical level most | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > advancements came from dorks, not bosses. tcp/ip came from both, but the | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > dorks won against the bosses in battle. dorks made a better tcp/ip than | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > the bosses that hired them. and they had to fight to win. torvalds has | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > stopped fighting, and the bosses have won. but they didnt make this stuff. | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > even in radio, there was one scruffy guy who inveted fm, rca had no use | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > for it and since it was created on company time, they owned the patent | Sep 19 23:32 |
| schestowitz | > on it-- which they didnt use and didnt let him work, so the inventer of | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > fm radio killed himself, iirc. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > companies dont make this stuff. they buy and own and try to steer it. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > that goes badly as often as it goes well. theyre not magicians or | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > wizards. theyre kings. kings dont make things. they tell people to make | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > things, and things are not always better for it. fm eventually | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > revolutionised radio. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > watch the keith packard talk, he says a lot of the same things. even | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > when a company like sun makes something better like the 360, they cant | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > make it work because their model depends on keeping other people from | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > building for/on it. so people end up going with whats cheaper to build on. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > cars that run on petrol came about because it was byproduct of an | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > existing industry that was cheaper. after more than a century of | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > innovation based on this, cars that run on petrol have more technology | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > that makes them efficient, though until people figured out that petrol | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > was plentiful and cheap, electric cars had just as much of a chance in | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > the early days. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > people think they want bach and beethoven, but those were rock stars in | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > their days-- they were rebels who made ladies swoon and their music was | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > considered noise by earlier generations. the industry proves that more | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > people want britney spears instead. they want cut corners, they want | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > stuff optimised for performance over reliablity, they want to have their | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > legs peed on and for the meteorologists to tell them its rain. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > industry is cheap, because thats where the profit is. once they have a | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > good scam going, its "expensive" because if you have a horse you know | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > will win, you put LOTS of money on it. then you have to pay off the | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > politicians so they dont ban the races. so its expensive in that regard. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > its such a joke. but its ONE HUNDRED percent politics. engineering, like | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > rock music, is blue collar work where some people get rich and most | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > people go bankrupt. its like the music industry. | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > oh baby, baby | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:33 |
| schestowitz | > how was i supposed to know? | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > of course 90% of what im saying here is in those talks. i mean its | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > lifted DIRECTLY from youtube videos of conference presentations. the | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > industry is a bunch of hacks, glued together by managers who do just as | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > much (perhaps more) to shut down good ideas because theyre mostly | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > interested in money. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > but its very tricky to build something better. gnu is being co-opted and | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > sort of gradually shut down, im not saying its dying but its in very bad | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > shape in terms of who is caring for it long-term. that cant be rms long | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > term, though im in favour of him running the project as long as he feels | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > able. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > in many ways, gnu has the same problems the fsf did TWO years ago. thats | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > not good, hackers-- thats not good. rms doesnt believe me, and id like | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > to be wrong-- but im not as often as id like. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > when i say its very tricky to build something better, i mean im a | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > software guy but you do need hardware. if you think of hardware costs in | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > terms of new stuff, not garbage and ewaste (unix was designed and | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > developed literally on ewaste) then you have open hardware projects like | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > what bunny huang works on-- you get an idea of just how much fucking | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > trouble hardware really is, if you watch his talks and his projects and | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > efforts to create open hardware as a work-in-progress and even academic | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > study. unlike most people, huang understands bulk commodity hardware | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > from-the-actual-source. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > this stuff will always be easier on surplus hardware, not bulk new | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > hardware, probably. maybe one day that will change, but not soon. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > but the fsf (emacs) started because the university labs were emptying | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > out into the corporations-- even before people left the labs, they were | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > working more and more for companies who wanted to ultimately control | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > what they did. and rms wanted no part of that. | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > with github and lf and all this other stuff, this is the next generation | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > of that happening. and rms obviously thinks of this shit as linear, not | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > generational or cyclical. he thinks theres only progress and setbacks, | Sep 19 23:34 |
| schestowitz | > not cycles of revolution, co-opting and stagnation. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > but we are sort of now reliving the times he suffered at the lab. and | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > since he doesnt believe thats happening, hes not going to do anything | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > about that. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > but on a small level, hes still fighting-- and thats good, because hes | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > one of the best fighters. its a shame though, after building up such a | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > movement that he refuses to warn it about you know-- the next cycle. he | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > just misses it completely, or he leaves it out. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > what im trying to do here isnt write an article. what im trying to do | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > here, is give you things to think about, things to consider, things to | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > watch for. but knowing you, youll turn it into an article. i dont care | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > about that, but im not writing it for the audience i write articles for. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > im writing this to you, and i hope it finds you. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > the main reason there isnt much of a next generation free software | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > movement yet, is MOST of the free software movement (except outliers) is | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > still acting like there isnt a next generation of threats. like theyre | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > all old threats-- which is true. but i honestly dont believe they have | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > any idea just how true that really is. theres no evidence that they get | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > what has changed, or why its more urgent than it was 3 years ago. thats | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > the sort of hubris that did in sgi, sun and at&t. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > you know the people who wanted the internet went to at&t first, right? | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > they wanted at&t to design the internet. and at&t balked at it. which is | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > probably why tcp/ip didnt come from at&t, and why at&t was behind on | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > tcp/ip (which isnt what the internet was built on at first, but it | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > certainly is what the internet is build on foremost) | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > why did at&t not want to build the internet? hubris. and that let bsd | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > move ahead. it was bb&n (the same people who designed the very FIRST two | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > internet routerss, kleinrock and all those people) and the bsd people. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > and the bsd people outdid the bb&n design. that was another scruffy hack. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > everybody gets comfortable, and they start thinking "weve got this" no | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > matter what happens. and they get cocky, and think theyre too big to fail. | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > its a stupid and pointless attitude. its great to think that you wont | Sep 19 23:35 |
| schestowitz | > give up-- but this is more like "we dont have to try"-- they dont have | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > to understand, worry, keep innovating, or adapt. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > THATS fucking hubris. and it will kill a movement as surely as it will | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > kill a corporation. in some ways it nearly has. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > most innovation IS crap though. just ask the open SHIT initiative. but | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > when corporations, scruffy hackers or humanitarian movements get cocky | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > and overconfident, thats just as bad as most innovation. sometimes its | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > worse, because things just drop off-- and become acquired, perhaps by | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > ibm-- who then throws it away, like multics. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > i mean its great that multics was powered off, it needed gobs of | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > expensive hardware and allowed unix to come about, luckily. but we arent | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > talking about multics now, we are talking about the free software movement. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > id actually rather it not get powered down, really. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | --------------------- | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > the "malicious instigators of treachery" | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > i mentioned in that article i met the inventor of the strobe light. that | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > was in his lab at mit. i used to be a very big fan, and some amazing | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > things have come out of there, but in the 21st century i think its a | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > very dark and ugly thing. i know, right? like the stuff the inventor of | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > the strobe light worked on wasnt! but back then, i really dont think mit | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > was corrupt, or did so much to sell out and exploit its own alumni and | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > staff... awful! | Sep 19 23:36 |
| MinceR | 20 003451 < schestowitz> > working more and more for companies who wanted to ultimately control | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | ------------------------ | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > One thing GNU Watch gets all wrong is there's no focus on the FSF's | Sep 19 23:36 |
| MinceR | 20 003452 < schestowitz> > what they did. and rms wanted no part of that. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > high-profile work. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| MinceR | funny, apparently he doesn't mind anymore | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > Take the video they made to promote free software alternatives to Zoom. | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > What's the FSF promoting? | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > https://www.fsf.org/news/free-software-foundation-announces-freedom-respecting-videoconferencing-for-its-associate-members | Sep 19 23:36 |
| -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.fsf.org | Free Software Foundation announces freedom-respecting videoconferencing for its associate members — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software | Sep 19 23:36 | |
| schestowitz | > (nice url, guys) | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > "The platform the FSF will use to offer ethical videoconferencing access | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > is Jitsi Meet." | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:36 |
| schestowitz | > So that links to: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Jitsi-Meet | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-directory.fsf.org | Jitsi-Meet - Free Software Directory | Sep 19 23:37 | |
| schestowitz | > I mean, we have a really great opportunity here-- most Free Software has | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > been co-opted by GitHub, we can use the FSF to promote GitHub and make | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > it the Free Github Foundation, we can get (pay) the FSF to spend its own | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > budget making adverts for software that requires a Microsoft account to | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > fully participate in. | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Jitsi-Meet | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > "Jitsi Meet | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > https://jitsi.org/jitsi-meet/" | Sep 19 23:37 |
| -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-jitsi.org | Jitsi Meet - Instant Free Videoconferencing | Sep 19 23:37 | |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > "Documentation | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/intro" | Sep 19 23:37 |
| -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-jitsi.github.io | Introduction · Jitsi Meet Handbook | Sep 19 23:37 | |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:37 |
| schestowitz | > Free Github Foundation-- Fighting for *your* Github! | Sep 19 23:37 |
| MinceR | maybe they support Microsoft GitHub because it runs Git, which is [L]GPL and apparently they believe that in itself is enough to fix everything | Sep 19 23:38 |
| schestowitz | naaa... | Sep 19 23:38 |
| schestowitz | they just don't care | Sep 19 23:38 |
| MinceR | it seemed to be the story about cancerd, though | Sep 19 23:40 |
| schestowitz | > Here's one you might like https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=-rPPqm44xLs | Sep 19 23:45 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 19 23:45 |
| schestowitz | > "Mainframes and the Unix Revolution" 15 minutes | Sep 19 23:45 |
| -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-invidious.snopyta.org | Mainframes and the Unix Revolution - Computerphile - Invidious | Sep 19 23:45 | |
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