●● IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Saturday, March 27, 2021 ●●

● Mar 27
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[00:58]	schestowitz	http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2021/03/21/teleworking-is-there-to-stay-at-the-european-patent-office/
[00:58]	schestowitz	"
[00:58]	schestowitz	Extraneous Attorney
[00:58]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Teleworking is there to stay at the European Patent Office - Kluwer Patent Blog
[00:58]	schestowitz	MARCH 21, 2021 AT 10:53 PM
[00:58]	schestowitz	At this point, does it even need to be pointed out that the legal basis in the EPC for all this new normal is entirely lacking?
[00:58]	schestowitz	Article 6(2) EPC provides that The European Patent Office shall be located in Munich. It shall have a branch at The Hague. Article 7 EPC provides that sub-offices may be created subject to the approval of the Contracting State or organisation concerned. These articles simply do not confer to the President of the EPO and/or the AC a free-floating power to scatter EPO employees across Europe according to their whims. It may be
[00:58]	schestowitz	that such a thing is desirable, but then one should amend the EPC, rather than pretend that everything is all fine and legal.
[00:58]	schestowitz	Of course, a Conference of ministers as foreseen in Article 4a EPC would be a fine setting to discuss the changes to the EPC necessary to enact such a plan, but this legal provision has been conveniently forgotten for almost fifteen years straight now So much for the rule of (international) law.
[00:58]	schestowitz	At the very least, the German and Dutch governments should remember that the EPC includes a Protocol on Staff Complement, which refers to the proportion of European Patent Office posts assigned to the duty station at The Hague, and provides that any significant change (more than 10%) in this proportion shall be subject to a decision by the AC on a proposal from the President of the EPO, after consultation with the German and Dutch
[00:58]	schestowitz	governments. If assigning the bulk of EPO employees to work from their home countries does not change the proportion of European Patent Office posts assigned to the duty station at The Hague, I dont know what does.
[00:58]	schestowitz	Attentive Observer
[00:58]	schestowitz	MARCH 22, 2021 AT 9:52 AM
[00:58]	schestowitz	It is somehow ironical that the EPO finds it necessary to consult its users about what it calls the New normal for the future of the EPO, whereas it did not find the necessity to do so when it decided to impose by default oral proceedings in form of videoconferences.
[00:58]	schestowitz	One wonders about the purpose of the action. It is to be feared that if the EPO gathers enough positive replies its head will be able to go to the Administrative Council and tell it: you can approve those proposals as the users agree with them.
[00:58]	schestowitz	The whole consultation actually boils down to taking the users as puppets to impress the AC and to simply give the appearance of consultation whilst the corresponding decisions are already taken. That the tail is wagging the dog would find a new confirmation.
[00:58]	schestowitz	The aim of the New Normal is multiple: mainly saving on staff costs and on buildings.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Saving of staff costs is possible when staff is going back in its country of origin as no expatriation allowance or children education allowances will be due. The question of the salary level is also to be raised as inflation or costs of living is still different in various contracting states. A solution would be to align the salary to the purchase power in the contracting state where it is the lowest. Another source of savings.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Saving in buildings is possible as it is envisaged that no more than 50% of staff will be present on the premises of the EPO. The EPO has already tried to sell part of its last building in Munich (next to the rail tracks in direct vicinity of the Hackerbrcke). The city of Munich has refused as it has some hold on the ground on which BT 8 has been erected. That the EPO wants to sell one of its own buildings whilst investing millions of
[00:59]	schestowitz	 in rented space for the boards is adding insult to injury.
[00:59]	schestowitz	It should however not be forgotten that by pushing teleworking the present management of the EPO is actually dematerialising the EPO. One important question is to be raised: is this in accordance with the EPC?
[00:59]	schestowitz	One can look at Art 18-21 under different angles, and even taking into account Art 31 and 32 of the VCLT, such an extensive interpretation of the EPC leading to a quasi-dematerialisation of the deciding bodies of the EPO does appear to lack any legal basis and is certainly not within the competence given to the president under Art 10(2,a).
[00:59]	schestowitz	By this quasi-dematerialisation Art 10(2,b) is put ad absurdum as acts to be performed at the European Patent Office in Munich or at its branch at The Hague would be scattered around Europe. Combined divisions of first instance with staff from Munich or The Hague are clearly envisaged. The appointment of staff to a specific location of the EPO would lose any meaning. Trying to sell this measure as improving quality is see-through.
[00:59]	schestowitz	It is also worth keeping in mind what the EBA said in G 2/19: Users of the European Patent Organisations services can legitimately expect that the European Patent Offices departments will not perform acts at whatever other place they choose.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Should the problem of a quasi-dematerialisation of the deciding bodies end up before the Enlarged Board, I fear that the users will be confronted with a further dynamic interpretation of the EBAs case law.
[00:59]	schestowitz	It is not sure that the Dutch government would appreciate the branch in The Hague to be emptied so as to create a situation in contradiction with the seat agreement requesting a certain proportion of EPO staff to be located in The Netherlands.
[00:59]	schestowitz	I am also not sure if the German government would appreciate that the EPO withdraws to a large extent from Munich and renders the Berlin part of the EPO redundant. The reasons for locating part of the EPO in Berlin are no longer existing, but with such a move to teleworking it would become more or less redundant.
[00:59]	schestowitz	The reasons for wanting a new building in Vienna are not compulsory beside the point of the present one having reached the end of its life.
[00:59]	schestowitz	When the form of the offices is discussed in the paper one should not forget that the head of the EPO made it clear that all examiners should eventually be located in open spaces, which is also a way to save office space. All the nice wording used is simply to throw sand in the eyes of the reader. Open space working places are maximised in the new building in The Hague.
[00:59]	schestowitz	It is also worth noting that if staff have shown an increased interest in teleworking the New Normal is disapproved by a large number of staff, in spite of what the president claims. It is not teleworking as such which the problem is, it is the degradation of the working conditions and salaries.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Introducing teleworking to such a large scale boils down to a deep modification of the mechanisms of the EPC and of the working of the EPO. If such a modification is wished, it should eventually be subject-matter of a Diplomatic Conference of the Contracting States. Such a Diplomatic Conference would best be preceded by a conference of ministers of the Contracting States responsible for patent matters as foreseen in Art 4a.
[00:59]	schestowitz	What has been said here about divisions of first instance applies mutatis mutandis to the location and staffing of the boards of appeal. It might be useful to quote
[00:59]	schestowitz	To sum it up, there is nothing normal in the so-called New Normal.
[00:59]	schestowitz	I hope the epi will also have something to say publicly about this farcical exercise.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Users have two possibilities: either answer the consultation and give an honest opinion or boycott it.
[00:59]	schestowitz	It is for you to decide.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Alessandro Cossu
[00:59]	schestowitz	MARCH 23, 2021 AT 3:19 PM
[00:59]	schestowitz	There is a third option: organisations representing the users, such as epi, should lobby governments at the very least the German and Dutch government, but I am quite sure France and Italy would also have something to say so that this mess is stopped. It has been going on for too long; it is time for the national governments, if they understand and care about a properly functioning European patent system, to intervene and stop
[00:59]	schestowitz	the systematic dismantling of that system.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Anon
[00:59]	schestowitz	MARCH 24, 2021 AT 6:48 PM
[00:59]	schestowitz	And how would you convince the members of any national government that a properly functining European parent system will help them to stay in power?
[00:59]	schestowitz	Attentive Observer
[00:59]	schestowitz	MARCH 23, 2021 AT 11:35 PM
[00:59]	schestowitz	When you hear that Art15a RPBA 2020 has been adopted by the AC with 30 to 0, it does not seem that the dismantling is going to stop!
[00:59]	schestowitz	MaxDrei
[00:59]	schestowitz	MARCH 24, 2021 AT 12:46 PM
[00:59]	schestowitz	This in reply to Attentives remark of yesterday, that the AC members agreed unanimously to Art 15a RPBA 2020.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Well, of course they did. Why should they dissent? What over-riding principle is involved, important enough to require a futile dying in a ditch gesture. Compare Article 1.1 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) for the courts of England and Wales (see below) on the over-riding objective of the court procedures, to decide cases justly, expeditiously and economically. Using ViCo wherever appropriate is consistent with such
[00:59]	schestowitz	an objective, is it not?
[00:59]	schestowitz	The problem is the age-old one, of who controls the controllers. Did we trust the EPO, up to now, always to decide cases justly expeditiously and at proportionate cost? If we ever did, how long will the present level of trust endure, I wonder.
[00:59]	schestowitz	Now, here is E&W CPR 1.1
[00:59]	schestowitz	1.1
[00:59]	schestowitz	(1) These Rules are a new procedural code with the overriding objective of enabling the court to deal with cases justly and at proportionate cost.
[00:59]	schestowitz	(2) Dealing with a case justly includes, so far as is practicable 
[00:59]	schestowitz	(a) ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing;
● Mar 27
[01:00]	schestowitz	(b) saving expense;
[01:00]	schestowitz	(c) dealing with the case in ways which are proportionate 
[01:00]	schestowitz	(i) to the amount of money involved;
[01:00]	schestowitz	(ii) to the importance of the case;
[01:00]	schestowitz	(iii) to the complexity of the issues; and
[01:00]	schestowitz	(iv) to the financial position of each party;
[01:00]	schestowitz	(d) ensuring that it is dealt with expeditiously and fairly; and
[01:00]	schestowitz	(e) allotting to it an appropriate share of the courts resources, while taking into account the need to allot resources to other cases.
[01:00]	schestowitz	1.2
[01:00]	schestowitz	The court must seek to give effect to the overriding objective when it 
[01:00]	schestowitz	(a) exercises any power given to it by the Rules; or
[01:00]	schestowitz	(b) interprets any rule.
[01:00]	schestowitz	Concerned observer
[01:00]	schestowitz	MARCH 24, 2021 AT 4:50 PM
[01:00]	schestowitz	In a development that will surprise absolutely no one, we now know for certain that there will be no stays of first instance proceedings pending the outcome of G 1/21:
[01:00]	schestowitz	https://www.epo.org/news-events/news/2021/20210324a.html
[01:00]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.epo.org | EPO - EPO continues oral proceedings by videoconference in examination and opposition during pendency of referral G 1/21
[01:00]	schestowitz	The Presidents reasons for not imposing any stays of proceedings is apparently that avoiding a further delay in access to justice is a priority. However, this will only be true if the EBA rules that without consent VICOs are lawful. If the decision goes the other way, then the Presidents decision will actually WORSEN delays in access to justice (by requiring certain proceedings to be re-run in a lawful manner).
[01:00]	schestowitz	Given that G1/21 will likely be decided VERY quickly, the Presidents decision can only be interpreted as yet another sign that the decision in that case is a foregone conclusion. This is because the length of the delays caused by imposing a stay of proceedings now would likely pale into insignificance compared to the delays that could (in theory) be caused by having to re-run all of the proceedings that, between now and the date of
[01:00]	schestowitz	the EBAs opinion, will conducted using without consent VICOs.
[01:00]	schestowitz	In other words, either the EPO President already knows the outcome of G1/21 or he is being outrageously reckless with applicants time and money. There is simply no plausible alternative explanation. This makes me want to puke!
[01:00]	schestowitz	"
[01:00]	schestowitz	> Could we make a phone call at some point?
[01:00]	schestowitz	>
[01:00]	schestowitz	> Stjerna published some new interesting documents...
[01:00]	schestowitz	You can phone my landline if it's not too expensive (it would be for me; BT charges me like mad for overseas calls).
[01:00]	schestowitz	Re: Fwd: Harvard University Professor - PLEASE SHARE
[01:00]	schestowitz	> Please share, here is the logo:
[01:00]	schestowitz	>
[01:00]	schestowitz	> https://uncensoredspeakers.wordpress.com/
[01:00]	schestowitz	>
[01:00]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-uncensoredspeakers.wordpress.com | Uncensored Speakers A Dublin City Toastmasters Club
[01:00]	schestowitz	> https://uncensoredspeakers.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/uncensored-logo-hq1.png?w=600
[01:00]	schestowitz	It's a shame they use Zoon. Their talks can be forced down :(
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[11:55]	schestowitz	x https://rubenerd.com/rebuking-the-free-software-foundation/
[11:55]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-rubenerd.com | Rubenerd: Redirect your @FSF donations elsewhere
[11:55]	schestowitz	# uninformed trolling
[11:57]	schestowitz	"I once spent three days with Richard M. Stallman. I was the person his assistant would frequently call and ask to speak with him, since he objects to carrying a phone." https://computer.rip/2021-03-24-RMS.html
[11:57]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-computer.rip | Computers Are Bad
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[11:59]	schestowitz	https://floss.social/@downey/105954554237977915
[11:59]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-floss.social | Michael Downey : "From Twitter, here's a sampling of the typical me" - FLOSS.social
[11:59]	schestowitz	# trolls fanning the flames; how many Waggoner-Edstrom and other
[11:59]	schestowitz	# shill / sockpuppet accounts are involved in fanning the flames?
[11:59]	schestowitz	# if there are rebuttals at TR, they should include text as video is ephemeral
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[12:09]	schestowitz	x https://cio.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/corporate-news/microsoft-owned-github-bets-big-on-indian-developers-students/81706082
[12:09]	schestowitz	x https://social.coop/@mako/105957799918712559
[12:09]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-cio.economictimes.indiatimes.com | Microsoft: Microsoft-owned GitHub bets big on Indian developers, students, IT News, ET CIO
[12:09]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-social.coop | Benjamin Mako Hill: "I just published a short blog post adding my voic" - social.coop
[12:21]	schestowitz	https://tilde.zone/@thunder/105947036573831207
[12:21]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 403 @ https://tilde.zone/@thunder/105947036573831207 )
[12:28]	schestowitz	https://twitter.com/zoobab/status/1375785413189701635
[12:28]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@zoobab: RMS lynch mob is driven by Microsoft and GNOME Foundation, oh surprise "Git shortlog (Top 10): rms_cancel.git: 1170 https://t.co/v1nM1KX1U6
[12:28]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@zoobab: RMS lynch mob is driven by Microsoft and GNOME Foundation, oh surprise "Git shortlog (Top 10): rms_cancel.git: 1170 https://t.co/v1nM1KX1U6
[12:28]	schestowitz	"RMS lynch mob is driven by Microsoft and GNOME Foundation, oh surprise "Git shortlog (Top 10): rms_cancel.git: 1170 Neil McGovern (GNOME) 204 Joan Touzet 46 Elana Hashman (Microsoft) 41 Molly de Blanc""
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[13:38]	schestowitz	> Wow, they started a petition? Nicholson won a FSF award and was presented by RMS in 2019... it's terrible.
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	> I wasn't surprised by the first signature at all or first few...all the fauxpen source cronies from
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	> GNOME
[13:38]	schestowitz	> SFC
[13:38]	schestowitz	> OSI
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	> https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
[13:38]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-rms-open-letter.github.io | An open letter to remove Richard M. Stallman from all leadership positions | rms-open-letter.github.io
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	> Where I was a little disappointed was the blog post from Dries.
[13:38]	schestowitz	> Not surprised, but disappointed.
[13:38]	schestowitz	>
[13:38]	schestowitz	> https://dri.es/the-free-software-foundation-it-is-time-for-a-new-beginning
[13:38]	schestowitz	Sorry for my short and late reply, have been super-busy over here.
[13:38]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-dri.es | The Free Software Foundation: it's time for a new beginning | Dries Buytaert
[13:38]	schestowitz	Dries says false things. I will respond to him in a video this coming Sunday.
[13:38]	schestowitz	Why Sunday? Because I wait for dust to settle.
[13:38]	schestowitz	Things I will cover listed in http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/149083#comment-28821
[13:38]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.tuxmachines.org | Good News! Richard Stallman is Back at Free Software Foundation | Tux Machines
[13:38]	schestowitz	I also cover some patent/EPO scandals, which unlike the RMS fuss is NEWS, not a phony BS from 2 years ago... in an MIT private mailing list.
[13:38]	schestowitz	They also tried to cancel RMS in 2009. One of MANY articles:
[13:38]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2009/12/10/proprietary-software-free-arena/
[13:38]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-techrights.org | Richard Stallman on [GNOME] Code of Conduct and Foundation Membership | Techrights
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[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>> Please share, here is the logo:
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>>
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>> https://uncensoredspeakers.wordpress.com/
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>>
[22:22]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-uncensoredspeakers.wordpress.com | Uncensored Speakers A Dublin City Toastmasters Club
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>> https://uncensoredspeakers.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/uncensored-logo-hq1.png?w=600
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>> It's a shame they use Zoon. Their talks can be forced down :(
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>>
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>
[22:22]	schestowitz__	> Free as in beer
[22:22]	schestowitz__	>
[22:22]	schestowitz__	> Even with Zoom, there is still a break in the middle of the meeting for
[22:22]	schestowitz__	> people to visit the bar
[22:22]	schestowitz__	I never used Zoom before.
[22:22]	schestowitz__	In think the anti-RMS mob has lost all momentum by now.
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> Dear FSF:
[22:27]	schestowitz__	>
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> Further to my earlier email this evening, please see the attached letter
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> "fsf-25.03.2021.pdf and accompanying document supporting RMS' return to
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> the board of the Free Software Foundation.
[22:27]	schestowitz__	>
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> The Open Source "heavyweights" seem eager to draw yet another line
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> between its camp and that of "Free Software". They can not determine the
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> direction of the movement founded by RMS.
[22:27]	schestowitz__	>
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> Only those on the FSF board who objected to RMS' reinstatement need
[22:27]	schestowitz__	> resign.  Stay the course, we are depending on you.
[22:37]	schestowitz__	> I have a potential blog post coming up, and I'd love to have your
[22:37]	schestowitz__	> feedback on it.  But what I have is a draft, and I'd need your
[22:37]	schestowitz__	> commitment to not post any of it before I send you a final version.
[22:37]	schestowitz__	> Would you be willing to have a look at it and share your feedback with
[22:37]	schestowitz__	> me so as to improve it?
[22:37]	schestowitz__	Sure, sent it over, but remember I read mail at most once a day, so it can be slow.
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> Roy:
[22:51]	schestowitz__	>
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> If only those over 3,000 signatures could somehow be converted to dollars!!
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
[22:51]		-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-rms-support-letter.github.io | An open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman | An open letter in support of RMS.
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> <https://rms-support-letter.github.io/>
[22:51]	schestowitz__	>
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> I'm still working under a lot of pressure:
[22:51]	schestowitz__	>
[22:51]	schestowitz__	> Will keep checking TechRights for updates. Have a great day!
[22:51]	schestowitz__	I will be doing some campaigning for raising funds soon. I'm under a pressure of lack of time because I also cover many patent scandals and work with leakers.
[22:51]	schestowitz__	Want morale? Think of it like this: they don't attack people so viciously unless they're losing. It's when you make no difference anymore that they just stop caring...
[22:51]	schestowitz__	You can't kill a concept. You can, however, 'kill' people. Sometimes even literally....