●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Wednesday, May 28, 2025 ●●
● May 28
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sdalbera_last-week-i-published-a-post-revisiting-activity-7333042661991272448-plMI/
[03:14] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.linkedin.com | Last week, I published a post revisiting the pivotalyet often | Stphane Dalbera
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] "Last week, I published a post revisiting the pivotalyet often overlookedrole Richard Stallman played in the early days of the movement that would eventually lead to GNU/Linux.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] https://lnkd.in/d3V3Qgpz
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] ---
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] My friend Alain Chesnais took the opportunity to share, in a private message, some delightful anecdotes from the early 1980s, when he hosted RMS during a visit to Paris.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Unfortunately, those cant be shared publiclybut he did offer one story that can.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] After delivering a talk titled Copyright vs. Community in the Age of Computer Networks, Stallman held a fundraising auction for the Free Software Foundation.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Among the items up for bid: a plush toy of the GNU mascot.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] In the audience that day was Joey de Villa, then working at Microsoftthe very embodiment of evil, in Stallmans worldview.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Joeys role?
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] "Promoting Microsoft to unfriendly technical audiencesnamely mobile, web, and open source developers, with whom the company had weak or non-existent relationships. He won over developers and technology influencers who originally had strong negative opinions of Microsoft, and helped increase its influence in one of the worlds fastest-growing tech hubs.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Joey began biddingand what followed was a memorable exchange:
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - You should know that hes with Microsoft! someone in the audience warned Stallman.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - There are anti-animal cruelty laws, Stallman replied, looking directly at Joey.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - You have The Empires assurance that no harm will come to him, Joey shot back.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Joey ended up winning the auction.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] Stallman, visibly puzzled, couldnt quite grasp why someone from Microsoft would want a gnu plushlet alone pay that much for it.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - You do promise to obey anti-animal cruelty laws? Stallman asked again, as if the plush were a living, breathing gnu.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - I wont harm a hair on its head. I do come from the Free Software world, Joey repliedcareful not to say Open Source, for fear of derailing the deal.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] And then, the final twist: Joey pulled out his Microsoft corporate credit card.
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] - Would it be all right if I paid with this?
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] You can read the full story on Joeys blog by following this link
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] https://lnkd.in/drMwC3MY
[03:14] schestowitz[TR2] So Microsoft has contributed to funding the FSF."
[03:14] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.linkedin.com | GNU was to change the world, Linux was "just for fun"
[03:15] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-lnkd.in | LinkedIn
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1jvqqfty6
[03:47] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 403 @ https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1jvqqfty6 )
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] "
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] The best thing you can do if you are a software engineer working at Microsoft is to voluntary resign unless you already have a layoff notice in hand. Then you can finally get your d-mb behind out of dearly depressing Seattle once and for all. At the top of your list where to move to next? Your first of locations you should move yourself to, should be West Virginia? You ask why huh? Well in West Virgina every single Coal Mine is hir
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] ing Coal miners and if you are hooked on working overtime like you do at Microsoft, you can continue to do so working as a coal miner in West Virginia and make a bundle of money.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Your To Do List:
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Voluntary resign from your boring software engineering Microsoft job, unless you have received a layoff notice already.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Sell as much of your junk as you can like video games. You want to lighten the load of junk you will move to West Virginia
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Pack the remaining junk you own into your Toyota Prius
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Start driving to West Virginia
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Once you arrive in West Virginia began applying to Coal miner jobs at all the Mines you can.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] With this plan you should have a coal miner job within a day or two.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] About after 6 months where you have saved some serious money, drive your Toyota Prius off the biggest cliff you can find in West Viriginia.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] If you survive step number 7 above, go to the many Ford Dealers in West Virginia and get the best deal you can and buy a brand new 2025 Ford F-150 Raptor Truck.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] Make plans for a vacation. a year after your first day working as a coal miner. But where you decide to go on vacation too, don't chose Seattle.
[03:47] schestowitz[TR2] "
● May 28
[06:15] schestowitz[TR2] "The two types of open source"
[06:15] schestowitz[TR2] x https://filiph.net/text/two-types-of-open-source.html
[06:15] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-filiph.net | The two types of open source
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[16:46] schestowitz[TR2] https://lxer.com/module/forums/t/36947/
[16:46] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-LXer: Debian Installer Trixie RC 1 release (official announcement): Debian 13 (Trixie) Installer Reaches First Release Candidate
[16:46] schestowitz[TR2] "Google's search for "Debian Installer Trixie RC 1 release" provides the link for this official announcement wherever you are currently staying. There is also post "Debian Installer Trixie RC 1 Adds Rescue Support On Btrfs, Upgraded Linux 6.12 Kernel" at phoronix.com https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Installer-Trixie-RC1 which is publicly available as well. Post at phoronix.com focus your attention at the features - 1.Moving to
[16:46] schestowitz[TR2] the Linux 6.12.27 LTS kernel image ; 2. Preliminary support for rescuing Debian installed to a Btrfs sub-volume and 3.Installing spice-vdagent under QEMU/KVM if carrying out a desktop installation of Debian Linux.
[16:46] schestowitz[TR2] Post at phoronix.com also mentions that :- Some firmware packages are also no longer included either globally or on a per-arch basis for some if they are not useful with the installer, rely on non-free components, or with the current Debian kernel configuration."
[16:46] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-Debian Installer Trixie RC 1 Adds Rescue Support On Btrfs, Upgraded Linux 6.12 Kernel - Phoronix
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[18:40] schestowitz[TR2] http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2025/05/event-report-c5-pharma-biotech-patent.html?showComment=1748357448872#c8310135638149526928
[18:40] schestowitz[TR2] ">Rose, regarding the questions posed in G 1/24, I am not sure that it is possible to draw a distinction between:
- the question of whether the description can be used to redefine otherwise clear claim language; and
- the question of whether the claims should be read in the context of the description as a whole.
This is because both questions ultimately aim to determine the"
[18:40] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Event report: C5 Pharma & Biotech Patent Litigation in Europe (Day 1), Plausibility, UPC and antibody IP strategy - The IPKat
● May 28
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● May 28
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/2025-05/msg00006.html
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] "* Akira Urushibata [2025-05-26 20:32]:
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > In this article I will provide a typical example of an operation and
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > discuss how we can use it in our advocacy efforts.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Thanks so much for your good intentions.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Improvements in graphical user interfaces have made computers easy to
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > use. However, graphical user interfaces become cumbersome when the
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > same task must be repeated many times over.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] That is so right and we don't have ideal computing environments. wish
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] that would change one day. I think that large language models with
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] natural language processing are the way to go to direct computer on
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] what to do and to generate repetitions, loops and other workflows just
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] by telling to computer what has to be done.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Adding the a multiple-input file feature to any utility requires
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > effort. In addition small variations may appear on how it is actually
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > implemented, obliging users to learn anew the details unique to each
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > application. It makes more sense to provide a universal apparatus for
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > handling the common case of multiple inputs.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] In general, our file systems and systems for dealing with files are
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] not ideal. I can totally understand what you mean. However, a
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] universal apparatus is not a goal, because we cannot standardize, just
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] like you said it in the last email, but we can make software and let
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] people choose what to use.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] I have made my own computing and file environment in such a way that I
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] can relate files to people, to other files, to documents, notes, I can
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] tag them, have types and subtypes. This classification allows me to
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] get files by various intersections or relations.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] The actual file location is totally unknown to me as a user, I have no
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] idea where it is. But the speed to access the file is so much
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] shorter, because I am finding it by semantic relationships, tags,
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] types, subtypes and so on.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > In many real-life instances the files the user desires to convert are
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > not all in one flat directory but rather scattered around, often in a
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > nested structure of directories. Also there are cases in which there
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > are files which should not be converted mingling with others which
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > definitely should. If each application had to offer the capacity to
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > deal with such complicated requests, they would become sophisticated
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > in the bad sense of the word.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] I think that file system is not the best way for human to interact
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] with it. I just think that better way is using the dynamic knowledge
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] repository as defined by Mr. Doug Engelbart, the inventor of a lot of
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] computing innovations and the mouse.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] About Dynamic Knowledge Repositories (DKR):
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/190/163/
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > The absence of terminology reflects low interest in the issue. Batch
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > conversion of multiple files is a mundane task that should not be
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > taken lightly. A typo can lead to erasure of files or the creation of
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > too many files. In another scenario the demands of an inefficient
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > conversion may add up and eventually overload the entire system.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] When I am looking at it, it is very easy now to create various loops
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] and go over the files. But that's what I say, it is easy, it is not
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] integrated, just like you say. So there is a variety of situations
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] which can take place and you are right, there may be many errors.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] But we could use the large language models to tell the program to
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] avoid any errors. That way, at least we improve the system.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] For example:
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] ------------
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Here is an example of a shell command to convert all your PNG files
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > (named *.png) to JPEG files named *.jpg:
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] >
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > for i in *.png; do pngtopam $i | pnmtojpeg >`basename $i .png`.jpg; done
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] >
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Make this loop better that if something is wrong, that it is detected before
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > the conversion actually takes place.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Then:
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] -----
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] #!/bin/bash
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Check required commands are available
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] if ! command -v pngtopam >/dev/null 2>&1 || ! command -v pnmtojpeg >/dev/null
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] 2>&1; then
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] echo "Error: Required commands (pngtopam or pnmtojpeg) not found" >&2
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] exit 1
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] fi
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Process each PNG file
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] for i in *.png; do
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Skip if no PNG files exist
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] [ -f "$i" ] || continue
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Check if input file is readable
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] if [ ! -r "$i" ]; then
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] echo "Error: Cannot read file '$i'" >&2
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] continue
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] fi
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Set output filename
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] outfile="$(basename "$i" .png).jpg"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Check if output file would be writable
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] if [ -e "$outfile" ] && [ ! -w "$outfile" ]; then
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] echo "Error: Cannot overwrite file '$outfile'" >&2
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] continue
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] fi
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Perform the conversion with error checking
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] if ! pngtopam "$i" | pnmtojpeg > "$outfile"; then
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] echo "Error: Conversion failed for '$i'" >&2
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] # Remove failed output file if it was created
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] [ -f "$outfile" ] && rm -f "$outfile"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] continue
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] fi
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] echo "Successfully converted '$i' to '$outfile'"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] done
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] And as you say, universal approach to loop over the files would be the
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] best. Just that we don't have such universal approach.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > There is much effort spent in advertising the "Linux" OS as
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > user-friendly and easy to use.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] But that is also true depending from which viewpoint you look at
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] it. There is now a lot of GNU Linux distributions, which are very
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] user-friendly.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > People who seek user-friendly computers regard command-line tools as
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > a relic of the past.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] I would not generalize it because that is simply a different group of
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] users who use the graphics user interface. They are not as powerful
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] as those using command line tools. If they think it is something of
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] the past, that is just a generalization. They are not on the same
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] level as developers who know how to deal with it.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Any agent promoting "Linux" would thus rather hide them from the
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > general public. Thus people have few opportunities to see how
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > experts actually do work with the OS.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Opportunities are today more than ever. There are many videos, there
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] are many YouTube videos, there are explanations on many software
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] repositories, so there is now much more use of the command lines and
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] all the software is now at the maximum. So it's not like there are
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] few opportunities, I can't see that. I see much more opportunities for
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] the last 25 years.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > In addition there is a persistent campaign against the name "GNU".
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Yes, that is somehow true, but the campaign is not from a single
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] source. It comes from opinions from various different groups. And of
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] course there is a reason for that. It's political reason.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > The above procedure employs GNU Bash and GNU coreutils. Other
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > utilities often used in conjunction are provided by GNU findutils,
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > GNU diffutils, GNU grep, GNU sed, GNU awk. The negative campaign
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > discourages people from understanding how GNU utilities are actually
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > employed and leaves them with a shallow, distorted view of the entire
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > system.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Then it is up to us to make it right, you see.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > Some attempts have appeared to find a term to fill the void. "Cloud"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > is a vague term, but for some people it is mostly about efficient
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > command-line procedures which system management requires. Some others
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > speak of the operations as part of "Linux". In fact I have heard that
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > a major reason Microsoft decided to provide "Window System for Linux"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > (WSL), is that "cloud" operators became accustomed to using "Linux"
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > command-line utilities and felt inconvenienced by their absence in
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > ordinary Windows environments.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Whatever Microsoft says, I am not really keen to trust that company.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > The above observation gives me an idea for an new strategy for
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > promoting GNU. There is a problem that requires a solution. We can
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > explain the problem and the potential outcome of not solving it
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > properly. After convincing people that a problem exists we can
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > explain how it is best solved, how to find the engineers who know the
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] > right solution, what tools they use and where the tools come from.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] The best way of promoting GNU is helping people install the system and
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] then delve into researching it.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Thanks so much for your insightful view from Japan and many greetings.
[20:21] schestowitz[TR2] Jean Louis"
[20:21] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-lists.gnu.org | Re: What we can learn from a typical operation
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/2025-05/msg00005.html
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] "* Akira Urushibata [2025-05-13 17:45]:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Like many other UNIX-derived utilities, make is a language. As a
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > language it is tough to study. There are several reasons for this.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > For one thing GNU Make, the most widely used implementation, is rich
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > in features. The intricate details make GNU Make textbooks such as
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > the one from O'Reilly hard to digest: the reader is easily
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > disoriented.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] That's because when learning any subject first you must make sure that
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] you understand each single word and if you don't understand a word you
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] have to clarify the word or clear the word before moving forward with
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] reading. If you ensure of defining those words before you read you
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] will have no trouble in learning.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > In addition, and perhaps more importantly, there is an acute shortage
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > of makefiles to use as study material.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] I was surprised when reading this when it is well known that there are
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] so many Make files very easy to find. Did you try searching software
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] repositories?
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Then if you need examples of a make file, what you can also do, you
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] can ask any large language model to give you such examples. It's like
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] within a second you can get an example.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] project/
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2]
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] main.c
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] utils.c
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] utils.h
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Makefile
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] main.c
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] ------
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #include
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #include "utils.h"
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] int main() {
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] printf("The sum of 3 and 5 is %d\n", add(3, 5));
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] return 0;
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] }
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] utils.c
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] -------
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #include "utils.h"
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] int add(int a, int b) {
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] return a + b;
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] }
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] utils.h
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] -------
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #ifndef UTILS_H
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #define UTILS_H
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] int add(int a, int b);
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] #endif
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Makefile:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] ---------
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Compiler to use
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] CC = gcc
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Compiler flags
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] CFLAGS = -Wall -Wextra
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Object files
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] OBJS = main.o utils.o
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Executable name
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] TARGET = my_program
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Default target
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] all: $(TARGET)
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Link the object files into the final executable
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] $(TARGET): $(OBJS)
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -o $@ $^
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Compile the source files into object files
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] %.o: %.c
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $<
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Clean up the build
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] clean:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] rm -f $(OBJS) $(TARGET)
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] # Phony targets
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] .PHONY: all clean
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Makefiles describe the build processes of the Linux kernel, GCC,
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Glibc, GNU binutils, GNU coreutils, Bash and most other major OS
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > components. However the packages seldom come with a ready-to-run
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > makefile. Instead the makefile is produced by a configure script.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Such machine-generated makefiles are difficult to analyze and are of
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > little educational value.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Makefiles are versatile tools and can be used for a variety of tasks
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] beyond just building software.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] See more examples here:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] https://gnu.support/files/tmp/clipboard-2025-05-28-09-37-44.html
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Most people who have heard of a "Linux" OS aren't aware about this.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Maybe because they are not developers.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > They assume that "Linux" is a standard.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] To understand what large group of people really think or assume, one
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] would need to make a survey. For example, one could ask 1000 users if
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] they assume that Linux is some standard, and then evaluate the survey
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] by percentage groups of their answers.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Many people have names of their GNU/Linux distributions. The fact that
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] there are so many distributions also speaks that there is no single
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] standard, even though many distributions rely on plethora of various
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] standards.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > In reality there is no "standard Linux", only distributions which
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > combine system components and popular applications selected in
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > accordance to certain policies. When it comes to the actual
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > components that go into distributions there is significant variation.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > For example, most distributions use Bash as the default shell and Gawk
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > as the awk interpreter but Debian employs Dash and Mawk, respectively,
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > in their places. The configure and make procedure makes this
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > possible.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] That is the freedom we want. There is absolutely no need for
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] standardization so that every software distribution is the same. What
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] we want is the freedom and the freedom gives diversity.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > I suspect that those who promote "Linux" for the name of the entire
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > OS do not want people to find out that there is no such thing as a
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > "standard Linux".
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Actually, I don't think so. I don't share this opinion. I think that
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] those people who promote any software distribution, they are promoting
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] their own projects and there is a choice of many, many different
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] distributions. So that is okay and good for the society.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Our efforts to promote the name "GNU/Linux" for the entire OS have not
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > been totally successful.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] The point is if the GNU system is bundled with the Linux kernel, then
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] we call it GNU Linux. Other parties need not call it that way.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Here is a list of GNU/Linux distributions that explicitly include "GNU" in
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] their name alongside Linux, as referenced in the search results:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 1. **Dragora GNU/Linux-libre**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - A fully free distribution using the Linux-libre kernel and Runit as its
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] init system. It emphasizes freedom and reliability but is noted for
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] installation challenges .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 2. **GNU Guix System**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - Developed by the GNU Project, it features a declarative configuration
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] model and its own package manager. It uses the Linux-libre kernel and avoids
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] non-free software entirely .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 3. **Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - An Arch-based distribution prioritizing software freedom. It uses
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Linux-libre, avoids SystemD, and focuses on long-term stability by holding back
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] packages .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 4. **Parabola GNU/Linux-libre**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - Another Arch-based distro stripped of non-free components, using
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Linux-libre. It supports both SystemD and OpenRC and maintains 32-bit support .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 5. **Trisquel GNU/Linux**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - Based on Ubuntu but fully compliant with FSF guidelines. It uses a
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] deblobbed Linux-libre kernel and offers editions like MATE, LXDE, and Sugar .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 6. **Utoto GNU/Linux**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - Originally Gentoo-based, later switched to Ubuntu. It was the first
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] FSF-certified distro but is now considered discontinued .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 7. **Dyne:bolic GNU/Linux**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - A multimedia-focused live distribution designed for offline use. It is
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] outdated (last release in 2011) and 32-bit only .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] 8. **PureOS**
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - While not always labeled "GNU/Linux," it is FSF-approved and based on
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Debian, with a focus on privacy and removing binary blobs from the kernel .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Notes:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - The Free Software Foundation (FSF) endorses these distributions for their
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] strict adherence to free software principles, including the use of GNU
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] components and avoidance of proprietary blobs .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] - Some distributions like **Debian** and **Fedora** include GNU tools but are
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] not FSF-certified due to non-free repositories or firmware .
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] For further details, refer to the FSF's recommendations or the
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] respective project pages.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > So I suggest that we, instead of merely attaching "GNU" to "Linux",
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > send a message that "GNU" and "Linux" are separate, and that the
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > engineers who are aware of the difference and treat it as something
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > other than a political disagreement possess a set of valuable skills.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > Those who make the distinction and are aware of what the "GNU" part is
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > capable of are adept with operations such as installation of software,
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > backing up data, adding or replacing hardware, salvaging a damaged
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > system and conducting tests before and after any major change.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] GNU and Linux are always separate though work together when they are
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] put together.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] GNU/Linux means GNU operating system with the Linux kernel. Engineers
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] know very well that Linux is the kernel and that it does nothing
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] alone, it doesn't offer operating environment or system. GNU is one
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] system, and there are different systems based on Linux kernel.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > We should try to enlighten people to the fact that instead of a
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > "standard Linux system" we have an "ecosystem with various GNU/Linux
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > distributions".
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Ecosystem:
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Ecosystem
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] It is not really word to promote in the GNU project.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] I think that it is enough known that there are many, many different
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] GNU/Linux distributions.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > It may be difficult, given the existing prejudices, but people are
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > aware that their lives are ever more reliant on computer systems and
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > there are great benefits in truly understanding them while the risks
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] > associated to ignorance is growing steadily.
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] I don't even know, is it possible to understand if there are
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] prejudices or not without doing the actual public survey?
[20:22] schestowitz[TR2] Jean Louis"
[20:23] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.dougengelbart.org | About DKRs-Doug Engelbart Institute
[20:27] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-lists.gnu.org | Re: Make's place in the operating system
[20:29] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-gnu.support | clipboard
[20:33] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.gnu.org | Words to Avoid (or Use with Care) Because They Are Loaded or Confusing - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
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