●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, January 30, 2024 ●● ● Jan 30 [06:39] *KindOne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [06:40] *KindOne_ (~KindOne@23xffjdf3phbn.irc) has joined #techbytes [06:46] *KindOne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [06:49] *KindOne_ (~KindOne@23xffjdf3phbn.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jan 30 [10:33] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes ● Jan 30 [11:47] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [11:53] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [11:54] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [11:54] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [11:56] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [11:59] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes ● Jan 30 [12:01] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [12:29] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [12:30] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [12:37] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes [12:39] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [12:55] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytes ● Jan 30 [13:07] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytes [13:20] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@u8ftxtfux23wk.irc) has joined #techbytes [13:35] schestowitz[TR] http://techrights.org/n/2024/01/15/Meme_Bill_Gates_Paid_My_Last_Employer_in_Secret_Under_NDA_an_Em.shtmlhttp://techrights.org/n/2024/01/07/Media_Flooding_the_Web_With_Fake_Articles_About_Bill_Gates_That.shtml [13:35] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ http://techrights.org/n/2024/01/15/Meme_Bill_Gates_Paid_My_Last_Employer_in_Secret_Under_NDA_an_Em.shtmlhttp://techrights.org/n/2024/01/07/Media_Flooding_the_Web_With_Fake_Articles_About_Bill_Gates_That.shtml ) [13:35] schestowitz[TR] " [13:35] schestowitz[TR] x https://techcentral.co.za/microsoft-poised-leave-apple-in-the-dust/238641/ [13:35] schestowitz[TR] " [13:35] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-techcentral.co.za | Microsoft is poised to leave Apple in the dust - TechCentral [13:36] schestowitz[TR] x https://futurism.com/the-byte/microsoft-ceo-horrified-by-ai-generated-taylor-swift-images [13:36] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-futurism.com | Microsoft CEO Horrified by AI-Generated Taylor Swift Images [13:36] schestowitz[TR] "x says" [13:36] schestowitz[TR] Microsoft SPAM ● Jan 30 [14:45] *schestowitz-TR has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [14:45] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes [14:45] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@freenode-54p.goo.k31cok.IP) has joined #techbytes [14:45] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@freenode-54p.goo.k31cok.IP) has joined #techbytes [14:51] *schestowitz-TR has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [14:51] *schestowitz-TR has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [14:51] *schestowitz-TR has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [14:51] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes [14:51] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@freenode-54p.goo.k31cok.IP) has joined #techbytes [14:51] *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@freenode-54p.goo.k31cok.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Jan 30 [16:15] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [16:15] *asusbox has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [16:16] *rianne_ (~rianne@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes [16:16] *asusbox (~rianne@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes [16:31] *asusbox has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [16:31] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [16:32] *asusbox (~rianne@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes [16:32] *rianne_ (~rianne@24axkg87jqny6.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Jan 30 [18:01] *sajat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [18:01] *sajat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [18:02] *sajat (~sajat@freenode-18n.kt5.366lq5.IP) has joined #techbytes [18:02] *sajat (~sajat@freenode-18n.kt5.366lq5.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Jan 30 [19:59] *sajat_ (~sajat@freenode-7cv.8nv.s2eq7b.IP) has joined #techbytes [19:59] *sajat_ (~sajat@freenode-7cv.8nv.s2eq7b.IP) has joined #techbytes ● Jan 30 [20:02] *sajat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [20:02] *sajat has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [20:17] schestowitz[TR] https://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2024/01/28/quality-at-the-epo-staff-and-industry-concerns-not-addressed/#comments [20:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Quality at the EPO: staff and industry concerns not addressed - Kluwer Patent Blog [20:17] schestowitz[TR] " [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The people deciding are the ones receving money from the system, how can that be? [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Reply [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Concerned observer [20:17] schestowitz[TR] January 29, 2024 at 1:47 pm [20:17] schestowitz[TR] I fully share the concerns voiced by Transparency International. It is true that the lack of independent governance at the EPO cannot go well. However, there is also ample evidence of it not going well. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The proposal for very substantial hikes in 3rd and 4th year renewal fees are a case in point, as that was made by the EPO in the absence of any attempt to demonstrate that such increases were required in order to ensure it met the only relevant legal requirement, namely producing a balanced budget. And yet the AC rubber-stamped those proposals, seemingly without so much as a murmur of dissent or requests for further information. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] With the AC demonstrating such a lack of professional curiosity, how can the patent profession and the general public be confident that there is nothing untoward going on behind the scenes? I mean, what does the EPO really intend to do with all of those extra funds that it will accumulate as a result of the fee increases? Add them to its already over-inflated annual surplus? [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Reply [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Look at it [20:17] schestowitz[TR] January 29, 2024 at 8:54 pm [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The problem is indeed that the AC has given up its function of controlling the office. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] When the AC controlled the office, Leidschendam was grounded by the AC (for later building a replacement for the old IIB tower). Some presidents had to fight hard to get the financial discharge by the AC. Lots of money was wasted, but there was some control. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Nowadays, the tail is wagging the dog. By modulationg the cooperation budget, the upper floor of the Isar building is getting what it wants. This goes on a par with the promisses of lots of grants=lots of revenue from annual fees. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The problem is that most decisions are taken at the simple majority. When it was decided to exile the boards to the periphery of Munich all big countries voted against. The smaller ones, helped with the cooperation budget, voted according to the desires of the Napoleon of the 10th floor. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Now the same countries acccept that the boards are repatriated into Munich, even if it is not back to the Isar building. This back and forth with the boards is a scandal on its own. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Lots of money has been thrown out of the windows with many actions of the management. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] This money could have served to keep the fees down. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] That an international organisation can be run as this is simply not acceptable. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Reply [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Caballero [20:17] schestowitz[TR] January 29, 2024 at 5:35 pm [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Efficiency, production, speed and timeliness on the one side and quality of the granted patents on the other. you need both. If production is what gets the examiners paid you cannot have quality without it. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Reply [20:17] schestowitz[TR] DXThomas [20:17] schestowitz[TR] January 29, 2024 at 6:36 pm [20:17] schestowitz[TR] I can only concur with the conclusions of the CSC. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] On another blog, I published the results of the analysis of 1171 published decisions in 2023 of the boards of appeal following an appeal after opposition. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] As the boards of appeal are deciding in last instance on the validity of a granted patent, published decisions of the boards are the only benchmark available, unless one considers that decisions of the boards cannot be trusted. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] From those 1171 published decisions, 1051 where final decisions. Among those 1051 final decisions, 46.4% were revocations, 33,3 % maintenance in amended form and 20,3% rejections of the opposition. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 60% of the 1171 published decisions, the ODs decision was set aside. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Some figures stick out [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 32,3% of the cases, the decision of maintenance of the OD was changed into revocation. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 16,7% of the cases, the decision of maintenance of the OD was confirmed but in a different form, in general more restricted, rarely broader. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 16,0% of the cases, the decision of rejection of the opposition of the OD was changed in revocation. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 7,5% of the cases, the decision of rejection of the opposition of the OD was changed in maintenance in amended form, i.e. more limited. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 7,5% of the cases, the decision of rejection of the opposition of the OD was changed in remittal for further prosecution. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In 120 cases the board decided to remit for further prosecution. By doing so it also set aside the decision of the OD. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] Another interesting figure is that in 2023, only in 6% of the 1171 cases, opponents came with documents which were truly not available in the search files of the EPO. Those concern public prior uses, catalogues, oral disclosures at conferences, minutes of conferences or PhD dissertations. For the preceding years, the proportion was higher, 10%, but not fundamentally different. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] On the blog, there are some anonymous comments which can manifestly only emanate from the EPO. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] It has been alleged that, contrary to my figures, 60% of decisions of ODs are upheld. To come to this figure, any decision of an OD which is not appealed is considered upheld. As the EPO does not know the reasons why there was no appeal, this conclusion is quite daring, to say the least. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] In a system with two instances, when the second instance sets aside 60% of the decisions of the first instance, some conclusions have to be drawn. That boards can have a different position on a given topic is not at stake. A proportion of divergences of 20%, even 30%, appears acceptable, but not 60%. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] It was also claimed that 40% of appeals do not lead to a published decision, because the appeal was not validly filed (essentially no arguments, no fee paid). This as well cannot be true. In the absence of a statement of grounds of appeal, the board decides that the appeal is not admissible and publishes a corresponding decision. If no appeal fee is paid within the 9 months, then the appeal is not deemed filed and the appeal fee is [20:17] schestowitz[TR] to be reimbursed. Here again, the boards takes and publishes a decision. Decisions in which the appeal is not admissible or not deemed filed have not been taken into account in the 1171. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] It was also claimed that the number of cases I have studied (1171) might be almost infinitesimal compared with the number of grants published (around 1%). On the other hand, if a granted patent does not resist a serious scrutiny when it appears important for parties, then it does not bode well for all the patents which are not scrutinised. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] As oppositions are not evenly distributed over all technical domains, they do not allow to make a direct assessment of the overall quality of the work delivered by the EPO, but represents nevertheless a good indicator. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The technical areas in which oppositions occur has also changed over the years. Oppositions occur in competitive areas, either due to new emerging technologies or in which competitors want to keep or increase their slice of the market. In those areas, or for instance for SMEs, it is important to obtain patents with a very high presumption of validity. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] If patents which appear important for parties are not resisting oppositions very well, it allows to have doubts about the validity of patents which are not opposed. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] The above conclusions were communicated to the President and to VP1 before publication. No reaction came from the EPO before publication. After publication, only some anonymous comments have manifestly come from the EPO. [20:17] schestowitz[TR] " ● Jan 30 [22:35] *psydroid2 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) ● Jan 30 [23:53] *Moocher5254 has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)