●● IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, November 30, 2023 ●● ● Nov 30 [01:38] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/11/referral-on-description-amendments.html?showComment=1701194319014#c8808822013737632180 [01:38] schestowitz "The prospect of a referral, and a stay, with its likely hugely negative effect on management's precious "production" statistics, is surely seen on the top floor of the EPO as an "appalling vista", intolerable at any price.

UK readers will recall that expression from Lord Denning's notorious speech in 1980 refusing to admit a petition from the wrongly-imprisoned Birmingham Six (because if their petition we [01:38] schestowitz re to be admitted and then succeed if would mean that there had been a scandalous and egregious miscarriage of justice which would destroy the confidence of the English in their system of administration of justice).

My suspicion is that, in the event of a referral, EPO upper management will simply give instructions to DG 1 to ignore T166/84 and instead to carry on regardless. After all, nobody will thereby suffer any harm, [01:38] schestowitz will they? And then, as the next step, it will set about engineering a creative EBA decision that legitimates established practice. What's going to stop that happening, I wonder." [01:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Referral on description amendments moves one step closer (T 56/21) - The IPKat [01:41] schestowitz http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2023/11/referral-on-description-amendments.html?showComment=1701187733544#c2826022005021070330 [01:41] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Referral on description amendments moves one step closer (T 56/21) - The IPKat [01:41] schestowitz "There is no question that, if a referral is made to the EBA, a stay should be imposed in all cases where the decision depends entirely on the outcome of the referral.

See the CLBA at V.A 11.6.15 (https://www.epo.org/en/legal/case-law/2022/clr_v_a_11_6_15.html):
"Where a decision of the examining division depended entirely on the outcome of proceedings before the Enlarged Board of Appeal on a legal questio [01:41] schestowitz n or point of law raised under Art. 112 EPC 1973 and this was known to the examining division the further examination of the application had to be suspended until the matter had been decided by the Enlarged Board of Appeal. Failure to do so amounted to a substantial procedural violation under R. 67 EPC 1973 (T 166/84, OJ 1984, 489). See also chapter V.B.2.5.3 "Stay of first instance proceedings following a referral"."

However, given the potentially dramatic (negative) effect upon the EPO's "production" figures, I agree that it is far from clear whether a stay of proceedings will be granted (either ex officio or upon request) in relevant cases, or whether the legal principle set out in T 166/84 will instead be consigned to the waste bin." [01:41] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.epo.org | 11.6.15 Referral pending before Enlarged Board [01:42] schestowitz "How cannot be shameful a decision which violates art. 52(1) EPC ("...SHALL grant...") and is based instead on art. 125 EPC which does not have much to do with double patenting, and even if this had been the case, then it should have allowed double patenting as most EPC member states allow double (European/national) patenting (e.g. Germany, France, Italy and many others)?
Moreover, the same EPO allows double patenting whe [01:42] schestowitz n applicants are not exaclty the same.
Furthermore, it is clear already from the TP that double patenting was a matter left to national law, so G 4/19 deprives EPC member states to get double patents, if their national law allows.
Anyway, I agree with tou that G 2/19 is also shameful, while G 3/19 and G 1/21 are on the borderline." [01:42] schestowitz "Interesting. Of all the EBA's decisions, I would not have identified G4/19 ("Double patenting") as being "shameful".

Care to share your reasons for finding G4/19 to be so distasteful?

Personally, I would have thought that, if one were seeking exemplars of "shameful" EBA decisions, then one need look no further than G2/19 ("Right to be heard and the correct venue for oral proceedi [01:42] schestowitz ngs"), G3/19 ("Article 164(2) EPC / Pepper") or G1/21 ("Oral proceedings by videoconference")." ● Nov 30 [02:35] *Alatheia has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [02:36] *Alatheia has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [02:41] *Alatheia (~Alatheia@176.254.244.83) has joined #techbytes [02:44] *KindOne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [02:45] *Alatheia (~Alatheia@freenode-2ue.6ih.pu7h8v.IP) has joined #techbytes [02:47] *KindOne_ (~KindOne@23xffjdf3phbn.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 30 [03:52] *Alatheia has quit (Excess Flood) [03:52] *Alatheia (~Alatheia@176.254.244.83) has joined #techbytes [03:59] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Nov 30 [04:11] *jacobk (~quassel@99ed6ukzxymmc.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:19] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [04:20] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@cgquwbwxtr2yq.irc) has joined #techbytes [04:40] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [04:41] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@cgquwbwxtr2yq.irc) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 30 [06:42] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Nov 30 [07:34] *jacobk (~quassel@nze7sex4gemfs.irc) has joined #techbytes [07:44] *jacobk has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Nov 30 [08:04] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:05] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #techbytes [08:06] *jacobk (~quassel@32hz32it3ih2k.irc) has joined #techbytes [08:46] schestowitz x https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/uber-tries-to-win-over-london-black-cabs/articleshow/105589955.cms [08:46] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-economictimes.indiatimes.com | Uber: Uber tries to win over London black cabs - The Economic Times ● Nov 30 [09:03] schestowitz
  • [09:03] schestowitz
    Open source email pioneer Roundcube joins the Nextcloud family
    [09:03] schestowitz
    [09:03] schestowitz

    We are thrilled to announce that Roundcube project has found a new home with Nextcloud. Becoming a new steward for a popular webmail client trusted in highly regulated industries and among security-savvy users alike, we set sail to foster the growth and improvement of the project. This brings about a new milestone for global IT decentralization. Read on to understand why.

    [09:03] schestowitz
    [09:03] schestowitz
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