Join us now at the IRC channel.
| MinceR | (audio:music only) https://i.imgur.com/6qz84Xr.mp4 ( https://imgur.com/gallery/cVHt2Ld ) | Jan 02 00:42 |
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| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cake day post (1st one I didn't miss) - Album on Imgur | Jan 02 00:42 | |
| schestowitz | Richard Stallman wrote on 01/01/2020 23:18:> > I need to correct myself: Netflix uses BSD on the servers. | Jan 02 00:48 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 02 00:48 |
| schestowitz | > What software is in Netflix's servers has no effect on the customers | Jan 02 00:48 |
| schestowitz | > of Netflix. This is why I say that the injustice of online | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | > dis-services is a separate issue from free vs nonfree software. We | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | > can say "unjust computing practices" to cover both of them, but the | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | > two are very different in nature. | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | A long time ago I called that fog computing. But years later companies began using "fog computing" as an actual buzzword for a real thing! | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Nowadays in Techrights we call that Clown Computing, as in ClownFlare etc. | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | In your talks last year I saw you calling it "dis-service". I think we really need to campaign around these words and buzzwords. | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | If you re regularly read Techrights, then you'll see we've adopted your approach of confronting the underlying words/terms/nisnomers. | Jan 02 00:49 |
| schestowitz | A common criticism of the FSF in recent years is, not enough was done to combat these new kinds of threats. Would you consider rejoining the FSF's Board is that becomes possible and feasible? Oliva is 'watching the fort' for you and members want you back. | Jan 02 00:49 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/644604.jpg | Jan 02 00:52 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: “Prove that you care about the Mission of the FSF — And DEFEND SOFTWARE FREEDOM.” http://techrights.org/2020/01/01/the-fsf-wall-communication/ #fsf #softwarefreedom #rms #gnu #freesw [https://pleroma.site/objects/7ebe0e8b-3b4d-46ee-8aca-f6206da32c64] | Jan 02 01:08 | |
| MinceR | it would be nice if the fsf cared about that | Jan 02 01:09 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: "I wouldn't notice that either, for you see, I have an adblocker blocker blocker" | Jan 02 01:11 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: You know what would be honest? "Crowd computing" :) | Jan 02 01:13 |
| XRevan86 | As in shared resources | Jan 02 01:13 |
| XRevan86 | But I guess that can be seen positively or negatively | Jan 02 01:14 |
| XRevan86 | Though who likes crowds | Jan 02 01:15 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: i think i'm supposed to have an adblocker blocker list in my adblocker, but it doesn't seem to work at all | Jan 02 01:16 |
| MinceR | i usually just disable the scripts of the offending page if i want to give them another chance | Jan 02 01:16 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's not very effective, yes. | Jan 02 01:18 |
| XRevan86 | What is "cloud computing" by its very nature? Delegate computing? | Jan 02 01:20 |
| XRevan86 | Outsourced computing? | Jan 02 01:21 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Man Who Sold the (Linux) World http://techrights.org/2020/01/01/zemlin-sold-the-linux-world/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/6b1597a6-f28b-41bb-8e85-935111d919ac] | Jan 02 01:21 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kate - LSP Client Status http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132379 [https://pleroma.site/objects/16990aeb-085c-47ef-ae4c-8dfca599c827] | Jan 02 01:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132380 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bdc2a8bb-4811-45cf-8d39-72f9f75c1fac] | Jan 02 01:23 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: There's Nano Defender, but it's relatively hard to set up with uBlock° | Jan 02 01:24 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19082810 | Jan 02 01:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Jan 02 01:26 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Which you could argue is an ad blocker blocker blocker blocker blocker (: | Jan 02 01:28 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 02 01:28 |
| schestowitz | let's do a yo dawg meme? | Jan 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | [01:13] <XRevan86> schestowitz: You know what would be honest? "Crowd computing" :) | Jan 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | sounds like dweb | Jan 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | blockchain etc. | Jan 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | i.e. the opposite of clown computing | Jan 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | crowdsourcing can be seen as a good thing | Jan 02 01:33 |
| XRevan86 | Clod computing | Jan 02 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Jean Claude Computing | Jan 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | kicks you right in the NUTS! | Jan 02 01:34 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 02 01:35 |
| XRevan86 | Cloud -> clod is also phonologically freaky, as "au" in English speech tends to shift to "o" (auto), so it's like a next step after ou -> au | Jan 02 01:35 |
| XRevan86 | Second derivative | Jan 02 01:36 |
| XRevan86 | (ou)'' | Jan 02 01:36 |
| MinceR | it would certainly be nice if the fsf launched an anti-systemd campaign and gnu gave gnome leaders the choice between starting respecting users' freedom and being kicked from the gnu project | Jan 02 01:41 |
| MinceR | but neither of those is likely to happen | Jan 02 01:41 |
| XRevan86 | To kick GNOME from GNU one needs to kick it in first. | Jan 02 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | An anti-systemd campaign would be an interesting sight to see. | Jan 02 01:45 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Can you outline the exact grounds on which FSF can lead an anti-systemd campaign? | Jan 02 01:46 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html | Jan 02 01:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gnu.org | What is free software? - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation | Jan 02 01:47 | |
| MinceR | "“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community." | Jan 02 01:47 |
| MinceR | systemd is the opposite of that. | Jan 02 01:47 |
| cubexyz | no systemd: slackware, void, KNOPPIX, alpine, the BSDs, ReactOS, antiX | Jan 02 01:47 |
| cubexyz | probably a bunch of other ones | Jan 02 01:47 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: This is literally about licensing. | Jan 02 01:48 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I doubt FSF will go ahead and say the licence systemd is licensed with isn't free. | Jan 02 01:48 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: then they should replace the FSD with the text of the OSD to reflect this | Jan 02 01:49 |
| MinceR | because as it stands, "free software" is not about licensing, but about the 4 freedoms. | Jan 02 01:49 |
| MinceR | also, last time i checked, GNOME was still part of the GNU project | Jan 02 01:49 |
| MinceR | (strangely enough, considering how much they've done to destroy GNU) | Jan 02 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: The four freedoms granted (waivered) by a licence. | Jan 02 01:50 |
| cubexyz | add freedom to repair to the list | Jan 02 01:50 |
| MinceR | and while they're at it, they might as well close shop and point people to OSI as their successor | Jan 02 01:51 |
| MinceR | because that was literally the difference between the two organizations | Jan 02 01:51 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Technically, yes, GNOME is. But they don't need it and don't really care | Jan 02 01:51 |
| MinceR | then perhaps it's time to formalize it | Jan 02 01:51 |
| MinceR | and for an anti-GNOME campaign as well | Jan 02 01:51 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/YHglrXY.mp4 ( https://imgur.com/gallery/HnCx97A ) | Jan 02 01:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Imgur: The magic of the Internet | Jan 02 01:53 | |
| cubexyz | didn't M$ have two keys, one for windows and one for third party? | Jan 02 01:53 |
| cubexyz | they could revoke the 3rd party key and leave theirs working | Jan 02 01:53 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: IIRC, yes | Jan 02 01:53 |
| MinceR | not sure if it was two or three (one for themselves, one for red hat, one for canonical) | Jan 02 01:55 |
| MinceR | but the whole point of the key business is that they could revoke them | Jan 02 01:55 |
| MinceR | at least if the "pc" booted into an OS that downloaded and obeyed their updates (like Backdoors) | Jan 02 01:55 |
| MinceR | and it would be trivial to cobble together some false flag operation to justify it | Jan 02 01:56 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: When you look at a page that states what is and isn't free software, what do you see? Is it licences? | Jan 02 01:56 |
| cubexyz | I'm also worried that coreboot can't boot on some SSD's | Jan 02 01:57 |
| XRevan86 | The free software definition does not tackle how a project is managed or by whom | Jan 02 01:57 |
| cubexyz | I'd definitely want to test that | Jan 02 01:58 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: It's hard for me to imagine | Jan 02 01:58 |
| XRevan86 | "RAID"-mode or something? | Jan 02 01:58 |
| XRevan86 | What kind of SSD won't support AHCI? | Jan 02 01:59 |
| cubexyz | XRevan86, I'm hearing about problems with coreboot and PureOS not booting | Jan 02 02:00 |
| cubexyz | haven't tried it myself | Jan 02 02:01 |
| XRevan86 | I have a new Samsung SSD (EVO series) and coreboot, no issues. | Jan 02 02:01 |
| MinceR | 02 025625 < XRevan86> MinceR: When you look at a page that states what is and isn't free software, what do you see? Is it licences? | Jan 02 02:03 |
| MinceR | that page would be the FSD, which i linked | Jan 02 02:03 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: PureOS is oddly specific | Jan 02 02:03 |
| MinceR | and licenses aren't in a prime position there | Jan 02 02:03 |
| cubexyz | XRevan86, what hardware is that? | Jan 02 02:03 |
| cubexyz | ASUS maybe? | Jan 02 02:03 |
| XRevan86 | https://gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html I meant this page | Jan 02 02:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gnu.org | Various Licenses and Comments about Them - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation | Jan 02 02:04 | |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: ThinkPad X230 | Jan 02 02:04 |
| MinceR | the problem is not how a project is managed or by whom, it's the unnecessary dependencies built into it constraining what other software you can or can't use, for no good reason, and making the code unnecessarily difficult for others to maintain | Jan 02 02:04 |
| MinceR | "free software" and "free software license" are not the same thing | Jan 02 02:05 |
| MinceR | again, it's the OSD that's all about licenses | Jan 02 02:05 |
| XRevan86 | An anti-Qt FSF campaign would also be a fun sight. | Jan 02 02:05 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Catfish 1.4.12 Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132381 [https://pleroma.site/objects/be11aa0b-11aa-4f0b-942e-86f391c41993] | Jan 02 02:08 | |
| XRevan86 | Consequences of *demanding* that a project maintains absolute flexibility (can that even be a thing?) are hard to imagine. | Jan 02 02:08 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best GIF Maker Apps for Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132382 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2481455a-c16f-4885-aed8-835fd6f0fa04] | Jan 02 02:11 | |
| MinceR | i don't know where you're getting these ideas from | Jan 02 02:11 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: If FSF were to campaign against systemd, they'd need a rather formal list of what freedoms systemd violate. | Jan 02 02:12 |
| schestowitz | 4 freedoms are not enough | Jan 02 02:13 |
| schestowitz | but... | Jan 02 02:13 |
| schestowitz | it's another angle | Jan 02 02:13 |
| schestowitz | it can be free software | Jan 02 02:13 |
| schestowitz | but still there are issues associated issues | Jan 02 02:13 |
| schestowitz | aside from S.F.D. or F.S.D. | Jan 02 02:14 |
| schestowitz | so we need to define those issues | Jan 02 02:14 |
| XRevan86 | If systemd violates freedoms through requiring what it might work without… | Jan 02 02:14 |
| schestowitz | then, ways to tackle them | Jan 02 02:14 |
| schestowitz | systemd is described in http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Librethreat_Database | Jan 02 02:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Librethreat Database - Techrights | Jan 02 02:14 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: then suddenly people who say "I can't use your software, it requires too new gettext, my CentOS 4 has that not" have weight in their voice. | Jan 02 02:15 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: freedoms 0 and 1 | Jan 02 02:15 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132383 [https://pleroma.site/objects/483aa370-4103-4c25-9200-26dcd56ba9e2] | Jan 02 02:16 | |
| XRevan86 | Freedom 1: The project maintainer has to make sure it runs on your computer? | Jan 02 02:18 |
| MinceR | again, i don't know where you're taking this from | Jan 02 02:19 |
| XRevan86 | > the problem is <…> the unnecessary dependencies built into it constraining what other software you can or can't use | Jan 02 02:21 |
| MinceR | for example, forcing journald on the users is an indefensible decision | Jan 02 02:23 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: If with a dozen macros you can lower a gettext dependency requirement, are you obligated to? | Jan 02 02:23 |
| MinceR | users should have the right to choose their system logger | Jan 02 02:23 |
| MinceR | if it's just a gettext version and gettext wasn't radically changed, clearly not | Jan 02 02:23 |
| MinceR | also, gettext versions don't block each other on a system, afaict | Jan 02 02:24 |
| MinceR | while there's only one pid1 | Jan 02 02:24 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: journald doesn't block syslog if you tell it not to. | Jan 02 02:24 |
| MinceR | oh really? | Jan 02 02:25 |
| MinceR | well, in any case, there's an alternative | Jan 02 02:25 |
| MinceR | the fsf could throw in the towel | Jan 02 02:25 |
| MinceR | and we can hide underground, using code we share secretly and anonymously | Jan 02 02:25 |
| MinceR | and not tell the masses or the corporates ever agin | Jan 02 02:26 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introducing Bonsai http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132384 [https://pleroma.site/objects/63a5782c-3b9d-44be-8751-b00bfb14a5f9] | Jan 02 02:26 | |
| MinceR | s/gin/gain/ | Jan 02 02:26 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: And since journald can relay all its messages to syslog, it isn't conflicting at all. | Jan 02 02:26 |
| XRevan86 | And that's without any attempt to try to rip it out, which is also possible. | Jan 02 02:27 |
| MinceR | until someone finds a vulnerability that makes it "forget" to forward some of them | Jan 02 02:27 |
| MinceR | an attempt to rip it out shouldn't even be necessary | Jan 02 02:27 |
| MinceR | they keep spreading their bullshit claims about it being "modular" | Jan 02 02:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's a kitchen sink, that's my opinion | Jan 02 02:28 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is that non-free though? There are many kitchen sinks of varying shapes and sizes out there | Jan 02 02:29 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: ArchBang Winter Iso Release, Happy New Year http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132385 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7302ccf7-0bb7-44ad-ab49-a4711fb83507] | Jan 02 02:30 | |
| XRevan86 | And systemd really has a use for journald which generic syslog cannot satisfy, so "unnecessary" is also relative and subjective. And you can't really run a campaign on subjectivity, otherwise you just end up a SJW. | Jan 02 02:32 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: not in itself | Jan 02 02:33 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: but this particular kitchen sink was intended to prevent people from using udev on its own and to force journald on people, among other things | Jan 02 02:34 |
| MinceR | also, gnome is trying to force this kitchen sink on people | Jan 02 02:34 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's not that sinister. It's not as much "prevent" as it is "don't care" | Jan 02 02:38 |
| XRevan86 | But udev can be used standalone, probably only for a pragmatic reason: initramfs | Jan 02 02:39 |
| MinceR | yeah, i must be imagining things | Jan 02 02:40 |
| MinceR | https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html | Jan 02 02:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.freedesktop.org | [systemd-devel] [PATCH] Drop the udev firmware loader | Jan 02 02:40 | |
| MinceR | http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1506.2/03764.html | Jan 02 02:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lkml.iu.edu | Linux-Kernel Archive: careful review of kdbus | Jan 02 02:40 | |
| MinceR | nothing to see here, move along | Jan 02 02:40 |
| XRevan86 | kdbus… the project that went nowhere? | Jan 02 02:42 |
| MinceR | the project that went nowhere only because Linus stopped it | Jan 02 02:43 |
| MinceR | recall what happened to Linus since then | Jan 02 02:43 |
| XRevan86 | > Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call. Lennart. | Jan 02 02:43 |
| XRevan86 | What a great line. | Jan 02 02:43 |
| MinceR | but the thing that's interesting about kdbus here is that they attempted to use their ill-gotten installed base of systemd to try to force Linus to merge kdbus | Jan 02 02:43 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Scheduler Woes, Buffered I/O and Userspace Pages http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132386 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3b134913-953f-4575-9b82-23d2fc487663] | Jan 02 02:54 | |
| XRevan86 | Also about unnecessary dependencies: I doubt GNU extensions in libc are very necessary for GNU coreutils, yet I'm fairly sure GNU coreutils require that. Proprietary GNU | Jan 02 02:56 |
| MinceR | at least you can have multiple libc-s on the same system | Jan 02 02:56 |
| XRevan86 | And GNU code is famously cluttered, "unnecessarily difficult for others to maintain". | Jan 02 02:57 |
| MinceR | that's for them to fix | Jan 02 02:57 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/9rQJSNE.jpg | Jan 02 02:58 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Using rsyslog alongside journald is immeasurably easier than to use multiple libc's at the same time. | Jan 02 02:59 |
| XRevan86 | And glibc is a rather complex piece of software, requiring that can be considered limiting | Jan 02 03:01 |
| XRevan86 | An anti-GNU FSF campaign is the ultimate sight to see %) | Jan 02 03:02 |
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| oiaohm | XRevan86: using rsyslog instead of journald completely is simpler than the multipible libc at the same time. | Jan 02 03:15 |
| oiaohm | journald is really option but the documentation to swap it out is spread out all over the place. | Jan 02 03:16 |
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| schestowitz | https://lwn.net/Articles/807550/ | Jan 02 03:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-A year-end wrap-up from LWN [LWN.net] | Jan 02 03:48 | |
| schestowitz | " | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | The other side of evaluating predictions is looking at what was missed. One obvious omission was the leadership transition at the Free Software Foundation as the result of Richard Stallman being forced out. In retrospect, it seems clear that a change had to happen at some point, but saying when it might occur is always hard ahead of the actual event. | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | On the kernel front, the many-year effort to get lockdown capability into the kernel finally came to fruition; that is another event that had to happen sometime, but your editor didn't expect it in 2019. Even more unpredictable was the pidfd API, which seemingly came into existence, fully formed, after the beginning of the year, though rumblings were certainly evident before then. | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | Another surprise was the openSUSE project's decision to separate from SUSE and form a separate foundation. This move is being made partly to make it easier for openSUSE to seek support from multiple sources, but the project still is likely to be dependent on SUSE for some time — perhaps indefinitely. The process of negotiating the project's future relationship — and the use of the openSUSE name, which the project elected to retain — | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | with its former corporate owner is likely to be complex. One can only wish openSUSE well as it charts its course going forward. | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | " | Jan 02 03:48 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/16887325 | Jan 02 03:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Recently I received issue 35 of the FSF Bulletin. (Not yet available at https://www.fsf.org/bulletin .) My copy has already been recycled but it struck me Stallman wasn't mentioned even once." Surreal." https://lwn.net/Articles/807550/ | Jan 02 03:48 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.fsf.org | FSF Bulletins — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software | Jan 02 03:48 | |
| MinceR | i can't wish suse well, "open" or not | Jan 02 03:56 |
| schestowitz | can't blame you | Jan 02 04:03 |
| schestowitz | they can never be trusted, even if they merely rename | Jan 02 04:03 |
| schestowitz | the people in key position have 'cargo' | Jan 02 04:03 |
| schestowitz | or 'baggage' | Jan 02 04:03 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Celebration of #Censorship and Self-Censorship in #Linux http://techrights.org/2020/01/01/celebration-of-censorship/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/26088f2e-c826-46b1-89d7-ec2a77bb5bc8] | Jan 02 04:06 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I distro hopped. | Jan 02 04:45 |
| danielp3344 | wooo! | Jan 02 04:46 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But I've been on Fedora for about 10 years now | Jan 02 04:46 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I thought Mandriva was pretty good. | Jan 02 04:46 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microsoft Loves Linux Funerals http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/microsoft-loves-linux-funerals/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/3d7a55f3-5c81-48a5-8865-9ad221b991fe] | Jan 02 08:25 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Google is Not Your Friend and It Was Never Your Friend http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/gafam-false-choice/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/2c5e1942-e75e-4bac-a13c-915bedea32b7] | Jan 02 08:29 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132393 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a8caaa21-2585-42e5-81e6-8c07d5b97462] | Jan 02 08:29 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132394 [https://pleroma.site/objects/142c3b83-63fb-463d-9b8b-87db344064d5] | Jan 02 10:59 | |
| XRevan86 | https://gitbucket.github.io/gitbucket-news/gitbucket/2019/12/31/gitbucket-4.33.0.html | Jan 02 11:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gitbucket.github.io | GitBucket 4.33.0 released! | Jan 02 11:00 | |
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| schestowitz | what about it? | Jan 02 11:04 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: Didn't notice the release | Jan 02 11:04 |
| schestowitz | a .33 sounds like minor bugfix | Jan 02 11:05 |
| schestowitz | they could do a chrome, or ff copying chrome | Jan 02 11:06 |
| schestowitz | and go 33.4 | Jan 02 11:06 |
| schestowitz | or 33.0.4 | Jan 02 11:06 |
| XRevan86 | or 433.0 :) | Jan 02 11:06 |
| schestowitz | you're not just talking CRAAAZY | Jan 02 11:06 |
| schestowitz | BLAG releases were in the t housands | Jan 02 11:07 |
| XRevan86 | BLAG? | Jan 02 11:07 |
| XRevan86 | https://xkcd.com/148 | Jan 02 11:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Mispronouncing | Jan 02 11:08 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Qubes OS 4.0.2 has been released! http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132395 [https://pleroma.site/objects/08fb8b20-f26a-44e4-89e3-7eb38e4f6132] | Jan 02 12:31 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: DevNation, Java, Go, and Python/Django http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132396 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5fca4c33-5eab-4dbd-98f1-fc0380841394] | Jan 02 12:40 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132397 [https://pleroma.site/objects/03d21831-9a02-4ef5-a5be-6e969f510efb] | Jan 02 12:44 | |
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| oiaohm | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=systemd-2019-stats these does show some horrible level numbers for modification. About 1/5 of the code base was remove and about 1/4 of the code base is new in 12 months. | Jan 02 13:06 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Systemd Is Approaching 1.3 Million Lines While Poettering Lost Top Contributor Spot For 2019 - Phoronix | Jan 02 13:06 | |
| schestowitz | what do the comments there say? | Jan 02 13:35 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/1908289 | Jan 02 13:39 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Jan 02 13:39 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Debian Long Term Support (LTS) and Debian Extended Long Term Support (ELTS), Other News http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132399 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c39f65d2-3ea4-438a-a742-39d32b9e999b] | Jan 02 13:44 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Guide: How to Share A Folder Between Ubuntu/Linux and Windows http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132398 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82e56c91-a37d-4111-90ca-e2845a4b5143] | Jan 02 13:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware and Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132400 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8939d9fa-f2a1-4ba6-b2e1-16b9377a6867] | Jan 02 13:49 | |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19082538 | Jan 02 13:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Jan 02 13:50 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Servers: Container Runtimes, Canonical’s Charmed OpenStack and LF's Confidential (Surveillance) Computing Consortium http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132401 [https://pleroma.site/objects/66a6c60c-8c84-4d9e-bce4-3b070d395a80] | Jan 02 13:51 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: huh? | Jan 02 13:52 |
| XRevan86 | Ah, got it :) | Jan 02 13:53 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 2/1/2020: Catfish 1.4.12, Qubes OS 4.0.2 and Bonsai Introduced http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/catfish-1-4-12/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/a4e6d5ef-7286-4efb-9f7c-b23766804e3d] | Jan 02 14:14 | |
| MinceR | (audio:important) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/14/08ee9eeb63761bc4.mp4 | Jan 02 14:29 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How #Microsoft tells its shareholders that it's winning even when it's losing big to #gnu #linux http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/motivational-words/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/77a6d0a0-2a10-49e1-87e4-f594b546e9b3] | Jan 02 14:34 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: fehk | Jan 02 14:46 |
| psydroid | Microsoft is winning the hearts and minds of people the world over | Jan 02 14:55 |
| XRevan86 | Somehow I remember that my listening comprehension of English is not very good roughly at the same time I start watching new episodes of Doctor Who. | Jan 02 15:08 |
| psydroid | I can believe that, I had a lot of trouble watching the BBC in high school, it wasn't until I entered university that I felt my listening comprehension substantially improved | Jan 02 15:11 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Old BBC is a lot easier to understand though. | Jan 02 15:11 |
| XRevan86 | When they enforced RP and clear enunciation. | Jan 02 15:12 |
| MinceR | i find us english to be much easier to understand in audio than uk english | Jan 02 15:12 |
| XRevan86 | I'm fine with them being more inclusive with Irish and Scottish accents, but these new London accents… | Jan 02 15:12 |
| XRevan86 | boy are they hard to make out | Jan 02 15:13 |
| psydroid | XRevan86, so you are saying it got worse? | Jan 02 15:13 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: It got more willy-nilly | Jan 02 15:14 |
| psydroid | I had people at work in Dublin from North Dublin and Yorkshire among others and also met Indians with weird intonations, so I probably got used to it and don't have a lot of trouble understanding most of them | Jan 02 15:15 |
| psydroid | but yes, I even have that with Hindi movies these days | Jan 02 15:15 |
| XRevan86 | intonations are weird, but words are clear at least | Jan 02 15:15 |
| psydroid | they are using more dialects and slang than ever before and that's not good if you only ever heard the standard language with standard pronunciation | Jan 02 15:16 |
| XRevan86 | https://youtu.be/f7V_AAA3lVA?t=82 not the worst, but also has notable moments | Jan 02 15:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The Doctor and the Dalek Face Off | Resolution | Doctor Who - YouTube | Jan 02 15:17 | |
| XRevan86 | > they're really stupin | Jan 02 15:17 |
| XRevan86 | is that "stubborn" or "stupid"? | Jan 02 15:17 |
| XRevan86 | > they fough of so many things | Jan 02 15:18 |
| XRevan86 | thought? fought? | Jan 02 15:18 |
| psydroid | oh my, and this isn't even that much of an accent | Jan 02 15:19 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Yes, it really isn't | Jan 02 15:19 |
| XRevan86 | Others talk way more differently in Doctor Who | Jan 02 15:21 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: And here she is trying to talk clearly | Jan 02 15:22 |
| XRevan86 | she doesn't always | Jan 02 15:22 |
| XRevan86 | I also found it very peculiar just how much English changed at the centre of England. | Jan 02 15:27 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Programs Aren't “Linux Commands” But GNU Programs http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/gnu-programs-as-linux-commands/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/9244c463-9121-43f8-a0af-4e6fd5e2a096] | Jan 02 15:28 | |
| XRevan86 | https://youtu.be/2ck9DzZwrWY?t=47 the very first complete sentence in this clip | Jan 02 15:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Graham and Ryan vs Tim Shaw | The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos | Doctor Who - YouTube | Jan 02 15:29 | |
| XRevan86 | "I shwore if I ever shaw you again I'd kill you" | Jan 02 15:30 |
| XRevan86 | shweet | Jan 02 15:30 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Try 1:04 here | Jan 02 15:31 |
| XRevan86 | "you're not the only ones who can… conscience the vow of nothing" | Jan 02 15:32 |
| XRevan86 | "tables in the portal, big fig ones" | Jan 02 15:34 |
| MinceR | my favorite vow | Jan 02 15:35 |
| XRevan86 | I know she said "big", but she literally says "fig" | Jan 02 15:35 |
| XRevan86 | what is happening with consonant voiceness? | Jan 02 15:35 |
| psydroid | XRevan86, maybe it was always like this and the media just gave us perfect RP, which they aren't doing anymore | Jan 02 15:35 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19082434 | Jan 02 15:35 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Jan 02 15:35 | |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Diverging more and more behind the curtains | Jan 02 15:35 |
| XRevan86 | Of course here English is… uncomplainable: https://youtu.be/K3CWXqUqPFA | Jan 02 15:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-No Doctor I'm the Doctor! | Doctor Who | Robot | BBC - YouTube | Jan 02 15:37 | |
| psydroid | I heard big thing ones | Jan 02 15:37 |
| psydroid | thick? | Jan 02 15:37 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Oh, yes, it's "thick" | Jan 02 15:38 |
| XRevan86 | "then split the fielt… must be able to split the fielt" | Jan 02 15:39 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Here's a great example of enunciation, notice how she says "must be able to" | Jan 02 15:40 |
| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/12/7829ad2790f1b716.jpg | Jan 02 15:41 |
| XRevan86 | I can't imagine anyone watching that without earphones and absolute attention | Jan 02 15:43 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: what is this? | Jan 02 15:49 |
| MinceR | interference pattern between two perforated sheets with a hexagonal pattern of circular holes | Jan 02 15:51 |
| psydroid | maybe if you lived there and got used to the various accents | Jan 02 15:51 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Indeed, but that shouldn't be the requirement. | Jan 02 15:52 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: And more importantly, there should be standards of diction. | Jan 02 15:53 |
| psydroid | I speak both Dutch and German but I don't understand any Limburgian dialect that is spoken in the border province | Jan 02 15:55 |
| psydroid | however this is supposed to be universally intelligible English | Jan 02 15:55 |
| MinceR | do they provide subtitles? | Jan 02 15:55 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: On eyePlayer – yes. | Jan 02 15:56 |
| MinceR | pfft | Jan 02 15:56 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: BBC America should make a dub :) | Jan 02 15:57 |
| MinceR | subtitles > dub | Jan 02 15:57 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's a joke | Jan 02 15:57 |
| psydroid | XRevan86, I'm afraid that would make the series unwatchable :) | Jan 02 15:58 |
| MinceR | "England and America are two countries separated by a common language." | Jan 02 15:58 |
| XRevan86 | and it's already ironic that you would consider a dub from London English to General 'merican a concept to consider %) | Jan 02 15:58 |
| MinceR | — Attributed to George Bernard Shaw | Jan 02 15:58 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: Now I can really tell you haven't seen the latest seasons %) | Jan 02 16:01 |
| XRevan86 | I'm just extremely loyal | Jan 02 16:01 |
| XRevan86 | I'd blame the writer, Chris Chibnall, but it's plainly shot bad. | Jan 02 16:02 |
| XRevan86 | ly | Jan 02 16:03 |
| XRevan86 | After the removal of Steven Moffat it feels like Doctor Who was replaced with a cheap knock-off. | Jan 02 16:07 |
| XRevan86 | And the last season of Steven Moffat was tired already, yet even after that season 11 feels like a downgrade. | Jan 02 16:08 |
| psydroid | I watched it when David Tennant was on the series, he probably isn't anymore | Jan 02 16:09 |
| XRevan86 | psydroid: He was replaced with Matt Smith (and RTD → Steven Moffat), who was replaced with Peter Capaldi, who was replaced with Jodie Whittaker (and Moffat → Chris Chibnall) | Jan 02 16:10 |
| danielp3344 | I only watch the ones that made it onto VHS :P | Jan 02 16:11 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: The new series was good too | Jan 02 16:12 |
| XRevan86 | It lived on for a decade no less | Jan 02 16:12 |
| XRevan86 | I won't be surprised if I hear that season 12 is going to be the last one. | Jan 02 16:15 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645162.jpg | Jan 02 16:20 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/BrideOfLinux/status/1212773161617514497 | Jan 02 16:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@BrideOfLinux: It's not going to happen, but the Linux Foundation has showed time and time again that it's no friend of desktop Li… https://t.co/c1uhbxDlc0 | Jan 02 16:33 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@BrideOfLinux: It's not going to happen, but the Linux Foundation has showed time and time again that it's no friend of desktop Li… https://t.co/c1uhbxDlc0 | Jan 02 16:33 | |
| schestowitz | "It's not going to happen, but the Linux Foundation has showed time and time again that it's no friend of desktop Linux or the community around it: Linux Suggestion for 2020 - Linus Should Grab His Trademark and Abandon the Linux Foundation Like He Did OSDL" | Jan 02 16:33 |
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| MinceR | s/desktop // | Jan 02 17:12 |
| MinceR | FTFY | Jan 02 17:12 |
| MinceR | and yes he should, if he's still at liberty to do so | Jan 02 17:12 |
| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/12/65f239f858ed65f9.jpg | Jan 02 17:21 |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/12/ed369b712a7ca8a5.png | Jan 02 17:31 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 'Cancel Culture' in Debian Project http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/debian-project-censorship/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/2ec9eb32-49ab-4546-8bcd-859659f01bdd] | Jan 02 17:50 | |
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| matlock | I don't understand what Microsoft has to do with a hard drive coming pre-formatted as exFAT other than the drive maker wanting to make sure it worked out of the box with the most popular OS. It also doesn't come pre-formatted as APFS for macOS users. Is it really that hard to re-format a disk to your preferred format? | Jan 02 17:51 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KStars v3.3.9 is Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132403 [https://pleroma.site/objects/230d93ea-fb9f-49c5-9238-befd0c90b12c] | Jan 02 18:03 | |
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| schestowitz | matlock: Windows is not popular | Jan 02 18:03 |
| oiaohm | matlock: exfat comes about because Microsoft got that into the sdxc standard. | Jan 02 18:04 |
| matlock | What does SDXC have to do with a hard drive? | Jan 02 18:04 |
| psydroid | Microsoft has everything to do with it, as their software is the standard on the x86 hardware standard that the company has control over to a large extent. If storage companies really wanted to offer products that were ready to use, they would also offer drives that are pre-formatted with APFS or ext4, bit that doesn't happen | Jan 02 18:05 |
| psydroid | but* | Jan 02 18:05 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Systemd Is Approaching 1.3 Million Lines While Poettering Lost Top Contributor Spot For 2019 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132404 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5c9958be-35db-4b9a-b8e5-eddf6947f5cb] | Jan 02 18:05 | |
| matlock | psydroid Exactly, Windows, whether we like it or not, is the most popular OS and most generic PC components are going to come pre-configured for those users as a convenience. But no one is stopping you from reformatting to EXT4, BtrFS, ZFS, whatever you want, you still have control over the device. | Jan 02 18:09 |
| MinceR | if it's so popular, why does microshit have to blackmail PC OEMs to not offer other OS-es preinstalled on PC-s? | Jan 02 18:11 |
| MinceR | if it's so popular, why does microshit have to replace the boot firmware with one that is designed to lock competing OS-es out? | Jan 02 18:11 |
| MinceR | it's the same story as with cancerd | Jan 02 18:11 |
| MinceR | we're supposed to believe that [product the authoritarians are trying to force on us] is so great that everybody wants to use it anyway, but then they go and try to force it on us anyway | Jan 02 18:12 |
| psydroid | matlock, Windows, whether we like it or not, is becomingly increasingly irrelevant, so that doesn't fully explain why such devices come preformatted with very low-end filesystems that shouldn't even be considered for storing temporary data, let alone permanent data | Jan 02 18:12 |
| MinceR | if cancerd and winblows were as great as their peddlers claim they are, they wouldn't have to force them on us and we'd _want_ to use them anyway | Jan 02 18:12 |
| psydroid | it's not popular, it's just Microsoft forcing their inferior standards on tbe computer industry and as a consequence everyone suffers | Jan 02 18:13 |
| psydroid | the* | Jan 02 18:13 |
| samiamsam | cancerd? | Jan 02 18:13 |
| MinceR | as for FAT, either it shouldn't be the default on storage devices (including the standard for SD cards) or microshit shouldn't get to own patents on it which they use to control/extort corporations that sell Linux-based devices | Jan 02 18:13 |
| MinceR | samiamsam: also known as systemd | Jan 02 18:14 |
| psydroid | it's the last thing they can do in an industry where Microsoft is a has-been | Jan 02 18:14 |
| samiamsam | oh | Jan 02 18:14 |
| samiamsam | who is forcing you to use systemd | Jan 02 18:14 |
| MinceR | red hat is trying | Jan 02 18:14 |
| samiamsam | but you're not forced to use redhat | Jan 02 18:14 |
| MinceR | they subverted the distribution i was using and destroyed it from the inside to try to get me to use it | Jan 02 18:14 |
| MinceR | they made gnome depend on it | Jan 02 18:14 |
| MinceR | they're still trying to move functionality from Linux to cancerd so i'd have to use cancerd if i were to use Linux | Jan 02 18:15 |
| MinceR | they tried to cripple some firmware loading functionality in Linux so people would have to use systemd-udevd | Jan 02 18:15 |
| samiamsam | being concerned about dependencies being forced on you... using gnome | Jan 02 18:15 |
| samiamsam | pick 1 | Jan 02 18:15 |
| matlock | MinceR Dell, HP, Lenovo all offer Linux pre-installed on certain workstation and server models. Microsoft ensured users running incompatible OSes could disable secure boot until distro makers adopted UEFI. | Jan 02 18:16 |
| MinceR | yeah, i remember the hidden webshite dHell hid their PCs with Linux preinstalled on | Jan 02 18:16 |
| MinceR | and it sold only in the USA or something like that | Jan 02 18:16 |
| MinceR | though i guess the world _is_ the USA for you | Jan 02 18:16 |
| matlock | psydroid If you were a major PC drive maker selling through general channels, what format would you ship drives in to ensure maximum compatibility with most users? | Jan 02 18:17 |
| MinceR | distro makers adopting UEFI doesn't solve the Restricted Boot problem, as microsloth still decides what OS-es are allowed to boot | Jan 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | [18:11] <MinceR> if it's so popular, why does microshit have to blackmail PC OEMs to not offer other OS-es preinstalled on PC-s? | Jan 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | need to look up def of "popular" | Jan 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | many people use Windows, but rarely by choice. Many prefer Android these days, partly by choice. | Jan 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Is influenza popular? | Jan 02 18:18 |
| matlock | There is 'popular | Jan 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | maybe ubiquitous | Jan 02 18:19 |
| matlock | ' as in well-liked and popular as in common, I was using it in the common designation | Jan 02 18:19 |
| schestowitz | like traffic tickets | Jan 02 18:19 |
| psydroid | matlock, I would offer a choice of NTFS/exFAT, APFS and ext4 | Jan 02 18:19 |
| MinceR | like cancer | Jan 02 18:19 |
| MinceR | i would offer a choice of filesystems unencumbered by patents and with a publicly available specification | Jan 02 18:20 |
| MinceR | if microsuck wants their shitty filesystem catered to, they should give up the patent racket based on it | Jan 02 18:21 |
| matlock | psydroid I understand. That would likely increase manufacturing costs. Are you okay with paying that premium? Apple sells third-party drives pre-formatted APFS that are twice as expensive as the same storage at Best Buy. You'd be good with that? | Jan 02 18:21 |
| psydroid | <matlock "MinceR Dell, HP, Lenovo all offe"> I don't want to be dependent on the "generosity" of Microsoft | Jan 02 18:21 |
| MinceR | how would that increase manufacturing costs? | Jan 02 18:21 |
| MinceR | do you realize that the exact same physical device can hold all these filesystems? | Jan 02 18:21 |
| MinceR | psydroid: good, since they don't have any | Jan 02 18:21 |
| danielp3344 | can't we ship blank disks? | Jan 02 18:22 |
| danielp3344 | surely users can format them | Jan 02 18:22 |
| matlock | Three SKUs, three places on the shelf they would have rent from retailers, additional returns from people who bought the wrong one accidentally. | Jan 02 18:22 |
| danielp3344 | and it saves a manufacturing step | Jan 02 18:22 |
| MinceR | danielp3344: it should be possible | Jan 02 18:22 |
| psydroid | matlock, that's a strawman argument, it's up to the hardware manufacturer to pre-format the hard drive or do nothing at all | Jan 02 18:22 |
| MinceR | iirc their beloved winblows even asks you if you want to "format" a disk it doesn't understand | Jan 02 18:22 |
| MinceR | (which of course includes competing filesystems) | Jan 02 18:23 |
| matlock | Why not be convenient for the vast majority of users out of the box? | Jan 02 18:23 |
| danielp3344 | otherwise FAT seems to be the only FS understood by everyone | Jan 02 18:23 |
| matlock | psydroid Also additional design and packaging costs. | Jan 02 18:23 |
| MinceR | fun fact: western digital did (and probably still does) sell HDDs formatted with whatever crap macos uses | Jan 02 18:23 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: how long does it take to format a drive? 10 seconds? | Jan 02 18:23 |
| MinceR | apparently they can afford that oh so expensive manufacturing step | Jan 02 18:23 |
| danielp3344 | even if I bought a drive that was formatted with FAT I'd still make it EXT4 before using it as a rootfs | Jan 02 18:24 |
| matlock | danielp3344 Of course formatting is no problem for us here. I am thinking about my parents though. | Jan 02 18:24 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/bOdTZPA.mp4 | Jan 02 18:25 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: as mentioned, windows can format a disk pretty easily | Jan 02 18:25 |
| danielp3344 | (not that I care about windows :P ) | Jan 02 18:25 |
| MinceR | oh, but clicking "yes" on a dialog box that comes up automatically is too difficult for them | Jan 02 18:25 |
| danielp3344 | also windows would probably prefer NTFS | Jan 02 18:25 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: then they shouldn't be using a computer | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | as opposed to removing a Restricted Boot signing key somewhere in UEFI setup | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | because _that_ is easy! | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | fucking microshit apologists and their bullshit "arguments" | Jan 02 18:26 |
| matlock | My parents are not going to be dual-booting an obscure Linux distro without UEFI support. | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | you know what, i have an idea for microsoft | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | put a FAT formatting utility into UEFI | Jan 02 18:26 |
| MinceR | require it for the winblows sticker | Jan 02 18:26 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: surely they can be convinced to learn a *little* bit about computers? | Jan 02 18:27 |
| MinceR | then they can sell unformatted HDDs and save a very expensive manufacturing step! | Jan 02 18:27 |
| danielp3344 | enough to manage their own drives? | Jan 02 18:27 |
| matlock | My parents don't really know what a drive is. They go to 'the Firefox' and 'the AOL' and check their news and e-mail. | Jan 02 18:28 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: then they don't need help | Jan 02 18:28 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: A Long Way Down, Dark Envoy, Godot Engine, Half-Life: Alyx, Fury Unleashed and devilutionX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132405 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9c2c98b0-64be-4201-bff2-55c2644dc253] | Jan 02 18:29 | |
| danielp3344 | I have yet to meet anyone far gone enough that they couldn't understand a hard drive | Jan 02 18:29 |
| MinceR | maybe you don't meet enough microsloth/ibm fanboys | Jan 02 18:29 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: oh I have | Jan 02 18:29 |
| psydroid | MinceR, I am afraid the Microsoft virus runs deep inside Linux companies and they have sent their minions to this channel to convert the last remaining true GNU/Linux believers to their brand of Microsoftism | Jan 02 18:29 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jan 02 18:30 |
| danielp3344 | I think that's perhaps a bit dramatic | Jan 02 18:30 |
| MinceR | they took over the Linux Foundation, they took over debian, they took over FSF and the GNU Project | Jan 02 18:30 |
| danielp3344 | The first one I get.... | Jan 02 18:31 |
| danielp3344 | are the last two references to RMS? | Jan 02 18:31 |
| MinceR | not only | Jan 02 18:31 |
| MinceR | i wish RMS was the only person loyal to rh/ibm at FSF/GNU | Jan 02 18:31 |
| matlock | MinceR It's not the formatting that is expensive, it would be separate packaging for 3+ items, renting expensive space on retailer shelves, additional returns from customer confusion, it would be an expense. An example would be drives for the Apple market that are twice as expensive, even from non-Apple retailers, than PC drives. | Jan 02 18:31 |
| MinceR | yeah, stickers are very expensive | Jan 02 18:32 |
| MinceR | which is why WD didn't have totally different product names and packagings for those HDDs | Jan 02 18:32 |
| MinceR | oh wait, they totally did | Jan 02 18:32 |
| danielp3344 | Just out of curiosity... | Jan 02 18:32 |
| danielp3344 | Is there an HDD maker that would actually listen to us? | Jan 02 18:33 |
| MinceR | unlikely | Jan 02 18:33 |
| MinceR | the majority of the money available on the IT market is in the hands of morons | Jan 02 18:33 |
| danielp3344 | Or are we just upset about what 'PC' means to a distressing % of the world | Jan 02 18:33 |
| MinceR | which is why crApple is doing well and the general purpose computer is going the way of the dodo | Jan 02 18:33 |
| matlock | Many people just want to be upset. | Jan 02 18:34 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Five-bay, open source NAS features RK3399, UPS, and 2.5GbE http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132406 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c3a20a74-b953-4e74-b8d5-edcb88a8be94] | Jan 02 18:34 | |
| MinceR | yeah, like the people with whom microsloth forced Linux to adopt a CoC of their choosing | Jan 02 18:34 |
| matlock | That is simply not supported by the available data. https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2019-10-10-gartner-says-worldwide-pc-shipments-grew-1point1-percent-in-third-quarter-of-2019 | Jan 02 18:34 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Grew 1.1% in Third Quarter of 2019 | Jan 02 18:35 | |
| -->MinceR_ (~mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #techrights | Jan 02 18:35 | |
| matlock | psydroid No one sent me here. I'm actually still off work for the holidays. I enjoy discussing these issues, even in my free time. | Jan 02 18:36 |
| schestowitz | lol gartner :-) | Jan 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | microsoft and gates fund them | Jan 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | I can imagine how they define computer | Jan 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | whatever microsoft wants | Jan 02 18:37 |
| MinceR_ | oh yeah, the totally "independent" Gangster Group says otherwise. maybe they even remembered to remove the microsoft copyright notices from their "independent" report this time? | Jan 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | and always anything to diminish linux and gnu impact http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gartner_Group | Jan 02 18:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gartner Group - Techrights | Jan 02 18:37 | |
| schestowitz | they rarely menion the L word, never GNU | Jan 02 18:37 |
| MinceR_ | if microsloth says it with their mouth with the "microsoft" label on it, that's obviously propaganda, but if it comes from the mouth with "gartner" on it, then it's gospel | Jan 02 18:38 |
| MinceR_ | isn't it? | Jan 02 18:38 |
| schestowitz | they also bully reporters | Jan 02 18:38 |
| MinceR_ | they're the same fucking mafia matlock works for | Jan 02 18:38 |
| schestowitz | if they mention the name Gartner in a way Gartner dislikes | Jan 02 18:38 |
| schestowitz | gartner 'analysts' should be out in the streets selling butttplugs from a plastic cup | Jan 02 18:38 |
| MinceR_ | that would be unsanitary | Jan 02 18:39 |
| MinceR_ | can you expect these hacks to do anything properly? | Jan 02 18:39 |
| <--MinceR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Jan 02 18:39 | |
| schestowitz | companies that are large pay them | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | they pretend it's for 'consulting' | Jan 02 18:39 |
| ---MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Jan 02 18:39 | |
| schestowitz | but it's a bruve | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | bribe | Jan 02 18:39 |
| ---ChanServ gives channel operator status to MinceR | Jan 02 18:39 | |
| schestowitz | to get the 'analysts' to say what they want them to say | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | it's their business model | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | the media called that the "Gartner tax" | Jan 02 18:39 |
| matlock | You can't dispute the PC shipment data, just ad hominem attacks on Gartner. I'm sure if I cited IDC or PC companies own quarterly reports you'd find excuses to dismiss those too. | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | If you don't pay Gartner, they will attack you | Jan 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | extortion business model | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | IDC is also bribed | Jan 02 18:40 |
| matlock | Yup. There it is. | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | It's owned by IDG | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | now a chinese company | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | IDC is how they raise bribe money | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | from LF, Microsoft etc. | Jan 02 18:40 |
| <--a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has left #techrights | Jan 02 18:40 | |
| psydroid | matlock, I hope you are enjoying your holidays and the discussions, even when you go back to work for Microsoft money | Jan 02 18:40 |
| MinceR | matlock: can you provide actual data from a credible source? | Jan 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gartner_Group | Jan 02 18:40 |
| MinceR | or only microsloth mouthpieces? | Jan 02 18:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gartner Group - Techrights | Jan 02 18:40 | |
| schestowitz | it's a very corrupt industry http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/IDC | Jan 02 18:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IDC - Techrights | Jan 02 18:40 | |
| schestowitz | they also control many news sites http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/IDG | Jan 02 18:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IDG - Techrights | Jan 02 18:41 | |
| schestowitz | so if you bribe them, you will get more and better coverage ("ads" as "articles") http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/IDG | Jan 02 18:41 |
| schestowitz | very dodgy and corrupt these people.... | Jan 02 18:41 |
| schestowitz | they even admit so sometimes | Jan 02 18:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The hotel said I was paid up through March and now it's twlling them my check out is today. | Jan 02 18:41 |
| schestowitz | usually leaks, off the record | Jan 02 18:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Waiting for the manager to sort this out. | Jan 02 18:41 |
| schestowitz | IDC counts "REVENUE" | Jan 02 18:41 |
| matlock | psydroid I don't work for Microsoft. | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | for server | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | so overpriced WIndows looks bigger than it actually is | Jan 02 18:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I paid up through the 28th and then the tax rollback brought me to March. | Jan 02 18:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Pissed | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | whiteboxes aren't counted | Jan 02 18:42 |
| MinceR | matlock: how can we tell you're not lying _this_ time? | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | matlock: yet | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Mark took the company into his hands | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | so it's easier to take over, even hostile takeover | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | maybe to Amazon, maybe HP, maybe Microsoft | Jan 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | but sooner or later the giants seem to be taking over everything, with hedge funds in Wall Street looking for imperialistic gains | Jan 02 18:43 |
| matlock | MinceR No source I find will ever be 'credible' enough for you though. They will all be 'corrupt' or 'mafia' because they don't say what you want them to say. | Jan 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | full spectrum dominance and all | Jan 02 18:43 |
| MinceR | matlock: no credible source will spread such lies | Jan 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Canonical is Isle of Man (tax evasion), actually London | Jan 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Mark already evades tax in South Africa | Jan 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | and he was found guilty, I think he had to pay to settle it | Jan 02 18:43 |
| MinceR | he could probably easily afford it | Jan 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | matlock: gartner are corrupt, we published leaks | Jan 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | they're Microsoft lobbyistys | Jan 02 18:44 |
| matlock | MinceR What lies are you talking about? | Jan 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | they misuse the label 'analysts' | Jan 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | they also derailed gnu/linux at munich | Jan 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | layer helped by HP, Accenture etc. | Jan 02 18:44 |
| MinceR | matlock: like the TCO bullshit gartner published as "independent" "analysts" but forgot to remove the microsoft copyrights on | Jan 02 18:44 |
| MinceR | matlock: of course it's not surprising that "mr. i use linux but" doesn't know about microsloth's attacks against Linux | Jan 02 18:45 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microphone audio capture arrives in Linux on Chromebooks. Here's how to use it http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132407 [https://pleroma.site/objects/db103131-c688-4442-a16a-425dc8574288] | Jan 02 18:45 | |
| MinceR | mr. "Linux activity on Microsoft Surface devices is thriving" | Jan 02 18:45 |
| matlock | Go check it out. ##linux-surface. | Jan 02 18:46 |
| psydroid | thriving as in completely dead? | Jan 02 18:46 |
| MinceR | thriving as in switching from WSL to WSL2 | Jan 02 18:46 |
| MinceR | occasionally | Jan 02 18:46 |
| schestowitz | it's a microsoft channel | Jan 02 18:47 |
| MinceR | but spending most of the time in Idiot Exploiter, spreading microsloth marketing lies on IRC with a web client | Jan 02 18:47 |
| schestowitz | I think Canonical might already be doing the Microsoft paperwork GitHub did... | Jan 02 18:47 |
| matlock | I am using the new Chromium-based Edge actually. I don't know what my choice of IRC client has to do with anything but ok. | Jan 02 18:48 |
| MinceR | yeah, i don't think they also want to miss out on canonical after missing out on red hat | Jan 02 18:48 |
| schestowitz | "We're MS!" Mark Shuttleworth (MS): "Me too!!;' | Jan 02 18:48 |
| MinceR | matlock: of course you are, what else would a microsloth munchkin use? | Jan 02 18:48 |
| matlock | MinceR I really like it. Can't wait to help bring Edge to my Linux desktop devices. | Jan 02 18:49 |
| MinceR | but yeah, it's totally not Idiot Exploiter now, they changed not only the name and the logo, but even the engine | Jan 02 18:49 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 02 18:49 |
| MinceR | and the mask comes off | Jan 02 18:49 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Plasma Plans New Look and New App Menu for 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132408 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3c1e49cd-e597-4e34-8200-8243f1e60dbc] | Jan 02 18:49 | |
| MinceR | quick, sell us some Office | Jan 02 18:49 |
| matlock | MinceR You mean https://snapcraft.io/unofficial-webapp-office ? | Jan 02 18:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-snapcraft.io | Install unofficial-webapp-office for Linux using the Snap Store | Snapcraft | Jan 02 18:49 | |
| MinceR | i'm sure you'd prefer if we used it on Backdoors10 | Jan 02 18:50 |
| schestowitz | [18:49] <MinceR> and the mask comes off | Jan 02 18:50 |
| schestowitz | not a moment too soon | Jan 02 18:50 |
| schestowitz | I won't spend more time debating this here... I have better things to attend to at tuxmachines... | Jan 02 18:50 |
| MinceR | after all, part of the Outlook "webapp" deliberately only works on Backdoors | Jan 02 18:50 |
| matlock | What mask was I wearing? | Jan 02 18:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | > but yeah, it's totally not Idiot Exploiter now, they changed not only the name and the logo, but even the engine | Jan 02 18:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Internet Exploder comes to Linux. | Jan 02 18:50 |
| MinceR | the "totally not a microshit salesperson" one | Jan 02 18:51 |
| matlock | Edge is free. | Jan 02 18:51 |
| *psydroid is reminded once again why it's a good thing he got rid of Ubuntu on all architectures, now that Debian also works better on aarch64 | Jan 02 18:51 | |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: if they were smarter than they usually are, they would have changed all 3 at the same time | Jan 02 18:51 |
| psydroid | free as in lock-in | Jan 02 18:51 |
| MinceR | matlock: nothing that comes from the robber barons of redmond is ever free | Jan 02 18:51 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We took the resource glutton Chromium and put Telemetry in it and there you go. | Jan 02 18:51 |
| MinceR | translator's note: "telemetry" means "spyware" | Jan 02 18:51 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Customer Experience Improvement Program | Jan 02 18:52 |
| matlock | psydroid What lock in? You can chose what browser you use. | Jan 02 18:52 |
| MinceR | psydroid: unfortunately deadian is controlled by the same people as ubuntu | Jan 02 18:52 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We are improving your experience. Pray we improve it no further. | Jan 02 18:52 |
| MinceR | you can choose... for now. | Jan 02 18:52 |
| MinceR | microsuck graciously lets you choose for now | Jan 02 18:52 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They got rid of the customer part because it implies a willingness to walk in and buy Windows. | Jan 02 18:52 |
| MinceR | and if you're stupid enough to choose something from them, soon you'll find that you don't let you choose anymore. | Jan 02 18:52 |
| DaemonFC[m] | As if there were choices. | Jan 02 18:53 |
| psydroid | MinceR, I'm planning a long-term move to Redox, Helenos, Illumos/Unleashed and maybe some BSD thrown into the mix | Jan 02 18:53 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The other OS directed at consumers is an overpriced Unix clone that had its brains sucked out. | Jan 02 18:53 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So in that context, Windows is the better of the two, but it's like the Democrats compared to the Republicans. | Jan 02 18:54 |
| MinceR | i find "unix clone" a bit charitable for macos | Jan 02 18:54 |
| matlock | The BDFL of Redox is employed by System76, which ships an Ubuntu derivative, might still be tainted. Better go with 9front. | Jan 02 18:54 |
| psydroid | nope | Jan 02 18:54 |
| matlock | You know what my favorite UNIX is? Xenix. | Jan 02 18:55 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Redox is kind of ridiculous. | Jan 02 18:55 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 02 18:55 |
| MinceR | redox-culous | Jan 02 18:55 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It took 25 years to get Linux where it is now. | Jan 02 18:55 |
| psydroid | there is no way I am going to listen to a Microsoft shill's "advice" | Jan 02 18:55 |
| matlock | Still waiting to hear what I was hiding with my mask. | Jan 02 18:56 |
| MinceR | maybe you should look around in your buffer, then | Jan 02 18:56 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introducing the 2020 XPS 13 Developer Edition (Ubuntu 18.04 LTS reloaded) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132409 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6b66cbb6-a4d8-4364-87f7-f453d515eda4] | Jan 02 18:56 | |
| matlock | That I was a Microsoft salesperson? I have already said I don't work for Microsoft. | Jan 02 18:57 |
| psydroid | a mask is usually worn to hide an extremely ugly face | Jan 02 18:57 |
| MinceR | microshit people say all sorts of shit | Jan 02 18:57 |
| MinceR | little of it true | Jan 02 18:57 |
| matlock | I think I am at least an 7. | Jan 02 18:57 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/AstroTurfing | Jan 02 18:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | AstroTurfing - Techrights | Jan 02 18:57 | |
| MinceR | it's nice to know that microsuck still considers TR important enough to send some of their goons here from time to time | Jan 02 18:58 |
| matlock | I wasn't sent by anyone, as I previously explained. I was written about, it said more was said in the IRC, so I joined the IRC with my web-based client. | Jan 02 18:59 |
| MinceR | interesting | Jan 02 19:00 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Cozy – Modern GTK+ 3 Audio Book Player for Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132410 [https://pleroma.site/objects/26d59dbd-09f8-4563-b81c-a844fa3c98ad] | Jan 02 19:01 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132411 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f157527b-fa6e-48ca-af45-6d91c87c9acd] | Jan 02 19:01 | |
| psydroid | one of the Microsoft moles at Canonical? | Jan 02 19:02 |
| matlock | Yes, I believe I have been called that. Hilarious. I even thought of changing my profile pic to a mole with an old Windows logo on his chest. | Jan 02 19:03 |
| MinceR | the new (spilled wastebasket) logo would be more appropriate for an "edge" hipster | Jan 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Canonical hires Microsoft shills | Jan 02 19:04 |
| psydroid | that would be more fitting indeed, so that was good judgment on your side | Jan 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | I know some names | Jan 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | and some stalk me in Twitter | Jan 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | interjecting pro-Microsoft noise | Jan 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | they pretend to be pro-Linux | Jan 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | but lack history in it | Jan 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | not a new thing btw | Jan 02 19:06 |
| schestowitz | a decade ago they put Microsoft's Rich Spencer in charge of Ubuntu desktop | Jan 02 19:06 |
| schestowitz | crazy company! | Jan 02 19:06 |
| schestowitz | no wonder their community lefgt | Jan 02 19:06 |
| schestowitz | jono bacon works for Microsoft now | Jan 02 19:06 |
| MinceR | was that at the unity times or when they particularly pushed mono? | Jan 02 19:07 |
| schestowitz | and mark dresses up like a Gitmo inmate | Jan 02 19:07 |
| matlock | When anyone mentions Ubuntu and WSL on Twitter it comes up on my TweetDeck and sometimes I have to respond, like when you called me a mole when my job is very public. I was on Linux Unplugged talking about it. Hardly a mole. | Jan 02 19:07 |
| MinceR | > have to respond | Jan 02 19:07 |
| MinceR | is that your job then? | Jan 02 19:07 |
| schestowitz | https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/138087/linux-wayback-machine-linux-unplugged-333/ | Jan 02 19:07 |
| schestowitz | They're juiter media | Jan 02 19:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.jupiterbroadcasting.com | Linux Wayback Machine | LINUX Unplugged 333 | Jupiter Broadcasting | Jan 02 19:08 | |
| schestowitz | owned by linux acedemt | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | azure partners | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | very pro-Microsoft companuy | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | so being on that show means nothing | Jan 02 19:08 |
| matlock | Helping users who tweet about Ubuntu on WSL on social media? Yes, it's part of my job. Responding to criticism isn't, but I still have fun with it sometimes. | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | they also did a show with Barnes recently | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | yesterday they promoted Azure | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | as "free" course | Jan 02 19:08 |
| MinceR | lol @ "helping" | Jan 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | and they got bought by a company without Linux in the name a few weeks ago | Jan 02 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu on WSL is not pro gnu linux but an attack on gnu linux | Jan 02 19:09 |
| schestowitz | it's microsoft's way of taking over things | Jan 02 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Canonical loses loads of money | Jan 02 19:09 |
| schestowitz | so it became this desperate, begging the bully for a share | Jan 02 19:10 |
| matlock | MinceR Yes, here's a recent example https://twitter.com/unixterminal/status/1211676879255674881 | Jan 02 19:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@unixterminal: @deveet93 Open command prompt. wsl --user root passwd <your user> And then enter your new preferred password. Or de… https://t.co/UWOkHuM1f4 | Jan 02 19:10 | |
| rianne | Ok, pass on the pop corn please :-) | Jan 02 19:10 |
| MinceR | interesting choice of username for a microsoft shill | Jan 02 19:11 |
| matlock | So companies without Linux in the name aren't to be trusted either? Weird standards but ok. | Jan 02 19:11 |
| MinceR | no companies are to be trusted implicitly | Jan 02 19:12 |
| MinceR | red hat is a pretty good example | Jan 02 19:12 |
| matlock | In addition to my WSL work I am a bit of a UNIX anthropologist, see https://github.com/sirredbeard/Awesome-UNIX | Jan 02 19:12 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - sirredbeard/Awesome-UNIX: All the UNIX and UNIX-Like: Linux, BSD, macOS, Illumos, 9front, and more. | Jan 02 19:12 | |
| matlock | That is where my username comes from. | Jan 02 19:12 |
| MinceR | amusing | Jan 02 19:12 |
| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/12/883089dcf08e6ac1.jpg | Jan 02 19:13 |
| schestowitz | oh wait.... | Jan 02 19:13 |
| schestowitz | matlock IS Barnes!! | Jan 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | unmasked | Jan 02 19:14 |
| MinceR | jinkies! | Jan 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | why the pseudonym, Hayden? | Jan 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | lol!!!! | Jan 02 19:14 |
| matlock | Again, what mask? | Jan 02 19:14 |
| rianne | Now your unmasking your face slowly and cleary. | Jan 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | and you use a pseudonum | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | for shame | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | UNIX anthropologist, | Jan 02 19:15 |
| matlock | I have a username but my name is set to Hayden. I have said I worked at Canonical. I am the only Hayden there. None of this was a secret. | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | lol | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | when? | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | When you work for law firms in Georgia | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | ? | Jan 02 19:15 |
| schestowitz | schizo much? | Jan 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | mat lock? | Jan 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | What does that even mean? | Jan 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Your name is Hayden | Jan 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | hayden barnes | Jan 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | that's like me going in irc by the name chris jones | Jan 02 19:17 |
| matlock | Matlock is a popular TV lawyer, it's been my username on Freenode for years. My name, which is visible, is set to Hayden. I don't use my full name on IRC but that's hardly a pseudonym. | Jan 02 19:17 |
| MinceR | some matlock associated with dumbFuckBook was mentioned in one of the link posts on TR | Jan 02 19:18 |
| *schestowitz superman11 | Jan 02 19:18 | |
| matlock | If your username was chrisjones but your IRC name was set to Roy that wouldn't be a pseudonym. I would figure chris jones was a character or something. | Jan 02 19:18 |
| ---schestowitz is now known as superman11 | Jan 02 19:18 | |
| superman11 | superman is a famous movie char | Jan 02 19:18 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 02 19:18 |
| ---superman11 is now known as LoisLaneSheHer | Jan 02 19:19 | |
| psydroid | so the interest in ARM IoT devices is to offer the same functionality as Windows IoT (which I am supposed to be able to run on my Orange Pi Win Plus) | Jan 02 19:20 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/646615.png | Jan 02 19:20 |
| MinceR | Backdoors (id)IoT has functionality? | Jan 02 19:20 |
| matlock | No, Ubuntu Core. | Jan 02 19:20 |
| psydroid | like Windows Core OS? | Jan 02 19:21 |
| matlock | I have no doubt that there is going to be TR article now about how after an 'investigation' it was discovered that I was masquerading on here, even though I have been completely candid about who I am, with my real first name, and who I work for. \ | Jan 02 19:21 |
| psydroid | <MinceR "Backdoors (id)IoT has functional"> I have no idea, I don't let malware close to my systems | Jan 02 19:21 |
| matlock | No, https://ubuntu.com/core That is why I had to snap up the tools. | Jan 02 19:22 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Ubuntu Core | Ubuntu | Jan 02 19:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Ubuntu & Canonical, BSD Now, Self-Hosted http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132412 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9f146d83-84a4-406f-b3a8-eaa79b95e180] | Jan 02 19:22 | |
| matlock | You should come to the conference I am organizing. We have had to go to a waitlist because of so many attendees but if someone from the TechRights community wants to come, I will get them a pass. https://www.wslconf.dev/ | Jan 02 19:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.wslconf.dev | WSLconf | Jan 02 19:24 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jonathan Dowland: Linux Desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132413 [https://pleroma.site/objects/13f8adaf-f284-44f2-ad9c-50f972602a37] | Jan 02 19:25 | |
| psydroid | I'm not in the position to travel anywhere, I am not even sure I can make it to FOSDEM next month | Jan 02 19:26 |
| matlock | I am working on a live stream option. You can register under a live stream only option which is still open. | Jan 02 19:27 |
| <--Nuve has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)) | Jan 02 19:29 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Guile 2.9.8 Released [beta] http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132414 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c2298216-089e-41d3-b023-524837a363b2] | Jan 02 19:30 | |
| ---LoisLaneSheHer is now known as schestowitz | Jan 02 19:39 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I have to deal with everyone on the planet ripping me off or stupidly making things worse for no reason. | Jan 02 19:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | No wonder my hair is falling out. | Jan 02 19:45 |
| -->Nuve (~Nuve@unaffiliated/nuve) has joined #techrights | Jan 02 19:46 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: John again? | Jan 02 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Mandy? | Jan 02 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Jondy? | Jan 02 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Dijon? | Jan 02 19:47 |
| MinceR | lol @ WSLconf | Jan 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | it's a prank | Jan 02 19:48 |
| matlock | I would sincerely welcome members of the Tech Rights community at WSLConf to see what we are up to. I am open to criticism, which is why I gladly engage with some of our harshest critics. Despite the juvenile name calling. | Jan 02 19:51 |
| MinceR | we already know what you are up to | Jan 02 19:53 |
| MinceR | especially with a name like that | Jan 02 19:53 |
| MinceR | it's yet another EEE attempt against GNU/Linux on microshit's part | Jan 02 19:53 |
| matlock | You won't know what I am up to if you don't come see. Also what does my name have to do with anything? | Jan 02 19:54 |
| MinceR | name being "WSLconf" | Jan 02 19:57 |
| matlock | What about the name is no menacing? | Jan 02 19:57 |
| MinceR | it is not menacing | Jan 02 19:58 |
| MinceR | it makes it clear that it's about WSL | Jan 02 19:58 |
| MinceR | which is yet another EEE attempt against GNU/Linux on microshit's part | Jan 02 19:58 |
| MinceR | as i've said already | Jan 02 19:58 |
| matlock | How would you know that? Have you ever used WSL? | Jan 02 19:59 |
| MinceR | thankfully i was never forced to attempt to make it work | Jan 02 19:59 |
| MinceR | but it's not necessary | Jan 02 19:59 |
| MinceR | what it is is pretty public | Jan 02 19:59 |
| MinceR | and knowing microsloth's history, that makes the deal pretty obvious | Jan 02 20:00 |
| matlock | How would that work? | Jan 02 20:01 |
| MinceR | first they'd get people to develop for */Linux on Backdoors using WSL and/or deploy programs written for */Linux on Backdoors using WSL, then add new "features" to WSL and get people to use them so they're stuck with having to develop/run them on Backdoors | Jan 02 20:05 |
| MinceR | and then they'd hope Linux would die out because no (or not enough) programs are available for it | Jan 02 20:07 |
| matlock | What new features has Microsoft added to WSL that would prevent portability? | Jan 02 20:08 |
| schestowitz | lots | Jan 02 20:09 |
| matlock | Which ones? | Jan 02 20:10 |
| <--fujisan has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | Jan 02 20:11 | |
| <--mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) | Jan 02 20:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Ruby 2.7 Released, TensorFlow in JavaScript, Java, End of Python 2.7 and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132415 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b43b9531-676f-4068-981b-a5d3538ebfa2] | Jan 02 20:15 | |
| XRevan86 | > Edge is free. | Jan 02 20:27 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: You mean, gratis? | Jan 02 20:27 |
| XRevan86 | Because last I checked it's not free software. | Jan 02 20:27 |
| psydroid | free as a puppy | Jan 02 20:27 |
| MinceR | like a white elephant | Jan 02 20:28 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132416 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fd398819-fdfc-44fc-80f7-bfdf8648b047] | Jan 02 20:29 | |
| matlock | Xrevan86 Well, it's MIT (https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdge/blob/master/LICENSE.txt), so it's not GPL, but you can get the whole source and build yourself. | Jan 02 20:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-MSEdge/LICENSE.txt at master · MicrosoftEdge/MSEdge · GitHub | Jan 02 20:30 | |
| MinceR | and you can get very surprised when they use your dependence on Totally Not IE™ against you | Jan 02 20:31 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat and Fedora Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132417 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4db02e11-08c1-4df0-b4be-8aa4ed5fe058] | Jan 02 20:33 | |
| psydroid | I never used IE, I went from Netscape Navigator to Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox even when I still used Windows | Jan 02 20:33 |
| MinceR | they made me use Idiot Exploiter | Jan 02 20:34 |
| MinceR | i don't miss it | Jan 02 20:34 |
| matlock | I rarely used IE, but I remember using Navigator and Opera way back when. I think Sun even had a Java-based browser I used too. My first browser of course as Lynx. | Jan 02 20:35 |
| psydroid | Hotjava it was called, but I never used that one, as I thought it was just some kind demo included with the JDK | Jan 02 20:37 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Hardware With Linux: Helios64 SDMC DV8919 and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132419 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1732a6e6-3fb6-4735-be1b-fb33df5a6907] | Jan 02 20:38 | |
| matlock | I think it came with Java OS too. | Jan 02 20:38 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132418 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6b857557-cf97-45d2-b32b-845e053f4f51] | Jan 02 20:39 | |
| XRevan86 | matlock: Is this a joke? | Jan 02 20:40 |
| matlock | XRevan86 What? | Jan 02 20:40 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: ok, Edge is free, where are the fsckken sources? | Jan 02 20:41 |
| XRevan86 | Is the README MIT-licensed? | Jan 02 20:41 |
| XRevan86 | Is the README.md the actual Microsoft Edge, and everything else are mere proprietary extensions to it? | Jan 02 20:43 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 02 20:46 |
| matlock | If you click the link at the top of that page to the main site, https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/, and go there you will see a link to download the source, https://thirdpartysource.microsoft.com/ | Jan 02 20:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.microsoftedgeinsider.com | Microsoft Edge Insider | Jan 02 20:46 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thirdpartysource.microsoft.com | Third Party Disclosures | Jan 02 20:46 | |
| XRevan86 | > thirdpartysource | Jan 02 20:46 |
| XRevan86 | > thirdparty | Jan 02 20:47 |
| MinceR | and the LICENSE.txt will apply to something hosted outside that repository? | Jan 02 20:47 |
| XRevan86 | Oh hey, FreeBSD | Jan 02 20:47 |
| MinceR | i really wonder how gullible i look now | Jan 02 20:47 |
| matlock | This is all made clear here: https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdge | Jan 02 20:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - MicrosoftEdge/MSEdge: Microsoft Edge | Jan 02 20:47 | |
| MinceR | those assholes never give up | Jan 02 20:48 |
| matlock | There are actually several different free/open licenses involved in Chrome, but the bulk of the code is MIT. | Jan 02 20:48 |
| MinceR | the bulk of the code being README.md, of course | Jan 02 20:48 |
| matlock | So we are now mad about the domain name where the source is hosted and where the license file is hosted? | Jan 02 20:49 |
| XRevan86 | Based on free software == free software | Jan 02 20:49 |
| XRevan86 | Great free software there, Microsoft. | Jan 02 20:49 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/8ffAmr7.jpg | Jan 02 20:49 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: No, I'm concerned that you're pointing to Chromium sources as Microsoft Edge sources. | Jan 02 20:50 |
| matlock | Yes, it is based on Chromium, which is generally accepted free software. | Jan 02 20:50 |
| XRevan86 | I don't care if it's based on DOSBox | Jan 02 20:50 |
| MinceR | maybe that's how it works | Jan 02 20:50 |
| MinceR | you build chromium and run it and pretend it's edge | Jan 02 20:51 |
| XRevan86 | Humans and chimps share 98.8% of DNA | Jan 02 20:52 |
| XRevan86 | "I asked for a human worker" | Jan 02 20:52 |
| matlock | When you asked I linked you to the sources, an explainer about the project, and the license on Microsoft's GitHub repository. I am sorry this upset you so much. | Jan 02 20:52 |
| <--titanbiscuit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Jan 02 20:53 | |
| XRevan86 | matlock: And then I said that Chromium sources do not count. | Jan 02 20:54 |
| -->titanbiscuit (~tbisk@38.132.112.106) has joined #techrights | Jan 02 20:54 | |
| XRevan86 | If one makes a fork of non-copyleft free software, it isn't suddenly free software itself | Jan 02 20:55 |
| matlock | I didn't point you to Chromium sources. Those are at https://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/get-the-code. | Jan 02 20:55 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.chromium.org | Get the Code: Checkout, Build, & Run Chromium - The Chromium Projects | Jan 02 20:55 | |
| matlock | Did you know that building Chromium for 32-bit still requires 64-bit because you have to have more than 4GB of RAM to build Chromium? | Jan 02 20:56 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: I do. | Jan 02 20:56 |
| matlock | I think that's funny. | Jan 02 20:57 |
| *XRevan86 is trying to find any download link on 3rdpartysource.microsoft.com | Jan 02 20:58 | |
| XRevan86 | > Microsoft makes certain open source code available at https://3rdpartysource.microsoft.com, or you may send a check or money order for US $5.00, including the product name, the opens source component name, architecture, and version number | Jan 02 20:58 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-3rdpartysource.microsoft.com | Third Party Disclosures | Jan 02 20:58 | |
| matlock | Put 'edge' in the filter on the top left, then click the 'last' button on the bottom right, scroll down, those are the most recent pre-release sources for Edge. | Jan 02 20:59 |
| matlock | There are versions for x86, x64, and arm64, pick the one for the version and platform you want and click download. | Jan 02 21:00 |
| matlock | It's pretty cool they would send you a copy of the source on physical media if you can't download it, like on a limited connection. I didn't know about that. Not a lot of companies do that. | Jan 02 21:02 |
| XRevan86 | Would've been so cool if they shared a VCS instead | Jan 02 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | in 40 minutes I'll download sources for "Windows x64", even though all I want is browse git | Jan 02 21:03 |
| matlock | I agree that would be better. I am not a big fan of the code-dump approach. Apple does that with it's OS sources. | Jan 02 21:04 |
| XRevan86 | Everyone who doesn't want any contributions does that | Jan 02 21:04 |
| matlock | That's why I linked you to the GitHub-hosted explainer and license first, but you instead you mocked me for that. | Jan 02 21:06 |
| MinceR | "our fork of chromium needs an explainer" | Jan 02 21:07 |
| MinceR | "is edge free?" "wait, i can explain!" | Jan 02 21:07 |
| matlock | It gives the history, thinking, and mission of the project. Most projects have an 'About' page, but I know Microsoft did it so you can't be rational about it. | Jan 02 21:08 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: I've skimmed through it | Jan 02 21:09 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: It may be hard to believe, but I don't care about their Mission | Jan 02 21:09 |
| XRevan86 | I just want sources… in a palatable form | Jan 02 21:10 |
| XRevan86 | Different sources for different OS' and architectures is pretty suspicious. | Jan 02 21:12 |
| matlock | It's not ideal. I wonder if it has something to do with all the Google stuff that spied on users they had to rip out and re-build. | Jan 02 21:20 |
| matlock | But this is actually really good feedback. I am going to let my contact on the Edge team know that the current sources is a sub-optimal process and see what they say. | Jan 02 21:23 |
| XRevan86 | "we hadn't notice" | Jan 02 21:24 |
| MinceR | would microshit ever tell what their actual intention is with any particular project? | Jan 02 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | d | Jan 02 21:24 |
| MinceR | 02 221221 < XRevan86> Different sources for different OS' and architectures is pretty suspicious. | Jan 02 21:24 |
| MinceR | maybe nobody told them about #if and #ifdef | Jan 02 21:24 |
| matlock | MinceR Yes. Most people in the world are acting in good faith, even the ones doing things we don't like. | Jan 02 21:26 |
| MinceR | i'm not so sure about that | Jan 02 21:26 |
| MinceR | but it's pretty well documented that microsloth management rarely if ever acts in good faith | Jan 02 21:26 |
| MinceR | their internal documents (e.g. Halloween Documents or what came up in the m$ vs Comes case) are quite telling | Jan 02 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: But they've reformed! | Jan 02 21:27 |
| MinceR | sure | Jan 02 21:27 |
| MinceR | they keep saying that | Jan 02 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | They're literally saints | Jan 02 21:27 |
| MinceR | and they keep doing the old shit they've always done | Jan 02 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | I don't believe in god or saints, except for Microsoft management | Jan 02 21:28 |
| MinceR | :D | Jan 02 21:28 |
| MinceR | they haven't even stopped their patent abuses against companies selling Linux devices | Jan 02 21:28 |
| MinceR | despite the whole "Microsoft <3 Linux" bullshit campaign | Jan 02 21:28 |
| MinceR | but for most people it's apparently unnecessary | Jan 02 21:28 |
| MinceR | throwing a bit of money around on ad campaigns is all it takes to convince most people of anything | Jan 02 21:29 |
| matlock | They cross-licensed their patents with the OIN, which I know you will automatically discount because it's connected to Red Hat, but in the real world that's a big deal. | Jan 02 21:29 |
| MinceR | you don't even know what the real world is | Jan 02 21:29 |
| MinceR | you read microshit puff pieces in microshit media outlets and believe it's the real world | Jan 02 21:30 |
| matlock | I read critical news outlets. I am in an IRC channel right now with people who hate me. | Jan 02 21:31 |
| MinceR | and mentally block all of it, apparently | Jan 02 21:33 |
| -->mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights | Jan 02 21:33 | |
| matlock | No, but it is hard to take people credibly when they name call me and make up conspiracy theories about me. | Jan 02 21:33 |
| matlock | But hey, I use a web-based IRC client, so, you know. | Jan 02 21:35 |
| XRevan86 | https://matrix.org/blog/2020/01/02/on-privacy-versus-freedom/ | Jan 02 21:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-On Privacy versus Freedom | Matrix.org | Jan 02 21:38 | |
| MinceR | i didn't name-call you amidst the beginning of the propaganda you spewed | Jan 02 21:40 |
| matlock | MinceR You have called me an asshole, a shill, hipster, a liar, a microsloth mouthpiece, said I worked for the mafia, a fanboy | Jan 02 21:44 |
| matlock | Roy called me a "schizo" for some reason so I guess name calling is just normalized here. Someone yesterday mocked my username in a thinly veiled attempt to mock me. It is clear there is a lot of toxicity here and outright hostility to dissenting viewpoints. | Jan 02 21:49 |
| MinceR | i probably did, _after_ i got tired of the propaganda you spewed | Jan 02 21:52 |
| Hail_Spacecake | anyone can accuse their political enemy's arguments of being propaganda | Jan 02 21:58 |
| Hail_Spacecake | claiming something is propaganda means nothing | Jan 02 21:58 |
| Hail_Spacecake | other than that you dislike it | Jan 02 21:58 |
| XRevan86 | Hail_Spacecake: This is Trotskyist propaganda! | Jan 02 21:58 |
| matlock | So you engaged in voluntary discussion with me, didn't like what I was saying, and instead of deciding to end the conversation or mute me, you decided just to resort to name-calling. Funny because you were the one lamenting SJWs and crybullies yesterday. | Jan 02 21:58 |
| pav5088 | Juvenile? It's pragmatism - Linus is famous for that kind of thing. It ends the conversation. Patience isn't a virtue when there are better things to spend brain cycles on. | Jan 02 21:59 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: what is WSL? | Jan 02 21:59 |
| XRevan86 | Hail_Spacecake: Windows Subsystem for Linux | Jan 02 21:59 |
| XRevan86 | Hail_Spacecake: Bundled Linux inside Windows | Jan 02 21:59 |
| Hail_Spacecake | ah | Jan 02 22:00 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I don't personally care about it | Jan 02 22:00 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I only use windows for non-linux games | Jan 02 22:00 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I guess I care about instrumentally if it somehow makes it easier for game developers to make games that run on linux | Jan 02 22:00 |
| matlock | The Frostbrite Engine, made by DICE, is made in part with WSL. | Jan 02 22:01 |
| XRevan86 | Hail_Spacecake: WSL is not focused on the graphical/visual part at all. | Jan 02 22:01 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I do think that's a lot of the effective challenge in porting games to linux | Jan 02 22:02 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but I'm nto a gamedev myself | Jan 02 22:02 |
| matlock | WSL isn't good for games but can be useful for game development. Using WSL DICE was able to port the server-side of the Frostbite engine to Linux. | Jan 02 22:02 |
| XRevan86 | > the server-side | Jan 02 22:02 |
| XRevan86 | That makes sense. | Jan 02 22:02 |
| Hail_Spacecake | anyway from a free software perspective, most pc games are not free | Jan 02 22:03 |
| Hail_Spacecake | and are not really amenable to being cloned | Jan 02 22:03 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but I'm not a hardcore stalmanite | Jan 02 22:03 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I'm willing to accept non-free games | Jan 02 22:03 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I care more about building abstractions that allow me to guarantee that a closed-source game provably cannot do anything malicious on the system I run it on | Jan 02 22:04 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: do you work for microsoft? | Jan 02 22:04 |
| matlock | It makes perfect sense XRevan86. People are running Windows on gaming PCs and Xbox and connecting to Linux servers to run it all. | Jan 02 22:04 |
| matlock | Hail_Spacecake I do not work for Microsoft, I work for Canonical on WSL and Hyper-V related projects. | Jan 02 22:04 |
| MinceR | ah, so not wasting my time trying to convince a microshit cultist of the truth is being an SJW | Jan 02 22:04 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: I know, just the other day when discussing WSL I said almost exactly that | Jan 02 22:05 |
| MinceR | interesting | Jan 02 22:05 |
| Hail_Spacecake | oh no you said you don't | Jan 02 22:05 |
| Hail_Spacecake | there's a lot of scrollback | Jan 02 22:05 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I'm trying to figure out what the point of contention here is | Jan 02 22:05 |
| MinceR | you're trying, but you've already made your judgement | Jan 02 22:05 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: are you in south africa? | Jan 02 22:05 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I don't know where all of canonical's people work | Jan 02 22:06 |
| MinceR | they work? | Jan 02 22:06 |
| matlock | Hail_Spacecake No, I am in the US. Canonical is 90% remote, employees work all over the world. We come together in various places throughout the year to plan and do sprints. | Jan 02 22:06 |
| Hail_Spacecake | anyway I don't like to use windows for the standard software freedom reasons + it spies on you | Jan 02 22:07 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but I do accept it to play specific video games | Jan 02 22:07 |
| <--Firee has quit (Quit: lolmoi) | Jan 02 22:07 | |
| Hail_Spacecake | I don't object to the windows subsystem for linux existing, but I wouldn't use it becuase like I said I only use windows for one specific thing | Jan 02 22:07 |
| Hail_Spacecake | which I'm not pleased about | Jan 02 22:07 |
| matlock | I think everyone should use what makes them happy. \ | Jan 02 22:08 |
| XRevan86 | weed? | Jan 02 22:08 |
| matlock | Absolutely. | Jan 02 22:08 |
| matlock | But Steam, Crossover, Wine Project, and that whole thing are making big gains for gaming on Linux, so maybe in time that will be an option for you Hail_Spacecake. | Jan 02 22:09 |
| MinceR | i guess trolling on IRC is now "work" | Jan 02 22:10 |
| matlock | I have explained that I am off work for the holidays, I am here on my accord, and I am not officially representing my employer or Microsoft here. | Jan 02 22:10 |
| XRevan86 | matlock: Would you consider Microsoft to play a part in GNU/Linux gaming? | Jan 02 22:11 |
| MinceR | yeah, you're astroturfing on your own accord | Jan 02 22:11 |
| MinceR | microsoft's part in gnu/linux gaming is pretty clear | Jan 02 22:11 |
| matlock | MinceR If you feel trolled by my generally very polite responses to your name-calling and hateful vitriol, I am sorry. | Jan 02 22:11 |
| MinceR | they've bought the Microsoft Linux Foundation | Jan 02 22:11 |
| MinceR | they'll eventually make their ownership of Linux official | Jan 02 22:11 |
| matlock | XRevan86 No, I don't. | Jan 02 22:11 |
| MinceR | matlock: did you dream anything else? | Jan 02 22:11 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: yeah most steam games I want to play do work on linux | Jan 02 22:12 |
| Hail_Spacecake | some don't | Jan 02 22:12 |
| Hail_Spacecake | anyway from a stallmanite perspective, steam is as non-free as windows | Jan 02 22:12 |
| Hail_Spacecake | and so are nearly all steam games | Jan 02 22:12 |
| Hail_Spacecake | rms is prone to the kinda-silly lame pun insult of proprietary software company thing | Jan 02 22:12 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but he's not wrong about the video games I personally want to play being unfree | Jan 02 22:13 |
| matlock | I am hoping that the increasing popularity of app stores for Linux and the Steam/CrossOver/Wine thing (not sure what that whole is called) will spur more games. It would be nice if AAA games were crossplatform Win/Linux/macOS on launch. | Jan 02 22:14 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: TBH if I just wanted to play AAA games I'd buy a console or use a windows VM | Jan 02 22:15 |
| danielp3344 | But games aren't fun if you can't hack/clone them | Jan 02 22:15 |
| danielp3344 | most of the games that have really long term followings are free | Jan 02 22:16 |
| matlock | Endless, the people behind Endless OS, has put out some games through a new gaming studio they have. It's sort-of open source but they restrict redistribution to an extent. | Jan 02 22:16 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: link | Jan 02 22:16 |
| danielp3344 | ?* | Jan 02 22:16 |
| matlock | https://terminaltwo.com/home | Jan 02 22:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-terminaltwo.com | Terminal Two | Jan 02 22:17 | |
| pav5088 | Free Software = progressive... Open Source = corp centrist. The centrists "won" ie. tech indie media was bought out, steering committees were stocked with corporate flunkies etc... though the average geek is beginning to understand what they've lost, and it's interesting to watch the backlash growing. | Jan 02 22:18 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: I've definitely noticed more cross-platform games than there used to be | Jan 02 22:18 |
| MinceR | "sort-of open source", also known as "not open source" | Jan 02 22:19 |
| Hail_Spacecake | pav5088: I don't think that's quite an accurate characterization | Jan 02 22:19 |
| danielp3344 | is there source? | Jan 02 22:19 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I think it's better to say that open-source software won in the PC-centered world of software you run on your own computer | Jan 02 22:19 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure if the average geek is beginning to understand anything | Jan 02 22:19 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but, simultaneously, people doing their computing on other people's servers, often via smartphones, became a way more common mode of computer use | Jan 02 22:20 |
| danielp3344 | I see no source | Jan 02 22:20 |
| Hail_Spacecake | and that's something that the FSF was genuinely bad at fighting politically | Jan 02 22:20 |
| danielp3344 | imagine making a game about programming without any source lol | Jan 02 22:20 |
| Hail_Spacecake | because software freedom does in fact imply the freedom to run software on your own server for the purpose of making it available to people as a free webapp, as long as they give you enough personal data to monetize | Jan 02 22:21 |
| Hail_Spacecake | granted, facebook's stack isn't entirely free software, but even if it was it wouldn't make much of a difference wrt what is good and bad about facebook | Jan 02 22:21 |
| Hail_Spacecake | or twitter or google or any other large software company | Jan 02 22:22 |
| Hail_Spacecake | so you have this problem where companies are genuinely using and contributing to free software projects, the way that it was intended | Jan 02 22:22 |
| pav5088 | MinceR : I had a friend who worked for Amazon... and another who works for a Microsoft subcontractor... Not really a large sample... but eg. when Bernie Sanders has to help conservative IBM geeks get back their pensions I think the realisation is pretty deep. | Jan 02 22:22 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but those companies are also violating user compute freedom in a sort of roundabout way that the FSF didn't consider | Jan 02 22:22 |
| matlock | danielp3344 I can't find source now, they have definitely hidden it if it's out there, but when I found it before it had a weird license and I could tell they were trying to be kinda open while balancing the needs of a game | Jan 02 22:23 |
| Hail_Spacecake | anyone here care about urbit, btw? | Jan 02 22:23 |
| danielp3344 | <matlock "Daniel Peterson I can't find sou"> needs? | Jan 02 22:23 |
| MinceR | pav5088: and what are those friends beginning to understand? | Jan 02 22:23 |
| MinceR | pav5088: i think if the average geek was beginning to understand anything, systemd-free GNU/Linux distros wouldn't all be "obscure" | Jan 02 22:23 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I don't think it's well defined who anyone is thinking about, when they say "average geek" | Jan 02 22:24 |
| Hail_Spacecake | one of the other trends of the previous decade is people who are decidedly not geeks at all | Jan 02 22:24 |
| Hail_Spacecake | becoming the vast majority of people who use software | Jan 02 22:24 |
| pav5088 | pav5088, both those people were big "open source" people... anti-Stallman "pragmatic" etc... but I think their opinion has changed somewhat. | Jan 02 22:24 |
| Hail_Spacecake | and who have concerns about how large software companies operate that are not at all geek concerns | Jan 02 22:24 |
| pav5088 | MinceR, | Jan 02 22:25 |
| pav5088 | oops | Jan 02 22:25 |
| Hail_Spacecake | neither free nor open source software has anything to say about whether or not jack should ban the nazis | Jan 02 22:25 |
| MinceR | pav5088: i see | Jan 02 22:25 |
| Hail_Spacecake | bitcoin is free software but I bet rms wouldn't like it | Jan 02 22:26 |
| MinceR | i guess they'll live to see the full effects of all those "pragmatic" people doing "pragmatic" things :> | Jan 02 22:26 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but lots of other people do like it | Jan 02 22:26 |
| Hail_Spacecake | MinceR: what specific bad effects are you worried about? | Jan 02 22:26 |
| Hail_Spacecake | like, you personally | Jan 02 22:26 |
| MinceR | the end of Linux, GNU and FSF | Jan 02 22:26 |
| MinceR | the end of general purpose computers | Jan 02 22:27 |
| MinceR | perhaps even the end of the IT industry and human society | Jan 02 22:27 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I'm more worried about that from a hardware perspective | Jan 02 22:27 |
| MinceR | yeah, general purpose computers are hardware :> | Jan 02 22:27 |
| Hail_Spacecake | as long as PC-like hardwar exists, someone can port linux to it | Jan 02 22:27 |
| MinceR | PC-like hardware is pretty much already dead | Jan 02 22:27 |
| MinceR | we have UEFI appliances instead, waiting for the final steps of microshit locking it down | Jan 02 22:28 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but what if no one builds a PC that has an unlocked bootloader, just like how nearlyno one builds android phones like this? | Jan 02 22:28 |
| MinceR | exactly | Jan 02 22:28 |
| cubexyz | It's not dead, gigabyte works with coreboot | Jan 02 22:28 |
| Hail_Spacecake | how do you solve that problem by fighting microsoft though? | Jan 02 22:28 |
| Hail_Spacecake | that's a problem with a bunch of random asian companies that actually produce the hardware | Jan 02 22:28 |
| Hail_Spacecake | or with intel | Jan 02 22:28 |
| MinceR | my UEFI appliances can still pretend they have a BIOS, but intel announced they're killing CSM off this year | Jan 02 22:28 |
| MinceR | microsloth controls them with the threat of hiking the license fee of Backdoors | Jan 02 22:29 |
| MinceR | as for intel, i'm not sure what's going on there but they're acting an awful lot like a sockpuppet for the robber barons of redmond | Jan 02 22:29 |
| MinceR | for example with UEFI | Jan 02 22:29 |
| pav5088 | When I was at university the old Unix nerds were similarly jaded, except back then it was about the Unix wars - they abandoned BSDs (= fragmentation) to support Linux even though it was less well developed because the GNU public license was stronger than MIT, and stopped proprietary forks. It's kind of like history is repeating, and we're due for a backlash now. | Jan 02 22:29 |
| MinceR | with PE, FAT and other microsuck shit built in | Jan 02 22:29 |
| cubexyz | and I believe XRevan86 said he uses coreboot on thinkpad X230 | Jan 02 22:29 |
| MinceR | not even a gesture to competitors | Jan 02 22:29 |
| cubexyz | not sure how old X230 is though | Jan 02 22:30 |
| MinceR | and AMD follows pretty much every evil thing intel does, so x86 will probably be locked down soon | Jan 02 22:30 |
| Hail_Spacecake | linux can run on ARM | Jan 02 22:30 |
| Hail_Spacecake | but can you buy an ARM laptop? | Jan 02 22:30 |
| MinceR | ARM devices also tend to be locked down | Jan 02 22:30 |
| cubexyz | MinceR, what would you recommend? | Jan 02 22:31 |
| Hail_Spacecake | that's a hardware problem | Jan 02 22:31 |
| MinceR | and there's hardly enough information about what TrustZone does | Jan 02 22:31 |
| Hail_Spacecake | you can't solve that with software licenses | Jan 02 22:31 |
| MinceR | cubexyz: there are no products i can recommend | Jan 02 22:31 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: sure there are | Jan 02 22:31 |
| MinceR | only attempting to build computers based on open cores and FPGAs, but it will be slow | Jan 02 22:31 |
| Hail_Spacecake | yeah, but I think something like that is necessary | Jan 02 22:31 |
| danielp3344 | POWER, RISC-V | Jan 02 22:31 |
| Hail_Spacecake | and it's not in the wheelhouse of the FSF or GNU, except purely ideologically | Jan 02 22:31 |
| MinceR | is there a core that implements RISC-V yet? | Jan 02 22:31 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: indeed | Jan 02 22:32 |
| MinceR | how can we tell it's not backdoored like intel cpus are? | Jan 02 22:32 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: 2012 | Jan 02 22:32 |
| MinceR | how can we tell POWER cpus are not backdoored that way? | Jan 02 22:32 |
| danielp3344 | one second | Jan 02 22:32 |
| danielp3344 | (there's actually more than one) | Jan 02 22:32 |
| danielp3344 | <MinceR "how can we tell it's not backdoo"> read the HDL | Jan 02 22:32 |
| cubexyz | MinceR, I'm almost surprised you don't have a PDP-11 :) | Jan 02 22:32 |
| MinceR | how can we tell whichever fab we have manufacture them doesn't add their backdoors to it? | Jan 02 22:33 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive-unleashed | Jan 02 22:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.crowdsupply.com | HiFive Unleashed | Crowd Supply | Jan 02 22:33 | |
| MinceR | cubexyz: there's no room for a PDP-11 here :( | Jan 02 22:33 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: it would be noticeable I think | Jan 02 22:33 |
| MinceR | though i suppose _maybe_ it's possible for someone who's knowledgeable enough to order a shipment of 1000 CPUs based on an open design, randomly select 10, de-cap and audit them | Jan 02 22:33 |
| cubexyz | MinceR, I was thinking you could keep recapping old motherboards that are pre-UEFI | Jan 02 22:34 |
| MinceR | i don't know if it's even something we can rely on | Jan 02 22:34 |
| cubexyz | not ideal, but still better than nothing | Jan 02 22:34 |
| MinceR | cubexyz: well, i have a ThinkPad X60s, that's pre-UEFI and pre-IME | Jan 02 22:34 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: There are newer laptops that coreboot supports. | Jan 02 22:34 |
| danielp3344 | Someday I want to buy a few thousand transistors and build a computer | Jan 02 22:34 |
| MinceR | doable but it would be very slow | Jan 02 22:34 |
| danielp3344 | even a simple one | Jan 02 22:34 |
| MinceR | and slow computers aren't that useful for cryptography/security purposes | Jan 02 22:35 |
| danielp3344 | but they're fun | Jan 02 22:35 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 02 22:35 |
| danielp3344 | and very auditable | Jan 02 22:35 |
| MinceR | in fact, ever since i realized it might not be feasible to produce a computer PCB at home, even the PCB could be backdoored for all i know | Jan 02 22:35 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: I think it should be possible to detect cpu backdoors by analyzing power usage | Jan 02 22:36 |
| MinceR | i doubt it | Jan 02 22:36 |
| XRevan86 | My usage of coreboot also means that I don't have UEFI, as I don't want to deal with Tianocore | Jan 02 22:36 |
| MinceR | cpus are extremely complex | Jan 02 22:36 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: they shouldn't be | Jan 02 22:36 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 02 22:36 |
| XRevan86 | And even if I had used Tianocore, I'd still probably lack any Secure Boot support | Jan 02 22:37 |
| danielp3344 | It's not actually secure, you're not missing anything | Jan 02 22:37 |
| MinceR | microshit hipsters will laugh at you | Jan 02 22:37 |
| MinceR | "what, you don't even have Secure Boot?" | Jan 02 22:37 |
| pav5088 | MinceR, I was looking for an updated version of the old "paperclip computer" book from the 1960's... Building my own computer from logic gates during my computer architecture course was fun... and making one from household items would be next level. | Jan 02 22:38 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: am I supposed to care? | Jan 02 22:38 |
| danielp3344 | pav5088: what sort of items? | Jan 02 22:38 |
| MinceR | no :) | Jan 02 22:38 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I don't know how my computer continues to work without it | Jan 02 22:38 |
| pav5088 | danielp3344, well... the original book involved paperclips, a tin can (for "drum memory"), light bulbs (LEDs are the logical choice these days) etc... | Jan 02 22:39 |
| danielp3344 | mmm | Jan 02 22:39 |
| pav5088 | I didn't look far enough into it to work out how they were making their logic gates. | Jan 02 22:39 |
| danielp3344 | a mechanical computer? | Jan 02 22:39 |
| pav5088 | No, digital. | Jan 02 22:39 |
| danielp3344 | yeah I was going to ask... | Jan 02 22:40 |
| matlock | It's kind of funny a minimal MINIX is running in there. | Jan 02 22:40 |
| danielp3344 | how do you make gates... | Jan 02 22:40 |
| danielp3344 | matlock: IME? | Jan 02 22:40 |
| matlock | Yup. | Jan 02 22:40 |
| danielp3344 | yeah stay clear of that | Jan 02 22:40 |
| MinceR | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/23/brit_mega_processor/ | Jan 02 22:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.co.uk | This whopping 16-bit computer processor is being built by hand, transistor by transistor • The Register | Jan 02 22:40 | |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: beautiful | Jan 02 22:41 |
| pav5088 | danielp3344, apparently transistors and resistors... | Jan 02 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | pav5088: oh | Jan 02 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | RTL, fun | Jan 02 22:41 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/646543.png | Jan 02 22:43 |
| XRevan86 | scientes got to reference Putin, I'll do it too | Jan 02 22:45 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: https://youtu.be/7MIBg-jSvqs | Jan 02 22:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Vladimir Putin announces 'Russians will go to Heaven as martyrs' - YouTube | Jan 02 22:45 | |
| pav5088 | danielp3344, I did the same thing with AND-gate chips... so I was more interested in how they handled IO, storage etc... | Jan 02 22:45 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: good for them | Jan 02 22:46 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: The title is incomplete | Jan 02 22:46 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/646528.jpg | Jan 02 22:50 |
| Hail_Spacecake | pav5088: it's pretty easy to find information online about how to build from parts a computer that's as good as a 1960s computer | Jan 02 22:51 |
| Hail_Spacecake | the problem is doing this for a 1990s era computer | Jan 02 22:51 |
| Hail_Spacecake | let alone a modern computer | Jan 02 22:51 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jan 02 22:51 |
| MinceR | i wonder how difficult would it be to backdoor an FPGA so that it will give an attacker access to an open core that's written onto it | Jan 02 22:52 |
| matlock | Hail_Spacecake Do you think it would be possible from the 486 or early Pentium era? | Jan 02 22:53 |
| pav5088 | Hail_Spacecake, I wasn't talking about doing something practical... just for fun... | Jan 02 22:54 |
| Hail_Spacecake | matlock: I do not know | Jan 02 22:54 |
| MinceR | i suppose if it provides registers then those could be remotely read/written but one doesn't have to use them | Jan 02 22:54 |
| Hail_Spacecake | for instance I've watched ben eater's youtube videos on mkaing 8 bit computers | Jan 02 22:54 |
| Hail_Spacecake | on a breadboard | Jan 02 22:54 |
| Hail_Spacecake | maybe you could use those sorts of techniques to make like a 4 MHz 8 bit cpu? | Jan 02 22:54 |
| Hail_Spacecake | with commodore 64 amounts of ram? | Jan 02 22:55 |
| matlock | The ISA bus from that era was pretty open. I also wonder if the government ever built a machine from scratch, which you could obtain specs for through FOIA. | Jan 02 22:57 |
| matlock | IBM and other makers gave the BIOS source code to customers at the time, usually printed, which would have included the government. | Jan 02 22:58 |
| cubexyz | just fill your house with pre-UEFI computers :) | Jan 02 23:08 |
| cubexyz | Columbia Data Products made the first IBM PC clone in 1982 | Jan 02 23:09 |
| cubexyz | right, so in the olden days therer were no restrictions on OS via BIOS | Jan 02 23:09 |
| cubexyz | you could install CP/M, MS-DOS, Minix, etc | Jan 02 23:10 |
| danielp3344 | theoretically could you build a computer with a low clock speed but very wide bus out of discrete components that would compete with modern cpus? | Jan 02 23:11 |
| danielp3344 | like a 256bit bus | Jan 02 23:11 |
| cubexyz | well, in the very old days, yes | Jan 02 23:12 |
| danielp3344 | I mean now | Jan 02 23:12 |
| danielp3344 | if you had a very fast alu | Jan 02 23:12 |
| danielp3344 | that could do lots in parallel | Jan 02 23:12 |
| cubexyz | I don't see how you could without VLSI | Jan 02 23:14 |
| MinceR | well, if you really wanted to be secure, they'd also need to be pre-speculative execution as well :> | Jan 02 23:15 |
| cubexyz | discrete components would also get a lot hotter even at low CPU speeds | Jan 02 23:16 |
| matlock | Liquid cooled 8086 server farm | Jan 02 23:16 |
| cubexyz | you just can't do modern video without VLSI chips | Jan 02 23:17 |
| danielp3344 | cubexyz: who needs video when you have a tty | Jan 02 23:18 |
| matlock | ASCII movies | Jan 02 23:18 |
| cubexyz | you could probably do tty sure, just like the PDP-8 did, but then you're going back to the 1960's era | Jan 02 23:19 |
| danielp3344 | cubexyz: Unfortunately I missed them by about 40 years :P | Jan 02 23:19 |
| danielp3344 | But that's OK with me | Jan 02 23:19 |
| XRevan86 | mpv -vo caca | Jan 02 23:20 |
| cubexyz | danielinux, you'd probably like the early Z80 era | Jan 02 23:20 |
| cubexyz | oops sorry | Jan 02 23:20 |
| cubexyz | danielp3344 | Jan 02 23:20 |
| cubexyz | you could etch your own motherboards, fit all the chips, wire-wrap, and prestro: Z80 microcomputer | Jan 02 23:21 |
| cubexyz | that's using VLSI chips still | Jan 02 23:21 |
| danielp3344 | yeah z80 is cool | Jan 02 23:22 |
| danielp3344 | but not very fast | Jan 02 23:22 |
| *DaemonFC[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/VGexcERihskDKvqhEXnksCJi > | Jan 02 23:23 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I've watched that movie too much. | Jan 02 23:23 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: I forgot the EMH was in that movie | Jan 02 23:24 |
| cubexyz | nowadays I've seen people throw 486s, pentiums and even P3's in the trash | Jan 02 23:24 |
| cubexyz | but I still have a working amiga 500, so I got the MC68000 covered | Jan 02 23:24 |
| danielp3344 | cubexyz: if you don't get a datasheet it's not a real cpu | Jan 02 23:26 |
| cubexyz | http://c74project.com | Jan 02 23:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-c74project.com | C74-6502 CPU – A Homemade TTL 6502 | Jan 02 23:29 | |
| cubexyz | so yeah, TTL 6502 exists | Jan 02 23:29 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/6k9cr36.mp4 ( https://imgur.com/gallery/TuMu7MZ ) | Jan 02 23:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-That was the last we saw of him... - Album on Imgur | Jan 02 23:34 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'd put DOS on an old x86 system, myself. | Jan 02 23:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I had a 486 with FreeDOS up until like 2012. | Jan 02 23:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The hard disk finally crashed. | Jan 02 23:35 |
| matlock | Do a lot of pro-Microsoft people come here? | Jan 02 23:44 |
| MinceR | way too many, yes | Jan 02 23:44 |
| MinceR | though it seems that their astroturfing budget has shrunk somewhat since the boycottnovell days | Jan 02 23:45 |
| matlock | I just haven't seen anyone in the past couple days I have been lurking and participating here that would come close to 'overwhelming' as described here: https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1212811437992808448 | Jan 02 23:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Must have stuck a major nerve again. #microsoft boosters overwhelming the #irc channels of #techrights again this w… https://t.co/nZcf40RcsU | Jan 02 23:49 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Must have stuck a major nerve again. #microsoft boosters overwhelming the #irc channels of #techrights again this w… https://t.co/nZcf40RcsU | Jan 02 23:49 | |
| MinceR | i would have been surprised if you said "yeah, we've really swarmed the channel lately" | Jan 02 23:52 |
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