●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Sunday, December 06, 2020 ●● ● Dec 06 [00:00] psydroid VZS1, that list would be never-ending, because all x86 systems have ME/PSP embedded on the processor and the motherboard, so there is really no way around it [00:00] psydroid Unless you designed your own x86 system based on an FPGA, I guess [00:01] psydroid But with all the options out there, why bother? [00:01] MinceR all the options for what? [00:01] vZS1 The RISC-V and ARM hardware seem more welcoming to things like (core/libre)boot [00:02] psydroid (mostly) unencumbered hardware [00:03] MinceR most ARM systems are locked down and come with TrustZone [00:04] psydroid but not all of them like with x86 [00:04] MinceR just the ones you can buy [00:05] schestowitz and nvidia coming soon [00:05] schestowitz coming all over the arm [00:05] MinceR ew [00:05] schestowitz nvidia the freedom-loving company [00:05] schestowitz nvidia loves freedom [00:05] schestowitz zemlin: zemlin loves nvidia! [00:06] schestowitz "pay me more" [00:06] psydroid and as far as I know, TrustZone is more like a facility which you can load your own build of ARM Trusted Firmware into [00:06] psydroid I don't see how it's worse than the Intel ME [00:06] MinceR like AMD, they don't really advertise what it does [00:06] MinceR but "Trusted" is already a big red flag [00:06] schestowitz psp [00:06] schestowitz trust [00:06] schestowitz tpm [00:06] schestowitz you need to trust them [00:07] schestowitz because they don't trust you [00:07] schestowitz why not trust those big companies? [00:07] schestowitz it's not like they sell hardware to armies [00:07] schestowitz armies make their own chips [00:07] schestowitz from sand [00:07] MinceR they don't trust you with your own property [00:08] schestowitz no [00:08] MinceR it's hard to build a trustworthy system when the manufacturers of the components won't tell you what their products do [00:08] schestowitz it's not your propety [00:08] vZS1 Some articles on this topic from people with domain knowledge would be nice [00:08] schestowitz you buy the obligation to feed it into the power supple [00:08] schestowitz and not to even modify the chips [00:08] schestowitz that would be "AYE PEE" infringement [00:08] schestowitz and there are laws for that [00:09] schestowitz some people arrested already [00:09] vZS1 I would like to read how to get stuff like libreboot installed on more devices [00:09] schestowitz https://dwaves.de/2020/12/03/libreboot-lvm-encrypted-volumes-needs-correct-cmos-clock-time-volume-group-not-found-failed-to-read-int-token-error-parsing-metadata/ [00:09] schestowitz (new) [00:09] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- LibreBoot LVM encrypted volumes needs correct CMOS clock time Volume Group not found failed to read int token error parsing metadata | dwaves.de [00:30] psydroid VZS1, over in #talos-workstation we are talking about overcoming the trusting trust problem first hypothesised by Ken Thompson [00:31] psydroid so yes, we would have to look at the whole stack of software and hardware and possibly build our own [00:37] schestowitz vZS1: you got s reply [00:37] schestowitz > I believe very strongly they are still based primarily on Gitlab. [00:37] schestowitz > Systemd is based on GitHub, most of Freedesktop.org's GitHub says it's a [00:37] schestowitz > mirror and I believe that is accurate. [00:37] schestowitz > [00:37] schestowitz > I'd like to know if Freedesktop moves to GitHub, though except for [00:37] schestowitz > systemd (which isn't new) I don't think that's happened. [00:37] schestowitz > [00:37] schestowitz > vZS1 [00:37] schestowitz > Wait wut [00:37] schestowitz > Dec 04 18:35 [00:37] schestowitz > 04 18:35:09> [00:37] schestowitz > vZS1 [00:37] schestowitz > Freedesktop moved to ShitLab [00:37] schestowitz > Dec 04 18:35 [00:37] schestowitz > 04 18:35:31> [00:37] schestowitz > vZS1 [00:37] schestowitz > The old bugs are still on bugzilla [00:37] schestowitz > Dec 04 18:35 [00:37] schestowitz > 04 18:35:42> [00:37] schestowitz > vZS1 [00:37] schestowitz > When did that happen [00:37] schestowitz > Oops, sorry-- that was about bugzilla. Yes, hilariously (or sadly) they [00:37] schestowitz > are on GitHub. [00:38] vZS1 schestowitz: yeah. I've got them via email [00:39] vZS1 psydroid: I can join the channel as an observer [00:39] *vZS1 has quit (Quit: Quit) [00:40] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [00:41] schestowitz > SFC: Sponsor-Fellating... [00:41] schestowitz > [00:41] schestowitz > I could continue but it won't get any nicer. [00:43] MinceR :) [00:59] psydroid vZS1, I am calling it a night, but do feel free to ask questions there as there are so many knowledgeable people united around the idea of owner controlled computers (and not just those based on IBM POWER) ● Dec 06 [01:00] vZS1 I'll keep an eye on the chat (: [01:01] psydroid alright :) [01:13] DaemonFC[m] (CNN)President Donald Trump on Saturday called Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, pushing him to convince state legislators to overturn President-elect Joe Biden's win in the state, a source familiar with the conversation told CNN. [01:13] DaemonFC[m] Trump asked Kemp to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to the source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures. [01:13] DaemonFC[m] Kemp explained that he did not have the authority to order such an audit and denied the request to call a special session, the source said. [01:15] DaemonFC[m] --- [01:15] DaemonFC[m] CNN previously reported that Trump had recently bashed Kemp, who is a supporter of his, as a "moron" and a "nut job" during another phone call. And earlier this week, the President publicly criticized the governor in an interview on Fox News, saying he was "ashamed" he had endorsed Kemp. [01:16] MinceR lol [01:28] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: You're a moron and a nutcase. Now I need these two really big favors that are kind of illegal. [01:28] DaemonFC[m] :) [01:28] MinceR lol [01:29] MinceR what could possibly go wrong? [01:40] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:41] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) ● Dec 06 [02:04] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:04] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:15] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: Just to piss off my parents I just don't even call him Trump anymore. [02:15] DaemonFC[m] I just call it the outgoing regime. [02:15] MinceR :> [02:15] MinceR LOTUS [02:15] DaemonFC[m] Like many other Americans who will get their eviction notice in January. [02:15] DaemonFC[m] Pack your shit and get out. [02:16] MinceR (Loser Of The United States) [02:16] DaemonFC[m] Just throw all his belongings on Black Lives Matter Plaza. [02:16] DaemonFC[m] :D ● Dec 06 [03:27] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [03:27] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [03:32] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [03:32] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [04:16] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) ● Dec 06 [05:08] DaemonFC[m] I might look into Fedora 33 a bit on the new system. [05:16] *cubexyz (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #techrights [05:20] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [05:20] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [05:31] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [05:33] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [05:44] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/) [05:45] *KREYREN has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [05:53] *chovy (~chovy@pdpc/supporter/active/chovy) has joined #techrights [05:53] chovy howdy [05:56] search_social hi ● Dec 06 [06:24] schestowitz 0/ [06:37] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:37] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [06:38] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [06:38] *rianne has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [06:45] *notanamber (~luca@2001:b07:a16:5bc0:bd01:a12:47e2:5907) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [07:17] schestowitz Re: DMCA exemptions submissions - SFC and SFC "new strategy for GPL ENFORCEMENT" [07:17] schestowitz > Hi! [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > Look, I think I found a match! [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > https://sfconservancy.org/news/2020/oct/01/new-copyleft-strategy-launched-with-ARDC-grant/ [07:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-sfconservancy.org | Conservancy Announces New Strategy for GPL Enforcement and Related Work, Receives Grant from ARDC - Software Freedom Conservancy [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > The SFC new strategy for GPL ENFORCEMENT... [07:18] schestowitz > Conservancy Announces New Strategy for GPL Enforcement and Related Work, Receives Grant from ARDC [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > Exemption proposal: [07:18] schestowitz > https://www.copyright.gov/1201/2021/petitions/proposed/New%20Pet.%20-%20Software%20Freedom%20Conservancy%20-%201.pdf [07:18] schestowitz > [07:18] schestowitz > Yes. The Proposed exemption is definitely self-serving - maybe especially now SFC got a grant. [07:18] schestowitz > To be sure, I will be submitting comments to the copyright office about this! [07:36] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has left #techrights [07:38] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [07:59] vZS1 schestowitz: you know they're evil. Look at all those spaces in the URI. The "%20"s. Spawn of Satan. ● Dec 06 [08:00] schestowitz maybe the Copyright Office renamed it [08:00] schestowitz or maybe SFC used a filename like this [08:01] schestowitz "New Pet. - Software Freedom Conservancy - 1.pdf" [08:01] schestowitz UTF-8 [08:01] schestowitz www.copyright.gov Cloudflare, Inc. [08:02] search_social what's wrong with it [08:02] schestowitz made with PDFium [08:03] schestowitz with which part, search_social ? [08:03] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [08:05] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [08:07] search_social why is the exemption self-serving [08:09] schestowitz explained in yesterday's post: [08:10] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/12/05/dmca-sfc/ [08:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | A Closer Look at Richard Stallmans Ousters From Inside the Free Software Foundation (Board) | Techrights [08:16] schestowitz HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI (AI) SPAM. "As per EPO (European Patent Office) estimates, patent application in the region..." [08:16] schestowitz HEY HI HARDWARE! Everything is HEY HI now! Even Clown Computing and chips... HEY HI https://tristateobserver.com/uncategorized/137337/ai-chipsets-market-is-booming-worldwide-according-to-a-new-research-report/ [08:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-tristateobserver.com | AI Chipsets Market is Booming Worldwide According to a New Research Report Tri State Observer [08:31] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [08:55] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [09:01] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [09:04] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [09:25] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [09:25] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [09:30] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [09:32] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [10:14] *tr_guest|86191 (021fadb9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.2.31.173.185) has joined #techrights [10:15] *tr_guest|86191 has quit (Client Quit) [10:44] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [11:11] *BifrostBot[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [11:11] *psydroid has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [11:12] *DaemonFC[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [11:12] *Blue_flame has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [11:12] *rodolpho[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [11:13] *chris_uk[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [11:32] *BifrostBot[m] (bifrostmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hgdkwhantsgodjxu) has joined #techrights [11:34] *DaemonFC[m] (daemonfcma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fduiotzmldcjahvf) has joined #techrights [11:36] *inky (~inky@46.241.138.99) has joined #techrights [11:36] *Mogzagain (~Mogzagain@185.192.69.98) has joined #techrights [11:37] Mogzagain hi Roy [11:37] Mogzagain I'd just emailed you back, but something's doing my head in a bit, lol, so I just thought I'd pop in here instead [11:37] Mogzagain I'm female, and the article refers to me as a male artist, eek [11:38] Mogzagain Is it possible to edit that? [11:41] *chris_uk[m] (chrisukmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cjmdqwmqrymhfwep) has joined #techrights [11:44] *rodolpho[m] (rodolphoma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-irvtyuddnrqpwtnt) has joined #techrights [11:46] *psydroid (psydroidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cmuxavcpolgicltp) has joined #techrights [11:47] *Blue_flame (kopynewmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-fzscyjailoweoxoi) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [12:02] vZS1 schestowitz: ping (see Mog's message) [12:03] vZS1 Mogzagain: I like the art btw. [12:04] Mogzagain Thanks vZS1, and really glad you like the art [12:16] vZS1 Mogzagain: do you use PGP-encrypted email? [12:17] Mogzagain I use Posteo, and I think that is, probably ... lol, not sure; it has all kinds of really good encryption [12:17] vZS1 Because I was forwarded a message you sent to Roy. I can mail you my contact details, if you like. [12:18] vZS1 Just letting you know [12:19] Mogzagain I see; yes, when you'd been in chat previously and we'd talked about art, you'd said you'd like something uplifting about the last year or two, so I remembered that and asked Roy to forward you a copy of the painting [12:19] Mogzagain And thanks for offering to email; that's great. [12:21] vZS1 I'll send you a ping over email. Redundancy, in case you can't get a hold of me here. [12:21] Mogzagain Thanks! [12:22] Mogzagain Are you saying you've lost your job, or have I misunderstood? [12:22] vZS1 No [12:22] Mogzagain phew, that's good [12:23] Mogzagain I've only used email in the most direct way, eek, so am looking up about pinging now. Not sure what'll happen, lol. Such an artist! [12:25] vZS1 This definition: the provision of additional or duplicate systems, equipment, etc., that function in case an operating part or system fails [12:25] vZS1 Mogzagain: ping is just an informal thing. It's a normal email. (: [12:25] Mogzagain I see! [12:25] Mogzagain the article I found was so complex, it threw me, lol [12:26] vZS1 Sent the email btw [12:27] Mogzagain I see it; thanks! [12:27] Mogzagain it's just come through [12:27] vZS1 If you're on GNU/Linux, I can teach you how to use GnuPG to encrypt your email. [12:27] vZS1 It's just a few command line inputs [12:28] Mogzagain That's a very kind offer, but I think Posteo does that, tbh ... unless there's a way to check that via the few lines? I feel like I should put up an alert sign or something, as I'm so non-tech, lol [12:29] vZS1 It may well do PGP. I don't know anything about Posteo. [12:29] Mogzagain I'm just checking about it's methods ... [12:30] Mogzagain Access to our server occurs fundamentally over encrypted TLS connections. We secure this additionally with "Perfect Forward Secrecy" technology (PFS) and DANE/TLSA. PFS effectively prevents the possibility that logged connection information could be mass-decrypted by a third party. DANE verifies the authenticity of our server. [12:30] vZS1 Look up "PGP public key" in the docs. [12:30] Mogzagain Strict Transport Security (HSTS) and DANE/TLSA is referenced [12:31] vZS1 That's not end-to-end encryption [12:31] vZS1 That's just transport layer encryption (: [12:31] Mogzagain :-( [12:31] Mogzagain there were some extra settings within Posteo to turn stuff on, so I'll just check that too [12:31] vZS1 Try to find the words "PGP" or "GPG" [12:32] vZS1 Btw, you don't have to do this now. Just let me know when you're interested to learn and I can guide you through it some time [12:32] Mogzagain thanks; so far I've found the encryption section, that references crypto mail storage ... [12:32] Mogzagain which I activated [12:33] Mogzagain it's saying TLS-sending guarantee ensures always using encrypted transport route to send emails [12:33] vZS1 Give me a sec [12:33] vZS1 I need my keyboard for this [12:33] Mogzagain they say they won't send the email if they can't create an encrypted connection [12:34] Mogzagain okay :-) [12:34] Mogzagain oops, I hadn't switched that on, lol, the non-sending bit [12:34] Mogzagain SSLv3 isn't tolerated, they say, by them [12:34] Mogzagain there's a PGP section! [12:34] Mogzagain yay [12:35] Mogzagain they say ... install the open source add-on Mailvelope in order to use genuine end-to-end encryption when working in webmail interface, and they link to instructions [12:35] vZS1 So there are a few things going on here all of which are encryption [12:35] Mogzagain that's good, and I'm glad you asked, as this Mailvelope isn't installed, so not end to end, as you said [12:36] vZS1 TLS/SSL is just encrypting the data while it's being transported. But that data is decrypted as soon as it gets to the client from the server [12:37] Mogzagain okay [12:38] vZS1 PGP (OpenPGP, to be precise) only allows decryption by intended recipeints. You need to encrypt the data specifically for a public key belonging to someone's PGP keyset. [12:38] Mogzagain okay [12:39] vZS1 So say, once you set up GnuPG (an OpenPGP implementation), you could use the public key of someone (and your already generated GnuPG secret key) to encrypt a file so that only the intended recipient can decrypt the file. [12:39] vZS1 You could then just attach that file to an email using any client [12:39] vZS1 Only the intended recipient can decrypt that message [12:40] Mogzagain I'm surprised a bit that they're suggesting a Firefox add-on, lol, but they've put illustrations showing how to generate a key, then enter email address and choose a password for access to private key, leaving the name field empty for anonymity. It continues, but a bit complicated, eek. [12:41] Mogzagain Always good to find illustrations, lol, so they do go on to demonstrate how to send public key to others, so they can encrypt emails to me [12:41] vZS1 I would suggest against using a third party client for PGP email. GnuPG can be used to encrypt a file from the command line and then you can just send that file as an attachment. That way your encryption keys don't get uploaded anywhere (this defeats the whole purpose of PGP). [12:42] Mogzagain yes, that's concerning me, the using of a FF add-on. I'm actually in waterfox, not because I want to be, but because I'm unsure anything else is any more secure. just found a Brave appimage, as I don't want to install it, but I've only run it briefly once, as I want to read around and check up on it [12:43] Mogzagain which browser do you use? [12:43] vZS1 I have access to all the common browsers [12:43] Mogzagain great [12:43] vZS1 You don't need any addons to do PGP btw [12:43] vZS1 GnuPG should already be installed on your GNU/Linux distro [12:44] vZS1 Just encrypt files with that and then you can attach them to an email you send. [12:44] vZS1 Thus the contents of the email are encrypted [12:44] Mogzagain that sounds great; I'll take a look at it at some point [12:44] vZS1 And you retain control of your PGP keys (GnuPG stores them on your disk) [12:45] Mogzagain good that there's backup for the email, for sure [12:45] Mogzagain and to avoid a Firefox add-on! [12:45] vZS1 Good stuff. Let me know if you get stuck :) [12:45] Mogzagain Thanks! :-) [12:45] vZS1 Yes. Do not trust any third-party with your PGP keys [12:45] vZS1 They should only be on your disk and no where else [12:45] Mogzagain may I ask what your view of Brave is? Is it something that would be better than Waterfox? [12:46] Mogzagain Will be sure to keep any keys very private; thanks! [12:46] vZS1 And you're welcome :) [12:46] Mogzagain Thanks! :-) [12:46] vZS1 I don't really have an opinion because I don't know anything about it [12:46] Mogzagain okay [12:46] Mogzagain I presumed there, lol, when you said about access to all browsers [12:47] vZS1 That's just on a superficial level. No domain expert knowledge [12:47] Mogzagain I see; no problem :-) [12:51] vZS1 This article is relevant to some of your questions and concerns: http://techrights.org/2020/11/27/encrypt-with-e2ee-in-depth-article/ [12:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Guarding Your Privacy With E2EE: Primer | Techrights [12:54] Mogzagain Thank you very much [12:54] vZS1 Yw (: [12:55] Mogzagain I don't know how I missed that one, lol ... I use RSS (liferea), but sometimes one or two items don't get through maybe ● Dec 06 [13:08] vZS1 Could be your RSS client bugging out. [13:09] vZS1 Or maybe you just clicked "mark as read" and forgot. I do it all the time. Lol [13:10] schestowitz [11:37] I'm female, and the article refers to me as a male artist, eek [13:10] schestowitz Mogzagain: oops [13:10] schestowitz will correct asap [13:10] schestowitz sorry for my false impression [13:11] Mogzagain Thanks vZS1, and lol yes easy to do! [13:11] Mogzagain And thanks Roy too; that's awesome! [13:11] schestowitz IIRC, the word "he" was used just once [13:11] schestowitz the rest without gendered words [13:12] Mogzagain There's a 'himself' in there, lol [13:12] schestowitz ah, ok [13:13] schestowitz really don't know why I assumed gender wrongly [13:13] Mogzagain You wrote such a nice paragraph, too, about being non-tech but linux important for all who value privacy [13:13] schestowitz maybe something said in the past... not sure [13:13] Mogzagain Thanks for that, btw; that was really cool [13:13] schestowitz corrected now, will reread to make sure [13:13] Mogzagain nothing LGBT or anything; born female, so don't worry [13:14] schestowitz yeah, it's not that [13:14] Mogzagain I thought maybe you were busy, as I'd signed off with my real name in email thismorning; easy to miss things sometimes. No worries [13:14] schestowitz some of us are girls, we have several trans here also [13:15] Mogzagain I can see your corrections; thanks so much! And great article btw [13:15] schestowitz the nickname does not indicate otherwise and maybe something you said about a topic made me assume male, like a hobby or similar [13:15] schestowitz something you guess and guess wrong [13:15] schestowitz "on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog until you bark" [13:16] Mogzagain Yes, I understand we have lots of different great ppl here [13:16] schestowitz sorry, SO sorry [13:16] Mogzagain I'm trying to think what that could have been, lol [13:16] schestowitz I will publish some EPO leaks later today, just had a 2-hour nap [13:17] schestowitz worked 1-9am for my employer, thus took a while to see your correction [13:17] Mogzagain lol, yes, could be any name or location, anything [13:17] schestowitz I also made guesses about "where from" [13:17] Mogzagain No worries; I really appreciate you correcting it. You've done that as soon as you knew, so can't ask more than that. [13:17] schestowitz nuanced language [13:18] Mogzagain Yes, you're certainly very busy. [13:18] Mogzagain We've talked b4 about UK [13:18] schestowitz (apparently one's text can let the gender be guessed with high accuracy, based just on grammar and choice of words) [13:18] schestowitz Artistic types are rare here [13:18] schestowitz my aunt in Florida does art [13:18] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Anita/ [13:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Anita Tobkes [13:19] Mogzagain For sure; like some kind of snow lion, rarely spotted on the hillside, lol ... on linux too [13:19] Mogzagain What kind of art does your aunt do? [13:19] schestowitz (as a hobby she does, not professionally) [13:19] schestowitz not direct aunt, but we use the word loosely [13:20] Mogzagain I've followed the link ... lovely! Sisters at the Shore ... so impressionist, like Degas. Very good [13:20] Mogzagain It's always cool having those extra aunts and uncles [13:20] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Anita/Page2/Girl-With-A-Duck.jpg [13:20] schestowitz Mogzagain: esp. in small families [13:20] schestowitz mom has no siblings [13:20] schestowitz dad has one [13:20] schestowitz that's all I will say publiclyu [13:20] Mogzagain Love the Girl with a Duck [13:21] Mogzagain yes, good to expand little families more, for sure [13:22] schestowitz BTW [13:23] schestowitz we had lots of help from ladies at Techrighrs, historically [13:23] Mogzagain that's cool! [13:23] schestowitz sometimes on the art side, sometimes transcripts of things [13:24] schestowitz but the other day, maybe 2 days ago, it occurred to me that in IRC many are still male [13:24] Mogzagain that's great ... as and when, I can get some more art to you, for sure [13:24] Mogzagain yes, many men; majority of linux too [13:24] schestowitz and that it is not by choice, we don't say things offensive to women, I guess it's just something to do with number of women in CS and we're sometimes losing sight of it [13:25] schestowitz so I want to ask what your thoughts are; why it's hard to attract women to software freedom issues [13:25] Mogzagain yes, I find the chat always fine [13:25] Mogzagain I can answer that probably very easily ... [13:25] schestowitz go on [13:26] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [13:27] Mogzagain I think men often enjoy tech/code far more, and have a certain aptitude ... some women do also ... and the pressures there are in tech about needing to code and stuff like that can be really difficult to cope with. I think it's about give and take; whatever someone, whether male or female, can bring that helps with software freedom. [13:27] vZS1 Family is important. All kinds of family. (: [13:27] Mogzagain still thinking ... [13:27] Mogzagain yes, all kinds of family, vZS1 [13:27] vZS1 Especially important in times like these [13:28] schestowitz I have my theory, which I think is supported by something I read [13:28] Mogzagain go on ... [13:28] schestowitz and what I see in my wife's use of time [13:28] schestowitz CS has few women [13:28] schestowitz fewer than in school-level CS [13:28] Mogzagain sorry, what's CS? [13:28] schestowitz with "Linux" or "FOSS" even fewer [13:28] vZS1 Computer Science [13:28] Mogzagain I see! [13:28] schestowitz and hardcore "hacktivism" almost none [13:29] schestowitz hacktivism can almost never be done for financial gain [13:29] Mogzagain I do think that linux has it's issues [13:29] vZS1 Adafruit is founded by a female, iirc [13:29] schestowitz so it has to be purely passion-motivated [13:29] schestowitz which means using up one's very last available bits of time [13:29] schestowitz I work full time [13:29] schestowitz but if I have 100 hours/week of computer time, I can fit in techrights etc. [13:29] Mogzagain such a strong focus on things that can be very challenging, and then you get the trolling/abuse stuff, various things [13:30] schestowitz but when doing housekeeping it ends up being harder [13:30] Mogzagain yes, that's a lot of work [13:30] vZS1 I've got reading to do. Have a good day, all. [13:30] schestowitz in society there's still this traditional hunter/nesting 'thing' [13:30] Mogzagain And you, vZS1. have a great day! :-) [13:31] schestowitz women are of high aptitude and maths too [13:31] schestowitz I'm not into all this "good with maths", "good with words" thing [13:31] Mogzagain I've encountered some who are, yes [13:31] schestowitz based on some assumptions about braib structures [13:31] schestowitz it's also about expected rexognition from one's own gender group and opposite gender [13:31] schestowitz the "hacker culture" is about things that are unique [13:32] schestowitz and men punished women by compelling them to "look good" (means, spend lots of time changing.. long hair, makeup)( [13:32] Mogzagain I think ppl have all kinds of aptitudes, which they can bring to free software, whatever gender, and I think the issues on linux are a separate issue, but one that possibly affects women in challenging way e.g. emotionally, it can be very tough being around a mostly male, very code-focussed, 'find it out yourself' place, where you end up drowning [13:32] schestowitz which already imperils them [13:32] schestowitz reduces their free time [13:33] Mogzagain *ways [13:33] schestowitz my wife says, for a guy to be neglected means "ruggedly handsome", with no equivalent for female [13:33] Mogzagain lol [13:33] schestowitz "look at his beard, he's a hard worker, very focused..." [13:33] Mogzagain she can look 'windswept and interesting' though, lol [13:33] Mogzagain 'just got out of bed' look is often popular, lol [13:33] schestowitz ah, that [13:34] schestowitz anyway, it would be good to have people involves in software freedom [13:34] Mogzagain lol, at least haven't got the beard to deal with ... itchy! surely [13:34] schestowitz and at the moment many are similar ethnically and gender-wise [13:34] schestowitz 2 days ago I thought about environmental activists [13:34] schestowitz or PETA etc. [13:34] schestowitz animal rights [13:34] schestowitz lots of women there [13:34] schestowitz antiwar I'm not sure, but I think many are ex-vets [13:34] Mogzagain yes [13:35] schestowitz and army puts men in the front lines [13:35] schestowitz and that's not because "they're good at keyboards" [13:35] Mogzagain I'm not really involved in anything except art, tbh, and at home; location is quite cut off [13:36] schestowitz the large corporations alleged that language is the barrier, like gendered words and terminology [13:36] schestowitz but women I know mock and detect that assumption [13:36] *rianne__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [13:36] schestowitz which tech giants exploit to blame comminty-oriented folks [13:36] Mogzagain I think if ppl just be who they are, respecting themselves and others, it can all work out [13:36] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [13:36] schestowitz to demean those who work for no pay, as id large companies have no sexists among their ranks [13:36] Mogzagain big tech tries to inflame and divide all the time! [13:36] Mogzagain terrible! [13:37] Mogzagain as does the mainstream news [13:37] schestowitz yes, it is deliberate [13:37] schestowitz we have memos [13:37] schestowitz inside docs [13:37] schestowitz they have several points on the list, how to derail [13:37] schestowitz we talked about this here yesterdat [13:37] Mogzagain I think big tech like nothing better than e.g. twitter flame wars, or basically any big social site having flame wars ... all that data and conflict! [13:38] schestowitz mainstream news plays off genders and races against one another, but that's centuries-old [13:38] Mogzagain and so much good work, and positive comms, could have happened in that time that was wasted in division and feeding big tech [13:38] schestowitz esp. when the goal is to distract from financial inequality [13:38] schestowitz twitter is awful [13:38] schestowitz I'm quitting/have quit it [13:39] Mogzagain yes, it could be anything they use, as long as it sets ppl against each other and distracts them [13:39] schestowitz and I tell everyone who asked, DON'T EVEN START (like smoking) [13:39] schestowitz not because of divisiveness necessarily, there are many reasons [13:39] schestowitz even better reasons [13:39] Mogzagain yes, best to not get onto social media really ... thankfully, leaving it can become surprisingly easy at a certain stage [13:39] schestowitz we call it social control media [13:40] schestowitz a phrase that caught on [13:40] Mogzagain privacy, not letting that data or profiling happen [13:40] schestowitz many use it now, even Wikileaks used it [13:40] schestowitz social control media works along 3 lines [13:40] Mogzagain hopefully free software comms get more and more popular, especially as ppl are getting more concerned about how invasive big tech is [13:40] schestowitz survey (surveillance) [13:40] schestowitz misinform (propaganda) [13:40] schestowitz control conversation (censor/manipulate) [13:41] Mogzagain you nailed it ... that's all these horrible companies are focussed on [13:41] schestowitz their means for achieving that is "screen time" and channels between people [13:41] schestowitz those are not new tactics [13:41] schestowitz but Twitter, Facebook etc. put it all at the palm of one umbrella [13:41] Mogzagain yes, I was watching RMS clips earlier, and clicked to the fsf page about what the various big companies do, and it's even worse than it used to be ... backdoors everywhere! [13:41] schestowitz armies used to do this [13:41] schestowitz e.g. after occupying a country [13:42] Mogzagain such disregard and disrespect for users [13:42] schestowitz you can inflame sectarian wars that way [13:42] Mogzagain yes [13:42] schestowitz if there's a group or political party you don't like, you make it not exist [13:42] schestowitz because everything is not "in the social network" [13:43] Mogzagain it's a real shame, as ppl not being as divided can exchange lots of good stuff, and make some real progress [13:43] schestowitz and then you ghost or shadow -an [13:43] schestowitz to obscure people's already-limited vision of the world [13:43] schestowitz Mogzagain: they get hits [13:43] schestowitz visibility [13:43] schestowitz that's the "drug" [13:43] Mogzagain yes, the dreaded AI, although I read something the other day saying that AI even struggles to clarify how it got from A to B [13:43] schestowitz they make it addictive [13:43] schestowitz not with so-called 'phones' [13:43] schestowitz people cannot easily "switch off" [13:44] schestowitz so it becomes like a computer game [13:44] Mogzagain yes, social media feeds the ego, and gets ppl dependent, like a drug, on 'likes' and empty attention a lot of the time [13:44] schestowitz "AI" is media hype [13:44] schestowitz it's nothing new [13:44] schestowitz they just mean "computer logic" [13:44] schestowitz or "conditional statements" in code [13:44] schestowitz "of/else" statement [13:44] Mogzagain yes, ppl let themselves get sucked into the matrix [13:44] schestowitz "if female" then "serve X" else "Y" [13:45] schestowitz that's "Hey Hi" (AI) to them [13:45] Mogzagain and these devices cause physical issues too ... neck problems, allsorts, too [13:45] schestowitz meanwhile some of us get other things done [13:45] schestowitz and the social control media already rot [13:45] Mogzagain yes, they like to try to make ppl fear AI, but whenever I read about it, it sounds pretty dumb [13:45] schestowitz They only attain growth by spreading to more countries [13:45] schestowitz like drug lords opening up to more markets [13:45] schestowitz where "Facebook" IS "the Internet" [13:46] schestowitz zero-rating and all [13:46] schestowitz "AI" is meaningless in most articles [13:46] Mogzagain yes, it's great to be so free of loads of bad stuff ... reading that fsf page of e.g. addictive, corrupt, surveillance ... nothing of it do I do, yay! [13:46] schestowitz they don't talk of machine learning [13:46] schestowitz you can ignore it like "the cloud" [13:46] schestowitz it usually just means server somewhere [13:46] schestowitz something you connect to remotely [13:47] schestowitz Mogzagain: are you good at making drawings of known people? [13:47] Mogzagain yes, the ego gets in there, I think, and ppl build stuff up far more than it is [13:47] schestowitz (I am not good at that) [13:47] Mogzagain I've done the odd portrait, yes [13:48] schestowitz it's hard to find portrays of Free software people [13:48] schestowitz those barely exist [13:48] schestowitz except maybe few of RMS [13:48] Mogzagain Tend more to nature or something, but I was wondering if it was allowed to do a painting of RMS [13:48] Mogzagain you've written RMS, as I typed him [13:48] schestowitz because with the beard and long hair he has a unique look [13:48] Mogzagain I'm not keen on linus, greg, etc, but RMS I'll admire for the rest of my life [13:48] schestowitz I think personifying the issues can be bad [13:49] schestowitz in the EPO it used to be Battistelli [13:49] Mogzagain he does, and I think he's awesome [13:49] schestowitz and now they have a different president/face [13:49] schestowitz so it's easy to lose sight of underlying issues [13:49] schestowitz I'm thinking what can be drawn [13:49] schestowitz which I cannot get from cost-free stock photos we use [13:50] Mogzagain I should add that I really am only interested in painting RMS, tbh. So many other main ppl really pee me off. [13:50] schestowitz http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Mono [13:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mono - Techrights [13:50] schestowitz see the caricature at the top [13:50] schestowitz those are good because they convey several key points [13:50] Mogzagain There's of course a penguin painting can happen, lol, and I was thinking of a camera/spy stuff too [13:50] schestowitz and yet so that with simplicity [13:51] Mogzagain I see; the trojan horse [13:51] schestowitz if camera/spy stuff, then it's worth highlighting free/libre software as the solution [13:51] schestowitz Apple has a marketing/billboard campaign here now [13:51] schestowitz where they show people covering their face with a phone [13:51] schestowitz "iPhone is privacy" [13:52] schestowitz but those phones are double-sided camerass [13:52] schestowitz so the whole thing is worse than satire [13:52] Mogzagain I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't say that the best, and only, way I'll be able to contribute is just sending along anything relevant, and which is aligned with the kind of things I paint. I don't want to keep refusing stuff, but do want art to be enjoyed. [13:52] schestowitz because their privacy is worst harmed or most harmed by those location-tracked (with gyroscope) microphone with multiple cameras on it, plus wifi, gs, bluetooth [13:53] schestowitz we need to explain to people that rejecting all those things, esp. proprietary, is where they need to look, not "apple promises privacy" [13:53] Mogzagain the camera/spy stuff, yes, as with the lock painting, I always like to bring in what's positive as the strong focus [13:53] Mogzagain I have some ideas about the camera lens and eyes etc [13:53] Mogzagain have you seen the apple watch cameras that are being added? [13:53] schestowitz maybe associate it with hard drugs [13:53] Mogzagain a selfie one and one to film others! [13:54] Mogzagain seriously creepy, and no regard for anyone around the dumbo wearing the apple watch [13:54] schestowitz [13:53] have you seen the apple watch cameras that are being added? [13:54] schestowitz I only foresaw that [13:54] Mogzagain someone could film a girl, do an image search online, and find out her details! [13:54] schestowitz and made joke about people wearing that while "number 2" [13:54] Mogzagain or with a kid! [13:54] schestowitz and Apple gets footage [13:55] schestowitz BTW, Google CCTVGlasses was no better [13:55] schestowitz those were CCTV on users legs [13:55] schestowitz going into places and filming for another country without authorisation [13:55] Mogzagain just terrible; how disgusting that apple don't care that their devices can harm ppl in those ways [13:55] schestowitz with Amazon "doorbells" those don't have the same moobility [13:55] schestowitz *mobolity [13:55] schestowitz *mobility [13:55] Mogzagain and notice their advertising didn't have any photos of ppl along the bottom of the page ... a dog, landscapes ... but no ppl [13:56] Mogzagain so the KNOW that this can be an issue [13:56] schestowitz but this is why Microsoft et al cannot be our sole focus [13:56] schestowitz if Microsoft was bankrupt later today, we'd still need to get to work urgently [13:56] Mogzagain yes, someone could point these cameras anywhere, and no permission to do so [13:56] schestowitz against many other things [13:56] Mogzagain *they know [13:57] schestowitz that was a decade back [13:57] schestowitz I sort of predicted Google Maps 2 decades ago [13:57] schestowitz It was not hard to predict [13:57] schestowitz it was doable already, given enough budget [13:57] Mogzagain I saw MS have assessed that open source has 700 dependencies ... bit creepy that, in their own words, they did this 'deep dive' to check out all that [13:57] schestowitz for Google, from Wall Street and Pentagon etc. [13:57] schestowitz Later they started scanning MAC addresses of people's routers [13:58] Mogzagain it really needs ppl en masse to be awake and aware about the gross levels of disregard for ppl's privacy, and to vote with their feet ... not buying the products, not the subscriptions or signing up online to things, etc [13:58] schestowitz FSF rarely talks about it [13:58] schestowitz it's not the FSF's focus [13:58] schestowitz more like EFF's [13:58] schestowitz but those issues are connected [13:58] schestowitz unlike vegetarianism say... [13:59] Mogzagain yes, EFF is certainly a lot more active [13:59] schestowitz so an FSF that overlooks some of those other issues would not be as effective as can be [13:59] schestowitz FSF is slow [13:59] schestowitz stagnant [13:59] schestowitz hardly any activism or even writings [13:59] schestowitz not sure what they do all day tbh [13:59] Mogzagain yes, so it's very important to focus on who and what does care and do something ● Dec 06 [14:00] schestowitz a few of us at techrights manage to produce more publicly-visible things; I know FSF does loads more behind the scenes [14:00] schestowitz eff has other issues [14:00] schestowitz it has to be careful who to criticise [14:00] Mogzagain yes, that's cool, and, increasingly, it really is about the ppl, beyond organisations [14:00] schestowitz for fear of 'offending' members and sponsors [14:01] schestowitz who are the lifeline, in the long run (they already stashed 40 million in the bank) [14:01] schestowitz they could end up like mozilla, aimless and collapsing [14:01] Mogzagain a shame, as with Blender etc. corporate money never leads to anywhere good it seems [14:02] schestowitz Nope [14:02] schestowitz we started watching lots of Blender videos [14:02] schestowitz Blender isn't corrupted yet [14:02] schestowitz but if it grows, opportunists will try to co-opt it [14:02] schestowitz one first step might be to oust its founder [14:02] schestowitz by engineering a scandal [14:03] schestowitz then use the scandal to split the company/contributors [14:03] schestowitz and "ride in to the rescue" as a sponsor [14:03] schestowitz when they lack a strong and charismatic person like Ton [14:03] Mogzagain btw, one idea I had for an image was possibly a bit creepy, so just to run it by you ... it could be effective in new ppl maybe waking up a bit more, but I thought some of kind of terminator robot, but in a familiar setting, to really bring it home to not support e.g. IoT etc [14:03] schestowitz sounds good [14:03] Mogzagain if Blender stay in their integrity, that's awesome! [14:03] schestowitz but very 'maintreamy' [14:04] schestowitz robots like these are more hypothetical a risk [14:04] Mogzagain and glad it sounds okay. I've got a few ideas, so will get those to you as and when I can. [14:04] schestowitz drones are existing already [14:04] schestowitz boston dynamics makes some animal-like robots [14:04] schestowitz with body-mounted guns in the long run [14:04] schestowitz human form is bad for robots [14:04] schestowitz it's easy for the robot to lose balance and fall [14:04] Mogzagain I suppose seeing issues with police and then ppl talk about robots replacing them, stuff like that, and I thought ppl would recognise e.g. terminator 2 [14:04] Mogzagain no worries; it would be creepy to paint anyway, lol [14:05] Mogzagain brighter things I can do [14:05] schestowitz spiders or 4-legged is more versatile when function is the aim [14:05] Mogzagain a backdrop of the statue of liberty or something [14:05] schestowitz at the moment the most dangerous robot is people themselves [14:05] Mogzagain yuk, yeah, that creepy robot dog thing [14:05] schestowitz like people who walk aroudn the house "filming grandma" [14:05] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [14:06] schestowitz and then "uploading to Facebook for lols and likes" [14:06] schestowitz Based on a true story [14:06] schestowitz my aunt [14:06] schestowitz she hated her grandkids doing that [14:06] Mogzagain yes, I firmly believe ppl have all the power and all the numbers on their side. If ppl are awake about what matters, and don't support the negative, these issues go away [14:06] schestowitz back around 2005 already [14:06] schestowitz she only wanted her privacy and dignity, not spies at the dinner table [14:06] Mogzagain yes, poor grandma ... just wanting some privacy at home! [14:07] schestowitz she died about 7 years ago [14:07] Mogzagain awww [14:07] schestowitz with dementia, years after her husband [14:07] Mogzagain sorry about that [14:07] schestowitz the kids are still socialites in FB [14:07] schestowitz filming for "likes" [14:08] schestowitz I'd link to Groklaw, but... [14:08] schestowitz it's offline [14:08] schestowitz PJ, a lady now in her 70s her reckon (maybe 80), used to write about privacy aspects [14:09] schestowitz and I think the painting needs to convey this [14:09] Mogzagain It's awful how kids grow up surrounded by invasive tech now. [14:09] schestowitz something about having the corner to think in isolation without being observed [14:09] schestowitz or being listened to [14:09] schestowitz and she cited some books about that [14:09] Mogzagain I'm not old, but just am glad to have not had that experience; more music practice back then, school work, stuff like that. [14:10] schestowitz the front page of techrights.org talks a lot about that [14:10] schestowitz in general terms, other than software freedom [14:10] Mogzagain I've looked up groklaw just now [14:10] Mogzagain they have a twitter too, lol [14:10] schestowitz maybe we should redo the front page with your paintings [14:10] schestowitz I think their twitter account was not an official one [14:10] Mogzagain hmmm, that's a cool idea ... RMS is on the front page isn't he? [14:10] schestowitz someone made that link, maybe even a bot rather than manual, to new articles there [14:11] schestowitz Mogzagain: yeah, RMS was there; I was meeting him in person several times at the time [14:11] schestowitz he was supposed to come here until corona hit [14:11] Mogzagain that's so great! [14:11] Mogzagain yes, I recall he was going to come to the UK [14:11] schestowitz public speaking is now crappy webchat [14:11] schestowitz I don't get those things [14:11] schestowitz they call those "events" [14:12] schestowitz but what advantage over static, archived copies? [14:12] schestowitz except Q&A [14:12] schestowitz you can just watch or binge a bunch of popular old talks [14:12] schestowitz without it being "live" [14:12] Mogzagain yes, streamy stuff without a hard copy is highly irritating, I think [14:12] schestowitz Today I asked a friend whether to make videos and audio again in techrights [14:12] Mogzagain always good if ppl have backup and can rewatch and reread stuff [14:12] schestowitz we're still partly considering that [14:13] Mogzagain that sounds interesting! [14:13] schestowitz but time-consuming [14:13] schestowitz I have a question [14:13] schestowitz do you want a new site section for you [14:13] schestowitz for art? [14:14] Mogzagain I'm seeing rms, gnu, snowy mountains, edward (I've blanked on his surname!/anti-prism/x-nsa), a lock, arch, on the front page [14:14] schestowitz "TheLinuxGrandma" when she worked with us had a section for "flying chairlet" and stuff [14:14] schestowitz it was artistic work [14:14] schestowitz Mogzagain: I think maybe focus less on personifying the issues [14:14] schestowitz and people change [14:15] schestowitz faces come and go [14:15] Mogzagain Having an art section is lovely. I'm not sure how fast I could fill it up, but if ppl enjoy it, I can for example do things such as I'm seeing on the front page, some penguins, etc, basically linuxy stuff but painterly. [14:15] schestowitz In Orwell's work, the characters and issues are the same [14:15] schestowitz Winston could be born in 2002 [14:15] schestowitz or in 1952 [14:15] Mogzagain flying chairlet? [14:15] schestowitz the face does not exist [14:15] schestowitz except in the movie '1984' [14:15] oiaohm I have just done my yearly ascii art christmas cards in libreoffice. [14:15] schestowitz so we need to focus on issues/ideas/concepts [14:16] schestowitz oiaohm: can you share it? [14:16] Mogzagain sounds good, oiaohm [14:16] schestowitz we still set up a large physical xmas tree [14:16] schestowitz seeing almost nobody else in the block bothered this year [14:16] oiaohm They are limited run. Only for people I know in person who I have real world mail address of. [14:16] schestowitz and we turn all the lights on at night even though we cannot see them [14:17] Mogzagain xmas lights look good all year round, lol [14:17] oiaohm We have a small wooden xmas tree. [14:17] oiaohm That folds up every year. [14:17] schestowitz Mogzagain: http://techrights.org/category/flying-chairlet/ [14:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Flying Chairlet | Techrights [14:17] schestowitz nothing fancy, "TheLinuxGrandma" made cartoons like these [14:18] schestowitz I know her real name, but she likes privacy [14:18] schestowitz they were in a book publishing company [14:18] Mogzagain nice clean art; very good! [14:18] oiaohm And its not one of these horrible nightmares https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/christmas/targets-89-wooden-christmas-tree-slammed-as-an-eyesore/news-story/bea840d0e1f9ecaacdd84d2e1ee62f42 [14:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.news.com.au | Targets $89 wooden Christmas tree slammed as an eyesore [14:18] Mogzagain she's sensible, yes to keep her name off the internet [14:19] schestowitz there are several small trees in here also, but only one very large one, though it still doesn't 'feel' like xmas this year [14:19] schestowitz Mogzagain: I have this theory [14:19] Mogzagain yes? [14:19] schestowitz about older people liking privacy [14:19] schestowitz when people are young to want to be seen [14:19] schestowitz dating, showing off, growing up [14:19] schestowitz maturing etc. [14:20] schestowitz so they share lots of things for affirmation [14:20] Mogzagain yes, often so, although you can get your introverts [14:20] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [14:20] schestowitz when people age they long for the days they had more to show off, physically in particular [14:20] Mogzagain ppl are still developing in their 20s, still finding out what they really want to do, still exploring [14:20] schestowitz but for them, the Internet does not and cannot show the "best of them: [14:20] schestowitz unless they start uploading childhood photo albums [14:20] schestowitz young kids have no notion od privacy [14:20] oiaohm That reminds me I still have to do up my christmas/anzac day Wreath for its Christmas placement and usage. [14:21] schestowitz their have photos of them uploaded since birth [14:21] schestowitz sometimes AT birth, which is perverse [14:21] schestowitz the concaine-LIKE addicts do that to them [14:21] oiaohm Please note its a Wreath I made from garden prunings. [14:21] schestowitz *cocaine [14:21] Mogzagain yes, ppl beyond 20's/30's often come to have more value for privacy, but I think a fair number of younger ppl are aware, and most likely even more so this year [14:21] schestowitz I saw people uploading videos of their parents in their deathbed [14:21] schestowitz truly awful [14:22] schestowitz so all "the Internet" remember them for is some 90s/80s on an inhalator [14:22] schestowitz stay classy I say.. [14:22] Mogzagain the AT birth is surreal! I really feel that kind of thing should be private. And maybe when the baby grows up, they'd not be comfy either with it. [14:22] schestowitz I saw yougn kids uploading nakes photos of other kids to fb [14:22] schestowitz for the "lols" [14:23] schestowitz I guess pedophiles like those idiots [14:23] Mogzagain that is terrible [14:23] oiaohm My ascii art cards are card on one side of the A4 and letter on the other and folded correctly. [14:23] Mogzagain these kind of things really need privacy respected, for sure [14:23] oiaohm So very paper effective. [14:23] schestowitz Italy has stricter laws on this, not sure why Italy [14:24] schestowitz but those are edge cases, the case for privacy can be made on another level [14:24] schestowitz though how to put that in a one-frame painting I'm not sure [14:24] schestowitz except if unoriginal [14:24] Mogzagain yes, it's shocking what some younger ppl do. apparently a youtube guy was getting viewers to do large superchats, then he'd abuse his pregnant girlfriend. he put her outside in the cold for ages, while he kept streaming, and very sadly she died. a really terrible example of how insane and heartless online can be. [14:25] Mogzagain the superchats would request how to abuse her [14:26] Mogzagain the youtuber has been sentenced to 2 years [14:26] schestowitz I saw people bullying kids at schools [14:26] schestowitz taking footage was their motivator [14:26] Mogzagain yes, madness [14:26] schestowitz I still saw one 'vlogger' who had done that yesterday [14:26] oiaohm ?? Only 2 years in prison. [14:26] schestowitz it makes people act bad [14:26] schestowitz makes cops act a little better [14:26] oiaohm Australia laws normally would not be that nice. [14:26] Mogzagain yes, just 2 years ... unbelievable! [14:27] oiaohm What country was that. [14:27] schestowitz youtubelandia [14:27] Mogzagain the youtuber is Stas Reeflay [14:28] schestowitz what's a youtuber anyway? [14:28] schestowitz They're defined by what account they set up in soem megacorp? [14:28] oiaohm Its like with Australia nude /semi photos of people under 18 being send around email, internet... that punishable offence that can be quite a few years jail alone. [14:28] schestowitz It's a jerk with a youtube account [14:28] schestowitz I often call them "person with webcam and youtube account" [14:28] schestowitz nowadays drone operators are being called "pilots" [14:28] Mogzagain the Sun's come up first in my search for the link, not that I read that ever, but just search his name and you'll see how awful ... a shocking thing for ppl. shows how depraved social media can get. [14:28] schestowitz but they never leave their chair [14:29] schestowitz Mogzagain: I saw similar "jerks with cams" [14:29] Mogzagain this guy should have had at least the rest of his life in jail; sadistic doesn't even cover it [14:29] oiaohm Depends on the drone class. Thare are some drone classes in australia where you required a pilot license. [14:29] schestowitz abused their partner [14:29] schestowitz and having chats about it with other youtube-registered assholes [14:29] schestowitz oiaohm: that's dumb [14:30] schestowitz that still doesn't make you a pilot when you operate it remoately [14:30] Mogzagain good to know Australia are taking things more seriously [14:30] schestowitz like being a chef who buys food online [14:30] schestowitz Australia started as convicts [14:30] schestowitz who were sent to a land of 'uncivilised' aboriginals [14:31] schestowitz and Aussies are notably racist [14:31] schestowitz ask people who lived there [14:31] schestowitz so the laws try to keep that under control [14:31] Mogzagain lol, pilots! steering a drone is nothing like flying a massive plane. [14:31] schestowitz it's like a computer game [14:31] schestowitz only you are staring at a real thing [14:31] schestowitz which you control with a joystick that sends commands to it [14:31] Mogzagain I've learnt something there; didn't know some drones needed a license like that. [14:32] oiaohm schestowitz: Not dumb there are jet class drones that can fly in commercial passage jet levels. Yes the license is that you know how to do all correct flying by airtraffic control and so on. [14:32] schestowitz not physically connected to the bits and parts [14:32] schestowitz just sending commands to it [14:32] schestowitz oiaohm: the altitude is low [14:32] schestowitz like helicopters sometimes [14:32] schestowitz so aviation rules for commercial jets are not so applicable [14:33] schestowitz maybe military jets, yes [14:33] schestowitz drones are really awfully nd cheap planes [14:33] schestowitz thousands of tjem crash [14:33] schestowitz even the large ones [14:33] schestowitz and they never report it [14:33] oiaohm There are some monitoring drones in Australia for really large area work that fly between 10000 to 20000 feet in Australia. [14:33] oiaohm So commercial jet airspace. [14:34] schestowitz IIRC, around 2013, over 600 had already crashed, according to bezos post (I think just before bezos bought it) [14:34] oiaohm Of course if you are operating a drone up there you better know the rules of a normal comerical jet. [14:34] oiaohm thinking most commerical jets are fly by wire these days. [14:34] schestowitz [14:33] There are some monitoring drones in Australia for really large area work that fly between 10000 to 20000 feet in Australia. [14:34] schestowitz Those would be reconnaissance [14:34] schestowitz We're talking about Predator-grade [14:34] Mogzagain get chills about if drones become the norm for deliveries; not normal or right, especially if they're crashing everywhere and stuff stolen etc [14:34] oiaohm Some are comerical for power lines and so on. [14:34] oiaohm So not milatary. [14:35] schestowitz people on the ground hear the buzzing [14:35] oiaohm schestowitz: large areas of Australia means we have some odd things. [14:35] schestowitz btw, I was 'friends' (online) with the biggest drone killer [14:35] schestowitz the one who killed over 1600 people with a drone [14:35] Mogzagain yes? [14:35] schestowitz and then blew the whistle [14:35] oiaohm USA those classes of drones would be military only. [14:35] schestowitz then he got many death threats [14:35] Mogzagain omg [14:35] schestowitz moved to Germany last I heard [14:36] schestowitz even his parents received threats [14:36] schestowitz he didn't think about that when he joined usaf [14:36] schestowitz that it can come back to haunt him as well as loved ones [14:36] schestowitz who don't get Secret Service-level protections [14:36] *inky (~inky@141.136.79.29) has joined #techrights [14:36] schestowitz there are not many drone strike whistleblowers [14:37] schestowitz I became friends with some more [14:37] schestowitz (online friends) [14:37] schestowitz under Trump nobody even talks about the drone strikes anymore [14:37] oiaohm USA still uses cluster bombs in battle that have been illegal since end of world war II by the rules of laws most countries agreed to. [14:37] oiaohm So usa miss using drones should basically be expected. [14:37] schestowitz I guess that's kind of inevitable when you elect as president a man who wants to "f* his own daughter' [14:38] schestowitz [14:37] USA still uses cluster bombs in battle that have been illegal since end of world war II by the rules of laws most countries agreed to. [14:38] schestowitz worse [14:38] schestowitz cluster bombs are banned because of civilian casualties [14:38] schestowitz inc. rescuers [14:38] Mogzagain I'll need to head off now, but thanks so much again for the correction, and glad the art was useful. As in email, I can get some stuff to you when I can; I'll just keep with generic linuxy stuff, or see what kind of things are on articles and stuff. Have a good rest of the day all. [14:39] schestowitz unexploded ordinance of small scale [14:39] schestowitz when I covered drones a lot 10-7 years ago they did multi-tap strikes [14:39] schestowitz just "to make sure" [14:39] schestowitz so the rescuers would not approach the scene [14:39] schestowitz those who did would be drone by the second or third strike [14:39] schestowitz iirc, sometimes they even struck 4 times in a row [14:39] schestowitz suicide bombers use that tactic [14:39] schestowitz detonate [14:40] schestowitz wait [14:40] schestowitz then detonate again [14:40] *Mogzagain has quit (Quit: Leaving) [14:40] schestowitz and sometimes more die the second time around [14:40] schestowitz that's the sort of thing Obama era drone strikes did [14:40] schestowitz then they 'drones' the media [14:41] schestowitz and nobody was left to report on drone strikes under Trump [14:41] schestowitz now it's just... "normal"... [14:41] oiaohm There is a difference between using a drone for target strike on a party and being a USA asshole. [14:41] schestowitz the "secret war" as they used to call these... [14:41] schestowitz "clandestine"... "don't ask questions".... "let the adults manage it"... "they know what they're doing" [14:41] oiaohm Multi tap strikes is a really good way to have the population of the area hate you. [14:42] schestowitz Israel does the tap differently [14:42] schestowitz small ordinnace first [14:42] schestowitz as warning [14:42] schestowitz then a 500lb/1000lb blockbuster [14:42] oiaohm Not that it really works either. [14:42] schestowitz sometimes shot from a place like 20KM away [14:42] schestowitz then they tell the media they "Warned" the people [14:42] schestowitz not with leaflets [14:43] schestowitz but with "ethical strikes" [14:43] schestowitz "good bombs".... for "Warning" [14:43] oiaohm small ordinnace first is a historic way to make sure your targeting is correct before you send the big one. [14:43] schestowitz as if the terrorists or targets don't get the warning too [14:43] oiaohm So yes that small than big does reduce miss targeting. [14:43] schestowitz the actual targets are likely to be more sensitive and impervious actually [14:43] oiaohm But its still not the best plan. [14:43] schestowitz because they already know they're likely targets [14:47] oiaohm There are such things are good bombs but they are insanely rare. It warped history of particular large bombs shells being filled with food/medical supplies instead of explosves. So that unexploded round in fact being something useful. [14:48] oiaohm Also they got nicknamed loto bombs for very good reason. [14:49] schestowitz https://twitter.com/RicoReport/status/1335583963356786688 [14:49] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@RicoReport: @saifedean @MrHodl she is a woman.. Billy Gayeeeets and his man wife are both hiding in plain sight. Fact : Majori https://t.co/tKF50dy5Hh [14:49] schestowitz " [14:49] schestowitz she is a woman.. Billy Gayeeeets and his man wife are both hiding in plain sight. [14:49] schestowitz Fact : Majority of elite rich deep state criminals have men for wives, but he is a woman that was groomed by his mommy, and helped steal Microsoft from #Kildall http://techrights.org/2020/01/05/history-canceled/ [14:49] schestowitz " [14:49] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Death of Gary Kildall Remains a Mystery to This Date | Techrights [14:49] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [14:51] oiaohm I like the Australia one of that 303 rounds would go bad if left on ground so due use any that were dropped. Really reason was internionally droping 303 rounds packed with high exploves that if you used in a normal gun would blow the complete breach out. [14:53] schestowitz https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-2008-3-1-reinstall-macos-or-ubuntu-linux.2273705/ [14:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-forums.macrumors.com | Mac Pro 2008 (3,1) -- reinstall MacOS, or Ubuntu linux? | MacRumors Forums ● Dec 06 [15:01] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [15:23] oiaohm https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-butterfly-magic-pro-apple-design That mac pro 2008 is before apple screwed the keyboard over. [15:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | The saga of Apples bad butterfly MacBook keyboards is finally over - The Verge [15:23] oiaohm and before they made SSD not replaceable. [15:29] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [15:34] schestowitz just now: https://truthout.org/articles/trump-has-pushed-ahead-with-drone-strikes-putting-us-citizens-in-the-crosshairs/ [15:34] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-truthout.org | Trump Has Pushed Ahead With Drone Strikes, Putting US Citizens in the Crosshairs [15:47] superkuh Bush, Obama, and Trump. [15:47] superkuh I'm sure Biden will too. [15:47] superkuh Oh, nice, this article actually addresses that immediately. [15:49] superkuh Funny how the push to get rid of the 2001 AUMF was dropped as soon as the election started up. [15:50] superkuh How does biden stand? He was part of the disposition matrix during the Obama presidency. He already participated. [15:58] *aindilis has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) ● Dec 06 [16:38] MinceR (cat) https://ircz.de/p/2007183 [16:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4762532) [16:58] *kupi has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) ● Dec 06 [17:04] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: If the president is ordering "targeted killings" of Americans abroad, imagine what's actually going on in the US that's meant to look like "random crime" or "natural causes". [17:05] DaemonFC[m] How hard would it be, if there's a preacher in Chicago you don't like because he's a Communist Muslim or something, to have a staged "drive by" using the cops or something dressed up like gang members? [17:05] DaemonFC[m] Or whatever Blackwater calls themselves these days. [17:06] schestowitz https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/12/04/185241 [17:06] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-soylentnews.org | Linux Foundation Does Not Eat its Own Dogfood - SoylentNews [17:06] schestowitz "Blogger Daniel Lange takes a look at the Linux Foundation's 2020 annual report, and concludes that it was produced with Adobe, which is not available on Linux. Further sleuthing by a commentator reveals that the original was created on Microsoft Word. Stock images used for illustration mostly show Apple MacBooks. This is what you get for a $148 million annual budget." [17:06] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: The Biden win is not really a win for the US except to the extent that it's a return to something less horrible. [17:10] DaemonFC[m] That's only because we seem to have hit bedrock with Trump on how many unconstitutional nightmares could be going on at once. [17:14] schestowitz https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/opinion/cc-op-community-voices-120320-20201203-j6r3onz5cbc2ppxx5imlujdem4-story.html [17:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.baltimoresun.com | Clark: Have we waited too long? Pearl Harbor, deniers and climate change | COMMENTARY - Carroll County Times [17:21] *tdemin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:22] MinceR (audio:important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB34-qX_b4s [17:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Composers Play - "Heretic" Coop with Kevin Schilder! - Episode 1 - YouTube [17:23] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:23] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:23] DaemonFC[m] It was pretty clear that even though Trump couldn't overturn enough states to win that he was trying to get it down to as small a lead as possible. [17:23] DaemonFC[m] At that point he could try to corrupt some electors. [17:24] DaemonFC[m] If you can get it down to 270 and all you have to do is make one of them a deal that they'd take to switch their vote, you can still throw it to the House. [17:25] DaemonFC[m] So I was worried that we'd end up in a situation where Biden won but only by one or two electors, and then Trump would be offering all of them whatever it took to get them to switch their votes. [17:26] DaemonFC[m] I'm not really concerned that any states are going to try to reverse their own results. They're all certified at this point, and the safe harbor date is Tuesday. [17:26] DaemonFC[m] Which means that after Tuesday, if a state tried something like that, it wouldn't flip to Trump electors. Federal law says that they would just get no electors seated at all. [17:27] DaemonFC[m] There's nothing in the laws of any states where Trump is trying to get public officials to commit crimes on his behalf that would allow them to do anything of the sort, but even if they tried, after Tuesday it would just go from Biden electors to no electors at all. [17:29] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [17:29] DaemonFC[m] There's theoretically 6 days between Tuesday and the electoral college meeting where the federal courts could do something, but the only case that Trump is even trying to appeal involved about 10,000 ballots in Pennsylvania, so there's no case in front of them where they could go further than ordering 10,000 votes in Pennsylvania to be thrown out, and they'd have to torture the law to do that, and it wouldn't change [17:29] DaemonFC[m] anything. [17:29] DaemonFC[m] So there's no hint that they even plan to hear this. [17:30] DaemonFC[m] They have too many pending cases that do matter on their docket. [17:30] DaemonFC[m] The current count is like 41 losses in court and 1 win for the Trump campaign, but the win was so small it doesn't matter. [17:31] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [17:31] DaemonFC[m] Judges are beyond annoyed, because the campaign's tactics were apparently to just keep amending their complaints and switching out lawyers and asking for delays and leaves to amend to drag it out and not get it thrown out until it was too late for the states to certify. [17:31] DaemonFC[m] But that didn't happen....anywhere. [17:32] DaemonFC[m] They knew that the very best they would get would be a preliminary injunction and their goal was to filibuster judges until after the safe harbor deadline. [17:33] DaemonFC[m] This is bordering on contempt. If anything, the judges showed significant restraint that most people who were openly trying to defraud the court would never get. [17:38] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:39] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [17:44] *tdemin (~tdemin@lan.tdem.in) has joined #techrights [17:46] MinceR https://xkcd.com/2266/ [17:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Leap Smearing [17:50] *aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights [17:52] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [17:58] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [17:59] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Dec 06 [18:12] MinceR https://xkcd.com/2272/ [18:12] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Ringtone Timeline [18:23] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [18:34] *randomgry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has joined #techrights [18:34] *gry has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:36] *randomgry is now known as gry [18:38] *KREYREEEN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [18:41] *KREYREN has quit (Quit: Leaving) [18:58] schestowitz Should we do another UPC piece? [18:58] schestowitz zoobab: lots of lies today [18:58] schestowitz and the past few days [18:58] schestowitz the lobby is elated [18:58] schestowitz same lobbyists as before e.g. http://techrights.org/2020/07/31/managing-ip-fake-news/ [18:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Managing IP Still Champions Fake News for Team UPC | Techrights ● Dec 06 [19:00] search_social there are so many articles about who is just a corporate pawn it would probably be easier to make a list of who is NOT [19:00] MinceR (cat) https://ircz.de/p/20071736 [19:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4761395) [19:01] MinceR "list of people not yet known to be corporate pawns at UPC"? [19:01] schestowitz search_social: true [19:01] schestowitz but it's trickier [19:01] schestowitz as not many people know those lists [19:01] schestowitz they just 'google things' [19:01] MinceR though a list of who _is_ could include which corporation they're pawns of :> [19:01] MinceR and citations [19:02] schestowitz that would be a big project [19:02] schestowitz as sometimes you lack articles explaining those sorts of things [19:02] schestowitz so one option is to make an index for each publisher [19:03] schestowitz http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Watchtroll and http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/IAM for example work closely with Microsoft [19:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Watchtroll - Techrights [19:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IAM - Techrights [19:03] schestowitz maybe we need a new wiki page for eff, ten sfc [19:03] schestowitz *then [19:03] schestowitz figosdev has scripts to generate such lists [19:03] schestowitz but he has not run them in about a year [19:03] schestowitz maybe it's time to have a go at it and rerun for 2020 archives as well [19:06] schestowitz AFAIK, zoobab is still preparing his constitutional complaint, with about a week left to complete [19:07] schestowitz I have half a dozen BS "pieces" and unsure if writing a rebuttal to them would just give them more visibility, proving to be counter-productive [19:07] schestowitz tbh, I'd rather focus on epo leaks tonight [19:08] schestowitz and then some free software advocacy [19:08] schestowitz seeing that UPC cannot go on regardless [19:08] schestowitz due to brexit for starters [19:08] schestowitz It's a big like suffocating a corpse [19:23] *KREYREEEN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:26] MinceR https://xkcd.com/2304/ [19:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Preprint [19:53] DaemonFC[m] The "tech media" has devolved into buzzword bullshit bingo. [19:53] DaemonFC[m] It's a'' "sponsored content" now. [19:53] DaemonFC[m] *all [19:54] oiaohm https://dylanbeattie.net/songs/framework.html this song I always find fun. [19:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Were Gonna Build a Framework : dylanbeattie.net [19:54] schestowitz [19:53] It's a'' "sponsored content" now. [19:54] schestowitz that too [19:54] schestowitz there are variants [19:54] schestowitz LF pays sites for puff pieces also [19:54] schestowitz sometimes with disclosure included [19:54] schestowitz something without [19:55] oiaohm There are a stack of different ways to pay for puff piecees while not looking directly connected either. [19:55] oiaohm Fun of PR companies. [19:55] schestowitz true [19:55] schestowitz very true [19:55] schestowitz I keep mentioning that [19:56] schestowitz like buying ads [19:56] schestowitz selling "consulting" [19:56] schestowitz buying "studies" [19:56] schestowitz so they set up parallel operations for bribe collections [19:56] schestowitz and the PR agencies basically launder the money that way [19:57] oiaohm Most fun one is the fake industry body stunt. [19:57] oiaohm That turned up quite a few times with right to repair. [19:59] DaemonFC[m] https://www.thedailybeast.com/michigan-ruling-rudy-giuliani-touted-as-a-big-win-actually-concerned-a-local-marijuana-measure [19:59] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thedailybeast.com | Michigan Ruling Rudy Giuliani Touted as a Big Win Actually Concerned a Local Marijuana Measure ● Dec 06 [20:00] schestowitz Don't tell Carl Farmer [20:00] schestowitz or he might never get it on ever again [20:01] DaemonFC[m] https://www.thedailybeast.com/president-donald-trump-loves-disastrous-ballot-witness-melissa-carone [20:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thedailybeast.com | President Donald Trump Loves Disastrous Ballot Witness Melissa Carone [20:01] schestowitz he loves women who lie [20:01] schestowitz except those whom he raped [20:01] schestowitz then he calls them liars [20:02] schestowitz and hates them [20:05] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: there is a fairly good way to limit marijuana start growing the Australian GM crop of industrial hemp. Result of those two crossing is low yield THC plants. [20:06] oiaohm I can plant industrial hemp as a garden plant. The DNA modification means it had a different leaf pattern to normal marijuana as well as insanely low THC. [20:12] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [20:18] schestowitz wow https://ballotpedia.org/Jo_Jorgensen_presidential_campaign,_2020 [20:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ballotpedia.org | Jo Jorgensen presidential campaign, 2020 - Ballotpedia [20:18] schestowitz I didn't know she was the party leader this time around [20:18] schestowitz the media pretended she did not even exist [20:18] schestowitz in 2016 they at least pretended that at least 4 parties existed [20:19] schestowitz "She was the Libertarian vice presidential nominee in 1996" [20:19] schestowitz From Illinois [20:19] schestowitz "She worked as a marketing representative for IBM before launching a software sales business in South Carolina in 1983. " [20:19] schestowitz Former IBM [20:20] schestowitz but wants "small government" [20:20] schestowitz "After taking a sabbatical to raise her children, Jorgensen started a consulting company and earned her Ph.D. in industrial and organizational psychology from Clemson University in 2002" [20:28] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [20:30] DaemonFC[m] In a first past the post system, all small parties do is potentially sabotage the major party on their general side of the spectrum. [20:31] DaemonFC[m] That's why the Republicans were giving Howie Hawkins money and lawyers. [20:31] DaemonFC[m] Maybe the Russians too. Stein and Putin and all that. [20:31] DaemonFC[m] There's no reason why Putin would invite someone who couldn't win election to come "talk policy". [20:32] DaemonFC[m] What they were doing was discussing how to use the Green Party to sabotage Clinton and get Trump elected. [20:32] DaemonFC[m] Probably how much Russian money would be waiting for her in an offshore bank account after she did. ● Dec 06 [21:10] *brett98 (183c3622@c-24-60-54-34.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #techrights [21:10] brett98 read about gnew on tech rights -- totally down with that [21:12] *brett98 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:15] DaemonFC[m] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/world/rudy-giuliani-covid.html [21:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Rudy Giuliani Has Tested Positive For The Coronavirus, Trump Says - The New York Times [21:19] DaemonFC[m] Previously, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/06/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-masks-coronavirus-fox-news [21:19] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theguardian.com | Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani coughs his way through anti-mask interview | Rudy Giuliani | The Guardian [21:25] schestowitz orange karma [21:27] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: it'll be over 1000 deaths this sunday [21:27] schestowitz TX not reporting yet [21:27] schestowitz 230 in uk https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 [21:28] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bbc.co.uk | Covid-19 in the UK: How many coronavirus cases are there in your area? - BBC News [21:42] schestowitz oiaohm: "Please fix the slide deck link it points to a local file instead of the website." [21:42] schestowitz https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm\ [21:42] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm\ ) [21:42] schestowitz https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm [21:42] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Intel + Microsoft Continue Work On Replacing More SMM "Black Boxes" With PRM - Phoronix Forums ● Dec 06 [22:10] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [22:11] MinceR https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Belgium%20Barbeque [22:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.urbandictionary.com | Urban Dictionary: Belgium Barbeque [22:12] schestowitz Orban again? [22:13] schestowitz Don't tell me it's (blow) Jobbik [22:20] MinceR it's fideath, not lobbik [22:20] *xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.106) has joined #techrights [22:24] schestowitz wait till the throw a coalition party [22:26] MinceR they probably won't [22:26] MinceR MHM split out of lobbik and they're fideath's best friends now [22:27] MinceR lobbik wants to replace fidSS in the EPP [22:27] MinceR so they're more moderate than fideath now [22:28] MinceR (also known as the feed-ass crew) [22:29] DaemonFC[m] I might grab the Fedora respin ISO. [22:29] DaemonFC[m] Linux 5.9 probably supports the new laptop better than that OEM 5.6 kernel in Ubuntu 20.04. Here we go again, maybe. [22:30] schestowitz try debian bullseye [22:30] schestowitz https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/12/msg00001.html [22:30] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | Debian Installer Bullseye Alpha 3 release [22:37] DaemonFC[m] " Since Apple's new M1 CPU seems to execute emulated x86 code faster than Intel and AMD executes native x86 code, maybe it is time for Intel and AMD just to ditch x86 and build a ARM CPU or a RISC-V CPU with emulation for x86? " [22:37] DaemonFC[m] Where is the proof? [22:39] superkuh Apple hype has never been related to data. [22:47] schestowitz started as anti-IBM [22:47] schestowitz IBM: think [22:47] schestowitz Apple: think different [22:48] schestowitz Microsoft: stop thinking [22:48] schestowitz Apple: stop Microsoft [22:48] schestowitz GNU: stop all the liars above [22:48] schestowitz of course it's back full circle coz IBM bougth Red Hat [22:48] schestowitz and now shoves proprietary-like crap into distros [22:49] schestowitz it also develops on Microsoft servers [22:49] schestowitz While Microsoft says it loves Linux [22:49] schestowitz Hannibal loves Clarice Starling. [22:54] MinceR Hannibal Smith? [22:55] schestowitz just Hannibal Hannibal [22:55] MinceR Hannibal Barca? [22:55] schestowitz Ariadne: any success getting in touch with href (by anyone)? [22:56] DaemonFC[m] Hannibal actually did like her. [22:57] DaemonFC[m] He hated rude people and if you were a rude person then he was much more likely to eat you. [22:57] schestowitz > https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new-raspberry-pi-os-release-december-2020/ [22:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.raspberrypi.org | New Raspberry Pi OS release December 2020 - Raspberry Pi [22:58] schestowitz > [22:58] schestowitz > [22:58] schestowitz >> Weve updated the Chromium browser to version 84 [22:58] schestowitz > [22:58] schestowitz > Raspberry Spi OS [22:58] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: Microsoft loves Canonical [22:58] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: In his opinion, he was improving the world. [22:58] schestowitz it does not like "rude" community [22:58] schestowitz it eats what does not tolerate Microsoft monopoly [22:58] DaemonFC[m] He got rid of Dr. Chilton because he thought the guy was an asshole and a hack. [22:59] DaemonFC[m] He ate a member of an orchestra for playing off key. ● Dec 06 [23:00] DaemonFC[m] Then there was Paul Krendler, who was messing up Clarice Starling's career at the FBI. [23:02] *KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:02] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [23:05] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705656.jpg [23:11] schestowitz blue-red [23:11] schestowitz maybe she was not attractive enough [23:12] schestowitz [22:28] (also known as the feed-ass crew) [23:12] schestowitz sounds similar for sure [23:12] schestowitz what a bunch of arses [23:33] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: https://twitter.com/dennis0805a/status/1335630303621242882 [23:33] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@dennis0805a: @schestowitz #Trump Supporters and #MAGA Supporters became the "Snowflakes". LMFAO!!! 33 Days After Trump's Los https://t.co/AOC6ktkWRg [23:33] schestowitz " [23:33] schestowitz #Trump Supporters and #MAGA Supporters became the "Snowflakes". LMFAO!!! [23:33] schestowitz Rolling on the floor laughing [23:33] schestowitz Rolling on the floor laughing [23:33] schestowitz Rolling on the floor laughing [23:33] schestowitz 33 Days After Trump's Loss, Trump and his Supporters are still crying. [23:33] schestowitz This is just so much fun to watch. [23:33] schestowitz " [23:33] schestowitz Carl Farmer :-) [23:36] MinceR (cat) (audio:unimportant) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/09/13/653f3023d95db394.mp4 [23:48] DaemonFC[m] Felta Carl Farmer [23:49] schestowitz turns from scientist (Thompson) to scientologist [23:49] schestowitz and then voted for very stable genius [23:49] schestowitz the brain goes last - famous saying [23:55] DaemonFC[m] Oh no, he was mixed up in Scientology and listening to Rush Limbaugh 30 years ago. [23:56] schestowitz when is Rush on his death bed? [23:56] schestowitz I bet the lump has outgrown his little brain already [23:57] schestowitz https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-giving-rush-limbaugh-medal-freedom-was-controversial-fitting-ncna1132121 [23:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nbcnews.com | Trump giving Rush Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom was controversial and fitting [23:57] DaemonFC[m] Sony was smart enough to keep making actual things. [23:57] schestowitz Combined IQ of (covid)19 [23:57] DaemonFC[m] Thomson decided to become a patent troll and most of their revenue was MP3, which was obviously not going to work forever. [23:57] schestowitz Sony makes them in mainland china afaik [23:58] DaemonFC[m] The RCA brand is a joke now. [23:58] DaemonFC[m] You might see it on some total crap Android tablet at Walmart for $49. [23:58] schestowitz I bought an RCA tuner in the US and it did not last long [23:58] schestowitz I forgot what happened to it [23:59] schestowitz they used to make fine TVs, I think [23:59] schestowitz made with real materials [23:59] schestowitz not the cheapest available [23:59] schestowitz and you could, back then, actually reppair appliance [23:59] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, they had everything in the US shut down by 2004.