Join us now at the IRC channel.
-->amarsh04 (~amarsh04@124-169-186-9.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 00:45 | |
-->gde34 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 01:25 | |
<--gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Jan 07 01:25 | |
<--amarsh04 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Jan 07 01:56 | |
cubexyz | XRevan86, there are some things you just can't learn in school | Jan 07 02:24 |
---|---|---|
cubexyz | I taught myself to fix TVs and laserprinters | Jan 07 02:24 |
cubexyz | buy maintainance kits, read service manuals, experiment, etc, etc | Jan 07 02:24 |
cubexyz | all that matters is the result: device fixed | Jan 07 02:25 |
cubexyz | also learning something about the operating principals is useful | Jan 07 02:25 |
cubexyz | s/principal/principle/ | Jan 07 02:26 |
cubexyz | while I'm talking about fixing stuff I have to say some of the 1980s and 1990s electronics was more durable | Jan 07 02:29 |
cubexyz | not all of it of course, but some of it | Jan 07 02:29 |
cubexyz | some of the Dell computers were surprisingly good, like GX110 | Jan 07 02:29 |
cubexyz | just didn't get very hot so it lasts a long time | Jan 07 02:30 |
MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/11/80716a2d36f9049f.jpg | Jan 07 02:35 |
danielp3344 | lolz | Jan 07 02:36 |
danielp3344 | I've decided for something to count as 'art' it at least needs to look like it took a lot of work | Jan 07 02:37 |
cubexyz | replace the word hipster with poser I'd say | Jan 07 02:38 |
scientes | XRevan86, merry christmas | Jan 07 03:07 |
DaemonFC[m] | They change your grade if you find more money. | Jan 07 03:49 |
DaemonFC[m] | College is a scam. | Jan 07 03:49 |
scientes | Dean of student involvement | Jan 07 03:59 |
scientes | Dean of homosexual studies | Jan 07 04:00 |
scientes | Dean of minorities | Jan 07 04:00 |
scientes | Professor of womens studies | Jan 07 04:00 |
scientes | DaemonFC[m], I have found that if you actually study they see you as a threat | Jan 07 04:01 |
scientes | as you might them look bad | Jan 07 04:02 |
scientes | *make them | Jan 07 04:02 |
<--Hail_Spacecake has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jan 07 04:07 | |
-->Hail_Spacecake (~weechat@lobsters/users/hailspacecake/x-84238744) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 04:08 | |
schestowitz | [03:49] <DaemonFC[m]> College is a scam. | Jan 07 04:43 |
schestowitz | when it's as expensive as it is in the US | Jan 07 04:43 |
schestowitz | free college can raise skills levels in countries | Jan 07 04:43 |
scientes | schestowitz, anything but free college (in this industrial age) ruins the culture, and the result is zero education | Jan 07 07:33 |
scientes | my neighbor brought me some christmas wine, really made my day | Jan 07 07:36 |
scientes | XRevan86, did you know that Aristophanes in _Clouds_ makes fun of Socrates? | Jan 07 07:37 |
scientes | this reminded me https://existentialcomics.com/comic/323 | Jan 07 07:37 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Plato Produces a Play - Existential Comics | Jan 07 07:37 | |
scientes | The funny thing is that I use to be that Plato | Jan 07 07:38 |
scientes | when it came to criticizing video games for not being realistic | Jan 07 07:38 |
scientes | meh, the other comics on this site are not as good | Jan 07 07:43 |
scientes | maybe its cause all these philosophers are really boring | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | like this one: "John Locke gave us one of the first modern theories of language, well before philosophy of language really took off. He more or less described language as a representation of the ideas of the speaker, rather than referring to external objects in the world. So if someone talks about a tree, the word "tree" doesn't strictly refer to a concrete object that exists, but only represents the idea of a tree in the mind of a person | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | attempting to communicate. According to this view, mistakes in understanding language are mistakes in correctly interpreting the intent or ideas of the speaker." | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | except in Gulliver's Travels, Johnathan Swift makes really good fun of all the grammer studies | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | and he is right | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | only Chomsky finially came up with something that made any sense at all, and it still has some holes | Jan 07 07:44 |
scientes | (and most people don't really get what regular languages and regular expressions are all about) | Jan 07 07:45 |
scientes | https://existentialcomics.com/comic/313 | Jan 07 07:50 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Marxist Financial Advice - Existential Comics | Jan 07 07:50 | |
scientes | ok, that one is more like it | Jan 07 07:50 |
scientes | except it is more like half of income on rent | Jan 07 07:55 |
scientes | and it is so bad that the permanent residency (green card) phamphlet apologizes for it | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | [07:33] <scientes> schestowitz, anything but free college (in this industrial age) ruins the culture, and the result is zero education | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | deplorables | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | proudly even | Jan 07 07:56 |
scientes | along with telling people to not to hitch hike | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | surrounded by the likes of them | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | stupidity is like obesity | Jan 07 07:56 |
schestowitz | it becomes normal and not shameful when it spreads like a disease into normalcy | Jan 07 07:57 |
scientes | schestowitz, i'm missing the context | Jan 07 07:57 |
scientes | <schestowitz> surrounded by the likes of them | Jan 07 07:57 |
scientes | likes of who? | Jan 07 07:57 |
scientes | other rich lazy people? | Jan 07 07:57 |
schestowitz | ignorance breeding ignorance | Jan 07 07:57 |
scientes | they are not really stupid, just lazy and ignorant | Jan 07 07:57 |
schestowitz | they cannot afford higher education | Jan 07 07:58 |
schestowitz | US colleges are too expensive | Jan 07 07:58 |
Hail_Spacecake | scientes: most people don't need to care about regular languages and regular expressions | Jan 07 07:58 |
schestowitz | nothing to do with laziness but class | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | except the colleges don't have education schestowitz | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | they are all protests against "microagressions" | Jan 07 07:58 |
schestowitz | some join the ARMY... for 'free' college | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | Hail_Spacecake, but even people in computer science | Jan 07 07:58 |
schestowitz | kill people, get education in return... | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | schestowitz, the U.S. *never* cared about education | Jan 07 07:58 |
Hail_Spacecake | I would expect a computer scientist to know what a regular expression is | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | it was only to compete with the soviet union | Jan 07 07:58 |
scientes | and once the soviet union went away, lots of science funding disappeared | Jan 07 07:59 |
Hail_Spacecake | in the sense that they can use them in practice and know a little bit of the theory at least | Jan 07 07:59 |
scientes | because there was no enemy | Jan 07 07:59 |
scientes | no competition | Jan 07 07:59 |
Hail_Spacecake | and the theory is the chomsky heirarchy | Jan 07 07:59 |
scientes | the enemy became the people again | Jan 07 07:59 |
schestowitz | i c | Jan 07 07:59 |
Hail_Spacecake | on the other hand, I don't remember exactly what all four levels of the heirarchy are offhand | Jan 07 07:59 |
scientes | Hail_Spacecake, only the bottom (regular) and top (turing complete) are important | Jan 07 07:59 |
Hail_Spacecake | regular, context-free, context-sensitive, whatever you call the one that natural language (probably) is | Jan 07 07:59 |
scientes | because the heirarchy is still lacking some stuff | Jan 07 08:00 |
scientes | Hail_Spacecake, turing complete | Jan 07 08:00 |
Hail_Spacecake | well, context-free grammars are important | Jan 07 08:00 |
Hail_Spacecake | in that most programming languages are deisgned to have CFGs for ease of parsing | Jan 07 08:00 |
scientes | except there isn't a good way to describe them formally | Jan 07 08:00 |
Hail_Spacecake | BNF doesn't work for you? | Jan 07 08:01 |
scientes | only regular expressions have a good syntax to describe them | Jan 07 08:01 |
Hail_Spacecake | I'm not sure if the standard syntax for regular expressions is good | Jan 07 08:01 |
scientes | i'm talking about something like re2 | Jan 07 08:02 |
Hail_Spacecake | I've often thought that regex notation could be better | Jan 07 08:02 |
scientes | it isn't that bad | Jan 07 08:02 |
scientes | especially if you get a editor that syntax highlights it for you | Jan 07 08:04 |
-->namber (~luca@host36-31-static.15-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 08:48 | |
<--aindilis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) | Jan 07 09:47 | |
psydroid | <cubexyz "some of the Dell computers were "> I used my Dell Latitude C600 laptop for 10 years until it finally broke. I have to see how long this similar-class but much newer HP laptop will last, it had the motherboard and the screen replaced within 6 months. But things have been good for the past 3 years or so. | Jan 07 10:29 |
scientes | 10 years! | Jan 07 10:35 |
scientes | that is impressive | Jan 07 10:35 |
scientes | geeze, my efi partition is 512mb | Jan 07 10:37 |
scientes | what a waste | Jan 07 10:37 |
scientes | i need to be like 5mb | Jan 07 10:37 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I did not know that. | Jan 07 10:38 |
scientes | what? that it is christmas? :) | Jan 07 10:39 |
XRevan86 | Neither did I read it %). | Jan 07 10:39 |
XRevan86 | scientes: No, The Clouds. | Jan 07 10:39 |
scientes | oh yes | Jan 07 10:39 |
XRevan86 | scientes: To Christmas I can only say "meh". | Jan 07 10:39 |
scientes | Aristophanes plays are excellent | Jan 07 10:39 |
scientes | XRevan86, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYYQIn_sC-4 | Jan 07 10:40 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Aristophanes' Frogs (Cambridge Greek Play 2013) - YouTube | Jan 07 10:40 | |
scientes | there others are excellent too, but the version you find on YouTube are meh | Jan 07 10:40 |
scientes | Cambridge also did Lyistrata in 2017, but they didn't put it up (booooooo) | Jan 07 10:40 |
scientes | this looks good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY88WNC_1Q | Jan 07 10:42 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Lysistrata - YouTube | Jan 07 10:42 | |
scientes | oh no that is super weird, they did women-only cast | Jan 07 10:42 |
scientes | so you have women wearing erection costumes | Jan 07 10:42 |
scientes | oh no, i'm confused | Jan 07 10:43 |
Hail_Spacecake | I wonder if anyone has done an all-male Lysistrata | Jan 07 10:46 |
scientes | ewwwww | Jan 07 10:46 |
scientes | gay lysistrata | Jan 07 10:46 |
scientes | le bumsex | Jan 07 10:46 |
scientes | a le grec | Jan 07 10:46 |
psydroid | I remember reading Aristophanes's "Clouds" (Nephelai) in Greek class | Jan 07 10:53 |
scientes | you took greek? | Jan 07 10:53 |
psydroid | my final year reading material was Sophocles's Antigone | Jan 07 10:53 |
scientes | cool | Jan 07 10:53 |
psydroid | yes | Jan 07 10:53 |
scientes | yeah, I don't like the non-funny stuff | Jan 07 10:53 |
scientes | except Plato and Homer, that is | Jan 07 10:53 |
psydroid | and Latin, but I dropped it because I already had 9 subjects for my exams | Jan 07 10:54 |
psydroid | and was doing sports, I didn't want to spend all my time on schoolwork | Jan 07 10:54 |
psydroid | we did lots of Plato and Homer as well, but in the third year | Jan 07 10:55 |
psydroid | I have the Iliad here, I still have to find some copy of the Odyssee | Jan 07 10:55 |
scientes | so could you talk to people on the street in Greece? | Jan 07 10:57 |
psydroid | I also have ##ancientgreek registered, although it's mostly a dead place as I can't spend much of my time revising it myself and the channel members mostly can't be bothered to do the minimum to get familiar with the language | Jan 07 10:57 |
scientes | (I know modern is different from ancient) | Jan 07 10:57 |
psydroid | yes, I learned Modern Greek myself during the last two years of high school as I took Ancient Greek | Jan 07 10:57 |
scientes | psydroid, and did you see that Cambridge performance is in the ancient greek? | Jan 07 10:58 |
psydroid | I spoke it yesterday actually to some Indians who used to live on Corfu | Jan 07 10:58 |
scientes | it was so hard (still havent adapted) to realize this isn't the Americas, where there is only 4 languages | Jan 07 10:59 |
psydroid | scientes, I will watch it, although I doubt I will understand much of it now | Jan 07 10:59 |
scientes | of which 2 are very similar (Spanish and Portugese) | Jan 07 10:59 |
psydroid | oh yeah | Jan 07 10:59 |
psydroid | it's a bit of a double-edged sword, though | Jan 07 10:59 |
psydroid | when I am in Amsterdam and I hear people speaking all these languages and I understand what they are all saying, it can become a bit overwhelming at times | Jan 07 11:00 |
psydroid | it's not as if you can unlearn what you once learned | Jan 07 11:00 |
scientes | hehehe, I wouldn't think of that as one of the disadvantages | Jan 07 11:00 |
scientes | I already know that people are usually talking about drivel, even if it sounds cool when you don't understand it | Jan 07 11:01 |
psydroid | what bothers me the most is that I can't seem to become really fluent in most of the languages I learned, that takes actual effort to inundate yourself in the language and the culture associated with it | Jan 07 11:02 |
scientes | and here outside of europe there are lots of people that cant communicate | Jan 07 11:03 |
psydroid | yes, that's mostly the case | Jan 07 11:03 |
scientes | psydroid, can't you just learn from books? | Jan 07 11:04 |
scientes | oh yeah, I read a book on Dutch history translated from the Dutch | Jan 07 11:06 |
psydroid | scientes, I can, that's not the issue. I just need to take the effort to focus on just 1 or 2 languages and leave the rest, but that's a "hard" thing to do | Jan 07 11:06 |
scientes | https://www.amazon.com/Dutch-Republic-Seventeenth-Century-Golden/dp/0521604605 | Jan 07 11:07 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLE | Jan 07 11:07 | |
psydroid | I will try to get hold of it | Jan 07 11:07 |
scientes | this also looks good, but it is way too expensive https://www.amazon.com/Guilds-Innovation-European-Economy-1400-1800/dp/0521153913/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1578395230&refinements=p_27%3AMaarten+Prak&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Maarten+Prak | Jan 07 11:08 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLE | Jan 07 11:08 | |
psydroid | I think this would be really interesting to read, for me at least | Jan 07 11:10 |
psydroid | https://www.amazon.com/Republican-Alternative-Netherlands-Switzerland-Compared/dp/9089640053 | Jan 07 11:10 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLE | Jan 07 11:10 | |
scientes | cool | Jan 07 11:10 |
scientes | especially now that I know he is a decent author | Jan 07 11:10 |
psydroid | yeah | Jan 07 11:11 |
scientes | https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3APrak%2C+Maarten+Roy%2C&dblist=638&fq=ln%3Adut&qt=facet_ln%3A | Jan 07 11:14 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Results for 'au:Prak, Maarten Roy,' > 'Dutch' [WorldCat.org] | Jan 07 11:14 | |
scientes | he wrote quite a few that were not translated | Jan 07 11:14 |
scientes | oh no, they were all translated | Jan 07 11:15 |
scientes | https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3APrak%2C+Maarten+Roy%2C&qt=hot_author | Jan 07 11:15 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Results for 'au:Prak, Maarten Roy,' [WorldCat.org] | Jan 07 11:15 | |
scientes | cool, I can get this on in Tblisi https://www.worldcat.org/title/early-modern-capitalism-economic-and-social-change-in-europe-1400-1800/oclc/1124366027&referer=brief_results | Jan 07 11:17 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Early modern capitalism economic and social change in Europe, 1400-1800 (eBook, 2014) [WorldCat.org] | Jan 07 11:17 | |
psydroid | I don't have that many Dutch books, but I think these may be worth it | Jan 07 11:17 |
psydroid | of course I will only order them, when I have a new job | Jan 07 11:18 |
scientes | hehe | Jan 07 11:18 |
scientes | one at a time haha | Jan 07 11:18 |
scientes | you can also just go to a library.... | Jan 07 11:18 |
psydroid | I have quite a library over here accumulated from all the places I've to over the years | Jan 07 11:18 |
psydroid | yeah | Jan 07 11:18 |
psydroid | that's what I do sometimes | Jan 07 11:18 |
scientes | I hardly ever buy books | Jan 07 11:19 |
scientes | but i did buy that one, cause I was so hungering to read in english after being in south america and unable to get english books | Jan 07 11:19 |
psydroid | are spanish books cheap in south america? | Jan 07 11:20 |
scientes | very cheap | Jan 07 11:20 |
psydroid | I asked a friend from uruguay once and he told me he didn't know | Jan 07 11:20 |
scientes | i got La Vualva El Mundo en 80 Dias for like 20 bolivianos | Jan 07 11:21 |
scientes | or $3 | Jan 07 11:21 |
psydroid | that's how I bought quite a few computer books in English in India when I went there or when my mother went | Jan 07 11:22 |
psydroid | oh | Jan 07 11:22 |
scientes | but the books are no very serious | Jan 07 11:22 |
scientes | the serious stuff is all in english or russian (!) | Jan 07 11:22 |
psydroid | I know a lot of russian professors went to teach in south america | Jan 07 11:23 |
scientes | by which i mean technical | Jan 07 11:23 |
scientes | but I don't really know what i am talking about | Jan 07 11:23 |
psydroid | so it's not like in spain, I guess | Jan 07 11:23 |
psydroid | maybe it also depends where you are | Jan 07 11:23 |
scientes | there was just a book sale in La Paz, and there were some...oh no they were translated from Russian to Spanish | Jan 07 11:24 |
scientes | about geology and mining | Jan 07 11:24 |
scientes | looked really interesting | Jan 07 11:24 |
psydroid | are local people themselves interested in those? | Jan 07 11:25 |
scientes | I just love book sales | Jan 07 11:26 |
scientes | and look at everything :) | Jan 07 11:26 |
scientes | also saw a picture of Hugo Chavez reading Faust | Jan 07 11:26 |
psydroid | I can spend hours at book stores and stands, I even went to some book fairs in Poland when I lived there (like Cracow and Warsaw) | Jan 07 11:27 |
scientes | I also take note of personal libraries | Jan 07 11:29 |
scientes | here in Batumi there is an "american corner" of the library run by the U.S. Embassy, however it doesn't really have real books, just an anthology of the Bronte sisters | Jan 07 11:30 |
scientes | but they do have laptops that people can use while they are there | Jan 07 11:31 |
scientes | which is a pretty big deal considering a laptop is kinda expensive here | Jan 07 11:31 |
psydroid | what is the average monthly wage in Georgia? | Jan 07 11:32 |
scientes | not sure (and those numbers are means and thus not very useful) | Jan 07 11:32 |
scientes | but the pension is 500 lari, or about 180 USD | Jan 07 11:33 |
scientes | 175 | Jan 07 11:33 |
scientes | however considers are really good in this country | Jan 07 11:35 |
scientes | I would say it is better than the US | Jan 07 11:35 |
psydroid | I can see how that makes buying laptops and the likes not something everyone can afford | Jan 07 11:35 |
psydroid | yes | Jan 07 11:35 |
scientes | psydroid, also Chromebooks are only sold in countries that can afford full-priced laptops | Jan 07 11:35 |
scientes | fucking assholes | Jan 07 11:35 |
psydroid | after your experiences living outside of the US would you consider going back to live there? | Jan 07 11:36 |
scientes | never | Jan 07 11:36 |
scientes | *conditions | Jan 07 11:36 |
psydroid | I think used laptops and things like Pinebook (Pro) should be considered for developing countries, it's an artificial divide to keep people with low incomes dumb and impoverished | Jan 07 11:37 |
psydroid | I see a lot of laptops with inferior specs being sold for 1000 euros and more | Jan 07 11:38 |
scientes | psydroid, except they have to know those exist | Jan 07 11:38 |
scientes | basically, Google wants everyone to be a slave through android | Jan 07 11:38 |
scientes | they don't want them to have laptops | Jan 07 11:38 |
scientes | they only sell the chromebook to fuck with microsoft | Jan 07 11:38 |
scientes | at least this country has internet neutrality | Jan 07 11:39 |
scientes | bolivia had it too | Jan 07 11:39 |
psydroid | I have and Android tablet and yesterday, as I was importing my YouTube subscriptions and playlists through NewPipe, my account got flagged and now I am getting a Recaptcha dialog all the time | Jan 07 11:39 |
psydroid | which doesn't work, because I completely disabled Chrome | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | tablets are shit | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | they are completely useful for everything IMHO | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | *useless | Jan 07 11:40 |
psydroid | I use this one to read books mainly | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | but yeah, YouTube just added a download feature | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | because they were becoming irrelevent without it | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | like they had to add a offline mode to maps because of OsmAND | Jan 07 11:40 |
scientes | they do extensive research, and only are as useful as it takes to stay relevent | Jan 07 11:41 |
scientes | also ReCAPCHA is a fraudulent program | Jan 07 11:41 |
scientes | as it basically is just a 'signed in? whitelist' program | Jan 07 11:42 |
psydroid | I only use 2 things from Google, Gmail throwaway mail accounts and YouTube | Jan 07 11:42 |
psydroid | yes | Jan 07 11:42 |
psydroid | and it doesn't work with Firefox Fennec (+ Ublock Origin and NoScript Suite), which I have installed everywhere | Jan 07 11:42 |
scientes | I also have yandex hosting my domain name | Jan 07 11:42 |
scientes | i just cant do a email server cause the spam problem is too horrible | Jan 07 11:43 |
psydroid | that's my issue too | Jan 07 11:43 |
scientes | but yandex with host your domain so you can at least own the name | Jan 07 11:43 |
psydroid | I can do an e-mail server, but only for highly trusted contacts | Jan 07 11:43 |
scientes | *will | Jan 07 11:43 |
scientes | you could also forward to them, and have cetain contacts not forward | Jan 07 11:43 |
scientes | but i haven't bothered to set up something so fancy | Jan 07 11:44 |
psydroid | a friend of mine did it and told me he would help me if I had any issues, but I told him I would look into it later this year | Jan 07 11:44 |
scientes | its not that difficult, however the spam is impossible | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | and not worth your time | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | also don't bother with IMAP | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | just use ssh+mutt+Mailldir | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | IMAP is too slow anyways | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | or fetchmail if you really need local | Jan 07 11:45 |
psydroid | but yes, I would rather run pure GNU/Linux on mobile devices too | Jan 07 11:45 |
scientes | that is all about development | Jan 07 11:46 |
psydroid | I think that's where all of these Android variants are missing the point imho | Jan 07 11:46 |
scientes | I mainly use my phone for studying languages | Jan 07 11:46 |
scientes | and GNU/Linux is the only thing that can fix the real problem: Android | Jan 07 11:46 |
scientes | which can't even mount a fucking SD card right | Jan 07 11:46 |
psydroid | we should be working on freeing devices and making them run mainline kernels and whatever userland we want | Jan 07 11:47 |
scientes | yes, Pinephone + PostmarketOS is working on it right | Jan 07 11:47 |
scientes | but I don | Jan 07 11:47 |
scientes | t have time for that stuff | Jan 07 11:47 |
psydroid | neither do I, at least not anytime soon | Jan 07 11:48 |
scientes | https://siguza.github.io/PAN/ | Jan 07 11:51 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-siguza.github.io | github subdomain | Jan 07 11:51 | |
scientes | hahahahahahahahaha | Jan 07 11:51 |
scientes | CPU bug | Jan 07 11:51 |
scientes | big fat CPU bug | Jan 07 11:51 |
psydroid | that's probably applicable to my machines too, I'll have to test it later | Jan 07 12:00 |
scientes | I really don't get the iphone jailbreak scene | Jan 07 12:02 |
scientes | its kinda like the crusades | Jan 07 12:03 |
psydroid | neither do I | Jan 07 12:03 |
scientes | you just WANT to do it the hard way | Jan 07 12:03 |
psydroid | I don't even get the hackintosh scene, although that may be useful in some scenarios | Jan 07 12:04 |
scientes | that is different, but it is a waste of time now that the software is completely utterly irrelevent for everything | Jan 07 12:04 |
scientes | even irrelevent to Apple | Jan 07 12:05 |
scientes | like they just added a bunch of student imcompatible changes (removing /usr/include) which I heard about because I am in #zig | Jan 07 12:06 |
scientes | however no-one really cared | Jan 07 12:06 |
scientes | they just drop OSX support | Jan 07 12:06 |
scientes | *stupid | Jan 07 12:06 |
scientes | I certainly will with distcc | Jan 07 12:06 |
oiaohm | Really even that is it marked as fixed with Linux kernel how long until all amd64 running old kernels of Linux get updates. | Jan 07 12:19 |
oiaohm | with a lot of android devices most likely never. | Jan 07 12:19 |
schestowitz | [11:51] <scientes> big fat CPU bug | Jan 07 12:21 |
schestowitz | They ship when it runs | Jan 07 12:21 |
schestowitz | not when it's tested | Jan 07 12:21 |
schestowitz | now when it works | Jan 07 12:21 |
schestowitz | this is how they meet quarterly targets for shareholders | Jan 07 12:21 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Old kernels are doomed either way. | Jan 07 12:22 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: Its not just that you can do all the testing in the world and if those tests are not written to hit the fault it will never show a problem. | Jan 07 12:23 |
oiaohm | Design and making a cpu is complex but the harder part is making the conformance suite so you can be sure it in fact works right. | Jan 07 12:24 |
psydroid | anything that doesn't run the mainline kernel is doomed and that means mostly Android devices | Jan 07 12:26 |
oiaohm | psydroid: that includes a lot of Linux distributions on the desktop and general server, Fairly much everything iOT as well. | Jan 07 12:27 |
oiaohm | Nothing like swimming in a pool if insecurity. | Jan 07 12:27 |
oiaohm | https://www.cnet.com/news/facebooks-first-ces-reveal-in-years-is-a-privacy-tool-that-falls-short/ Facebook trying to work out how to get regulators happy and still keep havesting as much data as possible. | Jan 07 12:28 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facebook's first CES reveal in years is a privacy tool that falls short - CNET | Jan 07 12:29 | |
scientes | psydroid, actually even mainline is pretty insecure | Jan 07 12:29 |
scientes | if you need security you need to use seL4, and use it correctly | Jan 07 12:29 |
scientes | its more about the competency needed to hack it | Jan 07 12:30 |
scientes | that is why Linus is right to not single out security patches | Jan 07 12:30 |
scientes | cause linux is horrible insecure | Jan 07 12:30 |
scientes | especially if you are using DRM | Jan 07 12:30 |
scientes | or even just have a usb port | Jan 07 12:31 |
scientes | its better than everything like it, but that doesn't mean it is secure | Jan 07 12:32 |
oiaohm | there was a really good presentation why you should not cherry pick security patches with the Linux kernel. | Jan 07 12:32 |
oiaohm | scientes: https://kernel-recipes.org/en/2019/talks/cves-are-dead-long-live-the-cve/ that is by greg. | Jan 07 12:32 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-kernel-recipes.org | CVEs are dead, long live the CVE! | Kernel Recipes 2019 | Jan 07 12:33 | |
psydroid | scientes, I know, that's why I am more interested in microkernels such as seL4 myself too, I attended a lot of talks in the microkernel room at FOSDEM last year | Jan 07 12:33 |
oiaohm | The fact is the Linux kernel does not openly special label security faults. | Jan 07 12:33 |
psydroid | I don't know if I will make it this year | Jan 07 12:33 |
oiaohm | sel4 is as secure as what is is not because its a microkernel but due to its auditing process. | Jan 07 12:34 |
scientes | it is also fast | Jan 07 12:34 |
oiaohm | Doing a full device to csiro data61 standard is hell load of work. | Jan 07 12:35 |
psydroid | I met and talked to jermar, who is also involved in helenos | Jan 07 12:35 |
oiaohm | https://data61.csiro.au/en/Our-Research/Focus-Areas/Cybersecurity the Cross Domain Desktop Compositor (CDDC) product, is interesting beast to sit at. | Jan 07 12:37 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-data61.csiro.au | Cybersecurity - Data61 | Jan 07 12:37 | |
oiaohm | Yes 3 different computers with 3 different screen output connected to one box being merged into a single screen output. | Jan 07 12:37 |
oiaohm | with single keyboard and mouse. | Jan 07 12:38 |
rianne | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-death-evidence-points-21227499 murder or suicide? | Jan 07 12:44 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mirror.co.uk | Jeffrey Epstein death evidence 'points to murder' as neck injuries 'unlike' hanging - Mirror Online | Jan 07 12:44 | |
oiaohm | rianne: really I would not be supprised if it paid for execution. Number of people jeffrey epstein could be a problem for if he talked fully is insanely long and lots of them insanely rich. | Jan 07 12:48 |
rianne | oiaohm: this is something that we need to watch for, there will be more to come out I guess. | Jan 07 12:52 |
schestowitz | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.html | Jan 07 12:54 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Bill Gates Met With Jeffrey Epstein Many Times, Despite His Past - The New York Times | Jan 07 12:54 | |
schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/16925494 | Jan 07 12:54 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Habibi, should have put him down a tandoori oven... makes the wounds harder to assess..." | Jan 07 12:54 | |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- Photo by schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: https://joindiaspora.com/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6e8e2792f1816ac90929.jpeg | Jan 07 12:54 | |
schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/16925476 | Jan 07 12:54 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Condolences to #billgates whose beloved BFF #epstein was murdered https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-death-evidence-points-21227499 murder or suicide? http://techrights.org/2019/12/29/media-reports-gates-mansion-pedophilia/ | Jan 07 12:54 | |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Mansion of Pedophilia – Part V: When Media Reports a Story One Year Late and When All Journalists Are on Holiday, Then Removes Video Reports (When Many People Notice Them) | Techrights | Jan 07 12:54 | |
schestowitz | oiaohm: http://techrights.org/2019/12/28/gates-foundation-exodus/ | Jan 07 12:55 |
schestowitz | cites you a bit http://techrights.org/2019/12/28/gates-foundation-exodus/ | Jan 07 12:55 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mansion of Pedophilia – Part IV: An Apparent Gates Foundation Exodus During Pedophilia Trial | Techrights | Jan 07 12:55 | |
oiaohm | schestowitz: really bill gates would be on the smaller fish side. | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | I know | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | likely nor directly involved | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | in the pedophelia | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | but awake of it | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | and keeping it undercover | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | *aware of it | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | considering who was around him | Jan 07 13:01 |
schestowitz | even AFTER the arrest | Jan 07 13:01 |
oiaohm | I was meaning people Jeffrey Epstein knew. | Jan 07 13:01 |
scientes | oh geeze | Jan 07 13:01 |
scientes | when people start taling about "the children" they have ulterior motives | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | gates did | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | as the foundation | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | all that "the children" BS | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | e.g. when pushing GMO in africa | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | and gsk's overpriced products in india | Jan 07 13:02 |
schestowitz | all this whole gates invested in the companies behind those things | Jan 07 13:03 |
oiaohm | https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/jeffrey-epsteins-black-book-trump-clintons-prince-andrew.html << this kind of has the nightmare list. | Jan 07 13:03 |
schestowitz | anyway, more people will see how cynical a ploy it was he he knowingly remains close to a traficker | Jan 07 13:03 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cnbc.com | Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book: Trump, Clintons, Prince Andrew | Jan 07 13:03 | |
oiaohm | With the people on that list I was supprised once caught that jeffrey epstein was not quickly dead. | Jan 07 13:04 |
schestowitz | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-interview.html | Jan 07 13:04 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | The Day Jeffrey Epstein Told Me He Had Dirt on Powerful People - The New York Times | Jan 07 13:04 | |
oiaohm | Exactly that there is like asking to die. | Jan 07 13:04 |
*schestowitz sees no need for a "techrights cares about the children" PR campaign | Jan 07 13:05 | |
scientes | schestowitz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFBHBMatXk | Jan 07 13:07 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cute kids perform Belt and Road song - YouTube | Jan 07 13:07 | |
oiaohm | Also you have to wonder with that contact list how much of the dirt has been driving the media reporting. As in X people need better media coverage because they have dirt on someone who might hurt us. | Jan 07 13:09 |
oiaohm | The probem I have I really think jeffrey epstein is just tip of very large iceberg. | Jan 07 13:10 |
oiaohm | That there is going to be a lot of pressure not to investigate and prosecute. | Jan 07 13:11 |
scientes | oiaohm, but look at those cute kids singing about how china is making us all prosperous | Jan 07 13:11 |
scientes | (particularly Africa) | Jan 07 13:13 |
scientes | and also South America | Jan 07 13:13 |
oiaohm | scientes: that song is a warning. | Jan 07 13:14 |
scientes | but they are so *cute* | Jan 07 13:14 |
oiaohm | Its based on a old china song of the silk road. | Jan 07 13:15 |
scientes | those cute things couldn't possibly be agressive | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | defaulting nations | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | for the kids | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | esp. in Africa | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | 2 million Chinese nations there now | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | not just building infrastructure | Jan 07 13:15 |
oiaohm | Interesting enough there is a internalation translation error. | Jan 07 13:15 |
schestowitz | I reckon the banker types too... men with ties | Jan 07 13:15 |
oiaohm | belt in the old song is the chinise word for military. | Jan 07 13:16 |
scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAb-Gfeoyk | Jan 07 13:16 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Is China DESTROYING Africa? - YouTube | Jan 07 13:16 | |
oiaohm | scientes: its not that straight forwards. | Jan 07 13:18 |
schestowitz | kaniini: any eta for pleroma.site? | Jan 07 13:19 |
oiaohm | scientes: there are some horrible china cultural things. https://supchina.com/2018/02/23/china-has-no-problem-with-racism-and-thats-a-problem/ << This is the nightmare. | Jan 07 13:21 |
schestowitz | 2 years later... still nothing https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/7494 | Jan 07 13:22 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-China has no problem with racism, and that's a problem - SupChina | Jan 07 13:22 | |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Automatically Cross-Post to Mastodon · Issue #7494 · diaspora/diaspora · GitHub | Jan 07 13:22 | |
schestowitz | DeadSuperHero (Sean) is in there | Jan 07 13:22 |
oiaohm | scientes: heck being anti chinese people and being in china is classed as acceptable. They are more offended if you hide you disdain. | Jan 07 13:23 |
oiaohm | scientes: I would say china nightmare culture problem is distroying a lot of places. Even places a lot closer to china. | Jan 07 13:24 |
oiaohm | It really simple to forget the mega damage European racism people did. China unfortunately still has a percent of there population who are that racist and will ignore countries laws of those they class as inferior. | Jan 07 13:26 |
oiaohm | Yes rasist with money is a big problem. | Jan 07 13:26 |
oiaohm | China is not the only country that could be a source of asses like this. | Jan 07 13:27 |
<--gde34 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Jan 07 13:28 | |
-->gde33 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 13:28 | |
oiaohm | https://www.ifixit.com/News/apple-is-bullying-a-security-company-with-a-dangerous-dmca-lawsuit this is a mess. | Jan 07 13:38 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Apple Is Bullying a Security Company with a Dangerous DMCA Lawsuit - iFixit | Jan 07 13:38 | |
schestowitz | yes, bad. Put one article about this in techrights... | Jan 07 13:40 |
schestowitz | under "drm" | Jan 07 13:40 |
schestowitz | not a perfect fit, but.. | Jan 07 13:40 |
schestowitz | kaniini: will this work? https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/issues/242 | Jan 07 13:44 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.pleroma.social | Granted scopes "follow read write" differ from requested scopes "read write" (#242) · Issues · Pleroma / pleroma · GitLab | Jan 07 13:44 | |
scientes | its not even a book https://www.worldcat.org/title/early-modern-capitalism-economic-and-social-change-in-europe-1400-1800/oclc/1124366027&referer=brief_results | Jan 07 14:25 |
scientes | its just a pdf behind a pay wall | Jan 07 14:25 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Early modern capitalism economic and social change in Europe, 1400-1800 (eBook, 2014) [WorldCat.org] | Jan 07 14:25 | |
scientes | Aaron Swartz pointed out that this shit kills people | Jan 07 14:26 |
scientes | he only has 5 actual books | Jan 07 14:26 |
scientes | they need to purge all fake books from that database | Jan 07 14:27 |
scientes | to keep their legitimacy | Jan 07 14:27 |
schestowitz | I never spoke to him | Jan 07 14:37 |
schestowitz | now it's too late | Jan 07 14:37 |
schestowitz | now it's too lat | Jan 07 14:37 |
schestowitz | (I mean speak in general, about anything...) | Jan 07 14:37 |
oiaohm | scientes: really its even very simple to get a printed book these days. | Jan 07 15:00 |
oiaohm | Its not like when publishing houses had limited capacity had to be selective on what is published. | Jan 07 15:01 |
scientes | oiaohm, I know they hae print on demand these days | Jan 07 15:08 |
scientes | but it doesn't fix the copyright mafiaa | Jan 07 15:08 |
scientes | there are plenty of books you cant get but are still in copyright | Jan 07 15:08 |
scientes | (especially considering that copyright is a few lifetimes these days) | Jan 07 15:09 |
scientes | 100 years ago it only lasted 20 years | Jan 07 15:09 |
-->aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 15:12 | |
scientes | fucking Matthew Garrat | Jan 07 15:15 |
scientes | he should change his legal name to Social Justice Warrior | Jan 07 15:15 |
scientes | its not like I go out of my way to be bothered by that sharpened-penis either | Jan 07 15:15 |
scientes | https://lwn.net/Articles/808575/ | Jan 07 15:16 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 403 @ https://lwn.net/Articles/808575/ ) | Jan 07 15:16 | |
scientes | this time he is making up shit about something he is not an expert in (random number generators) | Jan 07 15:16 |
scientes | last year it was praising Windows security as vastly better than Linux security | Jan 07 15:16 |
MinceR | https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/11/99a850e3db5a27f4.mp4 | Jan 07 15:27 |
schestowitz | cute! | Jan 07 15:29 |
schestowitz | I worried they'd get stuck | Jan 07 15:29 |
XRevan86 | schestowitz: They're professionals | Jan 07 15:32 |
schestowitz | they catch bilogas | Jan 07 15:33 |
schestowitz | belugas | Jan 07 15:33 |
schestowitz | wait, how is that spelt? | Jan 07 15:33 |
MinceR | beluga | Jan 07 15:33 |
schestowitz | one escaped for freedom... from St. Petersburg | Jan 07 15:34 |
schestowitz | with gear on her/him | Jan 07 15:34 |
schestowitz | and some thought it was a Russian spy beluga | Jan 07 15:34 |
schestowitz | XRevan86 might be familiar with that story | Jan 07 15:34 |
schestowitz | it was used for therapy with disabled people iirc | Jan 07 15:35 |
*XRevan86 heard about it, yes. | Jan 07 15:35 | |
MinceR | good thing none of the sharks with fucking lasers attached to their heads escaped | Jan 07 15:35 |
schestowitz | lol | Jan 07 15:35 |
schestowitz | did Trump scape? | Jan 07 15:35 |
MinceR | depends on from where | Jan 07 15:35 |
schestowitz | Also, I didn't know they attacked lasers to his cabinet | Jan 07 15:35 |
schestowitz | attached | Jan 07 15:36 |
schestowitz | humans would likely figure out how to do beluga 'cockfights' | Jan 07 15:36 |
schestowitz | with razor blades and all | Jan 07 15:36 |
schestowitz | like bull 'fight' 'entertainment' | Jan 07 15:36 |
scientes | XRevan86, did you do anything for christmas? | Jan 07 15:40 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Screamed "Exist god does not" from the window (not really). | Jan 07 15:42 |
XRevan86 | Finally updated ejabberd to 19.09.1. | Jan 07 15:45 |
scientes | <XRevan86> Finally updated ejabberd to 19.09.1. | Jan 07 15:46 |
scientes | heh | Jan 07 15:46 |
<--namber has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) | Jan 07 15:46 | |
scientes | damn, doesn't seem anyone put up that scene where Pierre (Henry Fonda) is drinking in the frame of a window | Jan 07 15:47 |
scientes | in War and Peace | Jan 07 15:47 |
scientes | shouting "exist god does not" :) | Jan 07 15:47 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What? :) | Jan 07 15:48 |
scientes | i made up the last part | Jan 07 15:48 |
MinceR | "i'm mad as hell, and i'm not going to take this anymore!" | Jan 07 15:51 |
scientes | found it XRevan86 https://youtu.be/KQNVZSYI_yk?t=671 | Jan 07 15:52 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-War And Peace 1956 - YouTube | Jan 07 15:52 | |
scientes | he can hardly stand up before the bottle | Jan 07 15:54 |
XRevan86 | scientes: https://youtu.be/V-SAh4jdssA?t=927 I know the scene | Jan 07 15:55 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Война и мир (HD) фильм 1-1 (исторический, реж.Сергей Бондарчук, 1967 г.) - YouTube | Jan 07 15:55 | |
scientes | woah, bear | Jan 07 15:56 |
scientes | I like the hollywood version better already | Jan 07 15:57 |
scientes | too much shaky camera | Jan 07 15:58 |
scientes | and doesn't have the skill of the hollywood method actors | Jan 07 15:58 |
MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/646099.jpg | Jan 07 15:59 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It looks like it's shot in the US in the 1950s… which is also exactly true. | Jan 07 16:05 |
scientes | lmao | Jan 07 16:06 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It has that poshness that I can't help that notice | Jan 07 16:06 |
XRevan86 | * I can't help but notice | Jan 07 16:06 |
scientes | the only pi searcher i found only searches the first 2 million digits | Jan 07 16:06 |
scientes | i need a program so i can search farther | Jan 07 16:06 |
XRevan86 | scientes: But yes, it does look like the camera is handled manually in the Bondarchuk's version. Albeit in that scene it's extra shaky, so I assume it's intentional. | Jan 07 16:09 |
XRevan86 | scientes: At least both versions are on a par on having noticeable make-up :). | Jan 07 16:10 |
scientes | hmm the program i found sucks cause it has to allocate all the memory | Jan 07 16:10 |
scientes | that is normal | Jan 07 16:11 |
scientes | theatre was before, which has WAY more make-up | Jan 07 16:11 |
scientes | damn, this program sucks | Jan 07 16:11 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Theatre is a different realm though. | Jan 07 16:11 |
scientes | cant even do 500,000 without dying at 13GB ram | Jan 07 16:12 |
scientes | XRevan86, yeah but film didn't exist | Jan 07 16:12 |
scientes | so the early stuff really sucks as they didn't have method acting | Jan 07 16:12 |
scientes | but they figured it out in the 50s, and Henry Fonda, et all became famous because of it | Jan 07 16:12 |
scientes | oh wow what a dumb algorithm | Jan 07 16:13 |
scientes | 100,000 uses 2GB, 250,000 uses 12 GB | Jan 07 16:13 |
scientes | something is wrong | Jan 07 16:13 |
scientes | and it isn't the algorithm | Jan 07 16:13 |
scientes | I wanted to make it almost impossible to call me by only publishing which digit of pi my phone number starts as | Jan 07 16:14 |
kaniini | schestowitz its a hundreds of gb database, it just has to take time | Jan 07 16:15 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Dunno, all I know is that somehow contemporary Russian actors are somehow even worse, so at least Soviet acting look good in comparison. | Jan 07 16:16 |
XRevan86 | I have low standards. | Jan 07 16:16 |
scientes | well the earlier hollywood stuff was horrible | Jan 07 16:16 |
scientes | these were the firsts and they were great | Jan 07 16:17 |
XRevan86 | This is more of a "lasts" case | Jan 07 16:17 |
schestowitz | kaniini: wow, that is massssive | Jan 07 16:17 |
MinceR | that's what she said. | Jan 07 16:20 |
XRevan86 | imitating a snake? | Jan 07 16:21 |
MinceR | scientes: if you have or can get a text file with the digits of pi, it might be easier and faster to search in that | Jan 07 16:21 |
scientes | MinceR, i wanted to search the digits as i generated them | Jan 07 16:21 |
MinceR | especially since the first 2 million digits can fit in a text file around 2MB long | Jan 07 16:21 |
scientes | so i can search over a billion digits | Jan 07 16:21 |
XRevan86 | scientes: That's going to take forever | Jan 07 16:21 |
MinceR | :) | Jan 07 16:21 |
scientes | Could not find module ‘Data.Number.CReal’ | Jan 07 16:23 |
scientes | what package do i need | Jan 07 16:23 |
schestowitz | MinceR: when she saw the precancerous lump | Jan 07 16:23 |
MinceR | lol | Jan 07 16:23 |
scientes | Package libghc-numbers-dev | Jan 07 16:24 |
schestowitz | package cancerd | Jan 07 16:24 |
MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645874.jpg | Jan 07 16:24 |
*XRevan86 also suspects that the forever will take a bit less in C than in Haskell | Jan 07 16:24 | |
scientes | XRevan86, yeah but look at this thing https://github.com/WhatTheFunctional/ChudnovskyPi/blob/master/Chudnovsky.hs | Jan 07 16:25 |
scientes | its beautiful | Jan 07 16:25 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ChudnovskyPi/Chudnovsky.hs at master · WhatTheFunctional/ChudnovskyPi · GitHub | Jan 07 16:25 | |
scientes | wtf | Jan 07 16:25 |
XRevan86 | scientes: If you say so. | Jan 07 16:26 |
scientes | it doesn't really work | Jan 07 16:26 |
scientes | its printing out every iteration | Jan 07 16:26 |
scientes | and the same digits each time | Jan 07 16:26 |
scientes | nutty | Jan 07 16:26 |
schestowitz | MinceR: I didn't know they made furniture for cats... | Jan 07 16:26 |
MinceR | :> | Jan 07 16:26 |
scientes | Chudnovsky algorithm is very fast | Jan 07 16:27 |
XRevan86 | Such a fringe use-case there's a Rosetta Code article on it: https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pi | Jan 07 16:27 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-rosettacode.org | Pi - Rosetta Code | Jan 07 16:27 | |
schestowitz | cats did not know either | Jan 07 16:27 |
scientes | and i dont want to use java | Jan 07 16:27 |
MinceR | they did | Jan 07 16:27 |
schestowitz | they "are the babbby" | Jan 07 16:27 |
MinceR | they know all furniture was made for cats :> | Jan 07 16:27 |
*schestowitz dingo reference used | Jan 07 16:27 | |
schestowitz | *ate | Jan 07 16:28 |
scientes | https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pi#C as you can see algorithm matters much more than language | Jan 07 16:28 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-rosettacode.org | Pi - Rosetta Code | Jan 07 16:28 | |
XRevan86 | scientes: true | Jan 07 16:28 |
scientes | its Ramnujan baby | Jan 07 16:28 |
scientes | the Indian genius | Jan 07 16:28 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I'm wondering if there's a way to calculate digits without storing all the previous ones | Jan 07 16:29 |
scientes | XRevan86, yes, the last twwo algorithms do that | Jan 07 16:29 |
scientes | actually, all of them do | Jan 07 16:29 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Why GMP then? | Jan 07 16:29 |
scientes | cause you need more memory as you advance | Jan 07 16:29 |
XRevan86 | makes sense | Jan 07 16:30 |
scientes | you have to calculate more at a time | Jan 07 16:30 |
scientes | as the curve is getting less | Jan 07 16:30 |
XRevan86 | > so the program repeatedly calculates Pi digits with increasing length and chop off leading digits already displayed | Jan 07 16:31 |
XRevan86 | ah, there's why GMP | Jan 07 16:31 |
XRevan86 | I guess I'm fantasising about something iterative. | Jan 07 16:32 |
scientes | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chudnovsky_algorithm | Jan 07 16:32 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Chudnovsky algorithm - Wikipedia | Jan 07 16:32 | |
scientes | https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/5def68172b231baf82f3003f88aa7a078b947b49 | Jan 07 16:32 |
XRevan86 | > For a high performance iterative implementation | Jan 07 16:33 |
scientes | nlogn^3 | Jan 07 16:33 |
scientes | it has been calculated to 31.4 trillion digits | Jan 07 16:33 |
XRevan86 | scientes: How much memory does it need to calculate the nth digit? | Jan 07 16:33 |
scientes | doesn't have space complexity there.... | Jan 07 16:33 |
XRevan86 | when an (n-1)th is known | Jan 07 16:34 |
scientes | XRevan86, it doesn't work like that | Jan 07 16:34 |
scientes | especially as you are calculating in binary and then converting | Jan 07 16:35 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I downloaded the implementation from the GMP site and oh boy… | Jan 07 16:35 |
XRevan86 | I don't know what I expected. | Jan 07 16:36 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: You made me remember this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skf8NTEnrO4 | Jan 07 16:36 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The Irrationally Long Number Pi Song ("Sweet Number Pi") - YouTube | Jan 07 16:36 | |
scientes | XRevan86, what flags did you use? | Jan 07 16:37 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I just looked at the code | Jan 07 16:37 |
XRevan86 | that removed the desire to actually run it | Jan 07 16:38 |
scientes | it isn't that bad | Jan 07 16:38 |
XRevan86 | scientes: And you'd need to augment it to do what you want | Jan 07 16:38 |
scientes | ahh yes | Jan 07 16:38 |
scientes | that is the clincher | Jan 07 16:38 |
scientes | ahh geeze, they used all these internal symbols in that file too | Jan 07 16:41 |
scientes | oh nvm | Jan 07 16:41 |
scientes | spifffy fast however | Jan 07 16:44 |
oiaohm | I do wonder what google assistant would do if you set it up to recieve a computer generated version of Sweet Number PI never ending. | Jan 07 16:44 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I can't quite figure out why main ends on "exit (0);" %) | Jan 07 16:44 |
XRevan86 | Why would anyone put that there… | Jan 07 16:44 |
scientes | just did 14000000 digits | Jan 07 16:45 |
scientes | spiffy fast | Jan 07 16:45 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: how old is the c program | Jan 07 16:45 |
XRevan86 | Monotonic time, that's nice, except that it hardcodes 1000 instead of C89's CLOCKS_PER_SEC | Jan 07 16:45 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Can't be older than GMP itself | Jan 07 16:46 |
oiaohm | Some old k&R c compliers you had to use exit(0) at end of main or stupid stuff use to happen. | Jan 07 16:46 |
scientes | oiaohm, makes sense | Jan 07 16:46 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Well, it's clearly C89 | Jan 07 16:47 |
scientes | hit a SIGBUS invalid instruction | Jan 07 16:47 |
scientes | but of course it is ANSI | Jan 07 16:47 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: "int main(int argc, char *argv[])" | Jan 07 16:47 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: you have to remember this could be something forwards ported. | Jan 07 16:47 |
oiaohm | You find exit(0) at end of main in c89 stuff when it turns out to be based on something older a lot. | Jan 07 16:48 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: I suppose. It's news to me that this could've ever been useful | Jan 07 16:48 |
XRevan86 | How silly should a compiler writer be? | Jan 07 16:49 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: I would not call it exactly useful. | Jan 07 16:49 |
oiaohm | Its like some compliers today get upset when you don't have a return value at end of main as well. | Jan 07 16:49 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: It's a requirement of C89. | Jan 07 16:50 |
XRevan86 | Well, a UB in C89 | Jan 07 16:50 |
XRevan86 | if one doesn't have a return value in a function that should have one | Jan 07 16:50 |
scientes | XRevan86, main() gets some exceptions | Jan 07 16:51 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Only because of common sense and later C99 | Jan 07 16:51 |
scientes | damn, this pi generator isn't a stream | Jan 07 16:52 |
oiaohm | scientes: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7280877/why-and-how-does-gcc-compile-a-function-with-a-missing-return-statement to be correct missing return value is undefine behaviour by standard even on main. In all versions of C. | Jan 07 16:52 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stackoverflow.com | c - Why and how does GCC compile a function with a missing return statement? - Stack Overflow | Jan 07 16:52 | |
XRevan86 | "In all versions of C." – no, not since C99 | Jan 07 16:53 |
scientes | oiaohm, my god that is insane | Jan 07 16:53 |
XRevan86 | gcc -std=c89 -Wreturn-type == a warning | Jan 07 16:54 |
scientes | ugggh, fucking java | Jan 07 16:54 |
scientes | i really do not want to use java | Jan 07 16:54 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: your right. ISO/IEC 9899:1989 (C90): and before its undefined. | Jan 07 16:54 |
scientes | the world would be better had java never been created | Jan 07 16:54 |
oiaohm | exit(0) or return 0; on main before that makes absolute sense. | Jan 07 16:55 |
oiaohm | Unless you like something random happening. | Jan 07 16:55 |
scientes | oh wow, c89 and c90 are differnt | Jan 07 16:56 |
scientes | madness | Jan 07 16:56 |
XRevan86 | But if you, a compiler developer, think that in case of this UB it is actually reasonable to make the programme return random garbage, I loath you. | Jan 07 16:56 |
scientes | damn, not in the first 10 million digits | Jan 07 16:56 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Um, C89 and C90 are marginally different. | Jan 07 16:56 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Oh, I thought you meant "exit(0);" only | Jan 07 16:56 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: I totally would've added "return 0;" there. | Jan 07 16:57 |
scientes | image though | Jan 07 16:57 |
scientes | imagine | Jan 07 16:57 |
scientes | if you say that they can find something after the Xth digit of pi | Jan 07 16:57 |
XRevan86 | scientes: In practice, C89 == C90 | Jan 07 16:57 |
scientes | you can really frustrate that person | Jan 07 16:57 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: some of you k&r compliers for embeded if you used return 0 on main it errored out. | Jan 07 16:57 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: so exit(0); was you dependable way of doing return 0 on main back then. | Jan 07 16:58 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Did they assume "main" to mean "void main"? | Jan 07 16:58 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: some did some did not. | Jan 07 16:58 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: and some changed their mind based on build flags. | Jan 07 16:58 |
oiaohm | Yes many a day you were wanting to kill complier developer lucky they were not in the same room. | Jan 07 16:59 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Who writes this stuff? Even I in 2020 know what "implicit int" is. | Jan 07 16:59 |
XRevan86 | Why should main be any different? I am sure it wasn't stated to be different anywhere. | Jan 07 17:00 |
scientes | uggh | Jan 07 17:00 |
scientes | a horrible decision XRevan86 | Jan 07 17:00 |
XRevan86 | scientes: So, what did you mean when you said that C90 differs from C89? | Jan 07 17:00 |
danielp3344 | Maybe we should give up and say the compiler is the documentation for a language | Jan 07 17:01 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: main was kind fishy you have to remember you had OS back then that the return value from main really had no where to go. | Jan 07 17:01 |
scientes | danielp3344, the only reason compilers are so good is because that was rejected | Jan 07 17:01 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What I read is that the ISO standard (C90) has some better wording/clarifications that the prior ANSI one (C89) hasn't. | Jan 07 17:01 |
danielp3344 | scientes: are there any c compilers that are exactly alike? | Jan 07 17:01 |
scientes | danielp3344, compilers are great specifically because the language is defined as an abstract machine | Jan 07 17:02 |
XRevan86 | scientes: But in practice that's retroactively applicable, so it's really the same thing. | Jan 07 17:02 |
oiaohm | 1999 is C99 is only 26-27 years latter after the C language was first started that return value as 0 without doing return or anything was written into the standard. | Jan 07 17:02 |
scientes | which can be reasoned about | Jan 07 17:02 |
oiaohm | c89/c90 has main as a int | Jan 07 17:02 |
scientes | restrict did NOTHING until straight aliasing came about | Jan 07 17:02 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: main was always int and still is | Jan 07 17:02 |
scientes | *strict | Jan 07 17:03 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: k&r allowed main to be what the OS need that where void main and double main comes form. | Jan 07 17:03 |
danielp3344 | <oiaohm "c89/c90 has main as a int"> you know that threw me for a long time when I started programming | Jan 07 17:03 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Oh… freaky. | Jan 07 17:03 |
danielp3344 | The first real programming I ever did was on avr chips | Jan 07 17:04 |
danielp3344 | and main is void | Jan 07 17:04 |
scientes | oiaohm, _start is noreturn | Jan 07 17:04 |
*XRevan86 did some Batch "programming" before ever seeing C, so when I finally have, "int main" looked perfectly natural to me. | Jan 07 17:04 | |
danielp3344 | so when I started trying to write programs for my computer I couldn't figure that out for a while lol | Jan 07 17:04 |
XRevan86 | %ERRORLEVEL% %) | Jan 07 17:04 |
danielp3344 | GCC's errors didn't help lol | Jan 07 17:05 |
scientes | also with _start you have to align the damn stack | Jan 07 17:05 |
oiaohm | danielp3344: lot of avr compliers were k&r for ages. | Jan 07 17:05 |
scientes | or Bad Things(tm) will happen | Jan 07 17:05 |
XRevan86 | Even while still being a stinkin' Windows user that is | Jan 07 17:05 |
danielp3344 | lol, gcc was what originally drew me to GNU+Linux | Jan 07 17:05 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: I guess why you see exit(0) on old code makes sense to you now that you know about odd ball main defines. | Jan 07 17:06 |
danielp3344 | I used visual studio and it sucked | Jan 07 17:06 |
scientes | I hate K&R | Jan 07 17:06 |
danielp3344 | gcc and make was so much better | Jan 07 17:06 |
scientes | it is so ugly | Jan 07 17:06 |
scientes | it is evil | Jan 07 17:06 |
scientes | even glibc has it | Jan 07 17:06 |
oiaohm | and the fact return a value is not defined. | Jan 07 17:06 |
danielp3344 | scientes: K&R? | Jan 07 17:06 |
oiaohm | for ages. | Jan 07 17:06 |
scientes | danielp3344, it is called K&R, but the K&R book was updated for ANSI style | Jan 07 17:07 |
scientes | also called prototypes | Jan 07 17:07 |
danielp3344 | ah | Jan 07 17:07 |
danielp3344 | lol | Jan 07 17:07 |
oiaohm | danielp3344: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language K&R is used to define C compliers based off this book. | Jan 07 17:07 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | The C Programming Language - Wikipedia | Jan 07 17:07 | |
oiaohm | and that book is not that strict. | Jan 07 17:07 |
oiaohm | Normally first edition of that book from 1978 with no updates. | Jan 07 17:08 |
XRevan86 | "I hate K&R" – that can be interpreted… | Jan 07 17:10 |
XRevan86 | K&R don't deserve that. | Jan 07 17:10 |
scientes | XRevan86, heh | Jan 07 17:10 |
scientes | the book is actually great | Jan 07 17:10 |
*XRevan86 read the C89 version. | Jan 07 17:11 | |
scientes | same | Jan 07 17:11 |
oiaohm | scientes: _start is not part of the c standard defines. K&R defines main as the entry point. hello hell that following that you would map main to _start. | Jan 07 17:11 |
oiaohm | K&R book is great for the basics of C. | Jan 07 17:11 |
oiaohm | Writing a C complier from the K&R book alone is path to absolutely hell. | Jan 07 17:12 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Indeed. | Jan 07 17:13 |
scientes | oiaohm, well i'm talking about how things actually work | Jan 07 17:13 |
XRevan86 | Good thing that's all in the past. | Jan 07 17:13 |
XRevan86 | As much as things can possibly be in the fast. | Jan 07 17:14 |
oiaohm | scientes: I at times get given 30+ years old code to fix. | Jan 07 17:14 |
oiaohm | It did work back then., | Jan 07 17:15 |
scientes | _start ? | Jan 07 17:15 |
scientes | oh, the code | Jan 07 17:15 |
oiaohm | So you might be talking about how things actually work now. I have to be able to read the old stuff and see how it worked back then. | Jan 07 17:16 |
oiaohm | Then work out what modern is. | Jan 07 17:17 |
oiaohm | main coming _start even that is not standard is in fact required in some of the stuff. | Jan 07 17:17 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: the horrible stuff is all in the past as long as you don't get asked to fix up a really old code base. | Jan 07 17:18 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Old code can haunt for an infinite length of time | Jan 07 17:20 |
XRevan86 | But so can bad invalid code. Mentally those don't diverge far for me. | Jan 07 17:21 |
XRevan86 | from each other | Jan 07 17:21 |
oiaohm | Lot of this that I deal with was perfectly valid code back then but invalid now. | Jan 07 17:23 |
scientes | oiaohm, how? | Jan 07 17:23 |
scientes | kak? | Jan 07 17:24 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: Surprisingly little difference in the now | Jan 07 17:24 |
oiaohm | Its the things like the different main defines. ; at end of functions and other little things like that. | Jan 07 17:25 |
oiaohm | int main() { }; << that ; was required in some old k&r compliers. | Jan 07 17:26 |
oiaohm | Modern compliers don't like that. | Jan 07 17:26 |
scientes | oh god | Jan 07 17:26 |
scientes | that is horrible | Jan 07 17:26 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: I'm pretty sure that was not in the book. | Jan 07 17:27 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: it was in there how one paragraph could be read. | Jan 07 17:27 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: of course it could be read the other way as well. | Jan 07 17:27 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: And examples!? | Jan 07 17:27 |
XRevan86 | The book has darn examples. | Jan 07 17:27 |
oiaohm | First verson of the book one example is typoed that way as well. | Jan 07 17:28 |
oiaohm | Sorry 2 examples are typoed that wya. | Jan 07 17:28 |
oiaohm | wya/way. | Jan 07 17:28 |
oiaohm | As I said first edition of that book using as a base to build you complier really bad. | Jan 07 17:29 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: But you do realise that compiler will fail to build the Hello, World from the book? | Jan 07 17:29 |
XRevan86 | #include <stdio.h> | Jan 07 17:30 |
XRevan86 | main() | Jan 07 17:30 |
XRevan86 | { | Jan 07 17:30 |
XRevan86 | printf("hello, world\n"); | Jan 07 17:30 |
XRevan86 | } | Jan 07 17:30 |
XRevan86 | Which looks exactly like that. | Jan 07 17:30 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: that revised edition. | Jan 07 17:30 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: the non revised first edition there is the ; at the end of that. | Jan 07 17:31 |
XRevan86 | > Published by Prentice-Hall in 1988 | Jan 07 17:31 |
XRevan86 | Darn, it is. | Jan 07 17:31 |
danielp3344 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Hello,_World!%22_program#/media/File:Hello_World_Brian_Kernighan_1978.jpg | Jan 07 17:31 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | "Hello, World!" program - Wikipedia | Jan 07 17:31 | |
scientes | danielp3344, notice they claim it is not copyrightable | Jan 07 17:32 |
XRevan86 | https://archive.org/details/TheCProgrammingLanguageFirstEdition/page/n13 there | Jan 07 17:32 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-archive.org | The C Programming Language First Edition : Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive | Jan 07 17:32 | |
scientes | however linux builds a whole binary for "true" and "false" instead of using a much shorter script | Jan 07 17:32 |
scientes | and then claims superiority | Jan 07 17:32 |
XRevan86 | main() | Jan 07 17:33 |
XRevan86 | { | Jan 07 17:33 |
XRevan86 | printf("hello, world\n"); | Jan 07 17:33 |
XRevan86 | } | Jan 07 17:33 |
scientes | but its also to avoid being calling copiers of UNIX | Jan 07 17:33 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: Normally first edition of that book from 1978 with no updates. << the no updates are there for a reason. | Jan 07 17:33 |
danielp3344 | XRevan86: my eyes! | Jan 07 17:33 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: the first printing has printing errors. | Jan 07 17:33 |
XRevan86 | oiaohm: But this is 1978 | Jan 07 17:33 |
XRevan86 | were there updates the same year? | Jan 07 17:33 |
scientes | /bin/true --help | Jan 07 17:34 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: there are 3 print runs in the first year. | Jan 07 17:34 |
scientes | its even translated! | Jan 07 17:34 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: each correcting screw up. | Jan 07 17:34 |
scientes | /bin/true --version | Jan 07 17:34 |
scientes | !!!!!!!!!!! | Jan 07 17:34 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What's your point? even dash has an in-built version of true | Jan 07 17:34 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: so there are 3 different versions of the 1978 first edition. | Jan 07 17:35 |
scientes | XRevan86, that this binary is translated | Jan 07 17:35 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It's GNU coreutils. | Jan 07 17:35 |
scientes | when all it has to do is exit successfully | Jan 07 17:35 |
danielp3344 | scientes: /usr/bin/true over in systemD land :P | Jan 07 17:35 |
XRevan86 | It has standards, even for this. | Jan 07 17:35 |
scientes | shell is so messed up that [ is a COMMAND | Jan 07 17:35 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: the printing after 1978 are all nice and uniform and sorted out. | Jan 07 17:35 |
scientes | and not part of the language | Jan 07 17:35 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: yes there is another printing in 1979 | Jan 07 17:36 |
scientes | you have to fork to use [ | Jan 07 17:36 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Which is also actually in-built | Jan 07 17:36 |
scientes | not grep however | Jan 07 17:37 |
XRevan86 | I wonder what's older: [ or test (as a name) | Jan 07 17:37 |
scientes | shell is such a weird language | Jan 07 17:37 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It's a shell. | Jan 07 17:37 |
scientes | it kinda can be described that it predated MMU so it wasn't such a big deal to spawn processes | Jan 07 17:37 |
scientes | it was basicallly just a function call then | Jan 07 17:38 |
XRevan86 | scientes: And you know, all replacements are either not big enough to be worth switching from shell or big enough that they're literally bloat. | Jan 07 17:38 |
scientes | try lua with lua-re2 | Jan 07 17:38 |
scientes | but yeah, you have a point | Jan 07 17:39 |
scientes | and systemd has this massive libsystemd monstrosity | Jan 07 17:39 |
XRevan86 | scientes: And I am not going to use a language where launching programmes is harder than just typing their name. | Jan 07 17:39 |
scientes | i usually use ruby for that | Jan 07 17:39 |
scientes | and its just `program` | Jan 07 17:40 |
scientes | well, that calls the shell.... | Jan 07 17:40 |
scientes | but this is for laziness purposes | Jan 07 17:40 |
scientes | the design of shell is actually quite good | Jan 07 17:40 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: that one on archive.org is a different printing again all the other 1978 k&R I have. All the ones don't have New Zealand stuff. | Jan 07 17:40 |
scientes | the problem is that it wasn't designed for MMUs | Jan 07 17:40 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Freaky, that doesn't look very Ruby-ish %) | Jan 07 17:41 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: so that makes 4 different printings in one year so far. | Jan 07 17:41 |
XRevan86 | scientes: More Perl-ish (which it totally is) | Jan 07 17:41 |
scientes | XRevan86, well it has been deprecated, i forget what you are suppose to use | Jan 07 17:41 |
XRevan86 | scientes: They suddenly remembered they're not Perl? :) | Jan 07 17:41 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Anyway, shell is also great for pipes | Jan 07 17:42 |
scientes | yes it is | Jan 07 17:42 |
XRevan86 | stdout/stderr/stdin redirection | Jan 07 17:42 |
scientes | its quite a good design actually | Jan 07 17:42 |
scientes | the problem comes in sed not being full featured, et cetera | Jan 07 17:42 |
scientes | and the MMU stupidity | Jan 07 17:43 |
XRevan86 | It's also a design that doesn't blend well with something like Ruby :) | Jan 07 17:43 |
scientes | nah its fine | Jan 07 17:43 |
scientes | i write ruby/shell frankensteins | Jan 07 17:43 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I mean, you won't find a full-featured programming language that has this stuff short-handed. | Jan 07 17:43 |
scientes | you can work with pipes quite well in ruby | Jan 07 17:44 |
XRevan86 | scientes: We discussed sed… | Jan 07 17:44 |
scientes | well yeah ruby regexps are much more modern | Jan 07 17:44 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Of course, and in Python, but it just isn't as easy as just echo foo | bar >foobar | Jan 07 17:44 |
scientes | and ruby-re2 is close at hand if you want the small performance boost | Jan 07 17:44 |
scientes | python had hideous unicode support | Jan 07 17:45 |
scientes | *has | Jan 07 17:45 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Seems fine to me. | Jan 07 17:45 |
scientes | strings in python is like pulling teeth | Jan 07 17:45 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What I said about sed and say now is that you can use perl just for regexes and it will not even be longer than with sed. | Jan 07 17:46 |
XRevan86 | because in perl even a raw regex is a valid programme | Jan 07 17:46 |
XRevan86 | Which is absolutely disgusting, but also convinient in this particular way. | Jan 07 17:46 |
scientes | XRevan86, yeah, but i actually never learned sed's grammer because it isn't full featured | Jan 07 17:46 |
scientes | so i use ruby instead | Jan 07 17:46 |
scientes | and i avoid perl regexp cause they are not regular | Jan 07 17:47 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What would you say that? | Jan 07 17:47 |
scientes | well, ruby also supports backtracking.... | Jan 07 17:47 |
XRevan86 | An example, please | Jan 07 17:48 |
scientes | Jan 07 17:48 | |
scientes | /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/ | Jan 07 17:49 |
scientes | ^^ figure out what that does | Jan 07 17:49 |
XRevan86 | What to never do: show a regex and ask what it does | Jan 07 17:49 |
scientes | no, this one is cool | Jan 07 17:49 |
scientes | test it against some numbers | Jan 07 17:51 |
XRevan86 | Do I need Ruby for it? | Jan 07 17:52 |
scientes | perl or ruby | Jan 07 17:52 |
XRevan86 | ok, PCRE then | Jan 07 17:52 |
scientes | oh that is the shitty version | Jan 07 17:56 |
scientes | you want this version ^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$ | Jan 07 17:57 |
scientes | much better | Jan 07 17:57 |
scientes | then you can test against decimal numbers | Jan 07 17:57 |
XRevan86 | Any symbol instead of 1's? | Jan 07 17:57 |
scientes | the first version you have to do 1, 11, 111, 1111 et cetera | Jan 07 17:57 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It matched 1, but not 11, etc. | Jan 07 17:58 |
XRevan86 | and I don't really know what the | right side should do, because I never saw \1 before | Jan 07 17:58 |
scientes | XRevan86, but it matched 1111 | Jan 07 17:58 |
scientes | and 111111 | Jan 07 17:58 |
scientes | and 111111111 | Jan 07 17:58 |
XRevan86 | duplicator of the brackets? | Jan 07 17:58 |
scientes | they are equilivent | Jan 07 17:59 |
scientes | the first is easier to read the regexp syntax | Jan 07 17:59 |
XRevan86 | oh, wait, \1 %) | Jan 07 17:59 |
scientes | aha! | Jan 07 17:59 |
scientes | that is why you need perl or ruby | Jan 07 17:59 |
scientes | it is not regular | Jan 07 17:59 |
scientes | irb(main):029:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "9" | Jan 07 18:00 |
XRevan86 | > and i avoid perl regexp cause they are not regular | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | => #<MatchData "9" 1:nil> | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | irb(main):030:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "1" | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | => #<MatchData "1" 1:nil> | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | irb(main):031:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "101" | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | => nil | Jan 07 18:00 |
XRevan86 | scientes: That doesn't explain this | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | you asked for an example | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | and this is a counter-example | Jan 07 18:00 |
scientes | of what NOT to do | Jan 07 18:01 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Of why ruby's regex is better than perl's | Jan 07 18:01 |
scientes | of why to avoid backtracking | Jan 07 18:01 |
XRevan86 | then you gave something that works in either | Jan 07 18:01 |
scientes | well you can use ruby-re2 | Jan 07 18:01 |
scientes | that is regular | Jan 07 18:01 |
*XRevan86 absolutely never heard about RE2 | Jan 07 18:02 | |
scientes | have you figured out what it does yet? | Jan 07 18:02 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It matches something when it's featured twice | Jan 07 18:03 |
scientes | XRevan86, it also matchs 9 | Jan 07 18:03 |
XRevan86 | scientes: That a special case, left side | Jan 07 18:03 |
scientes | i'm talking about the second version | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | they are identical | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | and 9 is not a special case | Jan 07 18:04 |
XRevan86 | scientes: .? is | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | it also matches 21 | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | ok, then 111111111 | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | (9( | Jan 07 18:04 |
scientes | (9) | Jan 07 18:04 |
XRevan86 | .? or (..+?)\1+ | Jan 07 18:05 |
XRevan86 | really not sure why would you use +? here | Jan 07 18:05 |
scientes | <XRevan86> scientes: It matches something when it's featured twice | Jan 07 18:05 |
scientes | not quite but you are getting closer | Jan 07 18:05 |
XRevan86 | scientes: twice or more, but because it's not hungry, twice | Jan 07 18:06 |
XRevan86 | oh wait, it's until the end | Jan 07 18:07 |
XRevan86 | if one, then one, if not, then if it's two identical halves | Jan 07 18:07 |
XRevan86 | and it works in sed :) | Jan 07 18:08 |
XRevan86 | But only with +? replaced with just + | Jan 07 18:09 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Did you add that just to screw with sed? | Jan 07 18:09 |
scientes | no | Jan 07 18:09 |
XRevan86 | I really don't see the point of +? here. "$" automatically makes it hungry. | Jan 07 18:10 |
XRevan86 | There is absolutely no way for it not to be hungry when it has to go to the end to make a match. | Jan 07 18:10 |
scientes | do you want a hint? | Jan 07 18:10 |
scientes | you should be able to figure this out | Jan 07 18:11 |
XRevan86 | crap | Jan 07 18:11 |
XRevan86 | oh crap | Jan 07 18:11 |
XRevan86 | it only applies to \1 | Jan 07 18:11 |
scientes | testing it really is the fastest way to understand it | Jan 07 18:11 |
scientes | or at least get close | Jan 07 18:11 |
scientes | it only deals with nubmers | Jan 07 18:12 |
XRevan86 | scientes: It's really not that complicated, I'm just not fresh right now. | Jan 07 18:12 |
scientes | ok, here is a hint https://imgur.com/a/MFlQqiY | Jan 07 18:13 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Imgur: The magic of the Internet | Jan 07 18:13 | |
scientes | yeah you probably just are not familiar | Jan 07 18:14 |
scientes | cause that hint should give it away | Jan 07 18:14 |
scientes | i think the problem also is that the matching/not matching is reversed | Jan 07 18:16 |
scientes | the matches are actually the rejects | Jan 07 18:16 |
scientes | this one is not reversed ^.?$|^(..+?)\1+?$ | Jan 07 18:18 |
scientes | anyways, its a prime number sieve | Jan 07 18:18 |
scientes | the sieve of erostates | Jan 07 18:18 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I see. | Jan 07 18:30 |
scientes | I miss when I suffered more | Jan 07 18:51 |
scientes | life was less boring then | Jan 07 18:52 |
scientes | my suffering gave my life meaning | Jan 07 18:52 |
XRevan86 | scientes: matlock showed you the way, you just didn't listen | Jan 07 18:52 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Use Windows 10, give your life meaning once again. | Jan 07 18:52 |
scientes | Solnietzen quoted Pushin, who wrote (translated) "I want to live to think and suffer." | Jan 07 18:53 |
XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusheen Pusheen? | Jan 07 18:54 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Pusheen - Wikipedia | Jan 07 18:54 | |
scientes | Pushkin | Jan 07 18:54 |
XRevan86 | "Я жить хочу, чтоб мыслить и страдать" | Jan 07 18:54 |
psydroid | what I think is so weird is that Canonical people should be encouraging people to use Ubuntu, but instead of that they are encouraging people to use and develop on Windows 10 | Jan 07 18:54 |
scientes | is that a direct quote? | Jan 07 18:54 |
XRevan86 | scientes: yea | Jan 07 18:54 |
psydroid | I am also getting e-mail from Red Hat Developer Networks about .NET stuff | Jan 07 18:55 |
psydroid | if I would be interested in that, I would be running Windows | Jan 07 18:55 |
XRevan86 | psydroid: I know some people who are interested in C# on GNU/Linux. They don't spill what they are smoking. | Jan 07 18:56 |
XRevan86 | scientes: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Elegy_1830_(Pushkin) the sauce | Jan 07 18:57 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikisource.org | Elegy 1830 (Pushkin) - Wikisource, the free online library | Jan 07 18:57 | |
scientes | > The waving sea of the future | Jan 07 18:58 |
scientes | Promises me only toil and sorrow. | Jan 07 18:58 |
XRevan86 | The translation doesn't rhyme, appears to be literal. | Jan 07 18:58 |
scientes | but what if the very reason for the suffering is that the future is so god-damn easy, and thus boring | Jan 07 18:58 |
XRevan86 | no, not literal, but close | Jan 07 18:58 |
scientes | eulogy of who? | Jan 07 18:59 |
scientes | himself? | Jan 07 18:59 |
XRevan86 | scientes: yes | Jan 07 18:59 |
scientes | thats pretty depressive | Jan 07 18:59 |
scientes | writing your own eulogy | Jan 07 18:59 |
scientes | he should get the emo award | Jan 07 18:59 |
XRevan86 | scientes: He was also just 31 at the time of writing | Jan 07 19:00 |
scientes | damn emo | Jan 07 19:00 |
scientes | hell, i'm 30 right now | Jan 07 19:00 |
XRevan86 | and 7 years before his death | Jan 07 19:00 |
scientes | and I actually already went through a mid-life crisis | Jan 07 19:00 |
scientes | when i was 17 | Jan 07 19:00 |
scientes | so i guess its time to write my own eulogy | Jan 07 19:01 |
XRevan86 | Which was the most XIX european death possible | Jan 07 19:01 |
XRevan86 | scientes: He's a poet, so… | Jan 07 19:03 |
XRevan86 | being kind of an emo is in the job description %) | Jan 07 19:03 |
scientes | but not Robert Frost | Jan 07 19:03 |
scientes | he was so cheerful | Jan 07 19:03 |
scientes | but yeah, Shakespeare, certainly | Jan 07 19:04 |
scientes | but that is more the gay thing | Jan 07 19:04 |
scientes | Chaucer too | Jan 07 19:04 |
scientes | what about Faust? | Jan 07 19:05 |
scientes | oh yeah, that is all about angst | Jan 07 19:05 |
scientes | yeah, I see your point | Jan 07 19:05 |
*XRevan86 is trying to find something of Pushkin in French. | Jan 07 19:05 | |
scientes | this is what that Plato cartoon was all about | Jan 07 19:05 |
scientes | http://shakespeare.mit.edu/romeo_juliet/full.html | Jan 07 19:10 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-shakespeare.mit.edu | Romeo and Juliet: Entire Play | Jan 07 19:10 | |
scientes | [To JULIET] If I profane with my unworthiest hand | Jan 07 19:10 |
scientes | For saints have hands that pilgrims' hands do touch, | Jan 07 19:11 |
scientes | And palm to palm is holy palmers' kiss. | Jan 07 19:11 |
scientes | My only love sprung from my only hate! | Jan 07 19:11 |
scientes | Too early seen unknown, and known too late! | Jan 07 19:11 |
scientes | Prodigious birth of love it is to me, | Jan 07 19:11 |
scientes | That I must love a loathed enemy. | Jan 07 19:11 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Should that rhyme? | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | the first is iambic pentameter | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | Good pilgrim, you do wrong your hand too much, | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | Which mannerly devotion shows in this; | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | For saints have hands that pilgrims' hands do touch, | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | And palm to palm is holy palmers' kiss. | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | ABAB | Jan 07 19:12 |
scientes | and it rhymes between the characters too | Jan 07 19:13 |
XRevan86 | "me" and "enemy" don't seem like a good rhyme. | Jan 07 19:13 |
scientes | well, its the same sound | Jan 07 19:14 |
XRevan86 | but not the same stress | Jan 07 19:14 |
scientes | but it could be a pun on enmity | Jan 07 19:15 |
scientes | which is the right stress | Jan 07 19:15 |
scientes | or making im just making stuff up | Jan 07 19:15 |
XRevan86 | But not "mi" | Jan 07 19:15 |
XRevan86 | but "ti" | Jan 07 19:15 |
scientes | but enemy [with enmity] | Jan 07 19:16 |
XRevan86 | and it's not the right stress either | Jan 07 19:16 |
scientes | which is the "only hate" part | Jan 07 19:16 |
scientes | ahh, you can stress it right nowever | Jan 07 19:17 |
XRevan86 | enmitý? | Jan 07 19:17 |
scientes | i don't see the stress problem | Jan 07 19:18 |
scientes | O fortune, fortune! all men call thee fickle: | Jan 07 19:18 |
scientes | If thou art fickle, what dost thou with him. | Jan 07 19:18 |
scientes | That is renown'd for faith? Be fickle, fortune; | Jan 07 19:19 |
scientes | For then, I hope, thou wilt not keep him long, | Jan 07 19:19 |
scientes | But send him back. | Jan 07 19:19 |
XRevan86 | He's Arnold, Arnold, Arnold Rimmer | Jan 07 19:20 |
XRevan86 | Without him life would be much grimmer | Jan 07 19:20 |
XRevan86 | He's handsome, trim and no-one slimmer | Jan 07 19:20 |
XRevan86 | He will never need a Zimmer | Jan 07 19:20 |
scientes | ew | Jan 07 19:21 |
scientes | yeah, so emo | Jan 07 19:21 |
scientes | oh yeah, Red Dwarf was great | Jan 07 19:21 |
scientes | did you actually read that? | Jan 07 19:22 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I saw Red Dwarf | Jan 07 19:22 |
scientes | A canner, exceedingly canny, | Jan 07 19:23 |
scientes | One morning remarked to his granny. | Jan 07 19:23 |
scientes | A canner can can, | Jan 07 19:23 |
scientes | Anything that he can, | Jan 07 19:23 |
scientes | But a canner can't can a can, can he?. | Jan 07 19:23 |
scientes | There once was a man named Brice, | Jan 07 19:25 |
scientes | Who had a nasty head full lice. | Jan 07 19:25 |
scientes | He said, If I eat them, | Jan 07 19:25 |
scientes | Then I'll have beat them! | Jan 07 19:25 |
scientes | And besides they taste very nice | Jan 07 19:25 |
scientes | the problem with these limmericks is that limmericks are suppose to be dirty | Jan 07 19:25 |
XRevan86 | scientes: An expectation subvertive ending | Jan 07 19:26 |
scientes | There was a young sailor from Brighton, Who remarked to his girl, You've a tight one, She replied, "Oh my soul, You're in the wrong hole, There's plenty of room in the right one!" | Jan 07 19:27 |
scientes | there we go! | Jan 07 19:27 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Here also, Brighton and one don't really rhyme. | Jan 07 19:28 |
scientes | thats a semi-rhyme | Jan 07 19:28 |
scientes | they have rhyming dictionaries that list those too | Jan 07 19:28 |
MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975.jpg | Jan 07 19:29 |
XRevan86 | scientes: English is a language with clear vowel reduction and stress, I don't see it work. | Jan 07 19:30 |
XRevan86 | Maybe it did before. | Jan 07 19:30 |
scientes | im use to it | Jan 07 19:30 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Braitn, wan | Jan 07 19:31 |
scientes | and I've read enough rhymes like this I don't wince at all | Jan 07 19:31 |
XRevan86 | scientes: And you said something about method acting %) | Jan 07 19:31 |
XRevan86 | Soviet actors don't act well. Meanwhile: "me" and "enemy" rhyme, why not. | Jan 07 19:33 |
scientes | my favorite really is hamlet | Jan 07 19:35 |
scientes | but i'm not going to paste that here | Jan 07 19:35 |
XRevan86 | let's rhyme Hamlet and Corvette | Jan 07 19:36 |
scientes | whats wrong with that :/ | Jan 07 19:36 |
XRevan86 | :D I'm done | Jan 07 19:37 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Hamlet is like omelette, Corvette is like banquette | Jan 07 19:39 |
XRevan86 | scientes: The syllable on which the stress is on. | Jan 07 19:40 |
scientes | yeah, those made me wince | Jan 07 19:40 |
scientes | I think sometimes the stress is flexible | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | idunno | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | Once I visited France, | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | And learned a new, awesome dance. | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | I twirled, | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | And I swirled, | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | And then I lost my pants. | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | France/pants | Jan 07 19:41 |
scientes | *wince* | Jan 07 19:41 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Here the issue is not stress | Jan 07 19:42 |
scientes | Did you hear about the baguette at the zoo? It was bread in captivity. | Jan 07 19:43 |
XRevan86 | scientes: 1. the way the word "France" is pronounced can vary a lot; 2. "ns" and "nts" is also a questionable rhyme. | Jan 07 19:43 |
danielp3344 | <MinceR "https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975."> that's genius! | Jan 07 19:44 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975 ) | Jan 07 19:44 | |
XRevan86 | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/En-us-France.ogg | Jan 07 19:44 |
XRevan86 | but then, it seems a lot of people do say "frents" | Jan 07 19:44 |
XRevan86 | * "frænts" | Jan 07 19:44 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I can write that off as an accent-specific rhyme. | Jan 07 19:45 |
XRevan86 | Doesn't rhyme when I say it, but hey | Jan 07 19:45 |
scientes | How many apples grow on a tree? All of them. | Jan 07 19:50 |
XRevan86 | scientes: What's the point in having articles when this stuff still happens? %) | Jan 07 19:51 |
scientes | that's why i posted it | Jan 07 19:54 |
scientes | the grammer is interesting | Jan 07 19:54 |
XRevan86 | Well, okay, it doesn't make perfect sense article-wise | Jan 07 19:55 |
XRevan86 | * it does make | Jan 07 19:55 |
scientes | yes it does | Jan 07 19:55 |
XRevan86 | I hate it when I screw up with "not", it's the worst kind of screw-up when meaning is reversed. | Jan 07 19:56 |
scientes | all apples grew on a tree | Jan 07 19:56 |
scientes | the article is fine | Jan 07 19:56 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Should've said "on the tree", yes. | Jan 07 19:56 |
scientes | no, a tree is fine here too | Jan 07 19:56 |
XRevan86 | scientes: I mean, to make a different meaning. | Jan 07 19:57 |
scientes | no, all apples grew on the tree | Jan 07 19:57 |
XRevan86 | scientes: No, they did not. | Jan 07 19:57 |
scientes | but usually that would be for ripen that you would use "the" | Jan 07 19:57 |
XRevan86 | there's just one The Tree, although it should be a specific tree… | Jan 07 19:57 |
scientes | because there the distinction matters | Jan 07 19:57 |
scientes | not true | Jan 07 19:57 |
XRevan86 | and the idea is apples per tree | Jan 07 19:57 |
scientes | we say "Almonds only ripen on the tree." | Jan 07 19:58 |
XRevan86 | scientes: Hm, right. | Jan 07 19:58 |
scientes | the difference between a and the here is that with a it is clear that no apple comes from *two* trees at the same time | Jan 07 19:58 |
scientes | (besides the whole tree sex thing) | Jan 07 19:59 |
scientes | although apples have both sexes | Jan 07 19:59 |
scientes | unlike say, kiwis | Jan 07 20:00 |
scientes | angiosperms are actually insanely complicated | Jan 07 20:04 |
scientes | like some plants have both sexes, but still refuse to mate with the same plant (I am not sure if we understand how this is enforced) | Jan 07 20:04 |
XRevan86 | scientes: a checksum maybe :) | Jan 07 20:04 |
-->craigt (~Icedove@fsf/staff/craigt) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 20:16 | |
<--libertybox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Jan 07 20:40 | |
-->libertybox_ (~schestowi@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 20:40 | |
-->rianne__ (~liberty@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 20:47 | |
<--rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Jan 07 20:50 | |
XRevan86 | scientes: In film when there's a graduation, US citizens always wear black clothes and rectangular hats? It almost feels natural, except… what the heck? And isn't that expensive to get clothes to wear just once? | Jan 07 21:21 |
MinceR | maybe they rent them | Jan 07 21:38 |
MinceR | still extremely impractical | Jan 07 21:38 |
MinceR | and way too formal | Jan 07 21:38 |
XRevan86 | Well, at least it's not as clownish as British judge costumes. | Jan 07 21:39 |
XRevan86 | (the wigs) | Jan 07 21:39 |
MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645837.jpg | Jan 07 21:39 |
MinceR | yeah, that's hard to beat | Jan 07 21:39 |
MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645847.jpg | Jan 07 21:49 |
XRevan86 | MinceR: Merry Christmas | Jan 07 21:50 |
MinceR | scary solstice, XRevan86 | Jan 07 21:51 |
XRevan86 | MinceR: Why is it scayr? | Jan 07 21:53 |
XRevan86 | scary | Jan 07 21:53 |
XRevan86 | You're also off by half a month. | Jan 07 21:54 |
MinceR | no u | Jan 07 22:05 |
MinceR | it's scary because it's a long dark night when the stars are right :> | Jan 07 22:06 |
XRevan86 | MinceR: Where I am the night starts somewhere at 15:30 | Jan 07 22:08 |
XRevan86 | What's so special about the solstice one? | Jan 07 22:08 |
XRevan86 | It's bloody winter. | Jan 07 22:09 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: I know UK and Australian universities the black robes and square hats( I know they are square here could look rectangular on camera) are university owned items that you get to borrow for the day. | Jan 07 22:17 |
oiaohm | Its about 3 days in fact. | Jan 07 22:17 |
XRevan86 | In my defence, squares are rectangular. | Jan 07 22:17 |
oiaohm | On camera uk and Australian ones are turely square and I know they don't look that way. | Jan 07 22:18 |
oiaohm | turely/truely | Jan 07 22:19 |
oiaohm | I would think the USA ones are based on the UK university traditions. | Jan 07 22:20 |
oiaohm | XRevan86: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_academic_cap the mortarboard | Jan 07 22:21 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Square academic cap - Wikipedia | Jan 07 22:21 | |
oiaohm | XRevan86: the thing you see in movies with them throwing the mortarboard hat into the air is forbid at most universities these days as well due to how many have been harmed by it coming down. | Jan 07 22:23 |
cubexyz | the original mortarboard was just a flat piece of wood yes? | Jan 07 22:27 |
cubexyz | it was a stonemason's thing | Jan 07 22:27 |
oiaohm | stonemasons to carry mortar << You do see some bricklayers still use a mortarboard. | Jan 07 22:30 |
oiaohm | cubexyz: https://www.speedcrete.co.uk/fibreglass-mortar-board.html you can still buy them. flat piece of wood is kind of original. But they could have been flat bit of slate as well. | Jan 07 22:32 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.speedcrete.co.uk | Fibreglass Mortar Board | Jan 07 22:32 | |
oiaohm | cubexyz: the hat is a lot smaller. 30 inchs/ ~77cm square for the bricklayers mortarboard. The hat is only 9.25 inchs/24cm square. | Jan 07 22:37 |
<--pav5088 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jan 07 22:45 | |
-->pav5088 (~pav5088@175.39.118.119) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 22:46 | |
Hail_Spacecake | XRevan86: the material of the gowns and hats is pretty cheap | Jan 07 23:17 |
Hail_Spacecake | it's super thin, you wear it over normal clothes | Jan 07 23:18 |
Hail_Spacecake | maybe originally it really was an expensive formal gown or something but when I've stood in graduation ceremonies it was super-cheap stuff | Jan 07 23:18 |
<--craigt has quit (Quit: craigt) | Jan 07 23:29 | |
oiaohm | Hail_Spacecake: the historic ones were not super thick material either. | Jan 07 23:42 |
XRevan86 | Boy so much information | Jan 07 23:44 |
oiaohm | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_dress wikipedia has a fairly good write up on it. | Jan 07 23:47 |
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Academic dress - Wikipedia | Jan 07 23:47 | |
oiaohm | Reality at university there have always been student who can barely afford the course. | Jan 07 23:47 |
oiaohm | Rented Academic dress are just a little above in quality the cheapest you can buy. That is the way its always been. | Jan 07 23:48 |
oiaohm | You can really tell the rich if you look closely because they have the high quality insanely expensive version. | Jan 07 23:49 |
oiaohm | Part of the reaon acedemic dress was designed in the first place to go over you standard clothes is to allow it to be made insanely thin and cheap. | Jan 07 23:50 |
<--schestowitz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Jan 07 23:50 | |
-->schestowitz (~roy@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 23:50 | |
<--schestowitz has quit (Changing host) | Jan 07 23:50 | |
-->schestowitz (~roy@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrights | Jan 07 23:50 | |
XRevan86 | Why did that tradition even start? | Jan 07 23:52 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!