Techrights logo

IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Tuesday, January 07, 2020

Join us now at the IRC channel.

-->amarsh04 (~amarsh04@124-169-186-9.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #techrightsJan 07 00:45
-->gde34 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrightsJan 07 01:25
<--gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Jan 07 01:25
<--amarsh04 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Jan 07 01:56
cubexyzXRevan86, there are some things you just can't learn in schoolJan 07 02:24
cubexyzI taught myself to fix TVs and laserprintersJan 07 02:24
cubexyzbuy maintainance kits, read service manuals, experiment, etc, etcJan 07 02:24
cubexyzall that matters is the result: device fixedJan 07 02:25
cubexyzalso learning something about the operating principals is usefulJan 07 02:25
cubexyzs/principal/principle/Jan 07 02:26
cubexyzwhile I'm talking about fixing stuff I have to say some of the 1980s and 1990s electronics was more durableJan 07 02:29
cubexyznot all of it of course, but some of itJan 07 02:29
cubexyzsome of the Dell computers were surprisingly good, like GX110Jan 07 02:29
cubexyzjust didn't get very hot so it lasts a long timeJan 07 02:30
MinceRhttps://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/11/80716a2d36f9049f.jpgJan 07 02:35
danielp3344lolzJan 07 02:36
danielp3344I've decided for something to count as 'art' it at least needs to look like it took a lot of workJan 07 02:37
cubexyzreplace the word hipster with poser I'd sayJan 07 02:38
scientesXRevan86, merry christmasJan 07 03:07
DaemonFC[m]They change your grade if you find more money.Jan 07 03:49
DaemonFC[m]College is a scam.Jan 07 03:49
scientesDean of student involvementJan 07 03:59
scientesDean of homosexual studiesJan 07 04:00
scientesDean of minoritiesJan 07 04:00
scientesProfessor of womens studiesJan 07 04:00
scientesDaemonFC[m], I have found that if you actually study they see you as a threatJan 07 04:01
scientesas you might them look badJan 07 04:02
scientes*make themJan 07 04:02
<--Hail_Spacecake has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 07 04:07
-->Hail_Spacecake (~weechat@lobsters/users/hailspacecake/x-84238744) has joined #techrightsJan 07 04:08
schestowitz[03:49] <DaemonFC[m]> College is a scam.Jan 07 04:43
schestowitzwhen it's as expensive as it is in the USJan 07 04:43
schestowitzfree college can raise skills levels in countriesJan 07 04:43
scientesschestowitz, anything but free college (in this industrial age) ruins the culture, and the result is zero educationJan 07 07:33
scientesmy neighbor brought me some christmas wine, really made my dayJan 07 07:36
scientesXRevan86, did you know that Aristophanes in _Clouds_ makes fun of Socrates?Jan 07 07:37
scientesthis reminded me https://existentialcomics.com/comic/323Jan 07 07:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Plato Produces a Play - Existential ComicsJan 07 07:37
scientesThe funny thing is that I use to be that PlatoJan 07 07:38
scienteswhen it came to criticizing video games for not being realisticJan 07 07:38
scientesmeh, the other comics on this site are not as goodJan 07 07:43
scientesmaybe its cause all these philosophers are really boringJan 07 07:44
scienteslike this one: "John Locke gave us one of the first modern theories of language, well before philosophy of language really took off. He more or less described language as a representation of the ideas of the speaker, rather than referring to external objects in the world. So if someone talks about a tree, the word "tree" doesn't strictly refer to a concrete object that exists, but only represents the idea of a tree in the mind of a person Jan 07 07:44
scientesattempting to communicate. According to this view, mistakes in understanding language are mistakes in correctly interpreting the intent or ideas of the speaker."Jan 07 07:44
scientesexcept in Gulliver's Travels, Johnathan Swift makes really good fun of all the grammer studiesJan 07 07:44
scientesand he is rightJan 07 07:44
scientesonly Chomsky finially came up with something that made any sense at all, and it still has some holesJan 07 07:44
scientes(and most people don't really get what regular languages and regular expressions are all about)Jan 07 07:45
scienteshttps://existentialcomics.com/comic/313Jan 07 07:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Marxist Financial Advice - Existential ComicsJan 07 07:50
scientesok, that one is more like itJan 07 07:50
scientesexcept it is more like half of income on rentJan 07 07:55
scientesand it is so bad that the permanent residency (green card) phamphlet apologizes for itJan 07 07:56
schestowitz[07:33] <scientes> schestowitz, anything but free college (in this industrial age) ruins the culture, and the result is zero educationJan 07 07:56
schestowitzdeplorablesJan 07 07:56
schestowitzproudly evenJan 07 07:56
scientesalong with telling people to not to hitch hikeJan 07 07:56
schestowitzsurrounded by the likes of themJan 07 07:56
schestowitzstupidity is like obesityJan 07 07:56
schestowitzit becomes normal and not shameful when it spreads like a disease into normalcyJan 07 07:57
scientesschestowitz, i'm missing the contextJan 07 07:57
scientes<schestowitz> surrounded by the likes of themJan 07 07:57
scienteslikes of who?Jan 07 07:57
scientesother rich lazy people?Jan 07 07:57
schestowitzignorance breeding ignoranceJan 07 07:57
scientesthey are not really stupid, just lazy and ignorantJan 07 07:57
schestowitzthey cannot afford higher educationJan 07 07:58
schestowitzUS colleges are too expensiveJan 07 07:58
Hail_Spacecakescientes: most people don't need to care about regular languages and regular expressionsJan 07 07:58
schestowitznothing to do with laziness but classJan 07 07:58
scientesexcept the colleges don't have education schestowitz Jan 07 07:58
scientesthey are all protests against "microagressions"Jan 07 07:58
schestowitzsome join the ARMY... for 'free' collegeJan 07 07:58
scientesHail_Spacecake, but even people in computer scienceJan 07 07:58
schestowitzkill people, get education in return...Jan 07 07:58
scientesschestowitz, the U.S. *never* cared about educationJan 07 07:58
Hail_SpacecakeI would expect a computer scientist to know what a regular expression isJan 07 07:58
scientesit was only to compete with the soviet unionJan 07 07:58
scientesand once the soviet union went away, lots of science funding disappearedJan 07 07:59
Hail_Spacecakein the sense that they can use them in practice and know a little bit of the theory at leastJan 07 07:59
scientesbecause there was no enemyJan 07 07:59
scientesno competitionJan 07 07:59
Hail_Spacecakeand the theory is the chomsky heirarchyJan 07 07:59
scientesthe enemy became the people againJan 07 07:59
schestowitzi cJan 07 07:59
Hail_Spacecakeon the other hand, I don't remember exactly what all four levels of the heirarchy are offhandJan 07 07:59
scientesHail_Spacecake, only the bottom (regular) and top (turing complete) are importantJan 07 07:59
Hail_Spacecakeregular, context-free, context-sensitive, whatever you call the one that natural language (probably) isJan 07 07:59
scientesbecause the heirarchy is still lacking some stuffJan 07 08:00
scientesHail_Spacecake, turing completeJan 07 08:00
Hail_Spacecakewell, context-free grammars are importantJan 07 08:00
Hail_Spacecakein that most programming languages are deisgned to have CFGs for ease of parsingJan 07 08:00
scientesexcept there isn't a good way to describe them formallyJan 07 08:00
Hail_SpacecakeBNF doesn't work for you?Jan 07 08:01
scientesonly regular expressions have a good syntax to describe themJan 07 08:01
Hail_SpacecakeI'm not sure if the standard syntax for regular expressions is goodJan 07 08:01
scientesi'm talking about something like re2Jan 07 08:02
Hail_SpacecakeI've often thought that regex notation could be betterJan 07 08:02
scientesit isn't that badJan 07 08:02
scientesespecially if you get a editor that syntax highlights it for youJan 07 08:04
-->namber (~luca@host36-31-static.15-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #techrightsJan 07 08:48
<--aindilis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)Jan 07 09:47
psydroid<cubexyz "some of the Dell computers were "> I used my Dell Latitude C600 laptop for 10 years until it finally broke. I have to see how long this similar-class but much newer HP laptop will last, it had the motherboard and the screen replaced within 6 months. But things have been good for the past 3 years or so.Jan 07 10:29
scientes10 years!Jan 07 10:35
scientesthat is impressiveJan 07 10:35
scientesgeeze, my efi partition is 512mbJan 07 10:37
scienteswhat a wasteJan 07 10:37
scientesi need to be like 5mbJan 07 10:37
XRevan86scientes: I did not know that.Jan 07 10:38
scienteswhat? that it is christmas? :)Jan 07 10:39
XRevan86Neither did I read it %).Jan 07 10:39
XRevan86scientes: No, The Clouds.Jan 07 10:39
scientesoh yesJan 07 10:39
XRevan86scientes: To Christmas I can only say "meh".Jan 07 10:39
scientesAristophanes plays are excellentJan 07 10:39
scientesXRevan86, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYYQIn_sC-4Jan 07 10:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Aristophanes' Frogs (Cambridge Greek Play 2013) - YouTubeJan 07 10:40
scientesthere others are excellent too, but the version you find on YouTube are mehJan 07 10:40
scientesCambridge also did Lyistrata in 2017, but they didn't put it up (booooooo)Jan 07 10:40
scientesthis looks good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYY88WNC_1QJan 07 10:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Lysistrata - YouTubeJan 07 10:42
scientesoh no that is super weird, they did women-only castJan 07 10:42
scientesso you have women wearing erection costumesJan 07 10:42
scientesoh no, i'm confusedJan 07 10:43
Hail_SpacecakeI wonder if anyone has done an all-male LysistrataJan 07 10:46
scientesewwwwwJan 07 10:46
scientesgay lysistrataJan 07 10:46
scientesle bumsexJan 07 10:46
scientesa le grecJan 07 10:46
psydroidI remember reading Aristophanes's "Clouds" (Nephelai) in Greek classJan 07 10:53
scientesyou took greek?Jan 07 10:53
psydroidmy final year reading material was Sophocles's AntigoneJan 07 10:53
scientescoolJan 07 10:53
psydroidyesJan 07 10:53
scientesyeah, I don't like the non-funny stuffJan 07 10:53
scientesexcept Plato and Homer, that isJan 07 10:53
psydroidand Latin, but I dropped it because I already had 9 subjects for my examsJan 07 10:54
psydroidand was doing sports, I didn't want to spend all my time on schoolworkJan 07 10:54
psydroidwe did lots of Plato and Homer as well, but in the third yearJan 07 10:55
psydroidI have the Iliad here, I still have to find some copy of the OdysseeJan 07 10:55
scientesso could you talk to people on the street in Greece?Jan 07 10:57
psydroidI also have ##ancientgreek registered, although it's mostly a dead place as I can't spend much of my time revising it myself and the channel members mostly can't be bothered to do the minimum to get familiar with the languageJan 07 10:57
scientes(I know modern is different from ancient)Jan 07 10:57
psydroidyes, I learned Modern Greek myself during the last two years of high school as I took Ancient GreekJan 07 10:57
scientespsydroid, and did you see that Cambridge performance is in the ancient greek?Jan 07 10:58
psydroidI spoke it yesterday actually to some Indians who used to live on CorfuJan 07 10:58
scientesit was so hard (still havent adapted) to realize this isn't the Americas, where there is only 4 languagesJan 07 10:59
psydroidscientes, I will watch it, although I doubt I will understand much of it nowJan 07 10:59
scientesof which 2 are very similar (Spanish and Portugese)Jan 07 10:59
psydroidoh yeahJan 07 10:59
psydroidit's a bit of a double-edged sword, thoughJan 07 10:59
psydroidwhen I am in Amsterdam and I hear people speaking all these languages and I understand what they are all saying, it can become a bit overwhelming at timesJan 07 11:00
psydroidit's not as if you can unlearn what you once learnedJan 07 11:00
scienteshehehe, I wouldn't think of that as one of the disadvantagesJan 07 11:00
scientesI already know that people are usually talking about drivel, even if it sounds cool when you don't understand itJan 07 11:01
psydroidwhat bothers me the most is that I can't seem to become really fluent in most of the languages I learned, that takes actual effort to inundate yourself in the language and the culture associated with itJan 07 11:02
scientesand here outside of europe there are lots of people that cant communicateJan 07 11:03
psydroidyes, that's mostly the caseJan 07 11:03
scientespsydroid, can't you just learn from books?Jan 07 11:04
scientesoh yeah, I read a book on Dutch history translated from the DutchJan 07 11:06
psydroidscientes, I can, that's not the issue. I just need to take the effort to focus on just 1 or 2 languages and leave the rest, but that's a "hard" thing to doJan 07 11:06
scienteshttps://www.amazon.com/Dutch-Republic-Seventeenth-Century-Golden/dp/0521604605Jan 07 11:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLEJan 07 11:07
psydroidI will try to get hold of itJan 07 11:07
scientesthis also looks good, but it is way too expensive https://www.amazon.com/Guilds-Innovation-European-Economy-1400-1800/dp/0521153913/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1578395230&refinements=p_27%3AMaarten+Prak&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Maarten+PrakJan 07 11:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLEJan 07 11:08
psydroidI think this would be really interesting to read, for me at leastJan 07 11:10
psydroidhttps://www.amazon.com/Republican-Alternative-Netherlands-Switzerland-Compared/dp/9089640053Jan 07 11:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.amazon.com | NO TITLEJan 07 11:10
scientescoolJan 07 11:10
scientesespecially now that I know he is a decent authorJan 07 11:10
psydroidyeahJan 07 11:11
scienteshttps://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3APrak%2C+Maarten+Roy%2C&dblist=638&fq=ln%3Adut&qt=facet_ln%3AJan 07 11:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Results for 'au:Prak, Maarten Roy,' > 'Dutch' [WorldCat.org]Jan 07 11:14
scienteshe wrote quite a few that were not translatedJan 07 11:14
scientesoh no, they were all translatedJan 07 11:15
scienteshttps://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3APrak%2C+Maarten+Roy%2C&qt=hot_authorJan 07 11:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Results for 'au:Prak, Maarten Roy,' [WorldCat.org]Jan 07 11:15
scientescool, I can get this on in Tblisi https://www.worldcat.org/title/early-modern-capitalism-economic-and-social-change-in-europe-1400-1800/oclc/1124366027&referer=brief_resultsJan 07 11:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Early modern capitalism economic and social change in Europe, 1400-1800 (eBook, 2014) [WorldCat.org]Jan 07 11:17
psydroidI don't have that many Dutch books, but I think these may be worth itJan 07 11:17
psydroidof course I will only order them, when I have a new jobJan 07 11:18
scientesheheJan 07 11:18
scientesone at a time hahaJan 07 11:18
scientesyou can also just go to a library....Jan 07 11:18
psydroidI have quite a library over here accumulated from all the places I've to over the yearsJan 07 11:18
psydroidyeahJan 07 11:18
psydroidthat's what I do sometimesJan 07 11:18
scientesI hardly ever buy booksJan 07 11:19
scientesbut i did buy that one, cause I was so hungering to read in english after being in south america and unable to get english booksJan 07 11:19
psydroidare spanish books cheap in south america?Jan 07 11:20
scientesvery cheapJan 07 11:20
psydroidI asked a friend from uruguay once and he told me he didn't knowJan 07 11:20
scientesi got La Vualva El Mundo en 80 Dias for like 20 bolivianosJan 07 11:21
scientesor $3Jan 07 11:21
psydroidthat's how I bought quite a few computer books in English in India when I went there or when my mother wentJan 07 11:22
psydroidohJan 07 11:22
scientesbut the books are no very seriousJan 07 11:22
scientesthe serious stuff is all in english or russian (!)Jan 07 11:22
psydroidI know a lot of russian professors went to teach in south americaJan 07 11:23
scientesby which i mean technicalJan 07 11:23
scientesbut I don't really know what i am talking aboutJan 07 11:23
psydroidso it's not like in spain, I guessJan 07 11:23
psydroidmaybe it also depends where you areJan 07 11:23
scientesthere was just a book sale in La Paz, and there were some...oh no they were translated from Russian to SpanishJan 07 11:24
scientesabout geology and miningJan 07 11:24
scienteslooked really interestingJan 07 11:24
psydroidare local people themselves interested in those?Jan 07 11:25
scientesI just love book salesJan 07 11:26
scientesand look at everything :)Jan 07 11:26
scientesalso saw a picture of Hugo Chavez reading Faust Jan 07 11:26
psydroidI can spend hours at book stores and stands, I even went to some book fairs in Poland when I lived there (like Cracow and Warsaw)Jan 07 11:27
scientesI also take note of personal librariesJan 07 11:29
scienteshere in Batumi there is an "american corner" of the library run by the U.S. Embassy, however it doesn't really have real books, just an anthology of the Bronte sistersJan 07 11:30
scientesbut they do have laptops that people can use while they are thereJan 07 11:31
scienteswhich is a pretty big deal considering a laptop is kinda expensive hereJan 07 11:31
psydroidwhat is the average monthly wage in Georgia?Jan 07 11:32
scientesnot sure (and those numbers are means and thus not very useful)Jan 07 11:32
scientesbut the pension is 500 lari, or about 180 USDJan 07 11:33
scientes175Jan 07 11:33
scienteshowever considers are really good in this countryJan 07 11:35
scientesI would say it is better than the USJan 07 11:35
psydroidI can see how that makes buying laptops and the likes not something everyone can affordJan 07 11:35
psydroidyesJan 07 11:35
scientespsydroid, also Chromebooks are only sold in countries that can afford full-priced laptopsJan 07 11:35
scientesfucking assholesJan 07 11:35
psydroidafter your experiences living outside of the US would you consider going back to live there?Jan 07 11:36
scientesneverJan 07 11:36
scientes*conditionsJan 07 11:36
psydroidI think used laptops and things like Pinebook (Pro) should be considered for developing countries, it's an artificial divide to keep people with low incomes dumb and impoverishedJan 07 11:37
psydroidI see a lot of laptops with inferior specs being sold for 1000 euros and moreJan 07 11:38
scientespsydroid, except they have to know those existJan 07 11:38
scientesbasically, Google wants everyone to be a slave through androidJan 07 11:38
scientesthey don't want them to have laptopsJan 07 11:38
scientesthey only sell the chromebook to fuck with microsoftJan 07 11:38
scientesat least this country has internet neutralityJan 07 11:39
scientesbolivia had it tooJan 07 11:39
psydroidI have and Android tablet and yesterday, as I was importing my YouTube subscriptions and playlists through NewPipe, my account got flagged and now I am getting a Recaptcha dialog all the timeJan 07 11:39
psydroidwhich doesn't work, because I completely disabled ChromeJan 07 11:40
scientestablets are shitJan 07 11:40
scientesthey are completely useful for everything IMHOJan 07 11:40
scientes*uselessJan 07 11:40
psydroidI use this one to read books mainlyJan 07 11:40
scientesbut yeah, YouTube just added a download featureJan 07 11:40
scientesbecause they were becoming irrelevent without itJan 07 11:40
scienteslike they had to add a offline mode to maps because of OsmANDJan 07 11:40
scientesthey do extensive research, and only are as useful as it takes to stay releventJan 07 11:41
scientesalso ReCAPCHA is a fraudulent programJan 07 11:41
scientesas it basically is just a 'signed in? whitelist' programJan 07 11:42
psydroidI only use 2 things from Google, Gmail throwaway mail accounts and YouTubeJan 07 11:42
psydroidyesJan 07 11:42
psydroidand it doesn't work with Firefox Fennec (+ Ublock Origin and NoScript Suite), which I have installed everywhereJan 07 11:42
scientesI also have yandex hosting my domain nameJan 07 11:42
scientesi just cant do a email server cause the spam problem is too horribleJan 07 11:43
psydroidthat's my issue tooJan 07 11:43
scientesbut yandex with host your domain so you can at least own the nameJan 07 11:43
psydroidI can do an e-mail server, but only for highly trusted contactsJan 07 11:43
scientes*willJan 07 11:43
scientesyou could also forward to them, and have cetain contacts not forwardJan 07 11:43
scientesbut i haven't bothered to set up something so fancyJan 07 11:44
psydroida friend of mine did it and told me he would help me if I had any issues, but I told him I would look into it later this yearJan 07 11:44
scientesits not that difficult, however the spam is impossibleJan 07 11:45
scientesand not worth your timeJan 07 11:45
scientesalso don't bother with IMAPJan 07 11:45
scientesjust use ssh+mutt+MailldirJan 07 11:45
scientesIMAP is too slow anywaysJan 07 11:45
scientesor fetchmail if you really need localJan 07 11:45
psydroidbut yes, I would rather run pure GNU/Linux on mobile devices tooJan 07 11:45
scientesthat is all about developmentJan 07 11:46
psydroidI think that's where all of these Android variants are missing the point imhoJan 07 11:46
scientesI mainly use my phone for studying languagesJan 07 11:46
scientesand GNU/Linux is the only thing that can fix the real problem: AndroidJan 07 11:46
scienteswhich can't even mount a fucking SD card rightJan 07 11:46
psydroidwe should be working on freeing devices and making them run mainline kernels and whatever userland we wantJan 07 11:47
scientesyes, Pinephone + PostmarketOS is working on it rightJan 07 11:47
scientesbut I donJan 07 11:47
scientest have time for that stuffJan 07 11:47
psydroidneither do I, at least not anytime soonJan 07 11:48
scienteshttps://siguza.github.io/PAN/Jan 07 11:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-siguza.github.io | github subdomainJan 07 11:51
scienteshahahahahahahahahaJan 07 11:51
scientesCPU bugJan 07 11:51
scientesbig fat CPU bugJan 07 11:51
psydroidthat's probably applicable to my machines too, I'll have to test it laterJan 07 12:00
scientesI really don't get the iphone jailbreak sceneJan 07 12:02
scientesits kinda like the crusadesJan 07 12:03
psydroidneither do IJan 07 12:03
scientesyou just WANT to do it the hard wayJan 07 12:03
psydroidI don't even get the hackintosh scene, although that may be useful in some scenariosJan 07 12:04
scientesthat is different, but it is a waste of time now that the software is completely utterly irrelevent for everythingJan 07 12:04
scienteseven irrelevent to AppleJan 07 12:05
scienteslike they just added a bunch of student imcompatible changes (removing /usr/include) which I heard about because I am in #zigJan 07 12:06
scienteshowever no-one really caredJan 07 12:06
scientesthey just drop OSX supportJan 07 12:06
scientes*stupidJan 07 12:06
scientesI certainly will with distccJan 07 12:06
oiaohmReally even that is it marked as fixed with Linux kernel how long until all amd64 running old kernels of Linux get updates.Jan 07 12:19
oiaohmwith a lot of android devices most likely never.Jan 07 12:19
schestowitz[11:51] <scientes> big fat CPU bugJan 07 12:21
schestowitzThey ship when  it runsJan 07 12:21
schestowitznot when it's testedJan 07 12:21
schestowitznow when it worksJan 07 12:21
schestowitzthis is how they meet quarterly targets for shareholdersJan 07 12:21
XRevan86oiaohm: Old kernels are doomed either way.Jan 07 12:22
oiaohmschestowitz: Its not just that you can do all the testing in the world and if those tests are not written to hit the fault it will never show a problem.Jan 07 12:23
oiaohmDesign and making a cpu is complex but the harder part is making the conformance suite so you can be sure it in fact works right.Jan 07 12:24
psydroidanything that doesn't run the mainline kernel is doomed and that means mostly Android devicesJan 07 12:26
oiaohmpsydroid: that includes a lot of Linux distributions on the desktop and general server,  Fairly much everything iOT as well.Jan 07 12:27
oiaohmNothing like swimming in a pool if insecurity.Jan 07 12:27
oiaohmhttps://www.cnet.com/news/facebooks-first-ces-reveal-in-years-is-a-privacy-tool-that-falls-short/   Facebook trying to work out how to get regulators happy and still keep havesting as much data as possible.Jan 07 12:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facebook's first CES reveal in years is a privacy tool that falls short - CNETJan 07 12:29
scientespsydroid, actually even mainline is pretty insecureJan 07 12:29
scientesif you need security you need to use seL4, and use it correctlyJan 07 12:29
scientesits more about the competency needed to hack itJan 07 12:30
scientesthat is why Linus is right to not single out security patchesJan 07 12:30
scientescause linux is horrible insecureJan 07 12:30
scientesespecially if you are using DRMJan 07 12:30
scientesor even just have a usb portJan 07 12:31
scientesits better than everything like it, but that doesn't mean it is secureJan 07 12:32
oiaohmthere was a really good presentation why you should not cherry pick security patches with the Linux kernel.Jan 07 12:32
oiaohmscientes: https://kernel-recipes.org/en/2019/talks/cves-are-dead-long-live-the-cve/ that is by greg.Jan 07 12:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-kernel-recipes.org | CVEs are dead, long live the CVE! | Kernel Recipes 2019Jan 07 12:33
psydroidscientes, I know, that's why I am more interested in microkernels such as seL4 myself too, I attended a lot of talks in the microkernel room at FOSDEM last yearJan 07 12:33
oiaohmThe fact is the Linux kernel does not openly special label security faults.Jan 07 12:33
psydroidI don't know if I will make it this yearJan 07 12:33
oiaohmsel4 is as secure as what is is not because its a microkernel but due to its auditing process.Jan 07 12:34
scientesit is also fastJan 07 12:34
oiaohmDoing a full device to csiro data61 standard is hell load of work.Jan 07 12:35
psydroidI met and talked to jermar, who is also involved in helenosJan 07 12:35
oiaohmhttps://data61.csiro.au/en/Our-Research/Focus-Areas/Cybersecurity  the Cross Domain Desktop Compositor (CDDC) product, is interesting beast to sit at.Jan 07 12:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-data61.csiro.au | Cybersecurity - Data61Jan 07 12:37
oiaohmYes 3 different computers with 3 different screen output connected to one box being merged into a single screen output.Jan 07 12:37
oiaohmwith single keyboard and mouse.Jan 07 12:38
riannehttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-death-evidence-points-21227499 murder or suicide?Jan 07 12:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mirror.co.uk | Jeffrey Epstein death evidence 'points to murder' as neck injuries 'unlike' hanging - Mirror OnlineJan 07 12:44
oiaohmrianne: really I would not be supprised if it paid for execution.  Number of people jeffrey epstein could be a problem for if he talked fully is insanely long and lots of them insanely rich.Jan 07 12:48
rianneoiaohm: this is something that we need to watch for, there will be more to come out I guess.Jan 07 12:52
schestowitz https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates.htmlJan 07 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Bill Gates Met With Jeffrey Epstein Many Times, Despite His Past - The New York TimesJan 07 12:54
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16925494Jan 07 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Habibi, should have put him down a tandoori oven... makes the wounds harder to assess..."Jan 07 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- Photo by schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: https://joindiaspora.com/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6e8e2792f1816ac90929.jpegJan 07 12:54
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16925476Jan 07 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Condolences to #billgates whose beloved BFF #epstein was murdered https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/jeffrey-epstein-death-evidence-points-21227499 murder or suicide? http://techrights.org/2019/12/29/media-reports-gates-mansion-pedophilia/Jan 07 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Mansion of Pedophilia – Part V: When Media Reports a Story One Year Late and When All Journalists Are on Holiday, Then Removes Video Reports (When Many People Notice Them) | TechrightsJan 07 12:54
schestowitzoiaohm: http://techrights.org/2019/12/28/gates-foundation-exodus/Jan 07 12:55
schestowitzcites you a bit http://techrights.org/2019/12/28/gates-foundation-exodus/Jan 07 12:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mansion of Pedophilia – Part IV: An Apparent Gates Foundation Exodus During Pedophilia Trial | TechrightsJan 07 12:55
oiaohmschestowitz: really bill gates would be on the smaller fish side.Jan 07 13:01
schestowitzI knowJan 07 13:01
schestowitzlikely nor directly involvedJan 07 13:01
schestowitzin the pedopheliaJan 07 13:01
schestowitzbut awake of itJan 07 13:01
schestowitzand keeping it undercoverJan 07 13:01
schestowitz*aware of itJan 07 13:01
schestowitzconsidering who was around himJan 07 13:01
schestowitzeven AFTER the arrestJan 07 13:01
oiaohmI was meaning people Jeffrey Epstein knew.Jan 07 13:01
scientesoh geezeJan 07 13:01
scienteswhen people start taling about "the children" they have ulterior motivesJan 07 13:02
schestowitzgates did Jan 07 13:02
schestowitzas the foundationJan 07 13:02
schestowitzall that "the children" BSJan 07 13:02
schestowitze.g. when pushing GMO in africaJan 07 13:02
schestowitzand gsk's overpriced products in indiaJan 07 13:02
schestowitzall this whole gates invested in the companies behind those thingsJan 07 13:03
oiaohmhttps://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/jeffrey-epsteins-black-book-trump-clintons-prince-andrew.html  << this kind of has the nightmare list.Jan 07 13:03
schestowitzanyway, more people will see how cynical a ploy it was he he knowingly remains close to a trafickerJan 07 13:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cnbc.com | Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book: Trump, Clintons, Prince AndrewJan 07 13:03
oiaohmWith the people on that list I was supprised once caught that jeffrey epstein was not quickly dead.Jan 07 13:04
schestowitzhttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-interview.htmlJan 07 13:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | The Day Jeffrey Epstein Told Me He Had Dirt on Powerful People - The New York TimesJan 07 13:04
oiaohmExactly that there is like asking to die.Jan 07 13:04
*schestowitz sees no need for a "techrights cares about the children" PR campaignJan 07 13:05
scientesschestowitz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFBHBMatXkJan 07 13:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cute kids perform Belt and Road song - YouTubeJan 07 13:07
oiaohmAlso you have to wonder with that contact list how much of the dirt has been driving the media reporting.    As in X people need better media coverage because they have dirt on someone who might hurt us.Jan 07 13:09
oiaohmThe probem I have I really think jeffrey epstein is just tip of very large iceberg.Jan 07 13:10
oiaohmThat there is going to be a lot of pressure not to investigate and prosecute.Jan 07 13:11
scientesoiaohm, but look at those cute kids singing about how china is making us all prosperousJan 07 13:11
scientes(particularly Africa)Jan 07 13:13
scientesand also South AmericaJan 07 13:13
oiaohmscientes: that song is a warning.Jan 07 13:14
scientesbut they are so *cute*Jan 07 13:14
oiaohmIts based on a old china song of the silk road.Jan 07 13:15
scientesthose cute things couldn't possibly be agressiveJan 07 13:15
schestowitzdefaulting nationsJan 07 13:15
schestowitzfor the kidsJan 07 13:15
schestowitzesp. in AfricaJan 07 13:15
schestowitz2 million Chinese nations there nowJan 07 13:15
schestowitznot just building infrastructureJan 07 13:15
oiaohmInteresting enough there is a internalation translation error.Jan 07 13:15
schestowitzI reckon the banker types too... men with tiesJan 07 13:15
oiaohmbelt in the old song is the chinise word for military.Jan 07 13:16
scienteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlAb-GfeoykJan 07 13:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Is China DESTROYING Africa? - YouTubeJan 07 13:16
oiaohmscientes: its not that straight forwards.Jan 07 13:18
schestowitzkaniini: any eta for pleroma.site?Jan 07 13:19
oiaohmscientes: there are some horrible china cultural things.   https://supchina.com/2018/02/23/china-has-no-problem-with-racism-and-thats-a-problem/   << This is the nightmare.Jan 07 13:21
schestowitz2 years later... still nothing https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora/issues/7494Jan 07 13:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-China has no problem with racism, and that's a problem - SupChinaJan 07 13:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Automatically Cross-Post to Mastodon · Issue #7494 · diaspora/diaspora · GitHubJan 07 13:22
schestowitzDeadSuperHero  (Sean) is in thereJan 07 13:22
oiaohmscientes: heck being anti chinese people and being in china is classed as acceptable.   They are more offended if you hide you disdain. Jan 07 13:23
oiaohmscientes: I would say china nightmare culture problem is distroying a lot of places.   Even places a lot closer to china.Jan 07 13:24
oiaohmIt really simple to forget the mega damage European racism people did.   China unfortunately still has a percent of there population who are that racist and will ignore countries laws of those they class as inferior.   Jan 07 13:26
oiaohmYes rasist with money is a big problem.Jan 07 13:26
oiaohmChina is not the only country that could be a source of asses like this.Jan 07 13:27
<--gde34 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Jan 07 13:28
-->gde33 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrightsJan 07 13:28
oiaohmhttps://www.ifixit.com/News/apple-is-bullying-a-security-company-with-a-dangerous-dmca-lawsuit   this is a mess.Jan 07 13:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Apple Is Bullying a Security Company with a Dangerous DMCA Lawsuit - iFixitJan 07 13:38
schestowitzyes, bad. Put one article about this in techrights...Jan 07 13:40
schestowitzunder "drm"Jan 07 13:40
schestowitznot a perfect fit, but..Jan 07 13:40
schestowitzkaniini: will this work? https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/issues/242Jan 07 13:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.pleroma.social | Granted scopes "follow read write" differ from requested scopes "read write" (#242) · Issues · Pleroma / pleroma · GitLabJan 07 13:44
scientesits not even a book https://www.worldcat.org/title/early-modern-capitalism-economic-and-social-change-in-europe-1400-1800/oclc/1124366027&referer=brief_resultsJan 07 14:25
scientesits just a pdf behind a pay wallJan 07 14:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Early modern capitalism economic and social change in Europe, 1400-1800 (eBook, 2014) [WorldCat.org]Jan 07 14:25
scientesAaron Swartz pointed out that this shit kills peopleJan 07 14:26
scienteshe only has 5 actual booksJan 07 14:26
scientesthey need to purge all fake books from that databaseJan 07 14:27
scientesto keep their legitimacyJan 07 14:27
schestowitzI never spoke to himJan 07 14:37
schestowitznow it's too lateJan 07 14:37
schestowitznow it's too latJan 07 14:37
schestowitz(I mean speak in general, about anything...)Jan 07 14:37
oiaohmscientes: really its even very simple to get a printed book these days.Jan 07 15:00
oiaohmIts not like when publishing houses had limited capacity had to be selective on what is published.Jan 07 15:01
scientesoiaohm, I know they hae print on demand these daysJan 07 15:08
scientesbut it doesn't fix the copyright mafiaaJan 07 15:08
scientesthere are plenty of books you cant get but are still in copyrightJan 07 15:08
scientes(especially considering that copyright is a few lifetimes these days)Jan 07 15:09
scientes100 years ago it only lasted 20 yearsJan 07 15:09
-->aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrightsJan 07 15:12
scientesfucking Matthew GarratJan 07 15:15
scienteshe should change his legal name to Social Justice WarriorJan 07 15:15
scientesits not like I go out of my way to be bothered by that sharpened-penis eitherJan 07 15:15
scienteshttps://lwn.net/Articles/808575/Jan 07 15:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 403 @ https://lwn.net/Articles/808575/ )Jan 07 15:16
scientesthis time he is making up shit about something he is not an expert in (random number generators)Jan 07 15:16
scienteslast year it was praising Windows security as vastly better than Linux securityJan 07 15:16
MinceRhttps://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/11/99a850e3db5a27f4.mp4Jan 07 15:27
schestowitzcute!Jan 07 15:29
schestowitzI worried they'd get stuckJan 07 15:29
XRevan86schestowitz: They're professionalsJan 07 15:32
schestowitzthey catch bilogasJan 07 15:33
schestowitzbelugasJan 07 15:33
schestowitzwait, how is that spelt?Jan 07 15:33
MinceRbelugaJan 07 15:33
schestowitzone escaped for freedom... from St. Petersburg Jan 07 15:34
schestowitzwith gear on her/himJan 07 15:34
schestowitzand some thought it was a Russian spy belugaJan 07 15:34
schestowitzXRevan86 might be familiar with that storyJan 07 15:34
schestowitzit was used for therapy with disabled people iircJan 07 15:35
*XRevan86 heard about it, yes.Jan 07 15:35
MinceRgood thing none of the sharks with fucking lasers attached to their heads escapedJan 07 15:35
schestowitzlolJan 07 15:35
schestowitzdid Trump scape?Jan 07 15:35
MinceRdepends on from whereJan 07 15:35
schestowitzAlso, I didn't know they attacked lasers to his cabinetJan 07 15:35
schestowitzattachedJan 07 15:36
schestowitzhumans would likely figure out how to do beluga 'cockfights'Jan 07 15:36
schestowitzwith razor blades and allJan 07 15:36
schestowitzlike bull 'fight' 'entertainment'Jan 07 15:36
scientesXRevan86, did you do anything for christmas?Jan 07 15:40
XRevan86scientes: Screamed "Exist god does not" from the window (not really).Jan 07 15:42
XRevan86Finally updated ejabberd to 19.09.1.Jan 07 15:45
scientes<XRevan86> Finally updated ejabberd to 19.09.1.Jan 07 15:46
scienteshehJan 07 15:46
<--namber has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)Jan 07 15:46
scientesdamn, doesn't seem anyone put up that scene where Pierre (Henry Fonda) is drinking in the frame of a windowJan 07 15:47
scientesin War and PeaceJan 07 15:47
scientesshouting "exist god does not" :)Jan 07 15:47
XRevan86scientes: What? :)Jan 07 15:48
scientesi made up the last partJan 07 15:48
MinceR"i'm mad as hell, and i'm not going to take this anymore!"Jan 07 15:51
scientesfound it XRevan86 https://youtu.be/KQNVZSYI_yk?t=671Jan 07 15:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-War And Peace 1956 - YouTubeJan 07 15:52
scienteshe can hardly stand up before the bottleJan 07 15:54
XRevan86scientes: https://youtu.be/V-SAh4jdssA?t=927 I know the sceneJan 07 15:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Война и мир (HD) фильм 1-1 (исторический, реж.Сергей Бондарчук, 1967 г.) - YouTubeJan 07 15:55
scienteswoah, bearJan 07 15:56
scientesI like the hollywood version better alreadyJan 07 15:57
scientestoo much shaky cameraJan 07 15:58
scientesand doesn't have the skill of the hollywood method actorsJan 07 15:58
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/646099.jpgJan 07 15:59
XRevan86scientes: It looks like it's shot in the US in the 1950s… which is also exactly true.Jan 07 16:05
scienteslmao Jan 07 16:06
XRevan86scientes: It has that poshness that I can't help that noticeJan 07 16:06
XRevan86* I can't help but noticeJan 07 16:06
scientesthe only pi searcher i found only searches the first 2 million digitsJan 07 16:06
scientesi need a program so i can search fartherJan 07 16:06
XRevan86scientes: But yes, it does look like the camera is handled manually in the Bondarchuk's version. Albeit in that scene it's extra shaky, so I assume it's intentional.Jan 07 16:09
XRevan86scientes: At least both versions are on a par on having noticeable make-up :).Jan 07 16:10
scienteshmm the program i found sucks cause it has to allocate all the memoryJan 07 16:10
scientesthat is normalJan 07 16:11
scientestheatre was before, which has WAY more make-upJan 07 16:11
scientesdamn, this program sucksJan 07 16:11
XRevan86scientes: Theatre is a different realm though.Jan 07 16:11
scientescant even do 500,000 without dying at 13GB ramJan 07 16:12
scientesXRevan86, yeah but film didn't existJan 07 16:12
scientesso the early stuff really sucks as they didn't have method actingJan 07 16:12
scientesbut they figured it out in the 50s, and Henry Fonda, et all became famous because of itJan 07 16:12
scientesoh wow what a dumb algorithmJan 07 16:13
scientes100,000 uses 2GB, 250,000 uses 12 GBJan 07 16:13
scientessomething is wrongJan 07 16:13
scientesand it isn't the algorithmJan 07 16:13
scientesI wanted to make it almost impossible to call me by only publishing which digit of pi my phone number starts asJan 07 16:14
kaniinischestowitz its a hundreds of gb database, it just has to take timeJan 07 16:15
XRevan86scientes: Dunno, all I know is that somehow contemporary Russian actors are somehow even worse, so at least Soviet acting look good in comparison.Jan 07 16:16
XRevan86I have low standards.Jan 07 16:16
scienteswell the earlier hollywood stuff was horribleJan 07 16:16
scientesthese were the firsts and they were greatJan 07 16:17
XRevan86This is more of a "lasts" caseJan 07 16:17
schestowitzkaniini: wow, that is massssive Jan 07 16:17
MinceRthat's what she said.Jan 07 16:20
XRevan86imitating a snake?Jan 07 16:21
MinceRscientes: if you have or can get a text file with the digits of pi, it might be easier and faster to search in thatJan 07 16:21
scientesMinceR, i wanted to search the digits as i generated themJan 07 16:21
MinceRespecially since the first 2 million digits can fit in a text file around 2MB longJan 07 16:21
scientesso i can search over a billion digitsJan 07 16:21
XRevan86scientes: That's going to take foreverJan 07 16:21
MinceR:)Jan 07 16:21
scientes    Could not find module ‘Data.Number.CReal’Jan 07 16:23
scienteswhat package do i needJan 07 16:23
schestowitzMinceR: when she saw the precancerous lumpJan 07 16:23
MinceRlolJan 07 16:23
scientesPackage libghc-numbers-devJan 07 16:24
schestowitzpackage cancerdJan 07 16:24
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/645874.jpgJan 07 16:24
*XRevan86 also suspects that the forever will take a bit less in C than in HaskellJan 07 16:24
scientesXRevan86, yeah but look at this thing https://github.com/WhatTheFunctional/ChudnovskyPi/blob/master/Chudnovsky.hsJan 07 16:25
scientesits beautifulJan 07 16:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ChudnovskyPi/Chudnovsky.hs at master · WhatTheFunctional/ChudnovskyPi · GitHubJan 07 16:25
scienteswtfJan 07 16:25
XRevan86scientes: If you say so.Jan 07 16:26
scientesit doesn't really workJan 07 16:26
scientesits printing out every iterationJan 07 16:26
scientesand the same digits each timeJan 07 16:26
scientesnuttyJan 07 16:26
schestowitzMinceR: I didn't know they made furniture for cats... Jan 07 16:26
MinceR:>Jan 07 16:26
scientesChudnovsky algorithm is very fastJan 07 16:27
XRevan86Such a fringe use-case there's a Rosetta Code article on it: https://rosettacode.org/wiki/PiJan 07 16:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-rosettacode.org | Pi - Rosetta CodeJan 07 16:27
schestowitzcats did not know eitherJan 07 16:27
scientesand i dont want to use javaJan 07 16:27
MinceRthey didJan 07 16:27
schestowitzthey "are the babbby"Jan 07 16:27
MinceRthey know all furniture was made for cats :>Jan 07 16:27
*schestowitz dingo reference usedJan 07 16:27
schestowitz*ateJan 07 16:28
scienteshttps://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pi#C as you can see algorithm matters much more than languageJan 07 16:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-rosettacode.org | Pi - Rosetta CodeJan 07 16:28
XRevan86scientes: trueJan 07 16:28
scientesits Ramnujan babyJan 07 16:28
scientesthe Indian geniusJan 07 16:28
XRevan86scientes: I'm wondering if there's a way to calculate digits without storing all the previous onesJan 07 16:29
scientesXRevan86, yes, the last twwo algorithms do thatJan 07 16:29
scientesactually, all of them doJan 07 16:29
XRevan86scientes: Why GMP then?Jan 07 16:29
scientescause you need more memory as you advanceJan 07 16:29
XRevan86makes senseJan 07 16:30
scientesyou have to calculate more at a timeJan 07 16:30
scientesas the curve is getting lessJan 07 16:30
XRevan86> so the program repeatedly calculates Pi digits with increasing length and chop off leading digits already displayedJan 07 16:31
XRevan86ah, there's why GMPJan 07 16:31
XRevan86I guess I'm fantasising about something iterative.Jan 07 16:32
scienteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chudnovsky_algorithmJan 07 16:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Chudnovsky algorithm - WikipediaJan 07 16:32
scienteshttps://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/5def68172b231baf82f3003f88aa7a078b947b49Jan 07 16:32
XRevan86> For a high performance iterative implementationJan 07 16:33
scientesnlogn^3Jan 07 16:33
scientesit has been calculated to 31.4 trillion digitsJan 07 16:33
XRevan86scientes: How much memory does it need to calculate the nth digit?Jan 07 16:33
scientesdoesn't have space complexity there....Jan 07 16:33
XRevan86when an (n-1)th is knownJan 07 16:34
scientesXRevan86, it doesn't work like thatJan 07 16:34
scientesespecially as you are calculating in binary and then convertingJan 07 16:35
XRevan86scientes: I downloaded the implementation from the GMP site and oh boy…Jan 07 16:35
XRevan86I don't know what I expected.Jan 07 16:36
oiaohmXRevan86: You made me remember this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skf8NTEnrO4Jan 07 16:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The Irrationally Long Number Pi Song ("Sweet Number Pi") - YouTubeJan 07 16:36
scientesXRevan86, what flags did you use?Jan 07 16:37
XRevan86scientes: I just looked at the codeJan 07 16:37
XRevan86that removed the desire to actually run itJan 07 16:38
scientesit isn't that badJan 07 16:38
XRevan86scientes: And you'd need to augment it to do what you wantJan 07 16:38
scientesahh yesJan 07 16:38
scientesthat is the clincherJan 07 16:38
scientesahh geeze, they used all these internal symbols in that file tooJan 07 16:41
scientesoh nvmJan 07 16:41
scientesspifffy fast howeverJan 07 16:44
oiaohmI do wonder what google assistant would do if you set it up to recieve a computer generated version of Sweet Number PI never ending.Jan 07 16:44
XRevan86scientes: I can't quite figure out why main ends on "exit (0);" %)Jan 07 16:44
XRevan86Why would anyone put that there…Jan 07 16:44
scientesjust did 14000000 digitsJan 07 16:45
scientesspiffy fastJan 07 16:45
oiaohmXRevan86: how old is the c programJan 07 16:45
XRevan86Monotonic time, that's nice, except that it hardcodes 1000 instead of C89's CLOCKS_PER_SECJan 07 16:45
XRevan86oiaohm: Can't be older than GMP itselfJan 07 16:46
oiaohmSome old k&R c compliers you had to use exit(0) at end of main or stupid stuff use to happen.Jan 07 16:46
scientesoiaohm, makes senseJan 07 16:46
XRevan86oiaohm: Well, it's clearly C89Jan 07 16:47
scienteshit a SIGBUS invalid instructionJan 07 16:47
scientesbut of course it is ANSIJan 07 16:47
XRevan86oiaohm: "int main(int argc, char *argv[])"Jan 07 16:47
oiaohmXRevan86: you have to remember this could be something forwards ported.Jan 07 16:47
oiaohmYou find exit(0) at end of main in  c89 stuff when it turns out to be based on something older a lot.Jan 07 16:48
XRevan86oiaohm: I suppose. It's news to me that this could've ever been usefulJan 07 16:48
XRevan86How silly should a compiler writer be?Jan 07 16:49
oiaohmXRevan86: I would not call it exactly useful.Jan 07 16:49
oiaohmIts like some compliers today get upset when you don't have a return  value at end of main as well.Jan 07 16:49
XRevan86oiaohm: It's a requirement of C89.Jan 07 16:50
XRevan86Well, a UB in C89Jan 07 16:50
XRevan86if one doesn't have a return value in a function that should have oneJan 07 16:50
scientesXRevan86, main() gets some exceptionsJan 07 16:51
XRevan86scientes: Only because of common sense and later C99Jan 07 16:51
scientesdamn, this pi generator isn't a streamJan 07 16:52
oiaohmscientes: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7280877/why-and-how-does-gcc-compile-a-function-with-a-missing-return-statement  to be correct missing return value  is undefine behaviour by standard even on main.  In all versions of C.Jan 07 16:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stackoverflow.com | c - Why and how does GCC compile a function with a missing return statement? - Stack OverflowJan 07 16:52
XRevan86"In all versions of C." – no, not since C99Jan 07 16:53
scientesoiaohm, my god that is insaneJan 07 16:53
XRevan86gcc -std=c89 -Wreturn-type == a warningJan 07 16:54
scientesugggh, fucking javaJan 07 16:54
scientesi really do not want to use javaJan 07 16:54
oiaohmXRevan86: your right.  ISO/IEC 9899:1989 (C90):  and before its undefined.Jan 07 16:54
scientesthe world would be better had java never been createdJan 07 16:54
oiaohmexit(0) or return 0; on main before that makes absolute sense.Jan 07 16:55
oiaohmUnless you like something random happening.Jan 07 16:55
scientesoh wow, c89 and c90 are differntJan 07 16:56
scientesmadnessJan 07 16:56
XRevan86But if you, a compiler developer, think that in case of this UB it is actually reasonable to make the programme return random garbage, I loath you.Jan 07 16:56
scientesdamn, not in the first 10 million digitsJan 07 16:56
XRevan86scientes: Um, C89 and C90 are marginally different.Jan 07 16:56
XRevan86oiaohm: Oh, I thought you meant "exit(0);" onlyJan 07 16:56
XRevan86oiaohm: I totally would've added "return 0;" there.Jan 07 16:57
scientesimage thoughJan 07 16:57
scientesimagineJan 07 16:57
scientesif you say that they can find something after the Xth digit of piJan 07 16:57
XRevan86scientes: In practice, C89 == C90Jan 07 16:57
scientesyou can really frustrate that personJan 07 16:57
oiaohmXRevan86: some of you k&r compliers for embeded if you used return 0 on main it errored out.Jan 07 16:57
oiaohmXRevan86: so exit(0); was you dependable way of doing return 0 on main back then.Jan 07 16:58
XRevan86oiaohm: Did they assume "main" to mean "void main"?Jan 07 16:58
oiaohmXRevan86: some did some did not.Jan 07 16:58
oiaohmXRevan86: and some changed their mind based on build flags.Jan 07 16:58
oiaohmYes many a day you were wanting to kill complier developer lucky they were not in the same room.Jan 07 16:59
XRevan86oiaohm: Who writes this stuff? Even I in 2020 know what "implicit int" is.Jan 07 16:59
XRevan86Why should main be any different? I am sure it wasn't stated to be different anywhere.Jan 07 17:00
scientesugghJan 07 17:00
scientesa horrible decision XRevan86 Jan 07 17:00
XRevan86scientes: So, what did you mean when you said that C90 differs from C89?Jan 07 17:00
danielp3344Maybe we should give up and say the compiler is the documentation for a languageJan 07 17:01
oiaohmXRevan86: main was kind fishy you have to remember you had OS back then that the return value from main really had no where to go.Jan 07 17:01
scientesdanielp3344, the only reason compilers are so good is because that was rejectedJan 07 17:01
XRevan86scientes: What I read is that the ISO standard (C90) has some better wording/clarifications that the prior ANSI one (C89) hasn't.Jan 07 17:01
danielp3344scientes: are there any c compilers that are exactly alike?Jan 07 17:01
scientesdanielp3344, compilers are great specifically because the language is defined as an abstract machineJan 07 17:02
XRevan86scientes: But in practice that's retroactively applicable, so it's really the same thing.Jan 07 17:02
oiaohm1999 is C99 is only 26-27 years latter after the C language was first started that return value as 0 without doing return or anything was written into the standard.Jan 07 17:02
scienteswhich can be reasoned aboutJan 07 17:02
oiaohmc89/c90 has main as a intJan 07 17:02
scientesrestrict did NOTHING until straight aliasing came aboutJan 07 17:02
XRevan86oiaohm: main was always int and still isJan 07 17:02
scientes*strictJan 07 17:03
oiaohmXRevan86: k&r allowed main to be what the OS need that where void main and double main comes form.Jan 07 17:03
danielp3344<oiaohm "c89/c90 has main as a int"> you know that threw me for a long time when I started programmingJan 07 17:03
XRevan86oiaohm: Oh… freaky.Jan 07 17:03
danielp3344The first real programming I ever did was on avr chipsJan 07 17:04
danielp3344and main is voidJan 07 17:04
scientesoiaohm, _start is noreturnJan 07 17:04
*XRevan86 did some Batch "programming" before ever seeing C, so when I finally have, "int main" looked perfectly natural to me.Jan 07 17:04
danielp3344so when I started trying to write programs for my computer I couldn't figure that out for a while lolJan 07 17:04
XRevan86%ERRORLEVEL% %)Jan 07 17:04
danielp3344GCC's errors didn't help lolJan 07 17:05
scientesalso with _start you have to align the damn stackJan 07 17:05
oiaohmdanielp3344: lot of avr compliers were k&r for ages.Jan 07 17:05
scientesor Bad Things(tm) will happenJan 07 17:05
XRevan86Even while still being a stinkin' Windows user that isJan 07 17:05
danielp3344lol, gcc was what originally drew me to GNU+LinuxJan 07 17:05
oiaohmXRevan86: I guess why you see exit(0) on old code makes sense to you now that you know about odd ball main defines.Jan 07 17:06
danielp3344I used visual studio and it suckedJan 07 17:06
scientesI hate K&RJan 07 17:06
danielp3344gcc and make was so much betterJan 07 17:06
scientesit is so uglyJan 07 17:06
scientesit is evilJan 07 17:06
scienteseven glibc has itJan 07 17:06
oiaohmand the fact return a value is not defined.Jan 07 17:06
danielp3344scientes: K&R?Jan 07 17:06
oiaohmfor ages.Jan 07 17:06
scientesdanielp3344, it is called K&R, but the K&R book was updated for ANSI styleJan 07 17:07
scientesalso called prototypesJan 07 17:07
danielp3344ahJan 07 17:07
danielp3344lolJan 07 17:07
oiaohmdanielp3344: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language  K&R is used to define C compliers based off this book.Jan 07 17:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | The C Programming Language - WikipediaJan 07 17:07
oiaohmand that book is not that strict.Jan 07 17:07
oiaohmNormally first edition of that book from 1978 with no updates.Jan 07 17:08
XRevan86"I hate K&R" – that can be interpreted…Jan 07 17:10
XRevan86K&R don't deserve that.Jan 07 17:10
scientesXRevan86, hehJan 07 17:10
scientesthe book is actually greatJan 07 17:10
*XRevan86 read the C89 version.Jan 07 17:11
scientessameJan 07 17:11
oiaohmscientes: _start is not part of the c standard defines.  K&R defines main as the entry point.  hello hell that following that you would map main to _start.Jan 07 17:11
oiaohmK&R book is great for the basics of C.Jan 07 17:11
oiaohmWriting a C complier from the K&R book alone is path to absolutely hell.Jan 07 17:12
XRevan86oiaohm: Indeed.Jan 07 17:13
scientesoiaohm, well i'm talking about how things actually workJan 07 17:13
XRevan86Good thing that's all in the past.Jan 07 17:13
XRevan86As much as things can possibly be in the fast.Jan 07 17:14
oiaohmscientes: I at times get given 30+ years old code to fix.Jan 07 17:14
oiaohmIt did work back then.,Jan 07 17:15
scientes_start ?Jan 07 17:15
scientesoh, the codeJan 07 17:15
oiaohmSo you might be talking about how things actually work now.  I have to be able to read the old stuff and see how it worked back then.Jan 07 17:16
oiaohmThen work out what modern is.Jan 07 17:17
oiaohmmain coming _start even that is not standard is in fact required in some of the stuff.Jan 07 17:17
oiaohmXRevan86: the horrible stuff is all in the past as long as you don't get asked to fix up a really old code base.Jan 07 17:18
XRevan86oiaohm: Old code can haunt for an infinite length of timeJan 07 17:20
XRevan86But so can bad invalid code. Mentally those don't diverge far for me.Jan 07 17:21
XRevan86from each otherJan 07 17:21
oiaohmLot of this that I deal with was perfectly valid code back then but invalid now.Jan 07 17:23
scientesoiaohm, how?Jan 07 17:23
scienteskak?Jan 07 17:24
XRevan86oiaohm: Surprisingly little difference in the nowJan 07 17:24
oiaohmIts the things like the different main defines.   ; at end of functions and other little things like that.Jan 07 17:25
oiaohmint main()  { };  << that ; was required in some old k&r compliers.Jan 07 17:26
oiaohmModern compliers don't like that.Jan 07 17:26
scientesoh godJan 07 17:26
scientesthat is horribleJan 07 17:26
XRevan86oiaohm: I'm pretty sure that was not in the book.Jan 07 17:27
oiaohmXRevan86: it was in there how one paragraph could be read.Jan 07 17:27
oiaohmXRevan86: of course it could be read the other way as well.Jan 07 17:27
XRevan86oiaohm: And examples!?Jan 07 17:27
XRevan86The book has darn examples.Jan 07 17:27
oiaohmFirst verson of the book one example is typoed that way as well.Jan 07 17:28
oiaohmSorry 2 examples are typoed that wya.Jan 07 17:28
oiaohmwya/way.Jan 07 17:28
oiaohmAs I said first edition of that book using as a base to build you complier really bad.Jan 07 17:29
XRevan86oiaohm: But you do realise that compiler will fail to build the Hello, World from the book?Jan 07 17:29
XRevan86#include <stdio.h>Jan 07 17:30
XRevan86main()Jan 07 17:30
XRevan86{Jan 07 17:30
XRevan86  printf("hello, world\n");Jan 07 17:30
XRevan86}Jan 07 17:30
XRevan86Which looks exactly like that.Jan 07 17:30
oiaohmXRevan86: that revised edition.  Jan 07 17:30
oiaohmXRevan86: the non revised first edition there is the ; at the end of that.Jan 07 17:31
XRevan86> Published by Prentice-Hall in 1988Jan 07 17:31
XRevan86Darn, it is.Jan 07 17:31
danielp3344https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Hello,_World!%22_program#/media/File:Hello_World_Brian_Kernighan_1978.jpgJan 07 17:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | "Hello, World!" program - WikipediaJan 07 17:31
scientesdanielp3344, notice they claim it is not copyrightableJan 07 17:32
XRevan86https://archive.org/details/TheCProgrammingLanguageFirstEdition/page/n13 thereJan 07 17:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-archive.org | The C Programming Language First Edition : Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet ArchiveJan 07 17:32
scienteshowever linux builds a whole binary for "true" and "false" instead of using a much shorter scriptJan 07 17:32
scientesand then claims superiorityJan 07 17:32
XRevan86main()Jan 07 17:33
XRevan86{Jan 07 17:33
XRevan86printf("hello, world\n");Jan 07 17:33
XRevan86}Jan 07 17:33
scientesbut its also to avoid being calling copiers of UNIXJan 07 17:33
oiaohmXRevan86:  Normally first edition of that book from 1978 with no updates. << the no updates are there for a reason.Jan 07 17:33
danielp3344XRevan86: my eyes!Jan 07 17:33
oiaohmXRevan86: the first printing has printing errors.Jan 07 17:33
XRevan86oiaohm: But this is 1978Jan 07 17:33
XRevan86were there updates the same year?Jan 07 17:33
scientes /bin/true --helpJan 07 17:34
oiaohmXRevan86: there are 3 print runs in the first year.Jan 07 17:34
scientesits even translated!Jan 07 17:34
oiaohmXRevan86: each correcting screw up.Jan 07 17:34
scientes /bin/true --versionJan 07 17:34
scientes!!!!!!!!!!!Jan 07 17:34
XRevan86scientes: What's your point? even dash has an in-built version of trueJan 07 17:34
oiaohmXRevan86: so there are 3 different versions of the 1978 first edition.Jan 07 17:35
scientesXRevan86, that this binary is translatedJan 07 17:35
XRevan86scientes: It's GNU coreutils.Jan 07 17:35
scienteswhen all it has to do is exit successfullyJan 07 17:35
danielp3344scientes: /usr/bin/true over in systemD land :PJan 07 17:35
XRevan86It has standards, even for this.Jan 07 17:35
scientesshell is so messed up that [ is a COMMANDJan 07 17:35
oiaohmXRevan86: the printing after 1978 are all nice and uniform and sorted out.Jan 07 17:35
scientesand not part of the languageJan 07 17:35
oiaohmXRevan86: yes there is another printing in 1979Jan 07 17:36
scientesyou have to fork to use [Jan 07 17:36
XRevan86scientes: Which is also actually in-builtJan 07 17:36
scientesnot grep howeverJan 07 17:37
XRevan86I wonder what's older: [ or test (as a name)Jan 07 17:37
scientesshell is  such a weird languageJan 07 17:37
XRevan86scientes: It's a shell.Jan 07 17:37
scientesit kinda can be described that it predated MMU so it wasn't such a big deal to spawn processesJan 07 17:37
scientesit was basicallly just a function call thenJan 07 17:38
XRevan86scientes: And you know, all replacements are either not big enough to be worth switching from shell or big enough that they're literally bloat.Jan 07 17:38
scientestry lua with lua-re2Jan 07 17:38
scientesbut yeah, you have a pointJan 07 17:39
scientesand systemd has this massive libsystemd monstrosityJan 07 17:39
XRevan86scientes: And I am not going to use a language where launching programmes is harder than just typing their name.Jan 07 17:39
scientesi usually use ruby for thatJan 07 17:39
scientesand its just `program`Jan 07 17:40
scienteswell, that calls the shell....Jan 07 17:40
scientesbut this is for laziness purposesJan 07 17:40
scientesthe design of shell is actually quite goodJan 07 17:40
oiaohmXRevan86: that one on archive.org is a different printing again all the other 1978 k&R I have.   All the ones don't have New Zealand stuff.Jan 07 17:40
scientesthe problem is that it wasn't designed for MMUsJan 07 17:40
XRevan86scientes: Freaky, that doesn't look very Ruby-ish %)Jan 07 17:41
oiaohmXRevan86: so that makes 4 different printings in one year so far.Jan 07 17:41
XRevan86scientes: More Perl-ish (which it totally is)Jan 07 17:41
scientesXRevan86, well it has been deprecated, i forget what you are suppose to useJan 07 17:41
XRevan86scientes: They suddenly remembered they're not Perl? :)Jan 07 17:41
XRevan86scientes: Anyway, shell is also great for pipesJan 07 17:42
scientesyes it isJan 07 17:42
XRevan86stdout/stderr/stdin redirectionJan 07 17:42
scientesits quite a good design actuallyJan 07 17:42
scientesthe problem comes in sed not being full featured, et ceteraJan 07 17:42
scientesand the MMU stupidityJan 07 17:43
XRevan86It's also a design that doesn't blend well with something like Ruby :)Jan 07 17:43
scientesnah its fineJan 07 17:43
scientesi write ruby/shell frankensteinsJan 07 17:43
XRevan86scientes: I mean, you won't find a full-featured programming language that has this stuff short-handed.Jan 07 17:43
scientesyou can work with pipes quite well in rubyJan 07 17:44
XRevan86scientes: We discussed sed…Jan 07 17:44
scienteswell yeah ruby regexps are much more modernJan 07 17:44
XRevan86scientes: Of course, and in Python, but it just isn't as easy as just echo foo | bar >foobarJan 07 17:44
scientesand ruby-re2 is close at hand if you want the small performance boostJan 07 17:44
scientespython had hideous unicode supportJan 07 17:45
scientes*hasJan 07 17:45
XRevan86scientes: Seems fine to me.Jan 07 17:45
scientesstrings in python is like pulling teethJan 07 17:45
XRevan86scientes: What I said about sed and say now is that you can use perl just for regexes and it will not even be longer than with sed.Jan 07 17:46
XRevan86because in perl even a raw regex is a valid programmeJan 07 17:46
XRevan86Which is absolutely disgusting, but also convinient in this particular way.Jan 07 17:46
scientesXRevan86, yeah, but i actually never learned sed's grammer because it isn't full featuredJan 07 17:46
scientesso i use ruby insteadJan 07 17:46
scientesand i avoid perl regexp cause they are not regularJan 07 17:47
XRevan86scientes: What would you say that?Jan 07 17:47
scienteswell, ruby also supports backtracking....Jan 07 17:47
XRevan86An example, pleaseJan 07 17:48
scientes Jan 07 17:48
scientes /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/Jan 07 17:49
scientes^^ figure out what that doesJan 07 17:49
XRevan86What to never do: show a regex and ask what it doesJan 07 17:49
scientesno, this one is coolJan 07 17:49
scientestest it against some numbersJan 07 17:51
XRevan86Do I need Ruby for it?Jan 07 17:52
scientesperl or rubyJan 07 17:52
XRevan86ok, PCRE thenJan 07 17:52
scientesoh that is the shitty versionJan 07 17:56
scientesyou want this version ^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$Jan 07 17:57
scientesmuch betterJan 07 17:57
scientesthen you can test against decimal numbersJan 07 17:57
XRevan86Any symbol instead of 1's?Jan 07 17:57
scientesthe first version you have to do 1, 11, 111, 1111 et ceteraJan 07 17:57
XRevan86scientes: It matched 1, but not 11, etc.Jan 07 17:58
XRevan86and I don't really know what the | right side should do, because I never saw \1 beforeJan 07 17:58
scientesXRevan86, but it matched 1111Jan 07 17:58
scientesand 111111Jan 07 17:58
scientesand 111111111Jan 07 17:58
XRevan86duplicator of the brackets?Jan 07 17:58
scientesthey are equiliventJan 07 17:59
scientesthe first is easier to read the regexp syntaxJan 07 17:59
XRevan86oh, wait, \1 %)Jan 07 17:59
scientesaha!Jan 07 17:59
scientesthat is why you need perl or rubyJan 07 17:59
scientesit is not regularJan 07 17:59
scientesirb(main):029:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "9"Jan 07 18:00
XRevan86> and i avoid perl regexp cause they are not regularJan 07 18:00
scientes=> #<MatchData "9" 1:nil>Jan 07 18:00
scientesirb(main):030:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "1"Jan 07 18:00
scientes=> #<MatchData "1" 1:nil>Jan 07 18:00
scientesirb(main):031:0> /^.?$|^(..+?)\1+$/.match "101"Jan 07 18:00
scientes=> nilJan 07 18:00
XRevan86scientes: That doesn't explain thisJan 07 18:00
scientesyou asked for an exampleJan 07 18:00
scientesand this is a counter-exampleJan 07 18:00
scientesof what NOT to doJan 07 18:01
XRevan86scientes: Of why ruby's regex is better than perl'sJan 07 18:01
scientesof why to avoid backtrackingJan 07 18:01
XRevan86then you gave something that works in eitherJan 07 18:01
scienteswell you can use ruby-re2Jan 07 18:01
scientesthat is regularJan 07 18:01
*XRevan86 absolutely never heard about RE2Jan 07 18:02
scienteshave you figured out what it does yet?Jan 07 18:02
XRevan86scientes: It matches something when it's featured twiceJan 07 18:03
scientesXRevan86, it also matchs 9Jan 07 18:03
XRevan86scientes: That a special case, left sideJan 07 18:03
scientesi'm talking about the second versionJan 07 18:04
scientesthey are identicalJan 07 18:04
scientesand 9 is not a special caseJan 07 18:04
XRevan86scientes: .? isJan 07 18:04
scientesit also matches 21Jan 07 18:04
scientesok, then 111111111Jan 07 18:04
scientes(9(Jan 07 18:04
scientes(9)Jan 07 18:04
XRevan86.? or (..+?)\1+Jan 07 18:05
XRevan86really not sure why would you use +? hereJan 07 18:05
scientes<XRevan86> scientes: It matches something when it's featured twiceJan 07 18:05
scientesnot quite but you are getting closerJan 07 18:05
XRevan86scientes: twice or more, but because it's not hungry, twiceJan 07 18:06
XRevan86oh wait, it's until the endJan 07 18:07
XRevan86if one, then one, if not, then if it's two identical halvesJan 07 18:07
XRevan86and it works in sed :)Jan 07 18:08
XRevan86But only with +? replaced with just +Jan 07 18:09
XRevan86scientes: Did you add that just to screw with sed?Jan 07 18:09
scientesnoJan 07 18:09
XRevan86I really don't see the point of +? here. "$" automatically makes it hungry.Jan 07 18:10
XRevan86There is absolutely no way for it not to be hungry when it has to go to the end to make a match.Jan 07 18:10
scientesdo you want a hint?Jan 07 18:10
scientesyou should be able to figure this outJan 07 18:11
XRevan86crapJan 07 18:11
XRevan86oh crapJan 07 18:11
XRevan86it only applies to \1Jan 07 18:11
scientestesting it really is the fastest way to understand itJan 07 18:11
scientesor at least get closeJan 07 18:11
scientesit only deals with nubmersJan 07 18:12
XRevan86scientes: It's really not that complicated, I'm just not fresh right now.Jan 07 18:12
scientesok, here is a hint https://imgur.com/a/MFlQqiYJan 07 18:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Imgur: The magic of the InternetJan 07 18:13
scientesyeah you probably just are not familiarJan 07 18:14
scientescause that hint should give it awayJan 07 18:14
scientesi think the problem also is that the matching/not matching is reversedJan 07 18:16
scientesthe matches are actually the rejectsJan 07 18:16
scientesthis one is not reversed ^.?$|^(..+?)\1+?$Jan 07 18:18
scientesanyways, its a prime number sieveJan 07 18:18
scientesthe sieve of erostatesJan 07 18:18
XRevan86scientes: I see.Jan 07 18:30
scientesI miss when I suffered moreJan 07 18:51
scienteslife was less boring thenJan 07 18:52
scientesmy suffering gave my life meaningJan 07 18:52
XRevan86scientes: matlock showed you the way, you just didn't listenJan 07 18:52
XRevan86scientes: Use Windows 10, give your life meaning once again.Jan 07 18:52
scientesSolnietzen quoted Pushin, who wrote (translated) "I want to live to think and suffer."Jan 07 18:53
XRevan86https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusheen Pusheen?Jan 07 18:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Pusheen - WikipediaJan 07 18:54
scientesPushkinJan 07 18:54
XRevan86"Я жить хочу, чтоб мыслить и страдать"Jan 07 18:54
psydroidwhat I think is so weird is that Canonical people should be encouraging people to use Ubuntu, but instead of that they are encouraging people to use and develop on Windows 10Jan 07 18:54
scientesis that a direct quote?Jan 07 18:54
XRevan86scientes: yeaJan 07 18:54
psydroidI am also getting e-mail from Red Hat Developer Networks about .NET stuffJan 07 18:55
psydroidif I would be interested in that, I would be running WindowsJan 07 18:55
XRevan86psydroid: I know some people who are interested in C# on GNU/Linux. They don't spill what they are smoking.Jan 07 18:56
XRevan86scientes: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Elegy_1830_(Pushkin) the sauceJan 07 18:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikisource.org | Elegy 1830 (Pushkin) - Wikisource, the free online libraryJan 07 18:57
scientes> The waving sea of the futureJan 07 18:58
scientesPromises me only toil and sorrow.Jan 07 18:58
XRevan86The translation doesn't rhyme, appears to be literal.Jan 07 18:58
scientesbut what if the very reason for the suffering is that the future is so god-damn easy, and thus boringJan 07 18:58
XRevan86no, not literal, but closeJan 07 18:58
scienteseulogy of who?Jan 07 18:59
scienteshimself?Jan 07 18:59
XRevan86scientes: yesJan 07 18:59
scientesthats pretty depressiveJan 07 18:59
scienteswriting your own eulogyJan 07 18:59
scienteshe should get the emo awardJan 07 18:59
XRevan86scientes: He was also just 31 at the time of writingJan 07 19:00
scientesdamn emoJan 07 19:00
scienteshell, i'm 30 right nowJan 07 19:00
XRevan86and 7 years before his deathJan 07 19:00
scientesand I actually already went through a mid-life crisisJan 07 19:00
scienteswhen i was 17Jan 07 19:00
scientesso i guess its time to write my own eulogyJan 07 19:01
XRevan86Which was the most XIX european death possibleJan 07 19:01
XRevan86scientes: He's a poet, so…Jan 07 19:03
XRevan86being kind of an emo is in the job description %)Jan 07 19:03
scientesbut not Robert FrostJan 07 19:03
scienteshe was so cheerfulJan 07 19:03
scientesbut yeah, Shakespeare, certainlyJan 07 19:04
scientesbut that is more the gay thingJan 07 19:04
scientesChaucer tooJan 07 19:04
scienteswhat about Faust?Jan 07 19:05
scientesoh yeah, that is all about angstJan 07 19:05
scientesyeah, I see your pointJan 07 19:05
*XRevan86 is trying to find something of Pushkin in French.Jan 07 19:05
scientesthis is what that Plato cartoon was all aboutJan 07 19:05
scienteshttp://shakespeare.mit.edu/romeo_juliet/full.htmlJan 07 19:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-shakespeare.mit.edu | Romeo and Juliet: Entire PlayJan 07 19:10
scientes[To JULIET] If I profane with my unworthiest handJan 07 19:10
scientesFor saints have hands that pilgrims' hands do touch,Jan 07 19:11
scientesAnd palm to palm is holy palmers' kiss.Jan 07 19:11
scientes    My only love sprung from my only hate!Jan 07 19:11
scientes    Too early seen unknown, and known too late!Jan 07 19:11
scientes    Prodigious birth of love it is to me,Jan 07 19:11
scientes    That I must love a loathed enemy.Jan 07 19:11
XRevan86scientes: Should that rhyme?Jan 07 19:12
scientesthe first is iambic pentameterJan 07 19:12
scientes    Good pilgrim, you do wrong your hand too much,Jan 07 19:12
scientes    Which mannerly devotion shows in this;Jan 07 19:12
scientes    For saints have hands that pilgrims' hands do touch,Jan 07 19:12
scientes    And palm to palm is holy palmers' kiss.Jan 07 19:12
scientesABABJan 07 19:12
scientesand it rhymes between the characters tooJan 07 19:13
XRevan86"me" and "enemy" don't seem like a good rhyme.Jan 07 19:13
scienteswell, its the same soundJan 07 19:14
XRevan86but not the same stressJan 07 19:14
scientesbut it could be a pun on enmityJan 07 19:15
scienteswhich is the right stressJan 07 19:15
scientesor making im just making stuff upJan 07 19:15
XRevan86But not "mi"Jan 07 19:15
XRevan86but "ti"Jan 07 19:15
scientesbut enemy [with enmity]Jan 07 19:16
XRevan86and it's not the right stress eitherJan 07 19:16
scienteswhich is the "only hate" partJan 07 19:16
scientesahh, you can stress it right noweverJan 07 19:17
XRevan86enmitý?Jan 07 19:17
scientesi don't see the stress problemJan 07 19:18
scientes    O fortune, fortune! all men call thee fickle:Jan 07 19:18
scientes    If thou art fickle, what dost thou with him.Jan 07 19:18
scientesThat is renown'd for faith? Be fickle, fortune;Jan 07 19:19
scientesFor then, I hope, thou wilt not keep him long,Jan 07 19:19
scientesBut send him back.Jan 07 19:19
XRevan86He's Arnold, Arnold, Arnold RimmerJan 07 19:20
XRevan86Without him life would be much grimmerJan 07 19:20
XRevan86He's handsome, trim and no-one slimmerJan 07 19:20
XRevan86He will never need a ZimmerJan 07 19:20
scientesewJan 07 19:21
scientesyeah, so emoJan 07 19:21
scientesoh yeah, Red Dwarf was greatJan 07 19:21
scientesdid you actually read that?Jan 07 19:22
XRevan86scientes: I saw Red DwarfJan 07 19:22
scientesA canner, exceedingly canny,Jan 07 19:23
scientesOne morning remarked to his granny.Jan 07 19:23
scientesA canner can can,Jan 07 19:23
scientesAnything that he can,Jan 07 19:23
scientesBut a canner can't can a can, can he?.Jan 07 19:23
scientesThere once was a man named Brice,Jan 07 19:25
scientesWho had a nasty head full lice.Jan 07 19:25
scientesHe said, If I eat them,Jan 07 19:25
scientesThen I'll have beat them!Jan 07 19:25
scientesAnd besides they taste very niceJan 07 19:25
scientesthe problem with these limmericks is that limmericks are suppose to be dirtyJan 07 19:25
XRevan86scientes: An expectation subvertive endingJan 07 19:26
scientesThere was a young sailor from Brighton, Who remarked to his girl, You've a tight one, She replied, "Oh my soul, You're in the wrong hole, There's plenty of room in the right one!"Jan 07 19:27
scientesthere we go!Jan 07 19:27
XRevan86scientes: Here also, Brighton and one don't really rhyme.Jan 07 19:28
scientesthats a semi-rhymeJan 07 19:28
scientesthey have rhyming dictionaries that list those tooJan 07 19:28
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975.jpgJan 07 19:29
XRevan86scientes: English is a language with clear vowel reduction and stress, I don't see it work.Jan 07 19:30
XRevan86Maybe it did before.Jan 07 19:30
scientesim use to itJan 07 19:30
XRevan86scientes: Braitn, wanJan 07 19:31
scientesand I've read enough rhymes like this I don't wince at allJan 07 19:31
XRevan86scientes: And you said something about method acting %)Jan 07 19:31
XRevan86Soviet actors don't act well. Meanwhile: "me" and "enemy" rhyme, why not.Jan 07 19:33
scientesmy favorite really is hamletJan 07 19:35
scientesbut i'm not going to paste that hereJan 07 19:35
XRevan86let's rhyme Hamlet and CorvetteJan 07 19:36
scienteswhats wrong with that :/Jan 07 19:36
XRevan86:D I'm doneJan 07 19:37
XRevan86scientes: Hamlet is like omelette, Corvette is like banquetteJan 07 19:39
XRevan86scientes: The syllable on which the stress is on.Jan 07 19:40
scientesyeah, those made me winceJan 07 19:40
scientesI think sometimes the stress is flexibleJan 07 19:41
scientesidunnoJan 07 19:41
scientesOnce I visited France,Jan 07 19:41
scientesAnd learned a new, awesome dance.Jan 07 19:41
scientesI twirled,Jan 07 19:41
scientesAnd I swirled,Jan 07 19:41
scientesAnd then I lost my pants.Jan 07 19:41
scientesFrance/pantsJan 07 19:41
scientes*wince*Jan 07 19:41
XRevan86scientes: Here the issue is not stressJan 07 19:42
scientesDid you hear about the baguette at the zoo? It was bread in captivity.Jan 07 19:43
XRevan86scientes: 1. the way the word "France" is pronounced can vary a lot; 2. "ns" and "nts" is also a questionable rhyme.Jan 07 19:43
danielp3344<MinceR "https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975."> that's genius!Jan 07 19:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://hugelolcdn.com/i/645975 )Jan 07 19:44
XRevan86https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/En-us-France.oggJan 07 19:44
XRevan86but then, it seems a lot of people do say "frents"Jan 07 19:44
XRevan86* "frænts"Jan 07 19:44
XRevan86scientes: I can write that off as an accent-specific rhyme.Jan 07 19:45
XRevan86Doesn't rhyme when I say it, but heyJan 07 19:45
scientesHow many apples grow on a tree? All of them.Jan 07 19:50
XRevan86scientes: What's the point in having articles when this stuff still happens? %)Jan 07 19:51
scientesthat's why i posted itJan 07 19:54
scientesthe grammer is interestingJan 07 19:54
XRevan86Well, okay, it doesn't make perfect sense article-wiseJan 07 19:55
XRevan86* it does makeJan 07 19:55
scientesyes it doesJan 07 19:55
XRevan86I hate it when I screw up with "not", it's the worst kind of screw-up when meaning is reversed.Jan 07 19:56
scientesall apples grew on a treeJan 07 19:56
scientesthe article is fineJan 07 19:56
XRevan86scientes: Should've said "on the tree", yes.Jan 07 19:56
scientesno, a tree is fine here tooJan 07 19:56
XRevan86scientes: I mean, to make a different meaning.Jan 07 19:57
scientesno, all apples grew on the treeJan 07 19:57
XRevan86scientes: No, they did not.Jan 07 19:57
scientesbut usually that would be for ripen that you would use "the"Jan 07 19:57
XRevan86there's just one The Tree, although it should be a specific tree…Jan 07 19:57
scientesbecause there the distinction mattersJan 07 19:57
scientesnot trueJan 07 19:57
XRevan86and the idea is apples per treeJan 07 19:57
scienteswe say "Almonds only ripen on the tree."Jan 07 19:58
XRevan86scientes: Hm, right.Jan 07 19:58
scientesthe difference between a and the here is that with a it is clear that no apple comes from *two* trees at the same timeJan 07 19:58
scientes(besides the whole tree sex thing)Jan 07 19:59
scientesalthough apples have both sexesJan 07 19:59
scientesunlike say, kiwisJan 07 20:00
scientesangiosperms are actually insanely complicatedJan 07 20:04
scienteslike some plants have both sexes, but still refuse to mate with the same plant (I am not sure if we understand how this is enforced)Jan 07 20:04
XRevan86scientes: a checksum maybe :)Jan 07 20:04
-->craigt (~Icedove@fsf/staff/craigt) has joined #techrightsJan 07 20:16
<--libertybox_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 07 20:40
-->libertybox_ (~schestowi@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrightsJan 07 20:40
-->rianne__ (~liberty@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrightsJan 07 20:47
<--rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Jan 07 20:50
XRevan86scientes: In film when there's a graduation, US citizens always wear black clothes and rectangular hats? It almost feels natural, except… what the heck? And isn't that expensive to get clothes to wear just once?Jan 07 21:21
MinceRmaybe they rent themJan 07 21:38
MinceRstill extremely impracticalJan 07 21:38
MinceRand way too formalJan 07 21:38
XRevan86Well, at least it's not as clownish as British judge costumes.Jan 07 21:39
XRevan86(the wigs)Jan 07 21:39
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/645837.jpgJan 07 21:39
MinceRyeah, that's hard to beatJan 07 21:39
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/645847.jpgJan 07 21:49
XRevan86MinceR: Merry ChristmasJan 07 21:50
MinceRscary solstice, XRevan86 Jan 07 21:51
XRevan86MinceR: Why is it scayr?Jan 07 21:53
XRevan86scaryJan 07 21:53
XRevan86You're also off by half a month.Jan 07 21:54
MinceRno uJan 07 22:05
MinceRit's scary because it's a long dark night when the stars are right :>Jan 07 22:06
XRevan86MinceR: Where I am the night starts somewhere at 15:30Jan 07 22:08
XRevan86What's so special about the solstice one?Jan 07 22:08
XRevan86It's bloody winter.Jan 07 22:09
oiaohmXRevan86: I know UK and Australian universities  the black robes and square hats( I know they are square here could look rectangular on camera) are university owned items that you get to borrow for the day. Jan 07 22:17
oiaohmIts about 3 days in fact.Jan 07 22:17
XRevan86In my defence, squares are rectangular.Jan 07 22:17
oiaohmOn camera uk and Australian ones are turely square and I know they don't look that way.Jan 07 22:18
oiaohmturely/truelyJan 07 22:19
oiaohmI would think the USA ones are based on the UK university traditions.Jan 07 22:20
oiaohmXRevan86: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_academic_cap  the mortarboard Jan 07 22:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Square academic cap - WikipediaJan 07 22:21
oiaohmXRevan86: the thing you see in movies with them throwing the mortarboard hat into the air is forbid at most universities these days as well due to how many have been harmed by it coming down.Jan 07 22:23
cubexyzthe original mortarboard was just a flat piece of wood yes?Jan 07 22:27
cubexyzit was a stonemason's thingJan 07 22:27
oiaohmstonemasons to carry mortar << You do see some bricklayers still use a mortarboard.Jan 07 22:30
oiaohmcubexyz: https://www.speedcrete.co.uk/fibreglass-mortar-board.html  you can still buy them.   flat piece of wood is kind of original.   But they could have been flat bit of slate as well.Jan 07 22:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.speedcrete.co.uk | Fibreglass Mortar BoardJan 07 22:32
oiaohmcubexyz: the hat is a lot smaller.   30 inchs/ ~77cm square for the bricklayers mortarboard. The hat is only 9.25 inchs/24cm square.Jan 07 22:37
<--pav5088 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 07 22:45
-->pav5088 (~pav5088@175.39.118.119) has joined #techrightsJan 07 22:46
Hail_SpacecakeXRevan86: the material of the gowns and hats is pretty cheapJan 07 23:17
Hail_Spacecakeit's super thin, you wear it over normal clothesJan 07 23:18
Hail_Spacecakemaybe originally it really was an expensive formal gown or something but when I've stood in graduation ceremonies it was super-cheap stuffJan 07 23:18
<--craigt has quit (Quit: craigt)Jan 07 23:29
oiaohmHail_Spacecake: the historic ones were not super thick material either.Jan 07 23:42
XRevan86Boy so much informationJan 07 23:44
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_dress  wikipedia has a fairly good write up on it.Jan 07 23:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Academic dress - WikipediaJan 07 23:47
oiaohmReality at university there have always been student who can barely afford the course. Jan 07 23:47
oiaohmRented Academic dress are just a little above in quality the cheapest you can buy.     That is the way its always been.Jan 07 23:48
oiaohmYou can really tell the rich if you look closely because they have the high quality insanely expensive version.Jan 07 23:49
oiaohmPart of the reaon acedemic dress was designed in the first place to go over you standard clothes is to allow it to be made insanely thin and cheap.Jan 07 23:50
<--schestowitz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 07 23:50
-->schestowitz (~roy@host81-152-238-96.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrightsJan 07 23:50
<--schestowitz has quit (Changing host)Jan 07 23:50
-->schestowitz (~roy@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrightsJan 07 23:50
XRevan86Why did that tradition even start?Jan 07 23:52

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!