IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Saturday, November 07, 2020

schestowitz	nope	Nov 07 00:01
schestowitz	Chile has news	Nov 07 00:01
schestowitz	it liberated itself from this horrible thing the US did to it	Nov 07 00:01
schestowitz	it's in the news this month	Nov 07 00:01
CrystalMath	well still i was talking historically	Nov 07 00:01
CrystalMath	i'm aware that things went haywire for them later on	Nov 07 00:01
CrystalMath	Milton Freedman was not involved with that	Nov 07 00:02
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CrystalMath	schestowitz: okay thanks for answering anyway	Nov 07 00:09
schestowitz	I'm no expert	Nov 07 00:13
schestowitz	but I think many political choices are inspired by him, and few good things can be said	Nov 07 00:13
schestowitz	it's what made the US (other countries too, to a lesser degree) so unequal, like the top 1% having more wealth than like the bottom 95% combined	Nov 07 00:14
schestowitz	they just did anything they wanted	Nov 07 00:14
schestowitz	and the invisible hand was an excuse for this concentration of power (and wealth)	Nov 07 00:14
schestowitz	wealth begets power and vice versa	Nov 07 00:14
schestowitz	so there needs to be some power against consolidation	Nov 07 00:14
schestowitz	like antitrust/Sherman Act	Nov 07 00:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144096 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6ac9184c-df6d-4830-b5b8-c44b64e42ae1]		Nov 07 00:15
schestowitz	Even if it was not an DELIBERATE goal of this system and philosophy	Nov 07 00:15
schestowitz	and even if capitalism without regulation is the "best" system	Nov 07 00:15
schestowitz	the reality is, the way things work, unregulated capitalism leads to feudalism	Nov 07 00:16
schestowitz	even if not the intended goal, that's just what happens in practice	Nov 07 00:16
schestowitz	so realists sought to have some kinds of gov. regulations that gives more power to people's voice against those in power, either elected or unelected (who buy the elected)	Nov 07 00:17
DaemonFC[m]	Google was one of the companies that have everyone the day off to vote.	Nov 07 00:49
schestowitz	we know why	Nov 07 00:52
schestowitz	Barr/Trump	Nov 07 00:52
schestowitz	buh-bye	Nov 07 00:52
*DaElf has quit (Quit: Returning to meatspace.)		Nov 07 00:53
CrystalMath	how do the americans on this channel feel about conceding the white house to big tech?	Nov 07 01:03
schestowitz	hehe	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	"big tech"	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	trump versus "big tech"	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	like Palantir	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	and Microsoft	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	his biggest allies	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	"big head", "big tech"	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	Big wall	Nov 07 01:06
schestowitz	the biggest wall ever	Nov 07 01:06
oarion7	yeah big tech are basically state contractors at this point (alternatively viewed, the state is a contractor for big tech)	Nov 07 01:07
oarion7	so to answer that i guess every election is a concession of the white house to big tech	Nov 07 01:09
oarion7	2008, 2016, 2020. It sucks!	Nov 07 01:09
schestowitz	yep	Nov 07 01:14
schestowitz	well put	Nov 07 01:14
schestowitz	they're an extension or arm	Nov 07 01:14
schestowitz	like lockeheed (lockmart)	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	they make a "product"	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	like planes	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	but they don't need to actual "Sell" it per se	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	the government will blindly buy it	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	and compel US "allies" to buy some too	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	*actually "Sell"	Nov 07 01:15
schestowitz	so it's really just passage of taxpayers' money to barons	Nov 07 01:16
schestowitz	nobody buys it	Nov 07 01:16
schestowitz	the only thing which gets bought is the politicians	Nov 07 01:16
schestowitz	to keep these contracts going	Nov 07 01:16
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/parties.jpg	Nov 07 01:16
schestowitz	for our next article	Nov 07 01:16
DaemonFC[m]	Apple too.	Nov 07 01:36
DaemonFC[m]	Hundreds.	Nov 07 01:36
CrystalMath	okay i have to admit you're right	Nov 07 01:38
CrystalMath	and the proof is... Trump did nothing against big tech	Nov 07 01:39
schestowitz	CrystalMath: watch this short video http://techrights.org/2020/08/28/racism-is-money-for-microsoft/	Nov 07 01:53
schestowitz	nadella and trump	Nov 07 01:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| The ‘Genius’ Microsoft Says It’s Against Racism So It Therefore Must be True \| Techrights		Nov 07 01:53
kingoffrance	CrystalMath, i think when you look at all the "big tech" getting into banking that "big tech" is just a way to draw attention away from finance	Nov 07 02:15
kingoffrance	its not that i disagree so much as	Nov 07 02:15
schestowitz	and oil	Nov 07 02:15
kingoffrance	usual "luddite" has a cell phone and its more an "identity" thing i think that genuine against "tech"	Nov 07 02:15
kingoffrance	i dont think most ppl are serious	Nov 07 02:15
CrystalMath	i have a cell phone but not a smartphone	Nov 07 02:16
CrystalMath	i don't own a single smart phone	Nov 07 02:16
CrystalMath	i'm a luddite who is holier than thou	Nov 07 02:16
CrystalMath	:P	Nov 07 02:16
kingoffrance	lol no i mean they are trying to appeal to rural ppl and against city ppl	Nov 07 02:16
kingoffrance	i am the same on all that btw	Nov 07 02:16
CrystalMath	oh	Nov 07 02:16
CrystalMath	then thou art as holy as myself	Nov 07 02:16
kingoffrance	lol	Nov 07 02:17
kingoffrance	i think its moer "someone to blame" is what i mean	Nov 07 02:18
kingoffrance	i say this also because when i went to school it was all ms stuff	Nov 07 02:19
kingoffrance	they were silent then	Nov 07 02:19
kingoffrance	momentum is why would anyone care now?	Nov 07 02:19
kingoffrance	20 years ago they loved "big tech"	Nov 07 02:19
kingoffrance	i just find it hard to believe they actually flipped	Nov 07 02:19
CrystalMath	the gop?	Nov 07 02:20
CrystalMath	yeah they don't really hate big tech	Nov 07 02:20
CrystalMath	they pretend to	Nov 07 02:20
CrystalMath	i just sorta hoped Trump is real	Nov 07 02:20
CrystalMath	he might still be	Nov 07 02:20
kingoffrance	well not just "the gop" but all the "big xyz" usually was coming from "the other side" so in that sense maybe there is a little bit of real, in the sense they had to change their tune	Nov 07 02:22
kingoffrance	in a sort of "current business env is not broken, its just the monopolists ruining it" sort of way	Nov 07 02:22
CrystalMath	i separate Trump from the GOP, btw	Nov 07 02:22
kingoffrance	i mean that seems a 180 too	Nov 07 02:22
kingoffrance	yeah, thats fine	Nov 07 02:22
CrystalMath	before Trump i don't think i'd ever dream of supporting republicans	Nov 07 02:23
CrystalMath	but then again i did a 180° as well	Nov 07 02:23
MinceR	maybe this election will also separate don the con from the gop :>	Nov 07 02:24
CrystalMath	MinceR: but Trump is good	Nov 07 02:24
MinceR	for what?	Nov 07 02:24
CrystalMath	idk, his personality	Nov 07 02:24
CrystalMath	his whole "screw the system" mentality	Nov 07 02:24
CrystalMath	and his supporters... the whole degentrification mentality	Nov 07 02:25
CrystalMath	returning to the wild west	Nov 07 02:25
CrystalMath	anti-science (which i support because i believe industrial society is leading us to a horrifying end)	Nov 07 02:25
MinceR	was the wild west a christian fundamentalist dystopia?	Nov 07 02:25
CrystalMath	(cite note 1: Industrial Society And Its Future, by Dr. Ted Kaczynski)	Nov 07 02:26
MinceR	lol	Nov 07 02:26
MinceR	dump is leading us to a horrifying end	Nov 07 02:26
CrystalMath	no, technology is	Nov 07 02:26
CrystalMath	i think i'm firmly on the anti-science camp in the sense that i want to stop scientific progress, even with force if necessary	Nov 07 02:27
CrystalMath	i'm not against the scientific method, nor do i believe in magic or anything	Nov 07 02:27
MinceR	and what sort of force is available to you without science and technology?	Nov 07 02:27
CrystalMath	i know science is "right", but, it should not be done	Nov 07 02:27
MinceR	are you planning to bite scientists and engineers to death?	Nov 07 02:28
CrystalMath	well i guess you haven't read the paper	Nov 07 02:28
CrystalMath	you see the kind of technology that is bad is the kind that you can't make yourself	Nov 07 02:28
MinceR	there's probably terabytes of stupid shit i haven't read	Nov 07 02:28
CrystalMath	it's a really interesting read	Nov 07 02:29
CrystalMath	http://editions-hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf	Nov 07 02:29
kingoffrance	i guess the other way is ive always been try to build your own tech the way you want CrystalMath so ive always been pro-tech in that sense	Nov 07 02:30
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kingoffrance	because i grew up when there were "personal computers"	Nov 07 02:30
kingoffrance	so that was kind of implied at a far off level anyways	Nov 07 02:31
CrystalMath	there are still personal computers	Nov 07 02:31
kingoffrance	and homebrew computer club that was very much their definition too	Nov 07 02:31
CrystalMath	tbh, i guess i could write a paper on why free software is so successful	Nov 07 02:31
CrystalMath	free software is one thing people can do while remaining autonomous	Nov 07 02:31
CrystalMath	without anyone telling them what to do or how to do it	Nov 07 02:31
CrystalMath	this is why people are so happy to do it	Nov 07 02:32
CrystalMath	even for nothing	Nov 07 02:32
kingoffrance	yeah, i just mean that was more the normal attitude i think, that a computer exists to serve the one person sitting behind it	Nov 07 02:32
CrystalMath	because you can't be happy when you're controlled or monitored	Nov 07 02:32
MinceR	i hate to burst your bubble, but free software _is_ technology	Nov 07 02:32
CrystalMath	MinceR: yes but clearly not the bad kind, as you can build it at home... although, any technology that cannot be maintained by a single person is still bad, so systemd is bad by this definition	Nov 07 02:32
CrystalMath	despite being free software	Nov 07 02:32
MinceR	systemd is not free software, it was designed to take our freedoms away	Nov 07 02:33
CrystalMath	i think that we can explain the psychology of systemd opposition this way too... using it means you lose your autonomy	Nov 07 02:33
CrystalMath	exactly	Nov 07 02:33
CrystalMath	so are smartphones	Nov 07 02:33
CrystalMath	and cars	Nov 07 02:33
CrystalMath	especially self-driving cars	Nov 07 02:33
kingoffrance	there were even ppl saying dont put computers in school, they will become "part of the system" and be used againt ppl	Nov 07 02:33
kingoffrance	i mean that is lost history	Nov 07 02:33
kingoffrance	point being, they were pro-tech, but didnt want it co-opted	Nov 07 02:34
thddx	i see your point and have a rough idea of kaczynski's position, but i don't think tech is to blame. the direction of 'innovation' due to capitalist incentives are more the problem	Nov 07 02:34
thddx	and trump sure as hell isn't the remedy to that	Nov 07 02:35
CrystalMath	well i don't know if socialism would be a system where nobody tells you what to do or how to do it	Nov 07 02:36
MinceR	it would be more useful if people who blamed "capitalism" or "capitalists" for things defined what they mean by that	Nov 07 02:36
MinceR	i think that "system" is called anarchism :>	Nov 07 02:36
thddx	you are right. no 'isms' are precise enough to make an argument	Nov 07 02:37
CrystalMath	although i suppose there's individualist socialism	Nov 07 02:37
CrystalMath	like Oscar Wilde	Nov 07 02:37
thddx	in this case, i mean making suboptimal engineering choices to maximize revenue. effectively, engineering consumer needs	Nov 07 02:38
CrystalMath	i would definitely prefer suboptimal engineering choices, when it comes to stuff that simply should not exist, like surveillance	Nov 07 02:39
CrystalMath	the more mistakes they make in there, the better	Nov 07 02:39
thddx	i consider surveillence to be one of those misdirected "innovations" that are a waste of human energy and bits	Nov 07 02:41
thddx	driven by reveune and control seeking incentives	Nov 07 02:41
CrystalMath	okay but socialists are also very control seeking	Nov 07 02:43
CrystalMath	most of the time	Nov 07 02:44
CrystalMath	and US democrats are definitely control seeking	Nov 07 02:44
MinceR	so are the "republicans"	Nov 07 02:44
thddx	that's why I don't like 'isms'. they have too much historic baggage. the ideal would be a reimagining of past systems, ideally driven by universally ethical incentives and full information parity	Nov 07 02:47
CrystalMath	idk, i think that industrial society itself is control-seeking	Nov 07 02:47
CrystalMath	that's the point Kaczynski makes	Nov 07 02:48
CrystalMath	and so, one has to be antisocial towards it	Nov 07 02:48
thddx	right. and that makes sense	Nov 07 02:48
MinceR	that's fixable by decentralising industry	Nov 07 02:48
MinceR	ensuring that individuals have access to the tools to produce technology with	Nov 07 02:49
thddx	i think technology is an essential input toward engineering a better incentivized and functioning society	Nov 07 02:49
MinceR	e.g. rapid prototyping tools	Nov 07 02:49
MinceR	technology is an essential input toward long-term survival	Nov 07 02:49
MinceR	and so toward any long-term goal other than extinction	Nov 07 02:49
thddx	indeed	Nov 07 02:49
MinceR	there are threats we simply can't survive without technology	Nov 07 02:49
CrystalMath	there is no long term goal beyond extinction	Nov 07 02:50
CrystalMath	we WILL be extinct one day	Nov 07 02:50
MinceR	for you, perhaps	Nov 07 02:50
CrystalMath	even if it's the end of the universe	Nov 07 02:50
CrystalMath	no, for literally everything	Nov 07 02:50
CrystalMath	science (which i put some hate on earlier) predicts an end for the universe	Nov 07 02:50
thddx	sure. but it's a whole lot more fun to make it to the last level	Nov 07 02:50
MinceR	with sufficiently advanced science and technology, we can probably circumvent that	Nov 07 02:50
MinceR	just as we circumvented the inability to see at night, or the inability to fly	Nov 07 02:51
CrystalMath	MinceR: good luck circumventing expansion :P	Nov 07 02:51
CrystalMath	and the big freeze	Nov 07 02:52
CrystalMath	should you somehow succeed	Nov 07 02:52
CrystalMath	there's also the fun big rip to take of, then	Nov 07 02:52
MinceR	those are all fixed by either moving to a younger universe or by creating one and moving to it	Nov 07 02:53
CrystalMath	you can't do that, however, because you're made of this universe	Nov 07 02:53
thddx	my father is a "why try, it's all doomed" type of person. i think that's why i buck the notion and favor more transhumanist ideals	Nov 07 02:54
CrystalMath	it may be possible to transfer information between universes however, if you accept my very own fringe theory of CBR being photons released by the destruction of another universe	Nov 07 02:54
CrystalMath	but something has to catch it in there	Nov 07 02:54
CrystalMath	and there will most likely be nothing to do that	Nov 07 02:54
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CrystalMath	MinceR: also be aware that there is always a small chance that all humans are instantly wiped out by a vacuum decay event	Nov 07 03:02
CrystalMath	the chance is fairly small but if you give it 10^100 years	Nov 07 03:03
CrystalMath	it will happen	Nov 07 03:03
CrystalMath	we WILL die	Nov 07 03:03
CrystalMath	it's gonna end, and there's nothing anyone can do about it	Nov 07 03:03
MinceR	i'm aware of it	Nov 07 03:03
CrystalMath	so extinction is therefore what we are heading towards	Nov 07 03:03
MinceR	but "there is always a small chance" doesn't mean it will happen before we manage to protect ourselves against it somehow	Nov 07 03:03
CrystalMath	as for me, i wished i lived before	Nov 07 03:03
MinceR	e.g. by spreading across universes	Nov 07 03:04
CrystalMath	1) that is not possible, as we are made of this universe; even information spreading across universes cannot materialize without preparation on the other side	Nov 07 03:04
MinceR	as for transfer, it might be possible to fold or interconnect space somehow between universes, and then we can just go	Nov 07 03:04
CrystalMath	any piece of one universe in another universe will trigger vacuum decay	Nov 07 03:04
MinceR	also, stuff like vacuum decay spreads at light speed	Nov 07 03:05
CrystalMath	yes	Nov 07 03:05
CrystalMath	you can't catch it before it happens	Nov 07 03:05
MinceR	and we might be able to outrun that via FTL travel	Nov 07 03:05
MinceR	e.g. an Alcubierre drive	Nov 07 03:05
CrystalMath	okay, just order -1T of something and you're good to go :P	Nov 07 03:05
CrystalMath	you literally can't even know that it's happening	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	and still, eventually you'll be hit by one you didn't expect	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	face it, omae wa mou shinde iru	Nov 07 03:06
MinceR	no u	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	well yes, me too	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	and everyone	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	we're all dead some day	Nov 07 03:06
CrystalMath	and gone forever	Nov 07 03:07
CrystalMath	there's not even a theory of surviving indefinitely	Nov 07 03:07
MinceR	it's not terribly complicated	Nov 07 03:07
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CrystalMath	i suppose it's not, it's just the end, pretty simple	Nov 07 03:07
MinceR	fix the issues that prevent you from doing so, possibly by improving or replacing your body, possibly several times, possibly infinite times	Nov 07 03:07
CrystalMath	you can't fix the issues with the very universe you're made of	Nov 07 03:08
CrystalMath	none of it is built to last	Nov 07 03:08
MinceR	i might be able to leave it	Nov 07 03:08
MinceR	and none of it is built in the first place	Nov 07 03:08
CrystalMath	i would definitely not bet on it	Nov 07 03:08
MinceR	it's just an inflated quantum fluctuation of vacuum	Nov 07 03:08
CrystalMath	i wonder if this bunch of crappy animals on earth is even gonna visit another star system	Nov 07 03:09
CrystalMath	before being snuffed out	Nov 07 03:09
CrystalMath	but it's certainly not theoretically impossible	Nov 07 03:09
MinceR	i, too, wonder	Nov 07 03:09
MinceR	humans are certainly doing this whole survival thing very badly	Nov 07 03:10
CrystalMath	well, i'm certainly going to die, and i'll die happy knowing that the best theories of the universe guarantee the end of humans at some point in time	Nov 07 03:13
CrystalMath	therefore whatever hell you create won't be forever	Nov 07 03:13
CrystalMath	i still firmly believe that humans are incapable of creating anything but hell	Nov 07 03:16
CrystalMath	it would truly be best if you left design to weasels or minks	Nov 07 03:16
MinceR	well, i think humans will either kill themselves off (most likely) or they'll get their act together and create something other than hell	Nov 07 03:17
CrystalMath	hmm, i think it's most likely that they will create hell	Nov 07 03:17
CrystalMath	that's kinda why i want to die	Nov 07 03:17
MinceR	there are some difficult prerequisites for the second	Nov 07 03:17
MinceR	like defeating religion and anti-science	Nov 07 03:18
CrystalMath	religion and anti-science are the only things preventing the creation of hell	Nov 07 03:18
MinceR	they'd probably also need to defeat authoritarianism	Nov 07 03:18
CrystalMath	you can only defeat authoritarianism by defeating science	Nov 07 03:18
MinceR	because i doubt humans can research and develop effectively enough while being oppressed	Nov 07 03:18
MinceR	it hasn't worked so far, afaict	Nov 07 03:18
MinceR	nope, authoritarianism existed well before the scientific method was invented	Nov 07 03:19
CrystalMath	the average person in those days had a happier more fulfilling life	Nov 07 03:19
CrystalMath	and was less controlled	Nov 07 03:19
CrystalMath	because the rulers didn't have the tools to control them	Nov 07 03:20
CrystalMath	and i'm still sad about the minks in denmark :(	Nov 07 03:20
CrystalMath	MinceR: idk, i still can't see the democrats and black lives matter as a good thing; recently they stabbed some woman	Nov 07 03:32
CrystalMath	i think Trump was a shining star protecting us all from destroying ourselves	Nov 07 03:32
CrystalMath	despite the fact that he is president right now and did absolutely nothing about this	Nov 07 03:32
CrystalMath	i don't know what to think	Nov 07 03:33
CrystalMath	i know US democrats are evil; but what to do?	Nov 07 03:33
MinceR	the two-party system doesn't do "good things"	Nov 07 03:41
MinceR	it does "evil" and "even more evil"	Nov 07 03:41
MinceR	you need to fix or abolish the system if you want "good"	Nov 07 03:42
CrystalMath	and that's exactly why i like Trump, he's an independent	Nov 07 03:44
CrystalMath	the only other one is Rand Paul	Nov 07 03:44
CrystalMath	and then you have Jo Jorgensen	Nov 07 03:44
CrystalMath	and Jill Stein? was she a candidate again?	Nov 07 03:44
CrystalMath	i suppose Bernie Sanders also counts as being outside the establishment	Nov 07 03:45
CrystalMath	but he was a senator for a long time	Nov 07 03:45
oarion7	CrystalMath: You don't like Tulsi much?	Nov 07 03:46
oarion7	I sympathize with a lot of what you've written here	Nov 07 03:46
oarion7	I'd say she's the only Dem I like, and Ran Paul the only Republican, but not always, sometimes he morphs into a normal Republican circus clown	Nov 07 03:47
oarion7	Part of reaching the level of Senator I suppose	Nov 07 03:48
oarion7	I liked some of Trump's campaign promises, but lost interest within a few months of his entering office	Nov 07 03:49
oarion7	Did not vote but was relieved when he won and kept a hopeful attitude until he bombed Syria. Within the last year it became apparent that once in power his persona/character, once in a position of power, only served to manufacture consent for neoliberalism by rendering normal opposition to it unfashionable and toxic	Nov 07 03:55
CrystalMath	it was cool that he said no to the TTIP	Nov 07 03:57
CrystalMath	that was a happy day	Nov 07 03:57
oarion7	Kind of like why Tucker Carlson, who is in many ways particularly unpalatable vis-a-vis mainstream sensibilities, is the only mainstream media figure who was permitted by the state or capital or whatever to critique the Trump Administration's foreign policies, albeit articulated in a language of personal support for Trump	Nov 07 03:57
CrystalMath	also, Trump left Syria, and tried to leave Afghanistan	Nov 07 03:57
CrystalMath	but he also killed Soleimani in the name of Israel	Nov 07 03:58
CrystalMath	that sucked	Nov 07 03:58
CrystalMath	i mean that was outrageous	Nov 07 03:58
MinceR	Agent Orange is not an independent, he's a "republican"	Nov 07 03:59
CrystalMath	for the past 9 years	Nov 07 03:59
CrystalMath	before that he was a democrat	Nov 07 03:59
MinceR	and since he's a complete moron, if he ever does something nondestructive, it's just random chance	Nov 07 03:59
MinceR	not really something one can build on	Nov 07 03:59
oarion7	CrystalMath: Every time Trump "tried" to end a war he just made it more unpopular to oppose war. The previous propaganda formula, of the Obama adminsitration had been exhausted, which was to make war cool	Nov 07 03:59
oarion7	We also never left Syria	Nov 07 04:00
oarion7	Even after, again, being hopeful, I fell into that a couple of times too, but the US did not leave Syria. Trump did not leave Syria. They are still there, and they are still arming al Qaeda	Nov 07 04:00
oarion7	But Trump would end US wars -- as would any US president -- if there were a large enough, and I mean truly massive, anti-war movement in this country	Nov 07 04:01
CrystalMath	covfefe still remains a fond memory	Nov 07 04:01
oarion7	So there is a grave moral failure on our part, culturally, I mean it's equally a media problem, those are one in the same thing, its a reminder that "blame" is sort of useless in this scenario, but we are collectively "culpable" nonetheless	Nov 07 04:02
CrystalMath	i think he was the best president in a long time	Nov 07 04:02
oarion7	He's definitely my favorite cartoon character	Nov 07 04:03
oarion7	I mean I continued into this election season to watch him often with a smile on my face	Nov 07 04:03
oarion7	But 9/11 was a big landmark in the descent into empire and fascism	Nov 07 04:03
CrystalMath	right, that's when he became a democrat	Nov 07 04:04
oarion7	I don't know	Nov 07 04:04
CrystalMath	that's when democrats were firmly on the right side	Nov 07 04:04
CrystalMath	in the 2000s	Nov 07 04:04
CrystalMath	until Obama showed that he's a bastard like every other US president	Nov 07 04:04
oarion7	The Democrats were firmly on the right side once the war in iraq became unpopular, yes	Nov 07 04:04
CrystalMath	and that's when Trump changed to republican, in 2011	Nov 07 04:05
oarion7	In 2003 it was all pretty ugly, the major players (I was young, I can't remember if "most") among the Dems were supportive of the war	Nov 07 04:05
oarion7	But yes maybe a third of the Trump base today could go back and watch clips of keith oberman on MSNBC in 2008 and find it entirely agreeable	Nov 07 04:06
CrystalMath	maybe it would be best if Kanye wins	Nov 07 04:09
CrystalMath	i kinda hoped for Kanye2020 back in 2017	Nov 07 04:12
MinceR	lol	Nov 07 04:30
oarion7	CrystalMath: Bed time for me nice chatting with you	Nov 07 04:35
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schestowitz	[04:12] <CrystalMath> i kinda hoped for Kanye2020 back in 2017	Nov 07 08:03
schestowitz	This says all I need to know about your "politics"	Nov 07 08:03
schestowitz	vote when you reach age 18	Nov 07 08:03
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oiaohm	If I remember right in the USA you can vote before you can go to the pub to drown your sorrows over who has won.	Nov 07 08:58
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schestowitz	EFF Meme	Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	> http://techrights.org/2020/11/06/youtube-dl-meme-eff/	Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	> <http://techrights.org/2020/11/06/youtube-dl-meme-eff/>	Nov 07 09:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| [Meme] EFF Fails to Learn an Important Lesson \| Techrights		Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	>	Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	> If it's damning that the EFF only addresses half the issue (no dispute	Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	> there) then how much worse is it that the FSF says nothing about it at all?	Nov 07 09:06
schestowitz	What's an FSF?	Nov 07 09:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: DragonBox Pyra handheld Linux gaming PC begins shipping this month http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144098 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fda4803d-f570-47c3-a79f-3faf7b7c967c]		Nov 07 09:25
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 10 File Compression Utilities on Linux • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144106 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3a82fb42-e05d-43aa-9c03-a9842ff97dd6]		Nov 07 10:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: TrueCrypt on modern Linux distributions • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144107 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1bb18ebf-2e33-4749-b02d-863b16bdd492]		Nov 07 10:11
schestowitz	vZS1: will write about https://letsencrypt.org/2020/11/06/own-two-feet.html	Nov 07 10:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-letsencrypt.org \| Standing on Our Own Two Feet - Let's Encrypt - Free SSL/TLS Certificates		Nov 07 10:15
schestowitz	https://lwn.net/Articles/836497/rss	Nov 07 10:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Fallout from upcoming Let's Encrypt certificate changes [LWN.net]		Nov 07 10:15
schestowitz	thoughts welcome..	Nov 07 10:15
schestowitz	Put in simple terms, sites that adopt HTTPS with the 'free' (so-called) Let's Encrypt will become inaccessible to a lot of visitors. In the name of fake 'privacy', which does nothing about spying at the endpoints (like data sells to brokers).	Nov 07 10:18
schestowitz	thoughts anyone?	Nov 07 10:22
schestowitz	Look who backs this. Look who funds this. Look where the code is hosted (proprietary Microsoft GitHub). Even the site is outsourced to proprietary Microsoft GitHub...	Nov 07 10:23
schestowitz	So much for security, considering how close Microsoft and the NSA have long been	Nov 07 10:23
schestowitz	The Let's Encrypt monopoly is reinforcing monopoly and monopolies (Let's Encrypt itself is fast becoming a monopoly and it helps large companies further monpolise the Web)	Nov 07 10:23
schestowitz	Why would anyone wish to turn away users in the name of fake 'privacy' or dubious levels of confidentiality? If the Let's Encrypt folks somehow hand over keys to the government (e.g. under Trump NSLs), then what good is it really? It not only helps monopolies but also empires.	Nov 07 10:23
schestowitz	Let's Encrypt may claim to be a liberating and democratising force, but that's assuming it does what it says on the tin.	Nov 07 10:23
vZS1	The discussion should lead the user to devices and browsers that let them have a local list of public keys they trust. That's the basic function of TLS anyways. The concept of a CA needs to be binned altogether.	Nov 07 10:25
vZS1	You can still trust certs yourself on Firefox. Just ignore the browser warnings.	Nov 07 10:27
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/03/04/lets-ask-lets-encrypt/	Nov 07 10:27
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Techrights Urges Readers to Ask the Linux Foundation’s Let’s Encrypt (Backed by Companies That Give the NSA Back Doors) Some Hard But Legitimate Questions \| Techrights		Nov 07 10:28
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vZS1	schestowitz: what TR should tell users is to start trusting self-signed certificates in favour of certs provided by CAs	Nov 07 10:29
vZS1	Let's Encrypt is a vehicle for maintaining the trust monopoly	Nov 07 10:29
vZS1	It's free so people blindly just use it	Nov 07 10:30
vZS1	Without realising they're just further entrenching the trust monopoly	Nov 07 10:30
schestowitz	yes, thanks	Nov 07 10:31
schestowitz	I will quote you	Nov 07 10:31
schestowitz	it's a later article	Nov 07 10:31
vZS1	Anyone can generate TLS certs with openssl (or even more secure libressl)	Nov 07 10:31
vZS1	libressl is by the OpenBSD team. It's the best TLS software around.	Nov 07 10:31
schestowitz	yes, I am aware	Nov 07 10:32
vZS1	Just making notes for further reference	Nov 07 10:32
scientes	it is called openssl	Nov 07 10:33
scientes	and it has the best optimized crypto routines you can get	Nov 07 10:33
schestowitz	https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&ei=6XemX8TnBpKagQbayq7IDA&q=libressl++techrights&oq=libressl++techrights	Nov 07 10:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-libressl techrights - Google Search		Nov 07 10:33
schestowitz	scientes: based on it	Nov 07 10:33
scientes	well none of the forks have much development happening on them	Nov 07 10:34
vZS1	There's nothing magical about TLS certificates. If someone has something like WordPress, you can just use libressl to generate your own certs and then put a banner on the top of your info page on your website asking users to trust whichever cert you generated and hasn't expired	Nov 07 10:34
scientes	there is a lack of paid maintainer problem	Nov 07 10:34
scientes	and thus ownership	Nov 07 10:34
scientes	GNUCrypt has pretty dedicated maintainers (disclosure: I have done paid work on gcrypt)	Nov 07 10:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today’s #HowTos \| #UNIX • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144108 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2656a5ed-6203-41fd-bec1-4deef344ce1c]		Nov 07 10:35
scientes	vZS1, TLS is a horrible protocol	Nov 07 10:36
scientes	absolutely horrible	Nov 07 10:36
scientes	as is x509	Nov 07 10:36
scientes	but it is here to stay	Nov 07 10:37
scientes	anyone here have FPGA experience?	Nov 07 10:38
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vZS1	Trust should only exist between the provider of data and the consumer. Any other third party introduced into the system is an attack against privacy, security, and autonomy.	Nov 07 10:40
vZS1	Don't let quacks convince you otherwise. - encrypted systems specialist	Nov 07 10:41
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scientes	https://www.edaplayground.com/x/B	Nov 07 10:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.edaplayground.com \| FSM - EDA Playground		Nov 07 10:43
scientes	nice	Nov 07 10:43
schestowitz	https://lwn.net/Articles/836497/#Comments	Nov 07 10:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Fallout from upcoming Let's Encrypt certificate changes [LWN.net]		Nov 07 10:43
schestowitz	"Rooting old phones requires erasing them. I'd hazard that the users of those phones would be cautious about that (data loss), as opposed to current phones (loss of access to baking and game apps)."	Nov 07 10:43
scientes	that is quite optimizable	Nov 07 10:44
scientes	so perhaps verilog isn't a shit language, the problem is just lack of a free software implementation	Nov 07 10:44
*schestowitz looks at the code		Nov 07 10:45
scientes	just a simple state machine	Nov 07 10:45
scientes	looks half-way decent	Nov 07 10:45
schestowitz	Did FPGAs 2 decades back	Nov 07 10:46
scientes	while gcc can optimize something like that in C, clang cannot	Nov 07 10:46
schestowitz	I made a calculator	Nov 07 10:46
schestowitz	iirc inc. multiplication	Nov 07 10:46
scientes	maybe I could write a regular expression engine in verilog	Nov 07 10:46
scientes	division is harder than multiplication	Nov 07 10:47
scientes	and the PDIV intel bug is testament to that	Nov 07 10:47
schestowitz	https://lwn.net/Articles/836497/#Comments	Nov 07 10:48
schestowitz	"	Nov 07 10:48
schestowitz	Plausibly deniable way to send users up the upgrade treadmill.	Nov 07 10:48
schestowitz	C'mon, Android users! Throw away your devices, again!	Nov 07 10:48
schestowitz	"	Nov 07 10:48
scientes	schestowitz, apple products are woorse	Nov 07 10:49
scientes	they would refuse to install new BATTERIES until iphone 5	Nov 07 10:49
schestowitz	they are both bad	Nov 07 10:49
schestowitz	doesn't change the point	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	but android is the worse threat right now	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	*worst	Nov 07 10:50
schestowitz	[10:00] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): Cocaine or heroin? Both have helpful personalities https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/nov/07/alexa-or-google-nest-both-have-helpful/?business #surveillance #listeningDevices #imperialism #espionage [https://pleroma.site/objects/63c63291-2cb5-4a6c-9ae4-5a05db65a41b]	Nov 07 10:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.arkansasonline.com \| Alexa or Google Nest? Both have helpful personalities		Nov 07 10:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site		Nov 07 10:50
schestowitz	[from this morning]	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	schestowitz, actually, that says you can install firefox on them	Nov 07 10:50
schestowitz	yes, but	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	which is also why I think the pinephone won't be horrible	Nov 07 10:50
schestowitz	not sure how well it supports old versions	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	cause half of what I do on my phone is in firefox	Nov 07 10:50
scientes	you can even get a firefox build for armv6	Nov 07 10:51
scientes	old, but it will work on non-asshole WEB 5.0 web-sites	Nov 07 10:51
scientes	that's what I miss about firefox 3.5	Nov 07 10:51
scientes	when people actually supported a platform, unstead of a tradmill	Nov 07 10:52
scientes	the real problem here is the software	Nov 07 10:53
scientes	and that android is abandonware	Nov 07 10:54
schestowitz	MinceR:	Nov 07 10:55
schestowitz	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dwoC0EYStw	Nov 07 10:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Applying Patches To Suckless Software - YouTube		Nov 07 10:55
scientes	>	Nov 07 10:56
scientes	If you want my dmenu build, go to my GitLab and "git clone" the dmenu-distrotube repo. Then run "sudo make install". For those of you on Arch, you can "yay dmenu-distrotube-git".	Nov 07 10:56
scientes	he just built as root	Nov 07 10:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Comet Lake appears on mini-PC, AI Box, and Mini-ITX systems http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143939#comment-27080 [https://pleroma.site/objects/38e81e97-89a2-48e7-a230-44c899b1cf39]		Nov 07 10:59
vZS1	schestowitz: what we really need in a truly security-and-privacy respecting web browser is one that rejects all TLS certificates by default and only accepts certs the user agrees to accept. Right now the situation is the opposite of what it should be. Users have monopolised "trust providers" dictate which certs they accept.	Nov 07 11:01
vZS1	Kind of how you do when you set up SSH. You block all public keys by default and only allow ones you trust yourself. And you, the user, have full control of your trust system.	Nov 07 11:02
vZS1	Delegation of trust mechanisms to third parties is flagrant stupidity in any security system.	Nov 07 11:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #HowTo switch an old Windows laptop to Linux • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144109 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fc044c69-9ac9-4b1b-b52f-19c38ea28b5a]		Nov 07 11:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Videos/Shows: MATE 20.10, Suckless, Ubuntu 20.10 + Deepin, BSD Now and More • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144110 [https://pleroma.site/objects/84fa029f-1262-4af5-8232-456f7085fbef]		Nov 07 11:08
vZS1	In summary: right now you, the user, have a dictator ordering you whom you can and cannot trust. This is absurd. Your devices and software shouldn't stop functioning when you want to take back control over your trust. The current system is a dictatorship of CAs forcing people to give up control over their trust (and by extension, their security and privacy).	Nov 07 11:09
vZS1	schestowitz: you have my permission to publish all of what I said in your articles.	Nov 07 11:10
schestowitz	yes, I know	Nov 07 11:12
schestowitz	already adding to my notes as I go along	Nov 07 11:12
schestowitz	will edit later	Nov 07 11:12
vZS1	These are abuses against articles 12 and 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights	Nov 07 11:12
oiaohm	vZS1: sounds like a simple idea. Until you allow for the fact that you will have man in the middle fakes and cases of lost/stolen keys as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_revocation_list Part of CA system is not for no reasons.	Nov 07 11:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org \| Certificate revocation list - Wikipedia		Nov 07 11:12
schestowitz	working on some rss feed cleaning	Nov 07 11:13
schestowitz	in quiterss	Nov 07 11:13
oiaohm	Trust is a not the simplest thing.	Nov 07 11:13
schestowitz	today I saw it listed at top of recommended rss readers for gnu/linux	Nov 07 11:14
schestowitz	years ago nobody even knew about it	Nov 07 11:14
schestowitz	Russian-developed afaik	Nov 07 11:14
oiaohm	Humans lossing keys have been happening as long as we have had locks.	Nov 07 11:14
schestowitz	we were reasonably early adopters	Nov 07 11:14
schestowitz	oiaohm: I think he has you on "ignore"	Nov 07 11:14
vZS1	Going to head off for a while. Good luck with the RSS-cleaning.	Nov 07 11:14
schestowitz	kk	Nov 07 11:14
oiaohm	Big problem with the current CA system is your key is approved by 1 CA so third party can get that CA to issue another one to replace your content.	Nov 07 11:16
oiaohm	Same with every site run their own CA how would you deal with that CA master certificate being exploited.	Nov 07 11:16
oiaohm	Yes trust does not have to be just given but a system to take trust way that works correctly need to exist.	Nov 07 11:17
oiaohm	There is no existing model that is without major flaws.	Nov 07 11:17
oiaohm	Another horrible factor is human lazyness. Take how many people see a UAC message and just click yes without reading it.,	Nov 07 11:20
oiaohm	Really all the problems with CA really apply to the invidiual sites if you decide to go self issue.	Nov 07 11:30
vZS1	schestowitz: forgot to mention one other big point. The fact you can't block CAs in your browser and certain certificates is evidence enough of the malice behind the design and implementation of the web today.	Nov 07 11:36
schestowitz	added to notes	Nov 07 11:41
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mike Blumenkrantz Concludes His Work on Zink • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144111 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2c9eacfd-d6e8-4156-bf27-03d185946b6a]		Nov 07 11:42
oiaohm	vZS1: https://www.ssl.com/how-to/remove-root-certificate-firefox/ Sorry you are wrong. Firefox and chrome both do include means to remove CA you don't trust.	Nov 07 11:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Remove a Root Certificate in Firefox - SSL.com		Nov 07 11:44
oiaohm	But the process is not the most user friendly.	Nov 07 11:44
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wine 5.21 Announcement • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144112 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7cd93423-65bf-4d6b-81d9-0e904c84c012]		Nov 07 11:45
oiaohm	schestowitz: Claiming you cannot block CA in your browser has never been true. Enterprise usages I know it from having to setup browsers with only the companies CAs so horrible the company could spy on staff by man in middle proxy.	Nov 07 11:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Direct3D, SDL2 and FlightGear • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144113 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3ba04e58-36f8-4498-a430-0f2ba18a6177]		Nov 07 11:50
schestowitz	oiaohm: I am no cryptography expert/pro, but I know enough to tell you this status quo is all wron	Nov 07 11:51
schestowitz	*wrong	Nov 07 11:51
schestowitz	as trust is being outsourced and browsers embed this topology	Nov 07 11:51
schestowitz	in effect passing control to governments in bed with the companies that develop the browsers	Nov 07 11:51
oiaohm	I know enough that the status que is wrong and fixing it is not simple.	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	I worry less about man in the middle (some tell me I need to say "person" now)	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	I worry about the endpoints	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	FB has certd	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	oh, wow!	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	privacy	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	so they securely get my data	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	for just visiting sites with "like" buttons	Nov 07 11:52
schestowitz	and they they sell their data and hand it over to the Trump regime that now calls for beheading of Fauci	Nov 07 11:53
schestowitz	for warning about a real health crisis	Nov 07 11:53
oiaohm	Of course you are going to have people using facebook still trust facebook and keep on having their data collected no matter how you try to correct the encryption system.	Nov 07 11:53
schestowitz	what I want to know	Nov 07 11:53
schestowitz	who the people who are staffed by letsencrypt	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	worked for	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	previously	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	or years ago	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	would be interesting to know	Nov 07 11:54
kingoffrance	actually i brought that up in another channel; since in us corps are 14th amendment artificial persons, are they male or female? lol	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	we know >some< of their names, I have not done any background checks on them	Nov 07 11:54
kingoffrance	so "persons" is probably best you can do for facebook man-in-the-middling	Nov 07 11:54
oiaohm	kingoffrance: fun part is a human does not have to be just male or female either.	Nov 07 11:54
schestowitz	soem tend to gloat in Microsoft LinkedIn (like disseminating s CV to EVERYONE)	Nov 07 11:54
kingoffrance	oiaohm, yeah i mean they dont declare anything	Nov 07 11:55
oiaohm	kingoffrance: there is techically the rare dna screw up of sexless	Nov 07 11:55
kingoffrance	its totally an alchemy thing too wasnt knocking the other possibilities	Nov 07 11:55
oiaohm	Of course that causes those people all kinds of nightmares.	Nov 07 11:55
schestowitz	those are rare	Nov 07 11:55
schestowitz	they're real	Nov 07 11:55
schestowitz	not their fault	Nov 07 11:55
schestowitz	but rare cases	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	their real grievances are now exploited to declare the concept of gender as a whole void or man-made	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	oh, shit	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	I said man-made	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	homo sapient-made	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	so maybe we can be clearer	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	and start saying things like	Nov 07 11:56
schestowitz	person with a penis	Nov 07 11:57
schestowitz	or person with urethra	Nov 07 11:57
oiaohm	schestowitz: problem is the staff of letencrypt no matter how good they are since they are in the USA the NSA or equal can techically walk up and order them todo what ever and tell no one.	Nov 07 11:57
schestowitz	to avoid misunderstanding	Nov 07 11:57
schestowitz	oiaohm: yes, NSLs	Nov 07 11:57
schestowitz	and many Europeans and even CHinese/Russian rely on it	Nov 07 11:58
schestowitz	I even saw Persian sites that do	Nov 07 11:58
schestowitz	and they outsource to clownflare	Nov 07 11:58
schestowitz	so the traffic is routed via the US	Nov 07 11:58
schestowitz	they don't care as long as "it works"	Nov 07 11:58
schestowitz	yeah, works for Trump	Nov 07 11:58
oiaohm	That problem says you don't want a party approving a certificate really be based in one country.,	Nov 07 11:58
oiaohm	to make the process of rigging a certificate a complex multi national agreement thing.	Nov 07 11:59
oiaohm	That is unlikely to be successful.	Nov 07 11:59
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kingoffrance	does that mean "notification canary" ppl can get in trouble for too?	Nov 07 12:00
oiaohm	Technically they can give you a direct order todo nothing that gives any form of notification to the party they are interested in. Or even just basically replace the staff member with their own.	Nov 07 12:02
oiaohm	kingoffrance: so sorry the idea of notification canary as protection from government messing does not legally work.	Nov 07 12:02
oiaohm	so your objective needs to be make it practically impossible for the government to mess.	Nov 07 12:03
oiaohm	without tripping something.	Nov 07 12:03
schestowitz	does letsencrypt even have canaries?	Nov 07 12:04
schestowitz	never seen any	Nov 07 12:04
schestowitz	SELinux project of Red Hat (now IBM) used to issue monthly declarations about no government interventions. Those stopped years ago. What is it they say about canaries?	Nov 07 12:04
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oiaohm	schestowitz: I have never seen any letsencrypt documentation say they have canaries and if you know USA law on the matter canaries is basically false. One of the USA encrypted email systems that is shutdown now had canaries and when the NSA with NSL stepped in they were forbid from using them. So their end users knew nothing.	Nov 07 12:06
oiaohm	Yes part of design a new system to replace the current does required understanding the evil you are against.	Nov 07 12:07
oiaohm	NSL orders can say you have to keep on putting out that there has been no government interventions. Redhat stopped doing after the encrypted email cases when canaries were proven pointless protection.	Nov 07 12:09
oiaohm	Ok there are some countries if you are based in that canaries could be valid but any of the 5 eyes countries they are pointless. + china + russia and quite a few more countries.	Nov 07 12:10
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oiaohm	Lets say you have CA signing system that the certificate of a site can be signed many times in many countries. The NSA would then need to either get the site owner. Or manage to have multi country agreement to mess with the CA to make something appear valid.	Nov 07 12:12
oiaohm	Ie signed once would basically be instant hang on that been messed with.	Nov 07 12:12
oiaohm	Of course NSA/governement got owner of site there is not anything much you can do about that.	Nov 07 12:13
oiaohm	The same could be applied to if we could have git repos mirrored. If a single mirror goes out of alignment with the others that could be sign of someone attempting to mess.	Nov 07 12:15
oiaohm	I would call stuff like this as functional canary process.	Nov 07 12:15
oiaohm	Its something that is going to trigger if stuff is not working right be this government or server issues.	Nov 07 12:16
kingoffrance	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing i always thought that sounded neat	Nov 07 12:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org \| Shamir's Secret Sharing - Wikipedia		Nov 07 12:22
kingoffrance	specifically the extensible thing down at the bottom, i.e. you can revoke ex-employees, known bad actors, etc.	Nov 07 12:23
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schestowitz	Chaekyung: no article as of late	Nov 07 13:30
schestowitz	I noticed your rss feed was also reset a week ago	Nov 07 13:30
schestowitz	all old items showing up as "new"/"unread"	Nov 07 13:30
schestowitz	did not investigate the cause	Nov 07 13:30
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XRevan86	"If I remember right in the USA you can vote before you can go to the pub to drown your sorrows over who has won." – I don't have a problem with that.	Nov 07 14:29
XRevan86	Regarding Let's Encrypt I see the root of the problem in that it's fairly new, so to support software with old CA certificate bundles they need contractual obligations with an older CA, and they've decided it's no longer worth the effort.	Nov 07 14:35
MinceR	schestowitz: what's interesting about that video?	Nov 07 14:37
XRevan86	Maybe it isn't. I've backported CA certificates from newer Android, so at least I won't be affected by this.	Nov 07 14:45
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MinceR	(cat) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d8/f8/67/d8f867f8eb14db54895745778aca32e2.jpg	Nov 07 16:13
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CrystalMath	:P	Nov 07 16:17
schestowitz	OK, time to do a bunch of articles :-)	Nov 07 16:18
schestowitz	had a 2+ hour nap	Nov 07 16:18
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MinceR	(no audio) https://i.imgur.com/XIgj23a.mp4	Nov 07 16:26
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scientes	vZS1, you know what we REALLY NEED?	Nov 07 16:42
scientes	<XRevan86> Regarding Let's Encrypt I see the root of the problem in that it's fairly new, so to support software with old CA certificate bundles they need contractual obligations with an older CA, and they've decided it's no longer worth the effort.	Nov 07 16:42
scientes	exactly	Nov 07 16:42
scientes	they needed it to launch	Nov 07 16:42
scientes	and now they are like "fuck those ass-hats"	Nov 07 16:43
scientes	especially when they are the type of guys that get along well with the free software people at the web browser places	Nov 07 16:43
scientes	bro code	Nov 07 16:43
scientes	Mark Shuttleworth managed to go to space (literally) by doing exactly that	Nov 07 16:43
scientes	Damn, I wish I was younger and cold have just played the $$ dollar slot machine to go to space	Nov 07 16:44
scientes	like Warren Buffet	Nov 07 16:44
scientes	and other puffs of air	Nov 07 16:44
scientes	XRevan86, whoever thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the mountain usually forgets that stupidity is infinite at all points in the universe	Nov 07 16:46
schestowitz	I am doing an article on LE	Nov 07 17:13
schestowitz	I dug up their IRS filings	Nov 07 17:13
schestowitz	this should be interesting	Nov 07 17:13
schestowitz	MinceR: why backwards?	Nov 07 17:15
MinceR	for teh lulz	Nov 07 17:15
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/463344200_201812_990_2019110116809348.pdf	Nov 07 17:15
schestowitz	find any oddities	Nov 07 17:15
schestowitz	I found severa	Nov 07 17:15
MinceR	but if you want it forwards, it's at https://imgur.com/gallery/T0fGvhV	Nov 07 17:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-My upstairs neighbours are getting better with their hobby ʸᵃᵃᵃᵃᵃʸʸʸʸʸʸʸ - Album on Imgur		Nov 07 17:15
schestowitz	cheer	Nov 07 17:16
schestowitz	cheers	Nov 07 17:16
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/11/07/free-privacy-lunch/	Nov 07 17:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Let’s Encrypt is Garbage, Albeit It’s Disguised as ‘Free’ Privacy \| Techrights		Nov 07 17:33
CrystalMath	schestowitz: what do you think of the censorship Trump and his supporters have experienced through the last few years?	Nov 07 18:02
schestowitz	cite examples	Nov 07 18:02
schestowitz	I saw some, and they're not good examples	Nov 07 18:02
schestowitz	the high-profile latest example if Bannon calling for heads to be put on pikes	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	basically beheading health officials and head of FBI (director)	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	Trump declaring falsehoods	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	his son did too	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	and deliberately saw	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	strategic lies	Nov 07 18:03
CrystalMath	falsehoods according to you	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	that pose a threat to truth as well as elections	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	CrystalMath: cite examples	Nov 07 18:03
CrystalMath	so you support censorship?	Nov 07 18:03
MinceR	"from my point of view, the jedi are evil!"	Nov 07 18:03
schestowitz	where they flag as false a true post	Nov 07 18:04
CrystalMath	MinceR: mine too	Nov 07 18:04
MinceR	:>	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	CrystalMath: they did not censor in these cases but flagged	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	different thing	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	maybe we miscommunicate	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	I refer to Twitter mostly	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	Twitler	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	It became less afraid to flag Trump when it realised his days were numbered anyway	Nov 07 18:04
schestowitz	They admitted he violated their T&Cs many times	Nov 07 18:05
schestowitz	but feared retaliation if they banned him altogether	Nov 07 18:05
schestowitz	Trump threatened violence many times	Nov 07 18:05
schestowitz	and publicly called for it	Nov 07 18:05
MinceR	i really don't know what people who rely on a corporation they do not own for a platform expect	Nov 07 18:05
schestowitz	even against whole nations	Nov 07 18:05
CrystalMath	what about others... what about every post that for example cites the fact that COVID-19 only killed about a million people?	Nov 07 18:05
CrystalMath	and is therefore not dangerous	Nov 07 18:05
schestowitz	'only'	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	it killed about a million, say official numbers	Nov 07 18:06
CrystalMath	yes	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	the numbers come from health officials of nations	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	not WHO	Nov 07 18:06
CrystalMath	that's a miserably poor result for a supposed plague	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	so take the challenge to NHS, ministers of health, HHS etc.	Nov 07 18:06
CrystalMath	it's unnoticable	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	CDC I think does not directly deal with these figures	Nov 07 18:06
CrystalMath	the hong kong flu took 40 million	Nov 07 18:06
schestowitz	yes, so?	Nov 07 18:07
CrystalMath	in a time when the global population was 4 billion	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	this one could outdo 40 million	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	if we did not stay at home	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	(which we still do)	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	lockdown resumed here 3 days ago	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	today is day 3 of second lockdown across all of England	Nov 07 18:07
MinceR	"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic." -- Joseph Stalin	Nov 07 18:07
CrystalMath	Sweden never did one	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	MinceR: lol	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	how fitting	Nov 07 18:07
schestowitz	CrystalMath: they still work from home and wear masks	Nov 07 18:08
schestowitz	unlike COVIDiots	Nov 07 18:08
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schestowitz	they never said COVID-19 was not a threat	Nov 07 18:08
CrystalMath	Belarus never did one	Nov 07 18:08
schestowitz	Sweden is culturally better than the US	Nov 07 18:08
CrystalMath	and they don't even do what you said	Nov 07 18:08
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CrystalMath	Russia also won't do another lockdown, according to Putin	Nov 07 18:08
CrystalMath	but they have a vaccine	Nov 07 18:09
CrystalMath	so idk	Nov 07 18:09
schestowitz	lol	Nov 07 18:09
schestowitz	so do I	Nov 07 18:09
schestowitz	I call it	Nov 07 18:09
schestowitz	Apollo 5	Nov 07 18:09
schestowitz	Coming soon	Nov 07 18:09
XRevan86	CrystalMath: It's still undertested.	Nov 07 18:09
XRevan86	And after a statement that people who got COVID-19 after taking the vaccine must've been in the placebo group, I don't take it all that seriously.	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	they test is on southeast Asians	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	and maybe Latin Americans	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	I heard some people died from Sputnik 5/V	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	but what MinceR said, from Stalin	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	it doesn't officially fail until they have a "statistic"	Nov 07 18:10
XRevan86	I haven't heard of deaths from it. I think someone died from COVID-19. But maybe they got a placebo.	Nov 07 18:10
schestowitz	rianne said it was another vaccine	Nov 07 18:11
MinceR	XRevan86: they'll just test it in production!	Nov 07 18:11
schestowitz	sorry, not Sputik Homeopathy	Nov 07 18:11
MinceR	well, on people.	Nov 07 18:11
MinceR	who cares? :>	Nov 07 18:11
schestowitz	*Sputnik	Nov 07 18:11
schestowitz	Somewhere in Brazil	Nov 07 18:11
MinceR	people get to pay to become test subjects	Nov 07 18:11
CrystalMath	schestowitz: nothing suggests to me that COVID-19 would kill anywhere near 80 million	Nov 07 18:11
CrystalMath	even if left to its own devices	Nov 07 18:11
CrystalMath	which would be the threshold for having a noticable effect on the entire world	Nov 07 18:12
XRevan86	In actuality, the situation in St. Petersburg is very unpleasant. But business as usual.	Nov 07 18:12
CrystalMath	a million people... like more than that are born every week	Nov 07 18:13
MinceR	yeah, the birth rate needs to be reduced in a controllable way	Nov 07 18:13
MinceR	otherwise it will be reduced (along with population) in an uncontrollable way	Nov 07 18:13
CrystalMath	you know i really think that people involved with techrights genuinely do wish for good things like privacy, dignity, and integrity... but i think most go about it the wrong way	Nov 07 18:15
CrystalMath	namely, you support things that will ultimately lead to the destruction of these things	Nov 07 18:15
CrystalMath	such as leftism	Nov 07 18:15
XRevan86	Only Trump & Putin will lead us to the world of truly free software.	Nov 07 18:16
MinceR	lol	Nov 07 18:16
XRevan86	it'll be beautiful	Nov 07 18:16
CrystalMath	well no...	Nov 07 18:16
schestowitz	haha	Nov 07 18:17
CrystalMath	but Trump and Putin buy us time to develop it	Nov 07 18:17
MinceR	for the handful of survivors after the apocalypse that they'll cause, yes	Nov 07 18:17
CrystalMath	you see, it's the development of technology that leads to the destruction of freedom	Nov 07 18:17
MinceR	we've discussed this already, it doesn't	Nov 07 18:17
XRevan86	Ah, sabotage from Trump & Putin is what buys time, got it.	Nov 07 18:17
CrystalMath	and so, anyone who is anti-science like Trump supporters, is actually helping us	Nov 07 18:17
MinceR	it leads to long-term survival and the flourishing of freedom, if done right	Nov 07 18:18
CrystalMath	it cannot be done right because most humans can't do anything right	Nov 07 18:18
MinceR	and you don't get to have advanced technology without science	Nov 07 18:18
CrystalMath	right, but we need the progress to stop so that we can catch up	Nov 07 18:18
CrystalMath	with freedom	Nov 07 18:18
MinceR	also, according to 2 political compass tests, i'm not leftist	Nov 07 18:18
MinceR	or rightist	Nov 07 18:18
CrystalMath	i did one and i got that i'm right-leaning and ultra-libertarian	Nov 07 18:19
XRevan86	That's an interesting take, I haven't thought of a concept that an inefficient government drowning in its own piss is what can help software freedom flourish	Nov 07 18:19
CrystalMath	like, on the compass, i was 100% libertarian and 60% right-wing	Nov 07 18:19
CrystalMath	XRevan86: honestly i consider moving to Cuba	Nov 07 18:19
CrystalMath	over there everything progresses so slowly	Nov 07 18:19
CrystalMath	but honestly, my laziness would get the better of me, and i'd just enjoy life in the past and then die	Nov 07 18:19
XRevan86	CrystalMath: I doubt that view of Cuba is up to date.	Nov 07 18:19
MinceR	yes, but maybe it has "progressed" so far that the party will allow you to own a computer there!	Nov 07 18:20
CrystalMath	MinceR: yep	Nov 07 18:20
CrystalMath	it does	Nov 07 18:20
MinceR	maybe before you die, they'll even allow you to connect to the Internet!	Nov 07 18:20
MinceR	such freedom.	Nov 07 18:20
MinceR	what a rightist utopia, that cuba.	Nov 07 18:20
CrystalMath	lol, no :P	Nov 07 18:20
CrystalMath	but i mean, being inefficient	Nov 07 18:20
CrystalMath	is actually good when talking about government	Nov 07 18:20
MinceR	well, stalinism does inefficience quite well	Nov 07 18:20
MinceR	so does religious fundamentalism	Nov 07 18:21
XRevan86	CrystalMath: But you can go to North Korea and enjoy your freedom there.	Nov 07 18:21
MinceR	s/nce/ncy/	Nov 07 18:21
MinceR	yeah, north korea is way ahead of cuba	Nov 07 18:21
CrystalMath	right, they have legal marijuana, and are pro-LGBT too	Nov 07 18:21
MinceR	getting a computer or Internet access won't be your problem if you move there	Nov 07 18:21
MinceR	getting food will be	Nov 07 18:21
MinceR	https://i.redd.it/glevyd9y07921.jpg	Nov 07 18:22
CrystalMath	but leftism doesn't have freedom in its future	Nov 07 18:22
XRevan86	Oh yea, that one picture moves MinceR very far away from leftism.	Nov 07 18:22
XRevan86	because of the three guys… on the left	Nov 07 18:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 8 Best Free Linux Data Science Notebook Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144123 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a7d2ec10-e643-45ed-b06f-d312bccf9daf]		Nov 07 18:23
CrystalMath	whose's the second from the left?	Nov 07 18:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10 Best Linux Web Caches For Better Performance http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144124 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c321851b-b0c2-42e1-9ca0-ff7a9007948a]		Nov 07 18:24
XRevan86	CrystalMath: Engels	Nov 07 18:24
CrystalMath	ah	Nov 07 18:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: My Linux Setup in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144125 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ae03af08-a901-44ac-ab25-2d50fcc2588d]		Nov 07 18:25
kingoffrance	"left" and "right" came out of circa 1789 french revolution. the only thing they actually mean are"do we execute the king" or "do we let him live and vote him out" they are both monarchist-derived.	Nov 07 18:42
CrystalMath	https://dbhq.github.io/results/?czE9NyZzMD05MCZ0MT01MiZ0MD0xMiZjMD02NyZmZW1pPTcxJmMxPTE5JmIwPTcxJmIxPTEyJm0xPTc5Jm0wPTcmcDA9MTImcDE9NzkmajA9NzYmajE9MTAmZTA9NDUmZTE9MzgmYW5hcj0xMDA=	Nov 07 18:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-dbhq.github.io \| PolitiScales - Results		Nov 07 18:42
CrystalMath	hmm, long link	Nov 07 18:42
CrystalMath	just did a politiscales test	Nov 07 18:42
kingoffrance	that was there disagreement: how to handle the king	Nov 07 18:42
kingoffrance	*their	Nov 07 18:42
CrystalMath	woah, i'm up +30% on ecology since a year ago	Nov 07 18:43
CrystalMath	and +5% on communism	Nov 07 18:43
CrystalMath	+7% on laissez-faire	Nov 07 18:44
CrystalMath	and +10% on constructivism	Nov 07 18:45
CrystalMath	also +12% on nationalism somehow, dunno what i answered to cause that	Nov 07 18:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wine-Staging 5.21 Released For 737 Patches On Top Of Wine http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144112#comment-27083 [https://pleroma.site/objects/78bdffb3-03b0-435d-b49b-2f0f7333c60e]		Nov 07 18:45
CrystalMath	how to become more concerned about ecology: look at a picture of a beautiful field from the 50s and then go see it now after it's been dug up by an oil company	Nov 07 18:48
CrystalMath	worked for me	Nov 07 18:48
CrystalMath	definitely a strong push towards anarcho-primitivism	Nov 07 18:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenGL on top of Vulkan with ‘Zink http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144111#comment-27085 [https://pleroma.site/objects/acb38aae-31db-4a1b-8b20-b2dedb36f8b7]		Nov 07 18:49
*anonymous (beda0141@190.218.1.65) has joined #techrights		Nov 07 18:59
anonymous	hi, if your site cares so much about privacy, then why isn't it encrypted?	Nov 07 18:59
CrystalMath	maybe it's hard to get a cert	Nov 07 19:01
CrystalMath	that's what i assumed	Nov 07 19:01
anonymous	Let's Encrypt gives you free certs	Nov 07 19:01
anonymous	surprised people don't know this by now	Nov 07 19:01
CrystalMath	http://techrights.org/2020/11/07/free-privacy-lunch/	Nov 07 19:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Let’s Encrypt is Garbage, Albeit It’s Disguised as ‘Free’ Privacy \| Techrights		Nov 07 19:01
anonymous	and what's wrong with paying a little extra for privacy, anyways?	Nov 07 19:01
XRevan86	anonymous: There are technical reasons.	Nov 07 19:02
XRevan86	anonymous: And schestowitz is also LE-sceptical, which may affect his priorities.	Nov 07 19:02
anonymous	and hackers can hack packet recipients' browsers if the packets aren't encrypted	Nov 07 19:02
anonymous	and does this site have an onion address, too?	Nov 07 19:03
schestowitz	coming soon	Nov 07 19:03
anonymous	i just found it on duckduckgo so i assume it's at least a semi-authority site	Nov 07 19:03
schestowitz	duckduckgo si worse garbage than LE	Nov 07 19:04
anonymous	what's the best alternative?	Nov 07 19:04
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/07/02/ddg-privacy-abuser-in-disguise/	Nov 07 19:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Why People Should Never Ever Use DuckDuckGo \| Techrights		Nov 07 19:04
CrystalMath	there's startpage.com	Nov 07 19:04
anonymous	yea, that's the article i found	Nov 07 19:04
anonymous	how i found this site	Nov 07 19:04
schestowitz	there's more to privacy than packets that don't even contain passwords	Nov 07 19:04
anonymous	that's what i thought at first but there are more reasons	Nov 07 19:04
*XRevan86 just checked: startpage.com still blocks me %).		Nov 07 19:05
anonymous	how do we know startpage is better?	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	CrystalMath: startpage is mass surveillance http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Startpage	Nov 07 19:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Startpage - Techrights		Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	they are system1	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	seems they lacked a business model	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	as many do	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	so they silently sell out	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	WaterFox did	Nov 07 19:05
schestowitz	they are system1 now	Nov 07 19:05
XRevan86	anonymous: Seems like in the search engine area one is pretty much screwed.	Nov 07 19:06
XRevan86	anonymous: There are things like Searx, but you know.	Nov 07 19:06
schestowitz	https://system1.com/press/system1-welcomes-waterfox	Nov 07 19:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-System1 : Waterfox Has Joined System1		Nov 07 19:06
CrystalMath	schestowitz: it works over tor though	Nov 07 19:06
CrystalMath	sometimes it's the only search that does	Nov 07 19:06
schestowitz	XRevan86: depends on whose instance	Nov 07 19:07
XRevan86	> We apologize for the inconvenience: to prevent possible abuse of the Startpage.com service, your Internet connection has been prevented from accessing it at this time.	Nov 07 19:07
XRevan86	> This happens when a large number of search requests are received from one's Internet connection in a short amount of time -- for example, if you are using "screen-scraping" software, or if you are sharing a connection with many people, perhaps through a proxy service.	Nov 07 19:07
XRevan86	CrystalMath: If startpage.com works over TOR, it's a bug :D	Nov 07 19:07
schestowitz	lol	Nov 07 19:07
XRevan86	schestowitz: Indeed.	Nov 07 19:08
schestowitz	https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/f3gqoc/privacy_browser_waterfox_appears_to_be_sold_to/	Nov 07 19:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.reddit.com \| Privacy browser Waterfox appears to be sold to System1, a U.S. pay-per-click ad company that recently bought a majority of the Startpage search engine : privacy		Nov 07 19:08
XRevan86	And personal instances are useless in terms of cloaking oneself.	Nov 07 19:08
anonymous	but is ddg still preferable to google?	Nov 07 19:09
XRevan86	anonymous: In my opinion, it is.	Nov 07 19:09
*schestowitz makes new rule for oneself, no talking (myself) about covid19 here... I had something in mind (mental overload) while typing response to covid denier, then forgot what it was, wasted 5 minutes in vain trying to recall what that thing wa		Nov 07 19:09
schestowitz	XRevan86: low standards	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	biden-trump syndrome	Nov 07 19:10
anonymous	and what's wrong with LE?	Nov 07 19:10
anonymous	i use it	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	it's not the worst	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	and it's cheap	Nov 07 19:10
XRevan86	schestowitz: I know. What else is there to do though? Do you use search engines?	Nov 07 19:10
anonymous	i thought it's a just an org that companies donate to to give ppl free certs	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	but I saw some activists use it... who should know better	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	they're targets to the US government	Nov 07 19:10
schestowitz	XRevan86: I do, but am not happy with the status quo	Nov 07 19:11
anonymous	i mean, reddit's privacy community endoreses ddg, firefox, linux, etc	Nov 07 19:11
*schestowitz used scroogled, startpage until things became suspicious		Nov 07 19:11
*schestowitz used webcrawlers a lot back in the 90s and early 2000s... not it's system1-owned, just like startpage		Nov 07 19:11
schestowitz	*now	Nov 07 19:12
schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2019/11/04/startpage-dogpile-webcrawler-metacrawler/	Nov 07 19:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Startpage, Dogpile, WebCrawler, MetaCrawler and Maybe Many Others Send Data to a Surveillance Company Subsidised by the Goldman Sachs-Connected Court Square Capital Partners \| Techrights		Nov 07 19:12
anonymous	and why does this site have two separate freenode scripts	Nov 07 19:12
anonymous	or is that just freenode and nothing to do with this site	Nov 07 19:12
anonymous	i'm using noscript	Nov 07 19:12
smnthermes	I thought the "anonymous" nickname would already be reserved	Nov 07 19:13
anonymous	yea, it's more sarcasm because i'm probably not anonymous	Nov 07 19:13
anonymous	especially due to stuff like this site not being encrypted	Nov 07 19:14
anonymous	so i guess anyone who wanted to could read this whole chat. MITM attack	Nov 07 19:14
schestowitz	I see the IP	Nov 07 19:14
anonymous	maybe the sjw's will force us all to rename it to 'PITM' attack	Nov 07 19:15
schestowitz	[18:59] --> anonymous (beda0141@190.xxxx.1.xxxx) has joined this channel.	Nov 07 19:15
schestowitz	bots are persons?	Nov 07 19:15
anonymous	if anonymous is taken, there's still anonymouse	Nov 07 19:15
schestowitz	corporations are, I'm told	Nov 07 19:15
*anonymous has quit (Remote host closed the connection)		Nov 07 19:15
schestowitz	showing the IP again	Nov 07 19:16
schestowitz	Panama https://ipinfo.io/AS18809/190.218.0.0/16-190.218.0.0/23	Nov 07 19:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-190.218.0.0/23 Netblock Details - Cable Onda - IPinfo.io		Nov 07 19:17
smnthermes	» [16:04:20] <schestowitz> http://techrights.org/2020/07/02/ddg-privacy-abuser-in-disguise/	Nov 07 19:17
smnthermes	»	Nov 07 19:17
smnthermes	DDG is also using Microsoft Azure CDN in its 1st party domain	Nov 07 19:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org \| Why People Should Never Ever Use DuckDuckGo \| Techrights		Nov 07 19:17
smnthermes	If you don't live in the US, Flagfox extension will shows a flag of your country or a close one	Nov 07 19:17
CrystalMath	one can still use lycos.com	Nov 07 19:17
smnthermes	will show*	Nov 07 19:18
MinceR	PKI itself isn't terribly trustworthy either	Nov 07 19:18
CrystalMath	it's so ridiculously underused that nobody cares what people search there	Nov 07 19:18
CrystalMath	it's also owned by Trump republican	Nov 07 19:18
CrystalMath	*a Trump	Nov 07 19:18
MinceR	it's vulnerable to Rubber-Hose Cryptanalysis at any CA accepted by major browsers	Nov 07 19:18
smnthermes	And it shows Microsoft as ISP, despite DDG being hosted by AWS	Nov 07 19:18
CrystalMath	lycos.com is an option :)	Nov 07 19:18
CrystalMath	it also works over tor	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	CrystalMath: thanks for reminding me not to 'debate' COVID again	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	in these contextx	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	in these contexts	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	like I don't 'debate' climate change	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	Lycos is owned and funded by who?	Nov 07 19:19
CrystalMath	schestowitz: i'm not a covid denier, i simply don't believe it's dangerous; i don't even dispute the facts	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	it's a similar category	Nov 07 19:19
schestowitz	you claim fake about aspects of it	Nov 07 19:20
schestowitz	not its very existence	Nov 07 19:20
schestowitz	but things like its severity and measures taken	Nov 07 19:20
XRevan86	one can still use rambler.ru; it's so ridiculously underused that nobody cares what people search there; it's also owned by a Russian state bank	Nov 07 19:20
CrystalMath	schestowitz: yes i believe the measures are overblown	Nov 07 19:20
schestowitz	many climate change deniers say: 1) humans can't do anything about it or 2) not human's fault	Nov 07 19:20
schestowitz	(while acknowledging that it warms up)	Nov 07 19:20
CrystalMath	schestowitz: i believe that it's normal for a million people to die, because this happens every week	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	*humans'	Nov 07 19:21
CrystalMath	so like why make a fuss about it?	Nov 07 19:21
smnthermes	» [16:18:55] <CrystalMath> lycos.com is an option :)	Nov 07 19:21
smnthermes	»	Nov 07 19:21
smnthermes	Or searx.pussthecat.org	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	CrystalMath: not with hospitals overloaded like this	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	this kills many who are denied access to other health services	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	and we lack the number of respirators and ventilators we need	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	anyway, enough of that	Nov 07 19:21
CrystalMath	they put people on ventilators before it's needed IMO	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	searx now...	Nov 07 19:21
schestowitz	I found one instance that has worked for months	Nov 07 19:22
CrystalMath	there's an instance at snopyta	Nov 07 19:22
schestowitz	https://searx.feneas.org	Nov 07 19:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-searx.feneas.org \| searx		Nov 07 19:22
schestowitz	But I cannot vouch for its credibility	Nov 07 19:22
schestowitz	I just know it's almost always available	Nov 07 19:22
schestowitz	unlike many others that I tried	Nov 07 19:22
schestowitz	yewtu.be is also excellent	Nov 07 19:22
CrystalMath	no it's not	Nov 07 19:22
CrystalMath	it blocks browsers that don't run javascript	Nov 07 19:23
CrystalMath	thanks for reminding me to crack that	Nov 07 19:23
CrystalMath	i personally use invidious.kavin.rocks and invidious.zapashcanon.fr	Nov 07 19:23
CrystalMath	but yewtu.be requires some cookie that is computed by some heavy javascript code that changes	Nov 07 19:24
CrystalMath	nevertheless, i caught a pattern for the stuff they have and i'm certain i could write a program to generate this cookie	Nov 07 19:24
CrystalMath	something like what youtube-dl used to do before JSInterpreter	Nov 07 19:25
*inky has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)		Nov 07 19:25
CrystalMath	can you believe yewtu.be though, they even have code to attack people trying to run it in node.js	Nov 07 19:25
CrystalMath	i've never seen such extreme pro-javascript aggression	Nov 07 19:26
CrystalMath	well, i've seen sites that come close	Nov 07 19:27
CrystalMath	like byethost17	Nov 07 19:27
CrystalMath	i cracked theirs	Nov 07 19:27
CrystalMath	they do AES encryption of a cookie	Nov 07 19:27
schestowitz	the JS aspect is annoying indeed	Nov 07 19:29
CrystalMath	i should make a universal bypasser for these sites	Nov 07 19:31
CrystalMath	i think i'll call it, the JSpasser	Nov 07 19:31
CrystalMath	a pun on trespassert	Nov 07 19:31
CrystalMath	*trespasser	Nov 07 19:31
CrystalMath	to bypass all forms of anti-noscript "protection"	Nov 07 19:32
MinceR	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWifmDuJEA	Nov 07 19:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-TRESPASSER! - YouTube		Nov 07 19:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today’s #HowTos \| #UNIX • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144127 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ee53b266-c8a8-44d5-add7-0a13f21c1100]		Nov 07 19:40
*inky (~inky@5.77.189.137) has joined #techrights		Nov 07 19:43
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MinceR	https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/toilet-paper	Nov 07 21:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com \| Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Toilet Paper		Nov 07 21:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #ZDNet Calls #Windows #Ransomware #Linux to Keep Pages About Linux Full of Fear-Mongering Nonsense • 🆃🅴🅲🅷🆁🅸🅶🅷🆃🆂 ☞ http://techrights.org/2020/11/07/ransomware-at-zdnet/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/9b8784fd-ce4d-4f11-8388-39609e367117]		Nov 07 22:02
DaemonFC[m]	It's actually going to be kind of hard to say no to a Walmart laptop when the time comes.	Nov 07 22:11
DaemonFC[m]	Most of them can run Linux and I have my 15% discount.	Nov 07 22:11
DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: I just bought a second Honeywell air purifier. Between the discount and the electric company sending you $50 rebate checks...	Nov 07 22:13
DaemonFC[m]	I'm allergic as hell to dust mites and this apartment has dust like whoa. Like you can see the air when the sun shines in.	Nov 07 22:13
DaemonFC[m]	With one in the bedroom and one in the living room the air is actually, you know, invisible.	Nov 07 22:13
DaemonFC[m]	It took a long time to get the permanent filter technology right.	Nov 07 22:14
DaemonFC[m]	Those Ionic Breeze things turned out to be junk and they put a metric assload of Ozone into the air.	Nov 07 22:14
DaemonFC[m]	They ended up causing more health problems than the stuff they were scrubbing out of the air.	Nov 07 22:14
DaemonFC[m]	HEPA works, but if you run enough of them to get the same effect say hello to another $50 a month on your electric bill, AND there's a $20 filter every few months on all of them.	Nov 07 22:15
vZS1	DaemonFC[m]: what do you do on the laptop?	Nov 07 22:31
DaemonFC[m]	Just browse and Bittorrent. Some document stuff.	Nov 07 22:37
vZS1	DaemonFC[m]: that's doable on a budget laptop. A lightweight Linux distribution like Debian will keep things hassle-free. And I recommend using a window manager instead of a full-blown desktop environment like Gnome or KDE. Awesomewm is a good one.	Nov 07 22:45
vZS1	i3 works too	Nov 07 22:45
vZS1	DEs eat up a lot of RAM and CPU for almost no gain.	Nov 07 22:47
vZS1	Btw, anyone else notice storage becoming more expensive?	Nov 07 22:51
vZS1	I've been looking at external HDDs and feels like the price is rising faster than normal	Nov 07 22:52
*chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)		Nov 07 22:52
DaemonFC[m]	I updated my voter registration.	Nov 07 22:55
DaemonFC[m]	We're having ANOTHER election early next year. Stupid, right?	Nov 07 22:56
DaemonFC[m]	Waste money doing it all over again for locals.	Nov 07 22:56
MinceR	debian is no longer lightweight :>	Nov 07 23:01
smnthermes	Because of systemd?	Nov 07 23:04
MinceR	and gnome	Nov 07 23:05
MinceR	and probably other shit they dragged in because it's "modern"	Nov 07 23:05
DaemonFC[m]	Biden will get 306 electoral votes, to Trump's 232.	Nov 07 23:11
DaemonFC[m]	Trump got 306 last time and Clinton got 232, from different states.	Nov 07 23:11
oiaohm	That wacky.	Nov 07 23:12
DaemonFC[m]	That must sting.	Nov 07 23:12
schestowitz	:-D	Nov 07 23:12
DaemonFC[m]	Remember when he said he defeated her by the biggest margin ever and she was such a loser?	Nov 07 23:12
DaemonFC[m]	Now he gets her vote total from 2016. That's just priceless.	Nov 07 23:13
oiaohm	schestowitz: https://letsencrypt.org/2020/11/06/own-two-feet.html this here also shows another thing that is really bad. It says the CA lists on those android devices have not been updated from 2016. What about all the cases where a CA has been revoked from 2016 to now for doing bad things like selling full blown wild card certificates. Those old Android devices using include browser says that stuff is fine.	Nov 07 23:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-letsencrypt.org \| Standing on Our Own Two Feet - Let's Encrypt - Free SSL/TLS Certificates		Nov 07 23:14
schestowitz	https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19387049	Nov 07 23:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Golf-ball-for-brains will hopefully be arrested soon. #LockHimUp https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/11/06/trump-melts-down-biden-campaign-verging-win-says-it-will-be-perfectly-capable		Nov 07 23:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.commondreams.org \| As Trump Melts Down, Biden Campaign—Verging on Win—Says It Will Be 'Perfectly Capable of Escorting Trespassers' From White House \| Common Dreams News		Nov 07 23:15
oiaohm	Lot of ways CA system to work in theory is a lot like an anti-virus. Anti-virus without updated signatures is bad. CA system without maintained and updated CA lists is bad.	Nov 07 23:15
schestowitz	hilarious	Nov 07 23:16
MinceR	it's a bad idea anyway	Nov 07 23:16
schestowitz	even with double L	Nov 07 23:16
schestowitz	Hillaryious	Nov 07 23:16
vZS1	Install the Debian server image	Nov 07 23:16
vZS1	That shouldn't have GNOME on it	Nov 07 23:16
MinceR	still has cancerd	Nov 07 23:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144128 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b5f425d3-d4d8-41a5-901e-43118990e4f7]		Nov 07 23:17
vZS1	systemd doesn't really effect performance that much. My Pi has systemd on it and it barely makes a dent in the resource consumption.	Nov 07 23:18
schestowitz	depends on the specs	Nov 07 23:18
schestowitz	it sabotaged a lot in my old laptop	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	from 2009	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	took ages to boot and shut down	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	like 5 times longer, each	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	and performance in general was not the same	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	I am no systemd expert, so the correlation may be misplaced and coincidental	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	but the experience was, gnu/linux felt worse over time in those years	Nov 07 23:19
oiaohm	I still remember the embedded one where they compared systemd vs sysvinit vs busybox. For memory usage. All those different starting of bash/dash/busybox shell turn out not to be free.	Nov 07 23:19
schestowitz	systemd was integrated around 2015	Nov 07 23:19
oiaohm	Lot to of cases systemd is lighter in memory.	Nov 07 23:20
schestowitz	chromeOS still uses upstart of sysV iirc	Nov 07 23:20
schestowitz	I think the latter	Nov 07 23:20
schestowitz	didn't keep track	Nov 07 23:20
schestowitz	so Google rejects the "Excellent" IBMd	Nov 07 23:20
vZS1	On my Pi, systemd takes up about 41 MB of RAM on idle	Nov 07 23:20
schestowitz	same here	Nov 07 23:21
schestowitz	but it's part of the story	Nov 07 23:21
oiaohm	systemd did cause stall outs shutdown due to in fact detecting services still running and waiting for them to stop when sysvinit would just kill them out right.	Nov 07 23:21
schestowitz	remember MS Office 'heats' up on Windows	Nov 07 23:21
schestowitz	to fake startup time	Nov 07 23:21
oiaohm	Lot of cases there were issues with service shutdowns.	Nov 07 23:21
schestowitz	so you pay a tax for perception of lightweight, speed, etc.	Nov 07 23:21
vZS1	It's not ideal but it's not the worst. Besides, I don't have any hard dependencies on systemd so I'm fine.	Nov 07 23:21
oiaohm	that systemd made displayed and have been fixed in recent years.	Nov 07 23:21
vZS1	I run BSD machines just fine without it	Nov 07 23:22
schestowitz	maybe it performs well (does for me) on more modern machines	Nov 07 23:22
schestowitz	but being an upgrade treadmill thing is a Bad Thing(E)	Nov 07 23:22
schestowitz	(R)	Nov 07 23:22
oiaohm	Some of those one where systemd stalled on shutdown that were fixed. Explained using sysvinit system would result in random data stuff up if sysvinit managed to kill the service at exactly the right time.	Nov 07 23:22
MinceR	the more resources you can throw at it, the better it will perform	Nov 07 23:22
MinceR	that doesn't make it lightweight	Nov 07 23:23
oiaohm	Using shell script does not mean it always lightweight either.	Nov 07 23:23
MinceR	at least the shell scripts don't keep running all the time	Nov 07 23:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ☞ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144126 [https://pleroma.site/objects/27082c3a-ef8f-4c15-ac93-280afb1b8635]		Nov 07 23:24
vZS1	systemd is a kitchen sink solution	Nov 07 23:24
oiaohm	Yes and no lot of sysvinit shell script for services had lets pipe the output to some logging/monitoring that results in the bash not closing.	Nov 07 23:24
vZS1	It has its use cases	Nov 07 23:24
MinceR	then they were incorrectly written	Nov 07 23:25
oiaohm	shell scripts some of them from sysvinit would stay running for the complete time the system was up.	Nov 07 23:25
oiaohm	That was in the refrence implementation.	Nov 07 23:25
MinceR	then the reference implementation was badly written	Nov 07 23:25
vZS1	It's more when I'm having to deal with people who don't know anything other than systemd	Nov 07 23:25
MinceR	and yes, systemd has its uses cases... for ibm and the nsa	Nov 07 23:26
MinceR	it's definitely useful for them	Nov 07 23:26
oiaohm	Being a little smarter than sysvinit so being willing to wait for a service to end instead of dropping sedge hammer on it does have it uses in a lot of places.	Nov 07 23:27
oiaohm	Lot of odd ball data screw ups disappeared by that change.	Nov 07 23:27
MinceR	i wouldn't call waiting for an NFS server forever "smarter" than the good old SIGTERM, wait, SIGKILL, poweroff	Nov 07 23:28
MinceR	i also wouldn't call just plain SIGKILLing your shell "smarter" than that	Nov 07 23:29
DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: My experience has generally been the opposite. Boot and shut down are faster, even on older systems, but the delay in waiting for a service that won't shut down is way too long before killing it, requiring non-default options.	Nov 07 23:29
schestowitz	what specs/	Nov 07 23:29
schestowitz	?	Nov 07 23:29
vZS1	I think the reason it caught on is because it provided some sort of standard for distributions to converge towards. I may be wrong	Nov 07 23:29
schestowitz	today rianne had to restart plasma	Nov 07 23:29
schestowitz	after months before restart memory leaks added up	Nov 07 23:29
schestowitz	to 25% of her total RAM	Nov 07 23:30
schestowitz	kquitapp5 plasmashell	Nov 07 23:30
schestowitz	kstart5 plasmashell	Nov 07 23:30
schestowitz	sorted!	Nov 07 23:30
vZS1	Ouch	Nov 07 23:30
DaemonFC[m]	I've used systemd distributions on everything from an old Phenom II from 2009 and a Core 2 Duo from 2006 through this laptop.	Nov 07 23:30
MinceR	no, the reason it caught is because 1) some distros are controlled by hedrat and will do what their suits say; 2) many distros are derived from those; 3) debian was taken over from the inside by hedrat-controlled gnome people; 4) lots of distros are derived from debian and 5) many distros are maintained by people who have no idea what they're doing	Nov 07 23:30
oiaohm	Systemd does not wait forever. Waits a longer. Lot of NFS server stalls to disconnect turn out to be some other service using it that has not stopped yet.	Nov 07 23:30
schestowitz	vZS1: with lockdowns we got back in the groove	Nov 07 23:31
schestowitz	approx. 10 posts/day	Nov 07 23:31
oiaohm	That is one of the problems with sysvinit is at times it will kill NFS server before its killed the services using the NFS share.	Nov 07 23:31
MinceR	e.g. arch replaced their sysvinit/rc with cancerd because they couldn't write or steal workable rc scripts	Nov 07 23:31
schestowitz	later on we'll sort out alts to www	Nov 07 23:31
vZS1	That's a lot of writing	Nov 07 23:31
DaemonFC[m]	Eh, all this stuff that claims to be free of systemd is all fucked up in other ways.	Nov 07 23:31
schestowitz	no gym so..	Nov 07 23:31
DaemonFC[m]	And really crusty too.	Nov 07 23:31
vZS1	MinceR: I do prefer my good ol' FreeBSD rc scripts. They're dumb and simple.	Nov 07 23:31
MinceR	[citation needed]	Nov 07 23:31
MinceR	vZS1: with rc.subr?	Nov 07 23:32
schestowitz	what does guix do for init?	Nov 07 23:32
vZS1	They have a service manager of their own	Nov 07 23:32
oiaohm	FreeBSD kernel does not have some of the Linux kernel strangeness.	Nov 07 23:32
vZS1	Called Shepherd	Nov 07 23:32
MinceR	then again, i'm not sure when is freebsd planning to force launchd in place of their rc scripts	Nov 07 23:33
oiaohm	Like Linux it possible for processes to disconnect themselves from the parrent.	Nov 07 23:33
schestowitz	https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-us-2020-54786937	Nov 07 23:33
schestowitz	noted for headline	Nov 07 23:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bbc.co.uk \| US election 2020: Biden beats Trump to US presidency, BBC projects - BBC News		Nov 07 23:33
oiaohm	In ways that you cannot work out what the parrent was.	Nov 07 23:33
oiaohm	So cgroups in Linux is required to work around Linux kernel strangeness.	Nov 07 23:33
DaemonFC[m]	Mom's having me work on her credit.	Nov 07 23:34
DaemonFC[m]	I got a couple medical bills from collections to fall off and successfully got the credit bureaus to remove some of her bankruptcy accounts using early exclusions.	Nov 07 23:34
oiaohm	BSD kernel you can get away with lot simpler init solution that works properly because the strangeness the Linux kernel has is not BSD kernel feature.	Nov 07 23:35
schestowitz	[23:34] <DaemonFC[m]> Mom's having me work on her credit.	Nov 07 23:36
schestowitz	give her a cup	Nov 07 23:36
schestowitz	for the Trump MAGA tears	Nov 07 23:36
vZS1	MinceR: just the old `/etc/rc.d/` and `/usr/local/rc.d/`	Nov 07 23:36
DaemonFC[m]	Oh, she was pissed.	Nov 07 23:36
schestowitz	good	Nov 07 23:36
DaemonFC[m]	It was pretty funny really.	Nov 07 23:36
schestowitz	serves her right	Nov 07 23:36
schestowitz	she voted for a fraud	Nov 07 23:36
vZS1	I still think systemd offers good performance for everything it does	Nov 07 23:37
vZS1	I haven't ever run into a resource issue with it	Nov 07 23:37
CrystalMath	biden is the real fraud	Nov 07 23:37
MinceR	https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/performance-review	Nov 07 23:37
CrystalMath	if you don't believe me, just listen to him say it	Nov 07 23:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com \| Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Performance Review		Nov 07 23:37
MinceR	good performance for doing things that should not be done?	Nov 07 23:37
schestowitz	CrystalMath: the lesser one	Nov 07 23:38
CrystalMath	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0	Nov 07 23:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Joe Biden brags about having “the most extensive and inclusive VOTER FRAUD organization” in history. - YouTube		Nov 07 23:38
vZS1	:shrug: just another tool in the toolbox for me	Nov 07 23:38
schestowitz	maybe taken out of context or faked	Nov 07 23:38
oiaohm	CrystalMath: funny there was documented stuff about that with trump.	Nov 07 23:39
schestowitz	voter fraud prevention or whatnot	Nov 07 23:39
schestowitz	youtube isn't a source	Nov 07 23:39
CrystalMath	nope, i remember this from a long time ago	Nov 07 23:39
MinceR	"I have no idea what this is, looks GREAT on the pegboard though."	Nov 07 23:39
schestowitz	nor are "tweets"	Nov 07 23:39
CrystalMath	it was another one of his gaffes	Nov 07 23:39
DaemonFC[m]	Oh, they just got back to me.	Nov 07 23:39
CrystalMath	he did admit he's a gaffe machine	Nov 07 23:39
MinceR	and what is twitler, then?	Nov 07 23:39
CrystalMath	a tweet machine :P	Nov 07 23:39
schestowitz	twitlers	Nov 07 23:40
MinceR	or perhaps for twitler, a gaffe would be saying something that is sane?	Nov 07 23:40
schestowitz	trump no longer gets immunity from jack	Nov 07 23:40
schestowitz	bbc amplifies these ludicrous tweets	Nov 07 23:40
DaemonFC[m]	They agreed to remove the bankruptcy account regarding her dead ex-husband's mortgage too.	Nov 07 23:40
oiaohm	CrystalMath: and that is really badly done deep fake. Look at the lip movement that is trump himself.	Nov 07 23:40
schestowitz	frankly, I need to consider many news sites to be noise machines... bbc is one of them since early this year	Nov 07 23:40
schestowitz	it also amplified Farage a lot	Nov 07 23:40
schestowitz	oiaohm: hence youtube is not a source	Nov 07 23:41
vZS1	They just grab their headlines off Reddit half the time, it seems	Nov 07 23:41
CrystalMath	oiaohm: bullcrap, i know this from before	Nov 07 23:41
oiaohm	Really a decent done deepfake you don't another person face movements.	Nov 07 23:41
schestowitz	https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-04/youtube-accounts-livestream-fake-election-results-to-thousands	Nov 07 23:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-YouTube Accounts Livestream Fake Election Results to Thousands - Bloomberg		Nov 07 23:42
oiaohm	That are possible by musle structure.	Nov 07 23:42
CrystalMath	okay so you can't tell reality from a deepfake	Nov 07 23:42
oiaohm	Opps	Nov 07 23:42
oiaohm	Impossible by mussle structure.	Nov 07 23:42
MinceR	https://web.archive.org/web/20191220052459/https://www.thefarside.com/2019/12/17/3	Nov 07 23:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-web.archive.org \| The Far Side comic strip by Gary Larson from Tuesday, December 17, 2019 \| TheFarSide.com		Nov 07 23:42
schestowitz	my birthday	Nov 07 23:42
CrystalMath	oiaohm: this was mentioned in gaffe colections of biden, even some from cnn	Nov 07 23:43
CrystalMath	and the many others	Nov 07 23:43
CrystalMath	"poor kids are just as bright as white kids"	Nov 07 23:43
CrystalMath	they talked on CNN about that one	Nov 07 23:43
CrystalMath	discussed it	Nov 07 23:43
CrystalMath	"we choose truth over facts", a fairly tame one, but very funny	Nov 07 23:44
CrystalMath	"150 million people were killed as a result of gun crime"	Nov 07 23:44
MinceR	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmQZd56XMAAPUKg?format=jpg&name=orig	Nov 07 23:44
vZS1	Truth over facts	Nov 07 23:44
CrystalMath	that one too, ridiculous	Nov 07 23:44
oiaohm	CrystalMath: https://youtu.be/kSAo_1mJg0g?t=65 watch a real video of Biden . Both sides of his face move evenly when he talks always does.	Nov 07 23:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Joe Biden: The 60 Minutes 2020 Election Interview - YouTube		Nov 07 23:44
vZS1	I've seen it all now	Nov 07 23:44
kingoffrance	yes i believe you cant tell reality from high-quality deepfake, because otherwise us congress wouldve banned them. they did not. they said you have to label them. that tells me they couldnt find a way to tell the difference.	Nov 07 23:45
oiaohm	CrystalMath: trump left and right sides move differently.	Nov 07 23:45
kingoffrance	otherwise they surely wouldve banned them	Nov 07 23:45
CrystalMath	oiaohm: i am seriously not even going to consider for 1 nanosecond that this is a deepfake	Nov 07 23:45
MinceR	shallowfake	Nov 07 23:45
CrystalMath	this isn't fake at all	Nov 07 23:45
oiaohm	Also the texture of his face is missing.	Nov 07 23:45
oiaohm	That is another sideeffect of deepfake.	Nov 07 23:46
CrystalMath	wow okay from now on i will doubt every video you send to me, even if it features you	Nov 07 23:46
CrystalMath	you're being extremely ridiculous about this	Nov 07 23:46
oiaohm	LTT did a deepfake of their lead person and did a way better job.	Nov 07 23:46
CrystalMath	i didn't mean that he said this on purpose	Nov 07 23:47
CrystalMath	or that he really admitted it	Nov 07 23:47
CrystalMath	it was a gaffe	Nov 07 23:47
CrystalMath	he said other stuff before	Nov 07 23:47
CrystalMath	"i don't need your vote"	Nov 07 23:47
smnthermes	https://nitter.net/realDonaldTrump/status/1325099845045071873#m	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	i don't need your vote and...	Nov 07 23:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net \| Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump): "I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!" \| nitter		Nov 07 23:48
MinceR	https://i.imgur.com/3bGC6Gh.gif?noredirect	Nov 07 23:48
smnthermes	https://nitter.net/realDonaldTrump/status/1325194709443080192#m	Nov 07 23:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net \| Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump): "THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS. I WON THE ELECTION, GOT 71,000,000 LEGAL VOTES. BAD THINGS HAPPENED WHICH OUR OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SEE. NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WERE SENT TO PEOPLE WHO NEVER ASKED FOR THEM!" \| nitter		Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	that could be part of a longer sentence	Nov 07 23:48
smnthermes	Lmao	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	also, it's not illegal to say this to a person or group	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	LOL	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	i saw that on bbc	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	covid in the head	Nov 07 23:48
schestowitz	it's back in the body	Nov 07 23:48
MinceR	https://www.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1083554782923632640	Nov 07 23:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mobile.twitter.com \| Twitter		Nov 07 23:49
schestowitz	it's eating the golfball-sized brain	Nov 07 23:49
MinceR	https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/449525268529815552?lang=en	Nov 07 23:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@realDonaldTrump: Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!		Nov 07 23:49
schestowitz	I can't even read it	Nov 07 23:49
schestowitz	Donnie is STILL blocking me in Twitter	Nov 07 23:49
CrystalMath	the democrats are a disgrace to the united states	Nov 07 23:49
schestowitz	he was hurt by my replies...poor snowflake	Nov 07 23:49
MinceR	so are the "republicans"	Nov 07 23:49
CrystalMath	MinceR: i haven't seen them do this much voter fraud	Nov 07 23:50
schestowitz	citation needed	Nov 07 23:50
MinceR	yeah, because you can definitely see voter fraud	Nov 07 23:50
schestowitz	it's a xenophobic conspiracy theory	Nov 07 23:50
MinceR	apparently all the "conservatives" i know have superpowers	Nov 07 23:50
schestowitz	usually some fables about trucks of immigrants	Nov 07 23:50
MinceR	it's really unfair	Nov 07 23:50
schestowitz	so basically using racist trump voters as fodder for baseless claim	Nov 07 23:50
CrystalMath	schestowitz: no i'm talking about software being rigged, observers not allowed in	Nov 07 23:50
schestowitz	"do you hate hispanics?"	Nov 07 23:51
CrystalMath	there's nothing race-related going on	Nov 07 23:51
schestowitz	"boy, have we got a story for YOU!"	Nov 07 23:51
MinceR	that's interesting	Nov 07 23:51
MinceR	i've read about him going to court about the observers	Nov 07 23:51
CrystalMath	it's white morons using force to make sure biden wins even though nobody sane would vote for that moron	Nov 07 23:51
MinceR	and having to admit that "republican" observers were indeed allowed in	Nov 07 23:51
CrystalMath	were they?	Nov 07 23:51
CrystalMath	they should testify	Nov 07 23:51
schestowitz	armed republicans were allowed in	Nov 07 23:51
schestowitz	so-called 'Feds'	Nov 07 23:51
MinceR	https://imgur.com/gallery/qUFYsuZ	Nov 07 23:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump is having a rough go of it in court - Album on Imgur		Nov 07 23:51
schestowitz	and Orange One still lost	Nov 07 23:52
CrystalMath	i don't know about that	Nov 07 23:52
MinceR	of course you don't	Nov 07 23:52
CrystalMath	i think there was a lot of rigging, andthere's evidence about rigging	Nov 07 23:52
CrystalMath	*and there's	Nov 07 23:52
MinceR	can't let such things into the bubble	Nov 07 23:53
MinceR	it would cause even more cognitive dissonance	Nov 07 23:53
CrystalMath	and mail-in ballots coming after 8 PM and other horrors	Nov 07 23:53
schestowitz	horrors like qanon?	Nov 07 23:53
MinceR	yeah, it's pretty horrible how he had the USPS sabotaged specifically to mess with the election	Nov 07 23:53
CrystalMath	nobody cares about qanon	Nov 07 23:53
schestowitz	were these sent by pedophiles?	Nov 07 23:53
schestowitz	satanic pedophiles with "her emails"?	Nov 07 23:53
schestowitz	USPS tried to sabotaged things	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	it did	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	to an extent	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	but not enough	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	iirc, DaemonFC[m] tried to get his ballot	Nov 07 23:54
DaemonFC[m]	DeJoy is about to lose his job.	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	he had to cancel it because deJoy's mafia would not send it	Nov 07 23:54
DaemonFC[m]	Presumably some of those high speed mail sorters will be re-assembled.	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	eventually voter by other means	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	[23:54] <DaemonFC[m]> DeJoy is about to lose his job.	Nov 07 23:54
CrystalMath	really?	Nov 07 23:54
schestowitz	he gave millions to his 'former' private company	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	he needs to be prosecuted	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	for robbing USPS	Nov 07 23:55
CrystalMath	did you manage to vote?	Nov 07 23:55
DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, it took 16 days to get it to me and the courthouse is right across the street from the post office.	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	typical Trumpian crime of theft	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	I can find the link	Nov 07 23:55
DaemonFC[m]	By the time they did, I had already voided out the mail ballot and voted in person because I thought it was lost.	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	16 days	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	oh wow	Nov 07 23:55
schestowitz	and no lockdowns	Nov 07 23:55
CrystalMath	DaemonFC[m]: okay, good that you voted at least	Nov 07 23:55
CrystalMath	even if it was for biden :)	Nov 07 23:55
DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, not only in the same city, but on the same street.	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	maybe it takes one day to read each line on the envelope	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	and then one day for each mile traveled	Nov 07 23:56
DaemonFC[m]	Yes, I absolutely will vote.	Nov 07 23:56
DaemonFC[m]	And I also voted for a new prosecutor and coroner to finish off the Republican officials that are elected by the entire county.	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	good for Mandy also	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	less terrorisation	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	but the trump voters will lurk	Nov 07 23:56
DaemonFC[m]	The coroner already lost, but there's 114,000 more ballots to be counted.	Nov 07 23:56
schestowitz	more vengeful then ever	Nov 07 23:57
schestowitz	over their so-called "white genocide"	Nov 07 23:57
DaemonFC[m]	They're breaking two to one for the prosecutor candidate that I voted for.	Nov 07 23:57
DaemonFC[m]	And he's only down 4,000 before the rest get totaled in.	Nov 07 23:57
schestowitz	like all those "white native americans", 90% of whom killed by colonists	Nov 07 23:57
vZS1	We're all real Americans!	Nov 07 23:57
DaemonFC[m]	So there will be no countywide elected Republicans when the voting totals are in for Lake County, Illinois.	Nov 07 23:57
vZS1	What natives?	Nov 07 23:57
CrystalMath	hey, look, who knows, maybe even after the fraudulent votes are removed, recounted, or even repeated, maybe Biden will be found to have won fair and square, we don't know	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	The Republican sheriff lost in 2018 by 136 votes.	Nov 07 23:58
vZS1	Indigenous people aren't real	Nov 07 23:58
vZS1	They're a fairy tail	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	The Republican coroner lost this one by at least 900 votes.	Nov 07 23:58
oiaohm	CrystalMath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S92Ax9xuk7E even fakes fairly well done well there are alignment errors. The video you had if you look closely top of month was also moving impossible to physical nose. Poorly done deepfakes are quite simple to spot once you look around the mouth for impossible. They are like poorly done fake speedruns they are clear as day they are fake yet people will go around claiming they are real.	Nov 07 23:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Joe Biden Deepfake - YouTube		Nov 07 23:58
MinceR	lol	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	These are some close calls.	Nov 07 23:58
schestowitz	vZS1: mexico used to be a lot bigger	Nov 07 23:58
schestowitz	under trump even spaniards and italians are "lesser people"	Nov 07 23:58
schestowitz	not "white"	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	Like, a bunch of Democrats are winning, but by hundreds or dozens of votes in a county of over 650,000 people.	Nov 07 23:58
schestowitz	not "pure"	Nov 07 23:58
schestowitz	and they are treated accordingly, the catholics also	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	But slowly but surely, the Republican Party is disappearing from Lake County.	Nov 07 23:58
DaemonFC[m]	And I wanted to be part of the boot that kicked them out.	Nov 07 23:59
schestowitz	it's a tied system , like third reich and their labels (slavs, poles)	Nov 07 23:59
vZS1	So how do you level up to the next tier?	Nov 07 23:59
DaemonFC[m]	About all they have left after this election will be less than a third of the county board seats, and the Sheriff, Prosecutor, Coroner, Clerk of the Court, and County Clerk will all be Democrats.	Nov 07 23:59

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