●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, January 08, 2021 ●● ● Jan 08 [00:01] schestowitz https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19821701 [00:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Corrupt media now spreads #golang and #gnu #linux FUD in conjunction. It seems to have originated from a site whose mod/editor was arrested for raping kids while working for Microsoft (Peter Bright). [00:01] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2019/06/07/microsoft-peter-is-a-pedophile/ [00:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Peter is a Pedophile, Arrested Without Bail | Techrights [00:01] schestowitz convicted [00:01] schestowitz and arrested for a long time [00:01] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/08/16/microsoft-peter-convicted/ [00:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Peter Convicted for Pedophilia (and Still Defending Pedophilia) | Techrights [00:01] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:02] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2019/07/30/microsoft-peter-lives-on/ [00:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Even After Microsoft Lost Its PR Asset at Ars Technica (Arrested for Sexually Abusing Kids) Ars Technica Persists With Microsoft Advocacy (in News Form) | Techrights [00:03] vZS1 I've been seeing this since the middle of 2020 [00:03] schestowitz https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19821717 [00:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Still waiting for so-called 'social justice warriors' to call for shutdown of #arstechnica and its parent company that also operates #reddit (a hornet's nest for pedophiles) http://techrights.org/2019/07/30/microsoft-peter-lives-on/ [00:03] vZS1 But the frequency and volume is increasing [00:04] vZS1 Tiktok is also a hornet's nest for pedos [00:05] vZS1 Significant chunk of videos on TikTok is sexualised minors [00:08] schestowitz just in: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/07/encrypted-client-hello-the-future-of-esni-in-firefox/ [00:08] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.mozilla.org | Encrypted Client Hello: the future of ESNI in Firefox - Mozilla Security Blog [00:09] schestowitz " were eager for users to realize the privacy benefits of this feature." [00:09] schestowitz Whose privacy? [00:09] schestowitz "In keeping with our mission of protecting your privacy online, Mozilla is actively working with Cloudflare and others on standardizing the Encrypted Client Hello specification at the IETF. Firefox 85 replaces ESNI with ECH draft-08, and another update to draft-09 (which is targeted for wider interoperability testing and deployment) is forthcoming." [00:09] schestowitz LOL! [00:09] schestowitz ClownFlare [00:11] XRevan86 ECH is a good thing though. [00:11] schestowitz Mozilla and privacy are opposites as of recent years http://techrights.org/2020/06/25/mozilla-comcast/ [00:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mozilla Shames Itself and Harms Its Reputation by Stating That Comcast Has Taken Major Steps to Protect Customer Privacy | Techrights [00:11] XRevan86 ECH is actually good for privacy. [00:12] schestowitz look who mozilla outsources to [00:12] schestowitz comcast, clownflare [00:12] schestowitz it's potentially good [00:12] schestowitz like signing bootloaders and stuff [00:12] schestowitz in practice, however, it is outsourced to the very worst actors out there [00:12] XRevan86 It's a way to encrypt the domain name of a connecting host with TLS. [00:12] schestowitz it's like saying e2ee is good [00:13] schestowitz and then giving your keys to fb [00:13] schestowitz or disk encryption is good [00:13] schestowitz but Microsoft gets your private key for bitlocker and has a back door at OS level [00:13] XRevan86 schestowitz: Give me a scenario where ECH is taking something away. [00:13] schestowitz my ISP has my Net/browsing history [00:14] schestowitz with Mozilla I might even give that to another country [00:14] XRevan86 And that's a good thing? [00:14] schestowitz which is run by a nazi [00:14] XRevan86 schestowitz: I think you're confusing ECH with DoH. [00:14] schestowitz no, two different things [00:14] schestowitz whrre mozilla collabs with clowns [00:14] XRevan86 ECH is a TLS extension. [00:15] schestowitz Mozilla is spying [00:15] XRevan86 an encrypted bundle at the point of an early handshake [00:15] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2019/11/03/the-privacy-scam/ [00:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Facebook and Other Surveillance Capitalists Wont Save Mozilla From Google Dependence | Techrights [00:15] schestowitz Mozilla is dead [00:15] schestowitz stick a fork on it [00:15] schestowitz there are already some forks [00:15] XRevan86 to allow not giving away some ClientHello information to the MitM [00:15] schestowitz I hope the good ones do reasonably well [00:15] XRevan86 like ISPs or government spying tools [00:16] MinceR (cat) https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/18/0d072b38378ec088.jpg [00:17] XRevan86 schestowitz: What you're referring to here is literally the opposite of that. [00:17] XRevan86 ECH is something that takes away snooping / targeted blocking powers from MitMs. [00:18] XRevan86 I don't know why Cloudflare is invested in this as the only thing they're getting out of this is a global cloudfront block from Roskomnadzor. [00:19] XRevan86 because when they can't do a targeted block, they'll just block the whole thing [00:24] schestowitz that's a political thing [00:24] schestowitz it gives the US more power [00:24] schestowitz to intercept and interject things [00:24] schestowitz CF should be banned mentally at least [00:24] XRevan86 ECH? No, it doesn't. [00:24] schestowitz CF is an extension of social control mechanisms [00:25] schestowitz not free speech [00:25] schestowitz they already shut down some users [00:31] cybrNaut- there's a good shit-list of CloudFlare's history of wrongdoing here: https://codeberg.org/swiso/website/issues/141 [00:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-#141 - Remove Liberapay and Open Collective - website - Codeberg.org [00:33] cybrNaut- when CF touts crypto, it's normally crypto that terminates at CF, because CF expects everyone to trust them and CF wants to profits from all that data [00:36] cybrNaut- looks like ECH is somehow needed for DNS-over-HTTPS, and that's something CF pushes. So that explains why CF wants a piece of the ECH action [00:37] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/720533.jpg [00:37] XRevan86 cybrNaut-: Well, if DNS is encrypted, then having SNI just expose the domain name anyway is something that mocks the whole idea. [00:38] cybrNaut- CF has managed to coerce mobile phone users to route all their traffic through CF, even when the destination site is not a CF site (by promising them better performance), and their DNS services are connected to that [00:38] XRevan86 But technically these are separate concerns. ● Jan 08 [01:00] schestowitz MinceR: I saw some of these before, iirc [01:00] schestowitz XRevan86: CF as a whole is a concern [01:00] schestowitz in all context [01:01] schestowitz or contexts [01:01] schestowitz for the same reason apple and microsoft are [01:01] schestowitz and we need to strive to put CF out of 'business' [01:01] schestowitz to undermine their bad functions [01:01] schestowitz nothing else can stop their abuse [01:02] vZS1 CF want to be acquired by someone [01:02] vZS1 They're operating at a loss [01:03] vZS1 Their whole model is to keep scaling as long as people buy shares [01:03] vZS1 It's a very popular tech share [01:03] vZS1 About x8 of the IPO price rn [01:04] vZS1 But it's a bubble [01:04] vZS1 This will not last [01:05] vZS1 It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as well [01:06] vZS1 You can see the balance sheets. They still haven't turned a profit [01:09] vZS1 But the share price keeps climbing. [01:10] vZS1 People use CF as a CDN as well. Huge clients like Steam (Valve corporation) [01:11] vZS1 Steam relies heavily on CF for its CDN [01:11] vZS1 I poked around a bit [01:13] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:27] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [01:45] MinceR https://hugelol.com/lol/720449 [01:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-hugelol.com | An erection, but fancier ● Jan 08 [02:00] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [02:32] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [02:34] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:39] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/720098.png [02:49] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:50] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [02:54] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [02:54] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [03:18] *oarion7 (~anonymous@unaffiliated/oarion7) has joined #techrights [03:29] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [03:46] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:47] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [03:54] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:56] psydroid https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-ISA-Extensions/Why-is-Intel-allowing-this/td-p/1085045 [03:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-community.intel.com | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel Community ● Jan 08 [04:05] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [04:06] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:06] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [04:15] MinceR should have thought about that before handing money to the redmond mafia [04:17] MinceR lol @ proposing crapOS as a "solution" [04:18] MinceR i wonder what that dumbass will say when crApple stops supporting his intel-based PC because they're all about ARM [04:20] psydroid these people really like becoming victims of their own short-sighted decisions [04:20] MinceR or they're too stupid to learn from their own mistakes, regardless of how many times they get burned [04:30] CrystalMath psydroid: who? 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[04:41] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [04:58] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [05:26] *mcole (~sdfsidjf@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) has joined #techrights [05:32] *kupi has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [05:40] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Call-out culture is toxic, disgusting, and vile!) ● Jan 08 [06:03] *abarr (~aplsm@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) has left #techrights [06:05] *abarr (~aplsm@KD113148020047.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) has joined #techrights [06:16] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:42] schestowitz [03:56] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- community.intel.com | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel Community [06:42] schestowitz LOL Intel Community [06:43] schestowitz how can one join? [06:43] schestowitz what Intel Community benefits? [06:46] schestowitz [01:05] It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as well [06:46] schestowitz github [06:47] schestowitz vZS1: [06:47] schestowitz https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1003590417848455168 [06:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan https://t.co/RYfRCMBtob [06:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan https://t.co/RYfRCMBtob [06:48] schestowitz Blenders daddy Ton Roosendaal (@tonroosendaal) wrote this when Microsoft announced the takeover of GitHub: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists who want it back with huge profits. And whatever Microsoft pays for it, they will want it back too. Who pays in the end? The users. FYI: Blender has its code on http://git.blender.org and developer services on [06:48] schestowitz http://developer.blender.org we already host our own services since 2002. About users paying: I dont mean the freemium model. I believe that in due time @github services slowly degrade to losing control and ownership of your work. [06:48] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.blender.org [06:48] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developer.blender.org | Home [06:48] schestowitz via http://techrights.org/2020/08/23/blender-payments-from-microsoft-and-unity/ [06:48] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Hand Inside the Blender: Microsoft Money for Blenders Development Fund is Not a Cookie Jar Donation But Another Power Move | Techrights ● Jan 08 [07:04] *xvx has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [07:24] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [07:30] *birkoff has quit (Quit: Goodbye) [07:30] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [07:35] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [07:35] Techrights-sec http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-070121.html#tJan%2007%2022:44:41 [07:35] Techrights-sec NFS mount or external USB drive? [07:35] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Thursday, January 07, 2021 [07:36] schestowitz yes, I would do that at a later point, I can plug in, e.g., USB [07:43] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjyrzvwkmwjgpozs) has joined #techrights [07:43] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [07:43] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [07:43] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [07:43] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjyrzvwkmwjgpozs) has joined #techrights [07:43] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [07:47] schestowitz vZS1: also for you [07:47] schestowitz https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/filelink-large-attachments [07:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-support.mozilla.org | Filelink for Large Attachments | Thunderbird Help [07:47] schestowitz thunberbird has just recommended that I use this [07:47] schestowitz for very personal docs I send [07:47] schestowitz 22mb [07:48] schestowitz "The instructions below show how to configure and use Filelink with the Box online storage provider. We have an agreement with them to integrate their services into Thunderbird as well. (We used to have an agreement with Hightail, formerly YouSendIt). However, the community has been active in adding other providers through the use of add-ons with FileRun, hubiC, Mega, ownCloud-based services, Pydio (formerly AjaXplorer), Synnefo, and [07:48] schestowitz ~okeanos currently having add-ons." [07:48] schestowitz they want me to send files to nsa prism!! [07:48] schestowitz not good! [07:49] schestowitz no encryption [07:57] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjjdjzbpjuawklyu) has joined #techrights [07:57] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [07:57] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [07:57] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [07:57] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjjdjzbpjuawklyu) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [08:07] *search_social has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [08:11] *search_social (~search_so@99-112-18-250.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights [08:13] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2021/01/07/inteleaks-interlude/ [08:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Why We Do InteLeaks (and a Call For Further Input/Contributions) | Techrights [08:13] schestowitz will do next part today [08:13] schestowitz connection still slow here [08:13] schestowitz very, very slow. Downstream also. [08:13] schestowitz BT is not coping [08:24] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [08:30] *notanamber (~luca@host-79-6-210-200.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #techrights [08:32] *acer-box____ (~acer-box@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [08:33] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [08:38] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [08:43] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [09:08] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [09:15] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [09:31] Techrights-sec https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pence-remove/vice-president-pence-opposes-using-25th-amendment-to-remove-trump-business-insider-ny-times-idUSKBN29C36W [09:31] Techrights-sec Co-conspirators blocking removal [09:31] Techrights-sec ] [09:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Vice President Pence opposes using 25th amendment to remove Trump: Business Insider, NY Times | Reuters [09:40] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [09:40] *asusbox (~rianne@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [09:43] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [09:43] *asusbox2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [09:49] Techrights-sec https://www.newsweek.com/what-25th-amendment-calls-trump-removal-1559608 [09:49] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.newsweek.com | What Is the 25th Amendment, Who Is Calling for It? Donald Trump Removal Urged After Capitol Chaos [09:54] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) ● Jan 08 [10:03] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [10:07] vZS1 The filesharing problem has effectively been solved by FTP, BitTorrent, and IPFS. All these services are a bunch of data mining ploys. [10:08] vZS1 I don't know if you remember Firefox Send but that got wrapped up by Mozilla really quick [10:31] vZS1 Everyone should have an SBC at home [10:31] vZS1 You can just share stuff privately over SSH, if you don't want P2P. [10:32] vZS1 They're affordable and you actually own the damn device [10:39] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [10:52] *abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [10:52] *abarr (aplsm@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kzimmermann) has joined #techrights [10:58] *abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [10:59] *abarr (aplsm@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kzimmermann) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [11:03] *vZS1_2 (~vZS1_2@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [11:05] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [12:13] Ariadne https://nitter.net/MarkRenny1/status/1346405467166273537 [12:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net | Mark Renny (@MarkRenny1): "I predict it will be like this:" | nitter [12:18] XRevan86 Ariadne: Rather stupid, innit? [12:18] schestowitz neee neee neee [12:18] *XRevan86 loved it. [12:19] XRevan86 https://nitter.net/eoinburgin/status/1346946053082378245 (cast scientes) [12:19] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net | Eoin. (@eoinburgin): "This guy really just typed 'Georgia flag' into Amazon and clicked on the top result" | nitter [12:21] CrystalMath LOL [12:21] CrystalMath maybe he's georgian though? :P [12:22] CrystalMath they're saying the democrats who win in GA are communists.... [12:22] XRevan86 CrystalMath: That would be unlikely. [12:22] CrystalMath you know, that isn't impossible [12:22] CrystalMath after all, Stalin was from Georgia to [12:22] CrystalMath *too [12:24] schestowitz Georgia is from Stalin [12:24] schestowitz and in Soviet Russia [12:25] CrystalMath i was making a joke :) [12:25] CrystalMath another Georgia the country / GA USA pun [12:25] XRevan86 Georgia was part of the Russian Empire. Technically not of "Soviet Russia". [12:25] XRevan86 unless that equals to USSR fully [12:28] schestowitz x https://in.reuters.com/article/us-britain-assange-factbox-idUSKBN29900B [12:28] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | Reuters [12:28] schestowitz # more revisionism [12:31] CrystalMath Trump can still pardon him [12:32] vZS1_2 schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story. [12:32] CrystalMath https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partne [12:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partne/ ) [12:32] CrystalMath https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partner/ [12:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump pardons Blackwater war criminals but ignores Julian Assange, who exposed U.S. war crimes | Salon.com [12:32] CrystalMath sad [12:33] vZS1_2 schestowitz: I've also pulled the latest binary release of GNU IceCat. It's working pretty well. The controls are very convenient (mostly in GUI form). You should check it out. [12:35] vZS1_2 You can turn JS on/off in the GUI and it's based on wildcards so it's pretty easy to understand what's going on. [12:36] vZS1_2 There's also a very neat third-party request blocker which is a great way to see exactly what else is being pinged when you load a page [12:36] vZS1_2 They've implemented this as an addon to keep things modular [12:36] vZS1_2 Overall, very impressed. [12:38] vZS1_2 I've tried logging in to some services which require a "trusted" browser and IceCat manages to sneak through. [12:39] schestowitz vZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko? [12:40] schestowitz vZS1_2: re Assange, we did some articles about him [12:40] schestowitz I know the real timeline very well, I was like friends with him [12:40] schestowitz (not spoken for years, for obvious reasons, except his mom) [12:40] schestowitz His mom likes and trusts me... since like a decade back [12:42] schestowitz vZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc. [12:43] vZS1_2 >schestowitz vZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko? [12:43] vZS1_2 Idk, tbh. [12:43] schestowitz I am doing a video about FSF atm [12:43] schestowitz one take, uploading now [12:43] schestowitz this can take 6 hours to finish uploading [12:43] schestowitz vZS1_2: I tried gnu icecat when it was new [12:43] schestowitz maybe 2007 [12:43] vZS1_2 My main issue is accessing some services which falkon and Konqueror can't. That's solved now. [12:43] schestowitz maybe even 2006 [12:44] schestowitz falkon can fake its identity [12:44] schestowitz to fool http header sniffers [12:44] Ariadne [05:31:36] Trump can still pardon him [12:44] Ariadne at this point anything trump does is going straight to /dev/null [12:45] Ariadne the military and everyone else is now listening to pence [12:46] mjg59 Pardons are a constitutional authority, unless his constitutional status has changed he still can [12:46] vZS1_2 Idk how well IceCat supports WebRTC stuff, but it seems to partially support some things. [12:47] XRevan86 CrystalMath: Another explanation is that this may be intentional, but that is also unlikely. [12:47] vZS1_2 >schestowitz vZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc. [12:47] vZS1_2 Sounds like a good idea. [12:48] vZS1_2 A quick image would help. [12:48] CrystalMath Ariadne: Trump is still president until January 20th [12:49] vZS1_2 All these "summary" timelines are embedding things that fit their agenda. And no links to official sources and judgements. [12:50] mjg59 CrystalMath: That's the default, not a guarantee [12:50] Ariadne CrystalMath: yes, and nobody is actually following his orders [12:50] Ariadne CrystalMath: he is president in name only at this point [12:50] vZS1_2 A "news-free" timeline from TR would do a lot of good. [12:50] CrystalMath well Trump is still president until he gets removed or january 20th [12:50] CrystalMath he can still pardon Assange faster than they vote to remove him :P [12:50] CrystalMath but he should have done so yesterday [12:50] Ariadne a pardon is just an executive order [12:51] mjg59 schestowitz: You can definitely spend time defending a rapist if you want [12:51] Ariadne they can ignore it [12:51] CrystalMath Ariadne: i don't think so [12:51] mjg59 Ariadne: Constitutionally, not really [12:51] CrystalMath i think executive orders by a legal president do matter [12:52] Ariadne mjg59: true [12:52] mjg59 You'd need the legislative branch to but into the idea [12:52] Ariadne we are in a pretty strange situation atm [12:52] schestowitz mjg59: piss off [12:52] CrystalMath Trump condemned the attack on congress and conceded [12:52] mjg59 Where by legislative I mean judicial, and by but I mean buy [12:52] CrystalMath so he is going away, that's for sure [12:52] Ariadne CrystalMath: the attack he caused [12:52] mjg59 schestowitz: strong counterargument [12:52] CrystalMath but before he goes, he could pardon Assange [12:52] schestowitz you make a false accusation [12:52] schestowitz against Julian [12:53] Ariadne if i were assange i would not want to be pardoned by trump :))) [12:53] schestowitz and indirectly against me [12:53] schestowitz you work for war criminals, mjg59 [12:53] schestowitz and then you call people who expose crimes "rapists" [12:53] vZS1_2 schestowitz: stop feeding the troll and let's focus on the real problem. [12:53] schestowitz and say the same about those who defend the exposers [12:53] schestowitz so yes, PISS OFF [12:53] mjg59 schestowitz: Dude's directly and credibly accused of raping someone [12:53] *schestowitz ignores Google troll [12:54] mjg59 You keep saying you ignore me, and then you write about me instead [12:54] Ariadne how about this [12:54] Ariadne we get schestowitz and mjg59 in the octogon [12:54] Ariadne UFC style [12:54] schestowitz he doesn't stand a chance [12:54] mjg59 Oh man I am physically feeble [12:54] schestowitz I'm not his weight divison [12:55] mjg59 But hey if I need to take a beating in order to call Assange a rapist I'm ok with that [12:55] vZS1_2 schestowitz: The Assange PDFs are pretty popular btw. I had a look at the IPFS logs and there were several thousand requests for it. [12:55] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Images/images3.htm [12:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Images: Bodyshots [12:55] CrystalMath mjg59: that's not what america's charging him for, though [12:55] mjg59 Yeah, the US case is bullshit and he should be free now [12:55] CrystalMath mjg59: Trump can't pardon him over the sweden thing [12:56] Ariadne yes, the US should pardon him and then he should go to sweden and resolve his affairs there [12:56] CrystalMath he can only do that regarding the bullcrap case in the US, yes [12:56] Ariadne but if i were him, i mean, bluntly a trump pardon is not a good look [12:56] schestowitz I will do a video about the Assange timeline [12:56] mjg59 Assange is a rapist who avoided being found guilty and as a result should not be subject to punishment by the state [12:56] schestowitz I know AP and CNN have timelines also [12:56] schestowitz highly misleading ones [12:56] vZS1_2 I've sent the logs back to /dev/null now though. I don't have enough disk on my node to keep that running for long. The DHT produces an immense amount of log data. [12:57] mjg59 There's zero reason to keep him in restricted custody [12:57] mjg59 Doesn't change the fact that he's a rapist ● Jan 08 [13:00] mjg59 Assange has been selectively prosecuted, subject to inhumane treatment and should be free now [13:00] mjg59 And also he's a rapist [13:00] mjg59 I've got no problem believing all these thigns at the same time [13:00] Ariadne basically that [13:01] mjg59 The strange thing is believing that because he's a political target he must be innocent of everything else [13:03] Ariadne at this point its all moot anyway [13:03] schestowitz [12:32] schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story. [13:03] schestowitz I have just reviewed the link above [13:03] Ariadne whatever happened happened a decade ago [13:03] schestowitz it's really blatantly wrong [13:03] schestowitz omits a ton of staff [13:03] schestowitz to focus on women [13:03] schestowitz and nothing about what wikileaks showed [13:03] schestowitz I will do a rebuttal in video in a moment [13:03] schestowitz I'm off work till Monday [13:03] vZS1_2 Which is why we need a TR piece to set it right [13:03] mjg59 When discussing whether or not he's a rapist, it makes sense to focus on the women he raped [13:04] mjg59 And not on the other things he did [13:04] schestowitz please ignore mjg59, he's an incendiary troll like Donald Trump [13:04] mjg59 If you want to say he's a rapist who also did good work, sure, that's fine [13:04] mjg59 I wouldn't disagree [13:04] mjg59 Collatoral Murder was important work [13:05] schestowitz vZS1_2: right [13:05] mjg59 I'm glad that was released [13:05] Ariadne in fairness, it's a little more gray than "he is a rapist" [13:05] schestowitz i know what to say [13:05] schestowitz mental notes [13:05] Ariadne in most jurisdictions what happened wouldn't be defined that way [13:05] Ariadne and sweden went through some gymnastics to make a very flimsy case [13:06] mjg59 Ariadne: Eh conditional consent is something that's understood in an increasing number of jurisdictions [13:06] Ariadne i would say he is a womanizer though, and i've seen that for myself [13:06] mjg59 Also depressingly transphobic, which I found surprising [13:06] Ariadne yes, that lead to some of his falling out with indymedia peopl [13:06] Ariadne e [13:07] CrystalMath i agree that Assange is transphobic, but that's not unfixable [13:07] CrystalMath i think he just doesn't understand it [13:07] Ariadne nor is the conditional consent violations he did [13:07] Ariadne he can and should still make things right with those women [13:08] Ariadne and if he did, that would likely be the end of it tbh [13:09] mjg59 I think any degree of acceptance of misbehaviour on his part would have made a lot of things go away [13:09] Ariadne but he used to go around wowing women with his computer skills, and took that up to 11 with wikileaks, trying to project a "sexy revolutionary" image [13:09] Ariadne his work is important, but he is a flawed person [13:10] mjg59 I'm not certain that the world is a better place as a result of Assange, but I wouldn't disagree with people who claim it [13:10] Ariadne and in "hacker" circles, the ability to say "wow, i did something fucked up" and learn from it is actually highly valued [13:10] Ariadne at least in the circles i participate in anyway [13:10] mjg59 But treating him as a hero who has done no wrong is massively inappropriate [13:10] Ariadne yeah, he's more of a zefram cochrane (sorry for the star trek reference, but it is an apt comparison) [13:10] mjg59 And any timeline of his behaviour needs to include him actually doing bad things [13:10] CrystalMath idk, it's easier to imagine Assange as a shining angel [13:11] CrystalMath all people are flawed [13:11] Ariadne easy, but not realistic [13:11] CrystalMath but few people do as much good as julian assange [13:11] Ariadne it is possible to do a lot of good, while also doing things that are not good [13:12] CrystalMath sure, but also note that lots of people do bad things all the time [13:12] mjg59 To be clear, Chelsea Manning is a friend [13:12] CrystalMath just not extraordinarily bad [13:12] mjg59 And I support what she did [13:13] Ariadne i don't support her use of emoji [13:13] CrystalMath Chelsea Manning is another shining angel [13:13] mjg59 Well sure we're not all millennials [13:13] Ariadne the difference is chelsea manning is actually an angel [13:13] Ariadne she is just a great person (who uses emoji excessively) [13:14] Ariadne assange is an egomanical asshole IRL [13:14] CrystalMath i'm sure she crossed the street on a red light at least once [13:14] CrystalMath but that doesn't change the fact that she's a great person [13:15] Ariadne (this doesn't mean that he deserves to be targeted by the US government for reporting on how fucked up the US government is) [13:16] CrystalMath i once crossed a highway, that's probably illegal [13:16] CrystalMath and dangerous as hell [13:16] Ariadne i have to cross a highway every day to check my mail [13:16] CrystalMath yeah but i mean [13:16] CrystalMath outside of town [13:16] Ariadne admittedly it is only a 2-lane highway [13:16] Ariadne i don't live in a town [13:17] CrystalMath and it had those protective barriers on the side [13:17] CrystalMath but short ones, that can be jumped [13:18] CrystalMath but ever since i was attacked by those stray dogs, i think twice before i decide to take walks far outside of town [13:19] Ariadne i live in the middle of nowhere, off Wyoming State Highway 130 [13:19] CrystalMath interesting [13:19] CrystalMath i'd like to live in the countryside, it's probably better [13:21] Ariadne considering i am dependent on Elon Musk for usable internet ... [13:21] Ariadne it has its pros and cons [13:22] Ariadne being able to go hiking in the wilderness by just going outside is pretty great tho [13:29] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [13:29] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [13:31] mjg59 schestowitz: https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/314747894601240576 seems like an accurate representation of your position here? [13:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: @mjg59 When someone is labelled rapist for merely not wearing a condom - or a condom breaking - how does that help rape victims? [13:34] mjg59 Given that, well, y'know, you said it [13:36] mjg59 schestowitz: If you want to say that someone who has sex with someone without a condom after saying that they'd wear a condom isn't a rapist then that's certainly a conversation that exists in the wider topic of what consent actually is [13:37] mjg59 schestowitz: But in Sweden it apparently does count as rape, so it arguably then turns into an argument about whether Swedish law is legitimate [13:38] Ariadne thats why i think it makes more sense to just discuss the womanizing problem in general [13:39] Ariadne there is also the issue of Sweden pursuing the charges for both women despite at least one of the women responding that they ultimately did not wish to pursue charges [13:40] mjg59 schestowitz: But being hostile to the suggestion that he's a rapist does not do a great job of showing empathy for his alleged victims [13:41] Ariadne i think the rape charges largely came about as a result of a phishing expedition [13:41] CrystalMath i still think that there's a possibility that it's a conspiracy [13:41] mjg59 Ariadne: Yeah I'm not a fan of state persecution in principle [13:42] mjg59 The entire carceral system is fucked up [13:42] Ariadne at least my understanding is that police interviewed the women about his activities with him, and then decided to slap him with rape charges, despite that not being requested by either woman [13:42] Ariadne my understanding could be wrong on that, but that's what i've gathered based on following the case [13:43] mjg59 So [13:44] mjg59 The vast majority of rape cases are never criminally prosecuted [13:44] mjg59 And even those that are are mostly not convicted [13:44] Ariadne yes [13:44] mjg59 Outside political motiviations, do I think Assange would have been prosecuted? No. [13:45] mjg59 Based on descriptions of his behaviour, do I think Assange is a rapist? Yes. [13:45] *smnthermes has quit (Quit: Gateway shutdown) [13:45] Ariadne that's fair [13:45] mjg59 But the moral here isn't that Assange is innocent, it's that rape isn't prosecuted as much as it should be [13:46] Ariadne well, it is a question really. at least one of the swedish cases i read into, the alleged victim did not feel she was raped, but that she was miffed about his lack of condom use when he said he was using one [13:48] mjg59 Studies of US college students on this sort of topic revealed that something like 10% of women thought they'd been raped, but if given a questionaire that described the legal standard then the answers turned out to be closer to 30% [13:48] Ariadne i guess in the strongest sense, that is still a rape (in the form of a consent violation), but not severe enough a case to make involving police desirable [13:49] mjg59 Ariadne: I think that's an entirely supportable position [13:49] Ariadne yes, that's an issue too. what the legal system defines as rape is not necessarily what most people think of as rape (a narrower subset) [13:53] Ariadne thats why i prefer to say 'womanizer', because its something i can back with direct experience and observation [13:54] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [13:54] Ariadne when people hear rapist, they assume things that did not happen in the Assange cases [13:54] Ariadne which is likely why schestowitz is defensive, he likely assumes the same implications [13:56] Ariadne if it were me (which it wouldn't be me, because (a) i know better and (b) Assange is a transphobe), i wouldn't consider that a rape, but i would be irritated. it would potentially be a relationship-ending event. [13:57] schestowitz Just finished the video [13:57] schestowitz almost 50 minutes long [13:58] Ariadne but i also know better than to talk to police about my sex life should they come to the door asking about my sex life with a wanted person [13:59] Ariadne then again, i live in the US, and many Europeans are quite naive about the State ● Jan 08 [14:01] mjg59 Ariadne: Yeah, the idea that rape is violent or involves a stranger is very embedded in social analysis [14:01] mjg59 But the reality is that most rapes aren't violent and involve someone known to the victim [14:02] Ariadne thats why i describe Assange's actions as womanizing :) [14:02] mjg59 So spending time defending people against credible accusations of rape tends to enforce the idea that the second category isn't actually rape [14:02] mjg59 Even if it's a violation of consent [14:03] Ariadne womanizing is understood by most people to be the second category, and it still caries social stigma [14:04] mjg59 So falling asleep with someone and then waking up to find them havng sex with you would, without additional contextual consent, not be ok [14:04] Ariadne well, that's rape, but that's not what happened with assange [14:05] mjg59 Yeah, but then we end up talking about what consent is [14:05] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [14:05] mjg59 And people can definitely end up on different sides of that line [14:06] Ariadne for some people, that is actually a fetish [14:07] Ariadne (waking up to sex, that is) [14:07] mjg59 But going flat out with the assertion that Assange's behaviour couldn't have been rape is past that line [14:08] Ariadne that's not *my* position :P [14:08] mjg59 It depends on what was negotiated between them [14:08] mjg59 Ariadne: Oh gosh no sorry I don't want to imply that [14:08] Ariadne my position is that assange did fucked up things, but those fucked up things weren't severe enough to warrant involvement of the state [14:09] mjg59 schestowitz: Anyway ^ is a nuanced conversation and you should take that into account when talking about Assange [14:10] Ariadne (this is different than ioerror, who has violently raped people) [14:10] mjg59 Yup [14:11] Techrights-sec https://www.vox.com/2021/1/7/22219192/trump-republicans-removal-office-hogan-kinzinger-scott [14:11] Techrights-sec https://jacobinmag.com/2021/01/capitol-building-storming-far-right-election/ [14:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Larry Hogan, Adam Kinzinger have called for Trumps removal - Vox [14:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-jacobinmag.com | The Insurrection Was Predictable [14:11] mjg59 Although I don't want to push into that /too/ hard - one of Jake's victims I've spoken to has definitely categorised Assange in the same space [14:11] mjg59 And I think people could definitely draw a distinction if they wanted [14:12] mjg59 But given a spectrum, people will draw deliniations in different places [14:12] Ariadne assange has somewhat of a similar reputation, but i will say that ioerror took things to a larger extreme [14:13] Ariadne i wouldn't find myself asleep in the same room as either of them [14:13] Ariadne no way [14:14] Ariadne assange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do so [14:14] schestowitz Ariadne: you have met neither in person [14:14] schestowitz you based it on things you read online [14:14] Ariadne no i base it on years of working in the same communities [14:14] schestowitz you met neither [14:14] mjg59 schestowitz: I'm basing my opinions on people I trust who have met both [14:14] schestowitz [14:14] assange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do so [14:15] schestowitz Corprorate Media talking point [14:15] mjg59 haha god you are such a piece of shit [14:15] Ariadne it may be, but its also true [14:15] schestowitz literally repeating US indictment [14:15] Ariadne he literally set up chelsea for failure [14:15] schestowitz Chlesea refutes you on this! [14:15] schestowitz She repeatedly said Julian did NOT encourage or pressure her to leak more [14:16] schestowitz no, he did not [14:16] schestowitz Chelsea did [14:16] schestowitz by speaking to @6 [14:16] schestowitz who is now dead BTW [14:16] schestowitz confessing to a fraud [14:16] schestowitz who likely worked as undercover mole [14:16] schestowitz and then Kevin Poulson 'reporting' on it [14:16] mjg59 Also, notable that you turn up now rather than during the conversation about how you're defending a rapist [14:17] Ariadne i mean, i literally do work in the same spaces as they do [14:17] mjg59 But you'd rather turn up to defend that rapist's behaviour in another space [14:17] schestowitz but you base your views on people whom you never met [14:17] Ariadne and, actually, i have been to noisebridge and have talked to ioerror [14:17] schestowitz while weaponised media is directed at both [14:17] mjg59 Yeah, I've met Jake [14:17] schestowitz inc. Debian issuing a lie about ioerror [14:17] mjg59 schestowitz: Which lie? [14:17] schestowitz the lie if refuted by leaked emails [14:18] schestowitz *is [14:18] schestowitz Ariadne: when you talked to him did he do or say something perverse? [14:18] schestowitz I spoke to him too [14:18] schestowitz didn't sense anything odd [14:18] schestowitz he linked to techrights numerous times [14:19] mjg59 I'm literally engaged to someone that Jake raped [14:19] mjg59 Please do not give me this bullshit [14:19] Ariadne and to be clear, ioerror did important work too [14:19] mjg59 He also raped an ex of mine [14:20] mjg59 schestowitz: Have you met or spoken to his victims? [14:20] Ariadne but yes, i know people who decided to sleep in the same bed and had a bad time [14:20] mjg59 schestowitz: Are you in a position to discount them? [14:21] schestowitz Ariadne: why share a bed? [14:21] schestowitz not enough beds? [14:21] schestowitz poverty? [14:21] mjg59 Hahahah oh god you're awful [14:21] Ariadne not engaged to any of them, but "don't share a bed with ioerror" is not exactly a secret in the cypherpunk community [14:22] schestowitz who shares a bed? [14:22] schestowitz maybe it's a cultural differences thing [14:22] mjg59 schestowitz: Sharing a bed isn't constnt to sex [14:22] schestowitz you don't just share a bed with a "mate" [14:22] mjg59 You fucking piece of shit [14:22] schestowitz even in hotels you can choose a two-bed setep [14:22] schestowitz they have a special name for that [14:22] mjg59 Rape apologist [14:23] CrystalMath in all honesty, i think friends can share a bed and not have sex [14:23] Ariadne ^ [14:23] CrystalMath even if the friends have genders such that fits their sexual orientation [14:23] schestowitz When i was in washington I was in the same room with a colleague, but there were two separate beds [14:23] Ariadne yes, that's ideal [14:23] Ariadne but sometimes it doesn't work out that way [14:23] Ariadne and you have to come up with plan B [14:23] CrystalMath definitely, although it might not save you from snoring, still :P [14:24] Ariadne which involves sharing a bed [14:24] Ariadne hotels for example have more single-bed rooms than double-bed rooms [14:24] mjg59 I have successfully slept in the same bed as someone without having sex with them [14:24] Ariadne me too [14:24] schestowitz The only person of the same gender I shared a bed with was my dad... when I was a little kid and had had a bad dream [14:24] mjg59 It's not hard! [14:24] mjg59 You just don't have sex with them! [14:24] schestowitz take 'twin' room [14:24] schestowitz problems would be fewer [14:25] mjg59 Under normal (non-COVID) circumstances I meet many people a day who I don't have sex with! [14:25] schestowitz btw, jesus shared a bed with man [14:25] schestowitz but don't tell churchgoers [14:25] mjg59 What does gender have to do with this? [14:25] CrystalMath i wouldn't really want to share a bed someone, not with my tendency to cuddle sheets while asleep [14:25] CrystalMath *with someone [14:25] Ariadne anyway schestowitz a lot of people working as FOSS developers are actually broke [14:26] schestowitz take twin setup [14:26] CrystalMath (i'm asexual and not interested in sex anyway) [14:26] Ariadne like, the ones writing software that actually matters [14:26] CrystalMath but still, i cuddle sheets while asleep :/ [14:26] Ariadne so, this happens a lot [14:26] schestowitz Ariadne: stay in hostels with bunk beds [14:26] schestowitz cheaper and not shared [14:26] Ariadne they do that too [14:26] schestowitz people don't just fall on you at night [14:26] mjg59 schestowitz: Stop apologising for rapists [14:26] Ariadne but, sometimes what happens is [14:26] mjg59 schestowitz: Stop implying that their victims are complicit [14:26] Ariadne "oh, i am coming to give a talk" [14:26] Ariadne "oh ok you can stay at my place" [14:26] mjg59 schestowitz: Sharing a bed with someone isn't consent [14:27] Ariadne i've literally shared beds with people who got raped by jake [14:27] CrystalMath what if Appelbaum has sexsomnia though? [14:27] Ariadne sometimes people get together [14:27] Ariadne and hack on stuff [14:27] Ariadne and then they get tired [14:28] mjg59 CrystalMath: That's a great reason for them to refuse to share a bed with someone [14:28] CrystalMath sexsomnia is a real disorder, and he would be totally unaware of it [14:28] CrystalMath what if he didn't know back then that he does it? [14:28] Ariadne well [14:28] mjg59 CrystalMath: He used that excuse more than once [14:28] Ariadne ok, i'll say this [14:28] schestowitz [14:27] and then they get tired [14:28] mjg59 CrystalMath: And using it more than once is an admission of being aware of it [14:28] Ariadne and it will probably annoy mjg59 a bit [14:28] CrystalMath really? [14:28] Ariadne but [14:29] CrystalMath i didn't know he talked about it at all [14:29] Ariadne that sphere of my world anyway, uses a lot of molly [14:29] schestowitz They can take turn, one uses the bed for half a day, then the other [14:29] Ariadne like literally mdma, techno and hacking out code [14:29] schestowitz I'd never sleep with someone in the same bed unless in a relatinoship [14:29] schestowitz beds are not too hard to find [14:29] mjg59 Ariadne: yeah, there's drugs in parts of the scene [14:30] mjg59 CrystalMath: I know more than one person he's used that excuse with [14:30] schestowitz [14:28] and it will probably annoy mjg59 a bit [14:30] schestowitz who is this mjg59? [14:30] Ariadne that said, even fucked up on molly you can still generally conduct yourself without raping someone [14:30] schestowitz Oh, maybe in my shitbucket [14:30] mjg59 Ariadne: Right? I've spent time with people on mdma who have somehow avoided having sex with me [14:31] Ariadne hell, mdma is how half of freenode's services implementation got coded [14:31] Ariadne ^_^ [14:31] mjg59 Anyway Roy is free to defend a rapist if he wants [14:31] CrystalMath everyone deserves a defense lawyer [14:32] mjg59 And people are also free to point out that Roy is defending a rapist [14:32] CrystalMath so i'm glad that Roy is asking some questions in Jacob's defense, i myself am not sure that Jake is guilty [14:32] Ariadne oh he's guilty [14:32] mjg59 And point out that he's got a pattern of defending rapists [14:32] CrystalMath i'm just glad i'm not a real judge, because this is a tough one, like most cases [14:33] CrystalMath but i would be really upset if nobody said anything in someone's defense [14:33] CrystalMath there's no cut and dry case [14:33] mjg59 I'm fine with a criminal defence! [14:33] CrystalMath many of the people that accused Jake were in fact in a relationship with him, for example (but not all as far as i know) [14:34] CrystalMath the court of public opinion is still a court that has consequences, and defense is needed there too [14:34] Ariadne yeah, that is not a relationship as you might think [14:34] Ariadne fwiw i don't think jake's intentions were necessarily malicious [14:35] Ariadne what i do think is that he has raped some people [14:35] CrystalMath idk, rape sounds like a very malicious act, usually very selfish, i don't believe in benevolent rape [14:35] mjg59 CrystalMath: Of the victims of Jake I know, one was in a relationship with him. He raped her anyway. [14:36] Ariadne i know of a few cases where it was polycule-related issues [14:36] Ariadne and i know of a few cases where everyone was fucked up on molly [14:36] Ariadne still rape though [14:37] CrystalMath but how can you be sure? [14:37] Ariadne some advice to prodigal hackers: keep your dick in your pants when the molly comes out [14:37] CrystalMath maybe drugs make people misremember things [14:37] mjg59 CrystalMath: If someone tells you to stop having sex with them, and you continue having sex with them, that's rape [14:37] Ariadne which is probably why you shouldn't do anything that could be misremembered [14:37] CrystalMath mjg59: indeed [14:37] CrystalMath Ariadne: then never do anything ever, because everything can be misremembered [14:38] Ariadne you know what i mean [14:38] CrystalMath yeah but that's too wide of a definition for guilt [14:38] mjg59 CrystalMath: And that's what's described in https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/ [14:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-hypatia.ca | He said, they said hypatia dot ca [14:39] CrystalMath if you just believe victims every time, you can put innocent people in a lot of trouble [14:40] CrystalMath so that's not the right way IMO [14:40] CrystalMath i believe in innocent until proven guilty, and "better let 999 criminals go free than hurt one innocent" [14:40] Ariadne you believe victims until you either prove or disprove their assertions [14:40] Ariadne believing victims does not mean you don't fact check them [14:40] CrystalMath but that would be an assumption of guilt on the part of the accused [14:41] Ariadne the "believing victims" issue is that victims go to police and police send the complaint to /dev/null [14:41] mjg59 CrystalMath: Ok so the Swedish government is innocent of improperly accusing Assange [14:41] Ariadne without even investigating [14:41] CrystalMath mjg59: yes, in a way, we have no proof of the conspiracy [14:41] CrystalMath we just have a hunch [14:41] Ariadne i should also say that particular scene [14:41] CrystalMath Ariadne: that's really crappy, but when we fix it, we should fix it to make it fair, not unfair in the other direction [14:41] Ariadne is well [14:42] Ariadne a lot of people are more than friends in that scene [14:42] Ariadne however, they do generally make their boundaries known [14:43] Ariadne like basically everything involving jake is a giant mess [14:43] Ariadne with that said [14:43] Ariadne if somebody says "stop" then you should stop [14:43] CrystalMath honestly, i know people who did not press charges on someone just because society is very harsh towards criminals [14:43] *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights [14:43] mjg59 CrystalMath: Yup, which is why many of Jake's victims haven't taken it to court [14:43] CrystalMath (but in all honesty... sweden is not) [14:44] Ariadne and Jake is hardly the only prson in that scene who is like that [14:44] mjg59 Anarchists tend to not be enthusiastic about weaponising the state against someone [14:44] Ariadne i can think of several others who would fall on my "never share a bed with" list from that scene [14:45] mjg59 schestowitz: Anyway I'm sure you'll read this when you process the logs, so just to emphasise you're ignoring multiple people telling you who the people you're defending really are [14:45] Ariadne but i've slept in the same bed with plenty of other FOSS people from that scene and nothing has ever happened [14:46] Ariadne also, when i was in SF bay doing things, i had a much different appearance [14:46] mjg59 schestowitz: And in the process you're blaming victims on the grounds that if they were innocent they'd have made sure there was an extra bed? [14:46] Ariadne so Jake not hitting on me means nothing [14:46] CrystalMath Ariadne: Jake is bisexual [14:46] Ariadne if I talked to Jake with my current looks, he would have hit on me [14:46] Ariadne CrystalMath: yes [14:47] Ariadne but, he has certain types [14:47] *mcole has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:47] mjg59 schestowitz: So anyway you are obviously free to present a timeline of Assange's behaviour that elides various details, but you are clearly aware that you are doing so with an agenda [14:48] Ariadne and at the time that i was in SF bay, i was very convinced that a UNIX beard was the path to career success [14:48] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [14:48] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [14:48] Ariadne (what was i thinking? i have no idea) [14:49] mjg59 Ariadne: tbf my job interviews with beards have been more successful than the ones without [14:49] Ariadne i guess what i am trying to say is Jake liks twinks [14:49] Ariadne (: [14:49] CrystalMath oh i see [14:49] mjg59 (I shave afterwards) [14:50] mjg59 Yeah Jake may be bi but he skews femme in terms of partner [14:50] Ariadne . o O (i await schestowitz telling me i found out about Jake's twink preference in corporate media) [14:51] Ariadne from 2008 to 2011 i was pretty much not-femme [14:53] CrystalMath i had short hair until 2015 [14:53] Ariadne i did not [14:53] CrystalMath though it was still sort of short until 2017 [14:54] CrystalMath but, there's one constant, i always have bangs [14:54] CrystalMath they're my signature, in a way [14:54] Ariadne mjg59: well, the beard was successful in that regard considering i didn't starve to death or die of dissentery out there :P [14:56] mjg59 @zoobab [14:56] mjg59 ? [14:57] mjg59 Hmm new laptop's middle mouse button does not seem perfect [14:58] *rianne (~rianne@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Jan 08 [15:01] Ariadne tbh i kind of miss things a decade ago [15:02] Ariadne hacking on code then being in a giant cuddle pile of cuddles was pretty great tbh [15:03] mjg59 Ariadne: If you were in the bay area scene around then, do you know Andy Isaacson? [15:04] *tdemin has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [15:04] Ariadne can't say i do [15:05] mjg59 Ah, guess I met him in 2010, so may be a bit after that [15:06] Ariadne though my particular hack on things plus cuddle pile of cuddles experience was outside the bay [15:06] mjg59 Fair [15:06] Ariadne that was back and forth between boston and cologne [15:07] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights [15:08] Ariadne also in fairness, i don't think anyone wanted to crash jake's career or anything like that [15:08] Ariadne i think they just you know [15:08] Ariadne wanted him to stop being obtuse [15:09] Ariadne the website was meant to be an intervention [15:10] Ariadne the idea being "gosh, there's all these people saying i've done fucked up things to them, maybe i should fix that" [15:10] Ariadne well [15:11] Ariadne i should clarify that [15:11] Ariadne the person who contacted Tor HR obviously wanted something to happen there [15:11] mjg59 Yeah there's a universe where Jake took responsibility for his actions and engaged in community-level reparations [15:11] mjg59 He, uh, chose otherwise [15:11] CrystalMath then what was up with that ridiculous story that was later retracted by its author? [15:12] CrystalMath if it's meant to be an intervention, why was there a false story there? [15:12] CrystalMath oh wait a minute i think Ariadne explained that [15:12] CrystalMath last time we had this discussion [15:12] Ariadne some stories on there were intentionally fabricated in order to provide cover for everyone involved including jake, yes [15:13] CrystalMath right [15:13] mjg59 schestowitz: Re: http://techrights.org/2021/01/07/democracy-and-tyrants/ - https://fsfe.org/news/2017/news-20170425-01.en.html clearly shows Pocock being elected to the Fellowship GA seat [15:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Technology, Citizenship, Democracy and Tyrants | Techrights [15:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fsfe.org | And the winner of the election for FSFE's Fellowship GA seat is ... - FSFE [15:13] CrystalMath Ariadne: well, your version of the events seems to check out [15:13] CrystalMath it all fits [15:14] mjg59 schestowitz: The claim that Florian Snow was appointed despite the vote is clearly false - there's an 8 month space between the results being published and the mail Pocock cites [15:14] Ariadne anyway the, for lack of better description, PLUR scene in FOSS is kinda dying out [15:15] CrystalMath PLUR? [15:15] mjg59 schestowitz: You should engage in some degree of fact checking of stories you publish [15:15] Ariadne CrystalMath: the people who do molly and hack on shit [15:15] CrystalMath Ariadne: ah, yeah, like the 90s hacker culture died [15:15] schestowitz what is molly short for? [15:15] CrystalMath MDMA [15:15] schestowitz molestation? [15:15] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [15:15] CrystalMath no [15:15] Ariadne MDMA yes [15:15] CrystalMath it's methylenedioxymethamphetamine [15:16] schestowitz what's that? [15:16] schestowitz ah, ok [15:16] CrystalMath a molecule [15:16] schestowitz some full name of rhe drug [15:16] mjg59 Haha you fucking idiot [15:16] Ariadne a molecule which makes most people extremely happy [15:16] mjg59 How are you so completely unaware of everything [15:16] schestowitz I did not see the words molly and MSMA before [15:16] schestowitz methylenedioxymethamphetamine - yes [15:17] mjg59 ... [15:17] schestowitz but not the first two [15:17] schestowitz I never did drugs [15:17] Ariadne bruh [15:17] schestowitz nor will I [15:17] schestowitz alcohol yes. but not much... [15:17] mjg59 Dude I've never done molly but [15:17] MinceR https://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Coke-With-Molly.jpg [15:17] Ariadne how do you think the whole GNU project got going [15:17] mjg59 (As previously mentioned I am extremely feeble) [15:17] schestowitz anyway, not on topic [15:17] schestowitz I'd rather talk about tech tbh [15:17] schestowitz the channel is called techrights [15:18] mjg59 schestowitz: Except you keep ignoring my contributions [15:18] CrystalMath MinceR: coke with molly? is that a picture of some girl named Molly drinking Coca Cola? :P [15:18] MinceR this is the first time i see MDMA referred to as a performance-enhancing drug, though :> [15:18] MinceR CrystalMath: of course, what else could it be? :> [15:18] schestowitz performance has many facets [15:18] Ariadne well i hate to inform you but most of the free software you use today came out of a scene of hippies who also wrote code [15:18] schestowitz maybe it's better when you would otherwise perform homicide [15:19] Ariadne RMS being a hippie who also writes code [15:19] schestowitz or suicide [15:19] MinceR afaik MDMA is not the only drug used by hippies, though [15:19] mjg59 Luv 2 straight edge freedom [15:19] Ariadne RMS literally folkdances, you know [15:19] Ariadne like, my grandparents know him from folkdancing, it is pretty wild [15:19] MinceR :) [15:20] Ariadne MinceR: indeed not [15:20] mjg59 RMS once trolled ESR by convincing him that there was going to be an orgy in his hotel room [15:20] mjg59 And ESR just showed up in a bathrobe [15:20] MinceR lol [15:20] CrystalMath lol [15:20] mjg59 There's no puritantical aspect to this community [15:21] mjg59 Never has been [15:21] Ariadne yeah well, nobody wants to fuck ESR [15:21] mjg59 Well you say that [15:21] mjg59 And I'd love to believe it [15:21] mjg59 But evidence suggests it's not entirely true [15:21] schestowitz why are we talking about sex here [15:22] schestowitz [12:28] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | Reuters [15:22] schestowitz I pasted this link [15:22] schestowitz sent from a reader [15:22] schestowitz and the sex-minded maniac from Google warped the topic [15:22] Ariadne sex, drugs and software freedom [15:22] schestowitz someone has nothing but sex in the head [15:22] mjg59 Dude I didn't bring up sex [15:22] mjg59 But free software involves a bunch of fucking [15:23] mjg59 (consensually) [15:23] schestowitz maybe I should report to Google [15:23] Ariadne schestowitz: we were discussing the background that lead up to ioerror's (and to a lesser extent, Assange's) accusations of whatever you wanna call it [15:23] schestowitz they have issues with perverts [15:23] schestowitz they hire some [15:23] mjg59 schestowitz: I mean go for it [15:23] Ariadne mjg59 seems straighter edge than other googlers i know [15:23] Ariadne not that i know mjg59 mind you [15:24] mjg59 schestowitz: Do feel free to report me to Sundar [15:24] schestowitz https://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied-on-chats [15:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gawker.com | GCreep: Google Engineer Stalked Teens, Spied on Chats (Updated) [15:24] schestowitz stick to topic [15:25] mjg59 Yeah I'm part of the team that prevents that from happening again [15:25] schestowitz this is not sexrights [15:25] schestowitz Look at channel topic [15:25] schestowitz stick to topic [15:25] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [15:25] mjg59 Free software is tightly associated with sexual liberation [15:25] *psydroid sets the topic of the channel to sexrights, the place where techrights go to die [15:25] CrystalMath should i register #sexrights? [15:25] mjg59 Both historically and philisophically [15:25] mjg59 Both are bound to personal autonomy [15:26] schestowitz CrystalMath: feel free [15:26] schestowitz I would not dive into it [15:26] mjg59 You can't build a world where one exists without the other [15:26] Ariadne don't tell him about ESR's uhhh, private channel here on freenode [15:26] schestowitz sex has nothing to do with tech [15:26] schestowitz gender hasn't , either [15:26] Ariadne it has a lot to do honestly [15:26] mjg59 Sex has a *lot* to do with tech [15:26] schestowitz tech has much to do with human rights [15:26] schestowitz sex is a reproductive function [15:26] mjg59 Oh man you're missing out [15:26] schestowitz even animals without tech have sex [15:26] Ariadne a lot of the software you use today was coded during cuddlefuck parties at FOSDEM [15:26] schestowitz leave sex to sex channels [15:26] Ariadne i guarantee you [15:27] mjg59 Do you realise you can have sex without reproducing [15:27] schestowitz and stop wasting our time [15:27] schestowitz I brought up Assanghe [15:27] CrystalMath i'm asexual actually, but i find the idea of #sexrights kinda funny [15:27] schestowitz because of journalism and war crimes [15:27] schestowitz also online publication [15:27] schestowitz people who make it about sex should crawl back up the cave they came from [15:27] mjg59 Yeah we should just ignore the rape stuff [15:28] *schestowitz back to posting and writing [15:28] mjg59 There's something actually wrong with you [15:30] CrystalMath well, maybe there is merit to the idea of focusing only on one thing, to not get spread too thin [15:30] schestowitz I am writing about FSF at the moment [15:30] schestowitz and the donation drive [15:30] schestowitz i need to focus on one thing at a time [15:30] schestowitz I think we attarcted some sick people here [15:30] schestowitz whose mind is all fixed on sexual fantasies [15:31] schestowitz affixed [15:31] schestowitz they can go to pervy places [15:31] schestowitz I want to focus on tech [15:31] schestowitz I never even talk about sex online [15:31] CrystalMath #sexrights is open, i set the topic to "TechRights Gone Wild" :P [15:31] *psydroid should seize the grape.com domain and redirect it to rape.google.com [15:31] Ariadne man wait until he finds out that like half of foss developers are also furries [15:31] CrystalMath why is that so funny to me [15:32] schestowitz go for it if you want, CrystalMath, maybe Ivanka and dad will join [15:32] schestowitz "the right to touch my daughter" [15:32] CrystalMath sorry schestowitz, i didn't mean to make fun of techrights [15:32] CrystalMath i just thought that what you said was kinda funny [15:32] schestowitz psydroid: Google employs nany perverts [15:33] schestowitz I can think, OFFHAND, of a dozen incidents [15:33] schestowitz I gave only one [15:33] CrystalMath #sexrights is gone [15:33] schestowitz So it makes Google to hire more perverts [15:33] schestowitz Microsoft and Gates have a similar issue [15:33] CrystalMath Ariadne: what's a furry? [15:33] schestowitz a pervert is unable to see another pervert as a pervert [15:34] schestowitz like a corrupt mafioso, e.g. trump, cannot see what blackwater mercenaries did wrong [15:34] schestowitz they just butchered a bunch of kids, big f'ing deal... [15:34] MinceR lol @ sexrights [15:34] mjg59 CrystalMath: People who identify with anthrophormised animals [15:35] mjg59 CrystalMath: Not inherently sexual, but frequently [15:35] CrystalMath mjg59: i know, i was feigning innocence [15:35] CrystalMath i know a few furries even, on IRC [15:35] mjg59 CrystalMath: Well gosh it's hard to know, apparently we're not supposed to know about sex in here [15:35] psydroid schestowitz: I think a series of articles on Google's internal practices would be great in the more distant future, although a lot has become clear in other articles posted so far [15:36] schestowitz a person who does Free software to get laid will view everyone around as a bunch of sex partyists [15:36] schestowitz I feel bad for such people [15:36] mjg59 Welp better write off rms [15:36] schestowitz RMS started GNU not because of sex [15:36] schestowitz he likes hacking code [15:37] *mjg59 says nothing [15:38] schestowitz I always loved computers, so I was happy to be able to program things to run on them and see what happens, or change codes, or read manuals. IIRC, Torvalds told a similar story in his Bloomber interview [15:38] schestowitz again, this seems to be a common thing [15:38] schestowitz people learn to love code [15:38] schestowitz there will always be outliers [15:38] vZS1_2 schestowitz: you need to filter out the junk. Trolls are diverting your time away from TR into nonsense. [15:38] Ariadne schestowitz: i do free software to produce free software, but free software has (and continues to) gotten me laid [15:38] mjg59 But yeah I can understand why someone who has a fundamentally fucked up sense of what sexual relationships actually are would have trouble figuring out why Jake or Assange had behaved poorly [15:38] schestowitz like people who enter politics for impunity while doing some horrible things [15:38] schestowitz I reckon Trump is an example of it [15:39] schestowitz he was likely broke (hidden debt) when running for Pres. in 2015/2016 and weaponised racism to rescue himself [15:39] schestowitz not unprecedented a move in other countries [15:40] schestowitz vZS1_2: yes, I wasted time on this [15:40] schestowitz maybe that is the very GOAL [15:40] schestowitz I could write tons more [15:40] Ariadne torvalds, yes [15:40] Ariadne RMS/GNU, no [15:40] Ariadne well [15:40] schestowitz anyone wanna help me proofread? [15:40] schestowitz I'm trying to get people to join the FSF [15:41] MinceR what for? [15:41] schestowitz GNU funding [15:41] Ariadne what is even the point [15:41] schestowitz their infrastructure\ [15:41] Ariadne half the GNU projects are using github anymore [15:41] mjg59 Linus is in a happy monogamous relationship with three kids [15:41] MinceR what's the point of funding GNU? [15:41] MinceR it's pretty much dead already [15:41] Ariadne yeah fund systemd instead [15:42] MinceR what for? [15:42] MinceR ibm is funding it already [15:42] mjg59 RMS fucks about a great deal more than Linux does [15:42] mjg59 Er ha oops Linus [15:42] MinceR microshit and ibm took over the whole thing, let them fund it [15:42] schestowitz FSF? [15:42] schestowitz Not FSF [15:42] schestowitz OSI, yes [15:43] schestowitz I mention why OSI is money down the drain [15:43] schestowitz LF is still open for donations LOL [15:43] schestowitz what a scam [15:43] schestowitz [15:41] half the GNU projects are using github anymore [15:43] schestowitz No, we counted [15:43] schestowitz less than a dozen [15:43] schestowitz out of hundeds [15:44] schestowitz and we want to keep that number small [15:44] MinceR afaik the FSF was taken over by crybullies [15:44] schestowitz FSF is working on gitlab-based alternative (to GH and Savannah) [15:44] schestowitz MinceR: not anymore [15:44] schestowitz I go through the list [15:44] schestowitz they're ousted mostly [15:44] MinceR so, is RMS back yet? [15:44] schestowitz sort of [15:44] schestowitz gradually [15:44] schestowitz wanna read? [15:44] schestowitz I need to fish typos out [15:44] Ariadne schestowitz: coreutils is using it [15:44] MinceR yes [15:45] schestowitz I lost 2 hours due this this whole sexrighrs BS [15:45] schestowitz and rianne was reading it more than I did [15:45] schestowitz she didn't put a block/ignore on he creep [15:45] schestowitz *the [15:45] MinceR lol [15:47] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2021/01/08/supporting-the-fsf/ [15:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Support GNU by Supporting the FSF in 2021 (10 Days Left for the Latest Campaign to Join) | Techrights [15:47] schestowitz I am checking it no [15:47] schestowitz the video is still uploading [15:47] schestowitz 10mb-20mb per hour yay [15:47] schestowitz bloody telecom [15:47] Ariadne hey i'm just being honest [15:48] Ariadne hackathons create relationships all the time, that's part of how you get close-knit communities [15:49] CrystalMath Ariadne: right but maybe you're kinda exaggerating it... i mean many projects never had such things [15:49] Ariadne i'm really not [15:49] CrystalMath there are projects where nearly everyone involved is a straight white male [15:50] Ariadne yeah those projects suck [15:50] mjg59 And there are projects that aren't [15:50] Ariadne and die out [15:50] Ariadne or become the next systemd component [15:50] mjg59 Anyone who believes there's no sex in free software is missing out [15:50] CrystalMath i'm not missing out, i don't want to have sex at all [15:51] Ariadne valid [15:51] mjg59 Yeah that was sloppily phrased on my part [15:51] mjg59 Apologies [15:52] mjg59 But at a fundamental level, the idea that there's no association between progessive approaches to "IP" and software and progressive approaches to other aspects of society is native [15:52] mjg59 s/native/naive/ [15:53] MinceR (cat) (audio:unimportant) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/18/1c1f343f4704f121.mp4 [15:55] psydroid schestowitz, "both of which were created" (add "were"), "introduced to programming" (instead of "programmer") [15:55] CrystalMath Ariadne: i think lots of great projects were written sexlessly, like linux i think, and FVWM [15:56] CrystalMath i can't really vouch for either, though [15:56] psydroid ah, I see you've already fixed the latter [15:57] Ariadne there's a lot of promiscuous kernel developers :P [15:57] Ariadne or at least were some time ago [15:57] schestowitz psydroid: thanks, fixed [15:57] Ariadne i don't really follow the kernel anymore [15:57] Ariadne its very big now [15:58] CrystalMath the free software i use the most is linux, ksh93, fvwm, urxvt, and emacs [15:58] schestowitz I find it super-ironic [15:58] CrystalMath and X.org [15:58] schestowitz for no reason I'm being smeared as sexual something [15:58] Ariadne but linux itself has largely been corporate [15:58] schestowitz by people who say FOSS is all about sex [15:58] Ariadne nobody said FOSS was all about sex [15:58] MinceR Linux was non-corporate back when it was good [15:59] Ariadne just that there is some intersectionality between non-corporate FOSS and sex [15:59] Ariadne that's real "hacker culture" [15:59] CrystalMath Ariadne: i think there could have been some sex involved in the creation of emacs [15:59] *abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [15:59] MinceR genetic programming! [15:59] CrystalMath Ariadne: but the rest? doubtful, urxvt is a single person project (Schmorp), fvwm people are super square and old, ksh93 was made by AT&T [15:59] Ariadne obviously corporate FOSS is a totally different thing ● Jan 08 [16:00] Ariadne Schmorp is a furry [16:01] Ariadne anyway this has been a fascinating conversation that started from the question of "why would two hackers share a bed" [16:02] CrystalMath heh [16:02] schestowitz [15:59] obviously corporate FOSS [16:02] schestowitz paradox [16:02] schestowitz corporations can use FS [16:02] CrystalMath sometimes they make it too [16:02] schestowitz but if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know... [16:03] Ariadne what i mean there is that corporate FS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing off [16:03] MinceR even RMS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing off [16:03] schestowitz that can lead to issues [16:03] MinceR sadly [16:03] schestowitz he does [16:03] schestowitz he is pressured [16:04] schestowitz to conform [16:04] MinceR he would have started a campaign against systemd if he did [16:04] Ariadne most likely he has never had to debug systemd and thus does not see the problm [16:04] schestowitz he knows those issues, MinceR [16:04] MinceR lol [16:04] schestowitz but red hat and ibm gave him money [16:05] schestowitz also a company that employs sexual predators [16:05] schestowitz FSF has not been funded by that sleaze for 5 years though [16:05] schestowitz FSFE still is [16:05] Ariadne anyway, last time i checked, RMS is still a barefoot, folkdancing, Pan-following person [16:05] Ariadne which is pretty cool [16:05] schestowitz almost 20% of its budget for a long time now [16:05] Ariadne mad respect honestly [16:05] Ariadne wish he had phrased his defense of minsky better [16:05] schestowitz RMS is acting all normal when I meet him [16:05] schestowitz coat, shoes, bag [16:06] schestowitz he uses backpack, very practical [16:06] schestowitz and uses UK rail to travel [16:06] Ariadne yeah i mean he does that too [16:06] schestowitz some people wear bathrobes at home [16:06] CrystalMath Ariadne: i miss the 90s hacker culture [16:06] schestowitz and suits to work [16:06] schestowitz RMS can change outfit [16:06] schestowitz in Latin America he'd speak Spanish [16:07] CrystalMath Ariadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s one [16:07] schestowitz anyway, enough about the person [16:07] Ariadne i'm sorry, do you think i am criticising RMS? [16:07] schestowitz [16:02] but if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know... [16:07] schestowitz the issue was, FSF [16:07] schestowitz and FS [16:07] schestowitz with corporatism [16:07] schestowitz and I think a members-funded FSF would be better off [16:07] schestowitz like the green party USA [16:07] schestowitz no need to be big [16:07] schestowitz just don't get corrupted [16:08] Ariadne ok, when FSF decides to stop taking corporate donations, i'll consider giving them money [16:08] schestowitz techrights is not big, but we never took any bribes [16:08] schestowitz Ariadne: yes, those "patrons" are a problem [16:08] schestowitz Google spies on those members to monetise them [16:08] schestowitz and then gives a share of that money to FSF, in exchange for silence [16:08] schestowitz so FSF rarely berates Google [16:08] schestowitz Google is just one example [16:09] Ariadne in the meantime, my $$$ can be used to produce better and more FOSS [16:09] schestowitz IBM/Red Hat and systemd is another [16:09] schestowitz they can lose 1-2 members of staff is Red Rat stops paying [16:09] Ariadne glibc is an engineering disaster at this point [16:09] schestowitz *if [16:09] Ariadne as is much of the rest of GNU [16:09] schestowitz Ariadne: yes, pay rent and buy food [16:09] schestowitz that's what I do [16:09] schestowitz I can write more code and words [16:09] Ariadne we didn't start alpine because we hate GNU, we started it because we needed something better [16:09] schestowitz we only donate to the blind and to animal trusts [16:10] schestowitz I bought 20 teats for orphaned elephants yesterday [16:10] schestowitz alpine is good [16:10] schestowitz apline has gnu too [16:10] schestowitz I use gnu tools in it [16:10] Ariadne yes, the good ones are available [16:10] schestowitz *alpine [16:11] schestowitz it's very solid an OS [16:11] schestowitz never seen it crash yet... 2+ years [16:11] schestowitz the DB container in it -- same. 100% uptime since creation last Easter [16:12] schestowitz at work we have an NHS client with lots of postgres and one machine with MS SQL [16:12] schestowitz and boy, I can tell some stories about that machine [16:12] schestowitz it's beyond tragic [16:12] schestowitz sometimes it crashes, sometimes it shuts itself down because of licence validation [16:12] schestowitz so the other 50+ machines cannot function (they all run debian/ubuntu) [16:13] schestowitz so there's really no sane argument for keeping MS SQL in there [16:13] schestowitz but you know Microsoft 'grayheads' [16:13] Ariadne well if they were actually using MS SQL features it would make sense [16:13] schestowitz I think they use some windows gui somewhere [16:14] schestowitz but all the heavy listing isn't done by that lousy machine, which runs some old version of WIndutendo [16:14] Ariadne [09:06:57] Ariadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s one [16:15] Ariadne i'm pretty much a product of the mid 2000s-2010s one [16:15] Ariadne MS SQL can do a lot [16:15] CrystalMath Ariadne: that was after the e-zines and phrack and the cool kids hacking the Gibson [16:15] Ariadne though PostgreSQL has caught up in a lot of areas [16:17] MinceR mace windutendo? [16:21] MinceR schestowitz: i haven't found any errors in the article [16:30] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:38] schestowitz thanks, MinceR [16:38] MinceR np [16:41] schestowitz assange video now 9% uploaded. Wow, blazing fast. maybe it'll be ready by midnight... [16:41] schestowitz no time left to do one about InteLeaks [16:41] schestowitz we need to do scheduling and time-sharing for uploads [16:42] schestowitz like in the days we bought quotas for trans-Atlantic traffic [16:42] schestowitz or got it free after midnight [16:42] schestowitz Brexit means Brexshit [16:53] vZS1_2 Looking forward to the Assange video ● Jan 08 [17:02] schestowitz BT could rush it through [17:02] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/2021/01/08/ [17:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts [17:03] schestowitz #BT is truly horrible; now our download speeds are seriously degraded as well. Hard to get work done! And we both work from home!! http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/01/06/coronavirus-bt/ [17:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Coronavirus May Have Caused a Nationwide or Regional Congestion Crisis for BT [17:03] schestowitz I think I will report #bt for its abuses over the weekend... complaint to #ofcom ... and it won't be pretty. BT has dug its own grave. Context: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/01/06/coronavirus-bt/ #btuk [17:03] schestowitz Latest update on awful, awful #bt After a bad week (upload speeds still appalling, now download speeds too) the manager was supposed to phone me, but did not! Liars. Trying to make a call with them? 20-30 minutes just to speak to an "adviser". They're being snobbish and unhelpful. [17:04] vZS1_2 Better off leaving BT, once your contract expires. [17:07] schestowitz the line us theirs [17:07] schestowitz openreach [17:08] schestowitz afaik, exchanges too are shared among ISPs [17:08] schestowitz so short of 4g modem/router, which is expensive (the people in Newcastle's chartered thing told me), might be last resort [17:09] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:19] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [17:24] *kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xikvdfvfkemgovqv) has joined #techrights [17:25] *vZS1_2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:53] schestowitz vZS1: it sped up all of a sudden, done now [17:53] schestowitz I'll do an Intel piece ● Jan 08 [18:47] schestowitz MinceR: psydroid will quote you soon [18:47] schestowitz a great deal [18:48] schestowitz in next Intel series part [18:48] MinceR :) [18:48] schestowitz core part: [18:48] schestowitz This seems to be the core: [18:48] schestowitz > The preferred method was markdown. There was flexibility for rst or [18:48] schestowitz > asciidocs as an alternate if needed. The guides were published in [18:48] schestowitz > the end as HTML. After the process was in place, several teams [18:48] schestowitz > (mostly low-technical or even close to what could be considered [18:48] schestowitz > non-technical) refused to conform to the process and requested, [18:48] schestowitz > first, to use Google Docs for a GNU Linux project - this request was [18:48] schestowitz > refused. A manager suggested reporting the non conformity to other [18:48] schestowitz > management. To my knowledge this was never pursued. Then, the one [18:48] schestowitz > non-conforming team requested a docx format be used with 0 versioning [18:48] schestowitz > and multiple versions being passed around with no confirmation as to [18:48] schestowitz > the "current" version. After insisting the git process be conformed [18:48] schestowitz > to, a resource reminded the group of a looming deadline at this [18:48] schestowitz > point, and forced an exception in this case. First, the content of [18:48] schestowitz > docs were staged in gitlab by a writing resource - in markdown. The [18:48] schestowitz > engineering team stated they did not know markdown. Those on the team [18:48] schestowitz > in another capacity - content strategy, still refused to edit in [18:48] schestowitz > gitlab passing multiple versions of MS Word docx format after Google [18:48] schestowitz > Docs was outright refused for this GNU Linux project. [18:48] schestowitz Anon: "However, I would recommend paraphrasing rather than quoting. No specific reasons, just that raw quotes of material of that provenance should be done sparingly." [18:57] psydroid these days Markdown and LaTeX are just as easy to handle using web tools as Google Docs and MS Word with vastly better results, so the problems with using freely available and generally user-friendly tools must be cultural [18:57] psydroid this reminds me of what is going on at the LF ● Jan 08 [19:00] cybrNaut- I know some aerospace engineers who "can't handle" LaTeX, so the project opted for genuine MS Word, which of course is a complete disaster when checking binary docs into Clearcase and then doing a diff for reviews. [19:01] MinceR lol [19:01] cybrNaut- I didn't accept the rationale that they can't handle it.. I think management just hates engineers to maintain docs that alienates managers [19:03] cybrNaut- low-tech managers like MS Word, and that preference gets imposed on engineers doing the real work. [19:05] cybrNaut- The project manager said "we don't use LaTeX b/c no one knows it". Then I went to a university and asked "why are these science students using Google Docs instead of LaTeX" The reply was: "Because LaTeX is not in industry" [19:05] cybrNaut- wtf [19:05] schestowitz Intel is being 'infested' or increasingly dominated by people who lack technical skills and have an affinity for Microsoft's proprietary software (even in divisions dedicated to GNU/Linux) [19:07] cybrNaut- so is it the psydroid project that is battling this? I didn't catch the context [19:07] schestowitz you will see [19:08] schestowitz I will quote you also [19:08] schestowitz what you said is relevant to it [19:10] schestowitz I will post a draft in a moment [19:11] schestowitz this way we can add more quotes and correct typos [19:11] schestowitz those are viewed a lot [19:11] schestowitz I think angry Intel workers like it [19:11] psydroid cybrNaut-: it is not my project, I am just giving my input in a place where I have something to contribute and also where I was/am directly and indirectly in contact with people who worked at or are currently working at Intel. To be honest it feels more like a curse than a blessing bo be surrounded by them in many places. [19:11] schestowitz Here http://techrights.org/2021/01/08/intel-drupal-and-microsoft/ [19:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | InteLeaks Part VIII: Microsoft and Its Facilitators Destroying Intel From the Inside | Techrights [19:11] psydroid to* [19:11] schestowitz draft, there will be typo [19:11] schestowitz *typos [19:12] schestowitz but I hope the flow is logical, sort of [19:20] cybrNaut- One reason managers cling to proprietary s/w: if the tool fails, they want accountability. Although I think proprietary is as without warranty as free software, managers think they are less exposed if they can blame software issues on another supplier. But I'm not sure why a commercial linux entity like Red Hat couldn't fill the scapegoat role just the same [19:22] schestowitz ok, post finalised [19:23] schestowitz unless you spot typos [19:23] psydroid "This is how you can quickly drive out any GNU/Linux talent youve managed to attract." <- This resonates strongly with me, as their HR people's attempts to reach out to potential candidates doesn't even seem genuine. They know they need those people with GNU/Linux skills, but don't even mention anything about the job out of a fear of never being able to attract them in the first place, if people knew what was going o [19:23] psydroid on the inside. [19:24] schestowitz that's why we do this series :-) [19:24] psydroid (maybe off the record, but ARM HR offered me a job for Linux/KVM work) [19:25] psydroid it's all about the intent, I think [19:26] schestowitz NVIdia [19:26] schestowitz watch out [19:26] schestowitz not British [19:27] schestowitz Not Japanese [19:27] schestowitz "fuck you, nvidia" [19:27] psydroid it was a few years ago before Nvidia came on the radar [19:28] schestowitz aha [19:28] schestowitz well, japan has issues [19:28] schestowitz softbank also [19:28] schestowitz bad investment [19:28] schestowitz many I can think of [19:28] schestowitz never mind the olympic mistake [19:28] schestowitz mario can wait [19:28] schestowitz and lugi [19:28] schestowitz luigi [19:29] psydroid lol [19:29] schestowitz whoa [19:29] schestowitz 1300+ covid deaths today in the uk [19:29] schestowitz well done, tories [19:29] schestowitz a-holes [19:29] psydroid I visited the olympic town near stratford once [19:29] psydroid completely abandoned [19:29] psydroid just like the one in barcelona [19:29] schestowitz 68k new cases [19:30] schestowitz psydroid: white elephants [19:30] schestowitz the rich don't care [19:30] schestowitz the taxpayers pay [19:30] schestowitz we foot the bill with national debts [19:30] schestowitz so they can mass-distract the masses with stupid festivals [19:30] schestowitz while they funnel money to their islands [19:30] schestowitz they keep football going now [19:31] schestowitz but nothing else [19:31] schestowitz no shops [19:31] schestowitz but football [19:31] schestowitz gotta keep the 'plebs' distracted by something [19:31] schestowitz and hopeful with vaccine promises [19:31] schestowitz from Pearly B [19:32] schestowitz in some parts near london 1 in 50 people tested positive [19:32] schestowitz not estimated by extrapolation but actually tested [19:32] schestowitz so it's getting hard to safely walk "out there" [19:32] schestowitz I left the home today for the first time in 19 days (new record) to get loads of food [19:33] schestowitz psydroid: thanks for the useful input re Intel, I've added that as a paragrap [19:33] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [19:37] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [19:48] DaemonFC[m] The party of "law and order" murdered a Capitol Police officer. [19:48] DaemonFC[m] Law enforcement is looking for the people responsible for beating and trampling officer Brian Sicknick to death. Trump loves those people and they are very special to him. [19:49] *xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.105) has joined #techrights [19:50] DaemonFC[m] The party of cop killers and neoconfederates on welfare. [19:50] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [19:53] cybrNaut- what were his injuries? were they head injuries? [19:54] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [19:54] cybrNaut- it's good to see some backlash. A lawyer who was in the mob was sacked by his employer, and a professor in the mob was forced to resign [19:56] cybrNaut- Josh Holly's publisher is now refusing to publish his book, and Shopify pulled the plug on 2 shops selling Trump swag/flags/etc [19:58] schestowitz too late [19:58] schestowitz too little, too late ● Jan 08 [20:04] DaemonFC[m] They nabbed that guy from Arkansas sitting at Pelosi's desk. He faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html [20:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Man seen in viral photograph at Nancy Pelosi's desk faces charges, officials say - CNNPolitics [20:04] DaemonFC[m] Keep the quarter. Call a lawyer. [20:05] DaemonFC[m] "The man photographed sitting at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk during Wednesday's riots in the US Capitol has been arrested and charged with three federal counts, including theft of public property, federal officials said Friday." [20:05] DaemonFC[m] He stole an envelope with a letter Pelosi was writing to another House member. [20:05] DaemonFC[m] That was another felony charge, apparently. [20:06] DaemonFC[m] He was waving it around in front of a CNN camera and bragging that he stole it. [20:07] DaemonFC[m] That will be evidence, along with the picture he took of himself with his feet propped up on her office desk, and posted to Facebook. [20:07] DaemonFC[m] Criminal mastermind. MinceR schestowitz [20:08] DaemonFC[m] Can you believe these people? No plan for what would happen after they did this. [20:08] DaemonFC[m] And some of them are even CEOs and shit. [20:08] cybrNaut- "including theft of public property" <= he said on camera that he left a quarter on Pelosi's desk to pay for the letterhead that he took. Will be interesting to see if that holds up [20:08] DaemonFC[m] That doesn't hold up because the owner of the property has to consent. [20:08] DaemonFC[m] And they also arrested that guy who stole a speaking podium from the Senate chamber. [20:09] CrystalMath i suppose it'll take a quarter off the fine he gets in addition to the sentence :P [20:09] CrystalMath that was pretty dumb indeed [20:09] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, if I was the judge I'd fine him $9,999.75 for the theft. That's $10,000 (minimum fine) minus the quarter. [20:10] MinceR DaemonFC[m]: lol [20:10] cybrNaut- i'm sure strictly speaking it wouldn't hold up, but if a jury thinks a sentence is overly harsh they can vote against the charge [20:10] DaemonFC[m] Give the news something funny to write about. [20:10] MinceR they must have believed they're above the law like their hero [20:11] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: This guy isn't worth costing us money to jail. I'd stick him with three $10,000 fines, a 10 year suspended prison sentence contingent on successfully completing ten years of house arrest with ankle monitoring, at his own expense. [20:11] cybrNaut- jury nullification is the mechanism, although most US courts neglect to inform jurors of the jury nullification option [20:12] DaemonFC[m] Oh, they won't go to a jury trial. [20:12] DaemonFC[m] They'll plea bargain, most of them. [20:13] DaemonFC[m] That's how 86% of cases end, and the 14% that go to trial, there's a 90% conviction rate. [20:13] DaemonFC[m] So, uhhh, good luck with that. [20:13] schestowitz 'bargain' [20:13] schestowitz what will be the charges against cops who allowed this invasion? [20:13] schestowitz oh, sorry [20:13] schestowitz police are above the law [20:14] DaemonFC[m] Some of them are being fired. [20:14] schestowitz "blue lives meeeetah" [20:14] CrystalMath the police got defunded :P [20:14] cybrNaut- iirc, Maryland passed a bill that informs jurors about the jury nullification option.. but I guess that doesn't help these guys [20:14] DaemonFC[m] The mob killed one officer, you know. [20:14] DaemonFC[m] Injured 57 of them too. [20:14] DaemonFC[m] That's what they get for treating them so softly. [20:14] DaemonFC[m] They deserve it after that. [20:14] MinceR https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/916/doctor-strange-benedict-cumberbatch.jpg [20:15] CrystalMath i wonder, who was BLM trying to defund earlier this year? [20:15] CrystalMath mops? [20:15] schestowitz what shambles [20:15] CrystalMath crops? [20:15] CrystalMath i can't quite put my finger on it [20:15] CrystalMath i'm not surprised the police did nothing [20:15] MinceR it will be interesting to see a new kind of jury trial where every member of the jury votes solely on the basis of which party they support [20:15] CrystalMath MinceR: welcome to 3rd world america [20:16] MinceR it's 1st world by definition :> [20:16] schestowitz thier own [20:16] schestowitz I am in favour of ranking nations by wealth gap [20:17] CrystalMath but i mean it's starting to get really crappy there [20:17] schestowitz a country where some people have a billion times more in the bank than those who do all the work for them rank last [20:17] MinceR :> [20:17] schestowitz over here brexit drobe away many people [20:17] schestowitz not EU folks [20:18] schestowitz Brits with talent [20:18] schestowitz and now COVID chops down or mows down many people [20:18] cybrNaut- schestowitz: those rankings exist. And as you'd expect, Denmark is near the top and the US is near the bottom next to Mexico and other 3rd worlds [20:18] schestowitz there will be many homes for sale if like half a million people perish in a couple of years [20:18] schestowitz so it's not great here either [20:18] schestowitz we lose people [20:18] schestowitz not the ones who are without "value to society" [20:19] schestowitz they go to greener pastures (not US!) [20:19] schestowitz why denmark? [20:19] schestowitz they rate high for scholarly things [20:19] schestowitz like publications/capita [20:20] cybrNaut- https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm [20:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-data.oecd.org | Inequality - Income inequality - OECD Data [20:20] schestowitz aha [20:20] cybrNaut- actually Denmark is 6th [20:22] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: Apparently I did order Mandy's birth certificate properly. I got two copies on the way via FedEx. [20:22] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [20:22] DaemonFC[m] So there's one problem down, I suppose. [20:22] cybrNaut- so if you're an unskilled laborer, good places to work are belgium or scandinavia, and lousy places to work are US or UK [20:22] DaemonFC[m] The federal agencies in the US seem to have a penchant for just grabbing originals and never giving them back. [20:23] DaemonFC[m] The certified copy we have is a little beat up, so if they want an original, that's the one USCIS is getting. [20:23] DaemonFC[m] He managed to send his passport through the washing machine when he lived with the wicked witch of Gurnee. [20:23] MinceR did you expect something better from a state? :> [20:23] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: Nope. [20:24] cybrNaut- DaemonFC[m]: you should be boycotting FedEx. FedEx is an NRA-supporting ALEC member (supports Trump's views on policy). FedEx also ships shark fins, slave dolphins, and hunting trophies [20:24] schestowitz hmmm... looks like covid deaths per capita in hungary is similar to what it is here [20:24] DaemonFC[m] I try not to have expectations when dealing with the government, except that it will be as horrible, combative, and difficult as possible. [20:24] schestowitz orban isn't handling it well, either [20:24] schestowitz MinceR: did the fascists impose lockdown? [20:24] MinceR hey, orban is doing everything he can [20:24] MinceR avoiding testing, not buying tests, lying about the numbers, talking shit [20:25] MinceR faking the numbers, presenting them in a useless way [20:25] DaemonFC[m] Congress is impeaching Trump again next week. [20:25] MinceR not doing contact tracking [20:25] MinceR "you can't stop the pandemic with masks!" [20:25] DaemonFC[m] They should just let loose on the articles and name everything he's done that should be considered criminal, at least the major stuff. [20:25] MinceR "you can't stop the pandemic with testing!" [20:25] MinceR "you can't stop the pandemic with contact tracing!" [20:25] DaemonFC[m] Criminal negligence during the coronavirus pandemic. [20:25] schestowitz lol [20:25] MinceR oh, and arresting people for saying negative things about him on dumbFuckBook [20:25] schestowitz herd immunity idiocy [20:26] MinceR schestowitz: we have the most idiotic lockdown ever [20:26] MinceR curfew between 20:00 and 5:00 unless you have a dog with you and within 500m of your home [20:26] schestowitz tbh, I have the 'privilege' of working from home even well before this... so I can self-isolate a lot. Many lost their jobs or work jobs that don't let them isolate properly [20:26] DaemonFC[m] 22,342,229 confirmed total cases in the US so far. [20:26] MinceR in bigger settlements you have to wear a mask on public grounds [20:26] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: like Mandy's job [20:26] DaemonFC[m] 376,447confirmed deaths [20:27] DaemonFC[m] They say your first million's the hardest. [20:27] schestowitz 400k by inauguration [20:27] MinceR because obviously SARS-CoV-2 only infects between 20:00 and 5:00 and is afraid of dogs, but only if the dog is within 500m of its home [20:27] schestowitz not likely, but not impossible [20:27] schestowitz if it surges fast [20:27] MinceR they apparently negotiated a ceasefire with SARS-CoV-2 for december 24 night, though [20:27] schestowitz excess deaths in US to reach a million by March, I read last year [20:28] schestowitz MinceR: yeah, nicely put [20:28] schestowitz with jokes and humour [20:28] schestowitz they limit opening times [20:28] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [20:28] MinceR yeah, they did that too [20:28] schestowitz that only increases how crowded places become [20:28] MinceR which is, of course, counterproductive [20:28] schestowitz I buy food at the very quiet hours [20:28] MinceR but hey, they're showing off how forceful they are [20:28] MinceR as fascists should [20:28] DaemonFC[m] https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/bidens-2000-stimulus-checks-opposed-manchin [20:28] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.foxbusiness.com | Biden's push for $2,000 stimulus checks opposed by Manchin: 'Absolutely not' | Fox Business [20:29] schestowitz amazon(r) is open 24/7 [20:29] DaemonFC[m] Well, some of the Republicans really wanted the $2,000 and just couldn't get it by Mitch McConnell. [20:29] schestowitz we need to limit the versatility of rivals of theirs [20:29] schestowitz because their rivals actually do pay tax [20:29] DaemonFC[m] So the main problem in the way of that will be gone soon. [20:29] MinceR the extra deaths per week (compared to the previous 5 years) were approximately twice as many as the COVID-19 deaths they officially reported [20:29] MinceR of course this could be because a lot of people who didn't have COVID-19 didn't get the treatment they needed [20:29] MinceR those people don't count anymore [20:30] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: Trump's Brownshirts are being identified and rounded up. [20:30] schestowitz MinceR: that's why I say count death certs [20:30] DaemonFC[m] He threw them under the bus saying they would be found and punished severely. [20:30] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [20:30] MinceR the nazis even had people kicked out of hospitals to free up beds in preparation for COVID-19 treatment [20:30] schestowitz and then measure excess deaths [20:30] DaemonFC[m] Meanwhile, he's talking to impeachment and criminal defense lawyers about his own conduct. [20:30] MinceR and then lied about this [20:30] schestowitz harder to game such numbers [20:30] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [20:31] DaemonFC[m] This is the first time since the Civil War that DC has had to request soldiers from state governments to protect it. [20:31] schestowitz https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/01/all-aboard-the-pequod/ [20:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-krebsonsecurity.com | All Aboard the Pequod! Krebs on Security [20:31] schestowitz "Like countless others, I frittered away the better part of Jan. 6 doomscrolling and watching television coverage of the horrifying events unfolding in our nations capital, where a mob of President Trump supporters and QAnon conspiracy theorists was incited to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol. For those trying to draw meaning from the experience, might I suggest consulting the literary classic Moby Dick, which simultaneously holds [20:31] schestowitz clues about QAnons origins and offers an apt allegory about a modern-day Captain Ahab and his ill-fated obsessions." [20:32] DaemonFC[m] And Mayor Bowser had to ask state governors because Trump wouldn't call up the DC National Guard. [20:32] DaemonFC[m] She got over 5,000 soldiers and several hundred state police officers from other states in, and only then did Trump call up the DC Guard. [20:33] DaemonFC[m] She's calling on the federal government to admit DC as a state and to give her control of their National Guard as soon as Biden gets in. [20:33] DaemonFC[m] Giving her control over the National Guard is much more likely than statehood. [20:33] DaemonFC[m] Statehood for DC should be a priority for the Democrats. The district has never voted for a Republican president or a Resident Commissioner in the House. [20:34] DaemonFC[m] If they became a state, they would have two additional electoral votes, three House members with full voting rights, and two Senators. [20:35] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [20:35] DaemonFC[m] It would not only make it much less likely to have a Republican majority in Congress, but two more electoral votes on the Democratic side couldn't hurt their odds of retaining the White House. [20:35] schestowitz when you have a military as nation [20:35] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [20:35] DaemonFC[m] But they've never moved on this before. [20:35] schestowitz and everything is funded through military [20:35] cybrNaut- there is a min population requirement to become a state [20:35] schestowitz even the tech giants [20:35] DaemonFC[m] Actually, there's not. [20:35] schestowitz with trillions from taxpayers (debt) taken each year [20:35] schestowitz was 1.1 trillion per year for the empire per year... as of 4 years ago [20:35] schestowitz maybe 1.3 by now [20:36] schestowitz the military is now directed inwards [20:36] schestowitz and it's just as ugly as the world foresaq [20:36] schestowitz *foresaw [20:36] cybrNaut- 4 "states" in the US are actually "commonwealths" b/c they don't reach the min population needed to be a state [20:36] DaemonFC[m] That's wrong. [20:36] schestowitz no, they are colonies [20:36] DaemonFC[m] They all have populations many times the size of the state of Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, or North Dakota. [20:37] schestowitz some lack voting rights [20:37] schestowitz or worse [20:37] DaemonFC[m] They style themselves as Commonwealth, but in regards to their relationship with the federal government, they're still states. [20:37] DaemonFC[m] Massachusetts has about the same population as Indiana. [20:38] DaemonFC[m] There's few requirements, other than political ones, to becoming a state. [20:38] cybrNaut- https://www.businessinsider.com/why-states-are-called-commonwealths-explainer-2019-1?IR=T#commonwealth-territories-2 [20:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businessinsider.com | Why only 4 US states are called 'Commonwealths': Explainer - Business Insider [20:38] DaemonFC[m] At various times, Congress has required territories to be split up to admit them as separate states. They required the Mormons to outlaw polygamy to admit Utah. [20:39] DaemonFC[m] There's really nothing special about the style of "Commonwealth". [20:39] DaemonFC[m] And it has nothing to do with population or whether they are a "state" or not in our federal system. [20:40] DaemonFC[m] Puerto Rico could legally be admitted as a state and decide for itself whether to refer to itself as state or commonwealth or attack helicopter. [20:40] MinceR i'm hoping for the latter [20:40] DaemonFC[m] It doesn't really mean much of anything, legally, whether a state calls itself a commonwealth. [20:40] DaemonFC[m] It is admitted as a state. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] Many people don't like the idea of DC being a state, and also don't like the idea of them having no self-governance at all. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] Which is where the amendment to give them some electoral votes, and the DC Home Rule law came from. [20:42] DaemonFC[m] But not giving them statehood is unfair. [20:42] DaemonFC[m] They have to come up with their own budget, from their own taxes. [20:42] DaemonFC[m] Congress has specifically stopped them from laying down fair share taxes on people who live outside the district but work there. [20:43] DaemonFC[m] When you live in a state and work in another state, the two states have an agreement on who gets the taxes. [20:43] cybrNaut- isn't there a loss of freedom in becoming a state? E.g. marijuana can be state regulated, but if the fed wants to regulate it they have to abuse the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution [20:44] DaemonFC[m] For example, when you live in Indiana, and work in Illinois, you file income taxes in Illinois and Indiana, but you pay Illinois, and then deduct your Illinois taxes from Indiana, which means you're paying Illinois, not Indiana. [20:44] DaemonFC[m] Actually no. A territory, or a federal enclave like DC, is ruled over directly by Congress and gets an Organic Act that delegates whatever Congress doesn't want to deal with. [20:45] DaemonFC[m] In the case of DC, they could only legalize marijuana in the district because the Home Rule Act gives them the authority to pass laws for the District, and Congress can only overrule those laws by either voting them down within 30 days, or passing a new federal law that voids it out. [20:45] DaemonFC[m] And they never did. [20:45] cybrNaut- some states have tax treaties, which simplifies it. E.g. there's a treaty between ohio and indiana so you only have to file in the state where you reside. [20:46] DaemonFC[m] Well, these aren't exactly treaties. [20:46] DaemonFC[m] They're called inter-state compacts, and they have to either be agreed to individually by Congress or Congress can preemptively give the states permission to come to any agreement they want about a certain issue. [20:47] DaemonFC[m] When you hear about representatives from a state government making a trade deal with China or something, there is no formal deal. It would be illegal without Congress authorizing it. [20:47] DaemonFC[m] But they can legally agree that if Indiana does this, then China will do that, but without a binding agreement in effect. [20:48] DaemonFC[m] As an informal agreement. [20:48] DaemonFC[m] Likewise, some countries won't extradite anyone who faces a death sentence. [20:48] cybrNaut- since drivers licenses are a state thing, each US state must separately get a driving reciprocity agreement with each country [20:48] DaemonFC[m] They can't negotiate with a state government in the US because that's illegal. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] But the state can agree with the federal government that the person will not face the death sentence, and then the federal government can make that agreement with the foreign governemnt. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] Not exactly. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] In the US, there's the driver's license compact. 47/50 states are part of the compact. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] The other 3 recognize out of state licenses as a matter of their own state law. [20:50] DaemonFC[m] But Canadian provinces are signed on to the license compact. [20:50] DaemonFC[m] Foreign government can give effect to US driver's licenses if they want to. [20:50] DaemonFC[m] They don't have to. [20:51] cybrNaut- In belgium they have a list of which kind of endorsement from each US state maps to what endorsement on the belgian license [20:52] cybrNaut- and iirc most states motorcycle licenses are not recognized in Belgium [20:52] DaemonFC[m] https://www.dmv.org/travel/driving-outside-the-united-states.php [20:52] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Driving Outside the U.S. | DMV.ORG [20:53] DaemonFC[m] "Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit [20:53] DaemonFC[m] under the United States." [20:53] DaemonFC[m] Nice. [20:54] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/trump-article-of-impeachment-draft/index.html [20:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Read: House Democrats' draft of a new article of impeachment against Trump - CNNPolitics [20:57] MinceR indeed [20:57] cybrNaut- seems like the riot is minor compared to collusion with russia to manipulate the 2016 election, and compared to the quid-pro-quo with Ukraine, yet the riot may actually be the only impeachment that has effect in the end [20:57] DaemonFC[m] Incitement of Insurrection [20:57] MinceR the "republican" party was on board with russian manipulation of the 2016 election [20:57] MinceR they do not agree with the current circus [20:57] DaemonFC[m] The others were political in nature and the Republican Party figured it would gain from it if he made corrupt deals with Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. [20:58] DaemonFC[m] So they let him go, [20:58] DaemonFC[m] This time, their fan club endangered them and sent them running for the fallout shelter under the building. [20:58] DaemonFC[m] They're pissed. [20:59] DaemonFC[m] They're also dealing with a president who is leaving office in 12 days anyway, who they now do not want to return. [20:59] DaemonFC[m] The game has changed. ● Jan 08 [21:00] cybrNaut- this will parallel OJ Simpson. Got off easy the 1st time for something severe, and will get an ass-woopin' later for something relatively mild [21:01] cybrNaut- which of course leaves a fucked up precedence [21:02] DaemonFC[m] I doubt Pelosi would be going full steam ahead with a new impeachment if she didn't see some gain from it. [21:02] DaemonFC[m] If the Senate wouldn't consider it, it would be just as well to let his term expire. [21:02] DaemonFC[m] On the upside, Mike Pence finally might get to be the president. For like a week. [21:03] cybrNaut- not sure that's an upside. Pence could give Trump a pardon then [21:04] cybrNaut- (i've wondered if that's part of trump's plan) [21:05] CrystalMath what sane person wants Mike Pence to be president? [21:05] CrystalMath even for a second? [21:06] MinceR "republican"s [21:06] cybrNaut- trump could step down voluntarily, for a brief moment, just to get pardoned. But now it looks like he can be more stealthy, and get temparily "involuntarily" deposed to get a pardon [21:30] DaemonFC[m] Technically, he could declare he was incapacitated, but that's dangerous because Pence doesn't have to give it back after he pardons him. [21:30] DaemonFC[m] And Pence doesn't even have to pardon him. [21:31] DaemonFC[m] Plus, Trump hates looking weak. [21:33] DaemonFC[m] It says if the President thinks he should reassume his duties, he can ask Congress, and they have to vote on it....within 21 days. [21:35] DaemonFC[m] "In the video he speaks calmly and without any of the emotion he expresses when he means what he is saying. The script was undoubtedly written by one of his lawyers with an eye to being used in court as a defense down the road. In contrast to his usual speeches, there were only two major lies in it, namely, that he was outraged by the mob attacking the Capitol and that when he saw it happening, he deployed the [21:35] DaemonFC[m] National Guard. " [21:49] cybrNaut- i wonder if Trump burnt the bridge with Pence, or does Pence simply view the theatrics as due "pressure" to help Pence save face while neglecting to certify the election. [21:50] cybrNaut- sometimes arm-twisting helps politicians do what they secretly want to do anyway [21:51] cybrNaut- the answer to that would give an idea of whether Pence would pardon Trump [21:56] DaemonFC[m] Pence has always had a cold and distant relationship to Trump. [21:57] DaemonFC[m] The fact that almost 100 people were infected in the White House Coronavirus outbreak and Pence wasn't one of them shows us how out of the loop he is. [21:58] *cybrNaut- has quit (Quit: bailing) ● Jan 08 [22:07] *cybrNaut (~cybrNaut@rrcs-67-53-148-69.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #techrights [22:07] *cybrNaut has quit (Changing host) [22:07] *cybrNaut (~cybrNaut@unaffiliated/cybrnaut) has joined #techrights [22:48] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: Would have helped had the UK not sold off all its gold reserves at the lowest gold prices ever. [22:48] DaemonFC[m] I might be wrong, but I think they could have gotten something close to 4x as much money selling them off now vs. when they did. [22:50] DaemonFC[m] https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/trump-staffers-next-job-456315 [22:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump staffers are worrying about their next job - POLITICO [22:50] DaemonFC[m] One of them says that by not abandoning their post, they can one day spin their subservience to a president who tried to overthrow America as a good thing. [22:51] DaemonFC[m] A lot of us want to [also] build up a lot of vacation time as possible so we can get paid out what weve been planning to get paid out because a lot of us are going to be unemployed for some period of time because it has been an extraordinarily difficult time to get hired, the official said. ● Jan 08 [23:00] DaemonFC[m] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/world/biden-vaccine.html [23:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Biden Plans to Release Nearly All Available Doses to Speed Up Vaccinations - The New York Times [23:00] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: From the studies the drug companies published, two doses doesn't seem much more effective than one. [23:00] DaemonFC[m] So they're essentially cutting the vaccination rate in half and double dipping. [23:01] DaemonFC[m] And I hear that people tend to get sicker after the second dose than they did from the first.