Join us now at the IRC channel.
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142046 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3e13356c-2de3-467d-8e87-92ec2f3eba10] | Sep 13 00:02 | |
| *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 00:06 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Cinema Sins Terminator 3. | Sep 13 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware and GNU/Linux on Devices http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142047 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9d4dc93c-bba3-4814-9abe-32743faa05ac] | Sep 13 00:11 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | "Of all the people in this movie to have a vanity plate, of course it's the pet doctor who probably doesn't make much money and lives in Los Angeles." | Sep 13 00:11 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FreeBSD 12.2 Beta and Benchmarking NetBSD http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142048 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a7c48a48-d939-47e6-bc24-1481028f4cd5] | Sep 13 00:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wasmer, TenFourFox FPR27b1 and Socorro/Firefox http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142049 [https://pleroma.site/objects/519889cc-b215-489f-a526-757c65507269] | Sep 13 00:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Videos/Shows: JavaScript, Going Linux, 7 Unpopular Opinions About Linux and Open Source http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142050 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d53ddbe2-8584-45d3-baf0-ba6245cdbd0e] | Sep 13 00:22 | |
| XRevan86 | Ariadne: Do you still have access to any Pleroma? | Sep 13 00:22 |
| XRevan86 | I mean, as someone who can look at the logs :) | Sep 13 00:22 |
| Ariadne | No | Sep 13 00:22 |
| XRevan86 | :( | Sep 13 00:23 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142051 [https://pleroma.site/objects/407292ca-03ce-4ad8-a8a0-165df991adb5] | Sep 13 00:23 | |
| XRevan86 | I tried the remote subscription button, and it didn't work. Some years ago I would've brushed it off but now I think it should actually work, so this doesn't make sense. | Sep 13 00:23 |
| Ariadne | tbh I think I like GNU Social better these days | Sep 13 00:24 |
| Ariadne | you guys wouldn't make a deal with a bigot just to get users | Sep 13 00:24 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s #tuxmachines leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142051 #gnu #linux [https://pleroma.site/objects/33aedd0e-bc77-40a5-b041-c3c121e8ecc9] | Sep 13 00:24 | |
| XRevan86 | No bigot offered, but yes. | Sep 13 00:24 |
| MinceR | users are overrated :> | Sep 13 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | (no idea what that's about…) | Sep 13 00:25 |
| XRevan86 | I'll try poking around Pleroma's codebase then. Maybe I'll get lucky and find some check that I'll know fails for what GNU social gives as webfinger. | Sep 13 00:26 |
| XRevan86 | Funny that webfinger stuff that Pleroma and Mastodon use to this day is still wired around OStatus. That's comfortable %) | Sep 13 00:27 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 13/9/2020: Manjaro 20.1 Mikah, KDE Frameworks 5.74.0, Wine 5.17, Elive 3.8.16 Beta and SystemRescueCd 6.1.8 http://techrights.org/2020/09/12/elive-3-8-16-beta/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/01cea58f-f820-42e1-a6a5-b55a7f7eb948] | Sep 13 00:30 | |
| XRevan86 | nope, nothing catches my eye | Sep 13 00:33 |
| XRevan86 | https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/blob/develop/lib/pleroma/web/web_finger/web_finger.ex#L35 cute regex though | Sep 13 00:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.pleroma.social | lib/pleroma/web/web_finger/web_finger.ex · develop · Pleroma / pleroma · GitLab | Sep 13 00:36 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian Janitor: All Packages Processed with Lintian-Brush http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142052 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e6fb46af-81cb-45e0-8772-ce8ee57b8b30] | Sep 13 00:40 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How Emulate an Amiga 1200 on Your Linux PC or Raspberry Pi http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142053 [https://pleroma.site/objects/57d3f971-e6fa-4808-bb23-f35328f794c1] | Sep 13 00:45 | |
| XRevan86 | Maybe it's the lack of application/ld+json… | Sep 13 00:46 |
| Ariadne | Pleroma in it's quest to get users, decided to start collaboration with Alex Gleason who keeps trying to bring TERFs and other bigots to the fediverse | Sep 13 00:48 |
| Ariadne | in the name of "free speech" | Sep 13 00:48 |
| Ariadne | free speech means they can download and install the software themselves | Sep 13 00:48 |
| schestowitz__ | [00:24] <MinceR> users are overrated :> | Sep 13 00:49 |
| schestowitz__ | users who use platform to spread shit | Sep 13 00:49 |
| Ariadne | doesn't mean work with the guy sysadminning their shit | Sep 13 00:49 |
| Ariadne | so I quit :) | Sep 13 00:49 |
| schestowitz__ | gab was sysadmined by same people as Daily Stormer IIRC | Sep 13 00:50 |
| schestowitz__ | but gab eventually canned weaver | Sep 13 00:50 |
| schestowitz__ | because it became too much of a liability | Sep 13 00:50 |
| Ariadne | well Pleroma making a deal with gab would be bad too | Sep 13 00:50 |
| Ariadne | it's ok clearly I found other things to do :) | Sep 13 00:50 |
| schestowitz__ | in pleroma I get some stuff from "shotposter" and "freepseechextremist" | Sep 13 00:51 |
| schestowitz__ | the "ethnostate" crowd | Sep 13 00:51 |
| schestowitz__ | I "get" as in... replies from | Sep 13 00:51 |
| Ariadne | yeah but at least Pleroma didnt make a deal with that crowd | Sep 13 00:51 |
| schestowitz__ | *shitposter.club iirc | Sep 13 00:51 |
| Ariadne | working with TERFs in a project who was early adopted by queer people | Sep 13 00:52 |
| Ariadne | is not appropriate | Sep 13 00:52 |
| schestowitz__ | free as in spiel | Sep 13 00:52 |
| Ariadne | but they do it anyway | Sep 13 00:52 |
| Ariadne | so I quit :) | Sep 13 00:52 |
| *XRevan86 put ld+json there, didn't help, so it's not that. | Sep 13 00:52 | |
| *oarion7 (~anonymous@unaffiliated/oarion7) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 00:52 | |
| Ariadne | kinda sad really because I'm the one who put them on a trajectory to being a serious thing | Sep 13 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz__: shitposter.club is… not about that. | Sep 13 00:54 |
| Ariadne | no, it's not but katze is a white power dude | Sep 13 00:58 |
| *XRevan86 been scrolling a timeline, found https://gleasonator.com/@alex/posts/9z01BItJ5fUjQyluFs | Sep 13 00:58 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gleasonator.com | Soapbox | Sep 13 00:58 | |
| Ariadne | yeah that's the fancy new UI for Pleroma made by the bigot | Sep 13 00:58 |
| XRevan86 | So far I figured out that he's very vocally vegan. | Sep 13 00:59 |
| Ariadne | he is "gender critical" which is just another way of saying TERF | Sep 13 01:00 |
| XRevan86 | critical of what exactly? | Sep 13 01:00 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gender-critical okay, found it | Sep 13 01:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | gender-critical - Wiktionary | Sep 13 01:01 | |
| Ariadne | he wishes for a world where there is no gender (I have no objection to that part), but that group views trans people as a problem | Sep 13 01:01 |
| schestowitz__ | not sure what that means | Sep 13 01:02 |
| schestowitz__ | guess it boils down to definitions | Sep 13 01:02 |
| schestowitz__ | in mammals there are two types of reproductive systems | Sep 13 01:02 |
| XRevan86 | Ariadne: oh, I see, that. | Sep 13 01:02 |
| schestowitz__ | some separate that from the concept of gender and gender roles | Sep 13 01:02 |
| *XRevan86 presses the eject button. | Sep 13 01:02 | |
| schestowitz__ | but the dual reproductive system still exists | Sep 13 01:02 |
| schestowitz__ | XRevan86: cya later, pilot | Sep 13 01:02 |
| schestowitz__ | maybe in some japanese prison | Sep 13 01:03 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz__: Why Japanese? | Sep 13 01:03 |
| XRevan86 | that's pretty far away. | Sep 13 01:03 |
| schestowitz__ | They had notoriously bad treatment for captured pilots | Sep 13 01:03 |
| XRevan86 | I don't think I'll make it that far :) | Sep 13 01:04 |
| schestowitz__ | you might want to just die inside your jet/bomber | Sep 13 01:04 |
| schestowitz__ | then parachute | Sep 13 01:04 |
| schestowitz__ | *then | Sep 13 01:04 |
| schestowitz__ | **>than | Sep 13 01:04 |
| Ariadne | well I support abolition of the concept of gender and gender roles | Sep 13 01:04 |
| Ariadne | but I don't support using that ideology as an excuse to harass transgender people | Sep 13 01:05 |
| Ariadne | Gleason does. | Sep 13 01:05 |
| Ariadne | we know Gleason does because he acts as sysadmin for groups and persons who advocate for such violence | Sep 13 01:05 |
| Ariadne | if he did not agree, he would not be providing his services to those people | Sep 13 01:06 |
| Ariadne | it does not take a genius to figure that one out :) | Sep 13 01:06 |
| XRevan86 | If this is about public toilets, I'd be happy if they'll all be private for each individual person, not based on a sex group | Sep 13 01:07 |
| Ariadne | it's about the right to exist | Sep 13 01:07 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I really don't care. | Sep 13 01:07 |
| Ariadne | the people in that part of the internet write about how they would like to murder us | Sep 13 01:07 |
| XRevan86 | Ariadne: Isn't that some kind of felony? | Sep 13 01:08 |
| Ariadne | I don't care either, excepting the parts where they are rallying people to violence | Sep 13 01:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I think it's sort of low to suggest that if you send your kids into the restroom some trans person will just molest them. That's what people always said about gay people. | Sep 13 01:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Oh, they want to molest your kids. | Sep 13 01:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Don't send them in the men's room alone. There could be gays in there. | Sep 13 01:08 |
| Ariadne | sure but somebody getting a felony for murdering a trans person doesn't bring the trans person back to us | Sep 13 01:08 |
| XRevan86 | Ariadne: I mean threats. | Sep 13 01:09 |
| Ariadne | yeah but how do you hold someone on the internet accountable | Sep 13 01:09 |
| XRevan86 | not "when they do kill you, then you can reach us" | Sep 13 01:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Paranoid delusions. Assigning bad things happening that have obvious explanations to God being angry about gay marriage. | Sep 13 01:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Certainly couldn't be pollution and bad leadership (from someone they elected). | Sep 13 01:09 |
| Ariadne | and then this qanon thing | Sep 13 01:09 |
| Ariadne | that's a huge threat to trans people too | Sep 13 01:10 |
| schestowitz__ | to facts | Sep 13 01:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, my dad, very homophobic, used to tell me that Kinsey was full of it and gays were 1% of the population, and mentally ill don'tcha know? | Sep 13 01:10 |
| schestowitz__ | these idiots enter my timeline in twitter in notification | Sep 13 01:10 |
| schestowitz__ | I had to mute some, as they mass message MANY DOZENS of people | Sep 13 01:10 |
| schestowitz__ | but muting them means I still see mass replies to them | Sep 13 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Looking at marriage statistics, about 6% of the marriages in the US are same-sex averaged out over the years. | Sep 13 01:11 |
| schestowitz__ | TOTAL loons! | Sep 13 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So it's at least 6%. | Sep 13 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We only have 6 years where it's been legal everywhere in the country, but it's been legal in states before that, so throwing that in. | Sep 13 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The first year Massachusetts legalized it, it was off limits to almost all out of state residents. | Sep 13 01:12 |
| Ariadne | trans people are "mentally ill" too | Sep 13 01:12 |
| Ariadne | I don't see myself as mentally ill thanks | Sep 13 01:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But the percentage was almost 17%, but then it fell and stabilized to an average of 6.94% since 2004. | Sep 13 01:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So we're probably talking 6-7% of the US population is gay. | Sep 13 01:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But people who want to go with the mental illness accusation have an easier time when there aren't accurate government records that prove them wrong. | Sep 13 01:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Then they can make you as small as they want to claim. | Sep 13 01:13 |
| XRevan86 | Everyone's mentally ill if the bar's set high enough. | Sep 13 01:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | To be a mental illness, it has to either be disturbing the person who has it, or cause them huge difficulty in their daily functioning in society, and the only way that's ever happened in regards to sexuality is because society punished it and said you were made wrong. | Sep 13 01:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Always because of religion, even when they said otherwise. | Sep 13 01:15 |
| Ariadne | anyway my original point is Pleroma making a deal with that group is not appropriate | Sep 13 01:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Why would atheists care if you're gay or not? Christians claim that God's pissed off and he needs them to torture you about it. | Sep 13 01:15 |
| Ariadne | that's like techrights giving space to patent trolls in the name of "free speech" | Sep 13 01:16 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: From a Christian standpoint, G-dЪ might incinerate anyone in a vicinity of a Sodomite | Sep 13 01:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's great isn't it? All powerful, yet needs humans (not even his smarter ones) to do the dirty work and be his muscle. | Sep 13 01:16 |
| XRevan86 | (very scazy) | Sep 13 01:16 |
| MinceR | i thought christians weren't supposed to judge people | Sep 13 01:16 |
| Ariadne | yeah well Michabou the great hare doesn't give a shit | Sep 13 01:17 |
| MinceR | but maybe they just suck at their own religion | Sep 13 01:17 |
| XRevan86 | wanted to write "scary", but my mind was probably elsewhere :) | Sep 13 01:17 |
| Ariadne | about anything | Sep 13 01:17 |
| MinceR | i guess that's what happens when dogma contradicts itself in every point | Sep 13 01:17 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It depends on what paragraph you're on. | Sep 13 01:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <MinceR "i thought christians weren't sup"> They say that at the same time they want to be judge, jury, and executioner (if the state allows it.....sometimes extra-judicially if the state doesn't stop them). | Sep 13 01:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Things for gay people got even worse in Iraq after the US replaced Saddam Hussein. | Sep 13 01:18 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: I'm actually curious about whether the testaments ever say it's almighty… | Sep 13 01:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We inflicted a new constitution on them but immediately let them pass the death sentence for gay people. | Sep 13 01:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's W again, with his "compassionate Christian conservatism". Now my mom and dad disavow him and call him all sorts of things, including a friend of the Clintons. | Sep 13 01:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They voted for him, twice. | Sep 13 01:19 |
| XRevan86 | I only read part of the old testament, couldn't do it, even though it was a toned down version, so I can't tell if it did, but that's really not the impression that was giving. | Sep 13 01:19 |
| Ariadne | anyway I'm glad that most gay people are trans allies | Sep 13 01:19 |
| Ariadne | they're really good at dissecting that bullshit | Sep 13 01:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | John wasn't. | Sep 13 01:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I kept having to tell him to leave it alone. | Sep 13 01:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I think he just has the luxury of being 12 years younger than me on that one. I'm old enough to realize that behaving that way is just doing to someone else what other people used to say about and do to you. | Sep 13 01:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Same exact stuff. They're all child molesters. They're gross. God gave them AIDS for a reason. | Sep 13 01:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I hated hearing that in the 1990s, and it didn't stop. They're just saying it about someone else now. | Sep 13 01:22 |
| XRevan86 | different = bad, a story as old as life | Sep 13 01:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | To hear the way my parents put it, every gay man was a John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy. | Sep 13 01:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They were hiding out in the men's restroom at Walmart and Taco Bell. | Sep 13 01:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Just waiting to grab little boys. | Sep 13 01:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It really rather says a lot that the Christians have the whole world at war (through their ballots, including "domestic unrest" now) and they think nothing of it, and they're accusing anyone else of being perverted and violent. | Sep 13 01:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | In my book, you know, liking violence is a perversion and a mental health issue. That's not to say it isn't anticipated, right? I think this defund the police thing is too much. They need to be reformed. There need to be consequences for bad policing. There needs to be consequences for the ones who smash up their body cameras and stuff. | Sep 13 01:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But without them, the rioters are already bad. If you think you've seen the worst of it, just wait until half the country loses their home in the same month the IRS tells everyone who had their payroll taxes deferred they want it back at once. | Sep 13 01:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | All Trump has done is scoop and toss this mess out past the election and then the economy is going to collapse like nothing anyone alive today has ever seen. | Sep 13 01:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | You think the chart measuring unemployment this year was bad? | Sep 13 01:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | History will record this as being like the crash of '29 and remember things got a lot worse. Took months, but they got worse. | Sep 13 01:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Most of that duration was with a government that cared and tried to put people back to work. | Sep 13 01:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So imagine what Trump will do. | Sep 13 01:31 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: "decrease the funds of the police" doesn't have quite the ring to it | Sep 13 01:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Of course the criminals want less cops around. | Sep 13 01:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Once they're spread even thinner and have to prioritize what to even respond to, they'll have the run of the place. | Sep 13 01:32 |
| XRevan86 | What the police should not look like is an occupational force. | Sep 13 01:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | You want to rape someone? Go right ahead. I mean, you're in a neighborhood the police aren't taking calls from anymore. France already has them. | Sep 13 01:33 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: dunno, but there's this, for example >> http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/iron.html | Sep 13 01:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | Can God stop iron chariots? | Sep 13 01:33 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | They had to negotiate with the criminals to enforce a quiet hour on the other criminas. | Sep 13 01:33 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Oh no, not the iron! | Sep 13 01:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz__ doesn't really seem to understand what living in a region where there's a bunch of people who are only barely smart enough to fuck, do drugs, and shoot at each other is like. | Sep 13 01:35 |
| XRevan86 | a possible inspiration for cryptonite | Sep 13 01:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm very jealous. | Sep 13 01:35 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 13 01:36 |
| XRevan86 | * kryptonite | Sep 13 01:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | In a way it is like a goddamned zombie apocolypse. | Sep 13 01:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | A swarm of bodies that can just barely figure out how to turn a doorknob, but they're dangerous because there's a lot of them. | Sep 13 01:37 |
| XRevan86 | In Soviet God the sonic screwdriver only works on wood | Sep 13 01:37 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: better answer >> http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/cando.html | Sep 13 01:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | Can God do anything? | Sep 13 01:37 | |
| XRevan86 | > When Sarah laughed at God for saying he'd make Sarah pregnant | Sep 13 01:38 |
| XRevan86 | A feminine name? That's cheating. | Sep 13 01:38 |
| XRevan86 | > the God of all flesh | Sep 13 01:39 |
| XRevan86 | Hm… | Sep 13 01:39 |
| MinceR | The Flesh That Hates | Sep 13 01:39 |
| XRevan86 | Glory to Robots! | Sep 13 01:40 |
| MinceR | http://www.scpwiki.com/scp-610 | Sep 13 01:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.scpwiki.com | SCP-610 - SCP Foundation | Sep 13 01:41 | |
| XRevan86 | > The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. | Sep 13 01:41 |
| XRevan86 | Since we're on the topic: can God get pregnant? | Sep 13 01:41 |
| XRevan86 | > It was impossible for God to lie. | Sep 13 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | Oh, so God is susceptible to simple logical traps? | Sep 13 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | Explains why he got so quiet all of the sudden. | Sep 13 01:43 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 13 01:46 |
| MinceR | https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/God | Sep 13 01:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-hitchhikers.fandom.com | God | Hitchhikers | Fandom | Sep 13 01:46 | |
| MinceR | the page image for SCP-610 was removed for license reasons, but it's still available here >> https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/5/57/Victim1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170407134621 | Sep 13 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is it from a film or something? | Sep 13 01:51 |
| MinceR | "SCP-610 is based on real-life sculptures filled with torture chambers, cannibalism, morbidity, and horrific creatures named Dream Diorama. Created by the Australian sculptor and painter Mark Powell." -- https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/SCP-610 | Sep 13 01:53 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-villains.fandom.com | SCP-610 | Villains Wiki | Fandom | Sep 13 01:53 | |
| XRevan86 | Probably looks better IRL. | Sep 13 01:58 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 13 01:58 |
| XRevan86 | https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/spirit.html nice | Sep 13 02:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | Does God have a body? | Sep 13 02:00 | |
| XRevan86 | > Which is strange since no one can see God's face and live. | Sep 13 02:00 |
| XRevan86 | I don't see Moses living. Do you? | Sep 13 02:00 |
| XRevan86 | > God ... had horns coming out of his hand. | Sep 13 02:02 |
| XRevan86 | That's… interesting to know. Don't know what snarky comment to make about that. Perfect as it is. | Sep 13 02:02 |
| XRevan86 | Should be mighty inconvinient | Sep 13 02:04 |
| XRevan86 | no need for forks though | Sep 13 02:04 |
| *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | Sep 13 02:10 | |
| XRevan86 | https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/sex_menstruate.html what great morals! | Sep 13 02:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished? | Sep 13 02:10 | |
| MinceR | http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/inj/long.html | Sep 13 02:12 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | SAB Injustice List | Sep 13 02:12 | |
| XRevan86 | > Why not? What's wrong with knowing right from wrong? | Sep 13 02:13 |
| XRevan86 | Might figure out why eating of the tree of knowledge is wrong I guess %) | Sep 13 02:13 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 13 02:14 |
| XRevan86 | > God punishes Eve, and all women after her, with the pains of childbirth and subjection to men. | Sep 13 02:16 |
| XRevan86 | Except for those who don't feel the pains, those who don't have children, those who don't subject, etc. | Sep 13 02:16 |
| XRevan86 | God is all about asterisks, don't you know. | Sep 13 02:16 |
| XRevan86 | oh, and those who can't have children, of course | Sep 13 02:17 |
| MinceR | i think "God" is more about mistakes | Sep 13 02:17 |
| XRevan86 | The Bible: 2/5, the plot holes are distracting | Sep 13 02:18 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 13 02:18 |
| MinceR | it's so incredibly boring i can't give it more than 1 star out of 5 | Sep 13 02:18 |
| XRevan86 | Like I said, I couldn't finish it, so I gave it some benefit of the doubt. | Sep 13 02:19 |
| XRevan86 | also the fanbase is annoying and the fanfics are disturbing | Sep 13 02:21 |
| XRevan86 | and the extended universe is so confusing the fans keep arguing about what's canon and what's not for millennia | Sep 13 02:23 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 13 02:26 |
| MinceR | if only they only argued about it, but they also wage war about it | Sep 13 02:26 |
| MinceR | worst fandom ever | Sep 13 02:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: wait till you see the spin-offs | Sep 13 02:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Read a part of that stuff, cannot continue, too gruesome. | Sep 13 02:39 |
| XRevan86 | Still looks like the source material is written by people with schizophrenia. | Sep 13 02:39 |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Sep 13 03:03 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 03:03 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 03:04 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 03:04 | |
| *obarun has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 03:07 | |
| *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 03:13 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 03:23 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Sep 13 03:24 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 03:25 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 03:25 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 04:43 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 04:44 | |
| *CrystalMath has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 04:47 | |
| *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 04:49 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 04:53 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 05:00 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable Kernels: 5.8.9, 5.4.65, 4.19.145, 4.14.198, 4.9.236, and 4.4.236 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142054 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a80f78be-25fc-45b5-b6db-2d63729e8a80] | Sep 13 05:08 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 05:10 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142055 #kernel #linux [https://pleroma.site/objects/f4c37e18-58c0-4b0c-b13f-772b7de4f986] | Sep 13 05:11 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 05:17 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 05:24 | |
| schestowitz__ | Holy shit | Sep 13 05:33 |
| schestowitz__ | Read this message | Sep 13 05:33 |
| schestowitz__ | all the way down to the ebottom | Sep 13 05:33 |
| *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Support Richard Stallman, Jacob Appelbaum, and other good people! | https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/) | Sep 13 05:33 | |
| schestowitz__ | https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/12/msg00211.html | Sep 13 05:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC | Sep 13 05:33 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 05:33 | |
| schestowitz__ | Another person then cites this: | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | “She will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society.” | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/18/judge-rules-against-charity-worker-who-lost-job-over-transgender-tweets | Sep 13 05:34 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-amp.theguardian.com | Judge rules against researcher who lost job over transgender tweets | Transgender | The Guardian | Sep 13 05:34 | |
| schestowitz__ | So the CoC is now causing debates about this stuff | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | which tbh, has so little to do with a technical project | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | and merely provokes a lot of people | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | seems like recipe for troublemaking tbh | Sep 13 05:34 |
| schestowitz__ | https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/12/msg00063.html | Sep 13 05:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC | Sep 13 05:36 | |
| schestowitz__ | " | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | So when I refuse | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | to refer to a person with XY chromosomes as "she", or to abuse the | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | English language by calling an individual "they", in fact I am | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | defending my world view, and you must not deprive me of that right. | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | (May I remember that the incident that led to Norbert Preining's | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | temporary suspension from Debian started with him using "the wrong | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | pronoun" in a blog post!) | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | " | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | wow, they actually suspended him? | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | for referring to a person by the name? | Sep 13 05:36 |
| schestowitz__ | or as singular | Sep 13 05:37 |
| schestowitz__ | I am open to ideas | Sep 13 05:44 |
| schestowitz__ | I am open to views | Sep 13 05:44 |
| schestowitz__ | but my point is this | Sep 13 05:44 |
| schestowitz__ | when your project or team gets this stuff interjected into it... | Sep 13 05:45 |
| schestowitz__ | ...no good will come out of it | Sep 13 05:45 |
| schestowitz__ | whether that's the actual goal is another question | Sep 13 05:45 |
| schestowitz__ | There's no easy way to even handle this as admin | Sep 13 05:45 |
| schestowitz__ | if you suppress/censor the discussion, they call you tyrant/dictator | Sep 13 05:46 |
| schestowitz__ | and if you allow open discourse it won't be civil or sane | Sep 13 05:46 |
| schestowitz__ | so you're screwed either way | Sep 13 05:46 |
| schestowitz__ | discouraging troublemaking is also hard | Sep 13 05:47 |
| schestowitz__ | but it's important to tell apart the combative/militant elements | Sep 13 05:47 |
| schestowitz__ | from those who are quit harmless and don't look for a fight | Sep 13 05:47 |
| schestowitz__ | /end rant | Sep 13 05:47 |
| *oarion7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | Sep 13 05:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: More Microsoft Googlebombing Designed to Slow Down and Drown Out the News Stories About Its Sabotage of WSL2 (Whose Users Lost Work!) Within Less Than 24 Hours http://techrights.org/2020/09/13/wsl2-spam-campaign/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/2c0842e8-768d-4b5f-8b0a-048ce72bbf80] | Sep 13 06:22 | |
| schestowitz__ | https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-Arm-40bn-Imminent | Sep 13 06:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-NVIDIA Reportedly Near Deal To Buy Arm For $40+ Billion Dollars - Phoronix | Sep 13 06:26 | |
| schestowitz__ | https://www.wsj.com/articles/softbank-nearing-deal-to-sell-arm-holdings-to-nvidia-for-more-than-40-billion-11599928360 https://www.ft.com/content/6bfe40a5-2426-4743-98cd-6fed9dd01b98 | Sep 13 06:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SoftBank Nears $40 Billion Deal to Sell Arm Holdings to Nvidia - WSJ | Sep 13 06:27 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.ft.com | Subscribe to read | Financial Times | Sep 13 06:27 | |
| oiaohm | Really Nvidia getting arm that could be a long term disaster. | Sep 13 07:17 |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 07:32 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 07:36 | |
| kingoffrance | XRevan86, i could probably submit some contradictions to them :) wouldnt know where to begin. | Sep 13 07:44 |
| kingoffrance | theres quite a few things the one i glanced at that theres many more contradictions | Sep 13 07:45 |
| kingoffrance | esp if you allow multiple competing translations | Sep 13 07:45 |
| *kermit has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *Blue_flame has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *psydroid has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *danielinux has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *GNUmoon2 has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *drdogcow has quit (*.net *.split) | Sep 13 07:48 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 08:07 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 08:07 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:11 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:13 | |
| *kermit (sid393220@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:25 | |
| *psydroid (psydroidma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xxzichtljwknxqyf) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:25 | |
| *Blue_flame (kopynewmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bshvzvgercxhhekn) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:25 | |
| *danielinux (sbnc@wolfssl/developer/danielinux) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:25 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 08:26 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Sep 13 08:26 | |
| *drdogcow (~drunkendo@gateway/tor-sasl/drunkendogcowm/x-45413332) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:29 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:32 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:32 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 08:36 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:37 | |
| *oarion7 (~anonymous@unaffiliated/oarion7) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:38 | |
| *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 08:51 | |
| *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 09:10 | |
| *Digit (~user@fsf/member/digit) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 09:12 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10 Best Rolling Release Linux Distributions http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142056 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1452c629-e857-45d7-b63e-61d6b7dd4d6f] | Sep 13 09:16 | |
| *Robinson (722b4973@114-43-73-115.dynamic-ip.hinet.net) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 09:17 | |
| Robinson | hi | Sep 13 09:17 |
| Robinson | this is Robinson from Taiwan. | Sep 13 09:17 |
| Robinson | I'm very interesting for your usb display driver topic. | Sep 13 09:17 |
| Robinson | is it still alive? | Sep 13 09:17 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Jargon Buster: What is a Long Term Support (LTS) Release? What is Ubuntu LTS? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142057 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7139ed09-a273-43ea-918d-71f2765adb2a] | Sep 13 09:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142058 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6778cbb8-221c-4f6c-99c6-4d6d0e531b3c] | Sep 13 09:18 | |
| schestowitz__ | hi | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | hi, Robinson | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | sorry, we sometimes answer with some delay | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | but it seems like spam to me: | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | [09:18] <Robinson> hi | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | [09:18] <Robinson> this is Robinson from Taiwan. | Sep 13 09:23 |
| schestowitz__ | [09:19] <Robinson> We are very interesting for your usb display topic. | Sep 13 09:24 |
| schestowitz__ | [09:19] <Robinson> is it still a live? | Sep 13 09:24 |
| schestowitz__ | [09:19] <Robinson> or , your can email reply me : robinson@racer-tech.com | Sep 13 09:24 |
| schestowitz__ | what's the connection to us? | Sep 13 09:24 |
| *asusbox has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Sep 13 09:26 | |
| *asusbox (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 09:27 | |
| *oarion7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Sep 13 09:27 | |
| *mzo (~mzo@147.red-79-144-136.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 09:35 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142059 [https://pleroma.site/objects/31dc2d59-617b-4bd8-8b02-fd9a18eb237f] | Sep 13 09:37 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 09:38 | |
| Ariadne | [22:36] <58afb3schestowitz__> So when I refuse | Sep 13 09:39 |
| Ariadne | [22:36] <58afb3schestowitz__> to refer to a person with XY chromosomes as "she", or to abuse the | Sep 13 09:39 |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Sep 13 09:39 | |
| Ariadne | when they refuse to do that, they are an asshole | Sep 13 09:39 |
| Ariadne | "free speech" does not mean "free from consequence" | Sep 13 09:40 |
| schestowitz__ | yes, the latter part irked me, regarding multiple people | Sep 13 09:40 |
| schestowitz__ | and the way Debian handled the blog post that says "did it again" | Sep 13 09:40 |
| schestowitz__ | "it" referred to the action | Sep 13 09:40 |
| schestowitz__ | not to the person | Sep 13 09:40 |
| schestowitz__ | but for a non-English-speaking enforcer it seemed like ir referred to a person | Sep 13 09:41 |
| Ariadne | it is not difficult to respect your peers by using pronouns consistent with their public identity | Sep 13 09:41 |
| schestowitz__ | also, the context of it was, | Sep 13 09:41 |
| schestowitz__ | criticism of accusations Ts'o was a rape apologist | Sep 13 09:41 |
| schestowitz__ | based on some statistics posted in a mailing list ages ago | Sep 13 09:41 |
| schestowitz__ | it seems like a pattern, accusing people of excusing rape | Sep 13 09:41 |
| Ariadne | sure, I am just saying that people should just respect other people's Identity | Sep 13 09:42 |
| schestowitz__ | right, but some reject the multiple personality types | Sep 13 09:42 |
| schestowitz__ | as they view that as inherently bizarre | Sep 13 09:42 |
| schestowitz__ | I understand if incest/rape victims adopt such syndromes | Sep 13 09:43 |
| schestowitz__ | but otherwise the whole thing becomes outlandish | Sep 13 09:43 |
| Ariadne | it is a complicated issue, but I think projects can cope with it | Sep 13 09:43 |
| schestowitz__ | they can | Sep 13 09:43 |
| schestowitz__ | without expulsions | Sep 13 09:43 |
| Ariadne | ultimately it doesn't matter | Sep 13 09:43 |
| schestowitz__ | see the latest article | Sep 13 09:43 |
| Ariadne | I agree that expulsions are counter productive | Sep 13 09:44 |
| schestowitz__ | Weapons, Technology and Freedom http://techrights.org/2020/09/13/wtf-or-weapons-technology-and-freedom/ | Sep 13 09:44 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Weapons, Technology and Freedom | Techrights | Sep 13 09:44 | |
| schestowitz__ | The person who wrote it is bi, iirc | Sep 13 09:44 |
| Ariadne | if you expel someone they will just go be an ass somewhere else | Sep 13 09:44 |
| schestowitz__ | Pocock got in trouble for talking about corporate conflicts of interest | Sep 13 09:44 |
| Ariadne | you don't actually solve the problem, you just make it someone elses | Sep 13 09:44 |
| Ariadne | yeah pocock being bounced was bullshit | Sep 13 09:45 |
| Ariadne | they tried to go after him in fedora too | Sep 13 09:45 |
| Ariadne | he should just come join the alpine cabal | Sep 13 09:45 |
| schestowitz__ | "cabal" | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | RMS was meeting "gnu cabal" | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | they use it satirically | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | there used to be "linux cabal" | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | 90s I think | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | adopting the term cabal isn't helping, imho | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | negative connotation | Sep 13 09:46 |
| Ariadne | i am kidding | Sep 13 09:46 |
| Ariadne | we do not actually use that term to describe ourselves | Sep 13 09:46 |
| Ariadne | :) | Sep 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz__ | [04:10] <schestowitz__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFQw5wGWt6w | Sep 13 09:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Richard Stallman en Guadalajara | Linux Cabal - YouTube | Sep 13 09:47 | |
| schestowitz__ | [04:10] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- Richard Stallman en Guadalajara | Linux Cabal - YouTube | Sep 13 09:47 |
| Robinson | is it still alive for USB display driver ? | Sep 13 09:47 |
| schestowitz__ | Ariadne: maybe you can invite him | Sep 13 09:47 |
| Robinson | schestowitz__ | Sep 13 09:47 |
| schestowitz__ | Robinson: are you a spammer? :-) | Sep 13 09:47 |
| Ariadne | but yes | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Ariadne | https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/12/msg00011.html | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Robinson | no..... | Sep 13 09:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC | Sep 13 09:48 | |
| Ariadne | TERFs in the debian project | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Ariadne | :D | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Ariadne | good find schestowitz__ | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Robinson | come from Taiwan, SoC maker | Sep 13 09:48 |
| Robinson | is it any chance discuss about that ? | Sep 13 09:49 |
| schestowitz__ | no, if it's marketing, then go away | Sep 13 09:49 |
| Ariadne | i don't care that that person is a TERF, mind. that just means he is an asshole and willing to publicly show it. | Sep 13 09:49 |
| schestowitz__ | if it's about articles or something like a leak/source of interest, fine | Sep 13 09:49 |
| Ariadne | being an ass does not warrant expulsion, of course, but it is an interesting data point | Sep 13 09:50 |
| schestowitz__ | I think it agitates the project | Sep 13 09:50 |
| Robinson | ok, looks like you just work for method no reality... | Sep 13 09:50 |
| schestowitz__ | as the project should focus on packaging, pateching | Sep 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz__ | instead they go around policing people's personal blogs | Sep 13 09:51 |
| Ariadne | for a project that talks a big game about diversity, it is quite funny to see that debian has TERFs | Sep 13 09:51 |
| Robinson | hah, | Sep 13 09:51 |
| Robinson | performance | Sep 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz__ | those who do this often contribute no code | Sep 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz__ | and it becomes gossip mill | Sep 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz__ | and not healthy for technical projects | Sep 13 09:51 |
| Robinson | we can open | Sep 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz__ | Ariadne: that's google's mobey | Sep 13 09:52 |
| Robinson | we work on github | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | it's conditional | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | they give money for diversity projects | Sep 13 09:52 |
| Robinson | no conditinal , its a style | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | so if you say, "no, take your money away" you're racist and exist | Sep 13 09:52 |
| Robinson | we love to share | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | sexist | Sep 13 09:52 |
| Ariadne | i rather work on cultivating actual diversity in FOSS | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | we have some leaked emails to that effect | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | it is a brilliant strategy really | Sep 13 09:52 |
| Ariadne | been doing it for almost 15 years now | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | google is NOT for diversity | Sep 13 09:52 |
| *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Sep 13 09:52 | |
| schestowitz__ | they support regimes that kill women and gays | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | but they want to bribe projects | Sep 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz__ | and this gives them misleading karma | Sep 13 09:53 |
| Robinson | ok, leave now. | Sep 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz__ | and repels some longtimes contributors | Sep 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz__ | Robinson: please.. | Sep 13 09:53 |
| Robinson | -_- | Sep 13 09:53 |
| *Robinson has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Sep 13 09:53 | |
| Ariadne | having TERFs in a project also repels longtime contributors | Sep 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz__ | I think it's the first time we had pr/marketing dummies over irc | Sep 13 09:53 |
| Ariadne | or homophobes | Sep 13 09:54 |
| Ariadne | or whatever | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | Ariadne: they don't need to talk about it in the project | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | it's not them who bring that up usually | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | like Opal | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | provoking projects like this is unhelpful | Sep 13 09:54 |
| Ariadne | i agree | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | like bringing up Israel/Palestine | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | and SOMEONE will be upset | Sep 13 09:54 |
| schestowitz__ | no matter whose side is taken | Sep 13 09:54 |
| Ariadne | but, at the same time | Sep 13 09:54 |
| Ariadne | the technology industry should stop funding the work of homophobes and TERFs | Sep 13 09:55 |
| schestowitz__ | At work we ave no-politics policy | Sep 13 09:55 |
| schestowitz__ | so people don't start arguing with colleagues over politics at work | Sep 13 09:55 |
| schestowitz__ | though they can say anything they wish outside work correspondence | Sep 13 09:55 |
| Ariadne | yes, but would your employer work with, say, the KKK? | Sep 13 09:56 |
| Ariadne | or hmm, more appropriately, UKIP? | Sep 13 09:56 |
| schestowitz__ | that's separate | Sep 13 09:56 |
| schestowitz__ | that's a client ethics issue | Sep 13 09:56 |
| Ariadne | all of technology is an ethics issue | Sep 13 09:56 |
| schestowitz__ | that's what the latest article is about | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | so we need freedom to open up | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | closing it down is not leading to understanding of the issues | Sep 13 09:57 |
| Ariadne | if you let bad actors participate in your project, they can use that participation to justify their other activities | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | people go elsewhere to spout out their views anyway | Sep 13 09:57 |
| Ariadne | back in the day, we called these actors "poisonous people" | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | that's sntryism | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | entryism | Sep 13 09:57 |
| Ariadne | debian has always had "poisonous people" | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | another issue | Sep 13 09:57 |
| Ariadne | it is why debian is always having these problems | Sep 13 09:57 |
| schestowitz__ | in corporate world they do job interviews | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | and background checked | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | freesw doesn't have those filters | Sep 13 09:58 |
| Ariadne | in alpine, if we see that you're a dick, we send you on your way | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | sometimes "poisonous people" are people we do not agree with | Sep 13 09:58 |
| Ariadne | sure | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | to me, a lot of "poisonous people" are actually mainstream | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | and some are routinely on TV | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | or the trump regime | Sep 13 09:58 |
| Ariadne | also true | Sep 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz__ | bolton, tillerson, trump... | Sep 13 09:59 |
| Ariadne | but i am saying that free software projects can be more selective of participants | Sep 13 09:59 |
| Ariadne | and likely should be to ensure project health | Sep 13 09:59 |
| Ariadne | "don't work with assholes" should be an obvious rule | Sep 13 09:59 |
| schestowitz__ | choose productive participants | Sep 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz__ | who have a coding history | Sep 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz__ | otherwise you end up with a bunch of non-productive netkkkops | Sep 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz__ | and the project dies | Sep 13 10:00 |
| Ariadne | yes, but i would rather work with productive participants who can write code who are not say, ulrich drepper | Sep 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz__ | all the people who do the work do their own thing, e.g. devuan | Sep 13 10:00 |
| Ariadne | ulrich can code, but he cannot deal with people either | Sep 13 10:00 |
| Ariadne | you need people who can do both | Sep 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz__ | I don't know him, but I heard the name | Sep 13 10:00 |
| Ariadne | which automatically precludes bigots, because they cannot work with people in all scenarios | Sep 13 10:01 |
| schestowitz__ | you might be taking the most extreme examples | Sep 13 10:01 |
| Ariadne | ulrich drepper was the glibc maintainer | Sep 13 10:01 |
| Ariadne | he is also the reason alpine uses musl | Sep 13 10:01 |
| Ariadne | before alpine existed, many alpine developers were debian developers. we had bad experiences dealing with ulrich. so we used uclibc, and then later, musl. | Sep 13 10:02 |
| Ariadne | to avoid having to deal with ulrich any further :) | Sep 13 10:02 |
| schestowitz__ | makes sense, you benefited from having choice | Sep 13 10:03 |
| schestowitz__ | without working to cancel a person | Sep 13 10:03 |
| Ariadne | no point in "cancel" people if you never have a relationship with them to begin with. | Sep 13 10:04 |
| Ariadne | which is my point. | Sep 13 10:04 |
| schestowitz__ | right, so we agree | Sep 13 10:04 |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:04 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:04 | |
| schestowitz__ | social-engineering project can remove all participants | Sep 13 10:04 |
| Ariadne | you can get a pretty good read on someone quickly. and project maintainers should do that and make decisions on who they collaborate with. | Sep 13 10:04 |
| schestowitz__ | it seeds discord in projects that had balance | Sep 13 10:05 |
| Ariadne | i would say it is the function of good project leadership, really. | Sep 13 10:05 |
| schestowitz__ | The Debian chauvinists isn't a new issue | Sep 13 10:05 |
| Ariadne | and when you do that correctly, you don't really need CoC or whatever | Sep 13 10:05 |
| schestowitz__ | a decade back I remember some French dev who was hostile towards women | Sep 13 10:05 |
| Ariadne | no, it's not. but when we started alpine, we made sure we wouldn't have that in alpine. | Sep 13 10:05 |
| schestowitz__ | or perceived as such | Sep 13 10:05 |
| Ariadne | and alpine is healthier as a result. | Sep 13 10:05 |
| schestowitz__ | maybe he left on his own at the end | Sep 13 10:05 |
| schestowitz__ | CoC is good, but.. | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | in theory | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | in practice I see who enforcs it | Sep 13 10:06 |
| Ariadne | a CoC is just a mission statement. | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | and that worries me | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | like the same companies that BAN WORDS | Sep 13 10:06 |
| Ariadne | where it goes from there can be good or bad. | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | http://techrights.org/2020/01/03/linux-kernel-code-of-conduct-committee/ | Sep 13 10:06 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Foundation’s Linux Kernel Code of Conduct (CoC) Committee is Now Officially Corporate | Techrights | Sep 13 10:06 | |
| schestowitz__ | This is how CoC is done wrong | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | it's about corporations expelling people to suit their agenda | Sep 13 10:06 |
| schestowitz__ | selective enforcement | Sep 13 10:07 |
| schestowitz__ | past hoc justifications | Sep 13 10:07 |
| Ariadne | ultimately, as i said, it comes down to leadership to establish good culture in a project | Sep 13 10:07 |
| Ariadne | debian never did that. | Sep 13 10:07 |
| schestowitz__ | Corruption and bribery? OK | Sep 13 10:07 |
| Ariadne | instead they established bureaucracy. | Sep 13 10:07 |
| schestowitz__ | CoC does not say much about whistleblower anyways | Sep 13 10:07 |
| schestowitz__ | then they accuse the messenger of using the "wrong" tone | Sep 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz__ | or "offending" those complicit | Sep 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz__ | Ariadne: even in the 90s | Sep 13 10:08 |
| Ariadne | yes, even in the 90s. | Sep 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz__ | 1996 has many examples (Debian-Private) | Sep 13 10:08 |
| Ariadne | debian has basically been broken since day 1. | Sep 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz__ | Perens isn't good with people | Sep 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz__ | he refers to himself as a third person and has ego issues, based on my reasongs | Sep 13 10:09 |
| schestowitz__ | *readings | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | anyway, ulrich is a massive ass | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | he wound up getting fired from redhat | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | because he threatened to relicense all glibc code under his own copyright | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | because the FSF pissed him off | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | i guess he is at goldman sachs now writing high frequency trading code | Sep 13 10:09 |
| schestowitz__ | they're good at that | Sep 13 10:09 |
| schestowitz__ | (FSF) | Sep 13 10:09 |
| Ariadne | people would ask for reasonable things in glibc, like strlcpy/strlcat | Sep 13 10:10 |
| Ariadne | and he would reply with stuff like | Sep 13 10:10 |
| Ariadne | YOU ARE A BIG FUCKING IDIOT IF YOU WANT THIS YOU SHOULD SIGN MY PAY CHECK | Sep 13 10:10 |
| Ariadne | if we were making the decision *today* and thus, ulrich was not in the picture, we probably would have chosen glibc for alpine. | Sep 13 10:11 |
| Ariadne | but that was then, and this is now. | Sep 13 10:11 |
| schestowitz__ | then = 90s? | Sep 13 10:11 |
| Ariadne | either way, ulrich's behavior towards debian contributors, is why alpine is not a gnu/linux distribution but instead independent | Sep 13 10:12 |
| Ariadne | no. this was going on all the way up to 2015 | Sep 13 10:12 |
| schestowitz__ | but apline does have linux and some gnu | Sep 13 10:12 |
| schestowitz__ | seems like a mix of things | Sep 13 10:12 |
| Ariadne | yes, some gnu. but we don't have glibc. | Sep 13 10:12 |
| schestowitz__ | good to have choices | Sep 13 10:12 |
| Ariadne | and, at least in my opinion, gnu/linux implies glibc. | Sep 13 10:12 |
| Ariadne | because "gnu/linux" is an ABI | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | described by the LSB | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | no glibc, no LSB compliance | Sep 13 10:13 |
| schestowitz__ | but there's more to linux+gnu than gcc and compiling the c code | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | thus can't really be called gnu/linux | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | right, exactly. | Sep 13 10:13 |
| schestowitz__ | almost all "linux commands" are just gnu | Sep 13 10:13 |
| schestowitz__ | many written originally by rms | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | and if you want gnu coreutils, you can install it :) | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | you can even install coreutils on freebsd | Sep 13 10:13 |
| Ariadne | but that doesn't make freebsd gnu :) | Sep 13 10:14 |
| Ariadne | though, gnu coreutils has problems | Sep 13 10:14 |
| Ariadne | FSF's push to make everything GPLv3 has resulted in forks of coreutils | Sep 13 10:14 |
| Ariadne | for example, collabora has a fork of coreutils that they use with their customers with features from newer versions reimplemented | Sep 13 10:15 |
| schestowitz__ | I didn't know that | Sep 13 10:15 |
| schestowitz__ | either way, more can be good | Sep 13 10:15 |
| schestowitz__ | contrary to what monopolists say | Sep 13 10:16 |
| schestowitz__ | monocultural monopolists | Sep 13 10:16 |
| schestowitz__ | going to take a nap now | Sep 13 10:16 |
| Ariadne | i think a lot of GNU software is well polished, but in bad shape code-wise | Sep 13 10:18 |
| Ariadne | same with BSD codebases | Sep 13 10:18 |
| Ariadne | it would be nice to start rewriting these components using modern practices | Sep 13 10:18 |
| *inky (~inky@141.136.77.120) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:21 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 10:27 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 10:27 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has left #techrights | Sep 13 10:28 | |
| *smnthermes (976c22869c@xmpp.snopyta.org) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:29 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:33 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 10:35 | |
| oiaohm | Ariadne: problem is number of hours to rewrite those code bases., | Sep 13 10:45 |
| oiaohm | Some ways slowly hardening C compiler might be the right way forwards. | Sep 13 10:46 |
| Ariadne | doing both is worthwhile | Sep 13 10:58 |
| oiaohm | sel4 shows that a C code base can be made secure. | Sep 13 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Code does not have to be that modern in coding design to be seure. | Sep 13 11:00 |
| oiaohm | secure | Sep 13 11:00 |
| *mzo (~mzo@147.red-79-144-136.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has left #techrights ("Leaving") | Sep 13 11:03 | |
| oiaohm | Ariadne: forking of coreutils was happening when coreutils was GPLv2 as well. | Sep 13 11:05 |
| oiaohm | The fun of commercial interests at play. | Sep 13 11:05 |
| Ariadne | sure. but now even FOSS companies are doing it | Sep 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | That not different. | Sep 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | FOSS companies were forking coreutils back in GPLv2 as well. | Sep 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | In both directions over time. | Sep 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | You have 1 group who wants mandated sharing by license and another group who does not want mandated sharing by license. | Sep 13 11:07 |
| oiaohm | That is a constant flux. | Sep 13 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Really there no point in most countries forking coreutils gplv2 instead of using gplv3 as in most countries Gplv2 and Gplv3 by court rulings is 100 percent the same thing. | Sep 13 11:09 |
| oiaohm | Most countries have ruled Gplv2 has a implied patent grant. So that is the same as Gplv3 stated patent grant. | Sep 13 11:09 |
| oiaohm | Ariadne: yes commercial interested are not past stupid panic and forking over nothing. | Sep 13 11:11 |
| *inky has quit (Quit: IRC for Sailfish 0.9) | Sep 13 11:32 | |
| MinceR | 13 063439 < schestowitz__> which tbh, has so little to do with a technical project | Sep 13 11:43 |
| MinceR | well, debian ceased to be a technical project when they official adopted the dogma that claims that what used to be GNU/Linux should be "standardized" by hedrat | Sep 13 11:44 |
| MinceR | and that there should be no "fragmentation" | Sep 13 11:44 |
| MinceR | it would have been the logical thing to do to just make a fedora spin with their branding on it, and then they can spend all the remaining time debating about shit like this | Sep 13 11:45 |
| MinceR | or just declare even having different logos/names/wallpapers "fragmentation" and direct their users to fedora or rHELL | Sep 13 11:45 |
| MinceR | s/cial/cially/ | Sep 13 11:46 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/20012426 | Sep 13 11:55 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4305550) | Sep 13 11:55 | |
| MinceR | (cat) https://i.imgur.com/tdIDKf1.jpg | Sep 13 12:10 |
| *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 12:33 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How to Read Nodes in #Kubernetes http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142060 [https://pleroma.site/objects/516c6eec-4e42-4b21-bd19-511d27ffe6c6] | Sep 13 13:03 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Xfce 4.16: First Look at the New Features and Improvements http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142061 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2e1fd407-52c9-49ba-b656-5b77f93e269b] | Sep 13 13:04 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Deepin Linux 20 Review: Beautiful Desktop with Stability http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142062 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cf683a0e-5746-47b1-a5e7-8232dbad6f72] | Sep 13 13:05 | |
| oiaohm | MinceR: really what point in history was it a technical project. Early debian was funded to put GNU on Linux not do large technical development. | Sep 13 13:20 |
| MinceR | putting GNU on Linux is technical | Sep 13 13:20 |
| oiaohm | Not really | Sep 13 13:20 |
| MinceR | capitulating to rh/ibm and spreading rh/ibm's gospel is not | Sep 13 13:20 |
| MinceR | once their lord and savior proclaims that "fragmentation" in package managers is heresy, you can bet they're going to throw out apt and dpkg as well | Sep 13 13:21 |
| MinceR | and then what remains? | Sep 13 13:21 |
| oiaohm | choice of sysvinit for early debian over rc from bsd was capitulation to FSF wishes on early debian. | Sep 13 13:23 |
| oiaohm | History of debian has very frew choices and a lot of following the largest development party at the time. | Sep 13 13:23 |
| MinceR | the FSF didn't have their own competitor to debian | Sep 13 13:25 |
| MinceR | ibm does | Sep 13 13:25 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Sep 13 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Hurd was meant to be the competitor to debain. | Sep 13 13:25 |
| MinceR | then again, there isn't much left of the FSF anyway | Sep 13 13:25 |
| MinceR | HURD is not a GNU/Linux distribution | Sep 13 13:25 |
| oiaohm | It was meant to be a GNU distribution. | Sep 13 13:25 |
| MinceR | and it's not going anywhere | Sep 13 13:25 |
| MinceR | especially since it was infiltrated by systemd believers | Sep 13 13:26 |
| oiaohm | HURD early development was screwed up. Yes FSF early support of debian was on the idea of debian being a stop gap until Hurd was ready. | Sep 13 13:26 |
| oiaohm | The early case was really FSF miss management. | Sep 13 13:27 |
| oiaohm | But still does not mean Debian was have its own free ideas in that time. | Sep 13 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Problem of capitulating is a very long term Debian thing. | Sep 13 13:28 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/ Really its simple to forget Debian was not intended to end at having a Linux kernel as core. | Sep 13 13:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.debian.org | Debian -- Debian GNU/Hurd | Sep 13 13:29 | |
| oiaohm | Scale of early debian failure to complete FSF objectives is impressive. | Sep 13 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Of course that is linked to Hurd failure to come a system effective kernel. | Sep 13 13:31 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: I guess it never crossed your mind that debian was not meant to be a Linux Distribution at all and basically fell into that because the Linux kernel worked. | Sep 13 13:34 |
| *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Sep 13 14:03 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 14:32 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 14:32 | |
| *oarion7 (~anonymous@unaffiliated/oarion7) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 14:59 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 16:05 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 16:05 | |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Sep 13 16:11 | |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Sep 13 16:11 | |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 16:18 | |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-82.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 16:19 | |
| cubexyz | do a distro roll call.. I'll start | Sep 13 17:03 |
| cubexyz | slackware, vector linux & openbsd | Sep 13 17:03 |
| cubexyz | oiaohm, still using kde 3.5.10 on a couple of boxes | Sep 13 17:04 |
| *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 17:04 | |
| *tdemin (~tdemin@2a03:1ac0:6dc3:9367::209) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 17:15 | |
| *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Sep 13 17:15 | |
| *timur_demin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Sep 13 17:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Weekly Roundup - Vivaldi, Manjaro 20.1, Wine 5.17 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142063 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b46c1e24-05b4-41a7-884d-5b2f57156f64] | Sep 13 18:53 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE’s Latest Plasma Wallpaper is Here And It’s …Shiny http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142064 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fc62aec6-d1fd-49c1-a90b-f8225740ff7b] | Sep 13 18:54 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best Free and Open Source Terminal-Based Music Players http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142065 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f279cba1-fbbd-4c9b-9336-bc4a517cc2d0] | Sep 13 18:56 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kate - Color Themes with Frameworks 5.75 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142066 [https://pleroma.site/objects/53c993ef-a797-4abb-8254-3b9d1b8f69f8] | Sep 13 18:58 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Latest On The Linux 5.9 Kernel Regression Stemming From Page Lock Fairness http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142067 [https://pleroma.site/objects/03fc8e4f-adfa-4a14-b98b-fa75bb2bc5bd] | Sep 13 19:00 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142068 [https://pleroma.site/objects/97a93786-4ee3-4f41-90ee-4c7ee38fae4a] | Sep 13 19:01 | |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/20012418 | Sep 13 19:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4305362) | Sep 13 19:10 | |
| *oarion7 has quit (Quit: Running IRC on a charmed medieval abacus.) | Sep 13 19:48 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Hurd idea was kind of a Unix people ignoring the PC thing. | Sep 13 20:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | By the late 1980s, it was obvious that the PC would come out on top in the computing market and the Hurd suffers from all of the problems of minix and more. | Sep 13 20:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It wasn't designed to perform well and they didn't really design it around the dominant 386 architecture anyway. | Sep 13 20:12 |
| MinceR | it was designed to be robust, afaik | Sep 13 20:13 |
| MinceR | which is a good idea once your computer is powerful enough (and PCs are) | Sep 13 20:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Torvalds said that Linux was designed to use almost all of the 386's features because that's what he had. One of the problems with minix at the time, other than the license, was that Tanenbaum held it back to 286 systems, which were horribly obsolete, and argued that this was a feature. | Sep 13 20:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Hurd still crashes a lot. | Sep 13 20:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Even corrupts the Ext2fs file system, which is what it supports on the file system server. | Sep 13 20:14 |
| MinceR | afaik HURD needed a new microkernel, which is not happening | Sep 13 20:14 |
| *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 20:14 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | No, because nobody in their right mind is making those. | Sep 13 20:14 |
| MinceR | why? | Sep 13 20:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Although some things that should probably be in the kernel somewhere are pushed out into userspace on Linux distributions. | Sep 13 20:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm not a fan of having sound mixing in userspace. | Sep 13 20:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It should also be much simpler than Pulseaudio. | Sep 13 20:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Things where there's a lot of chatter back and forth requiring context switches that can't really be one thing or the other should probably go into the kernel somewhere when they work well. | Sep 13 20:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The objection to dbus in the kernel was that the userspace daemon was a wreck. | Sep 13 20:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Once they get rid of Torvalds, things like that will just go through. | Sep 13 20:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Nobody really looked into correctness, performance bottlenecks, and security issues in dbus until Torvalds told them no. | Sep 13 20:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They thought they'd just dump it into the kernel and then someone else would have to maintain it because it was there now and a guarantee of the Linux kernel. | Sep 13 20:19 |
| MinceR | poetteringaudio is probably far from the best audio mixing that can be done in userspace | Sep 13 20:23 |
| MinceR | and afaik when people blame context switching for performance issues, they're usually wrong | Sep 13 20:24 |
| MinceR | https://lolnein.com/2019/10/24/tiktok/ | Sep 13 20:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lolnein.com | TikTok | Sep 13 20:31 | |
| *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Sep 13 20:43 | |
| *guysoft42 (~guysoft@109-186-101-66.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 21:15 | |
| *GuySoft (~guysoft@109-186-101-66.bb.netvision.net.il) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 21:15 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | <MinceR "and afaik when people blame cont"> Well, they cheated by mapping the kernel address space but then that had to be undone on most Intel processors. | Sep 13 21:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, there's apparently protesters outside a hospital in LA. | Sep 13 21:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Two Sheriffs deputies were injured severely in a surprise attack and may die. | Sep 13 21:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Apparently, the protesters are chanting "We hope you die!" over and over. | Sep 13 21:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | "The online survey, which was commissioned by the left-leaning group Vote Common Good and conducted by a team of academic pollsters from the University of Southern California, Duke University, University of Maryland College Park and University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, predicts an 11 percentage point swing toward Biden among evangelicals and Catholics who backed Trump in 2016, based on input from both | Sep 13 21:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | demographics across five major 2020 battleground states: Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Other polls have captured similar gains in Biden’s religious support, including an August survey by Fox News that showed the former vice president at 28 percent support among white evangelicals — up 12 percentage points from 2016 exit polls for the Democratic nominee." | Sep 13 21:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Apparently, enough Christian voters have had enough with this. The whole tear gassing protesters to stand there like an idiot for a few minutes with a bible he's never read was enough to do serious damage to Trump with white evangelicals. | Sep 13 21:22 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 28% of them now support Biden, and that was 16% for Hillary Clinton according to exit polls in 2016. | Sep 13 21:22 |
| *GuySoft has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) | Sep 13 21:34 | |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC[m]: the orgianl hurd problem was that it would resist completely crashing. Microkernel design for you a core service crash lets auto restart that over and over again. So making debugging hell. | Sep 13 21:35 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Pulseaudio is in fact less buggy than artsd, esound and most other sound servers. Of course its not idea pipewire that target is to merge pulseaudio and jackaudio will finally get to the best possible audio server in userspace. | Sep 13 21:38 |
| oiaohm | idea/ideal | Sep 13 21:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | My laptop does not handle 10 bit HEVC at 2160p very well. | Sep 13 21:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It seems that sooner or later, the picture freezes up and I have to nudge the progress bar to the next superframe. | Sep 13 21:39 |
| *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 22:06 | |
| MinceR | oiaohm: lol | Sep 13 22:27 |
| MinceR | "just toss in even more code" | Sep 13 22:27 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: funny as it sounds pipewire on Audio side is less code. | Sep 13 22:28 |
| MinceR | iirc aRts didn't break ALSA for other programs like poetteringaudio does | Sep 13 22:28 |
| oiaohm | artsd did break alsa using application back in the day. | Sep 13 22:29 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: breaking alsa for other programs is not a unique to pulseaudio thing. | Sep 13 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Of course it was simple for artsd/esound and other sound servers back in the day break ALSA because there was no ALSA test suite back then to make sure you modifications on ALSA side somewhat worked. | Sep 13 22:31 |
| oiaohm | One thing Pulseaudio developers did finally make that was important was a ALSA testsuite. | Sep 13 22:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: I left comments on the Lake County Prosecutor's Youtube channel. | Sep 13 22:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Talking about the hate crime case that he dropped where a white Trump supporter chased a Hispanic man down with a icepick and told him "Go back where you came from." and also the case where he turned around Illinois' Criminal Conspiracy Murder law to go after 4 kids who tried to steal a car for felony murder because the homeowner shot one of them. | Sep 13 22:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I called him the Lake County Hate Crimes Enabler. | Sep 13 22:36 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: you need to take rose colored glasses off with sound servers. The reality is we have not had one sound server on Linux that is not some level of broken. Please note it took over 3 years of pulseaudio development before they got serous about hey we need a ALSA testsuite to prevent mess. | Sep 13 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Even the OSS stuff before ALSA lacked a proper formal test suite to make sure drivers worked right and that the multi application audio was working right. This in fact comes forwards to current day OSS as well. | Sep 13 22:38 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best Free and Open Source Web Servers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142069 [https://pleroma.site/objects/02f9989d-7c2d-4fde-9b29-360d669cb4c8] | Sep 13 22:39 | |
| oiaohm | At some point in future Linux Audio need lot more proper engineering work. | Sep 13 22:39 |
| oiaohm | because the past does not have it. | Sep 13 22:39 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i don't have them on | Sep 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | but i'm not deaf | Sep 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | when poetteringaudio is incapable to of playing audio without skips, i notice | Sep 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | i'm also not blind | Sep 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | so when poetteringaudio has an atrocious UX, i notice | Sep 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | for example, if a client outputs audio only in short bursts, it is very difficult to change what device does it output to | Sep 13 22:43 |
| MinceR | because it will only appear momentarily in pavucontrol | Sep 13 22:43 |
| MinceR | also, Linux audio needing more engineering work implies Linux surviving, which seems unlikely to me | Sep 13 22:43 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: artsd, esound and NAS also suffer from skips back in the day. Jackaudio without realtime features also does skips. | Sep 13 22:44 |
| oiaohm | General audio server without proper kernel intergration to get CPU time when it needs it will skip. | Sep 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | nobody forced you to use arts or esound back in the day | Sep 13 22:45 |
| oiaohm | Heck even dmix will skip. | Sep 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | i don't think dmix ever skipped for me | Sep 13 22:45 |
| oiaohm | that would be luck.\ | Sep 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | also, you could just run applications on plain ALSA while using arts or esound | Sep 13 22:46 |
| oiaohm | All of them do it. | Sep 13 22:46 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#ALSA/dmix_without_grabbing_hardware_device You can run pulseaudio in the old arts/esound way. | Sep 13 22:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.archlinux.org | PulseAudio - ArchWiki | Sep 13 22:47 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.wpri.com/news/politics/raimondo-to-sign-executive-order-removing-providence-plantations-from-official-documents/ | Sep 13 22:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Raimondo signs executive order removing ‘Providence Plantations’ from official documents | WPRI.com | Sep 13 22:48 | |
| oiaohm | Not that it recommend as you do open up risk of the same pandora issues with changing alsa options as you use to with artsd and esound. | Sep 13 22:48 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 5 Linux VPN Providers To Secure your Connections With http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142071 [https://pleroma.site/objects/50a84635-3fd0-45c1-a17a-b71f99439e4a] | Sep 13 22:48 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Trevor Noah who tries to claim he knows a lot about history said he had no idea that the name of Rhode Island is officially State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. | Sep 13 22:48 |
| oiaohm | When I say pandora issues I mean lock the sound card up so it jams on a tone or something else equally horrible and possible headphone/speaker destorying. | Sep 13 22:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Then he said the word plantation is racist, when it's really just an archaic term for a colony. | Sep 13 22:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Trevor Noah is very dishonest. | Sep 13 22:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He's turned the Daily Show into a daily two minutes hate against white people. | Sep 13 22:49 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: the audio stack is horrible broken yes broken to the point at times you break hardware. | Sep 13 22:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He's part of cancel culture. I really hope they just cancel him. The Daily Show really ceased to exist when Jon Stewart left. He was funny, at least. All Trevor Noah does is complain. | Sep 13 22:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Jon Stewart was great at trolling Republicans. | Sep 13 22:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He just let them do what they do and wrote jokes around it. It was great. In 2004, when the Republicans were trying to make a constitutional gay marriage ban (which they knew couldn't pass, but their voters aren't that smart), the author of the proposed amendment got caught asking 15 and 16 year old boys for sex over email. He was the main reason they had to end the Congressional Page program. His name was Mark Foley | Sep 13 23:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | (R-Florida), and so Stewart had a whole segment called Foley Erect for like a week. | Sep 13 23:00 |
| *GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Sep 13 23:05 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux File Systems: Everything You Need to Know http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142072 [https://pleroma.site/objects/79c3e9d2-a73b-4d7e-96a4-b80cb8db0141] | Sep 13 23:08 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Xfce 4.16pre1 Released As The First Step Towards This Next Desktop Update http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142039#comment-26400 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b045903a-8c7b-4e26-ba54-f76830ed091d] | Sep 13 23:09 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Bounty Battle, Battle for Wesnoth, PyGame and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142073 [https://pleroma.site/objects/52366646-4870-4d24-8c5e-6c66e1490979] | Sep 13 23:12 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mark Shuttleworth Now Plans To Restore Ubuntu’s Community Council http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142074 [https://pleroma.site/objects/643f556f-8e50-4193-b95b-82a6c025d99a] | Sep 13 23:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME 3.37.92 Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142075 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4ff54ff3-a790-4944-803e-37b0e5925a80] | Sep 13 23:18 | |
| *guysoft42 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | Sep 13 23:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts: Deepin 20 Run Through, Snaps, Test and Code (Python) and GNU World Order http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142076 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fb9bf74f-4fd2-4564-bfbe-27f58c424dd0] | Sep 13 23:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #KDE : Linux App Summit, #Oxygen Reboot, and Develop.kde .org http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/142077 [https://pleroma.site/objects/15066590-7539-4ce7-a98f-bdc08f695645] | Sep 13 23:29 | |
| MinceR | lol @ Foley Erect | Sep 13 23:30 |
| kingoffrance | yes, trevor noah seems to serious IMO; stewart was silly and immature maybe, but he seemingly never took himself too seriously | Sep 13 23:45 |
| kingoffrance | serious is fine maybe, but not for that type of show | Sep 13 23:45 |
| kingoffrance | stewart was straight man faux seriousness many times | Sep 13 23:46 |
| *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights | Sep 13 23:55 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
