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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Thursday, December 19, 2019

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danielp3344DaemonFC: yes and noDec 19 00:00
danielp3344hybrid and electric cars are weirdDec 19 00:00
DaemonFC[m]If you watch the real time mileage on my car, it drops to the single digits when you're accelerating, but it gets into the 30s when you're on the highway at 50 miles an hour.Dec 19 00:00
danielp3344in urban driving very little energy is lost to friction and air resistance, so a car with regenerative braking can do very wellDec 19 00:00
danielp3344but on the highway you don't get any energy backDec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]> the pt cruiser is one of the ugliest cars ever madeDec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]GM hired the asshole who made that piece of shit.Dec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]Then their cars looked like garbage as well.Dec 19 00:01
MinceR:>Dec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Not that cars don't all look awful today.Dec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]They're made for the government, not the people who drive them.Dec 19 00:01
MinceRthere are some nice looking cars todayDec 19 00:01
DaemonFC[m]They end up with questionable safety features and stuff that cost a lot of money, whether you want them or not.Dec 19 00:02
DaemonFC[m]When airbags were new, they were optional. They usually added $800-900 as extra equipment, and this was when they were front only.Dec 19 00:05
DaemonFC[m]Now the government mandates that your car turns into nothing but airbags when you have a crash.Dec 19 00:06
DaemonFC[m]How much do you think that costs?Dec 19 00:06
danielp3344how many people does it kill yearlyDec 19 00:06
DaemonFC[m]Backup cameras used to be an extra $500-600.Dec 19 00:06
MinceRat least they don't fill up with quickly hardening foam ;)Dec 19 00:06
DaemonFC[m]Now they're mandatory.Dec 19 00:06
MinceRbackup cameras are greatDec 19 00:06
danielp3344DaemonFC: backup cameras are stupidDec 19 00:06
DaemonFC[m]I had this really advanced safety system on my 1985 Jimmy.Dec 19 00:07
DaemonFC[m]It was called a mirror.Dec 19 00:07
XRevan86MinceR: Skimmed through some of those, got to 19 00:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Clarke and Dawe - The War in Iraq. Not the Previous One. The Current One. - YouTubeDec 19 00:07
DaemonFC[m]It always told me when I was about to back up over somebody.Dec 19 00:07
DaemonFC[m]For some reason, you have to have a camera now.Dec 19 00:07
XRevan86MinceR: A Space Quest reference %)Dec 19 00:07
MinceRDaemonFC[m]: cars tend to have worse visibility toward the rear nowadaysDec 19 00:08
XRevan86or just a boring generic radio referenceDec 19 00:08
MinceRsmaller windows are fashionable, cars are taller and biggerDec 19 00:08
XRevan86one of the twoDec 19 00:08
MinceRalso, tinted windows are commonDec 19 00:08
MinceRwhich help against the summer heat, but don't do much for visibility at night :>Dec 19 00:08
DaemonFC[m]> smaller windows are fashionable, cars are taller and biggerDec 19 00:10
DaemonFC[m]So is the rear window wiper that the car wash eventually rips off.Dec 19 00:10
MinceRthat's why you need manual car washDec 19 00:10
MinceRwell, one of the reasonsDec 19 00:10
MinceRthere are more finicky pieces that an automatic car wash could damageDec 19 00:10
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: There's not too many self-service bays anymore.Dec 19 00:10
MinceRlike the ACC radar :>Dec 19 00:10
MinceRit doesn't have to be self serviceDec 19 00:10
DaemonFC[m]They know about the "bring your own soapy water and a mitt" lifehack so you only have to pay to rinse.Dec 19 00:11
MinceRthe place where i had my car cleaned, they did it all for meDec 19 00:11
danielp3344 roflDec 19 00:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Any problems passing nys inspection sticker call me ....6467l20735 - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle automotive saleDec 19 00:12
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: One thing I do miss about John is that he appreciated my sense of humor.Dec 19 00:12
DaemonFC[m]We went to a discount furniture chain and pretended to look around sometimes when we were bored.Dec 19 00:12
DaemonFC[m]I was joking with him one day we'd have to run because they'd know about the ice cream sandwiches.Dec 19 00:12
MinceR 19 01:32
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Dec 19 03:18
oiaohm  reading down this list windows listed as harded PCs.Dec 19 03:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | MALT: Services AlternativesDec 19 03:19
MinceRlolDec 19 03:19
MinceRhow to harden a windows PC: remove windowsDec 19 03:19
r_schestowitzput  pr0n on it?Dec 19 03:20
MinceRlolDec 19 03:24
MinceRas they'd say on imgur, "put... put your dick in it"Dec 19 03:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Peppermint 10 Linux OS Gets Respined, It's Now Based on Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS []Dec 19 03:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: CERN Endorsing Microsoft Alternatives Like ownCloud, Kopano, Alt-Office Suite []Dec 19 03:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Python Bytes, FLOSS Weekly, Linux Headlines, mintCast []Dec 19 03:45
DaemonFC[m]For some reason, Linux battery life on laptops still leaves something to be desired. Dec 19 03:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: Research Grants, Compatibility and UX []Dec 19 03:53
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: there are a lot of reasons for it.Dec 19 03:53
DaemonFC[m]Like what?Dec 19 03:54
MinceRlaptop manufacturers keeping details on how to get their hardware to waste less power secretDec 19 03:54
MinceRbecause "fuck anyone who buys our products"Dec 19 03:54
oiaohmwhat MinceR said is kind of right.   But its only one of the reasons.   Dec 19 03:57
oiaohmWe have vendors screwing up there ACPI information in bios and loading a driver under windows to fix it.Dec 19 03:59
oiaohmbios/UEFIDec 19 03:59
MinceRacpi is cancerDec 19 03:59
oiaohmThis results in need todo custom ACPI table at times to get you power management back or worse that you LCD screen on your laptop backlight powers on at all.Dec 19 04:01
oiaohmNext is can be Intel and AMD to blame for in fact don't providing the drivers to Linux to drive particular chipsets correctly for power effectivness.Dec 19 04:02
oiaohmthen you have third party chipset issues.Dec 19 04:02
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]:  also its not black and white either.Dec 19 04:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-A Look At The Windows 10 vs. Linux Power Consumption On A Dell XPS 13 Laptop - PhoronixDec 19 04:05
oiaohmThere are laptops where Linux beats windows 10 into the ground on power management.Dec 19 04:05
oiaohmOf course its all the same kinds of crap why Windows 10 is losing to Linux in those case as well.Dec 19 04:05
MinceRthere's only so much secret tricks in blobs can do against Backdoors10 doing all the unnecessary stupid shit in the background :>Dec 19 04:05
MinceRlike the built-in keyloggerDec 19 04:06
oiaohmLinux distributions can be doing a huge stack of crap like indexiting every file because it fells like it as well.Dec 19 04:06
MinceRand all the phoning homeDec 19 04:06
oiaohmruining battery life.Dec 19 04:06
oiaohmWindows monitoring stuff as horrible as it sounds is not as bad was what some distributions waste time doing.Dec 19 04:06
oiaohmwhen you are talking about battery life harm.Dec 19 04:07
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: there is a horrible one at times you can extend you battery life of your laptop by not implementing particular security fixes.Dec 19 04:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Intel's Graphics Driver DoS Fix Last Week Has Hurt Power Consumption - PhoronixDec 19 04:11
oiaohmSo reason why laptop battery life at times suxs with Windows or Linux are basically the same list of evil problems.Dec 19 04:11
oiaohm1) crap of some form running that you really don't need.Dec 19 04:12
oiaohm2) ACPI table screw up by vendor.Dec 19 04:12
MinceRat least one can pick a distro that doesn't run quite as much crapDec 19 04:13
oiaohm3) screw up by driver makers so driver does not power to hardware effectively.  This can be vendor not providing this or got it wrong.Dec 19 04:13
DaemonFC[m]Oh great.Dec 19 04:13
DaemonFC[m]Can you turn this fix off?Dec 19 04:13
oiaohm4) security that one OS has implemented something more secure than the other resulting in one OS taking a high power usage hit.Dec 19 04:13
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: really the Intel graphics GFX fix the blocks you graphical output from freezing solid at random?  You want to remove that patch????Dec 19 04:14
DaemonFC[m]I wonder if Panel Self Refresh is still broken.Dec 19 04:15
DaemonFC[m]I haven't tried it in about 8-9 months.Dec 19 04:15
oiaohmPlease note that bug Intel implemented for Windows and Linux.Dec 19 04:16
DaemonFC[m]1-2 watts can mean 30-45 minutes less battery life.Dec 19 04:16
MinceRintel is good at implementing bugsDec 19 04:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Dec 19 04:16
oiaohmSo longer battery life with random lockups or shorter battery life with no lockups choose.Dec 19 04:17
MinceRfor example, there's that massive bug they call TianoCoreDec 19 04:17
MinceRthough maybe it came from microsuck and they just put their name on it, who knowsDec 19 04:17
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: exactly the problem.   A few of these minor problems could take ta 10 hour battery life laptop on one OS to like a 4 hour on another.Dec 19 04:17
MinceRif you get a lockup, you can just rebootDec 19 04:17
MinceRsort of equivalent to Backdoors10 rebooting 63 times while you're trying to get work done because updates are more important than youDec 19 04:18
oiaohmMinceR: depends if it like the intel one where its not just reboot but remove the battery.Dec 19 04:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: C, Grantlee and Python Package Index (PyPI) []Dec 19 04:18
oiaohmMinceR: and you hope the battery is not inside the case.Dec 19 04:18
MinceRshould be easy, you just undo the latches and... wait a minute ;)Dec 19 04:18
oiaohmMinceR: you know how laptops these days are going for glued in batteries.Dec 19 04:18
MinceRyeahDec 19 04:19
MinceRlaptops have truly gone to shit, even ThinkPadsDec 19 04:19
oiaohmFaults like that graphic lock up was not that bad with the old school removable battery laptops.Dec 19 04:19
oiaohmNew ones real serous pains in ass.Dec 19 04:19
MinceRand so have phonesDec 19 04:20
oiaohmI am serousally looking at my next phone being a pinephone when its more ready.Dec 19 04:20
MinceRi'm seriously looking at getting a pinephone as a pda and privacy-respecting backup phone when i get a credit card and they're sellingDec 19 04:21
oiaohmpinephones being sold now are the developer version.Dec 19 04:21
MinceRthough for that second function, i haven't looked into how secure its baseband actually can beDec 19 04:22
oiaohmI am waiting for the production version.Dec 19 04:22
oiaohmThey do have a proper off switch for the baseband.Dec 19 04:22
oiaohmand its not a in soc baseband.Dec 19 04:22
MinceRsure, but what if i boot it up with a SIM and use it on a mobile network once? can they break into the phone and compromise it then?Dec 19 04:23
oiaohmNot easily because there is no shared memory between the cpu running your OS and the baseband.Dec 19 04:24
oiaohmI would not say impossible but a lot harder than a crap all in one stupid.Dec 19 04:25
oiaohmMinceR: there is a interesting feature the pinephone does have boot straight from SD card.Dec 19 04:26
oiaohmSo it is possible to have a audit my device sd card.Dec 19 04:27
MinceRmy favorite featureDec 19 04:27
MinceRit allows for OS updates/replacements without the danger of bricking the phoneDec 19 04:27
r_schestowitzRe: The Register on "Microsoft Linux"Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> We would be familiar with the typical Microsoft strategy. In this case,Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> "partner" with a Linux company, generate some mindshare goodwill, thenDec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> make sure the Linux subsystem isn't any use and will only run on Windows.Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> What the fuck was Canonical thinking in 'partnering' with the borg?Dec 19 04:32
r_schestowitz> Dec 19 04:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Crossing the platforms: The Register checks in with Canonical's WSL alternative – Multipass • The RegisterDec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> Dec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> This is what Lenin refereed to supporters of Soviet-ism in the westDec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> "useful idiots"Dec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> Dec 19 04:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Canonical sponsors WSLConf at Microsoft HQ | UbuntuDec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> 19 04:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Hayden Barnes (@unixterminal) on TwitterDec 19 04:33
r_schestowitz> You should create a Reddit forum, I know you don't like them, but that'sDec 19 04:34
r_schestowitz> were the audience is.Dec 19 04:34
r_schestowitzYou suggested this before, but it's like outsourcing... and to hostile territories.Dec 19 04:34
MinceRwhat was canonical thinking, ever?Dec 19 04:34
r_schestowitzI knowDec 19 04:36
r_schestowitzI did not even reply to itDec 19 04:36
r_schestowitzbut I might bring it upDec 19 04:36
MinceR:>Dec 19 04:37
DaemonFC[m]It says enabling panel self refresh is dangerous and gave me a kernel tainted thing.Dec 19 05:21
DaemonFC[m]But it doesn't freeze now with it on.Dec 19 05:21
r_schestowitz>> We need to  unearth that old article about El Reg-Microsoft partnershipDec 19 05:28
r_schestowitz> Probably found in the 2003 or 2004 series, but just as an announcementDec 19 05:28
r_schestowitz> not necessarily a main article.Dec 19 05:28
r_schestowitzThese things are hard to find.Dec 19 05:28
r_schestowitzI also noticed it's hard to find announcements of Bill Gates bribes for particular publishes because once paid they're googlebombing the relevant search phrases with puff pieces (paid for).Dec 19 05:28
oiaohmr_schestowitz: Its not quite as straight forwards.    WSL1  was the Microsoft being the borg.   Then having enough stuff not work that they had to go WSL2 with real Linux kernel.Dec 19 05:32
oiaohmr_schestowitz: Now Microsoft in their desktop product is has to care about Linux security as well as Windows security.Dec 19 05:33
oiaohmr_schestowitz: Canonical and Microsoft I am not sure what one is the Borg.   Its basically  Species 8472 vs Borg.Dec 19 05:34
DaemonFC[m]It doesn't seem like the Borg want to assimilate humans that much.Dec 19 05:36
DaemonFC[m]They've assimilated species that are about 400 years ahead of the Federation in technology.Dec 19 05:39
DaemonFC[m]The Federation's most important advantage was that the Borg had assimilated Picard and he knows how they think and what some of their weaknesses are.Dec 19 05:41
oiaohmI remember dr who where the cybermen and the dalek in one series were stuck because they were waiting for a absolute advantage one way or the other. Dec 19 05:54
oiaohmRemember just because races are 400 years+ ahead of us might mean they are safer to take on as well.  Why they might have grown out of the stupidity of possibly blowing up own planet in so called self defense.Dec 19 05:56
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Register Has Been Mostly Microsoft Propaganda Disguised as 'News' After That Microsoft Partnership (Money) []Dec 19 11:22
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Dec 19 11:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #PinePhone – An Open Source Smart Phone for Everyone []Dec 19 11:29
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kdenlive 19.12 is out []Dec 19 11:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Go mouseless with the Linux Ratpoison window manager []Dec 19 11:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Dec 19 11:43
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: The Coma 2: Vicious Sisters, Life is Strange, The Sapling, Rocky Planet, Dicey Dungeons, PuPaiPo Space Deluxe []Dec 19 11:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Dec 19 12:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: The Linux Link Tech Show, Self-Hosted and Linux in the Ham Shack []Dec 19 12:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: TCO of FOSS vs Closed Source: Mr. Bacil, you are wrong []Dec 19 12:22
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME's ATK, GTK and More []Dec 19 12:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox contained in Flatpak vs Snap comparison []Dec 19 12:48
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Dec 19 13:11
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 19/12/2019: Mesa 19.3.1, WordPress 5.3.2 and Kdenlive 19.12 Released []Dec 19 13:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Dec 19 13:39
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GStreamer Rust bindings 0.15.0 release []Dec 19 13:43
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: NVIDIA's Open-Source PhysX SDK Nearing 5.0 Release []Dec 19 13:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GPaste Review – The Best Clipboard Manager for Gnome []Dec 19 13:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenStack and Kubernetes architecture on rails with Canonical and Dell EMC []Dec 19 13:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Announcing NVIDIA PhysX SDK 5.0 []Dec 19 13:53
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MinceR19 063310 < oiaohm> r_schestowitz: Now Microsoft in their desktop product is has to care about Linux security as well as Windows security.Dec 19 14:16
MinceRmicrosloth never cared about securityDec 19 14:16
MinceRof any sortDec 19 14:16
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r_schestowitzMinceR: yeahDec 19 14:27
r_schestowitzI just ignored that nonsenseDec 19 14:27
r_schestowitzlinuxgirl was pissed off by himDec 19 14:29
r_schestowitzexpression positions we'd never holdDec 19 14:29
r_schestowitzhe speaks for himselfDec 19 14:29
r_schestowitzMicrosoft and proxies like black duck constantly tell us linux and foss are not secureDec 19 14:29
r_schestowitzand are riskDec 19 14:29
r_schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't care even about its own securityDec 19 14:30
r_schestowitzjust about nsa back doors, which signal to Trump they play ball and want to be rewarded with gov contractsDec 19 14:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Tmux vs. Screen tool comparison []Dec 19 14:31
oiaohmMinceR: Microsoft cares about security that the tick we did the CVE box so companies buying their products are happy.Dec 19 14:32
r_schestowitzor govsDec 19 14:32
r_schestowitzwhich love back doorsDec 19 14:32
r_schestowitzmany cves are not published or issuedDec 19 14:32
r_schestowitzthey sit on theseDec 19 14:32
r_schestowitzfor back door accessDec 19 14:33
r_schestowitzand docs from snowden already proved t hisDec 19 14:33
oiaohmMinceR: microsoft does not care about security to the level we like.Dec 19 14:33
XRevan86oiaohm: Does Windows actually have Linux in it?Dec 19 14:33
oiaohmBut its not that they don't care at all.Dec 19 14:33
oiaohmXRevan86: wsl2 for windows 10 is in fact a Linux kernel in there.Dec 19 14:33
XRevan86I figured that WSL provides a shim that allows a Linux kernel to be ranDec 19 14:33
XRevan86oiaohm: So they patch it and bundle it?Dec 19 14:34
oiaohmXRevan86: yep.Dec 19 14:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - microsoft/WSL2-Linux-Kernel: The source for the Linux kernel used in Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)Dec 19 14:35
XRevan86But why…Dec 19 14:35
XRevan86I thought it's Hyper-VDec 19 14:35
XRevan86and Linux supports that, I thinkDec 19 14:35
XRevan86some integration crap?Dec 19 14:36
r_schestowitzwhat oiaohm says is absurdDec 19 14:36
XRevan86oiaohm: Also, I can't help but notice that the version in this repo is out of date.Dec 19 14:36
r_schestowitzso I'm leaving this discussion, without prejudice Dec 19 14:37
XRevan866 point releases behindDec 19 14:38
r_schestowitz(like having a debate with person who says smoking ok coz grandpa smoked and didn't die young or a theist who says he saw Jesus in his own eyes)Dec 19 14:39
oiaohmXRevan86: 6 point releases behind means it current by CVE.   That is really a foolish thing to go by for security.  By hey that Microsoft standard.Dec 19 14:42
oiaohmAnd they really did not have a choice I cannot find the presentation where they list the WSL1 issues that to fix as a shim was basically going to break the NT kernel.Dec 19 14:43
MinceRoiaohm: companies buying microshit products are clueless and don't care about securityDec 19 14:43
MinceRthere is a lot of posturing, thoughDec 19 14:43
MinceRthey pay lip service to security and use it as an excuse for anticompetitive trickery like Restricted BootDec 19 14:44
oiaohmMinceR:  "The WSL kernel will be built using Microsoft’s world-class CI/CD systems and serviced through Windows Update in an operation transparent to the user."   This in fact true.Dec 19 14:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Shipping a Linux Kernel with Windows | Windows Command LineDec 19 14:47
oiaohmOne problem is the next bit in there.Dec 19 14:47
MinceRlolDec 19 14:48
oiaohm This bit >> We continually monitor Linux security mailing lists and partner with several CVE database companies to help ensure that our kernel has the most recent fixes and mitigations.Dec 19 14:48
MinceRi know their "world-class" systems too well to fall for this bullshitDec 19 14:48
oiaohm  << you watch this bit you see problem.Dec 19 14:48
XRevan86It just means that they automated deploymentDec 19 14:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | CVEs are dead, long live the CVE! | Kernel Recipes 2019Dec 19 14:49
oiaohmYou can have a world class system for doing CI/CD but if one of your inputs is in fact garbage the output will be garbage.Dec 19 14:49
MinceRusing tools that don't workDec 19 14:49
MinceRand they'll tear WSL2 out from under you while you're trying to use it because "updates"Dec 19 14:49
oiaohmCVE is garbage.Dec 19 14:49
MinceRprobably along with rebootingDec 19 14:49
XRevan86Why can't they just pick every point release?Dec 19 14:49
MinceRmaybe that wouldn't cause enough rebootingDec 19 14:50
oiaohmExactly that what the talk I just pointed to says you should do and totally ignore CVE.Dec 19 14:50
XRevan86Not totallyDec 19 14:50
oiaohmBecause CVE will either make you apply patches that don't do anything.Dec 19 14:50
XRevan86but uh, it's not a reliable mechanismDec 19 14:50
oiaohmOr not apply all the security patches.Dec 19 14:50
XRevan86to offload one's responsibility toDec 19 14:51
MinceRCVEs might make government drones happy, thoughDec 19 14:51
oiaohmExactly offload one responsiblty to CVE means make one defective product.Dec 19 14:51
oiaohmMinceR: and stupid parties managing Microsoft quality control system.Dec 19 14:52
MinceRit would be quite a surprise if microsuck ever made a product that wasn't defectiveDec 19 14:52
MinceR"microsoft quality control" is a contradiction in termsDec 19 14:52
MinceRlike they say, if microsoft made a vacuum cleaner, that would be the only microsoft product that didn't suckDec 19 14:52
XRevan86oiaohm: First you say that Microsoft will care about Linux security now, then you say that all they're after is collecting ticksDec 19 14:52
oiaohmCaring about security to point all CVE are patched Microsoft is not the only one gulity of this.  Redhat and ubuntu and SUSE are as well.Dec 19 14:53
oiaohmSame with many other parties.Dec 19 14:53
MinceRduhDec 19 14:54
oiaohmMicrosoft handling of security resulting in insecure products turns out not to be Mcirosoft Unique.Dec 19 14:54
MinceRif they cared about security, they wouldn't be sitting on the systemd bandwagonDec 19 14:54
oiaohmHeck android phone vendors are even worse.Dec 19 14:54
XRevan86MinceR: By that logic their blowing machines willDec 19 14:55
MinceRnot just androidDec 19 14:55
MinceRmobile and IoT in general uses a broken update methodDec 19 14:55
MinceRif anyDec 19 14:55
XRevan86oiaohm: One thing is supporting an officially unsupported kernel, another is just ignoring updates because they don't have CVEsDec 19 14:56
XRevan86There are no point releases hereDec 19 14:57
XRevan86I mean, for the WSL "kernel".Dec 19 14:57
oiaohmXRevan86: redhat developers have been caught putting CVE on stuff that are not security faults to get feature backported to older RHEL release.Dec 19 14:57
MinceRlolDec 19 14:58
XRevan86oiaohm: That's the most corporate thing I've ever heard ofDec 19 14:58
XRevan86"well, we have a policy…"Dec 19 14:58
XRevan86so we game itDec 19 14:58
oiaohmSo ignoring updates because they don't have CVE is not just a micorosft problem.Dec 19 14:58
oiaohmRedhat takes it to a totally new level.Dec 19 14:58
XRevan86oiaohm: But again, rolling releases have simpler rulesDec 19 14:59
oiaohmBasically general commercial software development security model is broken due to goverments putting in contracts all CVE bugs must be patched instead of proper software quality validation processes.Dec 19 15:00
oiaohmSo I am not sure that Microsoft does not care about security now.  Its more looks like a industry wide screw up.Dec 19 15:01
oiaohmSomeone came up with a method todo security that does not work and then forced it on everyone.Dec 19 15:02
MinceRit's an industry wide screwup that microshit had a big role inDec 19 15:03
MinceRsame with the industry-wide expectation that software rarely works if ever and is full of bugs that will never get fixedDec 19 15:04
MinceRand that if you're having a problem with a computer, you just reboot it or reinstall it until the problem goes awayDec 19 15:04
MinceR   ( )Dec 19 15:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Us government - Album on ImgurDec 19 15:06
oiaohmMinceR: sorry to horrible no Microsoft did not exactly have a big role the CVE created mess.     Microsoft was pulled kicking and screaming into supporting CVE by security researches listing bugs in CVE then getting governments to put the CVE must be patched requirement in contracts.Dec 19 15:11
MinceRi didn't say "CVE" anywhere in that sentenceDec 19 15:11
oiaohmEven this screw up Microsoft did not have a big hand in either.Dec 19 15:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Common Criteria - WikipediaDec 19 15:13
MinceRthey did have a big hand in forcing a web browser full of holes on usersDec 19 15:14
MinceRthey did have a big hand in winblows 95 phoning home without asking the user about itDec 19 15:14
MinceRthey did have a big hand in killing off many competitors who paid some attention to their products and as such had far more secure productsDec 19 15:15
oiaohmThis is not sounding any different to car makers before proper government regulations.Dec 19 15:15
MinceRthey did have a big hand in forcing an OS that is full of holes and backdoors to be installed on practically all PCs soldDec 19 15:15
MinceRgovernment regulations are worthless and ineffective at bestDec 19 15:16
MinceRgovernment regulations got us a boxed version of winblows without idiot exploiter and another without media player, both priced the same as the version that had bothDec 19 15:16
MinceRas "punishment" and "solution" to their monopoly tacticsDec 19 15:16
MinceRgovernment regulations got us a browser choosing window in winblows that disappeared after a few monthsDec 19 15:17
oiaohmI would agree the government regulation we have got so far has been fairly useless.Dec 19 15:17
MinceRif it was useful, they'd cancel itDec 19 15:17
oiaohmLike if CVE and common criteria were in fact done right we would not seen browsers full of holes.     We would not have open source projects still running with any form of quality control either.Dec 19 15:19
oiaohmany including none.Dec 19 15:19
XRevan86 19 15:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Santa Hat on vscode insiders and pushing of religion is very offensive to me · Issue #87268 · microsoft/vscode · GitHubDec 19 15:21
XRevan86This warrants commentary from scientes %)Dec 19 15:21
XRevan86Looks like an attempt at trolling, and a successful oneDec 19 15:24
oiaohm  << Lot of ways the current computer software industry remind me of the  Pharmaceutical  industry before the 1858 when the regulations were total crap.Dec 19 15:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Arsenic and the Bradford poisonings of 1858 | Feature | Pharmaceutical JournalDec 19 15:25
MinceRmicrosloth deserves all the SJW attacks they getDec 19 15:26
XRevan86This is a religious oneDec 19 15:26
XRevan86from a holy warriorDec 19 15:27
oiaohmThat one is mega stupid.Dec 19 15:28
MinceRwhich religion does a santa hat symbolize?Dec 19 15:28
oiaohmThe reality it does not santa if a made up thing.Dec 19 15:28
XRevan86MinceR: HrestianityDec 19 15:28
oiaohmXRevan86: nop.Dec 19 15:29
MinceRlolDec 19 15:29
MinceRhow?Dec 19 15:29
XRevan86cocacolaism?Dec 19 15:29
MinceRlol noDec 19 15:30
XRevan86oiaohm: I am aware that Christianity doesn't care about fairy tale figuresDec 19 15:30
XRevan86oiaohm: But the fairy tale figure is based on Christianity stillDec 19 15:30
XRevan86even if looselyDec 19 15:31
XRevan86and it's not uncommon to appropriate it without the Christianity baggageDec 19 15:31
oiaohmXRevan86: it is a intentional for profit mess up 19 15:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saint Nicholas - WikipediaDec 19 15:32
MinceRthat's not appropriationDec 19 15:32
MinceRthe appropriation was what the christians didDec 19 15:32
MinceRdid saint nicholas ever wear a santa hat?Dec 19 15:32
XRevan86Slavic pagan Died Moroz has been adapted with Santa Claus symbolism in USSR no problemDec 19 15:32
oiaohmXRevan86: to the point saint Nicholas name is stolen as an excuse name for santa.Dec 19 15:33
XRevan86> A solemn bronze statue of the saint by Russian sculptor Gregory Pototsky was donated by the Russian government in 2000, and was given a prominent place in the square fronting the medieval Church of St. Nicholas. In 2005, mayor Süleyman Topçu had the statue replaced by a red-suited plastic Santa Claus statue, because he wanted an image more recognisable to foreign visitors. Protests from the RussiaDec 19 15:35
XRevan86n government against this were successful, and the bronze statue was returned (albeit without its original high pedestal) to a corner nearer the church.Dec 19 15:35
oiaohmKey difference between proper Saint Nicholas and Santa is that the proper Saint Nicholas you are to give gifts any time of the year and the stocking at the fire place was for you own birth day.Dec 19 15:35
oiaohmExactly total mess up of poor Saint Nicholas by the fake.Dec 19 15:36
oiaohmThink about it Christmas in it current form is a way to get you to buy your child 2+ gifts a year instead of 1. Dec 19 15:37
XRevan86oiaohm: That's how the story originatedDec 19 15:37
XRevan86oiaohm: And in Russia it's New YearDec 19 15:38
MinceRin several languages, "christmas" has a name that doesn't even refer to any abrahamic religionDec 19 15:38
XRevan86oiaohm: Maybe it delivers if it was adopted and securalisedDec 19 15:39
XRevan86MinceR: The Rebirth?Dec 19 15:39
oiaohm As soon as you start digging into this stuff the bigger mess this holiday stuff is.Dec 19 15:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | We're All Celebrating Christmas On The Wrong DayDec 19 15:41
XRevan86MinceR: The whole deal is Christian. If it doesn't refer, maybe it's a different festivity.Dec 19 15:41
oiaohmLike lot of the Christian holidays were internationally created to conflict with pagen ones. Dec 19 15:41
oiaohmThis in fact includes christmas.Dec 19 15:42
XRevan86oiaohm: True, but that still means it's a different holiday.Dec 19 15:42
MinceRXRevan86: lolDec 19 15:42
MinceRXRevan86: solstice, yule, karachunDec 19 15:42
oiaohmIts why you see chrismas in many languages that don't refer to any abrabhamic religion is basically progressive corruption'sDec 19 15:43
XRevan86oiaohm: There are also calendaric differences that detach Christmas from, say, solstice, and even from other Christmasses Dec 19 15:44
MinceRthose are mistakes in determining when solstice isDec 19 15:45
MinceRand failure to keep track of calendar reformsDec 19 15:45
oiaohmXRevan86: in fact no history of christmas has it moved around.Dec 19 15:45
XRevan86oiaohm: It's debatable which one is the moved one, but what about Christmas at January 7th?Dec 19 15:45
oiaohmXRevan86: so areas with pagen doing lot of solstice events the christmas in that area was done. solstice.   With calander errors that moved all over the calander.Dec 19 15:46
oiaohmwas done on solstice.Dec 19 15:46
XRevan86So many things got changed and reshaped, that I don't really see the point in putting an equality sign between modern Western tradition of Christmas and history of ChristmasDec 19 15:47
oiaohmXRevan86: Historic calanders solstice appears anywhere from November 10 to Feb 10 before we corrected the number of months and days to be correct.Dec 19 15:47
XRevan86Santa Claus is more a product of refined commercial appeal than any historical event.Dec 19 15:48
oiaohmThat solstice mess and the bad calanders lead to the mega mess of people arguing over what date could be chritmasDec 19 15:48
XRevan86and they never ask themselves whether christmas should even beDec 19 15:49
oiaohmHeck the date of birth was never correctly recorded in the first place.Dec 19 15:49
MinceRthe date question is easily solved thoughDec 19 15:50
MinceRstart the yule season right after halloween ends and have it last until the 1st of januaryDec 19 15:50
MinceRor beyondDec 19 15:50
XRevan86> the date question is easily solved thoughDec 19 15:51
XRevan86$ seq 1 365 | shuf | head -n1Dec 19 15:51
XRevan86272Dec 19 15:51
MinceR:>Dec 19 15:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best Gnome distro of 2019 []Dec 19 15:53
oiaohmMinceR: yule as exact time frame.   Starts on  solstice ie this year dec 22 and runs for 12 days so Jan 2 it ends.  And that is a throw back to a 12 day week historic calander.Dec 19 15:55
XRevan86Back to the original point: I think it's useless and futile to get worked up over such things.Dec 19 15:55
oiaohmYes Christmastide what the christian churches first over lap with yuel.   Who would love chrismas to run 12 days again?Dec 19 15:57
XRevan86Let's discuss how X-mas is actually Khi-mas :)Dec 19 15:57
XRevan86and not Eks-masDec 19 15:58
oiaohmThe romans did not like there slaves and workers taking 12 days off.Dec 19 15:58
oiaohmLeading to the single day thing.Dec 19 15:58
XRevan86and with modern (/k/) pronunciation that turns into kiss-masDec 19 16:00
oiaohmyule use to be part the english pagan calendarDec 19 16:00
XRevan86well, not really, but closeDec 19 16:01
oiaohmOf course that calendar was one of the ones that had the right number of days in it.Dec 19 16:01
oiaohmBut we had to replace it with the roman one right.Dec 19 16:01
XRevan86oiaohm: How many days did the Roman have?Dec 19 16:01
oiaohmXRevan86: 355 so out by 10 days per year.Dec 19 16:03
oiaohmAnd that was the corrected one from the luna mess.Dec 19 16:03
XRevan86"how could you miss?"Dec 19 16:04
oiaohmLets just say historic Roman calender's where well up there in useless.Dec 19 16:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: Firefox Reality (VR), Rust, MDN Web Developer, .Org and Mike Hoye []Dec 19 16:05
oiaohmThe was a 304 day roman calendar that stayed kind of right.   Yes the ~61 days of winter was not given a month or days...  Basically 61 days off a year.Dec 19 16:07
oiaohmKind of important to stock up for winter with that calander.Dec 19 16:07
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat, Fedora and IBM Leftovers []Dec 19 16:08
oiaohmXRevan86: the historic calender's based around Solstice and Equinox all got the number of days in year right.   All the historic calenders like the roman ones based of moon and other things got number of days in year horrible wrong.Dec 19 16:10
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oiaohmXRevan86: now if you are look at the time of christ death.  roman calander is less of a messDec 19 16:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Julian CalendarDec 19 16:20
oiaohmBut still a mess that it had to be reset in 1582.Dec 19 16:20
oiaohmWelcome to holdiay confusion caused by calander confusion.Dec 19 16:21
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MinceR19 165756 < XRevan86> Let's discuss how X-mas is actually Khi-mas :)Dec 19 16:33
MinceRit's a latin letter, not a greek one :>Dec 19 16:33
XRevan86MinceR: No, it's a Greek letterDec 19 16:34
MinceRyou're thinking of Χ-mas, not X-masDec 19 16:34
XRevan86MinceR: Next thing you'll tell me I *have to* spell TeX as TeΧDec 19 16:35
MinceR:>Dec 19 16:35
XRevan86lateks?Dec 19 16:35
MinceRlatexDec 19 16:35
MinceR(not lateχ)Dec 19 16:35
XRevan86> LaTeX, which is pronounced «Lah-tech» or «Lay-tech» (to rhyme with «blech» or «Bertolt Brecht»)Dec 19 16:36
XRevan86so by all means it's spelt with an X just for Latin-1 convinienceDec 19 16:37
MinceRso where's the faq on xmas?Dec 19 16:38
XRevan86The idea is banal: Христос, so XDec 19 16:38
MinceRor it's a crossDec 19 16:38
XRevan86T works better as a crossDec 19 16:39
XRevan86Christian cross that isDec 19 16:39
XRevan86X is a literal cross after all :)Dec 19 16:39
MinceRof course, this is yet another issue that calling it something non-abrahamic solves easilyDec 19 16:39
XRevan86ClausmasDec 19 16:40
MinceRgrav-massDec 19 16:40
MinceRscary solsticeDec 19 16:40
*XRevan86 reads 19 16:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Mass (liturgy) - WikipediaDec 19 16:40
XRevan86MinceR: grav-mass isn't really catchy alasDec 19 16:40
MinceRyuleDec 19 16:41
XRevan86MinceR: Offensive to the South Hemisphere %)Dec 19 16:41
MinceRhow so?Dec 19 16:42
XRevan86MinceR: Winter solsticeDec 19 16:42
MinceRthe whole thing is from the northern hemisphere :>Dec 19 16:43
XRevan86MinceR: But winter solstice occurs half a year in the Southern Hemisphere after it had in the NorthernDec 19 16:43
XRevan86so it stops making senseDec 19 16:44
MinceRif so, then celebrating it on dec 25 or jan 7 also doesn't make senseDec 19 16:44
XRevan86unless dates are moved around (and then it stops superseding Christmas)Dec 19 16:44
MinceRthe dates were already moved aroundDec 19 16:44
XRevan86MinceR: Christmas is pretty arbitraryDec 19 16:45
XRevan86so it works for itDec 19 16:45
MinceRand when the christianofascists are trying to use the renaming of something they stole from the romans as a tool to force their bullshit on people, how arbitrary is that?Dec 19 16:46
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XRevan86MinceR: 19 16:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Торжество Православия. Часть 2 (анафема). Святогорская Лавра. 5.03.17г. - YouTubeDec 19 16:50
MinceRewDec 19 16:51
XRevan86This excommunication signing is so corny it gets to meDec 19 16:51
XRevan86AnaaaaaaaatheeeeeeeeemaDec 19 16:51
MinceRit took some extra mental effort to not close it before they got to the end of the 3rd aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaDec 19 16:52
MinceR 19 16:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectDec 19 16:53
XRevan86MinceR: I thought you'd like the guy who looks like he's getting a high from thisDec 19 16:53
XRevan86"looks"Dec 19 16:53
MinceRi hate himDec 19 16:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Dec 19 16:55
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Alpine 3.11.0 released []Dec 19 17:03
XRevan86MinceR: An unexpectedly strong emotionDec 19 17:04
MinceRis me hating cultists new to you? :>Dec 19 17:04
XRevan86MinceR: This got across as something more personal :)Dec 19 17:04
MinceR"nothing personnel... kid"Dec 19 17:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Django, PyCharm, Python, 'RIP' Linux Academy and Looking Into the Next 20 Years of Enterprise Java []Dec 19 17:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Chrome OS 79 Adds Media Controls in Lock Screen, Mouse Acceleration Control []Dec 19 17:18
rianne__ 19 17:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facebook is building an operating system so it can ditch Android – TechCrunchDec 19 17:26
MinceRthey could just buy one from their pals at microslothDec 19 17:27
MinceRah, they did start with some retard who was responsible for parts of the worst OS design in the universeDec 19 17:28
MinceRi guess cutler was unavailableDec 19 17:28
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Super Early PinePhone Review That Has Me Super Excited []Dec 19 17:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mesa 20.0's RADV + ACO Vulkan Driver Now Consistently Beating AMD's AMDVLK Linux Driver []Dec 19 17:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Dec 19 17:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Rust Programming Language Blog: Announcing Rust 1.40.0 []Dec 19 17:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Dota Underlords, Basketball Classics and Stadia []Dec 19 18:00
oiaohmMinceR:  he goes back before Windows NT hes a old VMS developer.Dec 19 18:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Mark Lucovsky - WikipediaDec 19 18:04
psydroidthird time is a charmDec 19 18:07
oiaohm  VMS holds a very horrible record one of the longest existing bugs discoverd only 33 year after its introduction.Dec 19 18:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | OpenVMS - WikipediaDec 19 18:07
oiaohmpsydroid: I bet he crossing fingers that is the case.Dec 19 18:10
MinceRoiaohm: same shit, different dayDec 19 18:21
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oiaohmMinceR: they are different design operating systems.   With new ways to stuff up.Dec 19 18:25
MinceRnot different enoughDec 19 18:26
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microsoft Caught Putting Ads In Windows 10 Flagship Apps []Dec 19 18:45
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Surveillance Openwash: Zigbee Alliance []Dec 19 18:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Dec 19 19:01
XRevan86 "no need to #deleteGitHub as they do it the right way"Dec 19 19:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | #Firebird driver for #PHP 7.4 ready for download https://mapopa.blo...Dec 19 19:09
*XRevan86 can't find a git repo not on GitHub.Dec 19 19:09
XRevan86i.e. not 19 19:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - FirebirdSQL/php-firebird: Firebird PHP driverDec 19 19:10
r_schestowitzhmmmm :/Dec 19 19:12
*XRevan86 also thought that it's part of the PHP distribution.Dec 19 19:13
XRevan86 and it is?Dec 19 19:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | PHP: Installation - ManualDec 19 19:14
---ChanServ gives channel operator status to MinceRDec 19 19:15
XRevan86;a=tree this does look like the same code.Dec 19 19:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Git - pecl/database/interbase.git/treeDec 19 19:17
XRevan86The only difference being some README additions in the Firebird's copy.Dec 19 19:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers []Dec 19 19:18
XRevan86Was it done just for user friendliness when Firebird isn't compiled-in in PHP?Dec 19 19:18
XRevan86or rather, built with PHPDec 19 19:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proprietary Software and Openwashing []Dec 19 19:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Dec 19 19:25
r_schestowitzthey don't appear to promote github with a linkDec 19 19:35
r_schestowitzmaybe it's not even their core/main devs who put the code thereDec 19 19:35
XRevan86schestowitz: Sure they doDec 19 19:36
XRevan86schestowitz: "see the Development page for this driver"Dec 19 19:36
r_schestowitzin their site?Dec 19 19:36
r_schestowitzI did checkDec 19 19:36
r_schestowitzthey offer tarballsDec 19 19:36
XRevan86schestowitz: Above the tarballs there's a link for developersDec 19 19:37
XRevan86schestowitz: Now I've read other news and it seems it's going to be removed from the PHP sources.Dec 19 19:38
XRevan86and moved to PECL, and so development will be going elsewhere, with that elsewhere being Firebase's GitHub pageDec 19 19:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 19/12/2019: Alpine 3.11.0 and Rust 1.40.0 []Dec 19 19:44
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r_schestowitzXRevan86: :/Dec 19 20:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proton 4.11-11 Released []Dec 19 20:46
MinceR(audio:unimportant) 19 21:18
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DaemonFC[m]> ah, they did start with some retard who was responsible for parts of the worst OS design in the universeDec 19 21:31
DaemonFC[m]Strangely, Android isn't even third on the list for worst OS design of all time in a commonly used operating system. #1 on the list goes to Windows 10 and #2 goes to any version of mac and iOS.Dec 19 21:31
DaemonFC[m]It is rather depressing.Dec 19 21:31
MinceRVMS and systemd both rank above Android there :>Dec 19 21:32
DaemonFC[m]Pretty much the biggest advantage Windows has is that Intel won't tell anyone else how to do power management right.Dec 19 21:32
MinceRmicroshit deciding what can be booted on a UEFI appliance is a bigger advantage :>Dec 19 21:32
DaemonFC[m]systemd has grown to the point where it has taken over many things that the kernel was doing and is doing them worse from userspace.Dec 19 21:33
DaemonFC[m]I'm sure we haven't seen the worst of it yet.Dec 19 21:33
MinceRindeedDec 19 21:33
DaemonFC[m]Linus Torvalds is to blame for a lot of that.Dec 19 21:34
DaemonFC[m]He could reject the patches that enable some of it.Dec 19 21:34
MinceRif they didn't keep him on a leash, that isDec 19 21:35
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MinceR 19 22:56
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: Dec 19 23:22
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: what things worse.   There were a lot of things in kernel space that were done horriblely.Dec 19 23:22
oiaohmRemember cgroupv1 was how to lock kernel up by using it.Dec 19 23:23
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: its not just intel not telling on power mangement.  You have apple in their devices disconnecting the intel power management and using the t2 chip and vendors wiring the intel stuff on power managment up sometimes horrible wrong.Dec 19 23:32
oiaohmLike having the motherboard temp read like 120 C when  the board is 0 C and OC when the board is 100C.   Of course normal software at this point is totally screwed.Dec 19 23:33
oiaohmYes there are some x86 motherboard where the thermal temp is really what I just wrote.Dec 19 23:33
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: Linus has rejected a lot of patches about systemd to the Linux kernel.   But there is a problem here some of the stuff they were fixing was in fact broken to the point that any idiot thing using it slightly wrong would absolutely sure lock the kernel up./Dec 19 23:36
oiaohmcgroup v1 was fun you could give a process max CPU rights with zero IO rights resulting in a cpu core spinning on that process waiting for IO access.Dec 19 23:37
oiaohmRemember  cgroup v1 predates the systemd by a lot.Dec 19 23:38
XRevan86"the systemd" – I get that the sentence was probably restructured, but still :)Dec 19 23:39
cubexyzI think android is non-systemd yes?Dec 19 23:39
cubexyzso there's thatDec 19 23:39
oiaohmandroid is non systemd but is using cgroups more and more.Dec 19 23:40
XRevan86cubexyz: Android reinvents everything from top to bottomDec 19 23:40
XRevan86own libc, own initDec 19 23:40
cubexyzand for musl libc there is also http://getkiss.orgDec 19 23:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | KISS - KISSDec 19 23:41
cubexyzhaven't tried it yet Dec 19 23:41
oiaohmXRevan86:  might be their own init.   But its using cgroups and other Linux kernel features.Dec 19 23:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Cgroups in androidDec 19 23:42
XRevan86cubexyz: It's not fair to see that as an advantage, as if I had systemd on my Android device, I'd have more control over the boot process than I have with thisDec 19 23:42
cubexyzXRevan86, what are you using? Void Linux?Dec 19 23:43
XRevan86cubexyz: On an Android device? Android.Dec 19 23:43
oiaohmcubexyz: kiss is depending on the busybox init system that had not been updated for pidfd or cgroups yet.Dec 19 23:43
oiaohmI hope that is a yet.Dec 19 23:43
cubexyzI'd divide android into smartphone/non-smartphoneDec 19 23:44
XRevan86> Uses a package manager written in 500~ lines of POSIX shDec 19 23:44
XRevan86That doesn't sound like a feature.Dec 19 23:44
cubexyzit's a bit vague to say android device by itselfDec 19 23:44
cubexyzbut I bet people aren't replacing their OS on android devices Dec 19 23:45
XRevan86cubexyz: Even if I were to install Android on some PC, I still wouldn't call it an Android device :)Dec 19 23:45
XRevan86I put a certain meaning of having no choice into this pair of wordsDec 19 23:45
MinceRwhat if someone sold a PC with Android x86 preinstalled? :>Dec 19 23:47
XRevan86MinceR: Unless they locked it in, still no %)Dec 19 23:48
cubexyzhmmm, I wonder if anyone actually does thatDec 19 23:48
XRevan86Either intentionally or like AC100Dec 19 23:48
XRevan86> Explicitly excludes the following <…> gettext, intltoolDec 19 23:49
cubexyzpeople assume android -> smartphone, which is not always the caseDec 19 23:49
cubexyzcould be tv streamer, could be tabletDec 19 23:49
XRevan86musl has no locales, so whom did they include that for?Dec 19 23:49
XRevan86into the list that is, it's kind of a "duh"Dec 19 23:50
cubexyzhow what does the software seller support? That is a different storyDec 19 23:50
cubexyzs/how/now/Dec 19 23:50
XRevan86Also intltool is deprecatedDec 19 23:50
XRevan86cubexyz: A tablet is usually an overgrown smartphone though.Dec 19 23:51
oiaohmI remember the first telstra android phone here.Dec 19 23:51
oiaohmAndroid on true rom that was.Dec 19 23:51
oiaohmNo upgrade ever.Dec 19 23:51
cubexyztv streamer outputs to HDMI big screen TV, kind of the opposite of smartphone :)Dec 19 23:51
XRevan86> All packages are compiled from source by the package manager which automatically handles dependencies, patches, etc.Dec 19 23:51
oiaohmOuch.Dec 19 23:52
XRevan86Is this distribution actually trying to discourage people from KISS? %)Dec 19 23:52
XRevan86"worse is better" taken literally in so many waysDec 19 23:53
cubexyzand consider how many tablets, smartphones, streamers actually get repairedDec 19 23:54
cubexyzI bet almost zeroDec 19 23:54
XRevan86At least they have GitHub, amirite?Dec 19 23:54
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XRevan86 the guy behind the project takes shell scripting very seriously %)Dec 19 23:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | KISS - SoftwareDec 19 23:55
oiaohmcubexyz: Lot of the review streamers do get them repaired because they need to keep them for running compares.Dec 19 23:56
oiaohmcubexyz: vendors only provide streamers with 1 for free.   They break a screen or something its up to them to get it fixed normally by a third party.Dec 19 23:56
oiaohmIt also explains why you hear the review streamers highly pissed off when items have low repair ratings by ifix it.Dec 19 23:57
cubexyzwho sells parts?Dec 19 23:59

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