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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, August 21, 2019

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schestowitz> M$ is starting to throw its weight behind the decommoditization ofAug 21 03:33
schestowitz> GNU/Linux:Aug 21 03:33
schestowitz> Aug 21 03:33
schestowitz> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190820.084439.516831da.en.htmlAug 21 03:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.dyne.org | [DNG] .NET Core and systemdAug 21 03:33
schestowitz> Aug 21 03:33
schestowitz> That possibly explains systemd topics turning up the last few days onAug 21 03:33
schestowitz> various forums.Aug 21 03:33
schestowitzWhere else would you find .NET 'core' advocacy if not Red Hat's own sites?Aug 21 03:33
schestowitzmessage subject line: "systemd and M$"Aug 21 03:34
scientesoiaohm, hehe, old newsAug 21 03:54
scientesto #talos-workstation that isAug 21 03:55
schestowitzkaniini seems like viera is not relaying messages; I'm not sure why... (did some tests)Aug 21 04:57
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kaniiniknown knownAug 21 05:07
oiaohmschestowitz: do note on that .net core and systemd that it was in fact redhat developers who did the intergration work.   Most likely at some customers request.  Microsoft making sure they take the credit.Aug 21 05:28
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, I mentioned that aboveAug 21 05:31
schestowitzoiaohm: red hat took quite a few MSFT staff in, inc. managers!Aug 21 05:31
schestowitz(not a new issue, been pointed out for yearsAug 21 05:32
oiaohmRedhat did not take those in without reason.   Its worked to take workloads from Windows server and get them on redhat server platforms.Aug 21 05:33
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schestowitzkaniini: I like the custom background option in the pleroma UI (latest version)Aug 21 06:26
schestowitzI've moved to that (from Mastodon-like) for tuxmachines and my account. It's also less bloated.Aug 21 06:26
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-->You are now talking on #techrightsAug 21 07:15
---Topic for #techrights is TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovellAug 21 07:15
---Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012Aug 21 07:15
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schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitzElementary OS is the latest group to ditch Medium for their own blog http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127187Aug 21 07:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Elementary OS is the latest group to ditch Medium for their own blog | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:20
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitz6 Best Linux Distros for Laptops http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127186Aug 21 07:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | 6 Best Linux Distros for Laptops | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:20
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitz#Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127185Aug 21 07:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:20
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitzFive reasons Chromebooks are better than Windows laptops http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127184Aug 21 07:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Five reasons Chromebooks are better than Windows laptops | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:20
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitzProgramming: Joget Operator, Python, LibreOffice, GNOME and KDEAug 21 07:20
schestowitzhttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127183Aug 21 07:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Programming: Joget Operator, Python, LibreOffice, GNOME and KDE | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:20
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:20
schestowitzGames: Steam Play/Proton, GNU/Linux on Xbox, and UnderMineAug 21 07:20
schestowitzhttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127182Aug 21 07:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Games: Steam Play/Proton, GNU/Linux on Xbox, and UnderMine | Tux MachinesAug 21 07:21
schestowitz➬Aug 21 07:21
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schestowitzCheck prices of disks; could not beat on price what we had already found.Aug 21 08:07
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schestowitzQuite a few false alerts regarding elasticsearch cluster this past hour...Aug 21 08:17
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MrGreenFriendschestowitz, https://rudd-o.com/monopolies-of-the-mind/what-makes-microsoft-a-monopolyAug 21 09:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-What makes Microsoft a monopoly? — Rudd-O.com in EnglishAug 21 09:03
schestowitzold?Aug 21 09:04
MrGreenFriendoldie but a goodie  :)Aug 21 09:07
schestowitzis he still active in any capacity?Aug 21 09:08
schestowitzI know him from the Digg eraAug 21 09:08
schestowitzaround 2007Aug 21 09:08
MrGreenFriend i dont think he is active, but i dunnoAug 21 09:10
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Sheikh_al_Touar/status/1164076561018040322Aug 21 09:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Sheikh_al_Touar: The European Patent Office Increases Surveillance: Can’t Get Food Without Being Spied on #surveillance #privacy… https://t.co/fnq9HzOQNgAug 21 09:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Sheikh_al_Touar: The European Patent Office Increases Surveillance: Can’t Get Food Without Being Spied on #surveillance #privacy… https://t.co/fnq9HzOQNgAug 21 09:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 5 notable open source 3D printers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127188 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3ee7e2db-6aa8-476d-b077-bc2c4df09e9a]Aug 21 09:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Netrunner 19.08 – Indigo released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127189 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1698e499-6522-46e2-aa5b-76aaf27dd6d5]Aug 21 09:13
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127190 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f82dc709-f559-4d71-8efe-94906ec14d77]Aug 21 09:16
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Analysis of the state of play of Open Source policies in EU Member States http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127191 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dd0c1e68-b473-47ae-a37e-9bd38b58392a]Aug 21 09:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127192 [https://pleroma.site/objects/682d2eda-1297-4e6c-b01f-5ad8684d377b]Aug 21 10:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Sphinx, Ransomware, Webmin, YubiKey http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127193 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0cf96157-0cd5-4074-8d2d-503d071abdc4]Aug 21 10:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127194 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5126881a-1a86-4ed5-a40b-34ce6c6c82bf]Aug 21 10:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127195 [https://pleroma.site/objects/68537544-86be-41ce-823e-78d4bb12bf82]Aug 21 10:53
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 21/8/2019: Open Source POWER, Alpine 3.10.2, Netrunner 19.08 http://techrights.org/2019/08/21/open-source-power/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/cc2ce34b-68df-4427-8e27-eff83f75aae0]Aug 21 10:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127196 [https://pleroma.site/objects/08a94109-de9c-4310-8f79-9e409aca6c70]Aug 21 11:00
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: ct.js, Sin Slayers, Path of Titans, Steam and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127197 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8684d0a4-8744-4c4b-8eb3-53b5eb688c03]Aug 21 16:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Xfce 4.14 released! (Yeah, like a week ago ;)) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127198 [https://pleroma.site/objects/65743984-7340-471f-82fa-800ce9a832bd]Aug 21 16:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Mozilla #Firefox in Kazakhstan http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127199 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a8bae550-be94-4661-b813-67ee34aba891]Aug 21 16:29
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127200 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c87af8ae-b650-43bf-87b9-bd0c4ff67164]Aug 21 16:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Updates from the Document Liberation Project http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127201 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e0a3047d-5898-476d-915b-6b3b81ee3366]Aug 21 16:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #EndeavourOS | Review from an openSUSE User http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127203 #gnu #linux [https://pleroma.site/objects/c1de7ff9-4dd2-4d69-8b3b-32ae6d48bd3d]Aug 21 16:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Eclipse is Now a Module on Fedora 30 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127202 [https://pleroma.site/objects/78decb71-c3d1-4cde-a8d5-a59cf4afb376]Aug 21 16:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Latest Debian GNU/Linux Security Patch Addresses 14 Vulnerabilities, Update Now http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127204 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cd9d8f75-d974-4360-aafc-009ee23d9af4]Aug 21 16:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Patches, Security Flaws Caused by Coompiler Optimisations, Microsoft Updates Break Windows Again http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127205 [https://pleroma.site/objects/498a5c1e-d66a-426d-9ca6-aec7ff1fafdc]Aug 21 16:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introducing the XPS 13 developer edition, 9th generation http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127206 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8e29981a-d1dd-41e7-bd64-30832e76794b]Aug 21 16:58
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proprietary Browsers Released: Opera 63 and Vivaldi 2.7 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127207 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f6414f64-1405-43db-b4a3-1ea569f4bbfe]Aug 21 17:09
schestowitzkaniini: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Raptor-OpenCAPI-ComingAug 21 17:11
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schestowitzkaniini: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Raptor-OpenCAPI-ComingAug 21 17:12
schestowitzhmm.. need voice I gues....Aug 21 17:12
schestowitz needs voice, I guess....Aug 21 17:13
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM: Kubernetes/OpenShift, OpenPOWER, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux for Developers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127209 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7ceadbd6-7ae7-4930-9c83-8cfad3f4142b]Aug 21 17:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127208 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7d047d27-25b6-44c5-bf2d-26678523a19b]Aug 21 17:17
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: low-memory-monitor: new project announcement http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127210 [https://pleroma.site/objects/abd43ee8-96e1-4f28-aeb3-4b883c13626b]Aug 21 17:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Librem 5 August Update http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127211 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d5413648-0352-4cea-9c42-5980ab6815f4]Aug 21 17:29
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: AMD Publishes New RDNA Whitepaper and Mesa 19.2.0 RC1 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127212 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3762bff1-34f4-44ca-86af-864edac5c8bf]Aug 21 17:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Runtu #XFCE 18.04.3 Released, Which is Based on Ubuntu Bionic Beaver 18.04.3 LTS http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127213 "Russian localization and a set of pre-installed software," [https://pleroma.site/objects/4708d692-f375-4ce5-bfbd-224c2e182eca]Aug 21 17:33
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Datasets for Credit Risk Modeling, Qt Designer, Refactoring to Multiple Exit Points, LLVM Clang Compiler http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127214 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0a3bb0a5-154d-4141-b542-ed5ca9faf9f2]Aug 21 17:36
schestowitzXRevan86: runtu  ^^^Aug 21 17:37
schestowitzany good?Aug 21 17:37
schestowitzI only noticed it months agoAug 21 17:37
schestowitzso it must be quite new a projectAug 21 17:37
XRevan86schestowitz: It's… a very old project.Aug 21 17:37
XRevan86since 2007Aug 21 17:38
schestowitzokAug 21 17:38
schestowitznot as well known as calculate, rosa and othersAug 21 17:38
XRevan86Not really sure why it exists.Aug 21 17:38
XRevan86It's just Ubuntu with stuff on top.Aug 21 17:39
schestowitzso you don't have to click RU in the locale part of the Ubuntu installer :-)Aug 21 17:39
XRevan86I guess %)Aug 21 17:39
XRevan86Calculate is a Sabayon alternative of sorts, ROSA is a co-dependent project with OpenMandriva, ALT Linux is an independent RPM-based distroAug 21 17:40
schestowitzmsft sabotaged altlinuxAug 21 17:41
schestowitzit nearly made it into schools in permAug 21 17:41
XRevan86schestowitz: It didn't take a lot of convincing.Aug 21 17:42
XRevan86possibly it was a ruse to get them to make a discountAug 21 17:42
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2012/07/20/microsoft-corruption-russian/ http://techrights.org/2010/07/23/alt-linux-asplinux-update/Aug 21 17:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Corruption in Russia Helps Derail Migrations to GNU/Linux | TechrightsAug 21 17:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Russia Keeps Working on GNU/Linux (and Fighting Against Microsoft Corruption) | TechrightsAug 21 17:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 7 Great Linux Statistical Analysis Tools http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127215 #gnu #linux #science [https://pleroma.site/objects/7718b3f4-b83a-4563-9799-acf3018e0617]Aug 21 17:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Announcing notqmail http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127216 [https://pleroma.site/objects/85846db9-85db-42ec-a71c-b5ae1d7384a7]Aug 21 18:01
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127217 [https://pleroma.site/objects/de75024c-90ab-4a20-871c-ab0fcb1b8f04]Aug 21 18:04
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Customizable compute module and eval kit run Linux on i.MX8X http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127218 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6ae9817e-4925-4a1e-8b69-ee80b32195a0]Aug 21 18:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127219 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ca8e6dd0-4009-4d8a-99c3-b3117e4f01b7]Aug 21 18:33
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: OpenPOWER Foundation, iOS and Android Localization Tool, First Python Program, Eclipse Vert.x Spring Boot http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127220 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2ca0ec6c-eeb1-4504-8067-852404e9fbe0]Aug 21 18:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian and Ubuntu Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127221 [https://pleroma.site/objects/62c79904-51dd-42ce-b4b3-b67c632e4c40]Aug 21 18:43
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #LinuxFoundation and Intel: Confidential Computing Consortium,# OpenGL 4.6 Support For #Mesa 19.2 and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127222 [https://pleroma.site/objects/486f5e52-6e7d-40e3-a3f7-41225d751d29]Aug 21 18:47
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XRevan86scientes: Have you heard about https://crystal-lang.org/ ?Aug 21 19:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-crystal-lang.org | The Crystal Programming LanguageAug 21 19:30
scientesXRevan86, zig is better :)Aug 21 19:33
scientesit also has macros, which are a bad ideaAug 21 19:33
XRevan86They are?Aug 21 19:33
scienteszig lang does not have macrosAug 21 19:33
scientesinstead it interprets the same language at compile timeAug 21 19:33
scientesthe closest it gets to macros is "inline while"Aug 21 19:36
scienteswhich unrolls the loopAug 21 19:37
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Elementary OS is the latest group to ditch Medium for their own blog http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127223 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ccdc187f-20e3-4de1-b4f9-258e7296e8ec]Aug 21 19:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127224 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ddb59444-f964-4070-8e31-3b3f2af63f9f]Aug 21 19:56
schestowitzhttp://linuxgizmos.com/rugged-kaby-lake-u-based-iot-gateway-offers-linux-bsp/Aug 21 20:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linuxgizmos.com | Rugged, Kaby Lake-U based IoT gateway offers Linux BSPAug 21 20:00
schestowitzback doorsAug 21 20:00
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127226 [https://pleroma.site/objects/878613c4-38ec-46bf-9c88-3939c905c53c]Aug 21 20:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127227 [https://pleroma.site/objects/433389bc-37b4-42da-a7eb-388b02c3bb8b]Aug 21 20:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Touch OTA-10 Officially Released for Ubuntu Phones, Here's What's New http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/127225 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3bdf9674-1b2a-40f0-bc96-278919a8e293]Aug 21 20:07
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 21/8/2019: Dell's XPS 13, Mesa 19.2 RC1, Librem Update http://techrights.org/2019/08/21/librem-update/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/70ea0068-c41f-4404-9855-912e80500f52]Aug 21 20:26
oiaohmhttps://www.linuxfoundation.org/press-release/2019/08/new-cross-industry-effort-to-advance-computational-trust-and-security-for-next-generation-cloud-and-edge-computing/   Hmmm  this could play out as the best method to install and hide malware.Aug 21 20:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxfoundation.org | New Cross-Industry Effort to Advance Computational Trust and Security for Next-Generation Cloud and Edge Computing - The Linux FoundationAug 21 20:30
schestowitzyupAug 21 20:34
schestowitzIntel leadingAug 21 20:34
schestowitzthe ME giant :-) :-)Aug 21 20:34
schestowitzLinux Foundation, whose official spokespoerson was James Clapper's beforehandAug 21 20:36
scientesschestowitz, what?Aug 21 20:37
scientesits that Jim guyAug 21 20:37
schestowitzZemlin? No.Aug 21 20:38
schestowitzHe's the 'chief exec'Aug 21 20:38
scienteshe's not that badAug 21 20:38
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2019/05/28/lf-big-surveillance-industry/Aug 21 20:38
schestowitzscientes: could be worseAug 21 20:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux Foundation and the Big Surveillance Industry, Media Industry, Microsoft Azure | TechrightsAug 21 20:38
schestowitzbut he's not good, eitherAug 21 20:38
scientesI didn't say thatAug 21 20:38
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2019/08/14/linux-foundation-chief/Aug 21 20:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Wrong Person in Charge of the Linux Foundation (and in Charge of Linus Torvalds) | TechrightsAug 21 20:39
scientes>  lacks actual background in… LinuxAug 21 20:39
scienteswell duhAug 21 20:39
schestowitzlike a Ford CEO... riding a ToyotoAug 21 20:39
schestowitzToyotaAug 21 20:39
scienteswell he never seemed very competentAug 21 20:40
scientesbut that's why we have LinusAug 21 20:40
schestowitzhe thought about becoming a cookAug 21 20:40
schestowitzafter the companies he worked at failedAug 21 20:40
scientesso?Aug 21 20:40
schestowitzinstead he became "Torvalds' boss"Aug 21 20:40
scientesI worked as a dishwasherAug 21 20:40
schestowitzSo did IAug 21 20:40
schestowitzBut the point is, he has no stellar record... in Linux or anythingAug 21 20:41
scienteswell that seemed obviousAug 21 20:41
schestowitzhe's a marketer and hipsterAug 21 20:41
schestowitzit's a problemAug 21 20:41
scientesbut that isn't the point of the LFAug 21 20:41
scientesthe point is to be a tax-deductable 501 c 6Aug 21 20:41
schestowitznoAug 21 20:42
schestowitznot reallyAug 21 20:42
schestowitzit was standard-settingAug 21 20:42
schestowitzthen other thingsAug 21 20:42
schestowitzcheck their historyAug 21 20:42
scientesit has produced decent stuffAug 21 20:42
scienteslike standardizing the AUXVAug 21 20:42
scientes(although on power the standard isn't followed....)Aug 21 20:42
scientesbecause it sucksAug 21 20:43
scienteshow do you avoid burnout?Aug 21 20:43
scientesI need more friendsAug 21 20:43
scientesboth tech and non-techAug 21 20:44
scientesalso, when money is involved it kinda poisons the whole affair for meAug 21 20:44
scientesbeing professional is hardAug 21 20:44
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schestowitzscientes: http://techrights.org/2019/08/15/professionalism-myth/Aug 21 20:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Myth of ‘Professionalism’ | TechrightsAug 21 20:50
scientesi'm not talking about thatAug 21 20:52
scientesi'm talking about Ethics and IndependenceAug 21 20:52
schestowitzI know what you meantAug 21 20:52
schestowitzbut I wrote it a few days ago, so that came to mindAug 21 20:52
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scienteswhen you work dishwashing you don't have to thinkkAug 21 20:53
scientesbut when you work as a "professional" you have to be responsible for your outputAug 21 20:53
schestowitzdishwashers tooAug 21 20:53
scientesI really do not like the "community guidelines" that have sprung upAug 21 20:53
schestowitzbad work results in complaints tooAug 21 20:53
scientesschestowitz, yes, you have a pointAug 21 20:54
scientes"professionalism" is there tooAug 21 20:54
scientesbut to me the dividing line of a professional is that you have to define your own job, and know what to doAug 21 20:54
scientesor at the very least know what to doAug 21 20:54
scientesbut I guess dentists don't really have to do thatAug 21 20:54
scientesthat said, in Peru dentists only require an appretishipAug 21 20:55
schestowitzI bet they get paid poorly, tooAug 21 20:56
schestowitzand the service isn't too goodAug 21 20:56
scientesI got good serviceAug 21 20:56
schestowitzI get some dental cleaning in Asia, where it's cheapAug 21 20:56
schestowitzso cheap that it's a shame not to take advantage of when you're there, even when it's not much-neededAug 21 20:57
XRevan86In Kazakhstan?Aug 21 20:57
scientesheheAug 21 20:57
scientesTajikistanAug 21 20:57
scientesI knew a Tajik in the USAug 21 20:58
scientesspoke Russian but not PersianAug 21 20:58
scientesschestowitz, if you haven't been to SA you wouldn't understandAug 21 20:59
scientesbut its probably quite similar in SE AsiaAug 21 20:59
XRevan86scientes: Not terribly surprising.Aug 21 21:00
scientesI wonder if my Bulgarian friend speaks RussianAug 21 21:00
scientesI never asked himAug 21 21:00
XRevan86scientes: … unlikelyAug 21 21:00
XRevan86scientes: Cool that they got that far away. It's a poor country.Aug 21 21:01
scienteshe escaped during the USSRAug 21 21:01
scienteswent to Sophia UniversityAug 21 21:01
XRevan86scientes: ah, that makes more senseAug 21 21:01
XRevan86(I mean the Tajik)Aug 21 21:01
scientesyeah I should have asked howAug 21 21:02
scientesbut that was after the collapseAug 21 21:02
XRevan86I don't think there're many that get farther than Russia.Aug 21 21:03
scientesI've met quite a few Russians in the USAug 21 21:03
scientesthe less educated ones tend to keep to themselves, construction and speaking Russian for exampleAug 21 21:04
scientesbut there are also the highly educated ones, which are always quite interestingAug 21 21:04
XRevan86Oh no, I keep to myself!]Aug 21 21:04
XRevan86scientes: Construction?Aug 21 21:05
scientesconstruction is good work in the US, its also great for those without papersAug 21 21:06
scientesbut Russians probably mostly have papersAug 21 21:06
XRevan86scientes: "I don't think there're many that get farther than Russia." – I mean Tajiks of course and people from other less fortunate ex-USSR countries.Aug 21 21:07
scientesI met a Romanian that worked as a high up engineer for peruvian miningAug 21 21:07
XRevan86In Russia they mostly go into construction or bus driving, etc.Aug 21 21:08
scientesdated a girl with two romanian engineer parentsAug 21 21:08
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scientesahh yes, i've heard construction is looked down on in RussiaAug 21 21:08
XRevan86I doubt they're payed enough to make it viable to get farther.Aug 21 21:08
XRevan86scientes: Construction is screwed up in Russia on many levels.Aug 21 21:08
scientesI've done it in the US, and it isn't that badAug 21 21:09
scientesnever on a big job howeverAug 21 21:09
scientesand there is also union construction in the USAug 21 21:09
scienteswhich pays very wellAug 21 21:09
scientesconstruction is fun work as long as safety is consideredAug 21 21:10
XRevan86scientes: Okay, okay, I get it %).Aug 21 21:10
XRevan86scientes: Russia is nothing like that.Aug 21 21:10
scientesyeah I read about the Tajik immigrant status stuffAug 21 21:10
scientesand the amnestyAug 21 21:11
XRevan86scientes: When I walk past construction barracks erected for temporary living near the construction site, I feel like those depressed "whites" on Mastodon.Aug 21 21:11
scientesoh yeah i also saw a video about North Korean workers in RussiaAug 21 21:12
oiaohmhttps://www.anandtech.com/show/14750/hot-chips-31-analysis-inmemory-processing-by-upmem   Hmm this could add extra problem to those attempting to encrypt ram.Aug 21 21:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.anandtech.com | Hot Chips 31 Analysis: In-Memory Processing by UPMEMAug 21 21:12
XRevan86I have a solid roof, meanwhile in 100 metres there are people who get by with plywoodAug 21 21:13
scientes> or floating point operations should be done while the memory is still in DRAMAug 21 21:13
scientesbullshitAug 21 21:13
scientesI only see XOR making any senseAug 21 21:13
scienteswell yeah in Peru you have the nice houses built with standards, and then the houses pieced together with bricks and hand-mixed concreteAug 21 21:14
scientesand usually half finished with rebar showingAug 21 21:14
scientesand even then, SIMD on these chips mean that XOR and such is quite fastAug 21 21:16
scientesand will get much faster with the new serial memory interfaces comingAug 21 21:16
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XRevan86scientes: You don't get it, those aren't real houses. "barracks" is me not doing it justice.Aug 21 21:16
scientesthat offload the DDR stuffAug 21 21:16
scientesI've lived in a tent for extended periodsAug 21 21:16
scientesbut yeah if those have electricity its kinda dangerousAug 21 21:17
XRevan86not sure about thatAug 21 21:17
scienteswhen it rainsAug 21 21:17
scientessorry, I'm from somewhere where it rains all the timeAug 21 21:17
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XRevan86And I live in the "Northern Venice" (:Aug 21 21:18
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scienteswhat a weird comparisonAug 21 21:18
XRevan86https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_of_the_North one of many, hahAug 21 21:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Venice of the North - WikipediaAug 21 21:18
scientesdoesn't it freeze?Aug 21 21:18
oiaohmscientes: I would suspect those pim chips will be stuck to basic interger and bit operationsAug 21 21:18
XRevan86scientes: It makes more sense historically. Peter the First wanted to make canals the main way of transportation.Aug 21 21:19
scientesoiaohm, it still seems like a stupid idea if you do more than xorAug 21 21:19
scientesespecially considering that memory bandwidth will improove with the new memory chipsAug 21 21:19
scientesXRevan86, yeah, but how does that work when it freezes over?Aug 21 21:19
XRevan86scientes: The plan was later scrapped, but it still shows.Aug 21 21:19
oiaohmscientes: its more number of threads.Aug 21 21:19
XRevan86scientes: I don't know, skiing? :DAug 21 21:19
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XRevan86or rather skatingAug 21 21:20
XRevan86(were skates invented back then?)Aug 21 21:20
scientesof course they wereAug 21 21:21
scientesyou just need steelAug 21 21:21
scientesits the inline roller skate that is super newAug 21 21:21
XRevan86scientes: But also boots good enoughAug 21 21:21
scientesyeah skate are def. industrialAug 21 21:21
scientesunlike skisAug 21 21:21
scientesI wonder when my ego will settle, and I won't have such a problem with working as I am having nowAug 21 21:22
scientesI've been getting stuff, buts its a grindAug 21 21:22
oiaohmscientes: basic add and subtract in integer is not that complex of a circuit.   Why I said basic bit and basic interger could kind of work.   There are a lot of work loads like dna processing that are really a crap tone of interger work. Aug 21 21:23
scienteslike I proved that I could do that work, and now I'm struggling cause I don't know what I'm provingAug 21 21:23
XRevan86scientes: Sounds like burnoutAug 21 21:24
scienteswell, what's the cure for burnout?Aug 21 21:25
oiaohmscientes: really frozen canals  thinking northern areas that travel on frozen rivers.Aug 21 21:25
scientestoday and yesterday I swam 3 km eachAug 21 21:25
oiaohmscientes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_road there are quite a few places that do use ice roads.Aug 21 21:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Ice road - WikipediaAug 21 21:26
oiaohmIn some ways they are really cheap they get by forces of nature resurfaced every year.Aug 21 21:26
scientesIf I just finish this current job I can certainly go on a camping/fishing tripAug 21 21:26
XRevan86scientes: Heck if I know. Vacation, new exciting challenges, invested colleagues…Aug 21 21:31
XRevan86a worthy cause maybeAug 21 21:31
scientesI haven't burned out on the excercise of language studiesAug 21 21:31
scientes*orAug 21 21:31
scientes> a worthy causeAug 21 21:32
XRevan86scientes: I bet excercise feels goodAug 21 21:32
XRevan86scientes: And I bet language studies stimulate the brain in all the right ways (:Aug 21 21:32
scientesits great when you are super hungry after 3 kmAug 21 21:32
scientesXRevan86, although I really miss reading a good (English) bookAug 21 21:32
scientesI haven't figured out where the poorest people sleepAug 21 21:36
scientesI should have asked that Argentinian man yesterdayAug 21 21:36
scienteshe would have known. He said he has been traveling for 4 years after his wife diedAug 21 21:36
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*XRevan86 tried to run an SQL query in an online checker in OracleDB and MSSQL.Aug 21 22:36
XRevan86It appears that MSSQL is the absolute worst.Aug 21 22:37
XRevan86The query: SELECT EXTRACT(DAY FROM (CURRENT_TIMESTAMP - TIMESTAMP '1970-01-01 00:00:00'))Aug 21 22:38
XRevan86MSSQL doesn't understand this timestamp literal and the EXTRACT field.Aug 21 22:39
XRevan86Both present in the SQL/Foundation part of the SQL:2011 standard.Aug 21 22:39
XRevan86Earlier today I was annoyed that MariaDB/MySQL couldn't handle it either, as instead of an INTERVAL, as SQL:2011 prescribes, it outputs an abomination in form of an integer.Aug 21 22:41
XRevan86Such a simple query and so much to learn from it %)Aug 21 22:41
XRevan86> SELECT CURRENT_DATE - DATE '1970-01-01';Aug 21 22:43
XRevan86  490720Aug 21 22:43
XRevan86^ MariaDB/MySQLAug 21 22:43
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scientesXRevan86, i ran into that in Android Google mapsAug 21 22:45
scientes2038 problemAug 21 22:45
XRevan86I didn't even touch the 2038 problem %)Aug 21 22:45
scientesoh i seeAug 21 22:45
scientesthats horribleAug 21 22:45
scienteswell i guess with leap seconds unix time is just as badAug 21 22:45
scientesoh wait unix time ignores leap secondsAug 21 22:45
scienteswell since you used epochAug 21 22:45
scientesi though that is what you were talking aboutAug 21 22:46
scientes<XRevan86> > SELECT CURRENT_DATE - DATE '1970-01-01';Aug 21 22:46
XRevan86UNIX_TIMESTAMP() in MariaDB/MySQL is also prone to the year 2038 problem, by the way.Aug 21 22:46
scientes<XRevan86>   490720Aug 21 22:46
scientesso it just gives you a random date?Aug 21 22:46
scienteslike that should be 1, right?Aug 21 22:46
schestowitzit's all easy in retrospectAug 21 22:46
scientesyeah gcc now takes 64-bit unix timeAug 21 22:46
scientesso you don't have to mess with such thingsAug 21 22:46
schestowitzrequirements were different when they came up with this standatdAug 21 22:46
XRevan86scientes: I guess it takes both dates as integers and subtracts them.Aug 21 22:47
scientesthen it could be fixed by allowing 64-bit unix timeAug 21 22:47
scientes*64-bit signed unix timeAug 21 22:47
schestowitzduring the Cold War they probably didn't think we'd make it to 2038Aug 21 22:47
scientesheheheAug 21 22:47
scientesschestowitz, the US still thinks the Cold War is...cold???Aug 21 22:48
XRevan86$ echo $((20190822 - 19700101))Aug 21 22:48
XRevan86490721Aug 21 22:48
XRevan86this looks familiarAug 21 22:48
scientesmost people can't get over their (already warped) perceptions of the USSRAug 21 22:48
scientesXRevan86, oh godAug 21 22:48
scientesare you kidding me?Aug 21 22:48
scientesI guess it isn't that badAug 21 22:50
scientesexcept that you have to use hardware division to parse it...........Aug 21 22:50
scienteswhich was already a bad idea in 1980Aug 21 22:50
scientesor whenever they decided thatAug 21 22:50
XRevan86I only checked SQL:2011, but it clearly states a result of subtraction of two timestamps is an intervalsAug 21 22:51
XRevan86intervalAug 21 22:51
XRevan86scientes: Well, that means that one *has to* use DATEDIFFAug 21 22:51
XRevan86or TIMESTAMPDIFF, etc.Aug 21 22:51
scientesand have to learn the turning-complete SQLAug 21 22:52
scientes(only if you use stored queries, which is not universally supported)Aug 21 22:52
XRevan86Because unlike ISO SQL, MariaDB/MySQL will spew this out.Aug 21 22:52
scienteslike ruby on rails is famous for abstracting SQL awayAug 21 22:53
XRevan86And wait, there's more!Aug 21 22:53
XRevan86scientes: Check this:Aug 21 22:53
XRevan86> SELECT EXTRACT(YEAR FROM (CURRENT_DATE - DATE '1970-01-01'));Aug 21 22:53
XRevan862049Aug 21 22:53
scientesbrilliant!Aug 21 22:53
*scientes had no idea SQL had time handling featuresAug 21 22:54
scientesyou probably should just use a s64Aug 21 22:54
scientesi64Aug 21 22:54
scientesand store unix timeAug 21 22:54
XRevan86In proper SQL there shouldn't even be a year part.Aug 21 22:55
scientesalthough when you have 64-bit its tempting to store nanosecond unix timeAug 21 22:55
XRevan86Since it's supposed to be a day-time interval.Aug 21 22:55
XRevan86scientes: Well, the simplest mitigation is to use MySQL-specific functions.Aug 21 22:56
XRevan86and the datetime type is not prone to Y2038Aug 21 22:56
scientesjust write a migration to convert it all to unix time....Aug 21 22:56
scientesneither is 64-bit unix time (second or nanosecond)Aug 21 22:56
XRevan86And the TIMESTAMP keyword is actually implicitly datetime, not timestampAug 21 22:57
scientesoh godAug 21 22:57
scienteswhen x isn't xAug 21 22:57
XRevan86> SELECT TIMESTAMP '2039-01-01 12:00:00';Aug 21 22:57
XRevan862039-01-01 12:00:00Aug 21 22:57
scientesbut seriously, you should just avoid all those stupid typesAug 21 22:58
scientesexcept maybe for like a super-modern 2d coordinates types or something Aug 21 22:58
scientesbut then you would be using a specialied non-RDBS anywaysAug 21 22:59
scientesthere was a cool like i read last week on special computers for graph databasedAug 21 22:59
scientesbecause cpu cache doesn't really make any sense with such algorithmsAug 21 22:59
XRevan86scientes: It's not that bad. And yes, I did this to have a portable way to convert to unix time.Aug 21 22:59
scientesI mean, I think glibc can even do greogorian/julian conversion on 64-bit unix timeAug 21 23:00
XRevan86UNIX_TIMESTAMP is used in GNU social in 4 rarely used places. I wanted to replace it with something that would work everywhere.Aug 21 23:01
XRevan86I kind of failed in that, since the achieved "should work everywhere" doesn't work everywhere.Aug 21 23:01
XRevan86but it also takes one line less than a switch 'pgsql' || 'mysql' || default, so I think I'll keep itAug 21 23:02
XRevan86if 'mysql' TIMESTAMPDIFF else EXTRACT DAY + … + EXTRACT SECONDAug 21 23:03
XRevan86https://paste.debian.net/hidden/dfad72df like thisAug 21 23:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-paste.debian.net | Debian PastezoneAug 21 23:04
XRevan86scientes: Shouldn't unix time be calendar-independent?Aug 21 23:08
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XRevan86I'd consider epoch to start on 1969-12-18 00:00:00 in the Julian calendar.Aug 21 23:10
XRevan86leap seconds are a lot more tricky, since unix time is supposed to just tick every second since epochAug 21 23:19
XRevan86but it kind of doesn'tAug 21 23:19
XRevan86And calendars… just convert Gregorian epoch to your calendar of choiceAug 21 23:20
XRevan86Except that leap seconds get in the way of that too %). Tricky.Aug 21 23:23
XRevan86scientes: Can glibc account for leap seconds that do not occur in the Julian calendar?Aug 21 23:23
XRevan86I don't have a strong preference between PostgreSQL and MariaDB, but in terms of which one supports ISO SQL better, it's definitely PostgreSQL.Aug 21 23:26
scientesXRevan86, there are no leap seconds in unix timeAug 21 23:27
scientesSo it sounds like construction is better in Peru than RussiaAug 21 23:27
XRevan86scientes: unix time unsees a secondAug 21 23:27
XRevan86scientes: when converting to another calendar, it has to be reseenAug 21 23:27
scientescorrectAug 21 23:28
scientesbut calendars do not have leap secondsAug 21 23:28
XRevan86Even when MariaDB is in SQL_MODE=ANSI, it's still less conforming.Aug 21 23:28
XRevan86scientes: I thought it's a Gregorian thing.Aug 21 23:28
scientesthe babalonian is strictly 24*60%60Aug 21 23:28
scientestime is strictly a Babylonian thingAug 21 23:28
scientesthe calendars only deal with daysAug 21 23:29
scientes(and Jewish and Islamic, if you can call the Islamic purely lunar one a calendar, calendars have the day start at sun-downAug 21 23:29
XRevan86One can explain this non-conformance away with legacy and compatibility, which I think is valid. But… why is it like this? PostgreSQL is just as old.Aug 21 23:29
scientesI mean did 7th century Arabia not even have agriculture?Aug 21 23:30
scientesIn Peru from what I see construction is very similar to the US---they even use all the English words, and clearly some of them have US construction experienceAug 21 23:31
scientesand public transportation is so good it can workAug 21 23:31
scientesand it should stay (return) to 24 60 60, and instead just switch to leap hoursAug 21 23:33
scientesbecause time zones make solar time already a long gone conclusionAug 21 23:33
scientesthe only people that use solar time anymore are astronomers and muslimsAug 21 23:34
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