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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, November 22, 2019

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable kernels 5.3.12, 4.19.85, and 4.14.155 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130779 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f0d1094e-6cd4-4266-86c2-52e8a161b81f]Nov 22 01:15
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: PHP 7.4 Performance Benchmarks Show A Nice Improvement - But PHP 8.0-dev Is Running Even Faster http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130780 [https://pleroma.site/objects/95dcbab1-73d9-4073-907e-694f820c12cd]Nov 22 01:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130781 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1b3c18f4-4060-495a-ad25-09be9f2b2e0e]Nov 22 01:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: More #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130783 [https://pleroma.site/objects/67aa8917-fa99-48f4-bde9-f8a6d4ee85dd]Nov 22 01:20
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: A Look At The GCC Compiler Tuning Performance Impact For Intel Ice Lake http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130782 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8849b0f6-bd1f-48bc-bc45-a6eafbcb9a78]Nov 22 01:22
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 10 Best Linux Video Editing Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130784 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d0941422-7666-403e-b8f8-da81d0a70298]Nov 22 01:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Half-Life: Alyx, Serial Cleaner, BATTLETECH Heavy Metal http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130785 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e1bf15ff-78ce-4ee1-b43c-7c67ade030aa]Nov 22 01:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Python and Wasm http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130786 [https://pleroma.site/objects/06a39e27-6e45-406e-9c81-ba16ed6ca4f8]Nov 22 02:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10+ Best Linux Wallpaper Changer Software in 2019 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130787 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3c0b5a3b-ef65-48ca-82ea-0d879d82aa08]Nov 22 02:10
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DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Amazon sells "BMW" motor oil.Nov 22 02:13
DaemonFC[m]$15 a quart.Nov 22 02:13
DaemonFC[m]That's the same price as 5 quarts of GM dexos-certified full synthetic.Nov 22 02:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Snapcraft secret sauce: KDE neon extension http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130788 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cec0d820-5651-405d-bdd6-a2434672a7c1]Nov 22 02:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasting with OBS Studio on Wayland http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130789 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f2cdd63f-e781-4ec0-a9df-3352ebb88192]Nov 22 02:33
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Growth of Kubernetes http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130790 [https://pleroma.site/objects/08274d2f-6843-4a24-8c38-fee5203c6a9a]Nov 22 02:40
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Yocto-based Torizon distro adds OTA updater http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130791http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130791 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f6d77278-0042-4b6c-bff5-0e2bb110c6ae]Nov 22 02:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE/GNOME Events: Linux Applications Summit and KDE e.V. board meeting in Berlin http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130792 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5bec3439-d6be-48f9-85a9-a5c5d7a45ce0]Nov 22 02:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Patches, Firefox and Webmin http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130793 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6aa2125c-ed9c-4718-a421-94b4a30992a1]Nov 22 02:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos and programming bits http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130794 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b00a39d8-3fce-4828-998f-b4847900a30c]Nov 22 03:11
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scientesI got these cherry preserves at the store here, and it turns out it has all the pits still included!Nov 22 04:03
danielp3344funNov 22 04:03
scientesgeniusNov 22 04:04
oiaohmscientes: https://www.baking-sense.com/2015/07/02/cherry-pit-ice-cream/Nov 22 04:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.baking-sense.com | Cherry Pit Ice Cream - It tastes like marzipan! - Baking SenseNov 22 04:09
scientesoiaohm, when life gives you lemons?Nov 22 04:12
oiaohmscientes: due to having a lemon tree we get lots of lemons every year.Nov 22 04:48
oiaohmscientes: sometimes it a problem to work out what todo with them all.Nov 22 04:49
oiaohmCherry pit there is in fact quite a few different recipes for them.Nov 22 04:49
oiaohmscientes: https://www.bonappetit.com/recipes/article/how-to-use-stone-fruit-pits   there is a basic set of universal reciepts for items like pits.Nov 22 04:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bonappetit.com | How to Use Stone Fruit Pits | Bon AppétitNov 22 04:51
oiaohmSome people wonder why someone would want pits in and it is that you need them for particular recipesNov 22 04:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows/Screencasts: Destination Linux, Linux Headlines and Oracle Linux 8.1 Overview http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130795 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9c184cb7-55fe-47f9-8327-c61efaffc42a]Nov 22 05:07
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pCopcUE8U0V7HU5eyNov 22 05:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://pleroma.site/notice/9pCopcUE8U0V7HU5ey )Nov 22 05:08
schestowitz"Nov 22 05:08
schestowitzYou might want to add this discussion to your #deletegithub wiki:Nov 22 05:08
schestowitzhttps://github.com/netblue30/firejail/issues/2895Nov 22 05:08
schestowitz"Nov 22 05:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-leave Github · Issue #2895 · netblue30/firejail · GitHubNov 22 05:08
schestowitzpassed on to the page's maintainerNov 22 05:11
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schestowitz> M$ integrating with GMail raises issues of problems with both privacyNov 22 07:21
schestowitz> and reliability.Nov 22 07:21
MinceRhttps://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/08/30/3a74f738a9205657.jpgNov 22 07:38
oiaohmschestowitz: on the privacy stuff I have been thinking how does coppa effect hosted open source games targeted at those under 13.Nov 22 07:41
oiaohmI think coppa enforcement could get really interesting as it expands out.Nov 22 07:45
MinceRhttps://ircz.de/p/19092326Nov 22 07:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectNov 22 07:52
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130797 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0833d63d-873a-4af7-8092-7a775222a5b9]Nov 22 09:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Bauh – Manage Snaps, Flatpaks and AppImages from One Application http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130796 [https://pleroma.site/objects/70b2d5dc-40c2-4dfb-a410-6376559f5f6b]Nov 22 09:43
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130798 [https://pleroma.site/objects/011fe8e6-5688-4ef0-b1bd-eaa297bb0f5d]Nov 22 09:47
XRevan86https://meduza.io/en/news/2019/11/21/navalny-s-anti-corruption-foundation-sues-vladimir-putin https://zona.media/news/2019/11/22/tvrskfbkNov 22 10:12
XRevan86"Accepting this lawsuit would violate the core principles of power separation on the territory of Russian Federation"Nov 22 10:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLENov 22 10:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-zona.media | Суд отказался принять иск ФБК к ПутинуNov 22 10:13
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat: CDC, CodeReady and EPEL http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130800 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4c54a6a3-a9b4-4af4-8416-6328d40c8304]Nov 22 10:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130801 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1122c06b-e84f-4c90-b402-41e828a943bb]Nov 22 10:40
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Foundation and Openwashing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130802 [https://pleroma.site/objects/daf502d8-6cdb-4444-ac2c-590464053136]Nov 22 10:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Devices: Wi-Fi, Vecow, Arduino, Ghidra for Firmware Deciphering http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130803 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bfd5685b-2e30-42f3-9931-643232a1fb5b]Nov 22 10:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Free Software and Proprietary Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130804 [https://pleroma.site/objects/935a8052-ffec-430c-99be-aa737614f0eb]Nov 22 10:55
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130805 [https://pleroma.site/objects/840dd333-0459-411e-a231-53aedeb26024]Nov 22 10:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130806 [https://pleroma.site/objects/02eb5506-d5b2-4e06-a8fe-e121704acb59]Nov 22 10:58
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 22/11/2019: Slimbook’s GNU/Linux Laptops, Kubernetes Hype http://techrights.org/2019/11/22/kubernetes-hype/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/1d4b7b31-4457-4379-b557-0c6947239e7f]Nov 22 11:32
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-->You are now talking on #techrightsNov 22 11:52
---Topic for #techrights is TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovellNov 22 11:52
---Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012Nov 22 11:52
scientesI saw some Syrian migrants here in GeorgiaNov 22 11:53
scientesXRevan86, that looks like big newsNov 22 11:53
scientesanyone that sues Putin must have a good reason to do so (I said reason, not evidence)Nov 22 11:54
scientesand that article was not clearNov 22 11:54
scientesis he suing Putin in his professional capacity, or personally?Nov 22 11:54
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XRevan86scientes: as a foundationNov 22 11:55
scientes"Navalny said the FBK considers Putin to have ordered the fabrication of those charges and is now seeking to obligate him to defend the group’s constitutional rights."Nov 22 11:55
scientesthat article sucksNov 22 11:56
scientesit doesn't list the complaints, the law that is being offended, or the remedy soughtNov 22 11:57
scienteshttps://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/11/20/russian-feminist-activist-faces-porn-charges-for-running-vagina-monologues-art-group-on-social-mediaNov 22 11:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLENov 22 11:57
scientesgranted, the vagina monologues is really stupidNov 22 11:57
scientesI've been to a performance of it beforeNov 22 11:57
XRevan86scientes: "the law that is being offended" – by whom?Nov 22 11:58
scientesby PutinNov 22 11:59
scientesto have a case you have to claim that a law was brokenNov 22 11:59
scientesor that you suffered some injuryNov 22 11:59
XRevan86scientes: Violation of the constitutionNov 22 12:01
scientesbut what part of the constitution?Nov 22 12:01
XRevan862, article 80Nov 22 12:01
scientesand it doesn't say that "breaking his oath to upload the constitution"Nov 22 12:01
scientesthen why is that not in the article?Nov 22 12:02
scientesI'm just saying that article sucks ballsNov 22 12:02
scientesand I don't think it sucking balls was not on purposeNov 22 12:02
XRevan86scientes: Yes, it does.Nov 22 12:02
scientessorry, that is stupid slangNov 22 12:02
XRevan86mi komprenis vinNov 22 12:02
scientesthere is no 2 80 http://www.constitution.ru/en/10003000-01.htmNov 22 12:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.constitution.ru | The Constitution of the Russian FederationNov 22 12:03
scientes2. The President of the Russian Federation shall be guarantor of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, of the rights and freedoms of man and citizen. According to the rules fixed by the Constitution of the Russian Federation, he shall adopt measures to protect the sovereignty of the Russian Federation, its independence and state integrity, ensure coordinated functioning and interaction of all the bodies of state power.Nov 22 12:04
scientesahhhNov 22 12:04
XRevan86yesNov 22 12:05
XRevan86Anyway, it all doesn't matter as Putin is immuneNov 22 12:05
scientesnobody is immuneNov 22 12:06
scientesbut it is a very political actNov 22 12:06
scientesso as I said, I want to know the reasonNov 22 12:07
scientesBut in La Paz there were stupid posters everywhere for the pro-US candidate "Have hands are clean"Nov 22 12:07
scienteswhich is so childishNov 22 12:07
scientes*"My hands are clean"Nov 22 12:07
XRevan86"Accepting this lawsuit would violate the core principles of power separation on the territory of Russian Federation", – said in the court, adding "demands cannot be given to the president of the RF within an administrative case"Nov 22 12:08
scientesthat's kinda irreleventNov 22 12:08
scienteswithout knowing what the allegations are and remedy soughtNov 22 12:08
scientes"My hands are clean."<-- about as close as you can get to libel, without actually being libelNov 22 12:09
XRevan86scientes: Have you heard of the "FBK case"?Nov 22 12:10
XRevan86https://meduza.io/en/news/2019/10/15/russian-police-carry-out-another-round-of-nationwide-raids-against-oppositionist-alexey-navalny-s-officesNov 22 12:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLENov 22 12:11
XRevan86FBK accepts donations, that's its main source of income, as a result it's accused of money laundering.Nov 22 12:11
scientesoh geezeNov 22 12:11
scienteswhy is Russia still a bunch of feudal warlords?Nov 22 12:12
XRevan86That gave "law enforcement" a carte blanche to raid their offices and homesNov 22 12:12
XRevan86An eldery woman died as they tried to scare her up.Nov 22 12:12
scientesthat's how they act to Georgia tooNov 22 12:12
XRevan86because her son works at the FBKNov 22 12:12
XRevan86That's one of the reasons for the lawsuit: violation of the sanctity of homeNov 22 12:13
scientesyeah, that is a good oneNov 22 12:13
scientesyou cant just march into people's houses without first writing up the reasons and getting warrantNov 22 12:14
XRevan86That's also the most direct, everything else is more… cumulative.Nov 22 12:14
XRevan86Like systemic violation of union rightsNov 22 12:14
scientesthat names the reasons and the people and things to be siezedNov 22 12:14
XRevan86they also routinely steal stuffNov 22 12:14
scientesI've had the police in the US arrest me without charge and steal all my stuffNov 22 12:15
scientesand release me without clothesNov 22 12:15
XRevan86during a raidNov 22 12:15
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scientesthey drug me out of my tent, if that counts as sanctity of home :)Nov 22 12:16
XRevan86I actually don't understand the reason why it's impossible to sue Putin.Nov 22 12:16
scientesthe real offense however, was calling up my dad and being all creepyNov 22 12:16
XRevan86is there some other procedure to do so?Nov 22 12:16
scientesits in the Bill of Rights, the 4th amendmentNov 22 12:17
scientes>     The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2] Nov 22 12:17
scientesthat's actually a pretty clear procedureNov 22 12:18
XRevan86scientes: Well, maybe it's because it was a tent indeed.Nov 22 12:18
XRevan86here they can literally cut your door openNov 22 12:18
scientesXRevan86, that doesn't excuse stealing someone's property without charging then with any crimeNov 22 12:18
scientesand depriving me of liberty without due process of lawNov 22 12:19
scientesbut the US Constitution has no guarantee of health care, so in the modern day its kinda a farceNov 22 12:19
scientesand these rights are mostly in amendmentsNov 22 12:19
scientesbecause even them were seen as potentially subversiveNov 22 12:20
scientesthere are only a few in the constitution properNov 22 12:20
scienteslike bills of attainerNov 22 12:20
XRevan86thugs with insigniaNov 22 12:20
scientesthugs is rightNov 22 12:20
scientesthey also beat me when i tried to make them drag me in jailNov 22 12:20
scientesto get me to walkNov 22 12:20
scientesbecause making this sort of abuse expensive is the best course of actionNov 22 12:21
scienteshttp://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-meat-generation.htmlNov 22 12:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cluborlov.blogspot.com | ClubOrlov: The Meat GenerationNov 22 12:21
scientes> Therefore, it is possible to think of ways to make yourself too expensive for them to exploit, so that they might give up on trying to use you for further self-enrichment and leave you in peace.Nov 22 12:22
XRevan86Here they can beat you even if you don't resistNov 22 12:22
scientesI wasnt resistingNov 22 12:22
scientesbeing limp is not the same thing as resistingNov 22 12:22
XRevan86I mean, don't even try to make their actions harderNov 22 12:22
XRevan86as beating can be pre-emptiveNov 22 12:23
scientesMost jailers here will just carry limp prisonersNov 22 12:23
scientes*in USNov 22 12:23
scientes(I'm not in US anymore)Nov 22 12:23
XRevan86And then sue you as you broke a police officer's legNov 22 12:23
scientesbut as I said, I saw some syrian migrantsNov 22 12:23
XRevan86with your ribNov 22 12:23
XRevan86(it's a real case)Nov 22 12:24
scientesyeah, I had that happen to meNov 22 12:24
scientesclassic thugismNov 22 12:24
scientesI also tried to submit to the court a list of complaints for the recordNov 22 12:24
scientesand they refuse to awknowledge my existanceNov 22 12:24
XRevan86scientes: This seriously sounds like my motherlandNov 22 12:25
scientesI also tried to call a church, asking them to bring my list of complaints to submit for the recordNov 22 12:25
scientesand they refused to get involvedNov 22 12:25
XRevan86church?Nov 22 12:25
scienteswell, I am not in the US anymoreNov 22 12:26
scientesit isn't that I am afraid of them, it is that I would have had to pay more taxes if I was in the USNov 22 12:26
scientesand I fear the tax man moreNov 22 12:26
scientesthis was all in my list of complaintsNov 22 12:26
XRevan86In Russia they just send you a cheque.Nov 22 12:27
XRevan86a bill that isNov 22 12:27
scientesalso, in this court they don't even arrain you--they say the penal code (and not the name of that code, just the number)Nov 22 12:28
scientesand they also get it all confusedNov 22 12:28
scientesthey couldn't get their story straight, and I got 5 differn't charges on why I was being heldNov 22 12:28
scientesAND the prosecuter's charge was differn't from the defense attourney's chargeNov 22 12:29
*XRevan86 wondered about "motherland" and "fatherland" and opened https://dictionary.com/e/motherland-vs-fatherlandNov 22 12:29
scientesand was from a differn't stateNov 22 12:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-When To Use Motherland vs. Fatherland - Everything After Z by Dictionary.comNov 22 12:29
XRevan86> The people of some countries have historically personified their country in feminine ways. To them, their home country is (in translation) the motherland. For example, a common personification of Russia is Mother Russia (Matushka Rosa).Nov 22 12:29
XRevan86I wonder why that's the perception.Nov 22 12:29
scienteshttps://www.dictionary.com/e/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/motherland.jpgNov 22 12:30
XRevan86As there's a much more direct word: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/отечествоNov 22 12:30
scientesPolandNov 22 12:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | отечество - WiktionaryNov 22 12:30
XRevan86scientes: darkNov 22 12:30
scientesXRevan86, veryNov 22 12:30
XRevan86It's interesting how well their explanations translate to RussianNov 22 12:36
XRevan86> Even in English in fatherland can convey patriotic connotations.Nov 22 12:36
XRevan86So is "отечество", it's the more patriotic wordNov 22 12:37
XRevan86while "родина" has more of a "home" connotation, like in "вернуться на родину" (~ I came back home)Nov 22 12:38
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zoobabUPC proponents seems to say it will go through in GermanyNov 22 13:58
cybrNautUPC?  Universal Product Code?Nov 22 14:28
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, an oil change at a BMW dealer is now $180.Nov 22 14:44
DaemonFC[m]Then they tell you to drive on it for 20,000 miles, which is going to cause sludging issues on anything.Nov 22 14:44
DaemonFC[m]My general take on oil changes and stuff is, if you're out of warranty anyway, do what makes sense for your bank account.Nov 22 14:45
DaemonFC[m]Of course, nothing makes sense about buying a BMW.Nov 22 14:45
DaemonFC[m]But long term, 20,000 mile oil changes are a marketing scam.Nov 22 14:46
DaemonFC[m]You may say, "Well, why would they scam you and say you can drive 20,000 miles? Wouldn't they sell less oil?". Of course they will, but if their claim gets you to buy THEIR oil and pay triple for it, then it doesn't matter.Nov 22 14:46
DaemonFC[m]The devil is in the details.Nov 22 14:47
DaemonFC[m]On the back of the bottle it says be sure to use an extended drain oil filter, one of theirs of course, and to never go more than a year without changing it anyway.Nov 22 14:48
DaemonFC[m]So 12 months later, you drain it out and maybe you only drove 10,000 miles.Nov 22 14:48
zoobabUnitary Patent CourtNov 22 14:48
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cybrNautahNov 22 15:24
cybrNautDaemonFC[m]: i thought all new BMWs included gratis services for 5 years or something.. no?Nov 22 15:27
cybrNautand of course when the gratis service runs out, then it makes sense to do your own oil changesNov 22 15:27
DaemonFC[m]My sister in law bought the really expensive plan that includes them changing the oil and turning off the service light for an extra $3,000.Nov 22 15:30
DaemonFC[m]But she did have to pay for it.Nov 22 15:30
DaemonFC[m]My service light came on after I got my oil change saying change oil.Nov 22 15:33
cybrNauthmm.. i thought it was included.  maybe that changedNov 22 15:33
DaemonFC[m]I had to go through the messing with buttons thing because it just comes on every several thousand miles and I just got it changed with full synthetic.Nov 22 15:33
DaemonFC[m]So it's just the guy forgot to turn it off.Nov 22 15:33
cybrNautanyway, i'm not bothered by car drivers getting price-gouged.  Ppl need incentives to stop driving carsNov 22 15:33
DaemonFC[m]You do not have to get your oil changed at the dealer to keep your warranty.Nov 22 15:34
DaemonFC[m]Although they would prefer that you assumed that.Nov 22 15:34
DaemonFC[m]The Chevy dealer charges $50 for a "synthetic blend" and a 2011 or newer can't even use that.Nov 22 15:35
DaemonFC[m]The warranty requires dexos-certified oil, which only comes in full synthetic.Nov 22 15:35
cybrNautconsidering the $180 price tag, ppl will probably investigate rather than assumeNov 22 15:35
DaemonFC[m]It was $90 to change oil on a newer Chevy at the dealer because it requires synthetic.Nov 22 15:36
DaemonFC[m]It's like $40-50 at a shop.Nov 22 15:36
DaemonFC[m]"Angie's List" said they called around and it was "averaging" $60-80 for full synthetic. I'm like, "Yeah, those places that only do oil changes really hit you up because there's no money makers except those useless services they offer you every time you go.".Nov 22 15:38
DaemonFC[m]The "Fast Lane" place in Gurnee charges $80 for a Mobil 1 oil change and filter.Nov 22 15:38
DaemonFC[m]The stuff is $30 for a 5 quart jug and a filter at Auto Zone.Nov 22 15:38
DaemonFC[m]And the Fast Lane isn't using jugs. They by it 100 gallons at a time, and get several of those containers on a shipment.Nov 22 15:39
DaemonFC[m]So they're probably in it for no more than $20 per car.Nov 22 15:39
DaemonFC[m]Anything more than $50 at the shop is a complete rip off.Nov 22 15:40
DaemonFC[m]If you go to an actual mechanic, they can charge less for oil changes because they have other business.Nov 22 15:40
DaemonFC[m]I've literally gone to check out used cars where the car was falling apart and I said, "Where have you been servicing it?" and they pull out a stack of Jiffy Lube receipts.Nov 22 15:41
DaemonFC[m]It just wastes my time. Maybe someone else wants to pay for your mess where you "changed the oil once a year whether it needed it or not", but I don't.Nov 22 15:42
DaemonFC[m]They think keeping the receipts makes the car more valuable, but if all they have for documentation is they took the car to Jiffy Lube now and then, you run.Nov 22 15:42
DaemonFC[m]Carfax is funny. Some of them will say "I have a Carfax.".Nov 22 15:46
DaemonFC[m]Well, it can be interesting, but they don't hear about everything. Nov 22 15:46
DaemonFC[m]I went to look at that 2002 Ford Ranger that was obviously no good.Nov 22 15:47
DaemonFC[m]I looked at the Carfax. It had 4 accidents that Carfax knew about.Nov 22 15:47
DaemonFC[m]It wasn't even the same owner that got into all four accidents.Nov 22 15:47
DaemonFC[m]4 different owners had it and 3 of them got into the four accidents.Nov 22 15:48
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MinceRhttps://gcemetery.co/google-product-lifespan/   (javascript) http://stadiacountdown.com/Nov 22 16:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gcemetery.co | Average product lifespan of Google products before It kills them | The Google CemeteryNov 22 16:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stadiacountdown.com | Google Stadia: The CountdownNov 22 16:15
MinceRhttps://ircz.de/p/19092258Nov 22 16:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectNov 22 16:40
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MinceRhttps://twitter.com/Dailypurrr/status/1197870942111690752Nov 22 17:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Dailypurrr: mood https://t.co/tXIKpD27CQNov 22 17:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Dailypurrr: mood https://t.co/tXIKpD27CQNov 22 17:26
XRevan86MinceR: Way too accurate.Nov 22 17:30
MinceR:>Nov 22 17:30
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DaemonFC[m]Richard Stallman said he chose not to have children.Nov 22 19:20
DaemonFC[m]I'm guessing that he's an incel and just doesn't want to admit it.Nov 22 19:20
MinceRnow you showed himNov 22 19:22
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DaemonFC[m]https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=incelNov 22 19:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.urbandictionary.com | Urban Dictionary: incelNov 22 19:24
MinceRi know what it meansNov 22 19:24
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DaemonFC[m]Stallman chimed in that fucking animals, corpses, and 12 year olds was perfectly fine.Nov 22 19:24
DaemonFC[m]Even though nobody actually brought it up.Nov 22 19:25
MinceRbut this is especially strange to hear from someone who also chose not to have children :>Nov 22 19:25
DaemonFC[m]I'm married to a man and we're broke.Nov 22 19:25
DaemonFC[m]So my plate's full already. I'm not insisting that I have the right to rape people and stuff. Nov 22 19:26
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DaemonFC[m]Stallman has had girlfriends and he never says what happened that they all left him.Nov 22 19:27
DaemonFC[m]But it seems he gave up on it back in the 80s.Nov 22 19:27
DaemonFC[m]Judging from his "commentary", I'd probably vomit and then leave too.Nov 22 19:27
MinceRdo you have a link to rms insisting that he has the right to rape people?Nov 22 19:31
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schestowitzGuest34040: 0/Nov 22 19:33
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schestowitz[19:24] <DaemonFC[m]> Stallman chimed in that fucking animals, corpses, and 12 year olds was perfectly fine.Nov 22 19:34
schestowitzwhere?Nov 22 19:34
schestowitzseems made upNov 22 19:34
schestowitzhe once or twice remarked on some Dutch political partyNov 22 19:34
jgaywell those first two are somewhat accurate. but you really should know thatNov 22 19:35
schestowitzwhat's the context?Nov 22 19:35
jgay https://stallman.org/articles/extreme.htmlNov 22 19:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stallman.org | "Extreme Pornography"Nov 22 19:37
schestowitzI remember those debates in the Uk re censorship and criminalisationNov 22 19:38
schestowitzyes, this is what he wrote aboutNov 22 19:38
schestowitznot read this yetNov 22 19:38
schestowitzbut there's the question about whether it's simulated, like faked rape or faked necroNov 22 19:39
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schestowitzand whether you make the filming or the watching a crimeNov 22 19:39
*schestowitz reading the page nowNov 22 19:39
schestowitzI see...Nov 22 19:39
jgay there are other quotes less obscured by contextNov 22 19:40
schestowitzit's like that Australian The Simpson thingNov 22 19:40
MinceR[not in citation given]Nov 22 19:40
schestowitzwhether a cartoon of Maggie was shown having sexNov 22 19:40
schestowitzand they tried t o convict for "posesssion"Nov 22 19:40
schestowitzof a cruse cartoonNov 22 19:40
MinceRoh, "the first two"Nov 22 19:40
schestowitzit's a race to the bottom, same for manga etc.Nov 22 19:40
jgayBradley Kuhn provides a list of links, one link per word showing an escalation on RMS part "In fact, RMS' views and statements posted on stallman.org about sexual morality escalated for the worse over the last few years." http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2019/10/15/fsf-rms.htmlNov 22 19:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ebb.org | On Recent Controversial Events - Bradley M. Kuhn ( Brad ) ( bkuhn )Nov 22 19:41
schestowitzeither way, it's about another way to selectively enforce new lawsNov 22 19:41
schestowitzover sex "something"Nov 22 19:41
schestowitzpassing, possessing, shootingNov 22 19:41
schestowitzIIRC, UK wasnted to make possession of porn with simulated rape or choking etc. a crimeNov 22 19:41
jgayRMS makes clear elsewhere he sees no problem with non-abusive beastiality Nov 22 19:41
schestowitzit's a tricky one, I'm against that myselfNov 22 19:42
schestowitzbut if you start making "possession" too a crime, then it's one more thing people can fling into your mail box to frame youNov 22 19:42
schestowitzand that may even include carttoon stuffNov 22 19:42
schestowitz*cartoonNov 22 19:43
schestowitzit's a slippery slopeNov 22 19:43
schestowitzI suppose trans sex too would be a crimeNov 22 19:43
schestowitzbut the so-called "ethics" movement is now the oppositNov 22 19:43
MinceRabrahamics are afraid of sex, therefore all sex is a crimeNov 22 19:43
schestowitzas NOT accepting trans is a social crimeNov 22 19:43
schestowitzso one t thing BADNov 22 19:43
schestowitzanother GOODNov 22 19:43
MinceR"morality"Nov 22 19:43
schestowitzand who decided? Who knows...Nov 22 19:44
schestowitzso I can sympathise with the above page as far as the danger of over-enforcement foesNov 22 19:44
schestowitz*GoesNov 22 19:44
schestowitzhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdozY0LjwLoNov 22 19:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Porn Habits Collected By NSA - YouTubeNov 22 19:44
schestowitzhttps://www.informationng.com/2013/11/top-secret-leak-nsa-spied-on-online-prn-habits-of-muslim-radicals.htmlNov 22 19:44
schestowitzand so on...Nov 22 19:45
schestowitzBBC covered it alsoNov 22 19:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.informationng.com | TOP-SECRET LEAK: NSA Spied On Online P*rn Habits Of Muslim Radicals - Information NigeriaNov 22 19:45
schestowitzthey're using porn as a weaponNov 22 19:45
schestowitzYou might be law-abidingNov 22 19:45
schestowitzbut if you're Muslin and watch porn, they'll 'cancel' youNov 22 19:45
schestowitz(any porn)Nov 22 19:45
jgayBut it doesn't matter anymore what kind of public activism RMS chooses to focus on since he isn't causing problems for one movement/org while doing the otherNov 22 19:45
schestowitzand for other groups they can use cultural sensititvitiesNov 22 19:45
schestowitzjgay: you won't agree 100% of the time with anybodyNov 22 19:46
schestowitznot even your spouse, jgayNov 22 19:46
schestowitzso we know some things we and RMS don't agree onNov 22 19:46
schestowitzand there are plenty we do agree onNov 22 19:46
schestowitzmind you, not accepting some law is OKNov 22 19:46
schestowitzlaws changeNov 22 19:46
jgaySure. But it doesn't matter nowNov 22 19:47
schestowitzhomosexuality is still a crime in some placesNov 22 19:47
schestowitzused to be here tooNov 22 19:47
schestowitzand to change society we must permit people to not accept (but still obey) some lawsNov 22 19:47
schestowitzlike me and some patent lawsNov 22 19:47
schestowitzjgay: doesn't matter 'coz you lot 'canceled RMS?Nov 22 19:47
schestowitzhis weird views on underage sex are not even new Nov 22 19:48
jgayit only mattered when it significantly negatively impacted the organizations and communities he acted as a paid spokesperson for and whom he had employment and other kinds of agreements withNov 22 19:48
schestowitzin MIT he got in trouble for something elseNov 22 19:48
schestowitzhe has long complained about misuse of the term "assault"Nov 22 19:48
MinceRhttps://ircz.de/p/19072366Nov 22 19:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectNov 22 19:48
schestowitz(which is an insult sometimes to those who were literally assaultedNov 22 19:48
schestowitzjgay: tough luck, nobody is perfectNov 22 19:49
schestowitzme and you neither...Nov 22 19:49
MinceRthen everybody will be cancelledNov 22 19:49
schestowitzyes, for SOMETHINGNov 22 19:50
schestowitzsome people can try to "cancel" me... for something THEY don't agree withNov 22 19:50
jgayWith MIT he did something as part of a pattern that was damaging to those in the community so the community complained and his response was not to be receptive or respectful or caring but to simply leaveNov 22 19:50
schestowitzmight be my criticism of IslamNov 22 19:50
schestowitzor of IsraelNov 22 19:50
schestowitzor of BidenNov 22 19:50
schestowitzor my support for WikileaksNov 22 19:50
schestowitzwhich many people are "SURE" is "RUSHAN FRONT"Nov 22 19:50
schestowitzjgay: well MIT continues to "cancel" peopleNov 22 19:51
schestowitzfor 'wrongthink"Nov 22 19:51
schestowitzand that's NOT something to be celebratedNov 22 19:51
jgaywith the FSF he did similar things. A pattern he was confronted on time and time again and then instead of engaging in a respectful and empathetic or sympathetic and respectful manner he chose to leaveNov 22 19:51
MinceRand the cancelled people can hang out with each other and create stuff that worksNov 22 19:51
schestowitzthey are making scared, confrormist profsNov 22 19:51
MinceRwhile the SJWs can be stuck with their systemd/Hartmanux :>Nov 22 19:51
schestowitzi.e. the sopposite of what we wantNov 22 19:51
schestowitzhey, jgay :-)Nov 22 19:51
schestowitzyou "pirate" youNov 22 19:52
jgayit is not like RMS didnt have troves of people to help him navigate a difficult socio political situationNov 22 19:52
schestowitzyou ran a campaign against DRMNov 22 19:52
schestowitzHow DARE  you challenge DMCA and copyright LAW? :-)Nov 22 19:52
schestowitzThe copyright giants could try to 'cancel' you tooNov 22 19:52
jgayhe chose to not ask for help but to just stand his ground and be stubborn  Nov 22 19:52
schestowitzand 7 Sins, Bad Vista..Nov 22 19:52
jgayit was his choiceNov 22 19:52
schestowitzhe thought differentluNov 22 19:53
schestowitzcommitted no crime afarkNov 22 19:53
schestowitz'thoughtcrime'Nov 22 19:53
jgayI was less focused on the 7 sins. PlayOgg, defective by design, brick nintendo were the ones I took the lead onNov 22 19:53
schestowitzor saying things that MIGHT help something 'rationalise' somethingNov 22 19:53
schestowitzby that standard, all politicians would be removed from OfficeNov 22 19:54
jgayothers i was more secondaryNov 22 19:54
schestowitzsome people disliked you for itNov 22 19:54
schestowitza lot even Nov 22 19:54
jgaysure and rms wasn't criminalized Nov 22 19:54
schestowitzpeople you and I do not socialise withNov 22 19:54
jgayi would have protested in the streets if he wereNov 22 19:54
schestowitzhow would you like it if someone made a formal complaintNov 22 19:54
schestowitzYou'd want us to stand up for you, no?Nov 22 19:54
schestowitzFor standing for some moral causeNov 22 19:54
schestowitzand we'd defend youNov 22 19:55
jgayif the state came at me? sure if it made sense Nov 22 19:55
schestowitzbut just mention sex and bamNov 22 19:55
schestowitzAl FrankenNov 22 19:55
schestowitzBill ClintonNov 22 19:55
jgaylike if it seemed like an unfair power move of the state against a citizen or an injusticeNov 22 19:55
schestowitzWeinerNov 22 19:55
schestowitzit's always something "sex"Nov 22 19:55
schestowitzscandals are OK, like TrumpsNov 22 19:55
schestowitzTrump'sNov 22 19:55
schestowitzuntil something expresses a view on something sexNov 22 19:56
schestowitzand RMS did not even do those thingsNov 22 19:56
schestowitzhe spoke philosophically about themNov 22 19:56
schestowitzmeanwhile, Gates was fucking around with EpsteinNov 22 19:56
schestowitzand nobody even made a call for him to be arrested or inevstigatedNov 22 19:56
schestowitznothingNov 22 19:56
schestowitzbecause it's about power and  connectionsNov 22 19:56
XRevan86schestowitz: Should that be taken literally?Nov 22 19:57
schestowitzand it just shows what a sick social stratosphere we have nowNov 22 19:57
MinceRgates is rich enough to be a saint of the Church of the Almighty MoneyNov 22 19:57
MinceRso he's allowed to do whatever he pleasesNov 22 19:57
schestowitzXRevan86: I can be more graphic, but that might offend somethingNov 22 19:57
jgayit isbt just talkNov 22 19:57
schestowitzXRevan86: think along the likes of, X likes to watch Y do somethingNov 22 19:57
jgayisntNov 22 19:57
XRevan86schestowitz: Oh, finally a proper reason to use the modern Internet slang word "cuck"Nov 22 19:58
XRevan86(is it modern? can't tell)Nov 22 19:59
XRevan86> English usage first appears about 1250Nov 22 19:59
XRevan86okay, slightly not modernNov 22 20:00
schestowitzI still am not sure what this and kek meanNov 22 20:00
schestowitzI know what kike means and whyNov 22 20:00
schestowitzBut it's usually the same types of people who use all three wordsNov 22 20:01
XRevan86https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckold#Cuckoldry_as_a_fetishNov 22 20:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Cuckold - WikipediaNov 22 20:01
XRevan86schestowitz: "kek" is gaming slang for "hah"Nov 22 20:02
XRevan86comes from KoreanNov 22 20:02
MinceRi thought it was gaming slang for "lol"Nov 22 20:03
MinceRor altReich slang for "lol"Nov 22 20:03
XRevan86MinceR: It's much older than altReichNov 22 20:03
schestowitzalmost nobody would use the term except the Pepe crowdNov 22 20:03
XRevan86but I understand it that they like it, probably picked it up on imageboardsNov 22 20:03
schestowitzand we know what Pepe the Frog now commonly symbolises, against the wishes of the original caricaturist Nov 22 20:04
XRevan86schestowitz: Hong-Kong protesters? :)Nov 22 20:04
MinceRhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7GmW5pk97MNov 22 20:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Eric Andre kills compilation - YouTubeNov 22 20:05
schestowitznot sure about in east asia tNov 22 20:05
schestowitztheir culture is different and images alsoNov 22 20:05
schestowitzswastikas in India can be interpreted as peaceNov 22 20:06
XRevan86schestowitz: I've seen Pepe around in Russophone Internet for many years.Nov 22 20:06
schestowitzjgay: I've read that page furtherNov 22 20:07
schestowitzhe makes some controversial points, but it's not put as crudely as DaemonFC[m] put itNov 22 20:07
schestowitzso that was a gross oversimplification, would need to see other examples...Nov 22 20:08
schestowitzBy those standards, even Nietzsche would be 'cancelled'Nov 22 20:08
XRevan86https://youtu.be/li_tsRvn3NY (thumbnail: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/li_tsRvn3NY/maxresdefault.jpg)Nov 22 20:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ОН ВАМ НЕ ДИМОН SHOOTING STARS - YouTubeNov 22 20:10
XRevan86> kekhub; PepeNov 22 20:10
XRevan86combo?Nov 22 20:10
schestowitzif free as in freedom and free software also means "free speech", then we need to grow a pairNov 22 20:10
schestowitzoh, sorry, did I offend most of the population, which doesn't have a pair??Nov 22 20:10
schestowitzam I allowed to use that phrase or is that too offensive?Nov 22 20:11
XRevan86Parts of the FBK's video on Medvedev's corruption with running Medvedev inserted with music over it; altReich?Nov 22 20:11
schestowitz(women two have a pair, but it is inside the body in the reproductive system, up the birth canal)Nov 22 20:11
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: On stallman's blog I recall reading that he said having sex with a corpse doesn't produce a victim so it should be legal.Nov 22 20:12
DaemonFC[m]And that if someone has sex with an animal, as long as it doesn't mind it doesn't matter. Nov 22 20:12
schestowitzlack of quality ammo against RMS was 'compensated' for by quantity of low-quality low-tolerance "I'm offended' type of things...Nov 22 20:12
DaemonFC[m]He posts too much stuff to link to.Nov 22 20:12
DaemonFC[m]But he's been saying shit like this.Nov 22 20:12
schestowitzdoesn't mean he did itNov 22 20:13
schestowitzit might shock you, but...Nov 22 20:13
schestowitzin some countries people literally shag goatsNov 22 20:13
schestowitzand legally I thinkNov 22 20:13
DaemonFC[m]In some states, it's legal.Nov 22 20:14
schestowitzsome people fly  from Western Europe to those countries specifically to shag animalsNov 22 20:14
DaemonFC[m]In Illinois it isn't, but porn involving it is legal.Nov 22 20:14
schestowitzI don't think it's OK, it is objectionable imhoNov 22 20:14
DaemonFC[m]Although the person in the video might be incriminating themselves if they did it in Illinois, obviously. Nov 22 20:14
schestowitzbut to deny the debate altogether about all sorts of issues including slavery would take us nowhereNov 22 20:14
schestowitzthere used to be arguments FOR slaveryNov 22 20:15
schestowitzthose arguments were lost in most countries in favour of abolitionNov 22 20:15
schestowitzbut now we're not even allowed to mention to PRO-slavery argumentsNov 22 20:15
DaemonFC[m]There was a meme several years ago about how you couldn't marry another man in Kentucky, but fucking a horse was legal.Nov 22 20:15
schestowitzas it's "too offensive"Nov 22 20:15
schestowitzif you ban the debates you cement things... like a religionNov 22 20:15
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, it got someone's attention, because Kentucky added a bestiality law making it a felony shortly after that.Nov 22 20:15
DaemonFC[m]Well, obviously, no criminal records are good, but a misdemeanor is survivable.Nov 22 20:16
schestowitzdid you see how pig breeding is done?Nov 22 20:16
DaemonFC[m]It's really hard to live with a felony on your record. Doesn't matter what it was.Nov 22 20:16
schestowitzliterally a man sticking them into one anotherNov 22 20:16
schestowitzand artificial insemination of cows ain't too pretty eitherNov 22 20:17
schestowitzand humans do these thingsNov 22 20:17
schestowitzsticking things in animals' 'things'Nov 22 20:17
DaemonFC[m]Virginia is notorious for having lots of "wobblers".Nov 22 20:17
schestowitzeven machinesNov 22 20:17
schestowitzagainst these animals' willNov 22 20:17
DaemonFC[m]Those are crimes that can be charged as felonies or misdemeanors.Nov 22 20:17
schestowitzyou could call that animal rapeNov 22 20:18
DaemonFC[m]Prosecutors take those and say "If you plead guilty, we'll call it a misdemeanor.".Nov 22 20:18
XRevan86And I think we've established that altReich can appropriate absolutely anything.Nov 22 20:18
schestowitzbut it's done in the context of milk farming or "meat farming" (slaughter), so we treat it as banalNov 22 20:18
DaemonFC[m]I think that wobblers should be unconstitutional.Nov 22 20:18
DaemonFC[m]There's really no arguing that the purpose is to do an end run around due process by charging less serious crimes as felonies if the defendant doesn't say he's guilty.Nov 22 20:19
DaemonFC[m]The whole point of the felony/misdemeanor setup is the seriousness of the offense. Nov 22 20:20
DaemonFC[m]The problem with having "severe misdemeanors" and "low grade felonies" is that the line starts to blur.Nov 22 20:20
DaemonFC[m]For example, assault with a knife can be a misdemeanor or a felony depending on who the victim is at that point.Nov 22 20:20
DaemonFC[m]So if the victim isn't a "protected class", it's a Class A Misdemeanor.Nov 22 20:21
DaemonFC[m]Well, every apartment complex in this region says you can't rent from them if you've had a misdemeanor aggravated assault conviction in the past year.Nov 22 20:21
DaemonFC[m]It's practically boilerplate policy.Nov 22 20:21
DaemonFC[m]So, people are going to run like hell from having that on their record even though it's still a misdemeanor.Nov 22 20:22
DaemonFC[m]So the prosecutor still has pressure points he can exploit.Nov 22 20:22
DaemonFC[m]He can say, "Eh, we'll call it a disorderly conduct. You can explain that. You probably won't even have to because all kinds of things can be disorderly conduct.".Nov 22 20:22
DaemonFC[m]"Maybe you were just drunk on a park bench."Nov 22 20:23
DaemonFC[m]Loitering, public drunkenness, mutual combatancy....Anything.Nov 22 20:24
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DaemonFC[m]I found a case in Pennsylvania where someone stopped at a 7/11 to microwave a bag of fake piss to try to cheat a probation drug test they had to do next door.Nov 22 20:24
DaemonFC[m]The owner called the police and they got charged with disorderly conduct for microwaving fake piss at 7/11.Nov 22 20:25
schestowitzlolNov 22 20:25
schestowitzanything to make business for the mass incarceration millsNov 22 20:25
schestowitzaka 'panel industry'Nov 22 20:25
schestowitzhow much do they charge per minute for a call now?Nov 22 20:25
schestowitzmore than wankers' hotline, that's for sureNov 22 20:26
*XRevan86 opened a random protest Russian video: https://youtu.be/j3dtgR7oqMI?t=532Nov 22 20:26
XRevan86Meh, just Dolan. Although… maybe Dolan is racist? Who knows?Nov 22 20:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-#ДимонОтветит г.Новосибирск 26 марта 2017 митинг против коррупции - YouTubeNov 22 20:26
DaemonFC[m]Prison? They usually charge it as a collect call to whoever the prisoner is calling.Nov 22 20:26
DaemonFC[m]Like $4 a minute.Nov 22 20:26
DaemonFC[m]Mom's ex, Gonad, had a daughter who was always calling us from jail.Nov 22 20:26
DaemonFC[m]I'd hear "You have a collect phone call from an inmate at the Huntington County Jail...." and hang up the phone.Nov 22 20:27
DaemonFC[m]She got arrested again one time on a Friday and I hung up on her, and she ended up spending the weekend in jail because there was nobody at the office where you post bail. :)Nov 22 20:27
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DaemonFC[m]schestowitz She ended up doing a year anyway because she's an idiot.Nov 22 20:29
DaemonFC[m]Turned out that a cop was following her because she was married to a drug dealer, and when he pulled her over, there was a joint on the passenger seat and a bottle of urine for a probation drug test that she got from one of her kids.Nov 22 20:30
DaemonFC[m]Well, first off, they may or may not know you're on probation when they pull you over.Nov 22 20:31
DaemonFC[m]So if she hid the stuff, she probably would have gone home instead of being arrested.Nov 22 20:31
schestowitzif she was not high, no worriesNov 22 20:32
schestowitzjust don't drive stoned or drunkNov 22 20:32
schestowitzas that can literally kill people other than uouNov 22 20:32
schestowitzyouNov 22 20:32
DaemonFC[m]She tried telling them that "a friend" left the joint in her car.Nov 22 20:32
schestowitzinside or outside the vehicleNov 22 20:32
DaemonFC[m]Like that was going to work.Nov 22 20:32
schestowitzoverpolicing what people put in their bodies distracts from bigger issues in societyNov 22 20:32
schestowitzrolled up leavesNov 22 20:33
schestowitzthat she did not smokeNov 22 20:33
schestowitzif she was sober while driving, waste of police time and resourcesNov 22 20:33
schestowitzgo to Wall StreetNov 22 20:33
DaemonFC[m]Well, yeah, but the law is the law.Nov 22 20:33
schestowitzarrest some banksters insteadNov 22 20:33
DaemonFC[m]So if you're going to break the law, hide it better.Nov 22 20:33
DaemonFC[m]That's what I was getting at.Nov 22 20:33
DaemonFC[m]Like, how hard is it to toss a joint under the seat?Nov 22 20:34
schestowitzlaws changeNov 22 20:34
DaemonFC[m]At literally any point...Nov 22 20:34
schestowitzdrug laws are controversial for a good reasonNov 22 20:34
schestowitzrich people also take drugs, they get away with it betterNov 22 20:34
schestowitzand they use some expensive drugs that are class symbol/statusNov 22 20:34
schestowitzthey have driversNov 22 20:34
schestowitzso they can 'drive' drunkNov 22 20:34
schestowitzjust tell the butler to wipe up when they throw up at the passengers' seatNov 22 20:35
schestowitzthe laws don't mean much if you accept even borderline onesNov 22 20:36
schestowitzlike those US states are not even consistent onNov 22 20:36
schestowitztoday I saw 3 articles about pot stocks going upNov 22 20:36
schestowitzdue to decriminalisationNov 22 20:36
schestowitzthat's just todayNov 22 20:36
schestowitzthen you have the likes of jgay trying to finish people for merely >debating< PROPOSED lawsNov 22 20:37
schestowitzwhich are controversial and IIRC were not passed successfullyNov 22 20:37
schestowitznot in their original form anywayNov 22 20:37
schestowitzso we can bully those who express dissentNov 22 20:37
schestowitzand then pass these awful lawsNov 22 20:37
schestowitzbecause critics are afraid to speak out... 'got a mortgage to pay etc etc"Nov 22 20:38
schestowitz(women got arrested for asking to vote)Nov 22 20:39
schestowitz(black men lunched for asking to... well, not be 'owned' by some white 'master')Nov 22 20:39
schestowitz(oiaom says CoC are "the law", so it's OK for kubecon to ban people who vote Republican)Nov 22 20:42
DaemonFC[m]Well, it shouldn't be controversial to simply argue the case in front of the public and let them decide.Nov 22 20:44
DaemonFC[m]Oh, Indiana had to clarify its marijuana law because so many people use CBD now, which isn't even intoxicating.Nov 22 20:45
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DaemonFC[m]So Indiana has a law now that clarifies that CBD is legal as long as it's less than 0.3% THC, because the police were busting people for CBD under "marijuana" law.Nov 22 20:45
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DaemonFC[m]It was ridiculous. So ridiculous that when the news reported it, the law changed a couple of weeks later.....in Indiana....the state where you couldn't buy beer on Sunday until last year.Nov 22 20:46
schestowitzeventually they'll make it so that only large corporations can make it "legal"Nov 22 20:46
schestowitzand people growing or brewing their own things and cannot be taxed are "pirates" or "drug lords" or somethingNov 22 20:47
schestowitzopioids fine Nov 22 20:47
schestowitztrust the Big BusinessNov 22 20:47
schestowitzthe police will :-)Nov 22 20:47
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schestowitzjgay: have memberships at FSF gone up or down since RMS left?Nov 22 20:57
schestowitzyou say he was a liability to the image of the orgNov 22 20:58
schestowitzso surely you (well, they) had an upsurge in membership when he left.. (being facetious here in case it's not obvious)Nov 22 20:59
schestowitza controversial head figure can be less harmful than a soulless, undefined org.... lots of examples to that efffectNov 22 21:01
MinceRmaybe ibm pays more now? :>Nov 22 21:03
schestowitzfirst they need to gas RMSNov 22 21:04
schestowitzand appoint someone darker or with different genitalia, based on their press releaseNov 22 21:04
schestowitzthey got RMS "marked" on their nazi censusNov 22 21:05
schestowitz"canceled'Nov 22 21:05
cybrNautTrump manages to keep his approval ratings up by being a scumbagNov 22 21:05
schestowitz'saved'Nov 22 21:05
schestowitzgassed and crematedNov 22 21:05
schestowitzcybrNaut: they're lowNov 22 21:05
MinceRhe got elected by being a scumbagNov 22 21:06
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MinceRby a minority, but stillNov 22 21:06
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cybrNauti heard support for the impeachment just dropped by 5%, despite all the copious evidence against himNov 22 21:06
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schestowitzcybrNaut: that's not approval ratingNov 22 21:07
schestowitzalso, depends what questions are askedNov 22 21:07
schestowitzlike Rassumuson.. would ask some lies and compare apple and orangesNov 22 21:07
DaemonFC[m]It trended upwards and then it came back down a little, but it's like 56%.Nov 22 21:08
schestowitztrump approval rates are abysmal not on in trumpland but in the whole US empire aka "the world" (sans "axis of evil")Nov 22 21:08
DaemonFC[m]For Clinton, approval for the impeachment was only in the 30s and it still went through.Nov 22 21:08
schestowitzhe's also unpopular in so-called 'axis of evil'Nov 22 21:08
schestowitzi.e. among both allies and 'enemies' (not controlled  by US... yet)Nov 22 21:09
MinceRonly the citizens of trumpistan get to vote, thoughNov 22 21:09
MinceRso approval ratings outside it don't matterNov 22 21:09
DaemonFC[m]Well, it's like someone asking if I approve of Justin Trudeau. Who cares?Nov 22 21:09
DaemonFC[m]I can't vote in Canada.Nov 22 21:09
schestowitzit matters for diplomacyNov 22 21:11
schestowitzTrump has a weak position with allies and foesNov 22 21:11
MinceRhttps://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/11/02/ad3019646c66a7fb.pngNov 22 21:11
schestowitzObama and other clowns at least established the Iran dealNov 22 21:11
schestowitzalso ended some tensions with CubaNov 22 21:11
schestowitzthose are OK thingsNov 22 21:11
schestowitzTrump made more enemies and severed existing strategic alliancesNov 22 21:12
DaemonFC[m]https://www.classaction.org/lenovo-yoga-laptop-lawsuitNov 22 21:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Lenovo Yoga Screen Lawsuits | Flicker, Freeze, Black | ClassAction.orgNov 22 21:13
schestowitzMake 'America' (US) small again.. and isolated... and poorNov 22 21:15
schestowitz(sorry, they measure the "economy" based on the wealth of those who loot the rest of the population)Nov 22 21:15
jgayyes there was a rebound in membership when rms left. i don't know details or if it went above how much they lostNov 22 21:16
schestowitzthey don't tell Nov 22 21:16
schestowitzwe'll see when the IRS filings for 2019 come outNov 22 21:16
jgayschestowitz: the thing you keep doing tho is weird. you turn it into this more removed sort of political thingNov 22 21:17
schestowitzFSF is politicalNov 22 21:17
jgaylike removed from the people he is in close physical proximity of or granted exclusive communication channels withNov 22 21:17
schestowitzgnu more technicalNov 22 21:17
schestowitzfsf does advocacyNov 22 21:17
schestowitzand it is political in natureNov 22 21:17
jgaythat isnt what i am speaking ofNov 22 21:17
MinceRwill the FSF finally stop claiming systemd is free software?Nov 22 21:18
schestowitzit isNov 22 21:18
jgayi am talking about communities of people that rely on each other in real ways to carry out workNov 22 21:18
schestowitzbut it's a new TYPE of hackNov 22 21:18
schestowitzor workaround, tackling the 4 freedomsNov 22 21:18
jgaylike employers, coworkers, or close collaborators Nov 22 21:18
schestowitzlike openwashing etc.Nov 22 21:18
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Librethreat_DatabaseNov 22 21:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Librethreat Database - TechrightsNov 22 21:18
schestowitzRedix http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Librethreat_Database#RedixNov 22 21:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Librethreat Database - TechrightsNov 22 21:19
MinceRwhat is "PONIX"?Nov 22 21:19
jgayYou are right that a tipping point was a big level, newsy political thing. But you keep treating it like that would be sufficient to throw someone under the busNov 22 21:19
schestowitzwhat it says, I don't maintain that pageNov 22 21:20
MinceRall it says that it mitigates "Punix"Nov 22 21:20
schestowitzjgay: no need to throw anyoneNov 22 21:20
schestowitzcertainly not under any kind of automobileNov 22 21:20
schestowitzthe media liesNov 22 21:20
schestowitzdistortsNov 22 21:21
schestowitzfsf needs to call out the liesNov 22 21:21
schestowitzfsf is anti-establishmentNov 22 21:21
schestowitzif it's not, then it misses the poin tNov 22 21:21
schestowitzand the media lied for the 'establishment'Nov 22 21:21
jgayi mean rms literally had my address as his mailing address for a year. In technical terms he lived with me even if practically he didnt. i can assure you, the roots of the problem are far more local and focused and were coming to a head and severly negatively impacting  professional relationships and undermining specific goals/workNov 22 21:21
schestowitzit seems, based on growing mountains of evidence, to distract from or delay the bill gates shitstorm in mit (started brewing in august)Nov 22 21:22
schestowitzjgay: did he not live in mit?Nov 22 21:22
jgayi think if employees quit microsoft over gates or he stepped down from the foundation that makes senseNov 22 21:22
schestowitzthe media did not frame it like thisNov 22 21:23
jgayschestowitz: he was not allowed to list his office as his mailing address Nov 22 21:23
schestowitzonly for RMSNov 22 21:23
schestowitzliving in an office sounds like an OK compromiseNov 22 21:23
jgayi agree with your resentment or criticism of the mediaNov 22 21:23
schestowitznot paying for some place with just a bed Nov 22 21:23
jgayand i think he has been mistreatedNov 22 21:23
jgayall true. Nov 22 21:24
schestowitzthey said he endorsed or defended EpsteinNov 22 21:24
schestowitzand nothing could be  further from the truthNov 22 21:24
schestowitzeven sjvn printed this libel in sjvnNov 22 21:24
jgayI also think it was the right thing for rms to step down and to own up to his calculated decision Nov 22 21:24
schestowitzhe's associated with zemlin's pac nowNov 22 21:24
jgayand he did Nov 22 21:24
jgayschestowitz: you are right to defend the media's criticism and lies and even the response of many people who jumped on a bandwagonNov 22 21:25
jgayBradley said it wellNov 22 21:27
jgay"Firstly, all these events — from RMS' public comments on the MIT mailing list, to RMS' resignation from the FSF to RMS' discussions about the next steps for the GNU project — seem to many to have happened ridiculously quickly. But it wasn't actually fast at all. In fact, these events were culmination of issues that were slowly growing in concern to many people, including me"Nov 22 21:27
schestowitzsays more about BradNov 22 21:30
jgayBradley focuses mostly on RMS's escalated behavior Nov 22 21:30
schestowitzit was just a rigger to himNov 22 21:30
jgayhuh?Nov 22 21:30
schestowitzhe long wanted to get rid of RMSNov 22 21:30
schestowitza month later he too leftNov 22 21:30
jgayno he didn'tNov 22 21:30
schestowitzdidn't work as he had dreamed, did it?Nov 22 21:30
schestowitzI meant triggerNov 22 21:31
schestowitznot riggerNov 22 21:31
schestowitzsorry, I typo in an awkward way, keyboard on kneesNov 22 21:31
schestowitzit wasn't really about MITNov 22 21:31
jgayBradley was not working hard to remove rms. Nor did he want him goneNov 22 21:31
schestowitzhis letter was about things that have long bothered him and the lynch mob gave him smoother timing, unlike Leah's "boycott GNU" timingNov 22 21:32
schestowitzhe did want him gone, see his letterNov 22 21:32
jgayLeah apologized for her over reaction Nov 22 21:33
jgayAnd that is completely different. That is single event really Nov 22 21:33
MinceRhttps://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/08/29/00706fce2ff8471e.mp4Nov 22 21:33
jgayBradley has worked directly with rms for many years starting out as an rms assistNov 22 21:34
jgayBradley worked hard to help rms in ways that helped rms achieve his goals and those of the FSF and movementNov 22 21:35
schestowitzyes, but that does not refute the ouster planNov 22 21:35
jgaywhat you don't seem to get is that people like bradley don't do other thingsNov 22 21:35
schestowitzrms was in my experience a lot more approachable than brad/bkuhnNov 22 21:35
schestowitzthe latter struck me as rather "high horse"Nov 22 21:36
jgaytheir entire life and nearly every waking hour is working with orgs and communities to progress software freedom. Day in and day outNov 22 21:36
schestowitzand people generally agreed with me on it, even one decade ago in identi.caNov 22 21:36
jgaysure bradley is a grumpy gusNov 22 21:36
schestowitzand it showsNov 22 21:36
schestowitzeven more so than rmsNov 22 21:36
schestowitzwho is also grumpyNov 22 21:37
jgayand rms is fairly approachable if you don't immediately get hit on and asked to go back to his room with himNov 22 21:38
jgaybut if i had to place 100 trust in someones hands to do the right thing, it would be bradley kuhnNov 22 21:39
jgayif he accepts respobsibility or says he will guard a secret or whatever, he can be trusted in this sort of absolute way that you rarely encounterNov 22 21:40
schestowitzhis letter contributed to the messNov 22 21:40
jgayhe has integrityNov 22 21:41
schestowitzhe should have forseen itNov 22 21:41
schestowitzsince then no blog postNov 22 21:41
schestowitzonly one to say he'e stepping downNov 22 21:41
jgayhow did bradley contribute to a mess?Nov 22 21:41
schestowitzby some definition of integrityNov 22 21:41
jgayi mean hopefully rms will step down from gnu before it is destroyedNov 22 21:42
schestowitzwe need activistsNov 22 21:42
jgaymaybe bradley's letter contributed to thatNov 22 21:42
schestowitzhell bringersNov 22 21:42
schestowitzwe need to change thingsNov 22 21:42
schestowitznot conformist peopleNov 22 21:42
DaemonFC[m]"Global Fertility Crisis"Nov 22 21:42
jgayi think radicalism can be effective. It is a tactic. but it is one of many tacticsNov 22 21:42
schestowitzgnu seems to be doing ok, I see many releases of gnu projectsNov 22 21:43
DaemonFC[m]The birth rate is too low and yet we're also on track to add 3 billion more people before it peaks.Nov 22 21:43
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: goof for the planetNov 22 21:43
DaemonFC[m]Riiiiiiiiight.Nov 22 21:43
schestowitztoday at the gym I though of a solutionNov 22 21:43
schestowitzallow couples to have one kid and then they need to adopt animalsNov 22 21:44
schestowitzthen we can rebalance ecodiversityNov 22 21:44
DaemonFC[m]Obamacare should pay for vasectomy too?Nov 22 21:44
DaemonFC[m]Obamacare should pay for condoms?Nov 22 21:44
schestowitz5 billion large mammalsNov 22 21:44
schestowitzthey don't consume much stuff or fly anywayNov 22 21:44
schestowitzover time people can become patents to more than just their own speciesNov 22 21:44
schestowitzbut it would never fly, religious leaders would fight for their "market share"Nov 22 21:45
schestowitzjgay: you did that digitallyNov 22 21:45
schestowitzand I respect(ed) you for itNov 22 21:45
schestowitzit had a huge effectNov 22 21:45
schestowitzdrm is a dirty word to this day....Nov 22 21:45
schestowitzcompanies try to rebrand it nowNov 22 21:46
schestowitzhdcp, secure channels, etc.Nov 22 21:46
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MinceR"trusted computing"Nov 22 21:46
schestowitzthat's differentNov 22 21:46
schestowitztpmNov 22 21:46
MinceR"EME"Nov 22 21:46
schestowitzEMINEMNov 22 21:47
schestowitzcool man!Nov 22 21:47
MinceRthe TPM has features that have no other conceivable use than DRMNov 22 21:47
schestowitz"protected content"Nov 22 21:47
schestowitzyou don't want your 'content' NOT 'protected', DO YOU? PUNK!Nov 22 21:47
MinceRand even back in the TCPA/Palladium times the whole point was to take over users' computersNov 22 21:47
schestowitzyou don't want to toggle off "protected" anythingNov 22 21:48
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jgayschestowitz: "I" didn't do those thingsNov 22 21:55
jgayI worked with many people and we did them. Nov 22 21:55
jgayBut having a single name and a face for some issue campaign is a good ideaNov 22 21:56
schestowitzgood thing you didNov 22 21:56
schestowitzyou made the world a better placeNov 22 21:56
schestowitzhttp://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/the-fsfs-emacsconf-2019-satellite-was-an-m-x-successNov 22 21:57
schestowitzhmmm no rms?Nov 22 21:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fsf.org | The FSF's EmacsConf 2019 satellite was an M-x success! — Free Software Foundation — working together for free softwareNov 22 21:57
schestowitzdid he self banish or is he made to feel uninvited? He's right there in BostonNov 22 21:58
jgaySure we had some success. And sometimes a particular personality or temperment can be useful. But I would say the most important thing is if you can understand your audience and be able to get where you want to goNov 22 21:58
jgayso when i took a call with 10 staff from the FCC to discuss and represent the points of view of the FSF and the voices from many in the community I was careful in how I approached that audience and it was different when we would craft an action email or do an interview, etcNov 22 22:00
schestowitzevery little helps and countsNov 22 22:01
schestowitzit's a perseverance gameNov 22 22:01
schestowitzsometimes you don't directly 'feel' the resultsNov 22 22:01
schestowitzoil companies mastered the art of giving the illusion they don't care or feel harmedNov 22 22:01
schestowitzto suppress climate a ctivists Nov 22 22:02
schestowitzit's the same in tech and s/wNov 22 22:02
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jgayi mean it is a job. one where one should be professional. and that means having professional ethics and understanding you are working with others and in an org or institution that has stakeholders and so you must keep the trust of those stakeholders. Acting with consistency and integrity with clearly defined vision and mission is especially important. Nov 22 22:06
schestowitztoo much dependence on moneyNov 22 22:07
schestowitzto the point where independent speech can be lostNov 22 22:07
jgayno, stakeholders dont need to be fundersNov 22 22:08
schestowitzdue to the employer/salary/ stakeholdersNov 22 22:08
jgayespecially not in a nonprofitNov 22 22:08
schestowitzthis always leads to self-censorshipNov 22 22:08
schestowitzIBM is a patronNov 22 22:08
schestowitzthe old monopolist IBMNov 22 22:08
schestowitzthat had to be stopped with "IBM-compatible" frenzyNov 22 22:08
schestowitzno wonder fsf can't quite speak openly against red hat, systemd etc.Nov 22 22:09
schestowitzlike LF with MSFTNov 22 22:09
jgayFunders may be stakeholders but the most important stakeholders with a 501(c)3 are the public at largeNov 22 22:09
schestowitzthe price of silence is... the price of membership at X levelNov 22 22:09
schestowitzanyway, gtg now, really do have to sleep, else migraine riskNov 22 22:10
jgaywith a 501(c)6 like the linux foundation, it is the member companies first and foremostNov 22 22:10
schestowitzgnNov 22 22:10
MinceRand thus free software diesNov 22 22:10
MinceRbut who cares when the people in charge get paid :>Nov 22 22:10
MinceRgn schestowitz Nov 22 22:10
schestowitz0/Nov 22 22:10
schestowitzmild migraineNov 22 22:10
schestowitznot chronicNov 22 22:10
MinceRouchNov 22 22:10
jgaythat is so absurd. the fsf actively chose to not bloat itself or chase moneyNov 22 22:10
MinceRget betterNov 22 22:10
schestowitzdue to lack of sleepNov 22 22:11
jgaylike it could be a relatively rich org but it made some smart choices that meant doing what is right. Nov 22 22:11
schestowitzwoke up 1amNov 22 22:11
jgayi cant talk details but any hint they are influenced by money or donors in any meaningful or significant way that might compromise their mission is proposterousNov 22 22:12
MinceR(no audio?) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/11/02/48760159bb80a285.mp4Nov 22 22:14
jgayalmost all stakeholders that matter are not donors but they are stakeholders none the less. It infuriates me because people like myself don't choose to struggle financially and make 1/5th or less than what I could make and make that choice year after year for 20 years (and many others I know at nonprofits) to then compromise the org on the basis of moneyNov 22 22:14
XRevan86MinceR: Are you switching from catpics to caninepics?Nov 22 22:15
MinceRnoNov 22 22:16
XRevan86MinceR: just being more inclusive :)Nov 22 22:16
MinceRindeedNov 22 22:17
jgayAnyhow. I know that schestowitz cares more about bill gates than rms anyhow do maybe i should come prepared to talk bill gates next time. All these articles are: Rms blah blah but lets get to the heart of the matter, bill gates. ...  antifanboy rant etcNov 22 22:17
MinceRhe's understandably bothered that rms' character was assassinated for next to nothing while gates is left alone despite being involved with epsteinNov 22 22:19
MinceRand microshit gets to continue their attacks on free software and our freedomNov 22 22:19
jgayyeah it is unfortunate rms chose to die on his sword like he didNov 22 22:20
MinceRyes, let's blame rms for it allNov 22 22:21
MinceRespecially when people claim he said things he did not sayNov 22 22:21
jgayrms chose to stand his ground that it is more important to nit pick semantics on sensative topics than it is to make a bigger splash with free softwareNov 22 22:22
XRevan86He did apologise, no?Nov 22 22:22
XRevan86so it's not standing one's groundNov 22 22:22
jgayhe apologized? i don't think that happend. Nov 22 22:23
MinceRafaik semantics (and precision in linguistics) do tend to be important for hackersNov 22 22:23
jgayyes he made his choice. he is sophisticated enough to know and well supported enough to know that he had options Nov 22 22:24
jgayto work with others to make an apology along with a commitment to avoid going down weird rabbit holes related to semantics of sexual assault or how we name certain laws related to rape or sexual assaultNov 22 22:25
jgaylike he could have kept it narrow and gotten off relatively unscathed. he genuinely wants to continue being able to get nitty on those things and his choice was to leave behind the fsfNov 22 22:26
XRevan86I'm remembering it wrong, it was a clarification.Nov 22 22:27
XRevan86https:/stallman.org/archives/2019-sep-dec.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein)Nov 22 22:28
jgayit was a principled choice along with an overzealous response that came together in a way that he lost the support of his colleagues abd coworkersNov 22 22:28
XRevan86"I'm sorry for that hurt." – although, there's thatNov 22 22:28
jgayyeah i will try that kind of apology with my wife next time we argue and tell u how that goes :)Nov 22 22:29
MinceRsounds like there wasn't much support to begin withNov 22 22:29
MinceRmore crybullyism than supportNov 22 22:29
jgaynope you couldnt be more wrongNov 22 22:29
MinceRbut hey, once the crybullies destroy the FSF from the inside out, we'll start over, without cancerd cultists this timeNov 22 22:30
jgaythere was a rock solid bed of support whenever he needed or wanted itNov 22 22:30
MinceRthe community will learn eventuallyNov 22 22:30
MinceRif humanity survives long enoughNov 22 22:30
MinceRand we'll see whom ibm, microsloth and crApple will be able to exploit thenNov 22 22:31
jgayMinceR no he was offered help and support that he rejectedNov 22 22:31
XRevan86jgay: Could be explained by him not liking "public relations".Nov 22 22:32
jgayThis was a personal and principled response where he felt he needed to choose. The FSF and the board and volunteers and long time friends and people that are there to help were not to be brought in to help on something, in his mind, was done outside of the FSF.Nov 22 22:33
jgaysure again a personal taste or preference. an opinion. not a lack of options or ways to come out still being president of the fsfNov 22 22:33
XRevan86Even if his statement doesn't release an emotional charge, it is honest and explanatory. I can see how that's dangerous for a person who got media backlash, but I can't say that's being a bad person.Nov 22 22:34
jgayXRevan86: i mean who cares? Look when you depend on people and they depend on you, you can choose to act alone or work together. He chose to act alone and not work together Nov 22 22:35
jgayAnd his work alone was insufficient Nov 22 22:36
jgayand it further degraded trust with those who depend on him and that he depends onNov 22 22:36
XRevan86https://medium.com/@selamjie/a7e41e784f88Nov 22 22:36
XRevan86> For everyone who has ever been afraid to speak out about seemingly powerful people, consider for a moment that maybe they do not know what real strength is. They have existed in a system designed for them, circles of power that benefit and never question them, while you may have had to fight your way into those circles.Nov 22 22:36
XRevan86> Maybe they are not even half as strong as you are.Nov 22 22:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Remove Richard Stallman: Appendix A - Selam G. - MediumNov 22 22:37
jgayand so he lost their support when he ignored them and rejected it and chose his own way to "deal" with itNov 22 22:37
XRevan86I find this quote very interesting (from that activist, yes).Nov 22 22:37
-->TTwrs (~TTwrs@c-71-204-153-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #techrightsNov 22 22:38
XRevan86I see it as: she thought that RMS was a powerful well-connected person, and getting him down is empoweringNov 22 22:38
jgayyeah i tend to simply ignore what she wrote. i read it. it was a mix of good and bad, insightful and distraction in my opinion Nov 22 22:39
XRevan86Someone like the historian Sokolov, who murdered his lover, and yet somehow even in prison everyone's doing everything to cut him some slackNov 22 22:39
XRevan86Maybe she sees RMS as this kind of person.Nov 22 22:40
XRevan86jgay: I tend to think of it as misguided. I acknowledge the importance of such activism (because people like Oleg Sokolov do exist), yet she picked the wrong target and then refused to admit that, in my opinion; probably with confirmation bias involved in plenty.Nov 22 22:42
jgayNot sure. But she just spoke her truth. And enough was representative of reality that it beckoned a responseNov 22 22:42
jgayYeah but the bottom line was, there was a relatively straight forward way to respond Nov 22 22:43
XRevan86RMS is no saint and everyone tolerated his shenanigans for decades. Up against the wall!Nov 22 22:43
jgayLike it is a very clear playbook that RMS himself has followed time and time againNov 22 22:43
jgaymaybe that is what i am not making clearNov 22 22:43
XRevan86jgay: I just don't think that the result is not comparable with his misdeed.Nov 22 22:44
jgayI know RMS knew what he could have done in that situation because I have been a part of his strategic, collaborative process enoughNov 22 22:44
XRevan86He picked wrong words, and then thought he won't do it twice.Nov 22 22:45
XRevan86There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me, get him up against the wallNov 22 22:45
jgayagain this is what he did do in resoponse Nov 22 22:45
XRevan86jgay: Another thing is, I saw him IRL just a few days before that, and he looked very tired.Nov 22 22:47
jgaydoes it look like anything else he takes seriously? is he just a dumb dumb that doesnt know how to sway public opinion? NO. he works with people, often quickly, to respond strongly and prominently. He chose not to on this.Nov 22 22:47
XRevan86could've clouded his judgementNov 22 22:47
XRevan86Great timing, a major controversy after a tourNov 22 22:47
jgaynot sure. he usually gives around 120 or so talks each yearNov 22 22:48
DaemonFC[m]Trump tore down the Iran deal because he wanted to tear up anything Obama had something to do with.Nov 22 22:48
DaemonFC[m]He went after TPP and the Paris Climate Deal for the same reasons.Nov 22 22:48
DaemonFC[m]There's no way for TPP to come into force as drafted because it would require nations totaling 85% of the GDP of all of the ones that negotiated the agreement to ratify it to become binding on them.Nov 22 22:50
DaemonFC[m]The US economy is either the second or largest in the world, depending on whether you measure by total size or PPP.Nov 22 22:50
DaemonFC[m]In 1997, when the British handed over Hong Kong, their economy was still much larger than China's, but it's not now.Nov 22 22:51
XRevan86Although after that he also went to Microsoft to give a lectureNov 22 22:52
XRevan86that went wellNov 22 22:52
DaemonFC[m]Well, other than Bill Gates being a friend of Epstein's and Richard Stallman saying maybe Epstein's victims enjoyed it.....Nov 22 22:53
DaemonFC[m]I can't see what they'd have in common.Nov 22 22:53
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: When did he say that?Nov 22 22:54
XRevan86The accusation is that he said that "victims were entirely willing"Nov 22 22:54
danielp3344Do we really need to go over this again?Nov 22 22:55
XRevan86Well, it's just that even that was a misread. I'm not a native speaker, yet I can see that.Nov 22 22:56
XRevan86no matter, it was fairly easy to misread, albeit I'm not sure how one can still insist on that interpretation after preparing a whole article on the matter…Nov 22 22:57
XRevan86What would've been indeed empowering if she could tear Bill Gates from his tower, now that's an actual well-connected influential person.Nov 22 23:00
XRevan86Too big of a fish, not very empowering that, is itNov 22 23:01
MinceRor microsuck wouldn't have paid her for thatNov 22 23:01
XRevan86MinceR: Why do you think they did?Nov 22 23:01
MinceRthey admitted they had a hand in the attack against Linus TorvaldsNov 22 23:02
MinceRthey called free software and copyleft "cancer" for agesNov 22 23:02
MinceRthey tried every trick in their book to destroy it, to prevent us from running what we want on computers we ownNov 22 23:02
MinceRfinally they found something that works: the SJW troll armyNov 22 23:03
XRevan86It's very plausible that the opportunity just presented itselfNov 22 23:03
MinceRcould be, but it's all too suspiciousNov 22 23:03
XRevan86It could've happened at any timeNov 22 23:03
MinceRalso that the attacks on GNU and Linux happened so close togetherNov 22 23:03
MinceReven though there's a pretense of them being independentNov 22 23:03
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XRevan86MinceR: Now that's not surprising at allNov 22 23:04
XRevan86MinceR: This kind of… activism is on the riseNov 22 23:04
MinceRand if the human species doesn't find an antidote to it, it will kill the speciesNov 22 23:04
MinceRwe still need to develop some new technology just to survive on the long termNov 22 23:05
XRevan86Well, it's nothing new, the US society has a miriad taboos, activists exploit that by adding new taboos to the mix and shame everyone who violates themNov 22 23:07
XRevan86sometimes that even works outNov 22 23:07
XRevan86but boy does that stinkNov 22 23:08
XRevan86And it's also very volatile – you never know what will be taboo tomorrow.Nov 22 23:08
MinceRi don't even want to knowNov 22 23:09
MinceRthere are far more interesting things to life than thisNov 22 23:10
XRevan86it's also annoying that they still don't pick big fishNov 22 23:10
MinceRthey're afraid of big fishNov 22 23:10
XRevan86The biggest most corrupt institutions are shielded and safeNov 22 23:10
MinceRor they just want evil to winNov 22 23:10
XRevan86Nah, they just like that crowd power, the closest thing to democracy one can get – attacking free developers as a packNov 22 23:12
MinceRstrange, i thought we had checks and balances in democracy so that we wouldn't have mob ruleNov 22 23:13
XRevan86MinceR: Like I said, they can't affect the governmentNov 22 23:14
XRevan86Can anyone do that outside of the twin parties? (and our glorious Windows XP hackers)Nov 22 23:15
MinceRsure, their owners canNov 22 23:15
MinceRand putler's troll armies canNov 22 23:15
XRevan86MinceR: forgot about lobbiesNov 22 23:15
XRevan86MinceR: They can't even sway opinions of Russians in their favourNov 22 23:16
MinceRthey don't need toNov 22 23:16
MinceRthey can just kill any russian that gets in their wayNov 22 23:16
XRevan86As a Russian I can say that state-funded troll factories do exist, but their worth is overratedNov 22 23:17
XRevan86albeit they're annoying as heckNov 22 23:17
MinceRapparently they worked well enough sufficiently democratic countriesNov 22 23:17
MinceRs/suf/against &/Nov 22 23:18
MinceRespecially against the usaNov 22 23:18
XRevan86MinceR: If they manage to elect someone out of the twin party, my head will explodeNov 22 23:18
MinceRAgent Orange wasn't particularly active in the Stupid Party before he ran for election, was he?Nov 22 23:19
XRevan86MinceR: They love him still.Nov 22 23:19
XRevan86The state also likes to do dirty work for favours, mafia-styleNov 22 23:22
XRevan86With someone like a Libertarian the involvement of the RF state would've been crucial enough to make this possibleNov 22 23:23
XRevan86nah, too science fictionNov 22 23:23
XRevan86they can't possibly winNov 22 23:24
XRevan86When I stray too far off reality my hypotheses get ridiculousNov 22 23:26
XRevan86There goes my dream of becoming a writer…Nov 22 23:27
XRevan86To be featured on the same shelf as https://disgustingmen.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sci-fi-trash-30-650x1024.jpgNov 22 23:29
XRevan86Such honour is not meant to be mineNov 22 23:29
MinceR:DNov 22 23:30
XRevan86Anyway, instead of cultivating accountability for one's action, they make a perception that the angry mob will lynch one if one sticks their neck out and isn't careful.Nov 22 23:46
XRevan86That shuts people off, and provokes others to troll with double effort.Nov 22 23:46
XRevan86And I think and hope that after this approach's been around for long enough, it will die off after enough people see it just doesn't give good results. And the good results that they do see aren't as impressive as they may seem.Nov 22 23:48
MinceRthey don't care about what's good, they just want a power tripNov 22 23:49
MinceRthe whole point of the crybully movement is to get to be a bigot in a fashionable wayNov 22 23:49
XRevan86MinceR: I don't know, these kind of people usually get into the altReich, to the people with the same amount of braincells.Nov 22 23:50
XRevan86And there's some power, of a similiar fashion, there, as they're being advertised by the paladins and controversy-driven media.Nov 22 23:51
MinceRaltReich is the unfashionable/edgy way to be a bigotNov 22 23:51
XRevan86They really wouldn't been that big if it didn't work on those who "fight" them.Nov 22 23:51
XRevan86* wouldn't have beenNov 22 23:52
XRevan86MinceR: I think a lot of those people are just trying to make a difference.Nov 22 23:52
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XRevan86But in the end good intentions don't change the outcome.Nov 22 23:53
MinceRyeah, "making a difference" == power tripNov 22 23:53
XRevan86MinceR: Some people just like power. Trying to use it to improve on the world is different.Nov 22 23:54
XRevan86even if they get satisfaction when their efforts do change somethingNov 22 23:54
XRevan86and then refuse to acknowledge the negative effects, because that'd make them feel powerless and depressedNov 22 23:55
XRevan86and because it's like asking politely a train to stopNov 22 23:57

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