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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Saturday, April 25, 2020

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 25 00:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Studio 20.04 LTS Released []Apr 25 00:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Working Hard to Improve Fingerprint Login []Apr 25 00:20
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MinceR(note the date) 25 01:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Man Just Buying One Of Every Cleaning Product In Case Trump Announces It’s Coronavirus CureApr 25 01:25
schestowitzCrystalMath: Sweden has very high death tollApr 25 01:32
schestowitzif anything, it proves lock-downs ARE neesApr 25 01:32
XRevan86schestowitz: – wait, you didn't include the conclusion, which is that he died, 10 days after that.Apr 25 01:32
schestowitzneeded Apr 25 01:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | [Via XRevan86] April 3rd: 25 01:32
schestowitzcompare to Norway, Denmark and FinlandApr 25 01:32
schestowitzXRevan86: I saw that laterApr 25 01:38
schestowitzfinished work, catching up nowApr 25 01:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Lenovo are to start shipping Fedora Linux as an option on their ThinkPad laptops []Apr 25 01:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu 20.10 Codename Revealed by Canonical!! []Apr 25 01:44
CrystalMathschestowitz: there's no disaster the WHO was talking aboutApr 25 01:45
schestowitzbecause of lock-downsApr 25 01:47
schestowitzif billions contracted it, hospitals would have insufficient meansApr 25 01:47
schestowitzanyway, you're wasting everyone's time pushing primitivismApr 25 01:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IPFire 2.25 - Core Update 144 released []Apr 25 01:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 25 01:50
schestowitzXRevan86: I mentioned the death notice separately, shortly afterwardsApr 25 01:51
schestowitzI think scientes had posted the reddit linkApr 25 01:51
XRevan86schestowitz: See it now :). No, I posted it.Apr 25 01:51
XRevan86schestowitz: scientes would've never %)Apr 25 01:51
XRevan86he doesn't believe in harm from itApr 25 01:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Banana Pi SBCs slim down for low-power IoT []Apr 25 01:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UbuntuDDE Beta: A Linux Remix That Lifts User Experience to the Next Level []Apr 25 01:53
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Android Leftovers []Apr 25 01:54
schestowitzit's 'good' to see high-profile people dying too sometimesApr 25 01:56
schestowitzbecause namedless deaths help the proponents of, "nothing to see here, fake crisis"Apr 25 01:56
schestowitzbut tbh I focus on the numbersApr 25 01:57
XRevan86schestowitz: Yea, even to United Russia deputeesApr 25 02:01
MinceR 25 02:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Coming soon: Fedora on Lenovo laptops! | Tux MachinesApr 25 02:03
MinceRah, finally fedora is officially at least as shitty as windowsApr 25 02:03
MinceRi'm glad i've lived to see this momentApr 25 02:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Some belated coverage and Microsoft boosters on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS []Apr 25 02:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wine 5.7 Released []Apr 25 02:21
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: #Halo : Master Chief Collection, LudoNarraCon and Iratus: Lord of the Dead []Apr 25 02:29
schestowitz 25 02:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ #billgates paid far more bribing the media worldwide to paint him as a darling rather than a criminal that he is... than he spent actually tackling any health issues. He also makes a fortune by investing in #bigPharma who exploit the poor and ill with #patent #monopolyApr 25 02:35
schestowitzMinceR: trueApr 25 02:35
schestowitzat least Lenovo changed a bit since DaemonFC[m] blasted them out of orbit in 2016 for bad gnu/linux supportApr 25 02:36
schestowitzIIRC, it generated about 80 negative press articles, harming their sales and imageApr 25 02:36
schestowitz 25 02:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/ #china says it has only 12 new #covid19 cases and no deaths -- same as #australia But I have lots of reasons to dispute the Chinese figures, judging by their dodgy track record (to make CCP look strong)Apr 25 02:43
schestowitz"China, unfortunately, is an untrustworthy source of information - in regards to many things."Apr 25 02:43
schestowitzEsp. itselfApr 25 02:43
DaemonFC[m]I'm glad to see that Lenovo is offering a Fedora option. Honestly, when I go to buy a new laptop, one of the things that I always hate is that I have to figure out what the done thing is these days to get Windows off of it. I have to buy new computers so infrequently that many times ten years go by between hardware purchases, because Linux still works okay.Apr 25 02:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Mesa Development and NVIDIA Driver for Linux []Apr 25 02:55
DaemonFC[m]With Classic BIOS, it was usually relatively straightforward, but uEFI PCs have added a ridiculous number of failure points, often with no upside for the user.Apr 25 02:55
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: trueApr 25 02:56
schestowitzanyway, well done to youApr 25 02:56
schestowitzthe way I see it, the managers there still remember what happens if they enrage GNU/Linux folksApr 25 02:56
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: Rianne uses a ThinkPadApr 25 02:57
DaemonFC[m]It took forever to settle down again because the firmware that went out at first was incredibly broken, and that's often just the way things are when you're near Microsoft or Apple. Apr 25 02:57
schestowitzwe didn't pay for Windows on itApr 25 02:57
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: they can reject upstream, at hardware provided level, those that don't properly support LinuxApr 25 02:57
schestowitz e.g. bootloader on boardApr 25 02:57
schestowitzthis way the hardware supply chain, like foxconn which you did a number on more than a decade ago, will sufferApr 25 02:58
schestowitzuntil they rectify thingsApr 25 02:58
DaemonFC[m]> DaemonFC: Rianne uses a ThinkPadApr 25 02:58
DaemonFC[m]They use pretty decent hardware. Other than the initial firmware having code that could have only been there to obstruct other operating systems, it had numerous other bugs that they went ahead and patched while they had to back that out anyway.Apr 25 02:58
schestowitzit's a tad slow compared to mineApr 25 02:58
schestowitzbut I have a better processor and twice the ram, 8gb totalApr 25 02:58
schestowitznever had more than 2gb prior to thisApr 25 02:58
DaemonFC[m]So it wasn't just "Linux" stuff in there. There were a lot of problems that the kernel logged on boot that just went away after that update.Apr 25 02:58
schestowitzit's actually paying off in the sense that the speed improved and I spend almost no time waiting for anythingApr 25 02:59
DaemonFC[m]> but I have a better processor and twice the ram, 8gb totalApr 25 02:59
DaemonFC[m]I went so long between laptops that I went from 1 GB to 16 GB.Apr 25 02:59
schestowitzohApr 25 02:59
DaemonFC[m]> it's actually paying off in the sense that the speed improved and I spend almost no time waiting for anythingApr 25 03:01
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, of course RAM isn't a constraint because so much came in this one and I use Linux.Apr 25 03:01
DaemonFC[m]But GNOME is getting cleaned up finally in the last few cycles.Apr 25 03:01
DaemonFC[m]It's all relative though. Frees up several hundred MB but that's two browser tabs sometimes these days. :)Apr 25 03:01
DaemonFC[m]Vivaldi has tab suspension and lazy loading to help out though.Apr 25 03:02
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: I just get frustrated by people telling me there's no way to do something.Apr 25 03:03
DaemonFC[m]You persist. You use whatever you can grab to beat people over the head and eventually they usually give you what you want to make it stop.Apr 25 03:03
DaemonFC[m]Sometimes the goal is to win, sometimes it's damage control, sometimes people are making a problem for you and you have no defense so you give them a bigger problem and they have to stop and go deal with that and forget about you.Apr 25 03:05
DaemonFC[m]Lenovo: Goal is to win and just keep bludgeoning them in various ways until they give up. Same as Foxconn.Apr 25 03:07
DaemonFC[m]Court last year: Damage control. Sabotage and mislead the state and then offer them something small to make them think it's their last chance to get something from this.Apr 25 03:08
DaemonFC[m]Joy (landlord in Chicago): Revenge and shut her up. Tell the city where all the skeletons are buried. Get the inspector up her ass. She has bigger problems and leaves me and John alone.Apr 25 03:09
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: The theme here is to tie your opponent in all kinds of horrible knots.Apr 25 03:09
DaemonFC[m]Suddenly you are more trouble than you're worth.Apr 25 03:09
DaemonFC[m]The prosecutor still probably has no idea of the kind of maneuvering I was doing behind the scenes.Apr 25 03:10
DaemonFC[m]Suddenly his witnesses look like idiots and very unreliable. He sees me in a suit with an expensive lawyer and a temporary insanity defense about to happen.Apr 25 03:11
DaemonFC[m]Decides he has a bad case. Offers to settle it for a song and I go away without even being convicted of anything.Apr 25 03:12
DaemonFC[m]These are vicious and they're not messing around. You have to respond in kind, but always seeming polite and low key. Giving them nothing but more problems for their side.Apr 25 03:13
DaemonFC[m]*peopleApr 25 03:14
DaemonFC[m]----Apr 25 03:14
DaemonFC[m]In the case of Linux, the people who are not very interested in defending it are the people writing and maintaining it.Apr 25 03:15
DaemonFC[m]Lately, they seem to be adding every bad idea the industry comes up with.Apr 25 03:15
DaemonFC[m]MinceRis wrong though. Windows 10 is an absolute sewer that is barely fit to run the crappiest piece of trash you can find.Apr 25 03:16
DaemonFC[m]Much less anything important.Apr 25 03:16
DaemonFC[m]Linux cannot possibly get that bad.Apr 25 03:16
DaemonFC[m]Vivaldi for Android run pretty well on a Chromebook.Apr 25 03:18
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DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: I have a hard copy of The Art of War.Apr 25 03:24
DaemonFC[m]I bought it to read over last summer while court was going on.Apr 25 03:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Librem 5 March 2020 Software Update []Apr 25 03:26
DaemonFC[m]Direct conflict is extremely dangerous.Apr 25 03:27
DaemonFC[m]If I went to court and lost, I could be in jail right now dying of COVID-19 or something..Apr 25 03:27
DaemonFC[m]The goal was never to win. It was to deceive the other side into thinking court could be a major disaster for them and then negotiating a surrender that was much more lenient. Apr 25 03:28
DaemonFC[m]Proxy war is always better.Apr 25 03:29
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DaemonFC[m]It forces your losses onto someone else or unwittingly has them making an effort that hurts your enemy without ever realizing you exist and are influencing them.Apr 25 03:29
DaemonFC[m]Or your enemy knows it is you behind the scenes but you have deniability or the proxy gives you legal protections against reprisal.Apr 25 03:30
DaemonFC[m]Russia operates this way when it takes over a territory.Apr 25 03:31
DaemonFC[m]It makes it look like a grassroots uprising that they had nothing to do with.Apr 25 03:31
DaemonFC[m]Then they come in to "ensure that things stay peaceful" and then "ensure an orderly transition" from being an unrecognized satellite state to being a Russian Oblast. Apr 25 03:32
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 25 03:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: A bold new chapter for Fedora Workstation []Apr 25 03:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Panfrost Gets First 3D Renders on Bifrost GPU (Mali-G31) including Basic Texture Support []Apr 25 04:04
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Foundation: Mentorship Program, OSChina, Going Virtual and Docker []Apr 25 04:18
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smnthermesICONOCLASTRADIO: Wut?Apr 25 04:22
schestowitzyou can use lowercase, this style is seen as shoutingApr 25 04:29
schestowitzthere are already screenshotsApr 25 04:30
schestowitze.g. 25 04:31
schestowitzand more on the subject in 25 04:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Gates Foundation Critique - TechrightsApr 25 04:31
schestowitz(tip: in IRC people will perceive all CAPS or ALL CAPS as shouting and would be less likely to help you)Apr 25 04:32
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhat about organising a protest out in front of the police station demanding to stop stone walling and release the police report?Apr 25 04:32
schestowitzthat's possible, except not at this time due to lock-downsApr 25 04:33
schestowitzAnd Seattle was first to be hard-hitApr 25 04:33
schestowitzI doubt the police FOIA staff even work inside the office, maybe at best they work from home at some capacityApr 25 04:33
schestowitzalso, if you want me to look for it, there was recently a press report about how PDs used the pandemic to stall or slow down existing FOIA casesApr 25 04:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dr. Erickson COVID-19 Briefing - YouTubeApr 25 04:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers []Apr 25 04:36
schestowitzI am wary of youtube videosApr 25 04:36
schestowitznot seen this one yetApr 25 04:36
schestowitzbut I saw some which discredit exploration into the caseApr 25 04:36
schestowitzeither by alienating mediaApr 25 04:36
schestowitzor...Apr 25 04:36
schestowitzby discouraging police dept. from complyingApr 25 04:37
schestowitzwhy you ask?Apr 25 04:37
schestowitzbecause they can come up with excuses like...Apr 25 04:37
schestowitzrequesters are a bunch of people who spread falsehoods, so we don't want to play ballApr 25 04:37
*schestowitz opens video nowApr 25 04:38
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhy is there no info on this rick jones?Apr 25 04:38
schestowitzwe tried to find moreApr 25 04:38
schestowitzwe find a person with the same name at MicrosoftApr 25 04:38
schestowitzalso, we posted some info in IRC onlyApr 25 04:38
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhy is he not listed on the sex offender registry?Apr 25 04:38
schestowitzdoxing the person would likely not serve our causeApr 25 04:38
schestowitzICONOCLASTRADIO: search the registryApr 25 04:38
schestowitzI'm told he's not in itApr 25 04:38
schestowitznationally or state-levelApr 25 04:39
schestowitzwe know the full nameApr 25 04:39
schestowitzand the court verdict can be found onlineApr 25 04:39
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhy is there no pictures?Apr 25 04:39
schestowitzbut you will need to pay for it, not sure they'll ship anything under COVIDApr 25 04:39
schestowitzICONOCLASTRADIO: common nameApr 25 04:39
schestowitzi guessApr 25 04:39
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhy is there no picture of this creature?Apr 25 04:40
schestowitzI bet some photos exist somewhere, but it's easy to mistake this person for others with the same nameApr 25 04:40
schestowitzICONOCLASTRADIO: good luck finding someApr 25 04:40
schestowitzif you do, let us knowApr 25 04:40
schestowitzbut be sure it's the same person, you don't want to associate the crimes with an innocent man somewhereApr 25 04:40
schestowitzhe's in his 50s iircApr 25 04:40
ICONOCLASTRADIOwhat about intelius, and his sisters.Apr 25 04:41
schestowitz?Apr 25 04:41
ICONOCLASTRADIOthere was a man his age that died in maryville,TN, and his body was brought back to cali where his sisters live.Apr 25 04:42
schestowitzwe have photos of the police staff 25 04:42
schestowitzand could add links for more info about themApr 25 04:42
schestowitzIIRC, we left out some links to not perpetuate the idea we 'violate' their 'privacy'Apr 25 04:42
schestowitzICONOCLASTRADIO: any links on that?Apr 25 04:43
schestowitzafaik, he was alive not too long ago as his probation was discussed in courtApr 25 04:43
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TechrightsBot-trHello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77Apr 25 04:48
schestowitzTacoma, WAApr 25 04:49
schestowitzGig Harbor, WAApr 25 04:49
schestowitzLakewood, WAApr 25 04:49
schestowitzdoesn't sound close to where he livedApr 25 04:49
schestowitz"Apr 25 04:50
schestowitzRick Allen JonesApr 25 04:50
schestowitzAGE: 50Apr 25 04:50
schestowitz"Apr 25 04:50
schestowitzThis one?Apr 25 04:50
schestowitz"WORKED AT" does not reveal anything relevantApr 25 04:51
schestowitzI cannot open the first link, they break EU law (GDPR) and thus block my IPApr 25 04:52
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: SUSE/OpenSUSE: SUSE Linux Enterprise 15 Service Pack 2, SUSE Manager 4.1 Public Beta and OpenSUSE Tumbleweed []Apr 25 05:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Review of GNU/Linux on Dell XPS and a Fix []Apr 25 05:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM/Red Hat/Fedora Leftovers []Apr 25 05:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming []Apr 25 05:25
CrystalMath<schestowitz> because of lock-downs <- no because there are no lockdowns in swedenApr 25 05:26
CrystalMathplease don't be ridiculous, you cannot thank lockdowns for the lack of a disaster when there are no lockdownsApr 25 05:27
schestowitzhence so many deathsApr 25 05:27
CrystalMaththere's no disasterApr 25 05:27
schestowitzlots of deaths there, per capitaApr 25 05:27
schestowitzcheckApr 25 05:27
CrystalMathand everyone is fineApr 25 05:27
schestowitzthere is high death toll in swedenApr 25 05:27
CrystalMathi never said there wouldn't be deathsApr 25 05:27
schestowitzover 100 dead yesterdayApr 25 05:27
CrystalMaththere's no collapse of the healthcare systemApr 25 05:27
schestowitzscandinavia countries that locked down did like 10 times betterApr 25 05:28
schestowitz5-10 times less casualtiesApr 25 05:28
CrystalMathlike belgiumApr 25 05:28
CrystalMathwith 6,679 deathsApr 25 05:28
schestowitzbelgium is worst in europeApr 25 05:28
schestowitzand not scandinaviaApr 25 05:28
CrystalMaththe netherlands, with 4,289 deaths (but their lockdown is soft)Apr 25 05:28
schestowitz(worst except san marino, which is tiny)Apr 25 05:28
CrystalMathsweden seems to be fine, with only 2,152Apr 25 05:28
schestowitzour lock-down is also softApr 25 05:29
schestowitzno,Apr 25 05:29
schestowitzper capitaApr 25 05:29
schestowitzcheck per capitaApr 25 05:29
CrystalMathdeaths per 1M, 213Apr 25 05:29
CrystalMathsweden it's any worse than irelandApr 25 05:30
CrystalMath*isn't anyApr 25 05:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU/Linux and Intel []Apr 25 05:31
CrystalMathalso, even if there were many deaths per capitaApr 25 05:31
CrystalMaththat isn't showing any failure of anything in swedenApr 25 05:32
CrystalMatheverything is working fineApr 25 05:32
schestowitzSweden is at #10Apr 25 05:33
schestowitznot goodApr 25 05:34
schestowitzand they have an affluent health systemApr 25 05:34
schestowitzcompare to finland, norway, denmarkApr 25 05:34
schestowitzdo it..Apr 25 05:34
CrystalMaththe burden of proof is on the belief that locking down is requiredApr 25 05:36
CrystalMathas long as i see no catastrophe in sweden, i will default to no-lockdown being preferredApr 25 05:36
CrystalMathbecause you should never do a lockdown for no reasonApr 25 05:36
CrystalMathit has serious consequences for the economyApr 25 05:36
schestowitzSweden would maybe lose 500 people with a lockdownApr 25 05:37
CrystalMathand how much moneyApr 25 05:37
schestowitzand we have not yet seen how many more remain to die thereApr 25 05:37
schestowitzfuck moneyApr 25 05:37
CrystalMathwhich results in how many more deadApr 25 05:37
schestowitzwe don't care about that..Apr 25 05:37
schestowitzwithout people there's no money, eitherApr 25 05:37
CrystalMathyes but those 1,500Apr 25 05:37
CrystalMathwere clearly not very importantApr 25 05:38
schestowitzand without confidence in the public health morale is low, tooApr 25 05:38
schestowitzthey're important to their loved onesApr 25 05:38
CrystalMathbecause they're gone and we fail to see a shred of difference in the worldApr 25 05:38
schestowitzgo to the hospital and tell people to their face they're "not important"Apr 25 05:38
CrystalMathwhile, locking down causes a great dealApr 25 05:38
schestowitzyeah, well... better than bombs falling from the skyApr 25 05:38
schestowitzthe work can resumeApr 25 05:39
CrystalMathi don't find it hypocritical, actuallyApr 25 05:39
CrystalMathit's okay to miss your loved onesApr 25 05:39
schestowitzsome people agree with youApr 25 05:39
CrystalMathand at the same time believe that their deaths will not cause any huge problemApr 25 05:39
schestowitzpeople who don't value people (Apr 25 05:39
schestowitz(not even themselves... they smoke and drink heavily)Apr 25 05:39
CrystalMathi realize that there's a conflict hereApr 25 05:39
schestowitzlike those "liberation" marches in the USApr 25 05:39
CrystalMathi support #ReopenUSAApr 25 05:40
schestowitzIn early days nazi Germany they decided to also kill the "burden"Apr 25 05:40
schestowitz"starvation rooms"Apr 25 05:40
CrystalMathstarvation has a much higher death count than COVID-19Apr 25 05:40
schestowitzreopenUSA is funded by oligarchsApr 25 05:40
CrystalMathi would rather expose everyone to COVID-19 than to starvationApr 25 05:40
schestowitzthey just want to get back to making lots of $Apr 25 05:40
CrystalMathin fact i think COVID-19 is not so badApr 25 05:41
schestowitzand their astroturf appeals to primitivists who discard public health and support tribalismApr 25 05:41
CrystalMaththings don't fall from the skyApr 25 05:42
CrystalMaththe economy is real and money has to be madeApr 25 05:42
CrystalMathwithout it, there will be hungerApr 25 05:42
CrystalMathand famineApr 25 05:42
CrystalMathand who knows how many diseases will take lives thenApr 25 05:43
CrystalMathyou can't force doctors to work for free if they're too busy dying of hunger, you knowApr 25 05:43
CrystalMaththe only thing force leads to, is running out of bulletsApr 25 05:43
CrystalMathand then being toppled down like the soviet union wasApr 25 05:44
CrystalMathsocialism is a great evil that bases itself on comfortable liesApr 25 05:44
CrystalMaththe uncomfortable truth is, people must dieApr 25 05:45
CrystalMaththe sooner it's accepted, the betterApr 25 05:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Linux Headlines, Real Python Podcast and Software Freedom Podcast Special on GNU Health []Apr 25 05:50
schestowitzlolApr 25 05:51
schestowitzwelcome to youtubeApr 25 05:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: LibreOffice, Maui, Streamlink and HomeBank []Apr 25 05:54
CrystalMath 25 05:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | GAME OVER: The Swedish - Belarus COVID Herd Immunity Strategy Has WonApr 25 05:57
schestowitzSweden has high death ratesApr 25 05:57
schestowitzesp. in recent weeksApr 25 05:58
schestowitzso this premise is falseApr 25 05:58
schestowitzeven Belarus is now proven falseApr 25 05:58
schestowitzand seems like it might move to lock-down soonApr 25 05:58
schestowitzwe mentioned it here days agoApr 25 05:58
schestowitzanyway, enough with those one-nickle shitpostsApr 25 05:58
schestowitztoo much looney stuff in the channel todayApr 25 05:58
schestowitzbblApr 25 05:58
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Devices: Linaro Developerbox, Axiomtek and More []Apr 25 06:14
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oiaohmCrystalMath: also those numbers look nicely false.  mortality 0.25%<<  Australia had full cruse ships with infected people that we tested all of them.   The death rate from those was somewhere between 1 to 2 percent of infected.  Might be correct for over all if only 1/3 of population gets infected and it stops there.Apr 25 06:38
CrystalMathcruise ships tend to have older peopleApr 25 06:39
oiaohmNot the party shipsApr 25 06:40
oiaohmThe party ships are generally closer to your normally populations spread.Apr 25 06:41
oiaohmSo they turn out to be very good modeling.Apr 25 06:41
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oiaohmCrystalMath: There are two things that make the hurd immunity idea into a possible hugh stupid mistake.  1) covid-19 can be frozen so can be in cold storage in every person freezer. 2) how long does Covid-19 immunity last.   Flu vaccines most of them only give you 4 months of protection against X list of virus before the human body forgets. Apr 25 06:46
CrystalMathtbh i was mostly praising the approach because it saves the economyApr 25 06:47
oiaohmHas it.Apr 25 06:47
oiaohmIf you get repeating waves of covid-19 with increasing death toll due to repeated lung damage you have not saves your economy you have doomed it.Apr 25 06:48
oiaohmBasically way to soon to tell.Apr 25 06:48
oiaohmCrystalMath: please note Spanish flu did in fact do repeated waves so defeating hurd immunity idea.    History of virus infections is really important to read up on.Apr 25 07:02
oiaohmModern day we have seen it with measles in areas that don't use the vaccine that 100 percent makes sure of long term immunity.Apr 25 07:04
oiaohmImmunity duration is a very important factor if hurd immunity is a option or path to failure.Apr 25 07:04
oiaohmThe bad part is Hurd immunity can appear to be working when you are really on a ticking timebomb of fail.Apr 25 07:06
CrystalMathactuallyApr 25 07:10
CrystalMathregarding the spanish fluApr 25 07:10
CrystalMaththose who had it in the first wave did not get it againApr 25 07:10
CrystalMathantibodies do last, they just don't work against mutationsApr 25 07:10
CrystalMaththe flu vaccine fails because the flu mutates really wellApr 25 07:11
CrystalMathand so does covid-19Apr 25 07:11
CrystalMathhonestly covid-19 is better at itApr 25 07:11
CrystalMathso maybe not even herd immunity will work, that remains a possibilityApr 25 07:11
CrystalMathbut with the flu, herd immunity worksApr 25 07:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: For #tuxmachines "past year has been our strongest" []Apr 25 07:12
CrystalMathi guess we need hindsight to knowApr 25 07:13
CrystalMathgoodnightApr 25 07:13
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schestowitzBack to his methApr 25 07:13
oiaohmspanish flu had 3 strains.   So those who had the first wave did get the 4 and 5 waves.Apr 25 07:14
schestowitz[07:04] <oiaohm> Immunity duration is a very important factor if hurd immunity is a option or path to failure.Apr 25 07:16
schestowitzgnu hurd?Apr 25 07:16
schestowitzI herd you like hurd so I gave you herd immunityApr 25 07:17
oiaohmSorry brain had wrong word.  Mind you some of the ways Gnu hurd was a problem child to get work does align to why Herd immunity fails.Apr 25 07:18
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What’s New in Xubuntu 20.04 – Feature Tour []Apr 25 12:07
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MinceR> uEFI PCs have added a ridiculous number of failure points,Apr 25 12:33
MinceRwhich is why i always made sure my pcs had legacy boot :>Apr 25 12:33
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 25 12:33
MinceR25 041645 < DaemonFC[m]> Linux cannot possibly get that bad.Apr 25 12:34
MinceRjust watch gkh.Apr 25 12:34
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MinceRkdbus failed, but now he calls the shotsApr 25 12:34
schestowitzwhy do you blame that on him?Apr 25 12:34
MinceRblame what?Apr 25 12:34
schestowitzI cannot remember the pertinent involvementApr 25 12:35
schestowitzbtu...Apr 25 12:35
schestowitzbut iirc he wanted to add kdbusApr 25 12:35
MinceRgkh wanted to add it, yesApr 25 12:35
schestowitzand iirc that brings systemd with it in some formApr 25 12:35
MinceRwhen he was second in commandApr 25 12:35
schestowitzhe still is afaikApr 25 12:35
schestowitzwho else?Apr 25 12:35
MinceRit depended solely on Linus that Linux wasn't fucked up with kdbus back thenApr 25 12:35
MinceRnow Linus is merely decorationApr 25 12:35
schestowitzhe was first in comment just over a year agoApr 25 12:35
MinceRyes, officiallyApr 25 12:36
schestowitzbut in LF Microsoft is always sfirst in the chain of commandApr 25 12:36
MinceRnow he's unofficially soApr 25 12:36
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MinceRand microsoft loves "just throw it in the kernel"Apr 25 12:36
schestowitzTorvalds is in the passenger seat, but he is still in denial about itApr 25 12:36
MinceRit helps reduce their competitive disadvantageApr 25 12:36
schestowitzyeahApr 25 12:36
schestowitzlet's see if Linux quitsApr 25 12:36
schestowitzthen the media will call him namesApr 25 12:36
schestowitzlike it did RMSApr 25 12:36
schestowitzto make sure people stay with CharlaZemlinApr 25 12:37
schestowitz*Linus quitsApr 25 12:37
schestowitzwell, it's easy to mistypeApr 25 12:37
schestowitzbut Linux is no longer a Linus thingApr 25 12:37
schestowitzthey just sound similarApr 25 12:37
schestowitzlike Linux Foundation sounds similar to LinuxApr 25 12:37
schestowitzbut it has not much to do with LinuxApr 25 12:37
MinceRmaybe they won't even let him quitApr 25 12:38
schestowitzthey can't force him to stayApr 25 12:38
MinceRit has much to do with Linux, it's just that they're opposed to itApr 25 12:38
schestowitzI'd like to see the paper he signed with his law firm over the trademarksApr 25 12:38
MinceRthey can force him to do anythingApr 25 12:38
schestowitzI assume ODSL wasn't handed over the trademarkApr 25 12:38
schestowitzand thre's a TM page in the LF siteApr 25 12:38
MinceRthey might be blackmailing him with anythingApr 25 12:38
MinceRmaybe SJW stuff, that's definitely their styleApr 25 12:38
schestowitzI think he still has full "rights" over the nameApr 25 12:38
schestowitzhe can even force LF to rename and take away the project from themApr 25 12:39
schestowitzBEFORE they outsource it to ShitHubApr 25 12:39
schestowitzMinceR: I heard that theoryApr 25 12:39
schestowitzabout what leverage they might haveApr 25 12:39
schestowitzmaybe The New Yorker (Conde Nast) was a warning shot to himApr 25 12:39
schestowitz"We got you by the balls" so play nice for Zemlin et alApr 25 12:39
schestowitzit's not outlandish a theoryApr 25 12:40
schestowitzcompanies do that a lotApr 25 12:40
schestowitzesp. when they fear someone who leaves might 'disparage' the companyApr 25 12:40
schestowitzand then gets the person to sign something, usually with some time-delayed cash associated with itApr 25 12:40
schestowitzthey get the CFOs to sign those things, to help hide how badly they really do financiallyApr 25 12:41
MinceR 25 12:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Saw More Wayland Improvements This Week, Other Enhancements []Apr 25 13:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LXQt 0.15 Released []Apr 25 13:39
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XRevan86scientes: another non-victim to this non-pandemic totally harmless virus.Apr 25 13:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Скончался Сергей Белошицкий Сегодня в... - Елизаветинская больница | FacebookApr 25 13:47
CrystalMathschestowitz: daily update: 25 13:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-In Belarus, Everyday Life Is Much the Same as Coronavirus Spreads - WSJApr 25 13:47
CrystalMathBelarus: as of 2020-04-25, no lockdownApr 25 13:48
CrystalMathi will be tracking it every day, since you said "they will lockdown soon"Apr 25 13:48
XRevan8663 → 67Apr 25 13:49
CrystalMathBrazil is unlocking, and quite fastApr 25 13:50
oiaohmCrystalMath:  the idea that you had spanish flu once you were safe.  As what as docunement here on one island 92 had Spanish flu twice.  These double infections is what leads to the CSIRO in Australia find that we have two different ways our immune system records infection agents.Apr 25 13:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Does homologous reinfection drive multiple-wave influenza outbreaks? Accounting for immunodynamics in epidemiological modelsApr 25 13:55
oiaohmMost modern Flu vaccines in Australia use the temporary system.   Where body makes anti-bodies against the Flu for 90 to 120 days before forgetting about it completely.Apr 25 13:56
oiaohmBasically human body has long term record of infection agents and short term record.   Question now is those with light covid-19 infections long term or short term protection.Apr 25 13:57
CrystalMathwell, there is no certainty that any antibody will be permanentApr 25 14:03
CrystalMathit is possible flush them all out, with something like rituximabApr 25 14:04
CrystalMathalso, HIV/AIDS can bringt T-cells downApr 25 14:04
CrystalMath*bringApr 25 14:04
CrystalMathto the point that B-cells don't matterApr 25 14:04
CrystalMath 25 14:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Measles virus infection destroys immune system memory, increasing vulnerability to other diseases - The Washington PostApr 25 14:05
CrystalMathanother fun factApr 25 14:05
CrystalMathit's just easy to lose antibodiesApr 25 14:05
CrystalMathbut most people who've had spanish flu could never get it againApr 25 14:05
oiaohmThose 92 islanders and other cases like it there was no Measles or anything else in the mix.Apr 25 14:06
oiaohmAbout 1 in 5 who got spanish flu could get it again.Apr 25 14:06
oiaohmWithout any other outside factors at play.Apr 25 14:06
oiaohmOf course that ratio is different virus to virus.Apr 25 14:07
CrystalMathinfluenzavirus also causes lymphocytopeniaApr 25 14:07
CrystalMathwhich could explain itApr 25 14:07
CrystalMathas it means sometimes you can't form permanent antibodiesApr 25 14:07
CrystalMathbecause of thatApr 25 14:07
CrystalMathCOVID-19 does the same thingApr 25 14:08
CrystalMatheven more strongly, it seemsApr 25 14:08
oiaohmExactly. Covid-19 has all the marking of possible really short immunity.Apr 25 14:08
oiaohmHerd immunity of course will never work if that is the case.Apr 25 14:08
oiaohmIt will be appearing to work at first of course.Apr 25 14:09
oiaohmOf course if it has short immunity we will only find out how bad having the virus multi times is once people have had it multi times.Apr 25 14:11
oiaohmThis is the big problem of the unknowns at the moment.Apr 25 14:13
oiaohmCountries are basically having to place their bets.  Do they lock down with heavy quarantine social distancing because they suspect stopping this virus is going to down right hard particular if any vaccine turns out to be sort term.  Or do they let it go and pray long term immunity is the common out come.Apr 25 14:18
CrystalMathnicaragua joins the no-shutdown brigade :)Apr 25 14:19
oiaohmThis is really a world wide gambling competition at the momement.Apr 25 14:20
CrystalMathwhat i don't like is so many betting on lockdownsApr 25 14:22
CrystalMathvery dangerousApr 25 14:22
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CrystalMathit may actually even be better to let millions dieApr 25 14:22
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oiaohmCrystalMath:   Nicargua population breakdown they don't have many over 65.Apr 25 14:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Demographics of Nicaragua - WikipediaApr 25 14:22
oiaohmThe number of people you have over 65 is a factor.Apr 25 14:23
CrystalMathtrueApr 25 14:23
oiaohmIf those get ill and cripple you hospital system you have a really big problems.Apr 25 14:23
oiaohmthat result in other things causing deaths as well.Apr 25 14:23
oiaohmdue to lack of treatment.Apr 25 14:24
CrystalMathyou can also decline to treat themApr 25 14:24
CrystalMathanother reason to legalize euthanasia, as it may be painful without itApr 25 14:24
oiaohmThat still leaves the dead bodies to deal with before it causes other illnesses.Apr 25 14:24
oiaohmMost countries can only safely deal with a death rate under a particular value as well.Apr 25 14:25
oiaohmThis is not something you want to be in charge of as it complex and not simple.Apr 25 14:26
oiaohmwith you having to make judgement calls without all the information.Apr 25 14:26
oiaohmLetting the virus go is not without is risks.   Lockdown is also not without is long term issues.Apr 25 14:27
CrystalMathpersonally i think we need someone very coldhearted to leadApr 25 14:27
CrystalMathwho would force everything to continue and burn the deadApr 25 14:27
oiaohmNo you don't want to burn the dead.Apr 25 14:27
oiaohmNot without proper processing.Apr 25 14:27
CrystalMathwhat sort of processing?Apr 25 14:28
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oiaohmChina cremated process for covid-19 bodies have them burn at a high enough temperures and with the correct exhaust filtering.  << don't know if you got that.Apr 25 14:30
oiaohmCrystalMath: basically just burn the bodies and they are not burnt hot enough you could just spread covid-19 instead of containing it.Apr 25 14:31
CrystalMathwhat's the point?Apr 25 14:31
CrystalMathmy system would allow COVID-19 to spreadApr 25 14:31
CrystalMathfar and wideApr 25 14:31
CrystalMatheveryone would get itApr 25 14:32
CrystalMathwe just have a space problem for all the deadApr 25 14:32
oiaohmWhat if no one gets long term immunity and it goes around and around and around.Apr 25 14:32
CrystalMaththen 1% constantly dieApr 25 14:32
oiaohmDoes it remain at 1%Apr 25 14:32
CrystalMathsooner or later we'll evolveApr 25 14:32
oiaohmor does that increase every time you had it.Apr 25 14:32
CrystalMathto be immune :PApr 25 14:33
MinceR1% per what period of time?Apr 25 14:33
CrystalMathoiaohm: give it 100 yearsApr 25 14:33
CrystalMathwe may find a cure, anywayApr 25 14:33
oiaohmCrystalMath: its more like 25 years at 1% with repeated infection until everyone dead.Apr 25 14:33
CrystalMathoiaohm: personally i have reasons to believe the death rate is only 0.1%Apr 25 14:33
oiaohmRemember is roughtly 4 times a year if you don't have long term immunity to get it again.Apr 25 14:34
CrystalMathoiaohm: look this virus is not that dangerousApr 25 14:34
CrystalMathBelarus is doing nothingApr 25 14:34
CrystalMaththey're not all deadApr 25 14:34
CrystalMathnor does it look like it's heading for thatApr 25 14:34
oiaohmIt would not look that way yet.Apr 25 14:35
MinceR> everyone deadApr 25 14:36
MinceRsounds good to meApr 25 14:36
oiaohmCrystalMath: Belarus is not doing nothing.  They are doing heavy contract tracing and isolation.  South Korea has got that process to work without lockdowns.Apr 25 14:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | No lockdown here: Belarus' strongman rejects coronavirus risks. He suggests saunas and vodka. - The HourApr 25 14:40
oiaohmBut remember South Korea got on to the problem early.Apr 25 14:41
oiaohmAs soon as the WHO annonced it South Korea started contact tracing and isolation on those entering contry.Apr 25 14:41
MinceR 25 14:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- 25 14:42
schestowitzMinceR: kurt cobin...Apr 25 14:43
schestowitzcobain Apr 25 14:43
schestowitz(iirc)Apr 25 14:43
schestowitzunless it's misattributed to himApr 25 14:43
MinceR 25 14:53
CrystalMathoiaohm: i see nothing wrong with finding the sickApr 25 15:06
CrystalMaththey're also testing adequatelyApr 25 15:06
CrystalMathwhich is greatApr 25 15:06
CrystalMathhowever, life carries on as normalApr 25 15:06
CrystalMathalso, i don't think it's possible for COVID-19 to wipe out humanityApr 25 15:07
CrystalMaththe plague couldn'tApr 25 15:07
CrystalMathmuch less this measely coldApr 25 15:07
oiaohmProblem is what you said I don't think we don't have data on exactly how dangerous COVID-19 is.   But the existing numbers say higher than your normal Colds and Flu.Apr 25 15:09
MinceR:(Apr 25 15:09
oiaohmProblem is how much higher.Apr 25 15:10
oiaohmWorking out how much higher needs the extra information if reinfection is possible and if that gets more lethal or not....   of course Covid-19 has not been around long enough for us to have all that data yet.Apr 25 15:11
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oiaohmCrystalMath: horrible problem is once we have the data on how lethal COVID-19 really is if you have guessed wrong by guessing covid-19 is less lethal than what is correcting the position could be next to impossible.  Those who guess the other way will only have extra economic cost.   Basically its place you  bets.Apr 25 15:15
MinceR 25 15:16
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oiaohmAnd it is possible to roll a form of snake eyes that the groups doing lockdown have over reacted so cost themself a lot containing and those doing nothing screwed.    Basically you have lockdown with contact trace,  Contact trace with boarder quartine restrictions and do nothing as your three options to place your bets on.Apr 25 15:21
oiaohmDo nothing I don't see as a sane or safe bet.Apr 25 15:22
oiaohmToo much risk with that option of having your medical and burial systems over flowing.Apr 25 15:23
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CrystalMath 25 15:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Boris Johnson is returning to make the toughest call of his life | News | The TimesApr 25 15:36
CrystalMathoiaohm: the UK will ease restrictions as wellApr 25 15:36
CrystalMathwhich is understable, considering they mustApr 25 15:36
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oiaohmCrystalMath:  Really UK could be past the point of no return.Apr 25 15:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-UK coronavirus deaths more than double official figure, according to FT study | Free to read | Financial TimesApr 25 15:39
CrystalMathoiaohm: then if no disaster happens in the UK, i was right?Apr 25 15:40
CrystalMathsince i would bet on "the virus is mostly harmless"Apr 25 15:40
CrystalMathhow wrong i was, must be expressed in an INTEGER number of millions deadApr 25 15:41
CrystalMathright now, that number is 0Apr 25 15:41
CrystalMathwithout a million dead i won't even consider the virus is deadlyApr 25 15:41
oiaohmPast point of no return is part the point you can use contact tracing and lockdown to effectively stop the virus.Apr 25 15:42
oiaohmIts the problem of covid-19 being able to live in ice.Apr 25 15:43
CrystalMathah, that's what you meantApr 25 15:43
CrystalMathit can't live in iceApr 25 15:43
oiaohm95 percent dies when frozen 5 percent survives.Apr 25 15:43
oiaohmThis is already documented.Apr 25 15:43
oiaohmOf course that 5 percent is enough to be infecting and start the mess up again.Apr 25 15:44
CrystalMathi don't see why you would want to extinct COVID-19Apr 25 15:44
CrystalMathhonestly it's not that dangerousApr 25 15:45
CrystalMathit's like saying the fate of humanity depends on eradicating the common coldApr 25 15:45
CrystalMathit's really not that badApr 25 15:45
CrystalMathand there's WAY too many peopleApr 25 15:45
oiaohmWe have common cold spread numbers from cruse ships and death rates as well.Apr 25 15:45
CrystalMathsureApr 25 15:46
oiaohmThat does not read as a 1 to 2 percent death rate as COVID-19 does.Apr 25 15:46
CrystalMathbut nobody is afraid of itApr 25 15:46
oiaohmfrom cruse ships.Apr 25 15:46
CrystalMathyes but the world has 7.7 billionApr 25 15:46
oiaohmCommon cold death rate on cruse ships is 0.01 percent.Apr 25 15:46
CrystalMathif 3 billion die, we still won't go below the level of the 1960sApr 25 15:46
oiaohmWe are talking quite a difference here.Apr 25 15:47
CrystalMath2% of the world dyingApr 25 15:47
CrystalMathmeans 7.5 billion leftApr 25 15:47
oiaohmWe don't know if covid-19 will stop at only 2% dead yet.Apr 25 15:47
CrystalMaththat's not enough to save us from overpopulationApr 25 15:47
oiaohmThat the problem.Apr 25 15:48
CrystalMathif it was 10% dead like SARSApr 25 15:48
CrystalMathwe'd be left with 7 billionApr 25 15:48
oiaohmSars multi infected to get up to 10%Apr 25 15:48
CrystalMathstill too muchApr 25 15:48
oiaohmbefore it was contained.Apr 25 15:48
CrystalMathtoo many people remain, not dieApr 25 15:48
XRevan86I'm surprised no one thought of "SARS-CoV-2 doesn't kill people, people kill people".Apr 25 15:48
CrystalMath7 billion will be left, the world will barely be set back to the 2000sApr 25 15:49
CrystalMathit will still be overpopulatedApr 25 15:49
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CrystalMathback in the 2000s, i believed the world is overpopulatedApr 25 15:49
CrystalMathand now its even more soApr 25 15:49
CrystalMathit's sickeningApr 25 15:49
CrystalMathCOVID-19 can't even cure overpopulation, much less kill us allApr 25 15:50
MinceR"Guns don't kill people, I do!"Apr 25 15:50
CrystalMathMinceR: guns don't kill people, try harder!Apr 25 15:51
CrystalMath:PApr 25 15:51
CrystalMathoiaohm: maybe the coronavirus measures have a better chance at reducing overpopulation, not that i think about it :DApr 25 15:51
CrystalMath*now thatApr 25 15:51
MinceRCrystalMath: "Only my weapon understands me!"Apr 25 15:52
CrystalMathMinceR: by try harder i mean, use nukes, A-bombs, etc...Apr 25 15:52
oiaohmCrystalMath: when it comes to over population first wave of covid-19 will basically do nothing long term as it almost killing zero of the breading population.Apr 25 15:53
CrystalMathbut the economic crisis willApr 25 15:54
oiaohmQuestion is what are covid-19 next waves of infection look like.Apr 25 15:54
CrystalMaththe world CANNOT handle thisApr 25 15:54
oiaohmNo its us humans are are bad at handling this.Apr 25 15:54
CrystalMaththe current lockdowns are enough to kill way more than 10%Apr 25 15:54
CrystalMathoiaohm: well who else are you working for?Apr 25 15:55
CrystalMathSarbecovirus?Apr 25 15:55
CrystalMathi say we can make a deal, between humans and SARS-CoV-2Apr 25 15:55
CrystalMathit gets to infect us, and we quarantine only the sickApr 25 15:55
CrystalMathwe could teach it to infect us asymptomaticallyApr 25 15:56
oiaohmReally we stopped quarantine the sick because we wanted to make more profit.Apr 25 15:56
oiaohmYou think how often in many countries you are sick you had to get a doctors certificate to say you were sick enough not to go to work.Apr 25 15:56
CrystalMaththis is why i always go to work with the fluApr 25 15:57
oiaohmHumans have got really lazy/bad dealing with viruses correctly.Apr 25 15:57
CrystalMathi refuse to use doctorsApr 25 15:57
CrystalMathand medical helpApr 25 15:57
CrystalMathfortunately i don't work all year longApr 25 15:57
oiaohmHistoric times you would have been executed for that.Apr 25 15:57
CrystalMathhow so?Apr 25 15:57
CrystalMathand which part?Apr 25 15:58
oiaohmHistoric disease controls were you turned up to work sick you were a murder so got beheaded of hung.Apr 25 15:58
CrystalMathwhere?Apr 25 15:58
CrystalMathhere in the 19th century it happened all the timeApr 25 15:58
CrystalMathidk about ottoman, byzantine, or roman timesApr 25 15:59
CrystalMathwell, late ottoman empire, it was okayApr 25 15:59
CrystalMathidk about the early periodApr 25 15:59
CrystalMatharound the plagueApr 25 15:59
oiaohmAustralia not that old early penal colony those rules were still in place.Apr 25 16:00
oiaohmFrom UK end EU.Apr 25 16:00
CrystalMathoiaohm: since when? because before the 18th century we did not know anything about virusesApr 25 16:00
CrystalMathonly "bad air"Apr 25 16:00
CrystalMathaka miasmaApr 25 16:00
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CrystalMathoiaohm: plague masks had air fresheners insideApr 25 16:01
CrystalMathbecause "bad air" causes disease, not other peopleApr 25 16:01
CrystalMathcertainly not tiny microscopic organismsApr 25 16:01
CrystalMaththen, even before that, you had "demons cause disease"Apr 25 16:02
oiaohmCrystalMath: 18th cenery before Australia penal colony was setup viruses and bacteria had been discovered and marked as the cause of illnesses.Apr 25 16:02
CrystalMathoiaohm: yes but before that, we knew nothing about that stuffApr 25 16:02
oiaohmOnce we did we started doing the right things.Apr 25 16:02
oiaohmthen we stopped doing the right things.Apr 25 16:02
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oiaohmand its been bitting us on the ass yearly with number of workers in fact sick and the like.Apr 25 16:03
CrystalMathoiaohm: as someone who is anti-society, i would prefer it if people lost their massive organization, so i'm satisfied with the regressionApr 25 16:03
oiaohmWe kind of got use to viruses being fairly much non lethal or lightly lethal that medical treatment would work.Apr 25 16:04
oiaohmmost of the time.Apr 25 16:04
CrystalMathbefore miasma was fully accepted there was also the theory that demons cause diseaseApr 25 16:04
CrystalMathand that the cure is being a true believing christianApr 25 16:04
CrystalMathand if you die anyway, well, you lied about being a true believer, your fault :PApr 25 16:05
oiaohmReally even at the time of miasma there wre different areas that disagreed.Apr 25 16:05
CrystalMathit was even more fun before that, when ghosts of people were to blameApr 25 16:05
oiaohmYou have to remember china herbal and groups like it never believed in the miasma idea.Apr 25 16:06
oiaohmOr the church idea.Apr 25 16:06
CrystalMathso yeah for most of history, there is no way that one would be executed for working while sickApr 25 16:06
CrystalMathoiaohm: mainly the thing with me is that i refuse all medical careApr 25 16:06
oiaohmchina 2000 years BC.  Turning up to work knownly sick was also death.Apr 25 16:06
CrystalMath[citation needed]Apr 25 16:07
oiaohmDue to how much distruption you could cause by spreading illness.Apr 25 16:07
oiaohmThey did not understand illness that well but they understood it spread person to person.Apr 25 16:07
CrystalMathalso, i have citations for the fact that china DID believe in miasma theoryApr 25 16:07
oiaohmDepends on the time frame of china.Apr 25 16:07
CrystalMathand that the earth was flatApr 25 16:07
oiaohmChina has no records that the earth was flat.Apr 25 16:08
CrystalMath 25 16:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Flat Earth - WikipediaApr 25 16:08
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CrystalMathoiaohm: for the record, work is also the place where i GET sick, 99% of the timeApr 25 16:11
CrystalMathoiaohm: because others do the sameApr 25 16:11
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oiaohmCrystalMath:  that Ming Dynasty one is a mess and a half.    You start off early in the Ming Dynasty them exploring and thinking of the earth as kind of round.   Then when they close boarders the flat story and edge of world crap appears.Apr 25 16:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Ming treasure voyages - WikipediaApr 25 16:17
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oiaohmSo flat earth china was a very political thing.Apr 25 16:18
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oiaohmLot of documents in the ming time frame don't agree one way or the other.Apr 25 16:19
oiaohmCrystalMath: basically ming time frame you wrote the world was round or flat all depending on who was going to read the document.Apr 25 16:20
oiaohmSo not a univeral beleive thing.Apr 25 16:20
CrystalMathit was strong enough to persist into the 16th century :PApr 25 16:25
CrystalMathas evidenced by jesuits who went thereApr 25 16:25
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XRevan86"Did the US of A believe in the Greenhouse effect in at the start of the XXI century?"Apr 25 16:29
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XRevan86They wrote it exists or not depending on who was going to read the document. So not a univeral beleive thing.Apr 25 16:29
schestowitz[16:29] <XRevan86> "Did the US of A believe in the Greenhouse effect in at the start of the XXI century?"Apr 25 16:29
schestowitzbelieve is the key wordApr 25 16:30
schestowitzthey treat that like wing politicsApr 25 16:30
schestowitzor faithApr 25 16:30
schestowitzbtu gravity has more gravity thereApr 25 16:30
schestowitznot many people deny itApr 25 16:30
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CrystalMathi'm against the green measurements that are proposed, and i propose a different oneApr 25 16:30
CrystalMathSTOP HAVING BABIESApr 25 16:30
XRevan86schestowitz: Well, I meant it in a more general sense, but yea :)Apr 25 16:31
CrystalMaththat's all that's needed, we don't need ebola nor covid to wipe us out, we just need to stop having babies RIGHT NOWApr 25 16:31
CrystalMathand the world will be a greener placeApr 25 16:31
CrystalMathi have zero children and it will remain so foreverApr 25 16:32
XRevan86CrystalMath: What steps would you take to implement your proposal?Apr 25 16:32
XRevan86as a single person somewhere in powerApr 25 16:32
CrystalMathXRevan86: remove all government assistance for people with childrenApr 25 16:33
CrystalMathabsolutely all, including softened loansApr 25 16:33
CrystalMathhaving a child will become like starting a companyApr 25 16:33
XRevan86CrystalMath: Now Russia's sparse population is even more sparse. Mission accomplished?Apr 25 16:33
CrystalMathXRevan86: i understand the weak success of that, vs. doing this in china or indiaApr 25 16:34
CrystalMathbut there are things we can do for the worldApr 25 16:34
CrystalMathlike supporting variants of christianity other than catholicism in latin americaApr 25 16:34
CrystalMathcatholicism bans contraception more strongly than any other religionApr 25 16:35
CrystalMathand this is a huge cause of the problemApr 25 16:35
CrystalMathso attacking catholicism helps the entire worldApr 25 16:35
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XRevan86Eastern Orthodox Christianity in Latin America for the win! It has a similiar stance on abortions and contraception, but whateverApr 25 16:54
XRevan86Which looks on catholicism as on downright liberalsApr 25 16:58
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 25/4/2020: Wine 5.7, LXQt 0.15 Released, Ubuntu 20.10 Will Identity as “Groovy Gorilla” []Apr 25 17:11
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MinceR25 173051 < CrystalMath> STOP HAVING BABIESApr 25 17:25
MinceRsecondedApr 25 17:25
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4452689)Apr 25 21:04
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MinceR 25 23:46
schestowitzlolApr 25 23:55
schestowitznice oneApr 25 23:55

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