Join us now at the IRC channel.
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| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/YG1Kh08.png | Oct 29 00:08 |
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| chomwitt | https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8a104f8b5867c682d994ffa7a74093c54469c11f | Oct 29 01:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.kernel.org | kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree | Oct 29 01:00 | |
| chomwitt | strange stuff | Oct 29 01:00 |
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| chomwitt | https://www.contributor-covenant.org/adopters | Oct 29 01:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.contributor-covenant.org | Contributor Covenant: Adopters | Oct 29 01:05 | |
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| chomwitt | https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/procurement/supplier-conduct.aspx?activetab=pivot%3aprimaryr4 | Oct 29 01:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft Supplier Code of Conduct | Microsoft Procurement | Oct 29 01:08 | |
| chomwitt | does ms push for this stuff? | Oct 29 01:08 |
| schestowitz | it does | Oct 29 01:09 |
| schestowitz | they even say so to justify this in FOSS | Oct 29 01:16 |
| schestowitz | chomwitt: thanks for the Coleman links | Oct 29 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I did not see these befoee | Oct 29 01:21 |
| schestowitz | it does help when we go back and analyse this defamation | Oct 29 01:21 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu: LXD Security, ROS EOL and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129826 [https://pleroma.site/objects/260bfd38-639c-447a-a579-e6783bef728d] | Oct 29 01:46 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 : Part 1 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129825 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bb282f23-03d3-435e-b58d-08a2f508cbce] | Oct 29 01:48 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top Linux developer on Intel chip security problems: 'They're not going away.' http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129823 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5a55ef84-08a3-444b-9abc-d32dda411aa6] | Oct 29 01:53 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: SiFive shows off tiny, Cortex-A72-like RISC-V core http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129822 [https://pleroma.site/objects/055bf1fb-c6b0-4b2f-91db-cf374959f8c0] | Oct 29 01:54 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introduction to App Packages on Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129821 [https://pleroma.site/objects/886d8ff0-38df-4678-89c0-109fdd3b0c24] | Oct 29 01:56 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 4 best Adobe Acrobat alternatives for Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129828 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5585066c-d91c-45d6-9028-03d4c66f6e3c] | Oct 29 01:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 4 best audio converter tools for Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129829 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4f12778d-fe89-4cc3-906b-43c492967593] | Oct 29 02:02 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Happy St Patrick’s Day, IFSO AGM and meeting sock puppets http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129830 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9a059a8b-3646-4c08-81bc-a2a88098f3e8] | Oct 29 02:07 | |
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| aindilis | is FSF still trustworthy? | Oct 29 02:30 |
| aindilis | simple yes/no | Oct 29 02:30 |
| aindilis | wondering whether to assign them copyright over 20 years of work | Oct 29 02:31 |
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| oiaohm | aindilis: still trustworthy is really the wrong question. As trustworthy as they ever were under closer inspection most likely yes. Its like why the Linux kernel is not under GPlv2 and latter but under pure GPLv2 | Oct 29 02:51 |
| oiaohm | You normally don't have the legal force to enforce copyrights without getting funding from somewhere and that somewhere is normally companies. | Oct 29 02:52 |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: the CoC sign off don't include Microsoft. Microsoft code of conduct on suppliers starts in 1995 its not even a new thing yes Microsoft has got to providing their own training program for their CoC so they can profit from the enforcement as well.. | Oct 29 03:02 |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: for a lot of hardware makers and commerical software suppliers Microsoft was late to the party having a CoC. | Oct 29 03:03 |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: the companies on the Linux CoC signature list. Facebook, Intel , lwm, lxom(specialist in water treatment) kihon technologles(that is a goodmis one) that is basically a solo trader and the Linux foundation. So quite a interesting mix really. | Oct 29 03:09 |
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| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/zoobab/status/1188870348000894976 | Oct 29 05:03 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@zoobab: OIN lobbying the Gnome Foundation to use prior art instead of Alice to avoid the subject matter eligibility #oin #ibm #swpat | Oct 29 05:03 | |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: https://www.wipo.int/wipo_magazine/en/2019/04/article_0006.html alice is quite a shotgun when it works. | Oct 29 06:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.wipo.int | In the courts: five years after Alice - five lessons learned from the treatment of software patents in litigation | Oct 29 06:11 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: as it can take out complete classes of patents in a single pen stroke. | Oct 29 06:11 |
| schestowitz | yup | Oct 29 06:25 |
| oiaohm | Problem is it getting harder to make alice works. So you should have a prior art defence lined up even if you are going alice as well. | Oct 29 07:25 |
| MinceR | 29 033043 < aindilis> is FSF still trustworthy? | Oct 29 07:25 |
| MinceR | no, they support systemd | Oct 29 07:25 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: don't like your personal bias get too far ahead of oneself. https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Shepherd | Oct 29 07:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-directory.fsf.org | Shepherd - Free Software Directory | Oct 29 07:27 | |
| oiaohm | MinceR: FSF systemd page notes shepherd existance but the Shepherd page pretends systemd does not exist. | Oct 29 07:28 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: the Free Software Definition is not personal bias and neither is red hat's entryism and political trickery | Oct 29 07:49 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i get that you like atrocious software, but you shouldn't confuse that with free software | Oct 29 07:49 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: they are agnostic about systemd | Oct 29 08:14 |
| schestowitz | they don't "support" it | Oct 29 08:14 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: rms claimed it's free software; other members supported it more vocally | Oct 29 08:15 |
| MinceR | i left their irc channels because i got tired of the drone of the cancerd cultists | Oct 29 08:15 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: FSF puts more support into Shepherd like the way they put more support into Hurd back in the day. | Oct 29 08:23 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: FSF history of backing the underdog that does not end up winning and they have not stopped doing that. | Oct 29 08:23 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe RMS successors would endorse it | Oct 29 08:23 |
| schestowitz | who knows... | Oct 29 08:23 |
| schestowitz | afaik RMS never did | Oct 29 08:23 |
| schestowitz | they did try to entrap him | Oct 29 08:23 |
| schestowitz | to get him to say something negative so that they - t he crybullies - can then attack him | Oct 29 08:24 |
| schestowitz | this is well documented BTW | Oct 29 08:24 |
| MinceR | 29 092344 < schestowitz> MinceR: maybe RMS successors would endorse it | Oct 29 08:25 |
| MinceR | maybe | Oct 29 08:25 |
| MinceR | but i won't bet on it | Oct 29 08:25 |
| oiaohm | Its more likely the succeessors will back shepherd. | Oct 29 08:26 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: the idea of FSF supporting systemd has not been the case. Odds are that its not going to change soon. This is nothing todo with red hat's entryism and political trickery. | Oct 29 08:28 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/fsf-announces-support-for-gnu-guix Part of this fund raising is in fact raising money to fund development on shepherd. | Oct 29 08:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fsf.org | FSF announces fundraising support for GNU Guix, a new approach to GNU/Linux — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software | Oct 29 08:29 | |
| oiaohm | MinceR: basically FSF mentions systemd while funding and supporting development of a replacement. | Oct 29 08:29 |
| oiaohm | So how are they pro systemd when they are attempting to replace it. | Oct 29 08:30 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: reality here both FSF and Gentoo are attempting to develop other alternatives to systemd. What do you call the gentoo developers systemd supporting as well???? | Oct 29 08:41 |
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| XRevan86 | First proper snow here. | Oct 29 09:34 |
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| schestowitz | https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2017/09/learning-scratch-kids-day-open-source-summit/ | Oct 29 09:49 |
| schestowitz | lol | Oct 29 09:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxfoundation.org | Learning from Scratch: Kids Day at Open Source Summit - The Linux Foundation | Oct 29 09:49 | |
| schestowitz | https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/linuxcon-hosts-kids-day-to-bring-together-next-generation-of-technologists-from-diverse-backgrounds-2016-06-21 | Oct 29 09:51 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-LinuxCon Hosts Kids Day to Bring Together Next-Generation of Technologists From Diverse Backgrounds - MarketWatch | Oct 29 09:51 | |
| schestowitz | given to rich kids | Oct 29 09:51 |
| schestowitz | not poor kids | Oct 29 09:51 |
| schestowitz | in the name of "diversity" | Oct 29 09:51 |
| schestowitz | wow | Oct 29 09:51 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129843 [https://pleroma.site/objects/408c2f22-666c-42dd-b175-481d1412c542] | Oct 29 10:15 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 29/10/2019: D9VK 0.30 Released and KernelCI Joins the Linux Foundation http://techrights.org/2019/10/29/d9vk-0-30-released/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/60066f34-e9cb-430a-9419-9728c8722634] | Oct 29 10:28 | |
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| chomwitt | schestowitz: your welcome. the Coleman tweets show how there wasnt an rms deed. many 'actors' were 'set' waiting for targets , each one with his own agenta covering a whole spectrum from harrasment accusations way far to 'he is dirty!' | Oct 29 11:34 |
| chomwitt | and in cases like the famous mono developer ,there is also the motive of revenge. | Oct 29 11:34 |
| chomwitt | oiaohm: CoC is not just code. so i wonder are there community procedures in the linux 'community' about that CoC having a consensus and being approved? | Oct 29 11:39 |
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| chomwitt | that 'kihon' martial japanese art stuff brings really oriental flavor to the mix.. | Oct 29 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | chomwitt: The hard part about business CoC is that the one owning the workplace set it in fact. So only the linuxfoundation.org members in fact need to sign off on it as they are the ones who are operating the primary servers.. | Oct 29 13:01 |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/process/2.Process.html#the-lifecycle-of-a-patch the complete development process of the Linux kernel does not have a consensus requirement. | Oct 29 13:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.kernel.org | 2. How the development process works — The Linux Kernel documentation | Oct 29 13:01 | |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life this title does not exist in the open source world for no reason. | Oct 29 13:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Benevolent dictator for life - Wikipedia | Oct 29 13:02 | |
| oiaohm | Development is not democracy in most cases. | Oct 29 13:03 |
| oiaohm | chomwitt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition_and_the_Four_Freedoms you see free speech used to attempt to explain the concept of free software/open source software but it completely skips over that most open source software is not is not a democracy system where people have votes and consensus. Instead most are in fact individual dictatorships that if a dictator is too hard the open source allows that dictator to be forked. | Oct 29 13:09 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Free software - Wikipedia | Oct 29 13:09 | |
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| schestowitz | chomwitt: which mono dev? | Oct 29 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Can you name him (can't think of a her there) | Oct 29 15:06 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: you're confusing fsf with gentoo | Oct 29 15:38 |
| MinceR | they're not the same | Oct 29 15:38 |
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| MinceR | also, shepherd is much older than cancerd (though it used to be called dmd) | Oct 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | < | Oct 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | What the fork do #microsoft employee and #mono pushers do inside planet #debian | Oct 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | So Debian censors (deletes) actual #gnu #linux developers and adds Microsoft stuff that attacks Linux??? | Oct 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | https://apebox.org/wordpress/detritus/1289 | Oct 29 15:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-APEBOX.ORG » Archive » My name is Jo and this is home now | Oct 29 15:39 | |
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| MinceR | afaik it comes from hurd, which they've since started killing off | Oct 29 15:39 |
| MinceR | with systemd | Oct 29 15:39 |
| MinceR | https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/open_issues/systemd.html | Oct 29 15:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gnu.org | systemd | Oct 29 15:40 | |
| MinceR | so if i were you, i wouldn't make any bets regarding the longevity of shepherd | Oct 29 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: hmm... never seen this page | Oct 29 16:03 |
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| MinceR | strange | Oct 29 16:04 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Kills Off The ‘Cashew’, Replaces It With Something Less Nutty http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129851 [https://pleroma.site/objects/904fd5e8-579c-4966-bbc0-c99679e01dec] | Oct 29 16:28 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129859 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4de61d5b-9db5-49cc-b113-22d299a8934f] | Oct 29 17:27 | |
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| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/10/18/a85bd906382b6b5f.jpg | Oct 29 17:53 |
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| MinceR | https://imgur.com/gallery/QO3vf5s | Oct 29 17:55 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facepalm newspaper headlines - Album on Imgur | Oct 29 17:55 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: what is this glyph? | Oct 29 17:58 |
| MinceR | dunno | Oct 29 17:58 |
| XRevan86 | G? Ъ? | Oct 29 17:58 |
| MinceR | probably of the same kind as the small ones :> | Oct 29 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Re: systemd once again | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Anonymous wrote on 29/10/2019 15:55:> Hi, | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > Have you analyzed chain of events? Fedora hacked ---> leader of systemd, | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > Arch hacked--> zero systemd, openrc removed from archwiki, gentoo | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > (still has openRC-albeit wrong wiki)-->hacked (results??) | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > slackware based Czech distro changes its base to Debian(systemd). | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > Debian (october) has "issues" posted by leader with non systemd init diversity. | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > Can you look at the chain of events. Am I paranoid since dnf can remove | Oct 29 18:00 |
| schestowitz | > kernel and run headless systemd?? | Oct 29 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | Bravo has been good this past year. Strong squad tonight. | Oct 29 18:45 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/ManCity/status/1189251805261127680 | Oct 29 18:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ManCity: How we line-up against the Saints! 💪 XI | Bravo, Walker, Otamendi, Garcia, Angeliño, Doyle, Foden, Mahrez, Bernard… https://t.co/ysIrZ6YzWh | Oct 29 18:45 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ManCity: How we line-up against the Saints! 💪 XI | Bravo, Walker, Otamendi, Garcia, Angeliño, Doyle, Foden, Mahrez, Bernard… https://t.co/ysIrZ6YzWh | Oct 29 18:45 | |
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| chomwitt | oiaohm: thanks for the link | Oct 29 20:46 |
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| chomwitt | schestowitz: miguel icaza | Oct 29 21:00 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: also, shepherd is much older than cancerd (though it used to be called dmd)<< Exactly FSF/GNU started to attempt to replace sysvinit well before systemd with dmd/shepherd starting in 2003. "you're confusing fsf with gentoo" when it releates to init systems both FSF and gentoo are behind developing the competition. Ie gentoo=openrc and FSF=shepherd. | Oct 29 21:48 |
| MinceR | like i said a few thousand times already, no, i'm not buying systemd, go away | Oct 29 21:49 |
| MinceR | i'll need to write an alias for this | Oct 29 21:49 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: I am not say you have to by systemd. But you don't need to say FSF backs it when that is not the case. | Oct 29 21:52 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: and has never been the case. | Oct 29 21:52 |
| oiaohm | You hate systemd FSF work on shepherd might be where you should be directing people. Of course that is if you don't hate shepherd more. | Oct 29 21:53 |
| MinceR | i'm sorry, when rms says something is free software, then one has to assume he knows what he wrote in the FSD (because he wrote it) and so it's pretty clear what he means by that if he's consistent | Oct 29 21:53 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: have you ever tried shepherd? | Oct 29 21:53 |
| MinceR | i don't mind shepherd, i fear for its future | Oct 29 21:53 |
| MinceR | no | Oct 29 21:53 |
| MinceR | i don't have this "the house is on fire" feeling about init that you people are trying to promote | Oct 29 21:54 |
| oiaohm | Have you in fact tried to use Shepherd?? | Oct 29 21:57 |
| oiaohm | I would say no. | Oct 29 21:57 |
| MinceR | 29 225352 < MinceR> no | Oct 29 21:58 |
| MinceR | can you even read? | Oct 29 21:58 |
| oiaohm | You think systemd Unit files are horrible. Shepherd manages to have something more complex | Oct 29 21:58 |
| MinceR | good for you | Oct 29 22:00 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/manual/html_node/Service-Examples.html here the example for you. | Oct 29 22:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Failed to connect to 2001:470:142:3::a: Network is unreachable ( status 0 @ https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/manual/html_node/Service-Examples.html ) | Oct 29 22:00 | |
| MinceR | i see GNU can't afford to keep their servers running anymore | Oct 29 22:01 |
| MinceR | well, it's been fun while it lasted | Oct 29 22:01 |
| oiaohm | Yes a system where something not going to start correctly because you miss place a bracket and fail to include a proper marker to comment what you are doing. | Oct 29 22:01 |
| MinceR | sounds like systemd | Oct 29 22:02 |
| oiaohm | I am describing sheperd. | Oct 29 22:02 |
| MinceR | where using the wrong value for the correct key can lead to systemd silently ignoring all your changes to your unit | Oct 29 22:02 |
| oiaohm | shepherd | Oct 29 22:02 |
| oiaohm | Yep shepherd does that as well. | Oct 29 22:02 |
| MinceR | at least nobody's trying to force shepherd on me | Oct 29 22:03 |
| MinceR | so it's got that going for it | Oct 29 22:03 |
| MinceR | also, it isn't also doing the job of 13 other daemons wrong :> | Oct 29 22:03 |
| oiaohm | If you want to use binaries straight from GNU they force shepherd on you. | Oct 29 22:03 |
| MinceR | well, i can't get them anyway since their site is down, so another bullet dodged :> | Oct 29 22:05 |
| MinceR | also, nobody infiltrated the distro i was using to try and force me to use shepherd | Oct 29 22:08 |
| oiaohm | systemd if you are looking for where the design comes from. Its concepts SMF from solaris, launchd from OS X and shepherd from FSF/GNU all mixed to make systemd. In some ways you might blame FSF for some of the concepts in systemd but these are concepts that started in dmd/shepherd. | Oct 29 22:09 |
| MinceR | spare me the old fidesz argument | Oct 29 22:10 |
| MinceR | it didn't work the first time i heard it either | Oct 29 22:11 |
| MinceR | "we made this constitution (which we call basic law, but we still call the constitutional court a constitutional court) by copying bits from constitutions of respected states so it must be acceptable as it is" | Oct 29 22:11 |
| oiaohm | I did not say this was acceptable process. | Oct 29 22:14 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: I am not really making the fidesz argument. What I was wrote about SMF, launchd and shepherd if you go through the systemd init/service manage source you will find comments about where ideas in it have come from. | Oct 29 22:27 |
| oiaohm | Saying FSF supports systemd is wrong when they are backing shepherd the fact shepherd is really not better solution is does not really help things. | Oct 29 22:28 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure if they're really backing shepherd | Oct 29 22:29 |
| oiaohm | They have been paying developers to work on it. | Oct 29 22:29 |
| oiaohm | and it still horrible. | Oct 29 22:29 |
| MinceR | that doesn't differentiate it from 99% of the software industry | Oct 29 22:30 |
| MinceR | especially not from systemd | Oct 29 22:31 |
| MinceR | but note the past tense there | Oct 29 22:31 |
| oiaohm | Lot of ways I like openrc. | Oct 29 22:32 |
| oiaohm | It has the cgroup feature you need to for process tracking and a not insanely complex configuration system. | Oct 29 22:32 |
| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/10/18/cd3794fa18b238bb.jpg | Oct 29 22:33 |
| MinceR | plus it can work without cgroups | Oct 29 22:33 |
| oiaohm | When you are on a Linux kernel or hurd kernel(yes hurd has the same process tracking problem as the Linux kernel don't know why that was copied) cgroups is something you need support for at times just for debugging sanity. Openrc aiming at cross kernel cgroups being option is required. | Oct 29 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes being optional is useful for inside containers. | Oct 29 22:37 |
| oiaohm | Its not like for a container that is already inside a cgroup that you need cgroups inside that container all that time. You can still debug back to the problem is in that container than turn cgroups on inside that one to debug deeper. | Oct 29 22:38 |
| oiaohm | The optional cgroup feature of openrc I find great. | Oct 29 22:39 |
| MinceR | i find it great that it's optional | Oct 29 22:39 |
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| oiaohm | the cgroup support is something I need to be able to turn on at least on Linux kernels. If I used hurd I would need it over there as well. That is why not having it is a deal breaker with sysvinit, runit without openrc and so on because you are missing what you need debug stuff when things go wrong simply. . | Oct 29 22:44 |
| oiaohm | Of course openbsd and freebsd have done posix process information right so they don't need this extra tracking stuff so you can debug them sanely. | Oct 29 22:45 |
| MinceR | https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/08/12/893e8b7ba5abd726.mp4 | Oct 29 22:47 |
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