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MinceR 29 00:08
chomwitt 29 01:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source treeOct 29 01:00
chomwittstrange stuffOct 29 01:00
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Contributor Covenant: AdoptersOct 29 01:05
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft Supplier Code of Conduct | Microsoft ProcurementOct 29 01:08
chomwittdoes ms push for this stuff?Oct 29 01:08
schestowitzit doesOct 29 01:09
schestowitzthey even say so to justify this in FOSSOct 29 01:16
schestowitzchomwitt: thanks for the Coleman linksOct 29 01:21
schestowitzI did not see these befoeeOct 29 01:21
schestowitzit does help when we go back and analyse this defamationOct 29 01:21
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Foundation in 'Data Monetisation' Business []Oct 29 01:36
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu: LXD Security, ROS EOL and More []Oct 29 01:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Sad Saga of Purism and the Librem 5 : Part 1 []Oct 29 01:48
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introduction to App Packages on Linux []Oct 29 01:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 4 best Adobe Acrobat alternatives for Linux []Oct 29 01:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 4 best audio converter tools for Linux []Oct 29 02:02
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Happy St Patrick’s Day, IFSO AGM and meeting sock puppets []Oct 29 02:07
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: AMD Linux Graphics Driver Prepping "DMCUB" Support For Renoir APUs []Oct 29 02:25
aindilisis FSF still trustworthy?Oct 29 02:30
aindilissimple yes/noOct 29 02:30
aindiliswondering whether to assign them copyright over 20 years of workOct 29 02:31
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oiaohmaindilis: still trustworthy is really the wrong question.   As trustworthy as they ever were under closer inspection most likely yes.   Its like why the Linux kernel is not under GPlv2 and latter but under pure GPLv2Oct 29 02:51
oiaohmYou normally don't have the legal force to enforce copyrights without getting funding from somewhere and that somewhere is normally companies.Oct 29 02:52
oiaohmchomwitt: the CoC sign off don't include Microsoft.  Microsoft code of conduct on suppliers starts in 1995 its not even a new thing yes Microsoft has got to providing their own training program for their CoC so they can profit from the enforcement as well..Oct 29 03:02
oiaohmchomwitt: for a lot of hardware makers and commerical software suppliers Microsoft was late to the party having a CoC.Oct 29 03:03
oiaohmchomwitt: the companies on the Linux CoC signature list.   Facebook,  Intel , lwm,   lxom(specialist in water treatment)  kihon technologles(that is a goodmis one) that is basically a solo trader and the Linux foundation.   So quite a interesting mix really.Oct 29 03:09
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Updates, Firewalls and ARIN []Oct 29 04:47
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schestowitz 29 05:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@zoobab: OIN lobbying the Gnome Foundation to use prior art instead of Alice to avoid the subject matter eligibility #oin #ibm #swpatOct 29 05:03
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oiaohmschestowitz:  alice is quite a shotgun when it works.Oct 29 06:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | In the courts: five years after Alice - five lessons learned from the treatment of software patents in litigationOct 29 06:11
oiaohmschestowitz: as it can take out complete classes of patents in a single pen stroke.Oct 29 06:11
schestowitzyupOct 29 06:25
oiaohmProblem is it getting harder to make alice works.   So you should have a prior art defence lined up even if you are going alice as well.Oct 29 07:25
MinceR29 033043 < aindilis> is FSF still trustworthy?Oct 29 07:25
MinceRno, they support systemdOct 29 07:25
oiaohmMinceR: don't like your personal bias get too far ahead of oneself. 29 07:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Shepherd - Free Software DirectoryOct 29 07:27
oiaohmMinceR: FSF systemd page notes shepherd existance but the Shepherd page pretends systemd does not exist.Oct 29 07:28
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MinceRoiaohm: the Free Software Definition is not personal bias and neither is red hat's entryism and political trickeryOct 29 07:49
MinceRoiaohm: i get that you like atrocious software, but you shouldn't confuse that with free softwareOct 29 07:49
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schestowitzMinceR: they are agnostic about systemdOct 29 08:14
schestowitzthey don't "support" itOct 29 08:14
MinceRschestowitz: rms claimed it's free software; other members supported it more vocallyOct 29 08:15
MinceRi left their irc channels because i got tired of the drone of the cancerd cultistsOct 29 08:15
oiaohmMinceR: FSF puts more support into Shepherd like the way they put more support into Hurd back in the day.Oct 29 08:23
oiaohmMinceR: FSF history of backing the underdog that does not end up winning and they have not stopped doing that.Oct 29 08:23
schestowitzMinceR: maybe RMS successors would endorse itOct 29 08:23
schestowitzwho knows...Oct 29 08:23
schestowitzafaik RMS never didOct 29 08:23
schestowitzthey did try to entrap himOct 29 08:23
schestowitzto get him to say something negative so that they - t he crybullies - can then attack himOct 29 08:24
schestowitzthis is well documented BTWOct 29 08:24
MinceR29 092344 < schestowitz> MinceR: maybe RMS successors would endorse itOct 29 08:25
MinceRmaybeOct 29 08:25
MinceRbut i won't bet on itOct 29 08:25
oiaohmIts more likely the succeessors will back shepherd.Oct 29 08:26
oiaohmMinceR: the idea of FSF supporting systemd has not been the case.     Odds are that its not going to change soon.   This is nothing todo with red hat's entryism and political trickery.Oct 29 08:28
oiaohmMinceR: Part of this fund raising is in fact raising money to fund development on shepherd.Oct 29 08:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | FSF announces fundraising support for GNU Guix, a new approach to GNU/Linux — Free Software Foundation — working together for free softwareOct 29 08:29
oiaohmMinceR: basically FSF mentions systemd while funding and supporting development of a replacement.Oct 29 08:29
oiaohmSo how are they pro systemd when they are attempting to replace it.Oct 29 08:30
oiaohmMinceR: reality here both FSF and Gentoo are attempting to develop other alternatives to systemd.   What do you call the gentoo developers systemd supporting as well????Oct 29 08:41
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Demystifying namespaces and containers in Linux []Oct 29 09:21
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XRevan86First proper snow here.Oct 29 09:34
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schestowitz 29 09:49
schestowitzlolOct 29 09:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Learning from Scratch: Kids Day at Open Source Summit - The Linux FoundationOct 29 09:49
schestowitz 29 09:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-LinuxCon Hosts Kids Day to Bring Together Next-Generation of Technologists From Diverse Backgrounds - MarketWatchOct 29 09:51
schestowitzgiven to rich kids Oct 29 09:51
schestowitznot poor kidsOct 29 09:51
schestowitzin the name of "diversity"Oct 29 09:51
schestowitzwowOct 29 09:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Oct 29 10:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Oct 29 10:22
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 29/10/2019: D9VK 0.30 Released and KernelCI Joins the Linux Foundation []Oct 29 10:28
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chomwittschestowitz: your welcome. the Coleman tweets show how there wasnt an rms deed. many 'actors' were 'set' waiting for targets , each one with his own agenta covering a whole spectrum from harrasment accusations way far to 'he is dirty!'Oct 29 11:34
chomwittand in cases like the famous mono developer ,there is also the motive of revenge.Oct 29 11:34
chomwittoiaohm: CoC is not just code. so i wonder are there community procedures in the linux 'community' about that CoC having a consensus and being approved?Oct 29 11:39
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chomwittthat 'kihon' martial japanese art stuff brings really oriental flavor to the mix..Oct 29 11:44
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oiaohmchomwitt: The hard part about business CoC is that the one owning the workplace set it in fact.   So only the members in fact need to sign off on it as they are the ones who are operating the primary servers..Oct 29 13:01
oiaohmchomwitt: the complete development process of the Linux kernel does not have a consensus requirement.Oct 29 13:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | 2. How the development process works — The Linux Kernel documentationOct 29 13:01
oiaohmchomwitt:  this title does not exist in the open source world for no reason.Oct 29 13:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Benevolent dictator for life - WikipediaOct 29 13:02
oiaohmDevelopment is not democracy in most cases. Oct 29 13:03
oiaohmchomwitt:  you see free speech used to attempt to explain the concept of free software/open source software but it completely skips over that most open source software is not is not a democracy system where people have votes and consensus.  Instead most are in fact individual dictatorships that if a dictator is too hard the open source allows that dictator to be forked. Oct 29 13:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Free software - WikipediaOct 29 13:09
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schestowitzchomwitt: which mono dev?Oct 29 15:06
schestowitzCan you name him (can't think of a her there)Oct 29 15:06
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MinceRoiaohm: you're confusing fsf with gentooOct 29 15:38
MinceRthey're not the sameOct 29 15:38
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MinceRalso, shepherd is much older than cancerd (though it used to be called dmd)Oct 29 15:38
schestowitz<Oct 29 15:38
schestowitzWhat the fork do #microsoft employee and #mono pushers do inside planet #debian Oct 29 15:38
schestowitzSo Debian censors (deletes) actual #gnu #linux developers and adds Microsoft stuff that attacks Linux???Oct 29 15:38
schestowitz 29 15:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-APEBOX.ORG » Archive » My name is Jo and this is home nowOct 29 15:39
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MinceRafaik it comes from hurd, which they've since started killing offOct 29 15:39
MinceRwith systemdOct 29 15:39
MinceR 29 15:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | systemdOct 29 15:40
MinceRso if i were you, i wouldn't make any bets regarding the longevity of shepherdOct 29 15:40
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schestowitzMinceR: hmm... never seen this pageOct 29 16:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linus Torvalds: 'I'm not a programmer anymore' []Oct 29 16:03
MinceRstrangeOct 29 16:04
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 31: Peering into Red Hat Enterprise Linux's future []Oct 29 16:27
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Kills Off The ‘Cashew’, Replaces It With Something Less Nutty []Oct 29 16:28
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Free Password Manager KeePassXC 2.5.0 Adds Paper Backup, Database Statistics, Re-Enables Wayland Support []Oct 29 16:36
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facepalm newspaper headlines  - Album on ImgurOct 29 17:55
schestowitzMinceR: what is this glyph?Oct 29 17:58
MinceRdunnoOct 29 17:58
XRevan86G? Ъ?Oct 29 17:58
MinceRprobably of the same kind as the small ones :>Oct 29 17:59
schestowitzRe: systemd once againOct 29 18:00
schestowitzAnonymous wrote on 29/10/2019 15:55:> Hi,Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Have you analyzed chain of events? Fedora hacked ---> leader of systemd,Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Arch hacked--> zero systemd, openrc removed from archwiki, gentooOct 29 18:00
schestowitz> (still has openRC-albeit wrong wiki)-->hacked (results??)Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> slackware based Czech distro changes its base to Debian(systemd).Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Debian (october) has "issues" posted by leader with non systemd init diversity.Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Oct 29 18:00
schestowitz> Can you look at the chain of events. Am I paranoid since dnf can removeOct 29 18:00
schestowitz> kernel and run headless systemd??Oct 29 18:01
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schestowitzBravo has been good this past year. Strong squad tonight.Oct 29 18:45
schestowitz 29 18:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ManCity: How we line-up against the Saints! 💪 XI | Bravo, Walker, Otamendi, Garcia, Angeliño, Doyle, Foden, Mahrez, Bernard… 29 18:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ManCity: How we line-up against the Saints! 💪 XI | Bravo, Walker, Otamendi, Garcia, Angeliño, Doyle, Foden, Mahrez, Bernard… 29 18:45
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chomwittoiaohm: thanks for the linkOct 29 20:46
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chomwittschestowitz: miguel icazaOct 29 21:00
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oiaohmMinceR: also, shepherd is much older than cancerd (though it used to be called dmd)<< Exactly FSF/GNU  started to attempt to replace sysvinit well before systemd with dmd/shepherd starting in 2003.  "you're confusing fsf with gentoo" when it releates to init systems both FSF and gentoo are behind developing the competition.  Ie gentoo=openrc and FSF=shepherd.Oct 29 21:48
MinceRlike i said a few thousand times already, no, i'm not buying systemd, go awayOct 29 21:49
MinceRi'll need to write an alias for thisOct 29 21:49
oiaohmMinceR: I am not say you have to by systemd.   But you don't need to say FSF backs it when that is not the case.Oct 29 21:52
oiaohmMinceR: and has never been the case.Oct 29 21:52
oiaohmYou hate systemd FSF work on shepherd might be where you should be directing people.  Of course that is if you don't hate shepherd more.Oct 29 21:53
MinceRi'm sorry, when rms says something is free software, then one has to assume he knows what he wrote in the FSD (because he wrote it) and so it's pretty clear what he means by that if he's consistentOct 29 21:53
oiaohmMinceR: have you ever tried shepherd?Oct 29 21:53
MinceRi don't mind shepherd, i fear for its futureOct 29 21:53
MinceRnoOct 29 21:53
MinceRi don't have this "the house is on fire" feeling about init that you people are trying to promoteOct 29 21:54
oiaohmHave you in fact tried to use Shepherd??Oct 29 21:57
oiaohmI would say no.Oct 29 21:57
MinceR29 225352 < MinceR> noOct 29 21:58
MinceRcan you even read?Oct 29 21:58
oiaohmYou think systemd Unit files are horrible.   Shepherd manages to have something more complexOct 29 21:58
MinceRgood for youOct 29 22:00
oiaohmMinceR:  here the example for you.Oct 29 22:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Failed to connect to 2001:470:142:3::a: Network is unreachable ( status 0 @ )Oct 29 22:00
MinceRi see GNU can't afford to keep their servers running anymoreOct 29 22:01
MinceRwell, it's been fun while it lastedOct 29 22:01
oiaohmYes a system where something not going to start correctly because you miss place a bracket and fail to include a proper marker to comment what you are doing.Oct 29 22:01
MinceRsounds like systemdOct 29 22:02
oiaohmI am describing sheperd.Oct 29 22:02
MinceRwhere using the wrong value for the correct key can lead to systemd silently ignoring all your changes to your unitOct 29 22:02
oiaohmshepherdOct 29 22:02
oiaohmYep shepherd does that as well.Oct 29 22:02
MinceRat least nobody's trying to force shepherd on meOct 29 22:03
MinceRso it's got that going for itOct 29 22:03
MinceRalso, it isn't also doing the job of 13 other daemons wrong :>Oct 29 22:03
oiaohmIf you want to use binaries straight from GNU they force shepherd on you.Oct 29 22:03
MinceRwell, i can't get them anyway since their site is down, so another bullet dodged :>Oct 29 22:05
MinceRalso, nobody infiltrated the distro i was using to try and force me to use shepherdOct 29 22:08
oiaohmsystemd if you are looking for where the design comes from.   Its concepts SMF from solaris,  launchd from OS X and shepherd from FSF/GNU all mixed to make systemd.  In some ways you might blame FSF for some of the concepts in systemd but these are concepts that started in dmd/shepherd.Oct 29 22:09
MinceRspare me the old fidesz argumentOct 29 22:10
MinceRit didn't work the first time i heard it eitherOct 29 22:11
MinceR"we made this constitution (which we call basic law, but we still call the constitutional court a constitutional court) by copying bits from constitutions of respected states so it must be acceptable as it is"Oct 29 22:11
oiaohmI did not say this was acceptable process.Oct 29 22:14
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oiaohmMinceR: I am not really making the fidesz argument.   What I was wrote about SMF, launchd and shepherd if you go through the systemd init/service manage source you will find comments about where ideas in it have come from.Oct 29 22:27
oiaohmSaying FSF supports systemd is wrong when they are backing shepherd  the fact shepherd is really not better solution is does not really help things.Oct 29 22:28
MinceRi'm not sure if they're really backing shepherdOct 29 22:29
oiaohmThey have been paying developers to work on it.Oct 29 22:29
oiaohmand it still horrible.Oct 29 22:29
MinceRthat doesn't differentiate it from 99% of the software industryOct 29 22:30
MinceRespecially not from systemdOct 29 22:31
MinceRbut note the past tense thereOct 29 22:31
oiaohmLot of ways I like openrc.Oct 29 22:32
oiaohmIt has the cgroup feature you need to for process tracking and a not insanely complex configuration system.Oct 29 22:32
MinceR 29 22:33
MinceRplus it can work without cgroupsOct 29 22:33
oiaohmWhen you are on a Linux kernel or hurd kernel(yes hurd has the same process tracking problem as the Linux kernel don't know why that was copied)  cgroups is something you need support for at times just for debugging sanity.   Openrc aiming at cross kernel cgroups being option is required.Oct 29 22:36
oiaohmYes being optional is useful for inside containers.Oct 29 22:37
oiaohmIts not like for a container that is already inside a cgroup that you need cgroups inside that container all that time.   You can still debug back to the problem is in that container than turn cgroups on inside that one to debug deeper.Oct 29 22:38
oiaohmThe optional cgroup feature of openrc I find great.Oct 29 22:39
MinceRi find it great that it's optionalOct 29 22:39
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oiaohmthe cgroup support is something I need to be able to turn on at least on Linux kernels.  If I used hurd I would need it over there as well.   That is why not having it is a deal breaker with sysvinit, runit without openrc and so on because you are missing what you need debug stuff when things go wrong simply.   .Oct 29 22:44
oiaohmOf course openbsd and freebsd have done posix process information right so they don't need this extra tracking stuff so you can debug them sanely.Oct 29 22:45
MinceR 29 22:47
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