Join us now at the IRC channel.
| scientes | "upheaval" | Sep 30 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| scientes | psydroid, but this is the multi-polar world that Lavrov is talking about | Sep 30 00:09 |
| scientes | and saying that it is inevitable | Sep 30 00:09 |
| MinceR | we'll have a unipolar world, and that pole will be the void | Sep 30 00:13 |
| scientes | well its kinda like the polar ice caps | Sep 30 00:14 |
| scientes | they are shrinking, so they are more like yamikas now | Sep 30 00:14 |
| <--DarwinElf (~darwin@fsf/member/darwin) has left #techrights ("Leaving") | Sep 30 00:14 | |
| psydroid | scientes, yes, "upheaval" for one country in particular that doesn't want to see the new reality. I have also said this for years, but Lavrov has probably articulated it much better without a doubt (I'll watch the video in the course of this week) | Sep 30 00:15 |
| scientes | that version is the live translation | Sep 30 00:15 |
| scientes | the us embassy has a better post-translation | Sep 30 00:15 |
| scientes | psydroid, for the leaders | Sep 30 00:16 |
| scientes | of that country | Sep 30 00:16 |
| scientes | they are doing their population an incredibly dis-service | Sep 30 00:17 |
| scientes | damn, i'm compiling like 5 compilers at the same time | Sep 30 00:17 |
| scientes | this is a weird script | Sep 30 00:17 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: First batch of new Linux phones starts shipping http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128666 [https://pleroma.site/objects/117f900a-26bd-4c61-a0a2-b36f6969357c] | Sep 30 00:32 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | "Last week, Google Chrome got the blame for an Apple file system bug that took out (apparently) hundreds of Macs in Hollywood and destroyed everything on the computer, because of course they did. It turned out that the bug in the file system was impossible to provoke anyway unless the user was a complete moron and turned off System Integrity Protection." | Sep 30 00:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I wrote that on Facebook. | Sep 30 00:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Anyway, I guess production system means "Apple beta tester" in the Mac world. | Sep 30 00:36 |
| psydroid | oh, they are doing things more like that other OS does | Sep 30 00:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I guess that with crApple's war on general purpose computers, it's surprising that you could even become an Administrator and screw around with the SIP setting these days. | Sep 30 00:40 |
| r_schestowitz | [21:38] <aindilis> r_schestowitz: do you use Emacs and or ERC? I think I asked you this before but I cannot find the answer in my logs. | Sep 30 00:43 |
| r_schestowitz | I have not used emacs since 2001 | Sep 30 00:43 |
| psydroid | I've explained this a few times to some people recently, but I think the era of truly general purpose computers is over. So if you want to run free operating systems, you should choose your hardware wisely. Because Microsoft, Apple and Google would rather not give you that choice. | Sep 30 00:44 |
| scientes | psydroid, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg | Sep 30 00:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-28c3: The coming war on general computation - YouTube | Sep 30 00:45 | |
| scientes | Cory Doctorow | Sep 30 00:45 |
| scientes | that's 7 years ago | Sep 30 00:45 |
| psydroid | scientes, I read the article by him that was linked in some channel recently, I didn't know there was also a video presentation. And I only really realised it was getting harder to install free operating systems on recent hardware until about 2 years ago. | Sep 30 00:49 |
| psydroid | I think you linked that in #talos-offtopic | Sep 30 00:50 |
| scientes | but GPL3 (if enforced) actually prevents that anti-social non-sense | Sep 30 00:55 |
| r_schestowitz | https://twitter.com/waynecolvin/status/1178445631687258113 | Sep 30 01:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@waynecolvin: @zedshaw I don't know if he is really homeless or not. https://t.co/oHpTYxtTew Best to trust the GNU mailing lists… https://t.co/cOHov55wpn | Sep 30 01:00 | |
| r_schestowitz | "I don't know if he is really homeless or not. http://techrights.org/2019/09/29/fsf-defaced-rms/… Best to trust the GNU mailing lists for now... Recent message https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2019-09/msg00008.html… [note: http://gnu.org keeps getting odd posts]" | Sep 30 01:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ http://techrights.org/2019/09/29/fsf-defaced-rms/… ) | Sep 30 01:00 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2019-09/msg00008.html… ) | Sep 30 01:00 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gnu.org | The GNU Operating System and the Free Software Movement | Sep 30 01:00 | |
| r_schestowitz | https://twitter.com/waynecolvin/status/1178402199195418625 | Sep 30 01:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@waynecolvin: Mention of John Gruber of Daring Fireball in relation to this keeps getting censored. :/ | Sep 30 01:01 | |
| r_schestowitz | https://twitter.com/waynecolvin/status/1178426448807264256 | Sep 30 01:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@waynecolvin: Many liars are polluting comment sections, as usual. | Sep 30 01:01 | |
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| oiaohm | psydroid: I remember the telstra first android phone in Australia. The operation system was installed on a rom. That right a sold silicon printed rom. So it got easy at one point and now starting to get hard again. | Sep 30 01:37 |
| scientes | android is so horrible these days | Sep 30 01:37 |
| scientes | you can't even use a damn sdcard | Sep 30 01:37 |
| scientes | like, UNIX could do that in the 80s............. | Sep 30 01:37 |
| oiaohm | History repeats. | Sep 30 01:37 |
| MinceR | there still are new android phones that can use sdcards | Sep 30 01:38 |
| MinceR | just not from google | Sep 30 01:38 |
| scientes | no, i'm saying if you have a sdcard | Sep 30 01:38 |
| scientes | android's support for them is shit | Sep 30 01:38 |
| MinceR | it is | Sep 30 01:38 |
| MinceR | last time i checked, device manufacturers had to hack it in | Sep 30 01:39 |
| scientes | and /sdcard is now mounted on the internal flash | Sep 30 01:39 |
| scientes | and the sdcard is under /external | Sep 30 01:39 |
| MinceR | i guess google has found some good reasons why we shouldn't trust an advertising company with our OS-es and browsers | Sep 30 01:39 |
| oiaohm | I am watching the pinephone and pinetime devices. I have been looking for a heath tracking watch for sometime that did not require me to use some random application with horrible upload to cloud and other things. | Sep 30 01:39 |
| scientes | oiaohm, just come to south america--you can check your weight on every corner for a small fee | Sep 30 01:40 |
| oiaohm | scientes: its more I need the heart rated and blood pressure tracking. | Sep 30 01:41 |
| scientes | that was a joke | Sep 30 01:41 |
| oiaohm | I wish it was just a want. | Sep 30 01:42 |
| scientes | my blood pressure is super low | Sep 30 01:42 |
| scientes | and so is my heart rate | Sep 30 01:42 |
| scientes | and i'm at 3700m right now | Sep 30 01:42 |
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| DarwinElf | of course, since 4chan is linked to Anonymous, lots of people are commenting on the RMS fiasco. Someone said that stallman.org also linked to a 'cancel stallman' post but then it was removed | Sep 30 02:43 |
| DarwinElf | i.e., same time it linked to the video of him making fun of him or whatever | Sep 30 02:43 |
| DarwinElf | maybe someone here already said, but Sarah Mei publicly demanded (on Twitter) the entire FSF board to resign and she works for SalesForce | Sep 30 02:45 |
| scientes | DarwinElf, that is interesting | Sep 30 02:45 |
| scientes | and kinda explains the whole fiasco | Sep 30 02:45 |
| scientes | basically, software has been just like health-care | Sep 30 02:46 |
| scientes | where the people that dominate and the nasty anti-social and greedy ones | Sep 30 02:46 |
| scientes | and so they have to get rid of RMS because he makes them look bad | Sep 30 02:46 |
| oiaohm | There is a legal side to this as well. Its not just about looking bad. We are seeing some of the fall out from the Harvey Weinstein mess. | Sep 30 02:52 |
| scientes | who gives a shit? | Sep 30 02:53 |
| scientes | that is irrelevent | Sep 30 02:53 |
| scientes | the point is just that these people are little (big) shits | Sep 30 02:53 |
| scientes | cause that is all the US is anymore | Sep 30 02:53 |
| oiaohm | scientes: There are attempts to prosecute people who covered up what Harvey Weinstein did in the USA. And those cases are working. So now those in management role are having their point of view judged. | Sep 30 02:53 |
| scientes | there is a little bit of a bubble at Google, but even that is a very differnt place from what it was in 2008, or 2013 when I was there | Sep 30 02:53 |
| scientes | Google now has poisonous sex wars | Sep 30 02:54 |
| scientes | and it also has to worship money because no-body knows what else to use to bring people together | Sep 30 02:54 |
| scientes | oiaohm, that stuff is just poisonous sex wars | Sep 30 02:55 |
| scientes | Google can't really get anything done anymore | Sep 30 02:55 |
| scientes | like the rest of the US | Sep 30 02:55 |
| scientes | it might have young geniouses | Sep 30 02:55 |
| oiaohm | Its normal human over reaction. | Sep 30 02:55 |
| scientes | but it is divided and doesn't know what to do | Sep 30 02:56 |
| oiaohm | For a few decades management has been doing things wrong. | Sep 30 02:56 |
| scientes | and that results in stupid ideas being repeated and ruining what was a exciting atmosphere 10 years ago | Sep 30 02:56 |
| scientes | which was about when it started falling apart, even if it was once better | Sep 30 02:56 |
| scientes | like "Oh, YouTube is written in Python" (like that is a bad thing) | Sep 30 02:56 |
| oiaohm | Its like Australia with the Catholic church. Find out covering up crimes was not in fact legal in the really old englishs law. | Sep 30 02:57 |
| scientes | even a talk about this problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1jWe5rOu3g | Sep 30 02:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GTAC 2011: Opening Keynote Address - Test is Dead - YouTube | Sep 30 02:57 | |
| scientes | oiaohm, again, I don't really give a shit | Sep 30 02:57 |
| oiaohm | We have had major illegal company management around a lot of things allowing Harvey Weinsteins. Catholic Church sex issues..... Now we have over reaction. | Sep 30 02:58 |
| scientes | we don't have a overreaction | Sep 30 02:58 |
| scientes | what we have are fools | Sep 30 02:58 |
| oiaohm | No real difference fools cause the over reaction by not really thinking what the correct responses are. | Sep 30 02:59 |
| scientes | and the publishers are promoting this non-sense | Sep 30 02:59 |
| scientes | oiaohm, "the only winning move is to not play" | Sep 30 02:59 |
| scientes | -War Games | Sep 30 02:59 |
| oiaohm | Really I would love publishers over this mess done for inflaming discrimination. Yes the overreactions themselves are illegal. | Sep 30 03:00 |
| oiaohm | In most cases. | Sep 30 03:00 |
| scientes | scratching my balls is illegal | Sep 30 03:01 |
| scientes | even in the privacy of my own dwelling | Sep 30 03:01 |
| oiaohm | I really do say let the law play it way out. | Sep 30 03:01 |
| scientes | .............. | Sep 30 03:01 |
| oiaohm | Then we can start having debate about sense. | Sep 30 03:01 |
| scientes | Proverbs 26:5 | Sep 30 03:02 |
| scientes | you think you much | Sep 30 03:02 |
| oiaohm | scientes: https://biblehub.com/proverbs/26-5.htm I do like how many different ways people have found to write that one. | Sep 30 03:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-biblehub.com | Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he become wise in his own eyes. | Sep 30 03:04 | |
| scientes | or the Russian proverb | Sep 30 03:04 |
| scientes | Enraged people get to pull the water wagon. | Sep 30 03:05 |
| oiaohm | The russian one is better. | Sep 30 03:05 |
| scientes | because it includes punishment | Sep 30 03:05 |
| oiaohm | Being enraged normally helps nothing. | Sep 30 03:05 |
| scientes | its such a funny proverb too | Sep 30 03:06 |
| oiaohm | Laws in most countries forbid stacks of bad behaviours. For a long time on the internet we attempted to believe those laws don't apply on internet | Sep 30 03:06 |
| scientes | oiaohm, you are missing that they are being called enraged, it isn't necessarily true | Sep 30 03:06 |
| scientes | but rather that they should be | Sep 30 03:06 |
| scientes | because them did it to themselves | Sep 30 03:07 |
| scientes | its like asking someone "why do you have to be a victim?" | Sep 30 03:07 |
| oiaohm | Or just because a person was important those laws could be ignored. | Sep 30 03:07 |
| scientes | oiaohm, and the Russian proverb is also breaking the law | Sep 30 03:07 |
| scientes | they were paid for a job, and they tried to get paid twice | Sep 30 03:07 |
| scientes | so they get to pull the water wagon | Sep 30 03:07 |
| scientes | instead of being able to use a horse | Sep 30 03:08 |
| oiaohm | I guess we will have about another 15 years of hell. | Sep 30 03:08 |
| scientes | probably far less | Sep 30 03:08 |
| oiaohm | If historic examples of these issues are to go by. | Sep 30 03:08 |
| scientes | but seriously, anti-social stuff isn't best handled by law | Sep 30 03:08 |
| scientes | its handled by re-socialization therapy | Sep 30 03:08 |
| scientes | better called stubbornness | Sep 30 03:09 |
| oiaohm | anti-social stuff has always been handled by law then treatment. | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | only those that continue to not listen---those that are enraged | Sep 30 03:09 |
| oiaohm | Mine you todays laws are nicer than the first ones. | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | and again, in that proverb | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | its not the law | Sep 30 03:09 |
| oiaohm | Ie you are doing something the chief does not agree with law where that was death. | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | its that we laugh at them for what they tried to do | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | and its being laughed at that is the best socialization tool | Sep 30 03:09 |
| oiaohm | The law started as basically anti-social. | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | law doesn't really work | Sep 30 03:09 |
| scientes | you just end up with tons of people in prison | Sep 30 03:10 |
| oiaohm | To stop anti-social by brute force. | Sep 30 03:10 |
| scientes | the GULAGs managed to be profitable | Sep 30 03:10 |
| scientes | but that is the exception, not the rule | Sep 30 03:10 |
| scientes | <oiaohm> To stop anti-social by brute force. | Sep 30 03:10 |
| scientes | oiaohm, I don't think you understand the slightest thing about violence | Sep 30 03:10 |
| scientes | violence in and of itsself is VERY anti-social | Sep 30 03:10 |
| oiaohm | I know | Sep 30 03:10 |
| oiaohm | Law is itself is very contradiction. | Sep 30 03:11 |
| scientes | if the violent person is more of a fool that the one being punished it will never work | Sep 30 03:11 |
| oiaohm | Its there to stop anti-social by being anti-social itself. | Sep 30 03:11 |
| scientes | which is why violence should only be used on a person that isn't managing to integrate into society | Sep 30 03:11 |
| DarwinElf | it's only a matter of time until Google deletes Maps, GMail, and Search because the younger/Millennial/Zoomer programmer teams don't like the older programmers' code and Google's culture is to delete and occasionally recreate projects | Sep 30 03:33 |
| DarwinElf | they've been closing everything and all their services went down in quality... just replying to scientes & etc.'s comments on them earlier | Sep 30 03:34 |
| scientes | meh, they aren't that crazy | Sep 30 03:35 |
| scientes | but I see what you are saying | Sep 30 03:35 |
| scientes | as long as there are clear orders from the top, these people aren't completely incompetent | Sep 30 03:35 |
| scientes | but the dicipline of being publically traded means they can't do anything useful | Sep 30 03:35 |
| scientes | and it has an incredible demoralizing effect on the whole company | Sep 30 03:35 |
| scientes | which was already present when I was there in 2013 | Sep 30 03:36 |
| scientes | https://www.resilience.org/stories/2006-12-04/closing-collapse-gap-ussr-was-better-prepared-collapse-us/ | Sep 30 03:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.resilience.org | Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US - Resilience | Sep 30 03:37 | |
| DarwinElf | yeah it's more that I was joking | Sep 30 03:38 |
| DarwinElf | but they've already made all those services worse | Sep 30 03:38 |
| scientes | but who cares? | Sep 30 03:39 |
| scientes | as RMS says, the better a propritary service is, the more damage it does | Sep 30 03:39 |
| DarwinElf | i do because they're still the best-designed search engine... just not as good as they used to be. No other search engine is anything near as good, since most the rest fail at simple search logic and don't have as many results | Sep 30 03:39 |
| scientes | well search must be done that way | Sep 30 03:40 |
| scientes | centrally that is | Sep 30 03:40 |
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| scientes | Oh woah, you guys see that GMail now has a "confidential mode" | Sep 30 04:11 |
| scientes | fucking fools | Sep 30 04:11 |
| scientes | you know how you implement that? | Sep 30 04:12 |
| scientes | You go down the hallway, and talk in person | Sep 30 04:12 |
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| scientes | You see, at Google 10 years ago there was the sensibility of generating boondoggles, like Google Play Store | Sep 30 04:44 |
| scientes | but they couldn't get to the next step, because of the decipline of being a publically traded company | Sep 30 04:44 |
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| r_schestowitz | > Even (or especially) those tools that smugly applaud the removal of RMS | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > based on behavior should especially object to the means by which he has | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > been removed. Ends never justify the means. When it comes down to it | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > they are supporting online lynching. | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > A few within the BSD crowd seem so gleeful about taking RMS down, and | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > finding creative ways to rationalize it, because then their hero Bill | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > Gates stays out of the public eye despite his actual association with | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > Epstein. It is rather disgusting that they spend so much effort | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > attacking RMS to cover for Bill. Again, when it comes down to it, they | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | > are supporting online lynching and trying to legitimize it. | Sep 30 08:05 |
| r_schestowitz | Hope you don't mind me quoting it. I think it merits an audience as it can make some people reassess their tasteless actions. | Sep 30 08:05 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128691 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1e4e0332-230f-4e53-9d3e-c39705ede1bf] | Sep 30 08:24 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How I ditched my old OS and jumped into Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128690 [https://pleroma.site/objects/689dc815-7066-455b-8b76-19839417a190] | Sep 30 08:25 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128692 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9627dc79-706d-4840-a774-e9cacbacf9d8] | Sep 30 08:32 | |
| XRevan86 | RMS replied: "Thanks for informing me.", very spartan. No GPG. | Sep 30 09:00 |
| r_schestowitz | context? | Sep 30 09:00 |
| r_schestowitz | What was the question? | Sep 30 09:00 |
| XRevan86 | fencepost.gnu.org (Exim 4.82) → eggs.gnu.org (Exim 4.71) → my server | Sep 30 09:00 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: The blogpost about stepping down. It's gone again. | Sep 30 09:00 |
| r_schestowitz | yes, I noticed | Sep 30 09:01 |
| XRevan86 | Also no NSA preambula. But that's probably because there's no corporate server in the chain with me. | Sep 30 09:04 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat is Not the Company You Once Knew http://techrights.org/2019/09/30/red-hat-under-ibm/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/dab26fb1-4672-4cd9-a13b-f98c0175cddb] | Sep 30 10:16 | |
| zoobab | @r_schestowitz Schaerbeek is where I live :-) | Sep 30 10:24 |
| r_schestowitz | go do a protest | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | distribute flyers | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | it should be fun | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | Marcia did that to LF last month | Sep 30 10:25 |
| zoobab | I have better | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | good | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | take photos too | Sep 30 10:25 |
| r_schestowitz | maybe next time they'll turn down MSFT BE money | Sep 30 10:25 |
| zoobab | We gonna ask RH to make a substancial donation against swpats, as we urgently need some to kick the UPC out, and kick the STRONGER patent bill in the US | Sep 30 10:26 |
| zoobab | which IBM is lobbying for | Sep 30 10:26 |
| r_schestowitz | ah | Sep 30 10:26 |
| r_schestowitz | put that on camera | Sep 30 10:26 |
| zoobab | Red Hat’s IP [sic] head reveals that in the run-up to its acquisition by IBM the company went shopping for patents at a range of sellers including AT&T, Huawei and Panasonic | Sep 30 10:26 |
| r_schestowitz | to see the reacton | Sep 30 10:27 |
| r_schestowitz | then we can rub it in Jan's face | Sep 30 10:27 |
| zoobab | do you have access to IAM? | Sep 30 10:29 |
| r_schestowitz | No | Sep 30 10:30 |
| r_schestowitz | I don't know tricks either | Sep 30 10:30 |
| zoobab | https://twitter.com/IAM_magazine/status/1177639934167007234 | Sep 30 10:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@IAM_magazine: In the years leading up to its takeover by IBM, Red Hat did a string of deals in the secondary market… https://t.co/6wu0WPEKeh | Sep 30 10:30 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@IAM_magazine: In the years leading up to its takeover by IBM, Red Hat did a string of deals in the secondary market… https://t.co/6wu0WPEKeh | Sep 30 10:30 | |
| r_schestowitz | these MFers own a site called opensource.com | Sep 30 10:33 |
| r_schestowitz | this isn't leading by example | Sep 30 10:33 |
| r_schestowitz | no transparency | Sep 30 10:33 |
| r_schestowitz | lots of patents | Sep 30 10:33 |
| r_schestowitz | zoobab: The USPTO has extended the dates for receiving public comments on “Artificial Intelligence (AI) Patents” to November 8, 2019. The USPTO in August had sought public comments on the patenting of inventions developed by AI (wholly or partially) and inventions of AI. The USPTO had sought information and comments on 12 very interesting questions including – What are elements of an AI invention? If a person instructs an AI to solve | Sep 30 10:37 |
| r_schestowitz | a particular problem; has that person invented the solution (once it is solved by the AI)? Should an entity or entities other than a natural person, or company to which a natural person assigns an invention, be able to own a patent on the AI invention? Do current patent laws and regulations regarding inventorship need to be revised to take into account inventions where an entity or entities other than a natural person contributed to the | Sep 30 10:37 |
| r_schestowitz | conception of an invention? | Sep 30 10:37 |
| r_schestowitz | source: https://www.bananaip.com/ip-news-center/aicte-and-cipam-spar-over-invention-guidelines-uspto-invites-comments-on-patenting-inventions-developed-by-ai-and-more/ | Sep 30 10:38 |
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| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-AICTE and CIPAM spar over invention guidelines, USPTO invites comments on patenting inventions developed by AI and more | BananaIP Counsels | Sep 30 10:38 | |
| r_schestowitz | hey hi (ai) | Sep 30 10:38 |
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| zoobab | I saw | Sep 30 10:46 |
| zoobab | The only thing to do is to send them a promise you gonna test their new examination guidelines in Court | Sep 30 10:47 |
| zoobab | as they did to restore the swpat floodgates | Sep 30 10:47 |
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| oiaohm | r_schestowitz: How long until we have AI writing patent applications in so much volume that no patent office can keep up. | Sep 30 11:05 |
| oiaohm | and someone patent that. | Sep 30 11:06 |
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| mercury^ | Hi. | Sep 30 12:15 |
| mercury^ | I have come across the practice of some distributions (in a very general sense), that claim to distribute free software, knowingly making use of limited patent licenses to distribute de- and encoders for H.264. | Sep 30 12:18 |
| mercury^ | Examples include Fedora, Mozilla and recently the "freedesktop platform" for flatpak. | Sep 30 12:19 |
| mercury^ | Were you aware of this? (And do you agree that it is problematic behaviour by those distributions?) | Sep 30 12:21 |
| zoobab | exFAT in Linux 5.4, despite the patent licensing restrictions | Sep 30 12:24 |
| zoobab | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.3-Staging-Changes | Sep 30 12:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft exFAT File-System Mailed In For Linux 5.4 Along With Promoted EROFS & Greybus - Phoronix | Sep 30 12:24 | |
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| mercury^ | In the cases I mentioned, the distributions go out of their way to download a binary from Cisco, so that they are covered by this license: https://www.openh264.org/BINARY_LICENSE.txt | Sep 30 12:33 |
| mercury^ | zoobab: thanks, I was not really aware of that. It seems that this whole Open Innovation Network through which Linux will receive protection is discriminatory. | Sep 30 12:40 |
| zoobab | it is | Sep 30 12:55 |
| ---MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Sep 30 12:59 | |
| zoobab | my colleagues is from CZ | Sep 30 13:17 |
| zoobab | http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2019/09/PWC_dopadov%C3%A1-studie-EPJU.pdf | Sep 30 13:17 |
| zoobab | reading this atm | Sep 30 13:17 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: you have to consider that Cisco did provide the source to that binary. And it was the best that could be done with the patents at the time. | Sep 30 13:23 |
| oiaohm | zoobab: exfat was delayed on merge into 5.4 until Microsoft legal did sign off on the patent location. | Sep 30 13:25 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I think it is disingenuous on part of those distributions to a) respect the patents and treat the software as if it were not free themselves b) then claim that they distribute free software only. | Sep 30 13:26 |
| mercury^ | Fedora also made monetary contributions to the development of openh264; conceivably some of those were used to pay off MPEG LA. | Sep 30 13:28 |
| oiaohm | zoobab: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-readies-exfat-patents-for-linux-and-open-source/ basically exfat patents have been added to the OIN patent pool. So that not a usage restriction. Microsoft was only really willing due to sansung and other that make flash media blocking exfat on future formats due to license costs. | Sep 30 13:28 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft readies exFAT patents for Linux and open source | ZDNet | Sep 30 13:28 | |
| oiaohm | mercury^: openh264 is in fact using cisco broad payment to MPEG LA to get license. As far as I know fedora/redhat did not pay anything for openh264. | Sep 30 13:29 |
| oiaohm | cisco need to buy the patent to be able to ship their devices to customers. | Sep 30 13:30 |
| oiaohm | MPEG LA is is really stubborn patent group. Reason for webm other formats being pushed. | Sep 30 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Worse is MPEG LA appears to be ever greening as well their patent pool. Like they first said the 264 patent pool ended 2027 now they say 2030 with that being able to move into the future. | Sep 30 13:31 |
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| oiaohm | mercury^: really I cannot give a good answer how to deal with parties like MPEG LA. | Sep 30 13:32 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: well, one could choose just not to support h264. Or be honest about openh264 being non-free. | Sep 30 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Its not really a simple option not to support h264 thinking how much only comes in that format. | Sep 30 13:33 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I am no expert of the history of openh264; as far as I understood it was first published after negotiations between Cisco and Mozilla. But Fedora and Endless recently paid for its further development. | Sep 30 13:34 |
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| oiaohm | mercury^: all the development I have seen on h264 has been Cisco. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| oiaohm | I have not seen Fedora/redhat or endless really put any development into it. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Other than use what Cisco provided. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Please note h265 has not really taken off. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Cisco did H264 as a stop gap. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: if the distributions feel that they need to ship support for H.264 -- fair enough. But they should be honest about shipping proprietary software in that case. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Its in that grey area. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Because the source code to cisco binary is provided with the information required to reproductable build the cisco binary. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| oiaohm | So its something that is not fully proprietary or fully open source. | Sep 30 13:37 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I could actually not find information on reproducible builds. There is a github issue with last activity in 2015, and nothing seems to have come off it. | Sep 30 13:37 |
| oiaohm | that the thing the binary has not been updated either. | Sep 30 13:38 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: not true, the last release was in June 17 this year. | Sep 30 13:38 |
| mercury^ | https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2019/09/23/fedora-workstation-31-whats-new/ | Sep 30 13:39 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blogs.gnome.org | Fedora Workstation 31 – Whats new — Christian F.K. Schaller | Sep 30 13:39 | |
| mercury^ | See "OpenH264 Greatly Improved" | Sep 30 13:39 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: I mean in a lot of distributions. | Sep 30 13:39 |
| mercury^ | As a reference of Fedora paying for the development of openh264. | Sep 30 13:40 |
| oiaohm | So some distributions have been updating openh264 to current other have been just keeping old version with enough compadiblity. | Sep 30 13:40 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: well, the point was that the binary is not reproducible. But that is a security issue, not an ethical one anyway. | Sep 30 13:41 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: as for grey area: I agree that the it is more free than software for which the source is not even published. But the distributions act as if modifying or sharing is not allowed. So if they treat it as non-free, their words should match their actions. | Sep 30 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Do remember patent licenses don't apply in all countries. | Sep 30 13:45 |
| oiaohm | So its is grey mess. | Sep 30 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Patents are not a forever thing either they have 20 year expire from issue. | Sep 30 13:46 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: and when the patents have expired, openh264 will be free. | Sep 30 13:47 |
| mercury^ | https://github.com/cisco/openh264/issues/893 | Sep 30 13:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Verifying binary releases · Issue #893 · cisco/openh264 · GitHub | Sep 30 13:50 | |
| mercury^ | For reference regarding reproducible builds. | Sep 30 13:50 |
| oiaohm | I would say getting the reproducible build state is more important that the patents in the short term. | Sep 30 13:51 |
| oiaohm | there is only so much you can do with a stubborn patent holder who managed to get camera makers and other parties on line. | Sep 30 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Do remember to send stuff over the internet we are using lossy codecs that mean every time you encode you lose more data. | Sep 30 13:53 |
| oiaohm | h264 is a serous rock and hard place. Like if you said we only accepts webm and recoded everything the result would be lots of visual quality loss. | Sep 30 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Its very important to avoid update of h265 and attempt to time h264 out. | Sep 30 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Kind of the mp3 plan. | Sep 30 13:54 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I agree. | Sep 30 13:55 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: still I think the distributions are immoral in not labelling openh264 for what it is. | Sep 30 13:56 |
| oiaohm | I am happy that cisco decide to use their patent grant to cover end users. Please note patent grant of cisco does not cover you as a commerical making new media in h264. | Sep 30 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Part of that we don't have a proper tittle for it. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| oiaohm | that people know. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| oiaohm | calling openh264 patent restricted would be right with work around by cisco license. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| oiaohm | remember in you are in country where patents don't apply you can legally take openh264 build it from source and use it. | Sep 30 13:58 |
| oiaohm | also cicso the upstream is being very willing to take patches and changes by other parties and release the binaries. | Sep 30 13:59 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: Yes, my issue is mainly with labelling things correctly. | Sep 30 14:00 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: also remember if you had your own h264 license from mpeg LA you can also build from source. | Sep 30 14:00 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: but that is not software freedom. | Sep 30 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Redhat and other using cisco binary is avoiding paying mpeg LA any more money than they have to. | Sep 30 14:01 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I had opened this issue with appstream to add better labelling for the "freedesktop sdk", and so that clients who wish to can filter openh264 out, but I seem to have been shot down: | Sep 30 14:02 |
| MinceR | >And it was the best that could be done with the patents at the time. | Sep 30 14:02 |
| mercury^ | https://github.com/ximion/appstream/issues/254 | Sep 30 14:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Add fields for patent encumbrance and patent license · Issue #254 · ximion/appstream · GitHub | Sep 30 14:02 | |
| MinceR | it would be better to not use H.264 | Sep 30 14:02 |
| MinceR | or any other patent traps from the MPEG LA | Sep 30 14:02 |
| MinceR | 30 143214 < oiaohm> mercury^: really I cannot give a good answer how to deal with parties like MPEG LA. | Sep 30 14:03 |
| MinceR | revolution, execution | Sep 30 14:03 |
| MinceR | these people are parasites | Sep 30 14:03 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: there is another problem. It called "treble damages" that is part of US patent laws. Where if you know something is patented covered and you use it wrong you are legally up for triple the costs. | Sep 30 14:05 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: this is why I said we have a problem having the right words for this. Patent system is a asshole. | Sep 30 14:05 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I have addressed that concern on the issue page. I think it would mostly be of interest to the distributor, in any case. If they are already going out of their way to be covered by a license, they may as well admit that the software is covered by patents. | Sep 30 14:06 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: end users can use it wrong as well. | Sep 30 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Like you encode a video and sell it under current vague person could argue that were not aware of the patent restrictions and mpeg la would most likely lose in court. Now if it was known person who did that would instant lose. | Sep 30 14:08 |
| oiaohm | The treble damages sections of the USA patent law is a ass. | Sep 30 14:08 |
| MinceR | the patent system, like the state, must be abolished | Sep 30 14:08 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: in practical terms I do not think that MPEG LA will sue individuals. If you have a large commercial operation that does H.264 encoding you are a) not covered by the limited license anyway b) probably expected to know about patenting restrictions. | Sep 30 14:09 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: its been awhile since MPEG LA has bothered individuals they stopped when they got anti-trust investgation in 2011. But we cannot be sure they will stay not doing that. | Sep 30 14:10 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: all the more reason not to pretend openh264 is something that it is not; imo. | Sep 30 14:11 |
| oiaohm | Its also why you have to be careful labeling it. | Sep 30 14:12 |
| oiaohm | So that the label does not have clear legal meaning. | Sep 30 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Like calling openh264 "restricted supply software" does not say that there is patents there. Its the reality we are lacking a common term like this. | Sep 30 14:13 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: then maybe we should introduce one. | Sep 30 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Its got to be grey enough that is not usable in patent courts yet clear enough that people are aware there is a possible problem. | Sep 30 14:14 |
| mercury^ | It should signal to users that something is wrong and allow them to find out what, without informing them that they are violating patents specifically. | Sep 30 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Remember with the tripple damages bit you don't want to find out. | Sep 30 14:15 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: if one has to do a separate search for the meaning of the term, then one could later deny having done it. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| oiaohm | also having the term be generic enough to cover other non patent things. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Like redhat enterprise distribution provided binarys could be restricted supply software as the only way you can use that is get that from redhat own protected mirrors. | Sep 30 14:17 |
| oiaohm | To have access to those redhat binarys you are paying a redhat License right. | Sep 30 14:18 |
| mercury^ | "restricted supply" does not sound problematic enough to me. | Sep 30 14:18 |
| oiaohm | That is also my problem but its about the best I have been able to thing up that fits inside the current framework. | Sep 30 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Remember the marker cannot say this 100 percent has a patent problem. | Sep 30 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Or that is tripple damaged. | Sep 30 14:19 |
| mercury^ | "limited use" ? | Sep 30 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Limited use in court could be bent to say you should have inverstaged and found the patent restrictions. | Sep 30 14:20 |
| oiaohm | so you knew so tripple damages. | Sep 30 14:20 |
| oiaohm | As I said ass. | Sep 30 14:20 |
| oiaohm | mercury^: there was a reason why I used supply instead of use. | Sep 30 14:23 |
| oiaohm | limited supply might be option. | Sep 30 14:23 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: but that almost makes it sound desirable. :D | Sep 30 14:24 |
| oiaohm | That been my problem. | Sep 30 14:25 |
| oiaohm | trying to come up with a term that does not sound very desirable and at the same time that does not drop you in it for knowning about the patent restriction is not easy. | Sep 30 14:25 |
| oiaohm | It also has to be polite as well. So we cannot call it assware. | Sep 30 14:26 |
| MinceR | you could call it a patent trap | Sep 30 14:31 |
| mercury^ | oiaohm: I think "limited use" could be construed as "limited usefulness", so that users can claim not having felt a need to investigate further. | Sep 30 14:33 |
| mercury^ | But it is also clearly undesirably, and most people will probably find out what exactly is wrong. | Sep 30 14:34 |
| mercury^ | Especially those that would care. | Sep 30 14:35 |
| mercury^ | Well, even going with "limited usefulness" directly might work. | Sep 30 14:35 |
| mercury^ | But I like "limited use" more; it is fairly accurate, but maybe vague enough? | Sep 30 14:36 |
| oiaohm | limited use matches a contract term. | Sep 30 14:45 |
| oiaohm | the word use has a lot of legal meaning. | Sep 30 14:46 |
| mercury^ | OK. | Sep 30 14:46 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: problem is saying patent trap is admitting the patents are there. | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | I really hate these legal system created messes at times. | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | It would be so many times simpler if software patents were just vaporised. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| oiaohm | but I don't see that happening any time soon. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| mercury^ | What about "troublesome"? | Sep 30 14:57 |
| mercury^ | It may be mistaken as a statement about the technical quality, but perhaps it is enough to get people to investigate. | Sep 30 14:58 |
| mercury^ | "burdensome", also | Sep 30 14:59 |
| zoobab | https://www.wipo.int/webcasting/en/assemblies/2019/ | Sep 30 15:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.wipo.int | Assemblies Webcasting | Sep 30 15:11 | |
| zoobab | AI patents at WIPO | Sep 30 15:11 |
| oiaohm | https://www.tomshardware.com/news/bitlocker-encrypts-self-encrypting-ssds,40504.html << Maybe people will wake up on this one more. | Sep 30 15:15 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tomshardware.com | Microsoft Stops Trusting SSD Makers | Sep 30 15:15 | |
| oiaohm | Really self encrypting harddrives are just really good way to either lose data or find out stuff was not encrypted when it should have been. | Sep 30 15:15 |
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| tyil | it seem techrights.org does not have working https right now | Sep 30 15:21 |
| tyil | is this a known issue to the people maintaining it? | Sep 30 15:21 |
| XRevan86 | tyil: It is a known issue. | Sep 30 15:25 |
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| mercury^ | oiaohm: what is your opinion on "burdensome"? | Sep 30 15:52 |
| mercury^ | Also, when such labels should be applied to meta-data, would it be enough for the presentation to use the ambiguous term, or should the meta-data itself already use it? | Sep 30 15:57 |
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| oiaohm | mercury^: really burdensome I don't think that would get the required reaction but I don't see why legally it could not be used. | Sep 30 16:53 |
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| mercury^ | I would really like it if we came up with a good term and then got distributions to use it, and to warn before installing such software. For now I have to go, though. Thanks for the conversation, everyone. | Sep 30 16:59 |
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| r_schestowitz | [11:05] <oiaohm> r_schestowitz: How long until we have AI writing patent applications in so much volume that no patent office can keep up. | Sep 30 17:43 |
| r_schestowitz | I said just that months ago in an article :-) | Sep 30 17:43 |
| r_schestowitz | [15:15] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- www.tomshardware.com | Microsoft Stops Trusting SSD Makers | Sep 30 17:45 |
| r_schestowitz | BitLocker has NSA back doors, it's useless anyway | Sep 30 17:45 |
| r_schestowitz | might protect your data from your mom and your mate with physical access | Sep 30 17:45 |
| r_schestowitz | [15:21] <tyil> is this a known issue to the people maintaining it? | Sep 30 17:45 |
| r_schestowitz | This will be amended with the next upgrade, it has been tricky for several reasons, myself and even others had a go at it years ago and this year again | Sep 30 17:46 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Zombie Soup, UnderMine, Atari VCS, Songs of Syx, Minecraft, Graveyard Keeper, D9VK, TO4: Tactical Operations and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128693 [https://pleroma.site/objects/acc6501e-b23f-4aa5-96c4-70d4c46cfa30] | Sep 30 17:55 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128694 [https://pleroma.site/objects/df9f7e2a-fdca-47f8-b9d9-6869f1b85775] | Sep 30 18:16 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Writing Less Simple, Yet Stupid Filesystem Using FUSE in C http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128695 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7b5cdc56-0329-4254-9a37-1c8aaf0373ba] | Sep 30 18:30 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 4MLinux 31.0 BETA released. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128698 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f7323e0e-9da7-42c2-bcc3-af0df366e828] | Sep 30 18:51 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Good List of 5 Open Source Log Management Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128696 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e3175d72-f82a-43ad-bebc-71cd5acd77f7] | Sep 30 18:54 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: HAT-compatible SBC runs Linux on i.MX6 ULL http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128697 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9b0c55e9-0d05-486a-8bf3-352acb119670] | Sep 30 18:55 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Candy: ponysay – cowsay reimplemention for ponies http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128701 [https://pleroma.site/objects/81459e97-712d-4a15-ab9f-6a598f16b412] | Sep 30 19:01 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microsoft Loves Linux Needs More Work Argues Open Source Leader http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128702 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3271de5a-6c14-4251-96ee-452a801a9763] | Sep 30 19:08 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Updates http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128704 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b7a564a3-4d5f-4723-b88d-3f6d54ca8373] | Sep 30 19:10 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Exaile Music Player Got Its First Release in 4 Years, And I Didn’t Even Notice! http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128703 [https://pleroma.site/objects/460da002-8821-4335-9e51-dc8840fc19bd] | Sep 30 19:12 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: AMD Navi 12 Gets 256-bit memory bus according to Linux drivers, Radeon RX 5600 128-bit http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128700 [https://pleroma.site/objects/502ba994-fc69-4111-ae56-bc7862c3dde6] | Sep 30 19:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LFS Stable Version 9.0 Release http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128699 [https://pleroma.site/objects/836683ca-e6ff-4231-90b6-8246dbeeb259] | Sep 30 19:17 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security in Linux 5.4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128705 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2fc3863d-7c54-40c1-976f-5e92f7d64ac6] | Sep 30 19:30 | |
| MinceR | lol, i never trusted "self-encrypting" SSD-s | Sep 30 19:42 |
| MinceR | but i never trusted bitlocker or microsoft either | Sep 30 19:42 |
| psydroid | several years agoI had a work laptop with some abomination running on it and I had installed a Linux distribution on it to use when I was at home, since I was living abroad and it was my only computer | Sep 30 20:10 |
| psydroid | one day while at work they installed something called McAfee Endpoint Ecryption on it in the background, so the next time I couldn't boot into Linux anymore | Sep 30 20:12 |
| psydroid | I reinstalled the Linux distribution and the abomination stopped working, so my manager wasn't happy when I told him what had happened the next day | Sep 30 20:13 |
| psydroid | some time after that I bought an external hard drive and installed everything I needed on it, so I could boot from that drive | Sep 30 20:15 |
| psydroid | so yes, I didn't trust any of that encryption stuff either | Sep 30 20:16 |
| scientes | people in control universally think that control solves all problems | Sep 30 20:17 |
| MinceR | https://twitter.com/OFalafel/status/1178565906454192129 | Sep 30 20:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@OFalafel: This might be why my cat’s annoyed with me https://t.co/NBzIxGNoYE | Sep 30 20:29 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@OFalafel: Man and beast in perfect harmony https://t.co/NBzIxGNoYE | Sep 30 20:29 | |
| psydroid | I was the only one who had it installed, there was some guy who didn't like me | Sep 30 20:33 |
| scientes | 8) | Sep 30 20:34 |
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| scientes | I am so tired on the web using so much god damn memory | Sep 30 21:18 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Welcome to the future! | Sep 30 21:18 |
| XRevan86 | The future when bells and whistles are bigger than structures they're attached to by a power of 10. | Sep 30 21:19 |
| scientes | heh | Sep 30 21:19 |
| psydroid | dystopian future? | Sep 30 21:19 |
| scientes | i think we already exceeded 100x | Sep 30 21:19 |
| scientes | except for video | Sep 30 21:19 |
| XRevan86 | I am a conservative guy when it comes to estimates. | Sep 30 21:19 |
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| scientes | I use to open 100s of tabs on only 8GB or memory | Sep 30 22:11 |
| scientes | and never had a problem | Sep 30 22:12 |
| scientes | its all these shitty web apps | Sep 30 22:12 |
| psydroid | I am caring less and less and maybe that's what they want | Sep 30 22:14 |
| psydroid | I am definitely not going to buy more powerful hardware for running web apps | Sep 30 22:14 |
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| XRevan86 | https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/ so that's how OpenBSD organises its projects… | Sep 30 22:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cvsweb.openbsd.org | src/ | Sep 30 22:36 | |
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| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/sv4ZMgW.jpg | Sep 30 23:00 |
| MinceR | (audio or subtitles important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vKCLJZbytU | Sep 30 23:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Octopus Dreaming - YouTube | Sep 30 23:08 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is there better evidence for that it's really dreaming? | Sep 30 23:10 |
| XRevan86 | it could just be a test run of skin colour changing whilst sleeping | Sep 30 23:11 |
| XRevan86 | maybe a pattern to colour changes that's hard to explain away | Sep 30 23:13 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 30 23:14 |
| MinceR | http://explosm.net/comics/5328/ | Sep 30 23:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cyanide & Happiness (Explosm.net) | Sep 30 23:26 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Way too obvious, ergo not funny. | Sep 30 23:27 |
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| scientes | why does scaleway not allow you to get 32-bit arm anymore? | Sep 30 23:59 |
| scientes | their 64-bit arms don't run 32-bit code | Sep 30 23:59 |
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