Join us now at the IRC channel.
techrights[sec]_ | As for how the FSF could focus its efforts, by hiring lobbyists, the | May 22 00:57 |
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techrights[sec]_ | "public money, public code" could be made into law if it isn't alread. | May 22 00:57 |
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #tuxmachines | May 22 00:59 | |
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #tuxmachines | May 22 01:00 | |
schestowitz-pi2 | good point, yes, that was a good campaign idea | May 22 01:48 |
schestowitz-pi2 | btw, i was just thinking, it doesn't matter the salary, any job would take | May 22 01:48 |
schestowitz-pi2 | away time from site activities, so i will do TR 100% for years to come | May 22 01:48 |
schestowitz-pi2 | catching up with missed links, will think of ways to automate what | May 22 01:48 |
schestowitz-pi2 | can emulate what's done manually atm | May 22 01:48 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i am going through about 4000 lines of links, i'm sure I can filter some more | May 22 01:48 |
*mib_lnfom7 (~c62c8096@q8ban9vyag5t6.irc) has joined #tuxmachines | May 22 02:11 | |
mib_lnfom7 | Why is the website no longer optimized for mobile? I like browsing on my phone while on smoke break and sending interesting links to my PC. | May 22 02:12 |
schestowitz | hi | May 22 02:12 |
schestowitz | what changes to make? | May 22 02:12 |
schestowitz | we can make changes | May 22 02:12 |
mib_lnfom7 | The website was mobile friendly recently, but then suddenly it no longer was | May 22 02:12 |
schestowitz | when did that change? | May 22 02:13 |
schestowitz | we changed cms in august last year | May 22 02:13 |
mib_lnfom7 | I don't remember exactly, maybe in the last few weeks | May 22 02:13 |
schestowitz | news.tuxmachines.org? | May 22 02:13 |
mib_lnfom7 | Yes | May 22 02:14 |
schestowitz | can you send a screenshot? | May 22 02:14 |
schestowitz | we made no changes to our CMS | May 22 02:14 |
schestowitz | http://www.tuxmachines.org/index/mobile/ | May 22 02:14 |
mib_lnfom7 | I'm referring to article pages. I subscribe to the RSS feed in Inoreader and click links from there | May 22 02:16 |
schestowitz | i see | May 22 02:16 |
schestowitz | let me try a narrow screen on a pagge | May 22 02:16 |
schestowitz | can you send us a screenshot of what you get? | May 22 02:17 |
schestowitz | the CMS is hand-crafted | May 22 02:17 |
schestowitz | so we can change it | May 22 02:17 |
mib_lnfom7 | I'm using the little embedded Mibbit on your website, how shall I share a screenshot? Image hosting service? | May 22 02:17 |
schestowitz | yes | May 22 02:17 |
schestowitz | post the link to the image | May 22 02:17 |
mib_lnfom7 | Self-destructs in one hour: https://ibb.co/QDy9VvH | May 22 02:19 |
*schestowitz checking | May 22 02:19 | |
schestowitz | I see | May 22 02:19 |
schestowitz | how would you prefer it to show? | May 22 02:20 |
mib_lnfom7 | I would like to be able to read the article titles without having to zoom in. I'm not a web developer, so I don't know how it was before or anything about it | May 22 02:21 |
schestowitz | we can change the css to make fonts bigger | May 22 02:21 |
schestowitz | just the articl etitles? | May 22 02:21 |
mib_lnfom7 | Aha! It looks fine in Firefox, but Chrome and Vivaldi look like the screenshot I shared above. Screenshot with Firefox: https://ibb.co/TkTkm9r | May 22 02:24 |
*schestowitz checking | May 22 02:24 | |
mib_lnfom7 | It must have been a recent upstream Chromium update since it happens in Chrome and Vivaldi | May 22 02:24 |
schestowitz | do you want us to make changes? | May 22 02:25 |
schestowitz | i can push via git now | May 22 02:25 |
mib_lnfom7 | You know what's causing it? | May 22 02:25 |
schestowitz | vivaldi is based on chromium | May 22 02:25 |
mib_lnfom7 | Yes, I know. I just said that | May 22 02:26 |
schestowitz | aha | May 22 02:26 |
schestowitz | if you can suggest the change, in css, i can push it | May 22 02:26 |
mib_lnfom7 | I don't know CSS, unfortunately. | May 22 02:27 |
schestowitz | so what you say is, chromium-based browsers have small fonts? | May 22 02:27 |
schestowitz | and zooming in does not help much? | May 22 02:28 |
schestowitz | in recent rendering engine versions? | May 22 02:28 |
mib_lnfom7 | Not really, because then I can only read a few words at a time and have to scroll back and forth to read one sentence | May 22 02:28 |
schestowitz | i see | May 22 02:28 |
schestowitz | let me pass it to a friend who can also assess the situation | May 22 02:28 |
schestowitz | and maybe we'll change for the latest adaptations at Google(R) | May 22 02:29 |
schestowitz | Google is not predictable | May 22 02:29 |
schestowitz | they change many things and even plan to break http, self-signed certs etc. | May 22 02:29 |
schestowitz | they 'own' the www | May 22 02:29 |
mib_lnfom7 | Okay, thanks. For now I can open the links in Firefox, I guess | May 22 02:30 |
schestowitz | np | May 22 02:30 |
mib_lnfom7 | Well, save those screenshots if needed since they'll self-destruct in just under an hour | May 22 02:31 |
schestowitz | i did | May 22 02:31 |
mib_lnfom7 | I'm going to close this out now, thanks. If I return, I'll use my usual username, markdubya. I forgot to change the default auto-generated one when I logged in | May 22 02:33 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Security Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Security_Leftovers.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Security_Leftovers.gmi β | May 22 02:34 |
*mib_lnfom7 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) | May 22 02:35 | |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Linux 6.4-rc3 β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Linux_6_4_rc3.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Linux_6_4_rc3.gmi β | May 22 02:58 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <XRevan86> https://bcow.xyz/posts/archiving-librarian/ | May 22 03:07 |
schestowitz-pi2 | -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- bcow.xyz | May 22 03:07 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <XRevan86> > Librarian will no longer be maintained | May 22 03:07 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> 0/ | May 22 03:07 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Today's ππΆπΉ ππ’π€π©πͺπ―π¦π΄ HowTos β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.gmi β | May 22 03:13 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): diffutils-3.10 released β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/diffutils_3_10_released.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/diffutils_3_10_released.gmi β | May 22 03:20 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Kiwi TCMS 12.3 β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Kiwi_TCMS_12_3.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Kiwi_TCMS_12_3.gmi β | May 22 03:23 |
techrights-news | Facebook https://www.engadget.com/meta-fixed-a-facebook-bug-that-sent-automatic-friend-requests-to-users-194753983.html | May 22 03:47 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): The Free Way To Speed Up An Old Apple Mac β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/The_Free_Way_To_Speed_Up_An_Old_Apple_Mac.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/The_Free_Way_To_Speed_Up_An_Old_Apple_Mac.gmi β | May 22 03:59 |
schestowitz | "Whatβs more, it offers small amounts of high-quality protein." https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods/buckwheat#nutrients | May 22 04:09 |
schestowitz-pi2 | Drop in cancer diagnoses in 2020 possibly linked to COVID-19 disruptions: Statistics Canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-cancer-diagnosis-2020-covid-19-statistics-canada-1.6846564 | May 22 04:23 |
techrights-news | Amazon cuts jobs in India: Microsoft, Google and other tech MNCs that have or may cut jobs https://www.gadgetsnow.com/slideshows/amazon-cuts-jobs-in-india-microsoft-google-and-other-tech-mncs-that-have-or-may-cut-jobs/photolist/100406047.cms | May 22 04:29 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Red Hat Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Red_Hat_Leftovers.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Red_Hat_Leftovers.gmi β | May 22 04:46 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Review: UBports 20.04 on PinePhone β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Review_UBports_20_04_on_PinePhone.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Review_UBports_20_04_on_PinePhone.gmi β | May 22 05:24 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): $25 Sipeed Tang Nano 20K FPGA board can simulate a RISC-V core, run Linux, retro games β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/_25_Sipeed_Tang_Nano_20K_FPGA_board_can_simulate_a_RISC_V_core_.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/_25_Sipeed_Tang_Nano_20K_FPGA_board_can_simulate_a_RISC_V_core_.gmi β | May 22 05:31 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Exploring Linux Advancements: GSoC 2023 Showcases Promising Projects β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Exploring_Linux_Advancements_GSoC_2023_Showcases_Promising_Proj.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Exploring_Linux_Advancements_GSoC_2023_Showcases_Promising_Proj.gmi β | May 22 05:31 |
techrights[sec]_ | Links are not actually that useful, the value of TR is in the original posts | May 22 06:00 |
techrights[sec]_ | especially regarding fighting sw patents | May 22 06:00 |
schestowitz-pi2 | yes, but this does require research and understanding | May 22 06:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | ratio of 1:10 | May 22 06:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | 1 writing | May 22 06:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | 10 reading, learning | May 22 06:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | spewing out text can be done by bots | May 22 06:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | (case of point: phoronix; catching up or keeping up with quota like 10 | May 22 06:05 |
schestowitz-pi2 | a day, some is trash about single line of code or blurb around a github | May 22 06:05 |
schestowitz-pi2 | URL) | May 22 06:05 |
techrights[sec]_ | How can the FSF be contacted and encouraged to come up with a plan about | May 22 06:06 |
techrights[sec]_ | where to focus lobbying efforts to get "public money, public code" enacted | May 22 06:06 |
techrights[sec]_ | at the federal level? | May 22 06:06 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i spoke to fsf hours ago | May 22 06:06 |
schestowitz-pi2 | or gnu rather | May 22 06:06 |
schestowitz-pi2 | see techbytes channel tomorrow | May 22 06:06 |
techrights[sec]_ | Excellent | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | I'll forget by then. :/ | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | They could probably get some advice directly or indirectly from Louis Rossmann's | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | recent efforts in regards to lobbying at the state level. But I (in my unexpert | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | opinion) think that the FSF needs to aim at the federal level since so much | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | procurement happens at that level and must also match federal guidelines even | May 22 06:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | when done by individual states. | May 22 06:09 |
schestowitz-pi2 | might contact my mp soon | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | regarding police/action fraud, maybe hmrc too | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | depending on outcome at the latter | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | before ombuds | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | maybe i can also mention freesw is a bond is made | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | our local MPs only care if THEY have something to gain from it | May 22 06:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | daily links are valuable for tuxmachines | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | not just TR | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | there's a mutual connection | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | android at TR is 100% rianne | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | aside from that, there are other information flows | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | so TR is filter/curator of sorts | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | social media [sic] is rotting anyway | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | it's very low yield/rio | May 22 06:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | *roi | May 22 06:13 |
techrights[sec]_ | Speaking of Android, I just saw the e-mail and have no idea what chrome on | May 22 06:13 |
techrights[sec]_ | the phone is doing to the layout. I have no "smart" phone to test on. There | May 22 06:13 |
techrights[sec]_ | might be an emulator somewhere. | May 22 06:13 |
techrights[sec]_ | Chromium has a pre-view to constraint | May 22 06:14 |
techrights[sec]_ | screen size, but news.tuxmachines.org looks line there. | May 22 06:14 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i'd be hesistant to make any changes based on one person's experience | May 22 06:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | there need to be strong justification | May 22 06:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | as any change disrupts workflow and habits | May 22 06:15 |
techrights[sec]_ | Without even a screenshot to look | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | at there is not even a guess at what to look at. | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | No changes yet but one report would make it appropriate to look into, but again | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | I have no mobile phone for that and am not going to go get one since they | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | are such a liability and ongoing time sink and continuous expense | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | Meta 05/22 21:00 SoylentNews Site Shutdown NCommander | May 22 06:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | (the story is back in the queue again :( | May 22 06:17 |
schestowitz-pi2 | tuxmachines has an android "app" | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | but maybe way out of date by now | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we must learn this carefully | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i did not read, but many lessons to be learned | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | to avoid this happening to us | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we know who stands to benefit from all those pages, comments, users | May 22 06:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | going to /dev/nul/ | May 22 06:19 |
techrights[sec]_ | It is primarily excessive complexity in the software which has killed the site | May 22 06:21 |
techrights[sec]_ | It was written at the height of the fashion to make code as "clever" and | May 22 06:21 |
techrights[sec]_ | abstract and complicated as one individual could manage. Not unlike systemd. | May 22 06:21 |
techrights[sec]_ | It's well-written, mostly, but an effort was made to avoid readability and | May 22 06:21 |
techrights[sec]_ | instead show off "cleverness" | May 22 06:21 |
schestowitz-pi2 | they should hand over to someone else | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | archive all old pages as static | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | start with simpler cms | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | that's what TM did | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | btw, this is what killed joindiaspora | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | complex software and too many 'hacks' bolted onto it to keep is from crashing | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | based on core devs who looked at the codebase and hacks on top | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | so they tossed it all under the buss | May 22 06:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | never delivered the migrators they had promised | May 22 06:22 |
techrights[sec]_ | yes, the same that killed off slashdot in the first place and those that pre- | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | emptively turned HN and Redddddddit to heavily censored trash. | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | It's not a matter of handing over to someone else, there is noone else. | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | As for the complexity, their CMS even uses Kerberos | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | If I were more healthy I could write a replacement in about a month to month and | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | a half, but my arm and neck feels like it has nails pounded into both. All time | May 22 06:24 |
techrights[sec]_ | in front of the screen should be avoided. | May 22 06:24 |
schestowitz-pi2 | can you scrape the site while it | May 22 06:25 |
schestowitz-pi2 | is online and can the licence permit mirroring? | May 22 06:25 |
schestowitz-pi2 | as all these sites go offline for good i find that TM and TR become | May 22 06:25 |
schestowitz-pi2 | more prominent in *unix related topics | May 22 06:25 |
schestowitz-pi2 | finding them among search results when i look for something else | May 22 06:25 |
techrights[sec]_ | It could be scraped, but that would be better for IA to do that. However, | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | there are some settings for the GET URLs which ought to have | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | &threshold=0&highlightthresh=2&commentsort=0&mode=threadtng | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | s/thresh=2/thresh=1/ | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | to avoid the severely truncated situation that Groklaw ended up in. | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | TM and TR offer no discussion capabilities. | May 22 06:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | discussion = liability | May 22 06:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and time spent | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | Yes, but SN is no about a list of links, not even about links in a timely manner | May 22 06:27 |
techrights[sec]_ | It is about community discussion and has been since day one. | May 22 06:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | if it does have a shutdown date set, and no recure plan, we can set up | May 22 06:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | a mirror, i hope | May 22 06:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | with params set to grab _all_ comments too | May 22 06:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | it would be a public service, preservation-wise | May 22 06:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | like PatentTrollTracker | May 22 06:29 |
techrights[sec]_ | +No idea; you have the heading of the queued post above which is as much as I know | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | as well. | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | To grab /all/ comments then s/thresh=2/thresh=0/ or even -1 but that would be | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | a waste IMHO. Just a sec. | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | All comments are there regardless, just folded at the threshold but still | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | available. | May 22 06:33 |
schestowitz-pi2 | that's great news | May 22 06:33 |
techrights[sec]_ | IA is now a javascript app not a web site any more | May 22 06:37 |
schestowitz-pi2 | sometimes js is intentional as a spider condom or bot condom | May 22 06:37 |
schestowitz-pi2 | sad, but i saw it firsthand | May 22 06:37 |
schestowitz-pi2 | one site, iranwiran, eventually realised this mistake | May 22 06:37 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and moved to drupal | May 22 06:38 |
schestowitz-pi2 | of course with aws and clownflare, which is a self-inflicted wound | May 22 06:38 |
schestowitz-pi2 | they had trust in me | May 22 06:38 |
schestowitz-pi2 | but he clownheads had more sway | May 22 06:38 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i did prevent some clients moving to "clown" | May 22 06:38 |
schestowitz-pi2 | lessons fro0m SN: | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | keep it simple, kiss | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | do not over-expand, it'll be harder in 10 years, don't look 10 days ahead | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | moderation is a chore | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | budget aspects | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | slow pace | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | backups (they lost a week's worth last year) | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | test the backups (i last did fs backup last night) | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | the fs contains db dumps in it, too | May 22 06:41 |
schestowitz-pi2 | anything else? | May 22 06:41 |
techrights[sec]_ | Yes, if you or Rianne could point me to /node examples on tm-old which are | May 22 06:46 |
techrights[sec]_ | multi-page that would be a very, very big help. | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | btw, phoronix turns 19 next week, then tm | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we go cycling in a few hours | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | as for tm, simplest transition is, | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | make strict rule for, ^node/number/ | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and point to mirror, static | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | anything else, for now, can be served with backend | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | but the url should stay the same, and domain too | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | to avoid penalties | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | let me check the patter of requests now | May 22 06:46 |
schestowitz-pi2 | based on latest logs, can add ?quicktabs* on node | May 22 06:52 |
schestowitz-pi2 | the stuff after that impacts what tabs are expanded | May 22 06:52 |
schestowitz-pi2 | but nothing special there, can be foldens onto just the node | May 22 06:52 |
schestowitz-pi2 | in latest 10k requests 5.4k are "node" | May 22 06:52 |
schestowitz-pi2 | in latest 100k, 57.4k | May 22 06:52 |
schestowitz-pi2 | so majority of requests can be funneled to static pages, I think | May 22 06:52 |
techrights[sec]_ | I'm not worried about that, I am working to archive multi-page nodes if I can | May 22 06:53 |
techrights[sec]_ | find an example within the next day or so. Othwewise it is fine to delete the | May 22 06:53 |
techrights[sec]_ | extra pages. | May 22 06:53 |
schestowitz-pi2 | http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128122 | May 22 07:00 |
schestowitz-pi2 | multi page for comments: | May 22 07:00 |
schestowitz-pi2 | or maybe not, depends on cookies | May 22 07:00 |
schestowitz-pi2 | check reviews section | May 22 07:00 |
schestowitz-pi2 | many multi-page articlews there | May 22 07:00 |
techrights[sec]_ | 128122 seems to be all one page | May 22 07:16 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i see, well spotted | May 22 07:24 |
schestowitz-pi2 | 50% or more of the traffic can be funnelled to static just fine | May 22 07:24 |
schestowitz-pi2 | reducing cpu/ram strain | May 22 07:24 |
schestowitz-pi2 | one upside of hey hi hype is, | May 22 07:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | it helps raise awareness around the ethics of tech "advancement" | May 22 07:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | btw, on sunday tm-old served about 175k reqs | May 22 07:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | not bad for a site left behind about a year ago | May 22 07:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | a 'dissent culture' against whatever you call "tech giants" | May 22 07:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | would do us good | May 22 07:35 |
techrights-news | SPAM page, new page, likely computer-generated garbage: "Such a backdrop does not prevent companies in the sector from being expanding your templateseven betting decisively on the teleworking modality." https://www.ruetir.com/2023/05/i-work-100-remotely-and-with-salaries-of-up-to-150000-euros-a-year-these-companies-are-looking-for-developers/ notice the bad text | May 22 07:39 |
techrights[sec]_ | Are there /any/ nodes on tm-old which are multi-page? | May 22 07:43 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i cannot find any right now, wonder if ages ago i changed settings to show | May 22 07:43 |
schestowitz-pi2 | all pages in one | May 22 07:43 |
techrights[sec]_ | No idea. I'll look at the gallery then tomorrow. | May 22 07:53 |
schestowitz-pi2 | leaving home soon, sunny already | May 22 07:53 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Recent Releases of GNU/Linux: Deepin OS, Tails, and Rocky Linux β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Recent_Releases_of_GNU_Linux_Deepin_OS_Tails_and_Rocky_Linux.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Recent_Releases_of_GNU_Linux_Deepin_OS_Tails_and_Rocky_Linux.gmi β | May 22 07:57 |
techrights-news | This Lawsuit Could Change How the Forest Service Fights Wildfires https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/05/california-wildfire-retardant-toxic-to-fish/674051/ | May 22 08:07 |
techrights-news | Gemini Links 22/05/2023: Titan Uploads and INN | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/titan-uploads-and-inn/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/titan-uploads-and-inn/ | May 22 08:20 |
schestowitz-pi2 | leaving 5 mins | May 22 08:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | one day when www is dead | May 22 08:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we'll have transitioned a lot of info to other protocols | May 22 08:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | carrying them forward | May 22 08:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | bl | May 22 08:22 |
schestowitz-pi2 | bbl | May 22 08:22 |
techrights-news | Links 22/05/2023: GNU Diffutils 3.10 and TCMS 12.3 | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/tcms-12-3/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/tcms-12-3/ | May 22 08:24 |
*DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) | May 22 09:17 | |
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #tuxmachines | May 22 11:01 | |
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #tuxmachines | May 22 11:09 | |
techrights[sec]_ | Are there /any/ nodes on tm-old which are multi-page? | May 22 11:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | No idea. I'll look at the gallery then tomorrow. | May 22 11:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | tr-old seems unreachable via HTTP/HTTPS | May 22 11:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | 9:30 am | May 22 11:17 |
techrights[sec]_ | back now: 10:20 | May 22 11:17 |
techrights-news | IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 21, 2023 | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/irc-log-210523/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/irc-log-210523/ | May 22 11:17 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: May 21st, 2023 β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/9to5Linux_Weekly_Roundup_May_21st_2023.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/9to5Linux_Weekly_Roundup_May_21st_2023.gmi β | May 22 11:17 |
schestowitz-pi2 | back | May 22 11:18 |
schestowitz-pi2 | echking | May 22 11:18 |
schestowitz-pi2 | site detected as down 9:30 | May 22 11:28 |
schestowitz-pi2 | back 10:15 or earlier | May 22 11:28 |
schestowitz-pi2 | not sure why, was afw | May 22 11:28 |
schestowitz-pi2 | did you restart httpd? | May 22 11:28 |
techrights[sec]_ | yes the second restart of httpd seems to have restored access | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | fantastic! thanks! | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we got 3 kg of fresh grapes and about 4 kg of apples | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | good price | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | that completes the weight-losing diet for 5 weeks rianne is away | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i always lose KGs when she is away | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | she leaves thurs, i will accompany her as the suitcase is 32kg | May 22 11:35 |
techrights[sec]_ | Is that over the limit? It might be cheaper / allowed to have 2x 16kg instead. | May 22 11:35 |
schestowitz-pi2 | 32kg is ok for the intl flight | May 22 11:36 |
schestowitz-pi2 | she will be posting to TM from laptop and be in mumble and IRC (TM channel) | May 22 11:42 |
schestowitz-pi2 | even in airports if power/conn available | May 22 11:42 |
techrights[sec]_ | Last I checked the limit here was 22kg. I hope I don't have to fly any more. | May 22 11:59 |
schestowitz-pi2 | even western and even third-world country prisons you can lie down supine | May 22 12:02 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and no babies crying around you ^_^ | May 22 12:02 |
*Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) | May 22 12:17 | |
*Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #tuxmachines | May 22 12:19 | |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Pgpool-II 4.4.3, 4.3.6, 4.2.13, 4.1.16 and 4.0.23 released. β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Pgpool_II_4_4_3_4_3_6_4_2_13_4_1_16_and_4_0_23_released.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Pgpool_II_4_4_3_4_3_6_4_2_13_4_1_16_and_4_0_23_released.gmi β | May 22 12:20 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Today's ππΆπΉ ππ’π€π©πͺπ―π¦π΄ HowTos β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.1.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.1.gmi β | May 22 12:21 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Devices: EuroPC, Raspberry Pi, Android, and GNU-like Mobile Linux β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Devices_EuroPC_Raspberry_Pi_Android_and_GNU_like_Mobile_Linux.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Devices_EuroPC_Raspberry_Pi_Android_and_GNU_like_Mobile_Linux.gmi β | May 22 13:08 |
techrights[sec]_ | Meta 05/22 21:27 The Future janrinok | May 22 13:11 |
techrights[sec]_ | ^ another in the queue | May 22 13:11 |
schestowitz-pi2 | i hope someone will take over | May 22 13:12 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and keep it online | May 22 13:12 |
schestowitz-pi2 | if IAM is done by kerberos | May 22 13:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and if the old material can be archived as static | May 22 13:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | they can retain old username and start with a simpler system | May 22 13:13 |
schestowitz-pi2 | but same community | May 22 13:13 |
techrights[sec]_ | I hope so, what is really needed though is a *serious* refactoring | May 22 13:14 |
techrights[sec]_ | That might be less of a challenge than trying to keep the old code afloat. | May 22 13:14 |
techrights[sec]_ | The old material can be made static, if I understand correctly that is part | May 22 13:14 |
techrights[sec]_ | of the workflow already since the beginning. | May 22 13:14 |
schestowitz-pi2 | site's hierarchy of needs | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | domain | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | community | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | content | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | domain as in identity/dns | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | and audience | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | retaining the legacy of people's contributions | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | the "home" can be changed provided you move all the things and people | May 22 13:15 |
schestowitz-pi2 | as happened with TM | May 22 13:16 |
schestowitz-pi2 | just got epo material | May 22 13:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | been quiet lately | May 22 13:29 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): ππΆπΉ ππ’π€π©πͺπ―π¦π΄: Google Android Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Android_Leftovers.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Android_Leftovers.gmi β | May 22 13:33 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Audiocasts/Shows: Free Software Security Podcast, GNU World Order, and Dedication to Jim Kloss β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Audiocasts_Shows_Free_Software_Security_Podcast_GNU_World_Order.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Audiocasts_Shows_Free_Software_Security_Podcast_GNU_World_Order.gmi β | May 22 13:54 |
techrights-news | Microsoft Layoffs Still Ongoing This Week in Nuance Communications | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/nuance-communications-layoffs/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/nuance-communications-layoffs/ | May 22 13:58 |
schestowitz-pi2 | added update on msft layoffs | May 22 14:02 |
schestowitz-pi2 | doing 8 pages of epo now | May 22 14:02 |
schestowitz-pi2 | then daily links etc | May 22 14:02 |
techrights[sec]_ | What's the running total in terms of rounds of layoffs and total staff? | May 22 14:04 |
techrights[sec]_ | Is there a count to-date at all? | May 22 14:04 |
schestowitz-pi2 | only msft hr knows | May 22 14:04 |
techrights-news | Comments on the European Patent Officeβs Strategic Plan to Survive Another 5 Years | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/epo-strategic-plan-sp2028/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/epo-strategic-plan-sp2028/ | May 22 14:51 |
techrights-news | [Meme] Captain AntΓ³nioβs Strategic Plan SP2028 | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/epo-strategic-plan-sp2028-meme/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/epo-strategic-plan-sp2028-meme/ | May 22 15:04 |
techrights-news | Holding Criminals Accountable β Part VIII β Lots More to Come After Police Inaction | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/sirius-after-police-inaction/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/sirius-after-police-inaction/ | May 22 15:39 |
schestowitz-pi2 | tr backup completed | May 22 15:39 |
schestowitz-pi2 | next: bubi (tonight) | May 22 15:39 |
techrights[sec]_ | How big a chance is there that the European Patent Office will now be forced to | May 22 15:40 |
techrights[sec]_ | comply with the legal obligations presented by the European Patent Conevntion? | May 22 15:40 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Today in Techrights β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Today_in_Techrights.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Today_in_Techrights.gmi β | May 22 15:53 |
schestowitz-pi2 | will ec/eu focrce it with upc? naaa, fat chance... | May 22 15:54 |
schestowitz-pi2 | notes for sirius: | May 22 15:54 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): pgmetrics 1.15 released β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/pgmetrics_1_15_released.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/pgmetrics_1_15_released.gmi β | May 22 16:17 |
schestowitz-pi2 | my MP might do nothing. If so, that too is noteworthy | May 22 16:54 |
techrights[sec]_ | pong | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | The 'My "pension"' sentence might lead with the fact that the company withdrew | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | money from your paycheck under the pretence of contributing to the fund but | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | ]nevery actually did so. The current wording could be made more clear. | May 22 16:55 |
schestowitz-pi2 | thanks! | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | As for | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | turning away victims ensure that it is clear tthat there are many of your | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | former colleagues in the mess as well. | May 22 16:55 |
techrights[sec]_ | The closing line is quite clear, which is important. | May 22 16:56 |
schestowitz-pi2 | if she does not respond, i will move to the next, as I did with EPO and MEPs | May 22 17:01 |
schestowitz-pi2 | not mass mailing, 2 or 3 max | May 22 17:01 |
techrights[sec]_ | I would suspect that this kind of ripoff or scam is very common nowadays | May 22 17:02 |
techrights[sec]_ | and it is a matter of finding the currently hidden channels for dealing | May 22 17:02 |
techrights[sec]_ | with pension scams. | May 22 17:02 |
schestowitz-pi2 | thanks! | May 22 17:02 |
techrights[sec]_ | https://soylentnews.org/meta/article.pl?sid=23/05/20/0343254 | May 22 17:10 |
techrights[sec]_ | :( | May 22 17:10 |
schestowitz-pi2 | start scraping | May 22 17:12 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): ππΆπΉ ππ’π€π©πͺπ―π¦π΄: Google Android Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Android_Leftovers.1.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Android_Leftovers.1.gmi β | May 22 17:13 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Security Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Security_Leftovers.1.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Security_Leftovers.1.gmi β | May 22 17:35 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Free, Libre, and Open Source Software Leftovers β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Free_Libre_and_Open_Source_Software_Leftovers.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Free_Libre_and_Open_Source_Software_Leftovers.gmi β | May 22 17:35 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Programming and Standards β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Programming_and_Standards.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Programming_and_Standards.gmi β | May 22 17:36 |
schestowitz-pi2 | if you scrape, set sleep/timer | May 22 17:36 |
schestowitz-pi2 | to avoid getting blocked | May 22 17:36 |
schestowitz-pi2 | we almost did that with Linux Journal | May 22 17:36 |
schestowitz-pi2 | it got rescued a few times | May 22 17:36 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Steam Deck Games, Language Choice in initrd, SoylentNews Site Shutdown β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Steam_Deck_Games_Language_Choice_in_initrd_SoylentNews_Site_Shu.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Steam_Deck_Games_Language_Choice_in_initrd_SoylentNews_Site_Shu.gmi β | May 22 17:36 |
techrights-news | http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/smolver-security-hole-fixed/ | May 22 17:42 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Gemini Articles of Interest β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Gemini_Articles_of_Interest.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/Gemini_Articles_of_Interest.gmi β | May 22 17:42 |
techrights-news | Gemini Links 22/05/2023: Smolver Security Hole Fixed | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/smolver-security-hole-fixed/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/smolver-security-hole-fixed/ | May 22 17:43 |
techrights-news | Links 22/05/2023: SoylentNews Site to Shut Down and New Releases of Pgpool-II Now Available | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/soylentnews-site-to-shut-down/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/soylentnews-site-to-shut-down/ | May 22 17:47 |
techrights[sec]_ | It involves processing javascripts so there is no way to do it in an automated | May 22 18:04 |
techrights[sec]_ | manner that I know of and doing it manually is a MONUMENTAL expendeture of time | May 22 18:04 |
techrights[sec]_ | e.g. it took 30 minutes to archive 15 pages | May 22 18:04 |
techrights-news | β² πΏππ πΈπππππππ ⨦ (NEW): Today's ππΆπΉ ππ’π€π©πͺπ―π¦π΄ HowTos β¨ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.2.shtml | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/05/22/today_s_howtos.2.gmi β | May 22 18:16 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <XRevan86> https://wsj.com/articles/jeffrey-epstein-bill-gates-affair-russian-bridge-player-8b2022ff | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- Jeffrey Epstein Appeared to Threaten Bill Gates Over Microsoft Co-Founderβs Affair With Russian Bridge Player - WSJ | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> might be a decoy | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> there might be more | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> past years said he slept with many | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> so maybe they shift focus away from young | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> and also make him look like VICTIM of Epstein | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> after some sites brought up question | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> the story was "broken" byn publisher of Bill's friend | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> WSJ (Rupert murdoch) | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> so I am sceptical of the motives | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> "well, he's dead" | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> remember bill went to PRISON to visit Epstein | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> that article might be bill's spinner st work | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> framing him as a person of infidelity | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> rather than crime | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> since "well, he's dead", Bill's PR spinners can come up with anything | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> and Epstein cannot refuse or respond | May 22 18:19 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <schestowitz> *refute | May 22 18:19 |
techrights[sec]_ | probably a red herring or strawman, definitely a distraction | May 22 18:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> Microsoft healthcare AI subsidiary Nuance hit with job cuts https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/disruptors/microsoft-healthcare-ai-subsidiary-nuance-hit-with-job-cuts.html | May 22 18:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | did not even add to irc or daily links | May 22 18:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | he can afford spin | May 22 18:27 |
schestowitz-pi2 | :Thank you for getting in touch with me. | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | This acknowledgment has been triggered automatically as I havent yet had chance to read y | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | our email. Emails are treated in the same manner and with the same level of importance as | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | other communications such as post, telephone and fax. Nevertheless I will try to respond t | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | o you promptly. | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | If you are getting in touch about something urgent then please call on 0161 232 0872 | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | There are strict Parliamentary rules in place which mean that I am only allowed to act on | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | behalf of residents in my own constituency so please remember to include the following inf | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | ormation in your email: | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | Thank you for getting in touch with me. | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | This acknowledgment has been triggered automatically as I havent yet had chance to read y | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | our email. Emails are treated in the same manner and with the same level of importance as | May 22 18:29 |
schestowitz-pi2 | other communications such as post, telephone and fax. Nevertheless I will try to respond t | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | o you promptly. | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | If you are getting in touch about something urgent then please call on 0161 232 0872 | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | There are strict Parliamentary rules in place which mean that I am only allowed to act on | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | behalf of residents in my own constituency so please remember to include the following inf | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | ormation in your email: | May 22 18:30 |
schestowitz-pi2 | : | May 22 18:30 |
techrights-news | IBM Versus GNU/Linux Community (Including Fedora) | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/ibm-and-fedora/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/ibm-and-fedora/ | May 22 18:59 |
techrights-news | IBM Loves Microsoft | Techrights β http://techrights.org/2023/05/22/ibm-loves-microsoft/ | βΎ Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2023/05/22/ibm-loves-microsoft/ | May 22 19:04 |
schestowitz-pi2 | backing up bubi (laptop) | May 22 19:08 |
schestowitz-pi2 | gn | May 22 19:08 |
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