| *twitter_sucks (i=18031090@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f6bf3af75db85634) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 00:59 |
| *twitter_sucks has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 01:00 |
| *macabe (i=43f0d869@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-98772e00353c2516) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 02:37 |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 19 02:48 |
| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Sep 19 03:02 |
| *jose has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 19 03:14 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 03:55 |
| *neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 04:07 |
| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 04:15 |
| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Sep 19 04:34 |
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 04:36 |
| *macabe has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 19 04:38 |
| *macabe (i=43f0d869@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52b94027153ed11c) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 04:41 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 19 05:00 |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 19 05:30 |
| *kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 05:50 |
| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 06:09 |
| *kentma1 (n=user@host81-157-148-34.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 06:11 |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 06:12 |
| *pombat42 has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 19 06:34 |
| schestowitz | Bush been sued: http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... | Sep 19 07:38 |
|---|
| *kentma (n=user@host86-153-159-217.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 07:40 |
| *kentma1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 07:41 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.65.252.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 07:54 |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 08:10 |
| *kentma (n=user@host86-153-159-217.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 08:12 |
| schestowitz | Now it's Nvidia taking a tumble: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008... http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008... | Sep 19 08:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | And Creative also: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008... | Sep 19 08:22 |
|---|
| Tallken | normal for creative, do their sound cards work with Vista as they did with XP yet? | Sep 19 08:31 |
|---|
| Tallken | due to licensing issues | Sep 19 08:31 |
|---|
| Tallken | they couldn't enable all the functionality in their driver in Vista | Sep 19 08:32 |
|---|
| Tallken | lame | Sep 19 08:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Same in Linux. | Sep 19 08:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They are still a no-go area for GNU/Linux because they don't do much to deserve business. | Sep 19 08:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://too.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default | Sep 19 08:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oops. (that, BTW, is Brin's new blog). I meant to paste this one: http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?b... | Sep 19 08:34 |
|---|
| Tallken | massive discussion @ #ubuntu-offtopic about a home user wants from his/her OS | Sep 19 08:37 |
|---|
| Tallken | ouch 226 pages on that Creative thread | Sep 19 08:55 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, half a million pageviews. | Sep 19 08:56 |
|---|
| *Tallken has quit (Excess Flood) | Sep 19 09:17 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.65.252.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 09:17 |
| *Tallken has quit (Excess Flood) | Sep 19 09:17 |
| *Odd_Bloke (n=oddbloke@daniel-watkins.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 19 09:20 |
| *[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 09:26 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.65.252.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 09:35 |
| *[H]omer (n=[H]omer@amsterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 09:37 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Sep 19 09:37 |
| *[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep | Sep 19 09:37 |
| *moparx has quit ("leaving") | Sep 19 09:44 |
| schestowitz | There is this new Red Hat article which makes it seem like Linus initiated the GNU/Linux operating system, which he didn't. There needs to be something to distinguish here. Linux€® is not an operating system. It's a platform, a kernel. Why can't Red Hat and Novell ever get it right? They bypass GNU and FSF. | Sep 19 09:49 |
|---|
| *seller_liar (n=lucian@201-42-214-69.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 10:35 |
| Tallken | URL? | Sep 19 10:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I've lost it. | Sep 19 10:42 |
|---|
| Tallken | LOL | Sep 19 10:42 |
|---|
| Tallken | I suppose that's why FSF wants everyone to treat the system as GNU/Linux | Sep 19 10:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | The problem is that they sort of rewrite history and new 'Linux' users believe that it was created in 1991. They therefore miss the philosophy entirely and are willing to turn their O/S into another OS X. | Sep 19 10:46 |
|---|
| Tallken | ROFL | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| Tallken | ya | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| Tallken | but most of them get fed up | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| Tallken | and buy a Mac | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| Tallken | the problem is | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Of course, because they fail to see what GNU/Linux *is* | Sep 19 10:50 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If they don't understand and value their freedom, then short-term comfort is all they'll judge by. | Sep 19 10:51 |
|---|
| Tallken | and let me check if it indeed was "our" "arch-enemy" Miguel de Icaza who said this | Sep 19 10:51 |
|---|
| Tallken | -- Googling -- | Sep 19 10:51 |
|---|
| schestowitz | de Icazq turns GNU/Linux into poor man's Windows and makes developers feel that way too. Which is wrong. | Sep 19 10:52 |
|---|
| Tallken | Yay I'm the master of Google :D | Sep 19 10:59 |
|---|
| Tallken | actually it was in Miguel's blog | Sep 19 10:59 |
|---|
| Tallken | lol | Sep 19 10:59 |
|---|
| Tallken | anyway, in this rather old post | Sep 19 11:00 |
|---|
| Tallken | he bashes GNU/Linux developers who migrated to OSX | Sep 19 11:00 |
|---|
| Tallken | http://tirania.org/blog/archiv... | Sep 19 11:00 |
|---|
| Tallken | (apropos GTK3) | Sep 19 11:00 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: indirect mozilla firefox attack | Sep 19 11:01 |
|---|
| Tallken | hum? | Sep 19 11:01 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Where? | Sep 19 11:01 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: remember , icaza talks about mozilla developers | Sep 19 11:02 |
|---|
| Tallken | "rhult, hallski and kris" ? | Sep 19 11:03 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: mozilla develpers use mac | Sep 19 11:03 |
|---|
| Tallken | they're free to do so | Sep 19 11:03 |
|---|
| Tallken | as long as Firefox works well and with no EULAs lol | Sep 19 11:04 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: I know ,but icaza attacks mozilla devs | Sep 19 11:04 |
|---|
| Tallken | hum ok, didn't know that | Sep 19 11:05 |
|---|
| seller_liar | http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ | Sep 19 11:06 |
|---|
| seller_liar | what f*cking hell is this? | Sep 19 11:06 |
|---|
| Tallken | LOL | Sep 19 11:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They reverse it. | Sep 19 11:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It should be Novell/Microsoft/Linux | Sep 19 11:06 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: how to convince people about ms-novell bad tatics? | Sep 19 11:07 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: m$-novell inderectly attacks red hat too | Sep 19 11:08 |
|---|
| Tallken | you can't | Sep 19 11:09 |
|---|
| Tallken | just spread the site | Sep 19 11:09 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: why? | Sep 19 11:09 |
|---|
| Tallken | if they don't hear once | Sep 19 11:09 |
|---|
| Tallken | probably you should let them go on with their life | Sep 19 11:09 |
|---|
| Tallken | because I know an old Slackware user | Sep 19 11:10 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: politics is not optional | Sep 19 11:10 |
|---|
| Tallken | who is using openSuSE | Sep 19 11:10 |
|---|
| Tallken | and for him openSuSE being sponsored by Novell means nothing | Sep 19 11:10 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: people always have this behavior | Sep 19 11:11 |
|---|
| Tallken | I gave up on him | Sep 19 11:11 |
|---|
| Tallken | he was a fscking Slackware user | Sep 19 11:11 |
|---|
| Tallken | using Linux way before I did | Sep 19 11:11 |
|---|
| Tallken | well versed on Linux story and apps | Sep 19 11:11 |
|---|
| Tallken | I mean | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: And , why using Opensuse | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: He did not know about gnu? | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| Tallken | he does know all that | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: gnu is politics and ethical decisions | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| schestowitz | seller_liar: they attack the top contributor. | Sep 19 11:12 |
|---|
| Tallken | I understand new people using openSuSE | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | From the news: http://www.sdtimes.com/RED_HAT_TOPS_LIST_OF_CO... (Red Hat tops list of corporate Linux code contributors ) | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| Tallken | or even Microsoft if they ever launch one | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| Tallken | just not "old" Slackware users who should know better | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Yes but citing the competitor is a very dirty attack | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They try to hit GNU/Linux by harming its developers and blood supply. As for Novell, it's still a proprietary s/w company that promotes .NET, ActiveX and other such junk. | Sep 19 11:13 |
|---|
| Tallken | the problem is they now have the money to keep things flowing | Sep 19 11:14 |
|---|
| Tallken | I suppose a) most developers don't care ; b) been brainwashed ; c) believe they can get the best of it and ignore the bad | Sep 19 11:14 |
|---|
| Tallken | I believe in c) honestly | Sep 19 11:15 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: OpenSUSE makes SLED/SLED, i.e. Microsoft-taxed Linux. It weakens contributors to GNU/Linux and empowers Microsoft <put technology name here> | Sep 19 11:15 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Yes roy , I know , I remember about netware | Sep 19 11:15 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Talken: Every act in society ,whenever good or bad, have dual consequences | Sep 19 11:16 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Your user someday will pay for the act | Sep 19 11:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, they share ba roof. | Sep 19 11:16 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: What? | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| schestowitz | OSDL is said to have collapsed because Stuart Cohen nodded to what Novell did. | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| Tallken | BTW, found this now by accident | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| Tallken | http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/2008/0... | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| schestowitz | When Red Hat and Novell share a roof at Linus Foundation, that means that Microsoft agenda is up there to conflict with Red Hat's | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Yes, remember, some time ago I have discussed this | Sep 19 11:17 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: And can have more.... | Sep 19 11:18 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Should Red Hat swallow the Mono and Moonlight poison pill? Well, Novell helps in dividing because it's irrational for Red Hat to hook up with a company that compared it to cancer. | Sep 19 11:18 |
|---|
| Tallken | LOL only understood now what you were saying | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| Tallken | Greg Kroah-Hartman is from Novell? | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Yes | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Until a joint roof like Linux Foundation (I made a typo earlier) rids itself from Microsoft/Novell influence, there will be trouble. | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: yes, he is. | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Do not believe in Linux Foundation | Sep 19 11:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | See this one: http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/1... (with pictures) | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Linus, Alan, Ted | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Alan is with Red hat. | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | He denounced the Novell deal and advocated GPLv3 several times. | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: but all them have fear about Sol | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Linus is torn apart because the sellouts from Novell he must be nice to (Greg, Novell's funding, etc.) | Sep 19 11:20 |
|---|
| seller_liar | schestowitz: and all believe in Linux and not in Gnu Linux | Sep 19 11:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I care about Free software. Linux has excellent hardware support, so it's safe to bet on it as the kernel right now. | Sep 19 11:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Solaris/OpenSolaris is still GPL-allergic, by design. | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| Tallken | I don't think Linus will abstain from acting if needed | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: he sort of denounced what I do | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| Tallken | the question Linus isn't a FSF follower; they have overlapping interests | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| Tallken | schestowitz: denounced how? | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: he uses Fedora at least.... no Novell for him. | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| Tallken | but for the time, I doubt he'll take actions | Sep 19 11:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: he said that anti-Novell sentiments were not productive. Wasn't specific about his targets though... | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| Tallken | unless Novell does some major screw up that points blatantly their objectives | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| Tallken | Well, they aren't | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: Novell has already done that. | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| Tallken | in his point of view | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| Tallken | as I said | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "Intellectual property peace of mind" from their PR Director. | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| Tallken | ""the question Linus isn't a FSF follower; they have overlapping interests"" | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They try to shut up the developers ahead of the latest announcement. I inquired with journalists and wrote about it. | Sep 19 11:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell/Microsoft are like spooks that try to manufacture and control public perception. | Sep 19 11:24 |
|---|
| Tallken | may be dismissed as some dirty marketing, as expected (unfortunately) from companies... They're leveraging their partnership. Doesn't mean they'll stop promoting Linux | Sep 19 11:24 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: only "Linux" , no Gnu Linux | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| Tallken | schestowitz: I understand what you're saying and I agree | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | At whose expense? Java? Red Hat? GNU? Fight against software patents? | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell acts selfishly for its survival. | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| Tallken | my point is just, for Linus, there hasn't been a clear reason for him to intervene | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Yes, | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | See my posts from last night. I believe Novell is on the verge of bankruptcy and it relies on Microsoft for some lifeline./ | Sep 19 11:25 |
|---|
| Tallken | I may be wrong here, but he didn't even sign that document dismissing binary only modules, did he? | Sep 19 11:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell already seemed to be on the cliff when Messman was ousted and Novell came to Microsoft, their decades-long fierce competitor (and defendant in a major court case) | Sep 19 11:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Tallken: you're correcy. | Sep 19 11:27 |
|---|
| Tallken | so, Linus is an ally of open source, but not software libre | Sep 19 11:28 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Linus live the old system with a new methodology (free-open source) | Sep 19 11:28 |
|---|
| Tallken | seller_liar: diz essa frase em português que eu não percebi nada :D | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: vc está brincando comigo né | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| Tallken | (I said him to rephrase the sentence cmg) | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | For all I can tell, GPL was an afterthought for Linus -- a way of attracting more devs. | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| Tallken | (I said him to rephrase the sentence) | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| Tallken | lol | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| Tallken | rephrase then | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Talken:Linus vive o mesmo sistema mercantil ,só mudou a metodologia (open source) | Sep 19 11:29 |
|---|
| Tallken | ah | Sep 19 11:30 |
|---|
| Tallken | "Linus lives the old system with a new methodology (free-open source)" | Sep 19 11:30 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: Ou seja , dinheiro e técnica sobre politica | Sep 19 11:30 |
|---|
| Tallken | not really, it was a carefully crafted license which allowed open-source to be kept open-source | Sep 19 11:31 |
|---|
| Tallken | originally, he only allowed distribution in source form | Sep 19 11:31 |
|---|
| Tallken | binary distribution was forbidden | Sep 19 11:31 |
|---|
| Tallken | For schestowitz, translation: "Meaning, money and technical knowledge over politics/philosophy" | Sep 19 11:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, there wasn't as much as 650MB of Free software. | Sep 19 11:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | How much does OOo, for example, take up now? | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Tallken: ok , thanks | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| Tallken | seller_liar: Ya, undertood now :) | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| Tallken | wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much xD | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| Tallken | let me see if I have the debs | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| Tallken | nop | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | 20 GB on the Debian repos (or more) | Sep 19 11:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | OOo 3.0 is out later this month. | Sep 19 11:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I think around 150 MB in size (binary, no extensions) | Sep 19 11:33 |
|---|
| Tallken | hum? that much? | Sep 19 11:33 |
|---|
| Tallken | but in source? | Sep 19 11:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | With clipart? | Sep 19 11:34 |
|---|
| Tallken | ah | Sep 19 11:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Ha! I was right: http://download.openoffice.org/680/ 150 MB for GNU/Linux | Sep 19 11:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | The deb is 147 MB | Sep 19 11:35 |
|---|
| Tallken | finished reading http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/greg... | Sep 19 11:36 |
|---|
| Tallken | LOL @ "When this sort of thing happens on mailing lists, it’s called trolling." | Sep 19 11:37 |
|---|
| Tallken | (at the very end) | Sep 19 11:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | He's not a troll, he a lizard (SUSE). | Sep 19 11:37 |
|---|
| Tallken | lulz | Sep 19 11:38 |
|---|
| Tallken | anyway | Sep 19 11:38 |
|---|
| Tallken | going offline | Sep 19 11:38 |
|---|
| Tallken | [[]] | Sep 19 11:38 |
|---|
| Tallken | cya later | Sep 19 11:38 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Will do | Sep 19 11:40 |
|---|
| *Tallken has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 11:41 |
| *seller_liar has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 11:57 |
| *seller_liar (n=lucian@201-42-214-69.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Someone has alerted me that this page is missing: http://www.apdip.net/projects/gif . It's in Google cache: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:... | Sep 19 12:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "This is Google's cache of http://www.apdip.net/projects/gif. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 8 Sep 2008 06:03:49 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime." [Works OKAY.] Maybe downtime? "The service is not available. Please try again later." http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.apdip.... It's an important ODF page. | Sep 19 12:22 |
|---|
| *seller_liar has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 12:34 |
| schestowitz | Got this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/19/why-no... From the source: "So you might think about a way to include the content on your website as an entry or referral any time such an argument comes up again. Just point to this page and maybe these arguments from AlexH and Co., what makes DotNET different than lets say Python become tiresome and pointless." | Sep 19 13:01 |
|---|
| *trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-236-155.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 13:30 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@bl10-19-214.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 13:44 |
| twitter | The Nvidia news is sad, but it goes to show that cooperating with M$ is not really a winning strategy. | Sep 19 13:52 |
|---|
| twitter | Bruce Perens wrote some stuff about them doing bad things to free software acceleration. | Sep 19 13:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Got URL? | Sep 19 13:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I knew they screw with KDE4 (not deliberately) | Sep 19 13:53 |
|---|
| twitter | I'll dig it up. I tried a google search the other day and got nowhere. | Sep 19 13:53 |
|---|
| twitter | Here's a start, the story of 3dFx http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s... | Sep 19 13:58 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oh, I see now. Very Microsoft-like. | Sep 19 14:03 |
|---|
| twitter | It seems connected to OpenGL too. | Sep 19 14:05 |
|---|
| twitter | Yes, very M$ like. | Sep 19 14:05 |
|---|
| *wagan (i=d5b38a82@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b650ce4f8f4083c0) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 14:06 |
| wagan | anybody here? | Sep 19 14:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: Recent Nvidia stories: | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Nvidia sued for violations of federal securities law : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Analyst says AMD gaining ground vs. Intel, Nvidia : http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/analyst-says... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Nvidia chipsets are history : http://www.theinquirer.net/feeds/rss/generic/en... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | How Closed Does Nvid[i]a want to Be? : http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/07/ho... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Nvidia "opens can of whoop-ass" on itself : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/0... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Kernel space: drivers that don't make the kernel scene : http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2008/06... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | How NVidia impedes Free Desktop adoption : http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819 | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation points finger at Nvidia : http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9975720-7.html?par... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Position Statement on Linux Kernel Modules : https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Ker... | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | NVidia says no to request to release open source drivers, once again : http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2588 | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| wagan | what the hell happens here? | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| wagan | what the hell happens here? | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| wagan | what the hell happens here? | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | :-) | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| wagan | spam | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | We were just having a discussion about NVidia. | Sep 19 14:07 |
|---|
| wagan | ok sorry | Sep 19 14:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Trying to find some particfular old article. | Sep 19 14:08 |
|---|
| wagan | good evening | Sep 19 14:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter found http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=... | Sep 19 14:08 |
|---|
| *wagan has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 14:09 |
| schestowitz | And it's relevant because massive layoffs are about to hit. | Sep 19 14:09 |
|---|
| twitter | Here's a reversal of the usual story about Nvidia and 3D graphics. Back in 2000, they were caught using GPL'd code in their non free drivers. http://slashdot.org/features/00/05/01/0047219.shtml | Sep 19 14:13 |
|---|
| *Tallken has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 14:13 |
| twitter | Stealing free software and using it to harm free software, that's the non free software business model. | Sep 19 14:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, that's Novell. | Sep 19 14:14 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.misc.discuss/... | Sep 19 14:15 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.... "Nvidia is to rid itself of 6.5 per cent of its worldwide workforce, the graphics chip maker has admitted." | Sep 19 14:16 |
|---|
| twitter | Can you find a non free software program that does not have roots in free software? Browsers came from mosaic. Math programs came from Maxsyma. | Sep 19 14:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Free software exists in many applications. I reused a few things in my Free software too (very little though) | Sep 19 14:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | PPM importer for example | Sep 19 14:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If you ever want to intimidate McAfee (who attack FOSS), then mention GPL violations (corruption too): http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&nu... | Sep 19 14:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Microsoft still uses celebs to embarrass itself: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/International_Business/De... | Sep 19 14:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Sweatie B is going mad again. http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtrac... | Sep 19 14:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "At Microsoft's company meeting today, CEO Steve Ballmer was in full cheerleader mode, running around the stage, high-fiving Microsoft employees at Safeco Field, breathing hard and yelling into the microphone, said one observer, who asked to remain anonymous while describing an event that was closed to the public." | Sep 19 14:34 |
|---|
| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 14:54 |
| twitter | Ha ha. I like how the article explodes the logic of Ballmer's iPhone hate. | Sep 19 14:59 |
|---|
| twitter | Ballmer does not want to build a phone because he thinks no single phone will ever have more than 25% of the market. An OS, he says, can dominate more than that. | Sep 19 15:00 |
|---|
| schestowitz | That's flawed logic | Sep 19 15:00 |
|---|
| twitter | In more than one way. The author goes on to say M$ has 12% of the mobile market ... | Sep 19 15:00 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Mind you, at this very moment I'm plowing through many articles about Microsoft's shutting down its Halo developer | Sep 19 15:00 |
|---|
| schestowitz | XBox has cost Microsoft _so much_ and I can't help wondering how much money the company is losing. | Sep 19 15:01 |
|---|
| twitter | What it really boils down to is that M$ is a one trick pony. Zune, xbox and others are massive failures. | Sep 19 15:01 |
|---|
| twitter | Probably because they all share such a poor base, which should be the number 1 failure, Windows. | Sep 19 15:02 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I posted this one some hours ago. You might want to take a glimpse: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li... | Sep 19 15:02 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I notice that Google Groups went through an overhaul. No more bump-based display and sorting of threads, which is good. | Sep 19 15:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Windows is not so profitable either, but it's close to Office. Office too is copied illegally (with Microsoft's silent consent), so it doesn't generate as much revenue as people imagine. | Sep 19 15:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | More Microsoft propaganda (spotted 10 seconds ago): http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/18/bu... ( Microsoft: 83 pct of Montenegro software pirated ) Coming from the company that says so-called "piracy" heps it. | Sep 19 15:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/n... "Microsoft explained that an issue with the Exchange Web Service component is leading the update to send some servers into a continuous crash cycle." | Sep 19 15:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Search business is still falling for Microsoft as well < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/comscore-rele... >. Not good, not good. | Sep 19 15:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Another one (Microsoft is on a roll at the moment): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-10041856-36.html ("A would-be social network called Wallop has shut its doors, according to a message on the home page.") | Sep 19 15:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/17598/Peter-... ( Peter Moore: MS Considered Buying Nintendo ) | Sep 19 15:14 |
|---|
| twitter | The blackouts, we saw that earlier. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/210145 | Sep 19 15:24 |
|---|
| twitter | It's nice to see the backlash. | Sep 19 15:24 |
|---|
| schestowitz | People like to describe XP as though it's suddenly a comfy cushion, not a malware magnet. is there an xpfailurelog? I'm amused by the idea of comparing Mandriva 2008.1 on this PC to something like XP or Vista. | Sep 19 15:25 |
|---|
| twitter | There was a good comparison of Mepis and Vista, but it has been taken down I think. | Sep 19 15:27 |
|---|
| twitter | No, I take that back, the take down was a comparison of Outlook, Thunderbird and Kontact. | Sep 19 15:28 |
|---|
| twitter | Where did you get the blackout quote? | Sep 19 15:28 |
|---|
| twitter | never mind, got it. | Sep 19 15:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | SJVN did a good MEPIS-Vista comparison over a year ago. It's in eWeek/Ziff-Davis. | Sep 19 15:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I have heaps of Vista failures documented (over a thousand). It's like that some of them you could find handy. | Sep 19 15:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *likely | Sep 19 15:30 |
|---|
| twitter | Yes, it is. | Sep 19 15:31 |
|---|
| twitter | I don't know of an XP failure log. | Sep 19 15:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I'm finding lots of stuff today about Microsoft's $300 million advertising. | Sep 19 15:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | We 'owe' one to Apple for creating a negative stereotype for Windows and having it stick with hundreds of millions. | Sep 19 15:32 |
|---|
| *libervisco has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Sep 19 15:34 |
| *MinceR has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Sep 19 15:34 |
| twitter | This is the power of broadcast media, which is ultimately harmful. | Sep 19 15:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, and Helios was trying racing cars to promote tux. :-) No budget of $300 million or $500 million (according to otyh | Sep 19 15:34 |
|---|
| twitter | People already knew M$ sucks. Apple simply validated the viewpoint through advertising. | Sep 19 15:34 |
|---|
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 15:35 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fairhome.co.uk/2008/09/... "Japan-based games console company Nintendo came last in the rankings, with a score of 0.8, whilst world renowned software-maker Microsoft was placed second last with a score of just 2.2." | Sep 19 15:35 |
|---|
| twitter | New windows versions are always a low point for M$ because they must break their old version to sell the new. | Sep 19 15:36 |
|---|
| schestowitz | There are tons of articles about Pete Moore and his interview with the Guardian. He talks about his departure too. Just like the head of the Zune project, he appears to have abandoned this failed project. Zune was headless for about 6 months, IIRC. Let me find the ref. | Sep 19 15:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oh, it's the use of the word "gang" by Microsoft which amused me. Here are the details: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advoc | Sep 19 15:38 |
|---|
| *libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 15:39 |
| schestowitz | twitter: I notice that CA is boosting Microsoft at the moment (after their corruption scandal and reappointment at the top). Can you figure out or do you know their relationship with Microsoft? I can only google it to find out, but maybe you know some history about the pair. | Sep 19 15:41 |
|---|
| twitter | The story of XP and Vista is the same as XP and 98 or 98 and 95. M$ makes each version suck a little harder, so the last version always looks good by comparison. The restrictions grow but things that matter continue to suck. | Sep 19 15:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.microsoft.com/isv/ca/ | Sep 19 15:42 |
|---|
| twitter | will try. | Sep 19 15:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: I hear that it's revisionist. XP was not resisted nearly as strongly as Vista. Microsoft uses this big lie to make it seem like Vista is inevitable. | Sep 19 15:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This is why I ask: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Devel... Why would CA sponsor a study like this? What has it got to /gain/? | Sep 19 15:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://community.ca.com/blogs/iam/archive/2008/04/0... | Sep 19 15:43 |
|---|
| twitter | this is not entirely revisionist and it does not make Vista inevitable. Each new version of Windows has met greater user resistance. The end of that trend is rejection. | Sep 19 15:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This one on CA and Java is over a decade old: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0... I'll try to see if there's something newer about this pair. | Sep 19 15:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Anyway, I'm leaving it aside for now. It's worth exploring later because Microsoft can fund self-serving studies in all sorts of ways. | Sep 19 15:47 |
|---|
| twitter | I don't know anything about CA but this looks like standard Slog to me. Pretend you have something great and you have already won, reward those who play ball, publish the results as independent and so on. | Sep 19 15:48 |
|---|
| twitter | Isn't java gpl now? | Sep 19 15:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes. | Sep 19 15:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They games some polls before. Let me find it. | Sep 19 15:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-... | Sep 19 15:49 |
|---|
| twitter | Given that, you would think people would dump .NET like the ugly shit it is. | Sep 19 15:49 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Here it is about Microsoft gaming a poll against Java: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/26/m... | Sep 19 15:50 |
|---|
| schestowitz | New: "[Microsoft] guerrilla marketing campaign at VMware's annual worldwide conference in Las Vegas." http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0... | Sep 19 15:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "Guerilla marketing campaigns, he said, were "what the follower does, not what the leader does". | Sep 19 15:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Another report said that he recgonised the slog tactics because he worked as a Microsoft exec | Sep 19 15:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “…cut off Netscape’s air supply.” | Sep 19 15:53 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “To combat NSCP we have to have [sic] position the browser as ‘going away’ and do deeper integration on Windows. The stronger way to communicate this is to have a ‘new release’ of Windows and make a big deal out of it. We will thus position Memphis as ‘Windows 98ââ¬Â².” | Sep 19 15:53 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “The major reason for this is: to combat [Netscape] we have to position the browser as “going away” and do deeper integration on Windows. The stronger way to communicate this is to have a “new release” of Windows and make a big deal out of it. We will thus position Memphis as “Windows 98. IE integration will be the most compelling feature of Memphis." | Sep 19 15:54 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “Number two is move Netscape out of the win32 client area.” | Sep 19 15:54 |
|---|
| twitter | CA seems to have a lot in common with M$ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wang | Sep 19 16:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Nothing about Microsoft in this page. I still read. | Sep 19 16:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "Wang is also well known for his philanthropic works with such causes as the Make a Wish Foundation, and Smile Train among others. His donation of over $50 million dollars to the State University of New York at Stony Brook for the construction of the Charles B. Wang Center was the largest in history to a SUNY school." | Sep 19 16:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/gov... | Sep 19 16:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Robber barons. You do the crime, you pay some PR money. | Sep 19 16:07 |
|---|
| twitter | Easy to do when you hand yourself a $670 million bonus. | Sep 19 16:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | 2003: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9... (Computer Associates Announces Layoffs) | Sep 19 16:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | 2001: http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18817439 (Layoffs At Computer Associates) | Sep 19 16:09 |
|---|
| twitter | The company seems to have been destroyed in the 90s. It would be sad if they were really reduced to .NET nasty. | Sep 19 16:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's not just Kumar: http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/aml... | Sep 19 16:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "Back in 2001, a Texas billionaire and conservative political activist named Sam Wyly launched a proxy contest at Computer Associates, attacking accounting practices at the Long Island software company. Soon thereafter, the already-embattled CA began its descent to near-death. Its infamous "35-day month" accounting--and the ensuing effort to hide that accounting from government investigators--led to the conviction of the company's | Sep 19 16:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | CEO, GC, and several other high-level executives." | Sep 19 16:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: Novell and Corel are dying (now in buybacks mentality) and they both degraded to .NET after submissive e deals with Microsoft. | Sep 19 16:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oh oh! | Sep 19 16:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Bloomberg: "CA Founder Wang `Personally Directed' Fraud, Ex-Chief Says" | Sep 19 16:12 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/12052219... "Former CA chairman Sanjay Kumar, from the prison cell where he is serving a 12-year term for his role in a massive accounting fraud scandal, pointed the finger at one-time boss and friend Charles Wang." | Sep 19 16:12 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient... | Sep 19 16:13 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://www.desktoplinux.com/ne... | Sep 19 16:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=9... | Sep 19 16:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They are so protective of their identity | Sep 19 16:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/08/... | Sep 19 16:31 |
|---|
| *libervisco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 19 16:35 |
| trmanco | have you seen the new slackware logo? | Sep 19 16:39 |
|---|
| trmanco | a lot of people don't like it | Sep 19 16:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I haven't seen it. | Sep 19 16:39 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.slac... | Sep 19 16:40 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://www.slackware.com/grfx/shared/logo.png | Sep 19 16:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This article really pissed me off, so I could help leaving a comment: http://blogs.itworldcanada.com/insights/2008/... | Sep 19 16:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's bad. | Sep 19 16:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | (the logo | Sep 19 16:41 |
|---|
| trmanco | yes | Sep 19 16:41 |
|---|
| trmanco | I read slackwars | Sep 19 16:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Here is Gates' pyramid scheme (it's partly his inde that he invests in): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10046277-16.html (Intellectual Ventures: A massive patent pyramid scheme?) | Sep 19 16:43 |
|---|
| trmanco | I see you left a comment :) | Sep 19 16:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I was angry. :-) | Sep 19 16:46 |
|---|
| trmanco | lol | Sep 19 16:46 |
|---|
| trmanco | :p | Sep 19 16:46 |
|---|
| schestowitz | How does one combat $billions of brainwash. My patents too were fool. They believe everything they read in the press. Recently I found the husband of the former head of the Gates Fundation [sic] planting stories in time magazine to glorify this fundation. | Sep 19 16:48 |
|---|
| trmanco | :| | Sep 19 16:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's a circular catch. A criminal criminally controls the press, which in turn tells the criminal's story. A lot of the economical depression that's cooking at the moment is caused by the same type of issue. It's all greed and corruption. Bear in mind that Microsoft might still be losing $billions and they attack those who dare to point this out. | Sep 19 16:51 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Mac fan defends convenience over freedom: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10046376-16.html surprise, surprise | Sep 19 16:53 |
|---|
| trmanco | what do you mean? | Sep 19 17:00 |
|---|
| trmanco | who is the Mac fan? | Sep 19 17:01 |
|---|
| *libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Asay. He hardly gives a s* about Freedom, yet he's a self-appointed "open source" figure. | Sep 19 17:02 |
|---|
| trmanco | oh ok, for moments I thought you were referring to Mark Shuttleworth | Sep 19 17:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Some guy is disputing me in a USENET thread, so I send a pointer to http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif | Sep 19 17:09 |
|---|
| trmanco | lol | Sep 19 17:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They harass Cisco at the moment. Cisco is among the loudest complainers about the patent system | Sep 19 17:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | That's about the man that Bill Gates is using (and funding) to rob the industry and game/abuse USPTO: http://techdirt.com/articles/2... | Sep 19 17:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "So what is new in this one? Well, less than a year after raising a $1 billion patent hoarding fund, he's out raising a new $2.5 billion fund. So it seems like he's good at getting press and raising money -- but not so much actually making money at this point (well, Myhrvold personally is doing fine, since the piece notes that he gets a 2% management fee, just like a VC)." | Sep 19 17:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "And that's where the saber rattling comes in. The article notes that Cisco and Verizon have paid up between $200 and $400 million as licensees -- though, to make it more confusing some of that is invested back into the fund for equity." | Sep 19 17:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I don't remember the figure for sure, trmanco. Maybe you can help me out here: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/09/... | Sep 19 17:26 |
|---|
| *_Doug (i=c17a2f92@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9246d21b786c86c6) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 17:30 |
| *trmanco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 19 17:31 |
| _Doug | ???? | Sep 19 17:31 |
|---|
| twitter | have you done a wrap up article Intellectual Ventures and it's M$ backing yet? Intellectual Vultures is a good name for them. | Sep 19 17:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Kroes vs Apple: http://www.itwire.com/conte... | Sep 19 17:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: I'll do another one tonight. Seen the one from yesterday yet? | Sep 19 17:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I've just put this in Digg to raise awareness of people who don't read BN: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_is... (4 Diggs in 18 minutes) | Sep 19 17:33 |
|---|
| _Doug | billg copies the Apple 'I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC"' .. | Sep 19 17:33 |
|---|
| _Doug | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/b... | Sep 19 17:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, seen that. There's more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/International_... | Sep 19 17:34 |
|---|
| *trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-236-155.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 17:36 |
| twitter | OK, I saw it. I did not remember the attack on Cisco. | Sep 19 17:37 |
|---|
| twitter | Here's an old run down on how XP sucks worse than 98 did. I ran into it cleaning my bookmarks. The original site is gone but archive.org has it http://web.archive.org/web/200509062... | Sep 19 17:38 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "November 15, 2002: Bruce Schneier recommends this article." | Sep 19 17:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | ""Why so many defects? The fact that Windows XP makes your computer dependent on Microsoft computers is bad not only because you lose control over your computer, but because Microsoft produces defective software and doesn't patch defects quickly. | Sep 19 17:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | OpenGL is Free software now: http://www.linux.com/feature/148339 | Sep 19 17:46 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: Can't you credit the author of things you claim not to have written? | Sep 19 17:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/sh... | Sep 19 17:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | He wants to be anonymous, benJIman. I asked him for an attribution permission but he declined. Are you here just to troll, benJIman? | Sep 19 17:49 |
|---|
| twitter | This is nice but I'm not sure I like Byfield's slobbering over it. Mesa and X.org seemed to work without OpenGL. | Sep 19 17:50 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: You didn't ask me whether you could credit me in your story. I didn't particularly want to be associated with boycottnovell either. | Sep 19 17:50 |
|---|
| _Doug | back in ten .. | Sep 19 17:50 |
|---|
| twitter | People don't need permission to quote each other, Benjie. | Sep 19 17:52 |
|---|
| twitter | If you don't want to contribute to Boycott Novell, why are you here? | Sep 19 17:53 |
|---|
| benJIman | twitter: The /topic says "Exploring the reality" not "Ignoring the reality" | Sep 19 17:53 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: they usually do (at that scale) and I was approached to publish this. | Sep 19 17:53 |
|---|
| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: test | Sep 19 17:54 |
| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: "Exploring the problems of the Novell/Microsoft patent deal" | Sep 19 17:55 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: you're off topic. Please be cautious. | Sep 19 17:55 |
|---|
| schestowitz | ;-) | Sep 19 17:55 |
|---|
| twitter | Reality is welcome, Benjie. | Sep 19 17:55 |
|---|
| twitter | Here's the FSF news release about OpenGL http://www.fsf.org/news/thank-you-... | Sep 19 17:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Reality, not spin. | Sep 19 17:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | We already have Ian Bruce and Ilk for the latter. | Sep 19 17:56 |
|---|
| twitter | Bruce was exaggerating 3d acceleration problems, licensing issues and commercial contributions. FSF is more to the point. | Sep 19 17:58 |
|---|
| schestowitz | All the pieces fall into place as FS: Java, OpenGL, OOo... | Sep 19 18:00 |
|---|
| *zak_ (n=zak_@196.203.243.225) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 18:01 |
| *zak_ (n=zak_@196.203.243.225) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Sep 19 18:01 |
| schestowitz | No Mono patches in KDE this week: http://commit-digest.org/i... | Sep 19 18:03 |
|---|
| *zak_ (n=zak_@196.203.243.225) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 18:12 |
| *zak_ (n=zak_@196.203.243.225) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Sep 19 18:12 |
| twitter | http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/212249 | Sep 19 18:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Cool. I'll link to it. | Sep 19 18:15 |
|---|
| _Doug | any news on what caused the LSE meltdown last mon ? | Sep 19 18:36 |
|---|
| _Doug | "London Stock Exchange Chooses Windows over Linux for Reliability" | Sep 19 18:37 |
|---|
| _Doug | http://windowsitpro.com/Common/adforceim... | Sep 19 18:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *LOL* Well, the latest says it's definitely a software issue. | Sep 19 18:38 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Those responsible refused to name the culprit. IOW, no-one is being blamed. | Sep 19 18:38 |
|---|
| _Doug | http://www.microsoft.com/uk/... | Sep 19 18:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Refs here also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a... | Sep 19 18:39 |
|---|
| *GraveDigger (i=grave@unaffiliated/gravedigger) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 18:41 |
| _Doug | agility 'cost of ownership' availability and performance .. | Sep 19 18:41 |
|---|
| GraveDigger | hi folks! | Sep 19 18:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Prosthetics are a wonderful thing and I'm all for sharing knowledge about it, but why do they abuse the "open source" term? http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/techno... | Sep 19 18:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Hi, GraveDigger. What's up? | Sep 19 18:41 |
|---|
| GraveDigger | nothing special, just wanted to read a bit in here | Sep 19 18:42 |
|---|
| pombat42 | wrt to the London SE outage it's obvious that they are very careful with the words they use. Developed with Microsoft technology for instance | Sep 19 18:44 |
|---|
| _Doug | "20% savings .. cost millions of euros nine months .. going forward with with the new system .. hundreds of thousands .. double the capacity we can do it literally over a weekend" | Sep 19 18:44 |
|---|
| _Doug | "A modern feat of computer software engineering" | Sep 19 18:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It turns out that I was wrong. | Sep 19 18:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I thought it was the SECOND downtime in less than a year, but I was wrong. I remembered wrong or missed one. | Sep 19 18:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It was down THREE days in less than a year. That's like, what...? Running a /stock market/ properly just 99% of the days? | Sep 19 18:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Our desktop uptime puts that to shame and here you talk about an LSE framework with huge and expensive /redundancies/ that handle the load poorly (Rex Ballard concurs) | Sep 19 18:46 |
|---|
| pombat42 | The redundancy is only effective if the software controlling it does the switching properly. | Sep 19 18:47 |
|---|
| _Doug | "is is true that .. puts Microsoft in the unenviable position of having two bad options to consider: accept that a high-profile IT system failure occured that either relied on Microsoft products or.. let the blame fall on the LSE staff managing the platform" | Sep 19 18:47 |
|---|
| _Doug | What was someone just saying about not pissing off your own customers ? | Sep 19 18:48 |
|---|
| pombat42 | Money will change hands and you know that the LSE staff will take the hit. | Sep 19 18:50 |
|---|
| _Doug | "Avanade .. A joint venture with Accenture and Microsoft " | Sep 19 18:53 |
|---|
| _Doug | http://www.avanade.com/ | Sep 19 18:53 |
|---|
| _Doug | train crashes, blane the conductors ... | Sep 19 18:54 |
|---|
| _Doug | : train crashes, blame the conductors ... | Sep 19 18:54 |
|---|
| _Doug | "Founded in 2000 as a joint venture between Accenture and Microsoft" | Sep 19 18:55 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Why don't they state the cause of the crash? | Sep 19 18:55 |
|---|
| _Doug | Is anyone going to be held accountable ? | Sep 19 18:55 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Didn't Furse get fired/quit? | Sep 19 18:55 |
|---|
| _Doug | Not some scapegoat .. some agile innovator .. !!! | Sep 19 18:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Maybe after 4 or 5 major downtimes they'll realise it's not working, but either way, won't someone complain to the ASA about Microsoft's false advertising? The uptime is a lie and the choice /over/ GNU/Linux is a lie also. | Sep 19 18:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "I have been amused by recent coverage of what is called “open source spying.” It turns out to be nothing more than trying to glean hints of what’s real using unclassified stuff on the Internet. Spooks act all excited about using the Google, but this has absolutely nothing to do with open source." | Sep 19 18:58 |
|---|
| _Doug | technically speaking, why would moving to dot.Net reduce latency | Sep 19 18:58 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not the first time he complains about the noise that I too am seeing in the "open source" feeds: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2906 | Sep 19 18:58 |
|---|
| *libervisco is now known as DanijelOrsolic | Sep 19 18:59 |
| *DanijelOrsolic is now known as libervisco | Sep 19 18:59 |
| _Doug | in the same video .. the camera panns over a screen that says "Novell Migration" .. :) | Sep 19 19:01 |
|---|
| _Doug | mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversyst em/facts/videos/LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv | Sep 19 19:01 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Is there a HTTP link? | Sep 19 19:01 |
|---|
| _Doug | http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/lse.mspx | Sep 19 19:02 |
|---|
| _Doug | The video link .. get it while you can ... | Sep 19 19:02 |
|---|
| _Doug | at 2:45 | Sep 19 19:02 |
|---|
| *trmanco_ (n=trmanco@bl8-225-168.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:03 |
| schestowitz | I can't view it. | Sep 19 19:04 |
|---|
| *GraveDigger (i=grave@unaffiliated/gravedigger) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:04 |
| _Doug | why not ? you are licensed to ? | Sep 19 19:04 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You see, I could do alright with the format because I have kaffeine, but Microsoft can't even make the bloody thing downloadable. Everything to make the user "uncomfortable" (as they said about DR-DOS) | Sep 19 19:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Can you make an ogg out of it and send me? | Sep 19 19:05 |
|---|
| _Doug | I'll try .. | Sep 19 19:06 |
|---|
| _Doug | download could not complete .. :( | Sep 19 19:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It drove my browser insane. I had to shut it down. | Sep 19 19:06 |
|---|
| *trmanco has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Sep 19 19:07 |
| *trmanco_ has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 19:07 |
| *trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-225-168.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:08 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, what did you mean with this? | Sep 19 19:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | After one browser mess (had to restart it), I gave up. | Sep 19 19:10 |
|---|
| trmanco | "<schestowitz> I don't remember the figure for sure, trmanco. Maybe you can help me out here: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/0..." | Sep 19 19:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Microsoft: 1; me: 0. They screw Internet users with those codecs and f* up URLs. | Sep 19 19:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They mix up some thing there, I think. | Sep 19 19:11 |
|---|
| trmanco | the kernel thing? | Sep 19 19:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes. They treat Linux like its one unit. | Sep 19 19:12 |
|---|
| *_Doug has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 19 19:14 |
| schestowitz | is someone here using Windows? | Sep 19 19:16 |
|---|
| trmanco | no way | Sep 19 19:16 |
|---|
| trmanco | I'm not going back to that thing | Sep 19 19:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | last thing Doug said was: "<_Doug> iexp1ore.exe is trying to hack this crapware .. :) <_Doug> grab it while you can view the source and see if you can wget it .. :) <_Doug> http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/lse.mspx" Well, I can't get it to work even with wget. It's a stream service. | Sep 19 19:17 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They force people to use spyware just to gain access to this advert. | Sep 19 19:17 |
|---|
| trmanco | :| | Sep 19 19:18 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I wouldn't mind it if it didn't mention Novell. Doug probably was at work using some Win32 box he's forced to use. | Sep 19 19:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman uses Microsoft Linux. Maybe he can access that file. :-) | Sep 19 19:20 |
|---|
| benJIman | What file? | Sep 19 19:20 |
|---|
| trmanco | Microsoft Linux? | Sep 19 19:20 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: The video linked on the lse page|? | Sep 19 19:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, please. | Sep 19 19:20 |
|---|
| benJIman | Slow server is slow. | Sep 19 19:21 |
|---|
| trmanco | totem says that I don't have permission to view the file :| | Sep 19 19:22 |
|---|
| benJIman | Grabbing it now. | Sep 19 19:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Of course. chmod windows-user ~file | Sep 19 19:22 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: You could do it yourself of course. | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell at 2min 45sec | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | I got | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | wget doesn't do mms | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | with wget | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | put http in the protocol | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: "mencoder mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversyst em/facts/videos/LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv -oac copy -ovc copy -o ./LSE_Casestudy.wmv" | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http won't do | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | it works :| | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | I have the stream | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | :D | Sep 19 19:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | the server is slow | Sep 19 19:24 |
|---|
| benJIman | It is. | Sep 19 19:24 |
|---|
| trmanco | it won't stop buffering :| | Sep 19 19:24 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Maybe it's served via the LSE. :-p | Sep 19 19:24 |
|---|
| trmanco | lol | Sep 19 19:24 |
|---|
| twitter | If you try to access that file by http, it returns a text file: | Sep 19 19:26 |
|---|
| trmanco | http in wget | Sep 19 19:26 |
|---|
| trmanco | it works here | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | [Reference] | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | Ref1=http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversystem/f... | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | Ref2=http://207.46.211.254:80/ms/windows... | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | 2nd does nothing. | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | 1st returns text file. | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | asses. | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | trmanco@trmanco-desktop:~/Desktop$ wget http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsse... | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | --20:25:42-- http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/wind... | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | => `LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv' | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | Resolving wm.microsoft.com... 207.46.211.254 | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | Connecting to wm.microsoft.com|207.46.211.254|:80... connected. | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| *kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 19 19:27 |
| trmanco | Length: 226 [video/x-ms-wvx] | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | 100%[====================================>] 226 --.--K/s | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| trmanco | 20:25:42 (20.72 MB/s) - `LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv' saved [226/226] | Sep 19 19:27 |
|---|
| twitter | try ls -lrth | Sep 19 19:28 |
|---|
| twitter | 226 bytes is text file | Sep 19 19:28 |
|---|
| twitter | asses | Sep 19 19:28 |
|---|
| trmanco | I some how got it to stream | Sep 19 19:28 |
|---|
| trmanco | it has the wmv extension | Sep 19 19:28 |
|---|
| twitter | did you actually see a video? | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | yes | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | i'm seeing it right now | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| twitter | was it worth seeing? | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | well | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | I'm not really sure | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | its always buffering | Sep 19 19:29 |
|---|
| trmanco | you can't see the hole video at once :| | Sep 19 19:30 |
|---|
| trmanco | It's nice to watch | Sep 19 19:30 |
|---|
| trmanco | a lot of lies go on the video | Sep 19 19:30 |
|---|
| *moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:30 |
| twitter | of course it's full of lies, the LSE flunked out. | Sep 19 19:31 |
|---|
| trmanco | If you wan't to see I'll host the file somewhere for you to download | Sep 19 19:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I want to see the Novell bit | Sep 19 19:31 |
|---|
| twitter | Here's a fun one, midsized business skips Vista, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/212173 | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I'm at 40% | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| twitter | Midsized represents most business. | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| twitter | ha ha | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| twitter | M$ had better hurry up with it's patent revenue. | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Wha!? They don't supersize with Ultimate at these times of prosperity? | Sep 19 19:32 |
|---|
| *kentma (n=user@host86-153-159-217.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:33 |
| schestowitz | That can't be good, can it? http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif | Sep 19 19:33 |
|---|
| twitter | Bad for M$, good for everyone else. | Sep 19 19:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, if the above is true, they can collapse their system along with everyone else. | Sep 19 19:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I read yesterday (after inquiry) that California's debt is $3 trillion, IIRC. | Sep 19 19:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Bill Gates is small peanuts compared to some of these people in UAE. | Sep 19 19:34 |
|---|
| twitter | Yes, but Bill reads their email. | Sep 19 19:35 |
|---|
| schestowitz | WTF? | Sep 19 19:36 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It finished at 2:11 | Sep 19 19:36 |
|---|
| schestowitz | (the video .. LSE_Casestudy.wmv ) | Sep 19 19:36 |
|---|
| twitter | I wonder if Uncle Sam will bail out M$ when it finally craters. | Sep 19 19:36 |
|---|
| trmanco | lol | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Maybe Exxon will borrow them some. | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| twitter | Their crashing stock price is going to sink a lot of Widows and orphans. | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Seriously now, we don't know any of this for sure, but with all the scandals around, we might find out soon (months/years) | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| twitter | Exxon/Mobile/Soft? | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell is already pretty much bust. | Sep 19 19:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's dangling by Microsoft's strings for survival for all I can gather. Corel is close to its EOL as well, I think. | Sep 19 19:38 |
|---|
| twitter | People with M$ stock have to be sore. It has yet to get back to it's pre bubble price from 10 years ago. | Sep 19 19:39 |
|---|
| twitter | That means it's worth half of what people bought it for. | Sep 19 19:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | zoobab: are you there? Can I use the EPO photos? | Sep 19 19:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: Microsoft buys its own stock now. So "people"=Microsoft | Sep 19 19:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Before Bishop quit he posted about it. Let me find it. | Sep 19 19:40 |
|---|
| twitter | It used to be widely held. | Sep 19 19:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Watrch the chart: http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif | Sep 19 19:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Holy moly. I found it quickly, so I suppose it's already a popular page | Sep 19 19:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.co... http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif | Sep 19 19:41 |
|---|
| twitter | chart ends in 1999 is it supposed to be an animated gif? | Sep 19 19:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | A month goes by and Todd quits his job after so many years of watching Microsoft. | Sep 19 19:41 |
|---|
| schestowitz | twitter: no, it has not been update since, no animation. That said, remember it's pre-bubble, so things can't have improved. | Sep 19 19:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/1y/m/msft http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mi... | Sep 19 19:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell is on buyback mode as well. The stock performs poorly. | Sep 19 19:43 |
|---|
| *_Doug (i=c17a2faa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e252531cc62efd20) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 19:49 |
| schestowitz | _Doug: I got the video, but it's only 2:11-'long' | Sep 19 19:55 |
|---|
| _Doug | ? | Sep 19 19:55 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Unless the download got cut | Sep 19 19:55 |
|---|
| _Doug | meybe .. I just popped in .. will try again tomorrow .. | Sep 19 19:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | What did did it say about Novell migration anywya? | Sep 19 19:56 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Never mind, it's unimportant. | Sep 19 19:57 |
|---|
| _Doug | It was panning across screens while the voice talked about tyhe benefits of the LSE moving to dotnet frame work .. and the screen listed options to migrate from Novell, ungrade from UNIX etc .. | Sep 19 19:58 |
|---|
| _Doug | It's funny considering their partnership with Novell .. | Sep 19 19:58 |
|---|
| _Doug | gtg | Sep 19 19:58 |
|---|
| *_Doug has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 19 19:58 |
| MinceR | ooh, apple is "innovating" again: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?... | Sep 19 20:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This reduces confidence in their patents. It might do more harm than good to Apple. | Sep 19 20:31 |
|---|
| MinceR | they deserve all the harm they can get | Sep 19 20:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Apple and Microsoft fight each other too, which can't be too bad. | Sep 19 20:35 |
|---|
| MinceR | they should fight each other in hell | Sep 19 20:37 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They do in the US. | Sep 19 20:38 |
|---|
| MinceR | well, that's pretty close, i guess. | Sep 19 20:42 |
|---|
| MinceR | unfortunately hungary is pretty close too. | Sep 19 20:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | To the vampires maybe. http://www.youtube.com/my_favorites# | Sep 19 20:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vywTMyQZ7oc | Sep 19 20:44 |
|---|
| *AVRS2 (n=AVRS2@wikimedia/AVRS) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 20:45 |
| *kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 19 20:53 |
| *kentma (n=user@host86-153-159-217.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 20:56 |
| *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 20:59 |
| *mib_p4m7wd (i=44e62112@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e46f726c96e426d6) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 21:10 |
| *mib_p4m7wd has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 19 21:12 |
| *kentma has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 19 21:44 |
| pombat42 | The video doesn't work in Ubuntu with Totem and all the codecs either. Who the heck does Microsoft expect to win over if not people running other platforms? | Sep 19 21:52 |
|---|
| pombat42 | IOW doesn't it make sense to allow Linux, Unix or OsX users to easily see what they (Microsoft) have to offer? | Sep 19 21:53 |
|---|
| schestowitz | People running other platform are already in greener pastures perhaps. They can only win over people who assume that computers crash and fall ill (viruses). | Sep 19 21:53 |
|---|
| pombat42 | Sadly people believe computers are supposed to crash. | Sep 19 21:54 |
|---|
| pombat42 | They all do but some are much better than others and Windows desktop systems are by far the worst. | Sep 19 21:54 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, they can... if you don't buy a UPS. | Sep 19 21:55 |
|---|
| pombat42 | Software isn't perfect and neither is hardware. It's getting closer to perfection. Rebooting a desktop system several times a day is insane though yet many Windows users think this is normal | Sep 19 22:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Well, without virtual desktops and heavy workloads, maybe it's no big deal. Anyway, KDE also restored sessions entirely. | Sep 19 22:06 |
|---|
| neighborlee | not that it really matters perse but..I think from his style of writing..that 'alternatealias' is jeffrey stedfast ..it all adds up now..maybe im wrong but it seems to make sense why he would be so vehemently oppose removoing mono etc. ;)..I bring up as that username on ubuntu forums was doing his best to make case for Mono. | Sep 19 22:09 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: Are you in favour of removing mono? | Sep 19 22:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It seems possible. | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| neighborlee | absolutely | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| neighborlee | its not necesssary | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Jeffrey has defended Mono more than anyone. | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | He also published an item against me, something along the lines of "debunking the schestowitz" in one post title | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| neighborlee | linux means choice,,,let uubntu give me the choice at install, not force it on me. | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: It is if you want to allow .net developers to write software for a Free platform. | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| neighborlee | huh ? | Sep 19 22:11 |
|---|
| schestowitz | But it's interesting what proof can be shown to prove that "Alternatie-ALIAS" is an alias of his. | Sep 19 22:12 |
|---|
| neighborlee | :) | Sep 19 22:12 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Judging by the description of the forum, there's a match, | Sep 19 22:12 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I caught it based on writing style..'looky here' , as I found that style here as well: http://jeffreystedfast.blogspot.com/2... | Sep 19 22:12 |
|---|
| schestowitz | neighborlee: you woke up SUSEJiman, so you must have hit a sensitive point. | Sep 19 22:12 |
|---|
| neighborlee | rofl | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: Some polls indicate that c# is used by even more developers than java now. I'm skeptical of that, but certainly a lot of people do use it. | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman: so what? | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| neighborlee | benJIman, oh ok ic your point | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | A lot of people east at McDonalds. | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Does it make the food there healthy? | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: Actually someone in another channel mentioned boycottnovell and I popped over to look at what you were discussing. | Sep 19 22:13 |
|---|
| neighborlee | benJIman, well,,,id love to rally behind oss but with M$'s track record and the pact with novel , and the actual ecma license ( err the promise ;)..) I see no reason to trust mono on any level | Sep 19 22:14 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: regardless of whether it's superior (I don't think it is), that's a massive developerbase who could contribute to free software. | Sep 19 22:14 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman: got proof? | Sep 19 22:14 |
|---|
| schestowitz | All I see is a slog. | Sep 19 22:14 |
|---|
| benJIman | 23:09:10 < zx64> Does Boycott Novell have the slogan "No Way, No How, Novell"? | Sep 19 22:14 |
|---|
| neighborlee | since when did size matter ? <grins> | Sep 19 22:15 |
|---|
| schestowitz | As pointed out earlier, a corruption-riddled CA might be rubbing Microsoft's back. | Sep 19 22:15 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: Proof of what now? | Sep 19 22:15 |
|---|
| schestowitz | .NETification. | Sep 19 22:15 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not that it's relevant | Sep 19 22:15 |
|---|
| neighborlee | no shame in supporting good change ;) | Sep 19 22:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Even if it ever become ubiquitous, that would be even /MORE/ of a reason to avoid it. | Sep 19 22:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Don't play as a follower or you'll always be a second-class citizen. | Sep 19 22:16 |
|---|
| schestowitz | As Dana Blankenhorn puts it, "Lead pony". | Sep 19 22:17 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: .netification of what? I've seen statistics varying from 10% to about 60% of businesses using .net for business software development. A lot of people using .net whichever end of that the figure actually lies. | Sep 19 22:17 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Get them off it. | Sep 19 22:18 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not with Wine... and cigarettes. | Sep 19 22:18 |
|---|
| benJIman | lol | Sep 19 22:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You can't substitute something with second best. | Sep 19 22:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If you take them down the route of cheap imitations (Mono), they'll be disappointed. | Sep 19 22:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | IE on Linux... Chrome on CrossOver... | Sep 19 22:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | we're all on the same team here, or we're supposed to be...oss willl someday be the beacon we all hang our hearts on...if only M$ had a track record of supporting it with no strings attached ( OOXML, adnosium<) I'd be fine with mono..but we're not there are we ;) | Sep 19 22:20 |
|---|
| benJIman | No-one's forcing you to use it. | Sep 19 22:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not to mention that running thing on Mono for them could be a legal time bomb. | Sep 19 22:20 |
|---|
| benJIman | I think it's a great thing that .net developers can write software for linux. | Sep 19 22:20 |
|---|
| neighborlee | benJIman, actuallly, ubuntu is | Sep 19 22:20 |
|---|
| neighborlee | which is wrong. | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| benJIman | No they're not. | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman: they shove this Novell excertment in distros. | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| benJIman | You can easily remove it. | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| neighborlee | its insalled out of the box | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| benJIman | excertment? | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| neighborlee | so I have to remove it..why cant it be a option at 'install time' ?? | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: Oh no :o | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| neighborlee | linux=choice ;) | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: Because asking about every package at install time is a great idea. | Sep 19 22:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman: this is no 'package' | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's no ordinary package. | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| benJIman | You can remove mono-core and everything goes. | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | In fact, Novell and Microsoft pollute not just with Mono. | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| neighborlee | benJIman, the same arguement can be made, to give users a 'choice' at install time whether o r not to have it | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| benJIman | There's this handy system of package management with automatic dependency management. | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| neighborlee | and that option is more democratic :)) | Sep 19 22:22 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: And means nothing to most users. | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | then leave mono out ;) | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| benJIman | You will just put people off. | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| benJIman | Why? | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| benJIman | It's free software. | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | not | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | ecma is not | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | its a 'promose' | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | promise | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| benJIman | Most of the world does not live in the US so there is not even a threat. | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | the movel pact, made that worthless | Sep 19 22:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | ..novel | Sep 19 22:24 |
|---|
| benJIman | If you think that Mono is the only thing infringing patents in Ubuntu I think you are deluding yourself. | Sep 19 22:24 |
|---|
| neighborlee | name one | Sep 19 22:24 |
|---|
| benJIman | One what? | Sep 19 22:24 |
|---|
| neighborlee | infringement | Sep 19 22:24 |
|---|
| benJIman | It's pretty much impossible to write any nontrivial software without infringing software patents, IBM have some on trivial programming concepts for example. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Novell is selfish. It sells IP peace of mind, remember? | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| benJIman | Microsoft even have one on pageup/pagedown granted recently. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | In other words, it tells you to be scared and buy protection from it. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Microsoft also adds that Mono is just for Novell. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Put 2 and 2 together. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| benJIman | Not to mention one on software doing a different thing when a hardware device is double clicked vs single clicked. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| neighborlee | benJIman, and ibm isn't a convicted monopolist | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | benJIman: itrrelevent. Some patents stand no chance in court. | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| benJIman | neighborlee: What has that got to do with whether or not their patents are infringed? | Sep 19 22:25 |
|---|
| *moparx has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Sep 19 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Mono is a CLONE, not a patent infringement. | Sep 19 22:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Watch the agreement with Novell. See under "clone products" | Sep 19 22:26 |
|---|
| neighborlee | well im just reiterating seth@gnome.org's claims and it makes sense..the mono ecma standardization is just a promise, which novel pact with M$ broke. | Sep 19 22:27 |
|---|
| benJIman | And? | Sep 19 22:27 |
|---|
| benJIman | ECMA standardisation is fairly irrelevant anyway, many parts of mono are not covered. | Sep 19 22:27 |
|---|
| benJIman | A lot of free software is clones of proprietary software, I'm not going to boycott it. | Sep 19 22:28 |
|---|
| *moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 19 22:28 |
| neighborlee | It is nothing more than a farce, and coming from liars like those at Microsoft ("Red Hat customers owe us money"), isn't worth the paper it's written on. | Sep 19 22:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I am working on a post at the moment. | Sep 19 22:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It shall explain to benJIman and other OpenSUSErs that are in denial that Microsoft intends to sue and to troll by proxy. | Sep 19 22:33 |
|---|
| benJIman | lol | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's funny that they have that deal with Novell because it doesn't pretend Microsoft from suing Novell and customer via their procies. | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Which they may have done already (Oct. 2007) | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| benJIman | The deal doesn't prevent them from suing Novell anyway. | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | True. In other words, it's useless. | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | As the FSD called it, "worse than useless" | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *FSF | Sep 19 22:34 |
|---|
| schestowitz | ...Just an excuse to kick off a little collusion and screw Ubuntu, Red hat, Mandriva... | Sep 19 22:35 |
|---|
| benJIman | schestowitz: The patent covenant is useless yes. | Sep 19 22:41 |
|---|
| benJIman | I might even go as far as worse than useless. | Sep 19 22:41 |
|---|
| *MinceR waits for the point where logic will break. | Sep 19 22:46 |
| *trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)") | Sep 19 23:04 |
Comments
Dan O'Brian
2008-09-20 16:33:29
Roy Schestowitz
2008-09-20 16:36:29
Who is "we"?
Dan O'Brian
2008-09-20 16:48:06
You need not know more than that.
Roy Schestowitz
2008-09-20 17:16:00
AlexH, by the way, is forking Novell software (Hula).
Dan O'Brian
2008-09-20 17:56:25
Nor does AlexH's, as near as I can tell. If memory serves, he works on the Bongo project which is a Free Software fork of Hula (which used to be a Novell product before they dropped it) and I'm unaware of any ties to Mono.
The success of the Bongo project is in no way tied to the success or failure of Novell nor Mono afaict.
What is his "vested interest"?
Dan O'Brian
2008-09-20 18:10:08
Roy Schestowitz
2008-09-20 18:18:33
Who is Defending Mono Anyway?
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2008-05-16-014-26-NW-DT-NV-0004 http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/08/04/how-to-remove-mono-m-from-ubuntu-hardy-heron/ To understand that you don't defend Mono for personal gain, I will need something more concrete. You spend a lot of time in sites you don't like.
Dan O'Brian
2008-09-20 18:30:58
The position we'd like to hire Mr. Steadfast for is unrelated to Mono.