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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 25th, 2008

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twitterhi hoOct 25 01:23
schestowitzComing tomorrow: Microsoft's 'reality check' financial report.Oct 25 01:24
twitterI think I'll write a summary of the case against Novell.  Sort of an introduction.  It should not be too hard because all the work has already been done.Oct 25 01:25
schestowitzPlease do.Oct 25 01:25
schestowitzSome people ask for it... even in Linux.comOct 25 01:25
twitterGive me a day or two and I'll have it.Oct 25 01:25
schestowitzAlthough books are a thing of the past, a book could be composed about it too.Oct 25 01:26
twitterWe can bounce it back and forth, get it nice and concise.Oct 25 01:26
schestowitzI already have summaries.Oct 25 01:26
schestowitzNot up to date though...Oct 25 01:26
twitterSure, I'll look around and string them into a quickie.  Something to frame M$'s pervasive influence and behavior and how that is all exhibited in the Novell deal.Oct 25 01:28
schestowitzPeople don't read though.Oct 25 01:28
schestowitzThey view pictures and big fonts.Oct 25 01:28
twitterThat's why I'll make it short, using lots of links.  I don't have to explain why software patents suck because RMS has done it very well.Oct 25 01:29
twitterThe most important parts come from M$ and Novell executives.  Their own words reveal what they are doing.Oct 25 01:30
schestowitzYesOct 25 01:30
schestowitzPeace of mind.Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz"They have obligation to compensate us"Oct 25 01:30
twitterThere's a whole string of lies that goes into non free software.  The obligation to compensate is one M$ tells others.  Internally, they know they exist through ownership and force.Oct 25 01:32
twitterThey have destroyed other people's works again and again.Oct 25 01:34
schestowitzOLPCOct 25 01:34
twitterNetscapeOct 25 01:34
twitterCorrellOct 25 01:34
twitterWord Perfect's various ownersOct 25 01:34
twitterDigital ResearchOct 25 01:35
twitterDOS Backup companies.Oct 25 01:35
schestowitzYes, I think it's all in Wikipedia.Oct 25 01:35
schestowitzAlso 'Old' Novell.Oct 25 01:35
twitterSanta Cruz OperationOct 25 01:35
twitterSunOct 25 01:35
twitterall proprietary UnixOct 25 01:36
schestowitzNot AIX.Oct 25 01:36
schestowitzor HPUXOct 25 01:36
twitteryetOct 25 01:36
twitterThey are happy to let GNU/Linux eat away at them.Oct 25 01:37
twitterIf they could, they would own GNU/Linux.Oct 25 01:37
schestowitzYou can't own iot.Oct 25 01:38
schestowitzWith patents, however, they hope to make pet Linux/es and own *that*...Oct 25 01:38
schestowitz...in the 'intellectual' sense of courseOct 25 01:38
twitterThey hope to tax it anyway they can.Oct 25 01:38
twitterBeing able to charge everyone for software you did not write is as good as owning it.Oct 25 01:39
schestowitzThis has two effects.Oct 25 01:39
twitterThe SCO case was about claiming ownership and smearing free software.Oct 25 01:39
twitterThe Novell deal is about claiming ownership.Oct 25 01:39
schestowitzA point that I try to get across is this: They win because: 1) Linux gets expensive, i.e. less attractive; 2) Microsoft makes money also when the rival makes sales.Oct 25 01:40
twitterThey keep telling the same lie again and again.Oct 25 01:40
schestowitzNovell is also about APIsOct 25 01:40
twitterWhat does Novell have that's special?Oct 25 01:40
schestowitzIf the world chooses Java and ODF, then Microsoft can use Novell to push patches for OOXML and build/rebuild Linux with the Microsoft API (patent-burdened)Oct 25 01:40
schestowitzNovell? Nothing.Oct 25 01:41
schestowitzThey have S.u.S.E., which was special.Oct 25 01:41
twitterI don't see what advantage OOXML and other M$ patented things would be in Novell if everyone else was using ODF and Java.Oct 25 01:42
twitterUltimately M$ has to claim ownership to basic operations that everyone else needs or they lose.Oct 25 01:43
twitterNovell has pretended that there is something like that M$ has.Oct 25 01:44
schestowitzTo Novell, it's about keeping a rope for moneyOct 25 01:44
schestowitzNovell earns nothing practical from this.. just bribes to carry on doing damage to ODF and open technologies.Oct 25 01:44
schestowitzThe dangerous pretense at Novell is that it has an upper hand over Microsoft.Oct 25 01:45
schestowitzOne version of the story (from Novell) is that Novell is scared of Novell patents. Another is that Novell is paid /by/ Microsoft for its sales. Another is that Microsoft 'surrendered' to Novell and that it's a 'win for Linux'Oct 25 01:46
twitterYes, they have foolishly contradicted themselves.Oct 25 01:46
schestowitzI wanted to think it was a win for Linux in November 2nd-3rd 2006. Then I read Bruce Perens' analysis, about patents and all...Oct 25 01:46
twitterThe M$ and Novell stories don't jibe.  It should be easy to put them up next to each other.Oct 25 01:47
schestowitzIt's disinformation. That's the danger.Oct 25 01:47
twitterLike I said, give me a couple of days to work on it.Oct 25 01:48
schestowitzGNOct 25 01:50
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schestowitzhttp://lxer.com/module/forums/t/27981/ "The late, lamented US magazine "Brill's Content" had a big article on Microsoft's policies and actions regarding reporters."Oct 25 08:34
schestowitz"Too bad that isn't on-line anymore. Made my hair curl. In the late 90s, MSFT and Wagg-Ed had a huge dossier on apparently every reporter in the computer news biz. And they actively courted them."Oct 25 08:34
schestowitz"This sort of thing, in combination with the fairly-well documented astroturfing that MSFT does, and the perhaps more arguable and murkier shilling, makes it a bit difficult to *not* feel paranoid about MSFT. After all, they've had as much as $40 BILLION in cash reserves."Oct 25 08:34
schestowitzExpect more zombies (compromised without intervention): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/24... - Trojan attacks Microsoft's emergency patch vuln Oct 25 08:38
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schestowitzMicrosoft's security headache and more baloney to hide corruption < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1... > "Greenspan, Cox tell Congress that bad data hurt Wall Street's computer models: Insufficient and faulty data used in risk management models contributed to the financial mess embroiling the U.S. and rippling across the globe, said former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan."Oct 25 12:23
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_Dougvotes recorded incorrectly because of alignment error ..Oct 25 14:30
_Doughttp://news.slashdot.org/news/08/1...Oct 25 14:31
_Doug1 + 1 = 2 .. how difficult is it to program that correctly ?Oct 25 14:31
schestowitz:-)Oct 25 14:32
schestowitzIf it's a close race, then this could get ugly.Oct 25 14:32
_Dougno papere trail ?Oct 25 14:32
schestowitzThere should be.Oct 25 14:32
schestowitzPeople have talked about these issues for over a year. Were lessons leaned?Oct 25 14:33
_Dougor at least a write once medium ..Oct 25 14:33
_Dougthe efficiency of the market :)Oct 25 14:33
schestowitzYou see, aoscial engineering I can understand...Oct 25 14:33
schestowitzLike of the system allowed through loopholes for people to vote twice under different identities.Oct 25 14:34
schestowitzBut to just digitally count votes on a machines? C'mon.Oct 25 14:34
_DougA polymer/semiconductor write-once read-many-times memory ..Oct 25 14:34
_Doughttp://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=a...Oct 25 14:34
schestowitzDisablement by design.Oct 25 14:35
schestowitzLike old CD-ROM (R-only)Oct 25 14:35
_DougSCO litigation PLC to rise from the dead ..Oct 25 14:38
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article.ph...Oct 25 14:38
*schestowitz looksOct 25 14:45
schestowitzOh, *that*Oct 25 14:45
schestowitzI was more fascinated by Intel's SCO lifeline.Oct 25 14:45
_DougThe CPA strikes again ..Oct 25 14:45
_Doughttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_pol...Oct 25 14:45
schestowitzDo SCO run their garbage on Intel servers at all?Oct 25 14:45
_Doughttp://www.c2000.com/fun/gatespie.htmOct 25 14:45
schestowitzCute. What did he do?Oct 25 14:46
schestowitzPhil Woolas... let's see...Oct 25 14:46
schestowitz"The No Borders group, which campaigns against immigration controls, were angered by Mr Woolas' recent remarks, in which he said the government would not allow the UK's population to rise as high as 70 million."Oct 25 14:47
_DougWe cannot collect uptime data for SCO UNIX. FAQ.Oct 25 14:47
_Doughttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?sit...Oct 25 14:47
schestowitzMaybe they still run GNU/Linux?Oct 25 14:47
schestowitzWow. Their homepage is PageRank 4 now.Oct 25 14:47
schestowitzIt's like they are some startuo.Oct 25 14:48
schestowitzWell, they don't use Windows.Oct 25 14:49
schestowitzThe site is case-sensitive.Oct 25 14:49
schestowitzhttp://www.sco.com/scosource/gnu_license.htmlOct 25 14:49
_Dougot: Mandelson .. the next Bond villian ?Oct 25 14:52
_Doughttp://uk.reuters.com/article/domest...Oct 25 14:52
schestowitzThere's a pie pic of BillG in microsoft.com also: http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?im...Oct 25 14:53
schestowitzhttps://secure.gn.apc.org/members/www.bild...Oct 25 14:54
schestowitz"Oct 25 14:54
schestowitzBilderberg member and recently appointed UK Business Secretary Peter Mandelson argued last week that new global solutions are needed because "the machinery of global economic governance barely exists"-, adding: "It is time for a Bretton Woods for this century,"- reports the Telegraph, noting that "Opinion is now hardening around the case for a new global architecture to enforce rules that ensure lessons are learnt."- "Oct 25 14:54
_Douga new world order .. a global government .. run by and on behalf of the multi-nationals ..Oct 25 14:55
schestowitzWell, I don't know about it.Oct 25 14:56
_Dougwoudn't be a half-bad idea ?Oct 25 14:56
schestowitzA friend of mine reckons that the current economic climate will be used to justify a global currency.Oct 25 14:56
_Dougno - they need differing currencies to trade in and make a profit ..Oct 25 14:56
_Dougas well as regions of differing GDP ..Oct 25 14:57
schestowitzThat too. There's little commission that way.Oct 25 14:57
_Dougit strikes me that market capitalism acts as if there was an infinite amount of resourcesOct 25 14:58
_Dougand we're just about to run out ..Oct 25 14:58
_Dougexample:Oct 25 14:58
_DougThere are areas of the Amazon cleared to grow corn to feed to chickens here in the UK, so as we can have corn fed chicken, all year round ..Oct 25 14:59
schestowitzCap-it-alizeOct 25 14:59
schestowitzNo Cap.Oct 25 14:59
_DougThe waste in resources to achieve this must be huge ..Oct 25 14:59
schestowitzThis is related to environmental issues, of course.Oct 25 14:59
schestowitzI still think that birth control is needed to prevent wars over water and food.Oct 25 15:00
_DougAll so as I can year round out-of-season foods in Sainsburys .Oct 25 15:00
schestowitzYes.Oct 25 15:00
schestowitzSometimes Spain though.Oct 25 15:00
schestowitzThey won't grow pineapple in the UK, will they? ;-)Oct 25 15:01
_Dougflying in exotic foods from Thailand - FLYING !!Oct 25 15:01
schestowitzSugar... coffee...Oct 25 15:01
schestowitzWell, _Doug, chicken can fly.Oct 25 15:01
twitter"Insufficient and faulty data used in risk management models"  Software == Scapegoat.Oct 25 15:01
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_Doughttp://www.psfk.com/2008/05/ramsay-...Oct 25 15:02
_Dougtwitter: ? wha ?Oct 25 15:02
schestowitzWe'll live. :-)Oct 25 15:02
schestowitzThat's peanuts, not fruit.Oct 25 15:02
schestowitz_Doug: he replies to something I wrote before you came.Oct 25 15:02
_Dougonly with a parachute  :)Oct 25 15:02
schestowitzschestowitz> Microsoft's security headache and more baloney to hide corruption < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1... > "Greenspan, Cox tell Congress that bad data hurt Wall Street's computer models: Insufficient and faulty data used in risk management models contributed to the financial mess embroiling the U.S. and rippling across the globe, said former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan."Oct 25 15:03
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schestowitz“Fruit and veg should be seasonal,” he said. “Chefs should be fined if they haven’t got ingredients in season on their menu. I don’t want to see asparagus on in the middle of December. I don’t want to see strawberries from Kenya in the middle of March. I want to see it home grown.”Oct 25 15:03
schestowitzFinally. /boundaries/.Oct 25 15:04
_DougThe Black Scholes equation .. a three card trick .. in my portfolio .. I have nothing of value at all :)Oct 25 15:04
twitter"Trojan attacks Microsoft's emergency patch vuln"  Like I said, people can auto generate exploits based on the patches.  Every script kiddie will use it and they will get there before M$ can roll the patch out to everyone.  Centralization, FAIL.Oct 25 15:04
schestowitzThey should tell Windows users to maybe shut down their machines or work without a connection for a while. Even strong firewalls won't do in this case.Oct 25 15:06
twitterYeah, I'm catching up.  Greenspan was blaming computer models.  Garbage in Garbage out.  The people running the models certainly knew what they were doing and should not blame computers for their greed.Oct 25 15:06
_DougWhat's amazing is that MS has made 'viruses' normal ..Oct 25 15:06
schestowitzI had a machine port-scan me this morning.Oct 25 15:07
twitterPeople should never use Windoze.Oct 25 15:07
schestowitzService: 8786, UDP..Oct 25 15:07
schestowitzThe "Big Machines" (think Bush) maybe had a virus, so they miscalculated the models.Oct 25 15:08
twitterThere are only a few niches where you really need it.  Everyone else should be moving away as fast as they can.Oct 25 15:08
_DougI get it all the time .. from compromised machines in JP or south america .. testing old windows exploits ..Oct 25 15:08
twitterI'm interested on the late 90's WE reporter dossiers.  Recently, a reporter was handed his file by mistake and was upset to see how he had been manipulated.Oct 25 15:12
twitterIt's hard to find references to either event.Oct 25 15:13
schestowitztwitter: Was it Dan Rather?Oct 25 15:14
schestowitzMary Jo knows about it... whoever it was, she spoke to him and I have the reference at hand somewhere in BN.Oct 25 15:14
twittergot one http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...Oct 25 15:15
schestowitzAh. Dan Gilmore.Oct 25 15:18
schestowitzI'm doing a series about his interviews... posted the first one in BN earlier...  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/25/mo... (at the bottom)Oct 25 15:19
schestowitzIt comes in about 20 parts, which I enjoy watching and I have lined up for the next groupings of linkls.Oct 25 15:20
schestowitzIn this part < http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv... > he explains why he doesn't like Microsoft's practices and he also say that China probably collaborates with Microsoft to bake in surveillance into Windows.Oct 25 15:20
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_Dougwhat just happened ?Oct 25 15:27
schestowitzYou dropped offlineOct 25 15:28
_Dougme no .. everyone dropped off and re-joined ...Oct 25 15:31
schestowitzJust you then.Oct 25 15:33
twitter Fred VogelsteinOct 25 15:34
schestowitzOr maybe a few others (nothing seen here other than you dropped for a minute).Oct 25 15:34
schestowitzWho's that, twitter?Oct 25 15:34
twitterThat's who got sent his file.Oct 25 15:34
twitter March 27, 2007Oct 25 15:34
schestowitzWhat's the URL?Oct 25 15:34
schestowitzIt's worth kicking around again now that people forgot all about it.Oct 25 15:34
twitterhttp://blog.wired.com/business/200...Oct 25 15:35
_DougDotHill patents mirrored posted-write RAID system ..Oct 25 15:35
_Doughttp://www.datastorageconnection.com/article.mvc...Oct 25 15:35
twitterThat's not something from the late 90'sOct 25 15:35
schestowitzWhen it's brought up, the Munckins say that "everyone is doing it"Oct 25 15:35
schestowitzIt's the "they are equally evil"-type defence.Oct 25 15:35
twitterEveryone they know, sure.Oct 25 15:35
twitterFuckers.Oct 25 15:35
schestowitz*sleep* Language advosory.Oct 25 15:36
schestowitz"Hey AC - You probably ought to read the post more carefully before you drop into attack dog mode. It addresses both issues you have. ... Posted by: Fred Vogelstein | Mar 29, 2007 12:35:55 PM"Oct 25 15:36
_DougQualcomm sued over procuring patents ..Oct 25 15:37
_Doughttp://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/20081...Oct 25 15:37
twitterTrolls lie in your face.  It wastes your time and they can claim "the community" debunked you in your face.Oct 25 15:37
schestowitzWatch the number  of spam comments.Oct 25 15:38
schestowitz"Waggener Edstrom President Frank Shaw's post on the Wired story and on the memo is up."Oct 25 15:39
_DougKlausner Technologies patents visual voicemail ..Oct 25 15:39
_Doughttp://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/200...Oct 25 15:39
schestowitzSpies. Waggener Edstrom President Frank Shaw's post on the Wired story and on the memo is up.Oct 25 15:40
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/wired/archiv...Oct 25 15:40
schestowitzCould I post this as text? I assume no copyrights on that..Oct 25 15:40
-_Doug-DCC Chat ()Oct 25 15:47
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from _DougOct 25 15:47
*DCC CHAT to _Doug aborted.Oct 25 15:47
_Dougping schestowitz ..Oct 25 15:47
schestowitzI don't know how to handle DDCOct 25 15:47
-_Doug-DCC Chat ()Oct 25 15:48
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from _DougOct 25 15:48
_Dougchat ..Oct 25 15:48
schestowitzWon't work.Oct 25 15:48
*DCC CHAT to _Doug aborted.Oct 25 15:48
twitterWhat is DDC and where do you find it?Oct 25 15:49
_Dougis an option in Mirc to send files .. ?Oct 25 15:51
schestowitzWhich file is it?Oct 25 15:52
_Dougnot a file .. trying to do a private chat .. check your email ..Oct 25 15:52
twitterWhat is the Eula.txt you are trying to send me?Oct 25 15:54
schestowitzThanks.Oct 25 15:54
schestowitzEither way, I was hoping for the raw leaked documentOct 25 15:54
schestowitzThe one in Wired is edited by them, so it's original work, I guess.Oct 25 15:55
twitter_Doug, It is not working, so I'm going to kill the transfer.Oct 25 15:55
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie... - 5 results.Oct 25 15:55
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schestowitzThere is also ma John Gilmore.Oct 25 15:56
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?st... "point is, that John Gilmore had almost definitely been exposed to Unix source code at that time."Oct 25 15:56
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?st... "Dan Gilmore puts it bluntly:"Oct 25 15:57
_Dougtwitter: just a test .. you did ask what DDC was for .. for sending people viruses I think .. not that I am attempting to :)Oct 25 15:58
schestowitz""That doesn't excuse the DDOS, but it does say something about SCO's credibility, not for the first time. SCO and its senior executives have shown themselves to be willing to stretch, if not snap, the truth -- such as Darl McBride's ridiculously inaccurate meanderings about copyright law, as Larry Lessig has picked apart in some detail."Oct 25 15:58
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twitterWow, that was nasty.Oct 25 15:59
twitterWTF?Oct 25 15:59
_DougI do recall seeing the original somewhere .. in the COMES v Microsoft docs or on Groklaw ?Oct 25 15:59
_Dougtwitter: is a little joke .. never accept files from strangers ..Oct 25 15:59
twitterI'm not laughing.Oct 25 15:59
_Dougyou're not using windows are you ?Oct 25 16:00
twitterYou know exactly what I'm using.Oct 25 16:00
twitterTell me some more.Oct 25 16:00
_DougI tried to do a private chat with Schozwitz .. that's all ..Oct 25 16:01
twitterYou sent me something labeled Eula.txt that crashed my gaim session.Oct 25 16:02
twitterWhy don't you gloat about what it did.Oct 25 16:02
_Dougsorry: you did ask what DCC was for .. just did a demo .. it's a text file on this here computer ..Oct 25 16:03
twittersure, I never saw the first byte.Oct 25 16:03
schestowitzNever sign a Yoola.Oct 25 16:04
twitterI never see them.Oct 25 16:04
_Doug"SYSINTERNALS SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS .."Oct 25 16:04
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schestowitzIsn't it owned by the Vole now? They bought them out.Oct 25 16:09
schestowitzAnd recently I discovered that they are responsible for some of the Big Lies about Linux (the "MINIX fork" thing).Oct 25 16:09
twitterWell _Doug, I'll never take another file from you and think you should be booted for your "joke"Oct 25 16:09
schestowitzNovell seems angry? "Did you, you know, bother to contact Novell for comment, or just feel that it was appropriate to highlight an attack site against the company without giving anyone at the company the opportunity to respond?" < http://www.linux.com/feature/151215#commentthis >Oct 25 16:10
schestowitzThe term "attack site" seems to have originated from Microsoft Munchkins, but maybe it's just a generic term.Oct 25 16:11
_Dougtwitter: it's a plain text file ..Oct 25 16:11
twitterThe Munchinks always portray themselves as victims.Oct 25 16:11
schestowitzbrbOct 25 16:12
_Dougtwitter: you try and send me a file ..Oct 25 16:12
_Dougtwitter: are you using Gaim for this chat ?Oct 25 16:15
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twitter:)Oct 25 16:27
_Doug"Fred has been asking repeated questions about whether other executives were involved to give the green light on these projects, in particular Brad Smith from a legal review. We have said all along that no such conversations took place"Oct 25 16:29
twitterFred who?  I missed a little thanks to a "joke"Oct 25 16:32
_Doughttp://www.wired.com/wired/archive/...Oct 25 16:33
schestowitzI've just linked to the PDF and blog post from this new one: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1...Oct 25 16:37
schestowitzI relate this to Maureen O'Gara, who loves to slam RMS and cover Novell stuff positively. She was with W.E.Oct 25 16:37
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schestowitzI'm off for a couple of hours (gym)Oct 25 16:40
_Dougahh back again ..Oct 25 16:40
_Dougok .. see ya tomorrow ..Oct 25 16:41
trmancohttp://labs.google.com/inquotes/Oct 25 16:41
schestowitzBruce: "Yes, in the past I have attacked Boycott Novell because of what I perceived as attempts to attack me."Oct 25 16:41
_Dougdid you notice everyone droppong off ?Oct 25 16:41
schestowitzThey caught him for his history against meOct 25 16:41
_Dougtwitter: DCC send is blocked here by the filewall .. can't send any files by IRC .. therefore I didn't crash your Gasim session ..Oct 25 16:42
twitterBB?Oct 25 16:43
twitternever mind, go to the gym.  I'm looking more into this Channel 9 farce.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chan...)Oct 25 16:44
twitter" Channel 9's intention was created by a group of Microsoft employees to provide unfiltered access to the development teams outside of the control of marketing and PR. "Oct 25 16:44
twitterNow I understand why Fred thought getting his dossier was intentional.Oct 25 16:45
twitterand how damaging such manipulation was in connection with Channel 9.Oct 25 16:45
_Dougif only they expended as much effort on fixing the code ..Oct 25 16:46
twitter" Channel 9 is not a marketing tool, not a PR tool, not a lead generation tool."  LOLOct 25 16:46
twitterBN is all about keeping the bastards from breaking other people's code.Oct 25 16:49
twittertheir crappy code is defective by design.Oct 25 16:50
_Doug"the Protocol Freedom Information Foundation, a non-profit organization created by the Software Freedom Law Center and Microsoft"Oct 25 16:50
_Doug:)Oct 25 16:50
_Doughttp://port25.technet.com/archiv...Oct 25 16:50
_Dougit's like when the refer to the peoples democratic republic .. really meaning the dictators undemocratic dictatorship :)Oct 25 16:51
twitterM$ could be cooperative but they won't be.  They invent protocols and formats instead of using better free ones.Oct 25 16:57
_Dougpollute the protocols ..Oct 25 16:58
*twitter (n=willhill@ip24-250-67-51.br.br.cox.net) has left #boycottnovellOct 25 16:58
schestowitzPeter galli.Oct 25 16:58
schestowitzThe shill is in the house.Oct 25 16:58
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/200...Oct 25 16:59
schestowitzNow they'll say I just 'attack' things.Oct 25 16:59
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/...Oct 25 16:59
schestowitzhttp://port25.technet.com/m... :  Member since:   10-02-2008Oct 25 17:00
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 25 17:01
schestowitzBBLOct 25 17:01
PetoKrausbbOct 25 17:01
_DougMicrosoft to buy the NBA ?Oct 25 17:05
_Doughttp://www.thenewstribune.com/sp...Oct 25 17:05
_DougDaniel Lyons: Why Is Jerry Yang Still in Charge?Oct 25 17:09
_Doughttp://www.newsweek.com/id/164493Oct 25 17:09
_Dougis this an example of shilling ?Oct 25 17:09
_Doug.Mr Ballmer, speaking at a technology conference in Orlando, said a deal with Yahoo "would make sense economically.".Oct 25 17:11
_Doug:)Oct 25 17:11
_Doughttp://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st...Oct 25 17:12
_DougMS wheels in  "ordinary" developer for Windows 7 ..Oct 25 17:16
_Doughttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1...Oct 25 17:16
PetoKrauslolOct 25 17:18
PetoKrauspoor guy. I'm gonna keep his email, and if W7 it fails, i am gonna email every single failure story on his email address....Oct 25 17:18
_DougBallmer washes hands of Vista Capable claims ..Oct 25 17:18
_Doughttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/228768/ballmer...Oct 25 17:18
PetoKrausoh godOct 25 17:19
PetoKraushow possibly can he say that? He's a fucking CEO of the companyOct 25 17:19
_DougW7 = Xp version 111Oct 25 17:19
PetoKraus_Doug: that wouldn't be THAT badOct 25 17:19
_DougViste = XP version 1 1/2 :)Oct 25 17:19
PetoKraustake WXP kernel, put in Vista bling, and it may actually work better than Vista doesOct 25 17:20
_DougBallmer: please wait for Windows 7 and don't upgrade to any of that socalist Linux stuff ..Oct 25 17:21
PetoKrausanywayOct 25 17:22
_Doug"I don't hafta know this ana'ways"Oct 25 17:23
_Doug:0Oct 25 17:23
PetoKrausi need to write some letters :/ ttylOct 25 17:23
_DougBallmer may be desposed in Vista Capiple class action suit ..Oct 25 17:24
_Doughttp://www.bizjournals.com/seat...Oct 25 17:24
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*VIPPER (n=userrr@202.92.44.173) has joined #boycottnovellOct 25 18:00
VIPPERHey BN admins, the BN website seems to be eating my posts :(Oct 25 18:01
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PetoKrausVIPPER: roy is not here atmOct 25 18:33
VIPPERI seeOct 25 18:33
PetoKrausFFSOct 25 18:47
PetoKrausvirgin is trying to charge me €£60 for service which barely worksOct 25 18:47
PetoKrausoh god.Oct 25 18:47
PetoKrauswhy the fuck do you have to shout at peopleOct 25 18:48
PetoKrausyeah, in soviet russia, virgin fucks you!!!Oct 25 19:11
twitterniceOct 25 19:12
twitterwhat service did you think they would provide?Oct 25 19:13
VIPPERIt's reasonable to presume that they would provide market quality levelOct 25 19:14
PetoKrauswell, we should pay 22.50 for broadband, provided that we call only landlines on weekendOct 25 19:14
PetoKrauswell, it seems, that they are trying to charge me full amount for month, where two weeks we were on lower speed; and month upfront; and installation charge; and phone callsOct 25 19:15
schestowitzhttp://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article... is goneOct 25 19:15
VIPPERYo schestowitzOct 25 19:15
PetoKrausjesus I hate to do it, but I'd have to FUCKING SHOUT (tm) at someone. Maybe i'll start throwing chairs.Oct 25 19:16
schestowitzHey, VIPPER. I just got back.Oct 25 19:16
VIPPERPetoKraus = MS employee?Oct 25 19:16
VIPPER;)Oct 25 19:16
schestowitz_Doug (he's gone): Daniel Lyons akso attacks Apple and Linux. Microsoft shill.Oct 25 19:16
schestowitzPetoKraus: No, why?Oct 25 19:16
schestowitzOops.Oct 25 19:16
PetoKrausVIPPER: i almost feel like....Oct 25 19:16
schestowitzVIPPER: no, why?Oct 25 19:16
PetoKrausi am selling those vista shites to people every saturday...Oct 25 19:17
schestowitzWeird. The Web Archive is down.Oct 25 19:17
PetoKrausanyway, today i downloaded Big Buck Bunny on the machines...Oct 25 19:17
PetoKrausFUN ;)Oct 25 19:17
VIPPERschestowitz: I made two posts a couple of hours ago. It didn't register. I'm pretty sure my browser cache is working fineOct 25 19:17
VIPPERI was posting under the name LandofWind if that is of any helpOct 25 19:18
schestowitzI wonder if Microsoft is using analysts to pressure Yahoo. "Give up to Microsoft. You're doomed!" They still have Icahn and his cronies on board just lurking, maybe waiting for action.Oct 25 19:19
schestowitzVIPPER: maybe it's in moderation. Let me look.Oct 25 19:19
schestowitzWeb archive is bacl.Oct 25 19:19
VIPPERschestowitz: I see. My other posts under other names didn't seem to go through moderationOct 25 19:20
schestowitzhttp://web.archive.org/web/20080116231720/http:...Oct 25 19:20
schestowitzLandofWind and bob?Oct 25 19:20
VIPPERyesOct 25 19:20
VIPPERI do other identities as wellOct 25 19:21
schestowitzIt was in the queue. Now it's published.Oct 25 19:21
VIPPERk thanksOct 25 19:21
schestowitzDid that mentioned hacking?Oct 25 19:21
VIPPERyesOct 25 19:21
VIPPERI wanted to spread the joy of hackingOct 25 19:21
schestowitzThe use of words and mental images is demonic.Oct 25 19:22
VIPPERThat's why I wish to inform everyone of the distinction of hacking and crackingOct 25 19:22
schestowitzMicrosoft tries to paint FOSS devs as people in mother's garage.Oct 25 19:22
schestowitzTo an extent, the stereotype succeeds in penetrating.Oct 25 19:22
VIPPERI wish this fact wasn't true.Oct 25 19:23
VIPPERI wish people would learn to separate facts and opinions.Oct 25 19:23
VIPPERThe power of association is truly powerful I supposeOct 25 19:24
schestowitzLet me see the contextOct 25 19:24
schestowitzOh yeah... I see now.Oct 25 19:25
schestowitzCracking is a word that's hardly news. We should get back to it though.Oct 25 19:25
twitterThinking of cracking, Debian had an October 23 update to Etch.  94 MB for me, quick and painless.Oct 25 19:29
twitterI'll be a little slow chatting today.  I decided to wipe the machine  _Doug played his little joke on.Oct 25 19:30
twitterIt should not take long but I'm doing other things too.Oct 25 19:31
twitterOne of the cool things about free software is how easy it is to rebuild a system without data loss.Oct 25 19:31
VIPPERdata loss?Oct 25 19:32
VIPPERoh, you mean reinstall a system right?Oct 25 19:32
VIPPERI was thinking about recompiling the systemOct 25 19:32
schestowitzJust leave /home in tactOct 25 19:34
schestowitzI never had to reinstalled a distro, unless my hard-drive died.Oct 25 19:35
schestowitz*reinatllOct 25 19:35
twitterWhatever nasty _Doug pulled changed my courser and icons for gaim.  This was persistent for a new temporary user.  That's kind of in my face cracking.Oct 25 19:37
twitterI'm being paranoid moved my home directory from user to user_old and will move selected stuff.Oct 25 19:37
twitterThat and redoing my binaries should do the trick.Oct 25 19:38
twitter:)Oct 25 19:38
schestowitzGaim does not tolerate a EULA.Oct 25 19:39
twitterLike I said, I never saw the first byte of that file.Oct 25 19:39
schestowitzI received some E-mails about the BB articles.Oct 25 19:40
twitterfrom who?Oct 25 19:41
schestowitzOne of them asks what motivated his to write about it.Oct 25 19:41
schestowitzPJOct 25 19:41
twitterPJ will have to ask BB about that.Oct 25 19:41
*VIPPER (n=userrr@202.92.44.173) has left #boycottnovell ("wait, why did I get disconnected?")Oct 25 19:42
twitteraha, now I see vipper's comments.  I'm not sure what they had to do with the subject at hand.  It is interesting that he chose the manufacturing abuse article right after we discussed them and I added Fred's story, without discussion.Oct 25 19:58
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wi...Oct 25 20:01
schestowitzhttp://www.thevarguy.com/2008/10/24/li... "The VAR Guy predicted in July that Netbooks running Linux would proliferate the market. It’s already happening."Oct 25 20:01
schestowitzMicrosoft Sends Windows to the Emergency Room < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/secur... >Oct 25 20:02
schestowitziPhone 2.x Beats Windows Mobile 6.x into Coma < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/desktop_mobi... >Oct 25 20:03
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ZiggyFish1http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsStor... - very interestingOct 25 20:40
schestowitzI saw it the other day.Oct 25 20:42
schestowitzhttp://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/20081024/wa-mic...Oct 25 20:43
schestowitzI'm actually writing about this at the moment, so this article you link to would be a good addition, thanks.Oct 25 20:43
ZiggyFish1npOct 25 20:55
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schestowitzIt's hilarious to see this anti-Linux man trying to sneak out of this one: http://byrondennis.typepad.com/it_investment_rese...Oct 25 21:37
schestowitz*LOL* "Sorry you don't get the point of the footnote but the whole OSF/Minix/ACC Corp/GNU/Apache/OSDL/Linux Foundation thing is a little bit too complex for a blog post... And yes, of course it is an opinion. That's what a blog is" < http://byrondennis.typepad.com/it_... >Oct 25 21:38
schestowitzThe whole blog has been filled with some Linux obsession recently. Odd that one...Oct 25 21:39
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schestowitzZombie PCs: ‘Time to infection is less than five minutes’ : http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=441Oct 25 22:20
twitterSomethings never changeOct 25 22:21
twitterHoly crap though, they quote a M$ person!  " “The mean time to infection is less than five minutes,” said Richie Lai, who is part of Microsoft’s Internet Safety Enforcement Team"Oct 25 22:23
twitterAbout time they admitted the problem.Oct 25 22:24
schestowitzprepare for them to say that other platforms are "Equally Bad"^TMOct 25 22:24
twitterFirst comment, http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-13615-0.html...Oct 25 22:25
twitter"One word: Linux."Oct 25 22:25
twitterha haOct 25 22:26
twitterToo bad the computer experts at ZDNet did not think of that.Oct 25 22:26
twitterAnyone who comes close to M$ is constrained by the Channel 9 Rules.Oct 25 22:27
twitterI'm sorry, "Doctrine"Oct 25 22:27
schestowitzLoads of repliesOct 25 22:28
twitterRules 6,7,8 " Don't shock the system. Lasting change only happens in baby steps.Oct 25 22:28
twitterKnow when to turn the mic off. There are some topics which will only result in problems when you discuss them. This has nothing to do with censorship, but with working within the reality of the system that exists in our world today. You will not change anything by taking on legal or financial issues, you will only shock the system, spook the passengers, and create a negative situation.Oct 25 22:28
twitterDon't be a jerk. Nobody likes mean people."Oct 25 22:28
twitterLOLOct 25 22:28
schestowitzhttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-13615-0.h... "No."Oct 25 22:28
twitterworking within the reality of the system.Oct 25 22:29
twitterwtf does working within the reality of the system mean?Oct 25 22:29
twitterIf you say "freedom" Vista implodes?Oct 25 22:29
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/techbiz/medi...Oct 25 22:30
schestowitz"The author of the email, posted on ZDNet in a Talkback forum on the Microsoft antitrust trial, claimed her name was Michelle Bradley and that she had “retired” from Microsoft last week."Oct 25 22:31
schestowitz"“A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said."Oct 25 22:31
schestowitz"“The theme is ‘Microsoft is responsible for all good things in computerdom.’ The government has no right to prevent MS from doing anything. Period. The ‘memo’ suggests we use fictional names and state and to identify ourselves as students,” the author claimed."Oct 25 22:31
schestowitztwitter: you have got to step your multi-nym thing in Slashdot.Oct 25 22:31
schestowitzPeople use you to discredit BNOct 25 22:32
schestowitzThey do this in Linux.com (mentioning your Slashdot situation) to accuse /me/ of being dishonest. There is also libel there related to this.Oct 25 22:32
twitterare you dishonest?Oct 25 22:35
twitterI don't think so.Oct 25 22:35
twitterpoint to the Linux.com stuff please.Oct 25 22:36
schestowitzHmmmm... ECT has begun buying article from the FAIR USE-hostile AP. That's not good... < http://www.linuxinsider.com/r... >Oct 25 22:36
schestowitzIt's at that 'article' they posted.They sure got a lot of traffic and comments for aggravating BN (more than any article there).  I apologised for the flak Bruce was getting in the past (I get mine too). Controversies are hard to avoid when discussing lesser-technical matters, but as I've said many times before, his technical articles are good..Oct 25 22:37
schestowitzThe scope of the Web site has changed and I knew that once we verged past Novell and onto Microsoft angles then the "Microsoft hater" label will kick into play.Oct 25 22:39
twitterYou are surprised your trolls and mine have feasted onto Linux.com?Oct 25 22:39
schestowitzWell, my participation in BN was conceived, at least in part, in response to coordinated smears and cyber-bullying against myself and people whom I know (lots and lots of libel). I used to write just technical stuff (mostly advocacy related). Later I explored where the attacks came from. This included attacks through my peers and bosses at the time. People like Guttman and Quinn might have something to add because there is a patterOct 25 22:39
schestowitzn here.Oct 25 22:39
schestowitzThis is what gave me passion to drop my job and study this deeply, but the  pursuit for answers is one thing.Oct 25 22:40
schestowitzThe other component was manipulation not just by Microsoft; manipulation of press, formal bodies, governmental positions/panels, parliament and so forth. It's everywhere. I knew how to find the information, so I could share it. Novell was part of this, with involvement by other companies (it's a long story).Oct 25 22:40
schestowitzIt represented an attempt to bypass technical merits and harm Free software in newer, more 'innovative' ways.Oct 25 22:40
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-m...Oct 25 22:41
schestowitzinteresting transcript of iowa TP011207 < http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-m... > .. Microsoft calls developers "pawns"... you brought this up the other day...Oct 25 22:41
schestowitzMicrosoft Patents Adding 'www.' And '.com' To Text: http://techdirt.com/articles/20...Oct 25 22:44
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twitterI'm not worried about Slashdot trolls.  The more they beat on me, the more people know I've hit a nerve.Oct 25 22:51
twitterGoogle sends them to me http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclos...Oct 25 22:51
schestowitzMultiple nyms are against the rules.Oct 25 22:53
twitterWho's rules?Oct 25 22:53
twitterFor the last time, I'm not going to let these asses limit me to 2 posts a day and I am going to disrupt their troll threads.Oct 25 22:54
schestowitzWhoa. a Delay /much/ bigger than first imagined... Xbox Live Primetime Delayed until 2009 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152780/mic... >. Vapourwar. Who are they kidding? XBox 360 victims (are we THERE yet?)Oct 25 22:54
twitterYou just let some vipper post here under two nyms.  Why give me a hard time?Oct 25 22:55
twitterIt's clear you don't approve of some of the things I do on slashdot.  Let's just agree to disagree.Oct 25 22:56
schestowitztwitter: my main problem is that people attribute what you do there to me. It's smear by association, which I find appalling, but still...Oct 25 23:00
twitterYeah, yeah, and BB is trying to smear PJ with you.Oct 25 23:01
twitterAnd both BB and the others are lying.Oct 25 23:03
schestowitzConsider the time *nix users save on reboots and security headaches... http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/10/22/sf-chronicles...Oct 25 23:03
schestowitzYes, that's the thing.Oct 25 23:03
schestowitzThey try to 'source' the smear from somewhere.Oct 25 23:04
twitterThey put a nice touch on the twitter smear post and used a Cox IP address.  Nothing there at the moment of course.Oct 25 23:09
twitterIt was probably done by botnet.Oct 25 23:10
schestowitzhttp://reddevil62-techhead.blogspo...Oct 25 23:11
schestowitz"Hi Steve, Ciaran O'Riordan here. A friend passed me this link and I found it very interesting but have some thoughts about approach. One is that it read like an accepted fact that "Pirated software [...] costs Microsoft millions of dollars", but that's only if we assume that it's Microsoft's money, and if Russia doesn't buy Microsoft software it then must "owe" money to Microsoft."Oct 25 23:11
schestowitzIt seems like a campaign to clean up people's language, which is good. people's vocabulary got contaminated for a purpose by moguls and monopolistsOct 25 23:12
twitterSo PJ wrote you.  Did she give you trouble about guilt by association or was she supportive?Oct 25 23:18
schestowitzhttp://www.grain.org/i/?id=38 "The actors that put the resistance up were programmers that decided to have their own code, their own operational system. Richard Stallman, the founder of the movement, defines the GNU/Linux operational system as "our land in the cyberspace". The actors that put the resistance up were programmers that decided to have their own code, their own operational system. Richard Stallman, the founder of the moOct 25 23:19
schestowitzvement, defines the GNU/Linux operational system as "our land in the cyberspace". "Oct 25 23:19
schestowitzNo, supportive.Oct 25 23:20
schestowitzBB gave GL mflak in the pastOct 25 23:20
twitterYes, I remember that rant about "semi professionals" with all sorts of other name calling.  BB does a lot of that.Oct 25 23:21
schestowitzCan you please find this again?Oct 25 23:21
schestowitzI might want to have this off-hand.Oct 25 23:21
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 25 23:22
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schestowitzIt's the hypocrisy that's a killer here. Like he's a mighty journalist and all else are peons. He actually reiterates that statement too... in footers... in articles... Jack Luftus used to do the same thing, but he hasn't been around for a while.Oct 25 23:22
*schestowitz think PetoKraus restarts X server again.Oct 25 23:23
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-... "Support the Atheist Bus Campaign, putting ads for atheism on buses in London."Oct 25 23:24
schestowitzhttp://www.justgiving.com/atheistbusOct 25 23:25
PetoKrausschestowitz: yes, i did :)Oct 25 23:25
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oc... : US election: Republican operative faces voter registration fraud chargesOct 25 23:26
schestowitz"The arrest comes after McCain and running mate Sarah Palin attempted to tie Barack Obama's campaign to Acorn, playing up a federal investigation of the group's voter registration tactics in several states."Oct 25 23:26
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jul-oct.html... "Deregulation produced the current financial crisis. Now the banks will lobby against the regulations we need to prevent the next financial crisis. This includes regulation of energy trading."Oct 25 23:27
schestowitzThe great green electricity con ; http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/...Oct 25 23:28
schestowitzWTF? Libel against Prof. Lessig: [Random-bits] U.S. Publishers lobby Obama -- against Larry Lessig : http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/ran...Oct 25 23:33
twitterLessig stands for freedom, he will be attacked.Oct 25 23:34
schestowitzI spoke to Glyn about this: http://www.computerworlduk.com/com... . He doesn't know yet that Intel and Microsoft have plans...Oct 25 23:36
schestowitzLook at this photo: http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/22/mccai...Oct 25 23:40
schestowitzThis site is funny. Alan Greenspan: “whoops sorry lol” < http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/24/a... >Oct 25 23:41
twitterthere are hundreds of hit matches for BB and Boycott Novell.   This one was one of the worst http://bruce...Oct 25 23:46
twitterdinner timeOct 25 23:46

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