| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 23 00:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/17/layo... | Nov 23 01:36 |
|---|
| *mib_dneba (i=473558b0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7aebd7b4543272d5) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 02:07 |
| pcolon | gn. Off to the airport. | Nov 23 02:16 |
|---|
| *pcolon has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Nov 23 02:17 |
| twitter | I've decided to look back at the stories I've submitted to Slashdot. Here's a start and I already see a lot I'm proud of, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journ... | Nov 23 02:20 |
|---|
| twitter | good night all. | Nov 23 02:20 |
|---|
| MinceR | gn | Nov 23 02:31 |
|---|
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 02:54 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.29.59) has left #boycottnovell | Nov 23 03:57 |
| *mib_dneba has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Nov 23 04:24 |
| *wispy (i=9f5b894f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-023132aab52e230a) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 04:50 |
| wispy | Hey roy, you there? :) | Nov 23 04:50 |
|---|
| wispy | OK, I'll come back later. | Nov 23 04:53 |
|---|
| *wispy (i=9f5b894f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-023132aab52e230a) has left #boycottnovell | Nov 23 04:53 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.29.59) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 05:05 |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 23 05:38 |
| *koolhead17 (n=atul@220.227.149.144) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 05:42 |
| koolhead17 | hi all | Nov 23 05:42 |
|---|
| *koolhead17 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 23 05:44 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Nov 23 06:55 |
| *kevin8675309 (n=kevin@adsl-71-132-205-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 08:20 |
| schestowitz | Big Brotha is watching: http://www.pcworld.com/article/154392/verizon... | Nov 23 09:01 |
|---|
| *Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 23 09:38 |
| schestowitz | [OT] Explanation of he crisis: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kN... | Nov 23 10:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KYlyb1Bx9I... | Nov 23 10:23 |
|---|
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Cravath Cuts Bonuses, Hints at 2008 Financials < http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?i... > | Nov 23 10:45 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i am so tired of this Chrome FUD | Nov 23 10:58 |
|---|
| schestowitz | That it's 'open'? | Nov 23 10:58 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | yes, that's the thing which annoys me most | Nov 23 10:59 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Or at it's got a bad EUL? | Nov 23 10:59 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Open means nothing. | Nov 23 10:59 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i mean, even freaking Mozilla let's you use their trademark as long as you don't change much | Nov 23 10:59 |
|---|
| schestowitz | GPL... Free software. Check your rights. | Nov 23 10:59 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If it were Free and built using a proper stack, it would be trivial to build on anything... Cell blades, GNU system, anything... | Nov 23 11:00 |
|---|
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: same with Red Hat (trademarks) | Nov 23 11:00 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well but red-hat distributes you complete source | Nov 23 11:00 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | last time I checked, Chromium != Chrome - Trademarks | Nov 23 11:00 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | and this whole "omg we'll preinstall this rubbish on PC's" | Nov 23 11:01 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | another reason for me to wipe any out-of-the-box install with prefferably Gnu/linux, but even clean windows | Nov 23 11:01 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Hardware needs to be more free to build. | Nov 23 11:02 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well i don't disagree | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You pick the components based on their merits, not rely on OEM bribes, collusions, 'incentives'... | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | A proper PC shop should work like Subway | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | that's why I like dell's business scheme | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | if only they done it the PROPER way | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You come in, you say what you want in the box and get a fair price. | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | that means, include AMD and Ubuntu anywhere | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Don't like some HDD, choose another one... | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: in slovakia, it works like that | Nov 23 11:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Same with some GNU/Linux distros | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | most people build their own pc's | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | everyone has a friend in the warehouses | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They bundle a lot of software, but you have hundreds of options and can spin your own | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | no one, except of stupid ppl and corporate environments buy build machines | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Here people just let some Dell make their choices | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | *built | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Mind you, Dell was bribes by Intel to avoid AMD | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well, duh | Nov 23 11:04 |
|---|
| schestowitz | AMD is in many ways better, but Dell pocketed a bribe to 'decide 'for you' | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | the idea of my next laptop being HP is scary | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | but they are the only ones doing AMD Puma atm | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, laptops are hard | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | They should | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Someone should | Nov 23 11:05 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Intel needs to be embargoed in some places. | Nov 23 11:06 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's an interference to fair markets. | Nov 23 11:06 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | moreover, you don't really need Core 2 Quad in your laptop, when your IGP is crappy | Nov 23 11:06 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | my boss sold a machine like that yesterday | Nov 23 11:07 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | €£3.1k | Nov 23 11:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Haha. | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Price-fixing work, I guess. | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *words | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *works | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | not really | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Why not? | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's dell offer on the webpage | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | so it's price-fixing from dell, not from us | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You allow companies to tell /YOU/ how much PCs costs if you isolate the market | Nov 23 11:08 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's the polycracy transformed to s sector. | Nov 23 11:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | "Trust Intel and Microsoft to tell you how much a PC costs" | Nov 23 11:09 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | brb, i need tp wake up | Nov 23 11:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Dell is merely part of this. | Nov 23 11:09 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Hold on, I'll give you a URL | Nov 23 11:09 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i am not parting IRC ;) | Nov 23 11:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/02/02/int... and http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/29/... | Nov 23 11:10 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I can 'snip' for you. | Nov 23 11:10 |
|---|
| *kentma (n=user@host86-153-158-159.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 12:09 |
| PetoKraus | bloody nutter: v | Nov 23 12:19 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.p... | Nov 23 12:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not really. | Nov 23 12:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I think all govt. communication must be visible. | Nov 23 12:20 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I don't know the violators' intentions, but I almost commend them. | Nov 23 12:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Knowing how much corruption runs the system < http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8ghoXQxd... >, total transparency is a must, IMHO, family being an exception. | Nov 23 12:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Otherwise we are left involved in this once in 4 years... without knowing how or why he makes certain decisions. Let the public be HEARD, not HERD. | Nov 23 12:23 |
|---|
| trmanco | Hi | Nov 23 12:23 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: well i dunno | Nov 23 12:24 |
|---|
| schestowitz | About what? | Nov 23 12:24 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i think president's account should be secured | Nov 23 12:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | The Palin incident... that was personal mail (bad), but if he speaks to top people to make decison, the public must know. | Nov 23 12:25 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | publicly displayed, maybe, but they SHOULD be secure | Nov 23 12:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | What you're suggesting if closed-box regime. | Nov 23 12:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Too dangerous. You make independent elites | Nov 23 12:25 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I mean, look at BN | Nov 23 12:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | A lot of thought and discussion comes from IRC... but nothing is kept secret. People can see the anatomy of thoughts. Same in USENET, to an extent. | Nov 23 12:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Compare ODF or Debian development to OOXML and Windows. | Nov 23 12:27 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: well, what I am saying is, that obviously, governmential bodies should have their net secure | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Linux too... kernel.org and git... mailing lists..... you have paper trail and you can find out why decisions are being made. | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i am not addressing the issue of transparency at all | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | in ideal society (tm), the data should be publicly displayed, but still secure from editing | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: if they want security, they should work on it properly | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | that's what i am trying to say | Nov 23 12:28 |
|---|
| schestowitz | With people in the system, it's impossible to get total security | Nov 23 12:29 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | obviously not | Nov 23 12:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Inside attacks, man in the middle, threat from within and all that...... | Nov 23 12:29 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | but still, you don't want man-in-the-middle attacks on your govt's pages | Nov 23 12:29 |
|---|
| schestowitz | WHich pages? | Nov 23 12:29 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: we've had some incidents in slovakia | Nov 23 12:30 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | national security bureau compromised | Nov 23 12:30 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | you also don't want your medical records to be publicly available | Nov 23 12:30 |
|---|
| schestowitz | US too... | Nov 23 12:30 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Pentagon, White house, you name it. | Nov 23 12:30 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | there's distinction between policy and politics making, which should be transparent | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I know of no single thing that's immune to vandalism or total leak of all data | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | and personal data, which shouldn't | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Not even the biggest banks | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: my whirlpool is! | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | :P | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | What about wikileaks | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well that's completely okay | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| schestowitz | How do you ensure the 'Man with All The Password' doesn't toss stuff in there? | Nov 23 12:31 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | community review... | Nov 23 12:32 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | anyway, the point i am trying to make | Nov 23 12:32 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | is, that public figures have no right to privacy | Nov 23 12:32 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I think 'privacy' is not only dead, but we should almost give up on it. | Nov 23 12:32 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's your choice to be "public figure", people poking in your privacy is the cost of it | Nov 23 12:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Anything people hide tends to be bad. | Nov 23 12:33 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | on the other hand, misplaced databases of medical records etc are a BAD thing which shouldn't happen | Nov 23 12:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Any time someone doesn't want to show something, it's for selfish reason. | Nov 23 12:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Good thing.. people want to share | Nov 23 12:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Bad things.. people hide using euphemisms | Nov 23 12:34 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's hard to draw a line | Nov 23 12:36 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | whether you have right to be anonymous... whether you have right to keep something private | Nov 23 12:36 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i'd say yes to both | Nov 23 12:36 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | on the other hand, that means we are giving room to the leaders to "hide stuff" | Nov 23 12:36 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 23 12:46 |
|---|
| schestowitz | But that's the thing | Nov 23 12:46 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If you put yourself in the public scene, you must accept other rules. | Nov 23 12:46 |
|---|
| schestowitz | As Jeff Waugh used to say, being a spokesman makes his susceptible to criticism. That's part of the job or an artifact rather. | Nov 23 12:47 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: yes, exactly | Nov 23 12:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Likewise, a president should be spied on by the public if he runs the country for them. | Nov 23 12:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This whole notion of govt. behind closed doors and secret services is ludicrous. It's totality almost. | Nov 23 12:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Just because it is not conventional thinking does not make it improper. It's clear that the system is broken (tell this to 90,000 Americans who lost their job this month alone). | Nov 23 12:48 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | yes, but setting the distinction who it's okay to "spy" on and who it's not | Nov 23 12:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | is hard | Nov 23 12:49 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It should be written and made clear to those involved. | Nov 23 12:50 |
|---|
| schestowitz | As in,if you become president, you 'professional' phonecalls will be made available as audio and text to the public. | Nov 23 12:51 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I think they should go further and track these people's meetings too. Lots of people out there (reporters and bloggers) too *will* look into this and publish iffy things too. | Nov 23 12:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This either leads to the president to behaving better (constant eye watching) or being caught for bad/corrupt decision-making. | Nov 23 12:52 |
|---|
| schestowitz | MI5 agents are the same... they are tracked all the same. I know this from a friend at the gym whose brother was offered a job by the MI5. It comes with strings. | Nov 23 12:53 |
|---|
| *mib_47sgtf (i=c31a4ab1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-43e1cea2fdeefded) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 13:21 |
| *mib_47sgtf has quit (Client Quit) | Nov 23 13:23 |
| *anivar (i=79f64245@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5f64af72400ac26f) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 13:37 |
| anivar | schestowitz: hey | Nov 23 13:38 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Hey, what's up? | Nov 23 13:38 |
|---|
| anivar | schestowitz: nothing special. | Nov 23 13:39 |
|---|
| anivar | CUSAT incidents become a big controvercy in local media | Nov 23 13:39 |
|---|
| anivar | a lot of magazines are pinging me for articles on it | Nov 23 13:40 |
|---|
| anivar | Even a lot of new comments are coming in blog | Nov 23 13:40 |
|---|
| schestowitz | That's good. | Nov 23 13:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | This means that the media gives presence to voices of Freedom | Nov 23 13:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Try to explain to people the causes of Free software. Most people don't know and never stop to think about it. | Nov 23 13:43 |
|---|
| anivar | hey I dont think so. It is because a political party also involved (silently ) | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| anivar | But we can use this space | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Ah... | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| anivar | to spread the cause | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Supportive of FS or not? | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| *schestowitz doesn't know Indian politics at all. | Nov 23 13:44 |
| anivar | It is big story | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Microsoft plays politics too. | Nov 23 13:44 |
|---|
| anivar | Yes | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | McCain for instance is behind letting Microsoft ran wild... among others. | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| anivar | But it is not black and white | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | *wun | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | y helo thar | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Hehe | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | India is the biggest software nation, I think. | Nov 23 13:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | If FS can grow, India is crucial. | Nov 23 13:46 |
|---|
| anivar | but the compuer penetration is 1.5 % of population | Nov 23 13:46 |
|---|
| anivar | computer | Nov 23 13:46 |
|---|
| anivar | typo | Nov 23 13:46 |
|---|
| anivar | The 11th 5 year plan for development clearly says FS is the way forward | Nov 23 13:47 |
|---|
| anivar | to increase comp penetration to 5 % | Nov 23 13:47 |
|---|
| anivar | see a news from karnataka http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/19/sto... | Nov 23 13:49 |
|---|
| anivar | A Technical university in karnataka state is in partnership with M$ | Nov 23 13:49 |
|---|
| *anivar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Nov 23 13:50 |
| *_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 14:04 |
| trmanco | may I post an OT bash quote? | Nov 23 14:27 |
|---|
| _doug | yea .. sure ... | Nov 23 14:48 |
|---|
| MinceR | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoon... | Nov 23 14:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/23/losing... | Nov 23 14:57 |
|---|
| MinceR | :) | Nov 23 14:59 |
|---|
| *kevin8675309 (n=kevin@adsl-71-132-205-189.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has left #boycottnovell | Nov 23 15:10 |
| trmanco | _doug, <arkan> You know, you really ought to have a bra with 403: forbidden on it.<Labyrinth> And you really ought to have a pair of boxers with 404: not found. | Nov 23 15:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | old | Nov 23 15:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | People out to take a look at the memos in the collusion case: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/11... ( Microsoft asks court to dismiss Vista Incapable lawsuit ). _doug you can dig up lots of s* from these PDF and the n share them in public | Nov 23 15:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | E.g.: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11... ( How Close is Rob Enderle to Microsoft? Here’s How Close. ) | Nov 23 15:34 |
|---|
| _doug | Enderle did seem to be trying to warn them of the comming disaster .. | Nov 23 15:39 |
|---|
| _doug | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2... | Nov 23 15:43 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: nice! | Nov 23 15:43 |
|---|
| _doug | Latest Open Source FUD on slashdot .. | Nov 23 15:44 |
|---|
| _doug | "Is Open Source Software a Race To Zero?" | Nov 23 15:44 |
|---|
| _doug | http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/08/... | Nov 23 15:44 |
|---|
| *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 15:44 |
| _doug | "My company is an open source software vendor/develope .. Over time we've seen our business model eroding as other open source projects produce free versions of the same extensions and utilities that are our bread and butter." | Nov 23 15:44 |
|---|
| neighborlee | morn ;0- | Nov 23 15:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | _doug: nothing provocative in the headline. ;-) | Nov 23 16:05 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | why liferea sucks so badly? | Nov 23 16:09 |
|---|
| MinceR | i think it's for the same reason akregator sucks so badly | Nov 23 16:10 |
|---|
| MinceR | i'm thinking of moving to some sort of feed-to-email and reading them over imap | Nov 23 16:10 |
|---|
| MinceR | but even imap is slow, at least from kmail | Nov 23 16:11 |
|---|
| MinceR | i've thought of writing a new feed reader, but i lack the time | Nov 23 16:11 |
|---|
| *kentma has quit ("Leaving.") | Nov 23 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Use Thunderbird. | Nov 23 16:17 |
|---|
| schestowitz | You can handle RSS items like mail. Symbiosis. Used RSSOwl beforehand. | Nov 23 16:17 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | MinceR: that's what i am thinking of doing right now | Nov 23 16:21 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it can't be THAT hard | Nov 23 16:21 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: that's a good idea | Nov 23 16:22 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i'd be able to move from sunbird to thunderbird then | Nov 23 16:22 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | hmm | Nov 23 16:22 |
|---|
| MinceR | what i'm looking for is a _fast_ database to handle feed items (including viewing all the feeds inside a folder -- i don't know how i could do this with email, perhaps via a virtual folder) | Nov 23 16:24 |
|---|
| MinceR | and being able to access the same database from multiple hosts would be nice | Nov 23 16:24 |
|---|
| MinceR | (laptop and pda/phone) | Nov 23 16:24 |
|---|
| MinceR | i've noticed that akregator becomes really slow with feeds with lots of items (i want to keep them all) | Nov 23 16:25 |
|---|
| MinceR | someone recommended liferea, but it seems to be just as slow | Nov 23 16:25 |
|---|
| MinceR | a webapp i can run on my server with 3-pane view would be nice too, but i can't find any | Nov 23 16:25 |
|---|
| MinceR | the only FLOSS feed reading webapp i've found is Gregarius, which doesn't seem to have a 3-pane view | Nov 23 16:26 |
|---|
| MinceR | (also, putting a notification icon in the tray would require some programming on my side) | Nov 23 16:26 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | liferea is crap | Nov 23 16:27 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it eats 50% of my cpu for no apparent reason | Nov 23 16:27 |
|---|
| MinceR | also, it would be nice if the feed database would be portable across clients (only email seems to be able to do this...) | Nov 23 16:27 |
|---|
| MinceR | i guess i'll have to bite the bullet and test how well searching in all subfolders in kmail works | Nov 23 16:28 |
|---|
| MinceR | but i suspect that maildirs aren't really cut out for that job | Nov 23 16:28 |
|---|
| MinceR | i expected liferea to be fast (as it uses sqlite) but i guess their schema doesn't fit the folder view | Nov 23 16:30 |
|---|
| MinceR | akregator uses some kind of non-sql database | Nov 23 16:30 |
|---|
| *Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.3.6) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 16:31 |
| *Omar87 sends his greetings to schestowitz. | Nov 23 16:32 |
| Omar87 | Hello everyone. :) | Nov 23 16:33 |
|---|
| _doug | hi there .. | Nov 23 16:33 |
|---|
| _doug | how's thinks in Jordan ? | Nov 23 16:34 |
|---|
| _doug | ping Omar ... | Nov 23 16:35 |
|---|
| _doug | "China has stepped up computer espionage against the US government and American businesses .. Congress .. warned that China was gaining increasing access to sensitive information from US computer networks" | Nov 23 16:36 |
|---|
| _doug | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi... | Nov 23 16:36 |
|---|
| _doug | Quick, get that sensitive information off the Internet, IMMEDIATLY !!! | Nov 23 16:37 |
|---|
| _doug | "The report said the US government and economy were critically vulnerable to cyber-space attack since both depended heavily on computers and the internet" | Nov 23 16:37 |
|---|
| MinceR | thunderbird can't display all the feed items of a folder :/ | Nov 23 16:38 |
|---|
| _doug | that would be Windows and the Internet .. | Nov 23 16:38 |
|---|
| _doug | "world's first online mobile psychotherapy service" | Nov 23 16:41 |
|---|
| _doug | http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communica... | Nov 23 16:41 |
|---|
| *kapipi (n=chatzill@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 16:41 |
| neighborlee | oh btw in case anyone wondered, debian lenny does not install mono or any of its apps by default ( I just finished installer) ;) | Nov 23 16:43 |
|---|
| MinceR | :) | Nov 23 16:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | hey, Omar87 | Nov 23 16:44 |
|---|
| schestowitz | MinceR: you can share ~/.thunderbird across PCs | Nov 23 16:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | perhaps i should host my maildir on some fs other than ext3 | Nov 23 16:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | schestowitz: won't that break if they're all running a copy? | Nov 23 16:45 |
|---|
| schestowitz | neighborlee: true, it doesn't. IIRC, it almost made it, but there are resistors. | Nov 23 16:46 |
|---|
| schestowitz | MinceR: depends. | Nov 23 16:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Thundrbird has a /lock/ file. | Nov 23 16:47 |
|---|
| MinceR | ic | Nov 23 16:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Also, what I used to do it SSH to one host machine (the one I have at work) | Nov 23 16:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I now use my machine as home as the 'main' one. | Nov 23 16:47 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Same with KNode. FF can be slow because rendering pages over the network is no fun, esp. when you scroll. | Nov 23 16:48 |
|---|
| MinceR | hm, does rsync help sync only the changed parts of a large binary blob? | Nov 23 16:48 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | no, it copies the whole changed file afaik | Nov 23 16:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | macabe: I don't know. I no longer use rsync | Nov 23 16:48 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Oops. That was to MinceR | Nov 23 16:48 |
|---|
| MinceR | for file-level sharing, such an approach would be nice. | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | svn? | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | but i guess some NFS-like approach could work too. | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | :P | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | svn doesn't target binaries | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | ah :/ | Nov 23 16:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | hm, someone says rsync only gets the changed parts | Nov 23 16:50 |
|---|
| MinceR | finally i see some point to using it :> | Nov 23 16:50 |
|---|
| *kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 23 16:51 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, whew ;) | Nov 23 16:51 |
|---|
| schestowitz | rsync should treat binaries as a special case and just overwrite if changed, I suppose. | Nov 23 16:52 |
|---|
| trmanco | Mono 2.0.1 has already been pushed into jaunty | Nov 23 16:52 |
|---|
| trmanco | by... you know the guy... | Nov 23 16:53 |
|---|
| trmanco | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/jaunty-cha... | Nov 23 16:54 |
|---|
| schestowitz | The tooth fairy? | Nov 23 17:02 |
|---|
| trmanco | I don't know him by that name | Nov 23 17:03 |
|---|
| trmanco | lol | Nov 23 17:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, he avoid the question too. | Nov 23 17:07 |
|---|
| schestowitz | He was asked in BN why/if he's pushing this poison pill into distros. Instead of responding he attacked the messenger, IIRC. | Nov 23 17:08 |
|---|
| neighborlee | When they feel backed into a corner and have no other answer,,they either do that, or if on a forum, 'request thread closed' LOL ;) | Nov 23 17:13 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Quick! Schnell! Zon't give an opport~1 to shoot down the monkey. | Nov 23 17:14 |
|---|
| neighborlee | &/or moved to recurring ,,:)) | Nov 23 17:14 |
|---|
| schestowitz | A whole culture developed around this Novell/Microsoft product (Mono) | Nov 23 17:14 |
|---|
| neighborlee | and I wasn't the only one to note that fact either. | Nov 23 17:14 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Why does Ubuntu take this poison? It's beyond me.. | Nov 23 17:15 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I guess? they feel they are safe, being harbored in UK ? ;)) | Nov 23 17:15 |
|---|
| neighborlee | nastttttttttty | Nov 23 17:17 |
|---|
| neighborlee | his reply sounds like typical rants from mono backers | Nov 23 17:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | " At this stage we see no significant issues with patents and Mono. There is a risk of a patent claim against almost any component of Ubuntu - across every jurisdiction in which Ubuntu ships, the patent minefield is too complex. " | Nov 23 17:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | “We cannot live in fear of that threat, we can only respond to it as an when it arises.” | Nov 23 17:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I still have not verified yet if fedora dvd still has it, maybe someone else has ;0- | Nov 23 17:19 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Fedora reaches many people (millions, maybe 10 million). It's time for Red Hat to clean up this mess and a friend tells me that their legal team is apparently watching this closely/ | Nov 23 17:20 |
|---|
| neighborlee | kinda like,,well we know global warming exists as of LONG ago,,but we really only need to respond to it when its aRISES ( or when certain gov. heads dont block it),ha < | Nov 23 17:21 |
|---|
| schestowitz | BN has more Fedora/Red Hat readers than SUSE | Nov 23 17:22 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Good analogy | Nov 23 17:22 |
|---|
| neighborlee | that does not surprise me i n the least | Nov 23 17:22 |
|---|
| neighborlee | thx ;) | Nov 23 17:22 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I hope I'm not being too,,holier than thou :) | Nov 23 17:23 |
|---|
| neighborlee | please let me know if I ever do get there <winks> | Nov 23 17:23 |
|---|
| _doug | WebXchange sues Visual Studio endusers .. | Nov 23 17:24 |
|---|
| _doug | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-1010089... | Nov 23 17:24 |
|---|
| _doug | 'In its suit, Microsoft said that WebXchange's lawsuit has "placed a cloud over Visual Studio software, Web services, and the SOAP protocol."' | Nov 23 17:26 |
|---|
| _doug | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_... | Nov 23 17:26 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Sigh. It won't end.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/21/mono-and-moonl... | Nov 23 17:28 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I can't follow news. The hecklers pop us endlessly trying to shoot down the messenger. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/22/protectio... | Nov 23 17:28 |
|---|
| _doug | Notice the request was for a: "Request for a written license for ECMA 334 implementation" | Nov 23 17:31 |
|---|
| _doug | And the email responded with: "If a license to cover Mono or other technologies is necessary, I can workwith you and/" | Nov 23 17:32 |
|---|
| neighborlee | schestowitz, if I were you I might consider blocking their IP's from even posting...its one thing to be willing to engage the 'other side', but its another thing to be swamped in rhetoric that only wants to divide rather than 'discuss' rationally..they do it here, and they do it on ubuntu forums,,and people here AND on ubuntu forums ( some anyway), see IT for what it is ;)) | Nov 23 17:33 |
|---|
| _doug | How does this relate to ECMA 332 ? | Nov 23 17:33 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I had the wrong ECMA number initially. | Nov 23 17:39 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I corrected it. | Nov 23 17:39 |
|---|
| Omar87 | Hey guys, I'm back | Nov 23 17:42 |
|---|
| Omar87 | _doug: sorry I didn't answer you, I was away, just came back. :) | Nov 23 17:42 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I'm away for a while | Nov 23 17:43 |
|---|
| Omar87 | schestowitz: So what's that youtube video thing? | Nov 23 17:43 |
|---|
| schestowitz | I've got to go for a couple of hours. | Nov 23 17:50 |
|---|
| *seller_liar (i=c944ce05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d6fed356746bada2) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 18:05 |
| trmanco | http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/... | Nov 23 18:07 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | "nice" | Nov 23 18:13 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | the device mechanism in linux seriously needs rework | Nov 23 18:13 |
|---|
| trmanco | hardware "for" Windows | Nov 23 18:14 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | yes. You get what you pay for | Nov 23 18:15 |
|---|
| trmanco | I would like to see Windows load tat SD card without it's precious.inf files | Nov 23 18:15 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | windows unmounting is even more flakey that unix one at times | Nov 23 18:16 |
|---|
| neighborlee | sometimes theses debates from some users sound like school children recess arguements..I mean do they really think anyone is going to take them seriously acting like this , calling people 'dense' that dont fit their world views ;)...oh wait thats a talking point from one of them isn't it , how darn ironic ;) | Nov 23 18:16 |
|---|
| MinceR | vista takes flaky unmounting to a new level | Nov 23 18:16 |
|---|
| MinceR | (namely, that it just doesn't work) | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| neighborlee | ive never had any trouble unmounting things in windows.vista included.I guess YMMV :) | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| MinceR | probably | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | neighborlee: you probably don't use dodgy flashdrives or your PC is well secured | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| neighborlee | indeed | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | we're using, at work, a pc, where's FREE AVG as a frontline of defence | Nov 23 18:17 |
|---|
| MinceR | i somehow doubt that kingston is dodgy | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I run comodo, and have windows firewall on, in addition to linksys router firewall | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | we're running our service database on that machine, RDP to main invoice database | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | I take no chances, when in in a battle zone haha ;) | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | we plug almost every hdd we need to diagnose in the machine | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| neighborlee | in /I'm | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | no wonder the thing can't unmount the hard drives... | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | still, you should be able to kill all processes using the hdd, which you simply cannot under windows | Nov 23 18:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | out of the box, that is... | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| trmanco | neighborlee, that is a lot of "junk" | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | running windows is taking chances :> | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | avg is nice too yup, but I think comodo has more feature for the price or so I remember | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| trmanco | comodo is free | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| trmanco | I think | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | trmanco, of course, but I feel safer using all of it ;) | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | PetoKraus: no processes were supposed to use the flash drive | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | all apps were closed | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| trmanco | neighborlee, But you aren't still safe | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | trmanco, yup its free, otherwise I would not be using it | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | yet vista still claimed it's being used | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | neighborlee: i think using FREE antivirus in CORPORATE environment is just asking for trouble | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| MinceR | (didn't say by what, of course) | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | PetoKraus, im not cooporate. | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| trmanco | you never will be :-P | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | neighborlee: i am | Nov 23 18:19 |
|---|
| neighborlee | ic | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i am talking about my work | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | where these dumb people can't realise what stupidity are they dashing out | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| neighborlee | education is a wonderful tool. | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i mean - you don't wanna plug drives with viruses into your WXP machine! | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | yes, you can read what i did on my blog... http://pk.gjhak.sk | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | slowly i'll erode the company | Nov 23 18:20 |
|---|
| neighborlee | :) | Nov 23 18:21 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | and explain that it's necessary to install linux/bsd on machines which should act as a "data recovery" stations | Nov 23 18:21 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | ESPECIALLY because there's like 90% chance that the pure fact that Windows doesn't boot is caused by malicious "software". | Nov 23 18:21 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | (number pulled out of my ass) | Nov 23 18:22 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | moreover last time i saw how one guy tried to revive Raid 1 array, i almost cried | Nov 23 18:22 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | he used them drives.... in windows... | Nov 23 18:22 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i mean, just freaking DD the whole thing, so if you crap up, you still have the original data | Nov 23 18:23 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | people are stupid. | Nov 23 18:24 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's sad that this is the only thing I learned about life in the UK | Nov 23 18:24 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | there was a girl who brought us her laptop | Nov 23 18:25 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | she jacked in her AC cable into usb port | Nov 23 18:25 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i had HARD time not to burst in laughter... how possibly can you do that?!? she BROKE the plastic bar inside of the USB port and bent the pins... | Nov 23 18:25 |
|---|
| seller_liar | The big problem in free operating systems is the lacking of hardware manager | Nov 23 18:31 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Linux people believe in head shot detection | Nov 23 18:31 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Where the OS detects evrything without a manual instalation | Nov 23 18:32 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://www.linux-watch.com/files/misc/... | Nov 23 18:32 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_liar: and what's bad about it? | Nov 23 18:32 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Someone must create a easy hardware manager | Nov 23 18:32 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | as long as you 1) keep the detection transparent 2) make it configurable | Nov 23 18:32 |
|---|
| seller_liar | but the is very hard the linux detect everything | Nov 23 18:33 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | like, for example, xorg independent of xorg.conf is nice, but i should be still able to override xorg's own settings using xorg.conf | Nov 23 18:33 |
|---|
| seller_liar | It's necessary create a hardware manager GUI-BASED and without use of "fronettendds | Nov 23 18:34 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i still don't get what for | Nov 23 18:34 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Like hardware manager of windowz | Nov 23 18:34 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | the HW detection in linux is much better than in windoze from the UI side | Nov 23 18:34 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | lspci actually SHOWS you something | Nov 23 18:34 |
|---|
| seller_liar | I know ,but if the hardware detection fails??? | Nov 23 18:35 |
|---|
| seller_liar | What the user must do? | Nov 23 18:35 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well, if the hardware detection fails, you are pretty much f* | Nov 23 18:35 |
|---|
| seller_liar | lspci is very rudimentary command line interface | Nov 23 18:35 |
|---|
| seller_liar | and lspci only Informs about hardware | Nov 23 18:35 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Someone know th program in java? | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well i should know a bit | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Try to create a hardware manager using gnome-java | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | or | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | QT Jambi | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | pay me, will do :P | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | hehe | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | But there's no need to program in full time | Nov 23 18:36 |
|---|
| seller_liar | only some hours | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | This is the first solution of linux | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | create a hardware manager | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well hmm | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | create GUI interfaces for hardware acess | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | For example | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | all net connection in windowz is done in GUI | Nov 23 18:37 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Networking,driver installation , Sound ,etc | Nov 23 18:38 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Linux need this | Nov 23 18:38 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | for desktop deployment? | Nov 23 18:38 |
|---|
| seller_liar | And windowz does not use Stupid "frontends" | Nov 23 18:38 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | what's stupid about frontend | Nov 23 18:38 |
|---|
| seller_liar | The Linux people must use GUI without use backends | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | what? | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: is that a troll? | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| seller_liar | no | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| seller_liar | NO | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| seller_liar | I'm sincere | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| seller_liar | I like linux | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i guess we could agree to disagree in this matter | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| MinceR | seller_liar: first you'll need a reasonable argument why the gui+backend approach isn't good enough | Nov 23 18:39 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | frontend-backend separation is one of the things which give linux it's performance edge | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Because It causes dissonance | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| MinceR | technical arguments, please | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| seller_liar | For example ,the Gui passes messages to the backend and after the backend execustes | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| seller_liar | this is very bad | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| seller_liar | because if the gui dies ,the backend continues to work | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| MinceR | you'd prefer the gui to freeze while processing happens? | Nov 23 18:40 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_liar: which is what you'd expect it to do | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| seller_liar | this is very bad and blocks the usability | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| MinceR | and you'd prefer the backend to die with the gui? | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | look at Hurd | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| MinceR | i think you have a really strange concept of usability | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| MinceR | (well, most "experts" do...) | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | hurd is frontend-backend separation taken to perfection (except it's not working) | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| seller_liar | There's a need to direct acess to functionality throgh Libs | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well not really | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| MinceR | (it's enough to take a look at the train wreck that is the apple HIG, and its copy used by gnome) | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| seller_liar | For example ,all windowz appz uses this concept | Nov 23 18:41 |
|---|
| MinceR | seller_liar: "windows apps use this" is not a valid argument | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Gui Links directly with dll and not with backend | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_liar: you can do that on linux as well | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | the point is | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | the backends are usually WELL tested | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| MinceR | so your "usability issue" is that message passing is done via function calls and not other means such as sockets? | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| MinceR | is that a usability issue? | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Why , Two Interfaces? | Nov 23 18:42 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_liar: because of debugging | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Gui must use use direct function calls | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| seller_liar | And Sometimes The backend fails and The continues working,but the uses did not perceive this | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| MinceR | separating the gui for the backend also gives other benefits such as a cleaner design resulting in a more robust implementation | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| MinceR | and possibly even network transparency | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| seller_liar | No | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| seller_liar | This is very stupid | Nov 23 18:43 |
|---|
| MinceR | seller_liar: i'm still waiting for technical arguments | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | alright, he's a troll. | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| MinceR | indeed | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Every time the gui uses a backend | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | case closed, !next | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| seller_liar | The gui bases in CLI concepts | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | not really, but let's say yess | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | ever heard of dbus? | Nov 23 18:44 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Dbus is a app daemon | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | no, it's a message passing mechanism | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| seller_liar | there's not a need for a gui for dbus | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well... more of a IPC daemon | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| seller_liar | Yes | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | or rather, IPC mechanism | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | wicd uses dbus, for example | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| MinceR | seller_liar: the point is that dbus can connect the gui with the backend without any of those "cli concepts" you're so horrified about. | Nov 23 18:45 |
|---|
| seller_liar | But instead link the lib directly with gui | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| MinceR | (forgetting that every command and query could be mapped to "cli concepts" anyway) | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| seller_liar | There's not need for stupid communication and two interfaces | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_liar: and what are the improvements of that approach? | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| MinceR | lol, "stupid communication" | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| seller_liar | More fast | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | hmm, you have a point | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| MinceR | look at windows and say with a straight face that it's fast | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | in this particular thing | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| seller_liar | messaging passing is Sloow | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| MinceR | then we'll laugh at you | Nov 23 18:46 |
|---|
| MinceR | yes, that's what they said about having the gui in userspace | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | message passing is, yes, slow | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| *seller_ (i=c89ef331@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-14fe65d6f400294b) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 23 18:47 |
| MinceR | result: we have windows with gui in the kernel and it's not only unreliable, it's also slow | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | just use gentoo with -03 --funroll-all-loops --oomg-optimize --ffast-math | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| seller_ | I 'm not a trool | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | and you are set. | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| MinceR | and we have x, which runs in userspace and is faster than the windows gui on the same machine. | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| seller_ | "Stupid coomunication " I'm reffering about the apps and not here | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| MinceR | don't forget --vomit-frame-pointer either | Nov 23 18:47 |
|---|
| seller_ | But X is a system app | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | MinceR: that one is actually the only one which is harmless AND gives slight performance improvement | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| seller_ | Look | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| seller_ | For example | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | at a cost of impossible debugging, tho | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| seller_ | Have you seen the scene where the user clicks in Gui and does happen nothing | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| MinceR | i've seen it | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| MinceR | in photoshop, for example | Nov 23 18:48 |
|---|
| seller_ | because of backend is crashed or bugged | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| seller_ | but the Gui does nothing about it | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | oh, and libraries are immune to bugs | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | we know | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | libraries are perfect! | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| seller_ | No | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well then the gui is poorly programmed | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | obviously | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| seller_ | But if the gui crashes | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| seller_ | The software crashes everything | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | and of course, windows in its infinite perfection always responds immediately | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| seller_ | And The user restart the program | Nov 23 18:49 |
|---|
| MinceR | because of the magic of the perfect libraries | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| seller_ | and eliminates the dependency of CLI | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| *seller_liar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Nov 23 18:50 |
| MinceR | restarting the program rewrites it to use a library instead? | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_: ever seen kernel panic? | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| MinceR | this "discussion" is getting funnier by the second | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | seller_: why do you think it happens | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| seller_ | But the kernel is the system | Nov 23 18:50 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it doesn't matter | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| seller_ | app ,the user restarts | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| seller_ | System do not | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | if you were using Hurd | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| seller_ | Is more fast this approach | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | you'd be able to restart the fallen daemon without hassle | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | at a cost of slight IPC overhead much better stability | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| seller_ | The CLI-GUI-CLI-GUI messaging passing is very ....ugly | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's elegant, tested, and working | Nov 23 18:51 |
|---|
| seller_ | No , you are wrong | Nov 23 18:52 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | why do you think modules for linux were introduced in the first place? | Nov 23 18:52 |
|---|
| seller_ | because the gui depends of backend and the software runs TWO interfaces | Nov 23 18:52 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | riight. | Nov 23 18:53 |
|---|
| seller_ | The gui must not restrict the communication over parameters to the backend | Nov 23 18:53 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | well the point is | Nov 23 18:53 |
|---|
| seller_ | The GUI is free to communicate with the library directly | Nov 23 18:53 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | if you wanted to enable the user to perform all operations possible in a gui for such easy thing as... say wpa_supplicant | Nov 23 18:54 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | you'd create something totally unusable | Nov 23 18:54 |
|---|
| seller_ | This approach is better | Nov 23 18:55 |
|---|
| seller_ | more fast | Nov 23 18:55 |
|---|
| seller_ | and more responsive | Nov 23 18:55 |
|---|
| *PetoKraus facepalms | Nov 23 18:55 |
| seller_ | Interface and functionality distinction | Nov 23 18:55 |
|---|
| seller_ | CLI indepedent | Nov 23 18:56 |
|---|
| seller_ | For example ,there a project called CLS where all communication is done | Nov 23 18:57 |
|---|
| seller_ | through a simple API for compression libraries | Nov 23 18:57 |
|---|
| seller_ | There's no need to use the zip backend for Ark open zip files | Nov 23 18:57 |
|---|
| seller_ | All communication is done througs libs | Nov 23 18:58 |
|---|
| seller_ | Using a good API | Nov 23 18:58 |
|---|
| seller_ | is more fast and does not run 2 interfaces | Nov 23 18:58 |
|---|
| seller_ | a bit risky,but not so much | Nov 23 18:59 |
|---|
| seller_ | http://encode.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=182 | Nov 23 19:00 |
|---|
| seller_ | There are another problem | Nov 23 19:00 |
|---|
| seller_ | lack of internationalization testers | Nov 23 19:01 |
|---|
| seller_ | For example, | Nov 23 19:02 |
|---|
| seller_ | I was using Fedora 9 but a lot of software was not translated | Nov 23 19:02 |
|---|
| seller_ | And the software have inclued translations | Nov 23 19:02 |
|---|
| seller_ | but The systems fails to install the correct translation | Nov 23 19:02 |
|---|
| seller_ | There are more problems but I will say someday | Nov 23 19:04 |
|---|
| seller_ | PetoKraus: Did you understand? | Nov 23 19:04 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i don't really care, sorry :/ | Nov 23 19:04 |
|---|
| seller_ | I'm not a troll | Nov 23 19:04 |
|---|
| seller_ | Why? | Nov 23 19:05 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | put it down somewhere, like an essay, and send it to my email - peter.kraus@member.fsf.org - i'll reply. | Nov 23 19:05 |
|---|
| seller_ | OK | Nov 23 19:06 |
|---|
| seller_ | What you don't reply now? | Nov 23 19:08 |
|---|
| trmanco | http://www.codefree-mag.org/about.html | Nov 23 19:09 |
|---|
| trmanco | PetoKraus, you are Peter Kraus? | Nov 23 19:09 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | trmanco: not the austrian actor, obviously | Nov 23 19:09 |
|---|
| trmanco | yes, I know | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | *german | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | trmanco: why? | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| trmanco | I think I saw you on facebook, remember the boycott novell cause? | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | yes, joined it | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| trmanco | I've seen you there | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| trmanco | yeah | Nov 23 19:10 |
|---|
| seller_ | Well , I will say another problem | Nov 23 19:11 |
|---|
| seller_ | In Linux there's a not separation in what is The System and what is Apps | Nov 23 19:12 |
|---|
| seller_ | For example in the windows ,the start Button will NEVER disappear | Nov 23 19:13 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it can, if you replace the shell | Nov 23 19:13 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it depends how you define operating system | Nov 23 19:13 |
|---|
| seller_ | In linux ,kde will disappear if some app conflicts with KDE | Nov 23 19:13 |
|---|
| seller_ | If you remove mono ,ubuntu will disappear | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | for me an operating system is set of code which enables me to work... | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i'd say applications are part of the operating system | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| seller_ | But look | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | others may argue that operating system is just the kernel | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | or minimal development platform (build-essential) | Nov 23 19:14 |
|---|
| seller_ | Windowz wll never permit some casual app remove the start button | Nov 23 19:15 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | hmm, ever heard of headless W2k3 servers ? | Nov 23 19:15 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | they don't have gui AT ALL | Nov 23 19:15 |
|---|
| seller_ | I know | Nov 23 19:15 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | and windows WILL permit "some casual app" to remove the start button from the display. | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| seller_ | But the system must separate what is application and what is system application | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | why do you think so? | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it's old concept, this separation | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| seller_ | But the difference is | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | i am not gonna say bad, deprecated, or useless, but it's old (i don't like the idea of "the cloud OS" either) | Nov 23 19:16 |
|---|
| seller_ | windowz does not permit the app conflict with the start button | Nov 23 19:17 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | it does... there are mac skins for XP | Nov 23 19:17 |
|---|
| seller_ | if app conflicts with the start button ,windowz forbids the app | Nov 23 19:18 |
|---|
| seller_ | Linux not | Nov 23 19:18 |
|---|
| PetoKraus | http://www.boxshots.org/screenies/5022.png | Nov 23 19:19 |
|---|
