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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 22nd, 2009 - Part 2



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schestowitzJust for the future, let me check some stufff...Apr 22 15:31
schestowitzI see he's citing the MS/Apple-sponsored liesApr 22 15:31
trmancoyeahApr 22 15:32
schestowitz"Microsoft pub will be pulling pints after all"  By Steven Musil , Published: 16 April 2009 11:27 BST http://www.silicon.com/retaila...Apr 22 15:32
schestowitzOh waitApr 22 15:32
schestowitzAllThingsD?Apr 22 15:33
schestowitzThat's a SHILApr 22 15:33
schestowitzAha.Apr 22 15:33
schestowitzhttp://www.silicon.com/retailan...Apr 22 15:33
schestowitzOops.Apr 22 15:33
schestowitzhttp://voices.allthingsd.com/tag/...Apr 22 15:33
schestowitzOh, wait... they just import from CNETApr 22 15:33
schestowitzNever mindApr 22 15:33
schestowitzBut AllThingsD is part of the Mossberg GangApr 22 15:34
trmancomsofties workingApr 22 15:34
schestowitzVery pro-Microsoft and big business (WSJ)Apr 22 15:34
schestowitzSee the tags on the pageApr 22 15:34
schestowitz"Eric Savitz" is thereApr 22 15:34
schestowitzMicrosoft shillApr 22 15:35
schestowitzAlso "Barrons"Apr 22 15:35
schestowitzBIG Microsoft shill.Apr 22 15:35
schestowitzBiggest tags thereApr 22 15:35
schestowitzSo they like to quote similar circlesApr 22 15:35
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schestowitzThere's ome Obama stuff thereApr 22 15:35
schestowitzAnd YahooApr 22 15:35
schestowitzI hate her coverage of Yahoo (what's her name again? I forgot)Apr 22 15:36
schestowitzSwisherApr 22 15:36
schestowitzThat's it, right?Apr 22 15:36
schestowitzIt's like she's playing along with the Slog against Yahoo!Apr 22 15:36
schestowitzAnd Mossberg chit-chats with Bill Gates. We have some E-mails between them...Apr 22 15:36
trmancoMozilla update quashes nine bugs: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0...Apr 22 15:40
trmancoI saw a lot of news sites reporting 12 when the correct number is 9Apr 22 15:40
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schestowitztrmanco: broken telephone chainApr 22 15:49
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BalroghehApr 22 15:52
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BalrogI'm tired of people defending windows because 'it works for me' and ooxml because it's pushing toward 'a standard'Apr 22 15:52
schestowitzNovell is in bad shape right now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/22...Apr 22 15:53
schestowitzOOXML is not used by anyoneApr 22 15:53
schestowitzNot even MicrosoftApr 22 15:53
schestowitzMicrosoft has some binary program that produce MSOOXMLApr 22 15:53
schestowitzThat's not OOXMLApr 22 15:53
schestowitzPeople should use STANDARDSApr 22 15:53
schestowitzlike ODFApr 22 15:53
Balrogthey're saying that 'everyone uses it' :(Apr 22 15:54
schestowitzAnd worry not, Balrog, Microsoft is becoming feeble, so the pain may be near. Will take time to CLEAN UP the mess though (zombies, legacy formats, skills people get)Apr 22 15:54
Balrogcertainly.Apr 22 15:55
schestowitzBalrog: in Russia, many people drive LadaApr 22 15:55
Balrog?Apr 22 15:57
Balrogpeople like this keep MS going.Apr 22 15:57
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schestowitzAnother reason to dislike the "Charity Killer": Intel Linux Driver Kills The Netbook Experience < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n... >Apr 22 15:58
schestowitzBalrog: you mean, the OEMsApr 22 15:58
schestowitzCigarette companies use similar business tacticsApr 22 15:59
BalrogOEM's too. also people fooled into believing that windows is good, and what ms does is goodApr 22 15:59
Balrogand that the alternatives suckApr 22 15:59
schestowitzLinus is doing it again: calling Linux "LINUS": http://lkml.org/lkml/20...Apr 22 16:00
Balrogheh, typoApr 22 16:00
schestowitzSecond time in a month (in the headline)Apr 22 16:00
Balrogschestowitz: Office 08 for mac has no ribbonApr 22 16:15
Balrogit's bloated though, but MS took out VBAApr 22 16:15
schestowitzI see....Apr 22 16:24
schestowitzWhy no Ribb0n?Apr 22 16:24
schestowitzDoes it have Strup0n?Apr 22 16:24
schestowitziRibbon :-)Apr 22 16:24
Balrogno, they left the menu-based systemApr 22 16:25
Balrogremember the apple HIG :)Apr 22 16:25
Balrogthat's what MS copied (mostly) in the first place (Windows)Apr 22 16:25
Balrogabout OOXML windows / mac; I haven't seen such problemsApr 22 16:29
Balrogbut then again, I don't use itApr 22 16:29
schestowitzMiguel is recommending Microsoft books in his blog: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/...Apr 22 16:29
schestowitzThis guy is insaneApr 22 16:29
BalroghehApr 22 16:29
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schestowitzThe Wiki being in the front now < http://boycottnovell.com/ > is reason to organise it faster and ensure visitors return to it... if only I had the timeApr 22 16:44
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schestowitzResponse to Linus-rc3: "It was suspected for some time, and now it's official.Linus does upgrade himself." http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/4/22/89 http://boycottnovell.com/2009...Apr 22 16:46
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BalrogECIS article on slashdotApr 22 16:47
schestowitztrmanco: did Gregg Keizer seed the 12 (4 critical) #? It's in IDGApr 22 16:48
schestowitzBalrog: which one do they cite?Apr 22 16:48
schestowitzBalrog: which copy?Apr 22 16:48
BalrogPJApr 22 16:48
schestowitzOKApr 22 16:48
schestowitzGoodApr 22 16:48
trmancoI don't know who Gregg isApr 22 16:48
Balroghttp://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=...Apr 22 16:48
schestowitzI was going to do an HTML version of it myselfApr 22 16:48
schestowitzGlad that Grokaw did thatApr 22 16:49
BalrogPJ has an HTML versionApr 22 16:49
Balrog(grokalw)Apr 22 16:49
schestowitzLots of work cause of their layoff (footnotes)Apr 22 16:49
Balroggroklaw *Apr 22 16:49
schestowitz*layout, not layopffsApr 22 16:49
Balrogyes.Apr 22 16:49
schestowitztrmanco: security coverage comes from him. Usually exaggeratedApr 22 16:49
Balrogwhat do you think of it?Apr 22 16:49
trmancoah okApr 22 16:49
schestowitzBalrog: I saw it last weekApr 22 16:49
schestowitzSomeone mailed it to meApr 22 16:49
schestowitzI put some stuff about it in BNApr 22 16:50
schestowitzAnd mentioned it in BN this morning tooApr 22 16:50
schestowitzConcise summary. Not complete, similar to COmes petition.Apr 22 16:50
schestowitzAlmost the same structure tooApr 22 16:50
Balrogfor it to be complete, it would probably have to be 100s of pagesApr 22 16:50
schestowitzBut Comes didn't have much about LinuxApr 22 16:50
Balrogwhere is the Comes petition?Apr 22 16:50
schestowitzThw WikiApr 22 16:50
schestowitzI did it manually: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.ph...Apr 22 16:51
BalrogI see.Apr 22 16:55
Balrogdo you think this ECIS paper will cause anything to happen?Apr 22 16:55
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trmancoI'll brbApr 22 17:07
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EruaranhelloApr 22 17:25
EruaranAnyone been reading Groklaw ?Apr 22 17:25
Balrogyes. why?Apr 22 17:26
EruaranECIS Provides A History of Microsoft's AntiCompetitive BehaviorApr 22 17:26
Eruarannice to seeApr 22 17:26
schestowitz"Euro MPs have voted overwhelmingly to cut the cost of texting and using the internet on mobiles abroad." http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/h...Apr 22 17:28
schestowitzEruaran: I liked PJ's annotation of it, but I saw the document last weekApr 22 17:28
EruaranI only just happened upon it tonightApr 22 17:29
schestowitzSee text in http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/1...Apr 22 17:29
EruaranI think I glanced at that one at work but didn't get around to reading it properlyApr 22 17:31
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schestowitzAnother application that many Windows users love has just been ported to GNU/Linux: http://www.prlog.org/10221243-foxit-s...Apr 22 17:49
Balrognot FOSS thoughApr 22 17:51
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EruaranmehApr 22 17:55
EruaranI'll use OkularApr 22 17:55
Carl_Rover2k12hehApr 22 17:55
MinceRi thought there already was foxit reader for linuxApr 22 17:59
MinceRbut it was unusableApr 22 17:59
amarsh04I can't understand why Okular does so many hundreds of stat64 calls on start-upApr 22 17:59
MinceRwhat files does it do them on?Apr 22 18:00
amarsh04I'll give it another spin and let you knowApr 22 18:04
amarsh04besides startup files, a lot of fonts, iconsApr 22 18:07
amarsh04thousands of calls on startupApr 22 18:08
amarsh044392 calls on one startup, 2538 on a later one where they fixed a libraryApr 22 18:08
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MinceRone call per file?Apr 22 18:13
MinceRhm, are you running it from kde?Apr 22 18:13
MinceRif not, it might start some daemons and build ksycoca and stuff like thatApr 22 18:13
MinceR(though i don't know how kde4 changed that)Apr 22 18:14
amarsh04yes, from kdeApr 22 18:15
Balrogschestowitz: can you put more stuff in ogg? My flash plugin is flaky here.Apr 22 18:15
schestowitzBalrog: sureApr 22 18:15
schestowitzBut I can't do long vidsApr 22 18:15
schestowitzLike LinusApr 22 18:15
Balrogbecause of hosting?Apr 22 18:15
schestowitzAlso backupApr 22 18:15
schestowitzMy backups are already 3GB each dumpApr 22 18:16
Balrogyou could decrease the bitrate to like 400, I suppose, and set up an exclusions list (or put such videos in an excluded directory)Apr 22 18:16
schestowitzLimit on account is not an issue. We have tend of gigsApr 22 18:16
Balrogtheora-thusnelda puts out higher-quality oggs at lower bitratesApr 22 18:16
schestowitzBackups include public_htmlApr 22 18:16
schestowitzThere's no way to exclude it, not that I know ofApr 22 18:17
Balrogwhat about using a symlink?Apr 22 18:17
Balrogwill backing up copy the symlink or traverse the directory structure?Apr 22 18:17
schestowitzDigg Tries to Put DiggBar Controversy to Bed < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/... >. That site is still going?Apr 22 18:18
schestowitzBalrog: I haven't triedApr 22 18:18
Balrogschestowitz: Miguel de Icaza did say things about GnoteApr 22 18:19
Balroghttp://www.figuiere.net/hub/blo...Apr 22 18:19
Balrogread the commentsApr 22 18:19
schestowitzCore MySpace Executive Team “Definitely Out.” Expect Announcement Soon. < http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/21/core... > It's Mur[der]DOCH!Apr 22 18:19
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Balrogthey were closed pretty quickly ...Apr 22 18:19
schestowitzIt's not his blog, Balrog Apr 22 18:19
BalrogI'll be back later.Apr 22 18:19
Balrogno, but he made some comments on that blogApr 22 18:19
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schestowitz@miguel: "Frankly, I believe you sold out. So FSCK you." (from Rex)Apr 22 18:20
schestowitz"The problem is in the patents. When Microsoft signs, in blood, that it will not sue anybody implementing or using any of its patents that might be in mono, then I'll give it some consideration. However, given your buddy Balmer's continuing diatribes and hatred for that virus, Linux, I'll steer clear of the obvious traps, like mono.Apr 22 18:20
schestowitz"Apr 22 18:20
schestowitzhub: "Enough. Comments closed."Apr 22 18:21
Balrogheh yeah,Apr 22 18:21
MinceRblood isn't legally bindingApr 22 18:22
schestowitzSining with blood may beApr 22 18:26
schestowitz*signingApr 22 18:26
schestowitzSteveb and migueldi: blood brothasApr 22 18:27
_Hicham_Miguel de Icaza have signed with blood with MSApr 22 18:30
EruaranAnakin de IcazaApr 22 18:32
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schestowitzMaplin gone insane http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/i...Apr 22 18:41
schestowitzSouth Carolina Court Awards $1.8 Million Libel Judgment Against Blogger < http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/200... > UK libel law is the worst.Apr 22 18:45
schestowitzBig O'brothama: Judge to Rule on Domestic Spying < http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2... >Apr 22 18:49
schestowitzTaser Sues Second Life Virtual World Creator Over Gun Sales  < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p... >Apr 22 18:54
schestowitzNSA Chief: 'We Do Not Want to Run Cyber Security' < http://blog.wired.com/27bstro... > Just get rid of backdoor-enabled software.Apr 22 18:57
tessier_schestowitz: I don't want them to run it either.Apr 22 18:58
tessier_We need a public key infrastructure.Apr 22 18:58
tessier_We need signed software packages and some accountability.Apr 22 18:58
tessier_And NOT a centralized infrastructure.Apr 22 18:58
schestowitzGood riddance: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Adw... (Adware Firm Zango Shuts Doors)Apr 22 18:58
tessier_We need GPG style web of trust.Apr 22 18:58
schestowitztessier: yes, we talked about itr beforeApr 22 18:58
schestowitzThey already abuse survellenceApr 22 18:59
schestowitzFrom national security to sabotaging friendly protests for instanceApr 22 18:59
schestowitzDid you hear about the UK protest being foiled by the police and organisers arrested?Apr 22 18:59
schestowitzEnvironment activistsApr 22 18:59
schestowitzBotnet 'ensnares government PCs' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/te... >Apr 22 19:00
schestowitzHow integrated iSOFT  is with Microsoft. I know they are connected, but just how much?Apr 22 19:01
schestowitzMicrosoft and its legions of partners are trying to rip apart systems before FOSS takes over: http://www.itwire.com/conten...Apr 22 19:01
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schestowitzOld new: man leads nature to extinction: Millions pledged to stop bee deaths < http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/sc... >Apr 22 19:11
schestowitzLinuxToday hit by Microsoft shills? Does Groklaw get them too? It complained about trolls. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto...Apr 22 19:21
schestowitzMicrosoft find new excuses for UnTrusted computing (Windows lockin): http://www.internetnews.com/secur...Apr 22 19:23
schestowitzMicrosoft created this problem in the first placeApr 22 19:24
schestowitztessier: this might interest you: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7308/ (Linux Don't Need No Stinkin' ZFS: BTRFS Intro & Benchmarks)Apr 22 19:29
tessier_schestowitz: Cool, thanks. I'm really looking forward to btrfs maturing.Apr 22 19:32
schestowitzWhat will Oracle do with zfs?Apr 22 19:37
schestowitzWhat about Solaris and OS X having some of it? And why would Oracle want to pay to maintain two such FSs?Apr 22 19:38
schestowitzNSA at RSA: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv... Apr 22 19:38
schestowitzTerror! < http://sierracharlie.wordpres... >Apr 22 19:39
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schestowitz"Border patrol alleged to have beat up and tazed pastor, smashed his car, on US soil" < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/1... >Apr 22 19:41
mib_3xw0n8guess you read already about the 300m MS bribe for Russia?Apr 22 19:42
mib_3xw0n8incredible... they still think that will help themApr 22 19:43
mib_3xw0n8oops have to logon with corrwct nickApr 22 19:43
schestowitz"Now a fresh post-mortem examination has found he died of abdominal bleeding [after police attack]" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8004222.stmApr 22 19:43
mib_2kldw9 mib_3xw0n8 mib_b68jbw mib_bs9bo5 mib_ey0o48 mib_nhm138 mib_vfvtjy MinceR Apr 22 19:43
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schestowitzHeyApr 22 19:43
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mib_24m6zadang i want to relogin with my real nick but cant even when I delete all cookies....Apr 22 19:46
mib_24m6zaanyway, MS will get tought a lesson in RussiaApr 22 19:47
mib_24m6zasimply put they will take the money but go on their wayApr 22 19:47
schestowitzYesApr 22 19:47
schestowitzRussia shows Microsoft's weaknessApr 22 19:48
mib_24m6zaI am quite sure this 300m are one of the worst investments every of BallmerApr 22 19:48
schestowitzIt can't make people payApr 22 19:48
schestowitzSo it dumpsApr 22 19:48
mib_24m6zamy only concern is that the 300m are no cash but some wortless Windows copies or trainign classesApr 22 19:48
schestowitzThey did something similar in other countries like IndiaApr 22 19:48
schestowitzYesApr 22 19:48
schestowitzIt's worthless to themApr 22 19:48
mib_24m6zaleaving a steaming pile of cash?Apr 22 19:48
schestowitzSee the link that says "Under no circumstance lose to Linux"Apr 22 19:49
schestowitzIf Linux wins they get $0Apr 22 19:49
mib_24m6zathat was Munich... my home town :-)Apr 22 19:49
schestowitzSo they might as well give Widnwos+office for $0Apr 22 19:49
schestowitzBasically, here's how it goesApr 22 19:49
schestowitzOne might say, Linux has no chanceApr 22 19:49
schestowitzBecause Microsoft competes with $0 WindowsApr 22 19:49
schestowitzBut that's nonsenseApr 22 19:50
schestowitzBecause sooner or later that becomes the price of WIndowsApr 22 19:50
schestowitzSee the price of XP on subnotebooksApr 22 19:50
schestowitzAbout $5Apr 22 19:50
schestowitzbecause of LINUXApr 22 19:50
mib_24m6zaMS is actually paying for using Windows - said that already a 100 times... Asus speaker confirmed this in GermanyApr 22 19:50
schestowitzSo they won't be profitale for much longerApr 22 19:50
mib_24m6zathey charge 15 USD for Win XP Home but pay a per unit kickbackApr 22 19:50
mib_24m6zafor every netbook soldApr 22 19:50
schestowitzBallmer has just taken a cheap shot at Oracle's purchase of Sun saying it's a sw company buying a hw companyApr 22 19:50
schestowitzHe said MS would never do such a thingApr 22 19:51
schestowitzBut!Apr 22 19:51
mib_24m6zawhich is higher than the licence feeApr 22 19:51
schestowitzTheir sw becomes worthlessApr 22 19:51
schestowitzIn the cost senseApr 22 19:51
schestowitzSo they tried to sell hw without successApr 22 19:51
schestowitzNotably Zune and XboxApr 22 19:51
schestowitzThey lost ?$billionsApr 22 19:51
mib_24m6zahey - I own a MS mouse - the best MS product I ever used :-)Apr 22 19:51
mib_24m6za mib_2kldw9 mib_bs9bo5 mib_ey0o48 mib_nhm138 mib_vfvtjy Apr 22 19:51
schestowitzmib_24m6za: can you get me that link?Apr 22 19:52
schestowitzEven in Deutsch?Apr 22 19:52
mib_24m6zayes they are shoveling money in thewir commercial grave so to say :-9Apr 22 19:52
schestowitzI need to use thatApr 22 19:52
schestowitzmib_24m6za: please please find me that referenceApr 22 19:52
schestowitzFrom ASUSApr 22 19:52
schestowitzI'd re-cite it a lot when the issue comes upApr 22 19:52
mib_24m6zalet me look this up it is buried somewhere here http://www.eee-pc.de/Apr 22 19:52
mib_24m6zaor should be thereApr 22 19:52
mib_24m6zawas a user who mailed Asus why no Linux netbooksApr 22 19:53
schestowitzThat would change the whole way we think about this issueApr 22 19:53
schestowitzThat's literally buying one's market shareApr 22 19:53
mib_24m6zaand they answered very frankly cause they get kickbacks :-)Apr 22 19:53
schestowitzIt's also antitrust issue (crime)Apr 22 19:53
schestowitzWhich ought to be used by peopleApr 22 19:53
mib_24m6zawell but even if i find this post again (it is buried in a comment), it is not enough to proof anythingApr 22 19:54
mib_24m6zaI will look to for this comment, but it is not enough to make a case around it - would have done this already :-)Apr 22 19:55
mib_24m6zabut fits in the pictureApr 22 19:55
schestowitzFor ref: Ballmer disses Oracle's decision to buy Sun < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... >Apr 22 19:56
mib_24m6za mib_2kldw9 mib_bs9bo5 mib_ey0o48 mib_nhm138 mib_vfvtjy Apr 22 19:56
schestowitzmib_24m6za: if you find it, I'll repost it many times in many places and make noise about it :-pApr 22 19:56
mib_24m6zaI try :-) good night, want to continue test Ubuntu 9.04 - very nice so far...Apr 22 19:58
MinceRi'd be surprised if ballmer didn't diss itApr 22 19:58
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schestowitzMinceR: "I've got my kids brainwashed: You don't use Google, and you don't use an iPod." Steve Ballmer (on CNN)Apr 22 20:00
MinceRindeedApr 22 20:00
MinceRand i'd agree with those things to some extent, but i know he forces them to use inferior alternatives.Apr 22 20:00
schestowitzThink: I've got my customers brainwashed. No Lunix or I f*g sue youApr 22 20:00
schestowitzThat chap of yours ought to have tossed hot goulash, not eggs. It has better range and covers more area on impactApr 22 20:02
schestowitzHow To Upgrade From Ext3 To Ext4 Without Formatting The Hard Disk < http://maketecheasier.com/how-to-upgrade-from-ex... >Apr 22 20:02
schestowitzHow To Upgrade From Ext3 To Ext4 Without Losing Many Tiny Files ;-pApr 22 20:03
MinceRhe should have tossed some powerful acid or baseApr 22 20:03
MinceRor a grenadeApr 22 20:03
MinceRthe world would be better without ballmerApr 22 20:03
amarsh04where I used to work I read all the materials safety data sheets - smallest lethal dose of caustic soda was 5 gramsApr 22 20:04
amarsh04the site used to have concentrated cyanide alsoApr 22 20:05
schestowitzTuxMachines ought to publish items critical of Microsoft more often. Linux sites should not be shy to show what the single most vicious company is doing to stifle GNU/Linux adoption.Apr 22 20:05
amarsh04but what they really warned us about for site safety was molten aluminium trapping waterApr 22 20:05
schestowitz"concentrated cyanide" kind of like "big dinosaur"Apr 22 20:06
amarsh04as in solid form... now that site only obtains it and uses it in weak solutionApr 22 20:07
schestowitzFirefox 3.0.9 security and stability release now available < https://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/inde... >. No update from 'Driva yet.Apr 22 20:07
MinceRthe 'Driva at da 'Wheel? ;)Apr 22 20:08
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schestowitzhttp://pclinuxos2007.blogspot... "PS: We have installed PCLinuxOS 2007 and 2009.1 in our office desktops after the disappointing experience with Fedora. There has been no glitches so far."Apr 22 20:09
mib_2kldw9 mib_b68jbw mib_bs9bo5 mib_ey0o48 mib_nhm138 mib_vfvtjy MinceR Apr 22 20:09
schestowitzthe driva is a "man"Apr 22 20:09
schestowitzCOnnectivaApr 22 20:09
schestowitzI hate people who are like that: http://www.workswithu.com/2009/04/21/w...Apr 22 20:10
MinceRperhaps there should be _another_ video about the practical reasonsApr 22 20:16
MinceRgnu/linux certainly has a practical edge, tooApr 22 20:16
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mib_2kldw9 mib_b68jbw mib_ey0o48 mib_nhm138 mib_vfvtjy MinceR Apr 22 20:18
schestowitzMinceR: yes, the two are not mutually exclusiveApr 22 20:18
schestowitzBesides, some people fancy the idea of being in control, esp. now with DRM, UAC, etc.Apr 22 20:18
Balrogmaybe we'll see gnu/solaris soon, and workable (not just nexenta) ... depending on what Oracle does with the code...Apr 22 20:19
BalrogDebian already has a 'gnu/FreeBSD' distroApr 22 20:19
schestowitzSouth Korean Economic Blogger Acquitted (For Now) < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... >Apr 22 20:20
schestowitzBalrog: why would Oracle develop two competing products?Apr 22 20:20
schestowitzIt already has Unbreakable (ripoff) and it works (well, RHEL works)Apr 22 20:20
BalrogI know. But most Oracle installs are on Solaris, AFAIKApr 22 20:24
Balrogand there may be some good things in the Solaris codeApr 22 20:24
schestowitzNope, LinuxApr 22 20:25
schestowitzLike 80% IIRCApr 22 20:25
schestowitzOr maybe I neglect Windows hereApr 22 20:25
schestowitzSearch their Web site, you'll get figsApr 22 20:25
schestowitzHad Linux had advertising, it would rave a lot more about companies like SAP, Oracle, Google, etc. deploying on GNU/LinuxApr 22 20:26
schestowitzMarketing MATTERApr 22 20:26
schestowitzApple makes lots of noise with puny market share in several immature areasApr 22 20:26
schestowitzMS sells biz swApr 22 20:26
schestowitzIncluding server side like Excahnge that depends on desktop useApr 22 20:27
schestowitzThus it DUMPS to block Linux on the DESKTOPApr 22 20:27
schestowitzTo demoralise desktops devs in GNOME and KDEApr 22 20:27
BalrogApple was working with Sun recently. They have been using Java and Solaris for the backendApr 22 20:28
Balrogand ZFS, and dtrace, and allApr 22 20:28
schestowitzHmm..Apr 22 20:33
schestowitzMand' has mysql update, but no ff3.09 yetApr 22 20:33
schestowitz*3.0.9Apr 22 20:33
schestowitzBalrog: yes, I know. Sucks to be Apple right now ;-)Apr 22 20:33
schestowitzBalrog: I suppose you saw it, but someone says that "Microsoft Pays ASUS Kickbacks to Block GNU/Linux." Will EU Commission Step in? Proof soon....Apr 22 20:37
zoobab01Microsoft Pays ASUS Kickbacks to Block GNU/Linux = evidence?Apr 22 20:38
BalrogI'm sure Oracle will work together with Apple ...Apr 22 20:38
zoobab01all those deals under the table are secretApr 22 20:38
schestowitzOne of my fav games:http://www.dzone.com/links/rss/sarien_... (Leisure Suit Larry in Javascript, and it's open source!)Apr 22 20:44
schestowitzzoobab01: I'm waiting for the evidenceApr 22 20:44
schestowitzA guy from Germany saw it in a siteApr 22 20:44
schestowitzSupposedly a letter from ASUS or E-mail replyApr 22 20:44
schestowitzHard to verify though. Scroll upApr 22 20:44
schestowitzBalrog: Oracle and Apple have things in common and both are vicious tooApr 22 20:45
*schestowitz wonder what OS Ellison users. Dell has a Linux laptopsApr 22 20:45
schestowitz*laptopApr 22 20:45
Balrogyes, but one targets the consumer end, the other targets the server endApr 22 20:45
BalrogApple does dabble into servers, but that's a very small percentage of their salesApr 22 20:46
schestowitzMore abuse of the term "open-source": http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRel... They pollute feeds with inappropriate terminology.Apr 22 20:47
schestowitzBalrog: does Apple even (still) advertise servers?Apr 22 20:47
schestowitzThey failed badly for all I can twellApr 22 20:47
schestowitzSame with Apple's TV attempt (PVR)Apr 22 20:47
schestowitzApple has many products that bombedApr 22 20:48
BalrogApple TV was a 'hobby' ... at least they called it that themselvesApr 22 20:48
schestowitzGoogle alsoApr 22 20:48
Balrogit never was meant to sell wellApr 22 20:48
Balrog(and it's not a PVR)Apr 22 20:48
schestowitzBalrog: hehe. Hobby. That's what a person or company rather might call when something goes the wrong wayApr 22 20:48
schestowitzRemember Singularity?Apr 22 20:48
schestowitzMS: "it's just a research project"  *LOLApr 22 20:49
schestowitzBalrog: sure, sure... wasn't supposed to sell well?Apr 22 20:49
Balrogwell, did MS ever ship?Apr 22 20:49
schestowitzSo what do investors have to say about it ?Apr 22 20:49
schestowitzI'm just pulling your leg BTW :-)Apr 22 20:49
schestowitzBut it's PRApr 22 20:49
schestowitzThey always twist defeats to make them look benign, if not make them look like victoriesApr 22 20:50
schestowitzLike Microsoft getting dumped by DiggApr 22 20:50
schestowitzThey pretended nothing happenedApr 22 20:50
Balrogwell it wasn't a total failure (the apple TV)Apr 22 20:50
schestowitzAll the MS VPs jumping ship (almostApr 22 20:50
schestowitzMicrosoft spun this too as good newsApr 22 20:50
schestowitz"Wow! People get promoted now."Apr 22 20:50
schestowitzBalrog: at least Apple gives up earlyApr 22 20:51
schestowitzUnlike MicrosoftApr 22 20:51
schestowitzWatch the MSN money sinkApr 22 20:51
schestowitzor ZUNEApr 22 20:51
schestowitzOh, tah[sic] Zune !!1Apr 22 20:51
schestowitzThey still try to bring it back from the graveApr 22 20:51
schestowitzLike taking a 95 y-o for another kidney transplant from a teenage donorApr 22 20:52
Balrogheh, 'zune hd'Apr 22 20:52
Balrogbut it's too late nowApr 22 20:52
schestowitzMicrosoft has a real HUBRIS for APPLEApr 22 20:52
schestowitzIt'll never pull the plug on ZUNE without screamingApr 22 20:52
schestowitzIt's their prideApr 22 20:52
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schestowitzBalrog: haha.Apr 22 20:53
schestowitzThe Zune adsApr 22 20:53
schestowitzI forgot all about themApr 22 20:53
schestowitzLet me find..Apr 22 20:53
schestowitzHAHAHA. Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch...Apr 22 20:54
schestowitzMicrosoft uses a penis with legs to sell music playersApr 22 20:54
schestowitzCheck the commentsApr 22 20:55
schestowitzThat's quite some legacy for a dead product when it dieApr 22 20:55
schestowitz*diesApr 22 20:55
BalroghehApr 22 20:57
schestowitzit's odd to see Sun issuing press release after being bought:  Sun Microsystems and SAFEA Announce Open Source Collaboration to Benefit China's Higher Education < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s... >Apr 22 20:57
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schestowitzPaul Krill uses a troll headline: "Is Java as we know it doomed?"Apr 22 20:59
schestowitzOne of those "let's troll/provoke" headlines "but add quuestion mark.Apr 22 21:00
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trmancohttp://www.osor.eu/news/dk-mun...Apr 22 21:23
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schestowitztrmanco: thanks, I missed itApr 22 21:28
trmanco:) you're welcomeApr 22 21:28
schestowitzI should post some stuff to COLA. Stuffin' the trolls.Apr 22 21:29
trmancoheheApr 22 21:30
schestowitzzoobab01: http://techdirt.com/articl... http://blogs.uct.ac.za/blog/gray-a...Apr 22 21:31
tessier_Trolling the trolls is a waste of your time.Apr 22 21:32
tessier_COLA itself is pretty much a waste of time.Apr 22 21:32
tessier_The people who we might hope to influence do not read it.Apr 22 21:32
schestowitztessier: not trolling the trollsApr 22 21:33
schestowitzJust posting on-topic stuff thereApr 22 21:33
tessier_Is Java as we know it doomed?Apr 22 21:33
tessier_Oracle-Sun deal raises questions about future control of the open-source technologyApr 22 21:33
tessier_Open-source technology?Apr 22 21:33
schestowitzWhich upsets trolls who want to ruin and derail the placeApr 22 21:33
tessier_Where can I download the tgz?Apr 22 21:33
tessier_They have already ruined and derailed the place. Abandon it.Apr 22 21:33
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Balrogtessier_: which tgz?Apr 22 21:57
tessier_Balrog: The java tgzApr 22 21:57
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tessier_The one with the compiler, jvm, etc code in it.Apr 22 21:57
tessier_The one which a direct link could be pasted to if it was really open source softwareApr 22 21:58
Balrogyou mean openJDK (the one under gpl)?Apr 22 21:59
Balroghttp://download.java.net/... and http://download.java.net/openjdk/jdk6/Apr 22 22:00
Balrogyou need the source and the binary 'plugs' for the components that are not yet fossApr 22 22:00
Balrogthe binary 'plugs' are a tiny 60 K though.Apr 22 22:01
Balrog(the binary class is com/sun/tools/extractor)Apr 22 22:02
Balrogthat's all; everything else is GPL2Apr 22 22:02
Balrogtessier_: all right?Apr 22 22:02
tessier_uhApr 22 22:03
tessier_So can I or can't I get a usable system out of those?Apr 22 22:03
tessier_And are we granted patent licenses for any patents that might apply?Apr 22 22:03
Balrognot sure about patents. it's GPL v2Apr 22 22:03
tessier_Why doesn't Fedora and RHEL etc come with java as a package?Apr 22 22:04
Balrogopenjdk is available as a package in ubuntuApr 22 22:04
Balrog'openjdk-6-jre' for the JRE and 'openjdk-6-jdk' for the compiler and allApr 22 22:04
Balrogon Fedora 9 and newer it's java-1.6.0-openjdk and java-1.6.0-openjdk-develApr 22 22:05
Balrogsee http://openjdk.java.net/install/Apr 22 22:05
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wispygalaxyhello everyone :)Apr 22 22:21
schestowitzHowdyApr 22 22:22
wispygalaxyheyyy roy!Apr 22 22:22
BalroghiApr 22 22:22
wispygalaxysup balrog?Apr 22 22:22
BalrogI have a calc exam in 15 min. :(Apr 22 22:22
wispygalaxyoh geez :(Apr 22 22:22
wispygalaxygood luck!Apr 22 22:22
Balrogthanks :)Apr 22 22:22
schestowitzIs use of the Internet allowed?Apr 22 22:22
schestowitzHere's a thought...Apr 22 22:22
wispygalaxyyou're welcome :DApr 22 22:23
Balrog...where?Apr 22 22:23
schestowitzYou know open book exams?Apr 22 22:23
wispygalaxyyepApr 22 22:23
wispygalaxylove thoseApr 22 22:23
Balrogthis is a calc exam. math. no open book at allApr 22 22:23
schestowitzThey should do the same with the WebApr 22 22:23
Balrogno notes, nothingApr 22 22:23
schestowitzThe idea is that you have means and methodsApr 22 22:23
Balrogjust calcApr 22 22:23
schestowitzYou need to be educated to use the meansApr 22 22:23
schestowitzNot to memoriseApr 22 22:23
Balrogyeah, my programming class has open book examsApr 22 22:23
schestowitzEinstein said asomething along the lines of, "if I can look it up, I needn't remember it"Apr 22 22:23
Balrogyes.Apr 22 22:23
schestowitzAnd it's true in many aspects of our livesApr 22 22:23
schestowitzYou can use GoogleApr 22 22:23
wispygalaxyi had one in my AP economics class- but we could only bring in notes (not a textbook)Apr 22 22:24
schestowitzBut having no sufficient understanding won't help youApr 22 22:24
wispygalaxygoogle has everything these daysApr 22 22:24
schestowitzSame with programmingApr 22 22:24
schestowitzOn a PC with documentationApr 22 22:24
wispygalaxyRTFM hahaApr 22 22:24
schestowitzYou can stille examine to see programming techniquesApr 22 22:24
wispygalaxyno one has told me that yet hahaApr 22 22:24
schestowitzIt's funnt listening to radio showsApr 22 22:24
schestowitzWhere they have questions..Apr 22 22:24
schestowitzBecause Google is fast enough to allow cheatingApr 22 22:25
wispygalaxyeinstein never memorized his phone number, i thinkApr 22 22:25
schestowitzBut that's OKApr 22 22:25
wispygalaxygoogle saves the day!Apr 22 22:25
schestowitzThe way I see it, it's like fighting sharing or the NetApr 22 22:25
schestowitzThese days we have computersApr 22 22:25
schestowitzPeople need to be assumed to have them at examsApr 22 22:25
schestowitzNot crippled by taken off themApr 22 22:25
schestowitzwispygalaxy: I don't know my phone numbers, eitherApr 22 22:25
schestowitzI haven't known it for years (none of them)Apr 22 22:26
wispygalaxyreally?!?!Apr 22 22:26
schestowitzBut it's on my PalmApr 22 22:26
schestowitzWell, I never phone MYSELF,, so...Apr 22 22:26
wispygalaxyahhhh i seeApr 22 22:26
BalrogI know a few phone numbers. it's quite useful if your phone dies &c.Apr 22 22:26
wispygalaxyhahahaApr 22 22:26
schestowitzI need to remember it only to give it to othersApr 22 22:26
Balrogschestowitz: even a calc exam? here, not even calculators are allowedApr 22 22:26
schestowitzBalrog: I know phone #s, but not mineApr 22 22:26
schestowitzI remember codes and numbers visuallyApr 22 22:26
wispygalaxymy sister's address book on her cell phone is filled upApr 22 22:26
schestowitzLike paths on a dialApr 22 22:26
amarsh04one teacher I had at high school told of a student losing his exam paper amongst all the material he took in for an open book examApr 22 22:26
wispygalaxywhat a chatterbox!Apr 22 22:26
schestowitzSame with the password on the gym's lockerApr 22 22:26
amarsh04my only truly open book exam was engineering drawingApr 22 22:27
schestowitzI can't tell the number. I do it visually.Apr 22 22:27
wispygalaxyonce i was taking a standardized test in 10th grade and almost forgot my ID numberApr 22 22:27
wispygalaxyi just blanked outApr 22 22:27
BalroglolApr 22 22:27
wispygalaxyi know, why does that happen at the wrong time?!Apr 22 22:27
Balrogwell I'd better go. 1.5 hours, this is.Apr 22 22:27
schestowitzwispygalaxy: you have IDs?Apr 22 22:27
schestowitzYou mean SSN?Apr 22 22:27
Balrogof course. They don't use ssn hereApr 22 22:27
wispygalaxyi have a college ID, but you use it to swipeApr 22 22:27
amarsh04I can still remember being 61419L for year 12, and 810739V for universityApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxynope, no SSN here eitherApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxythat's cool, amarshApr 22 22:28
schestowitzamarsh04: they need to move on with the timesApr 22 22:28
Balrogtalk laterApr 22 22:28
schestowitzPeople have gadgetsApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxysee ya!Apr 22 22:28
schestowitzLike calculatorsApr 22 22:28
schestowitzNo abacus or such stuffApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxyhope you do well, balrog.  go get em!Apr 22 22:28
Balrogyeah, none of those things in calc exams ......Apr 22 22:28
Balrog:)Apr 22 22:28
schestowitzGood luck.Apr 22 22:28
Balrogthanks.Apr 22 22:28
amarsh04these exams were in the 1980s, I'm 45 nowApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxygraphing calcs are my friendApr 22 22:28
wispygalaxyi had AP calc tests 2 years agoApr 22 22:29
schestowitzamarsh04: a lot younger than my dad :--)Apr 22 22:29
BalrogI like ti89 :) ..... talk later.Apr 22 22:29
amarsh04all the best BalrogApr 22 22:29
wispygalaxybye for now!Apr 22 22:29
wispygalaxyi still have my good old ti-83. i use it a lot for finance classApr 22 22:29
amarsh04in year 12 the classroom had a TI59, I had a canon fx83Apr 22 22:30
wispygalaxynow i dont have to look up numbers in charts in back of the textbook, i just use my calculatorApr 22 22:30
wispygalaxycool, vintage electronicsApr 22 22:30
wispygalaxymy dad hangs onto his calculator from the early '70sApr 22 22:30
schestowitzI gave all mine awayApr 22 22:31
amarsh04at uni I had a casio fx702pApr 22 22:31
schestowitzMy Palm has a scientific caculatorApr 22 22:31
wispygalaxyroy, you are charitable haha. ;)Apr 22 22:31
schestowitzUnlikeiPhone, it also have *gasp* cut and pasteApr 22 22:31
amarsh04still glad that I missed slide rules but learned to use log booksApr 22 22:31
wispygalaxycut and paste FTWApr 22 22:31
schestowitzwispygalaxy: no, it was more like dumping it. Not a giftApr 22 22:31
wispygalaxywhenever i do research online, it helps a lot to cut n pasteApr 22 22:31
wispygalaxyand then paraphraseApr 22 22:31
wispygalaxyoh i see haha royApr 22 22:32
wispygalaxymy mom gives away a lot of our old clothes, believe me there were A LOT of it.  3 daughters in the house hahaApr 22 22:32
wispygalaxyslide rules- that sounds familiarApr 22 22:33
wispygalaxynever used it, thoughApr 22 22:33
schestowitzwispygalaxy: that defeats the purposeApr 22 22:34
schestowitzMashups are fine as they are with atteributionApr 22 22:34
schestowitzThe worst one can do IMHO is obfuscate sources and calsim them his/her ownApr 22 22:34
schestowitzThat defeats the point...Apr 22 22:34
schestowitzThink about how the Net enables Google to syndicate and string newsApr 22 22:34
wispygalaxygoogle news is helpfulApr 22 22:35
schestowitzLessig calls it "Remix"Apr 22 22:35
schestowitzIt's also common in videoApr 22 22:35
wispygalaxycoolApr 22 22:35
schestowitzBut then, here's a thought:Apr 22 22:35
schestowitzI heard it in several place and it's worth learningApr 22 22:35
wispygalaxythis is why i hate writing papers- too much info to lookup and organizeApr 22 22:35
schestowitzAll things we say (output) are aggregations of inputApr 22 22:35
schestowitzSome is natually not memorisedApr 22 22:36
wispygalaxylike a blenderApr 22 22:36
schestowitzBut it's internalisedApr 22 22:36
schestowitzWe then adopt speech patterns tooApr 22 22:36
schestowitzThis too gets blendedApr 22 22:36
wispygalaxyit's like a game of telephoneApr 22 22:36
schestowitzSo we 'copy' methods of talkingApr 22 22:36
schestowitzAs well as ideasApr 22 22:36
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schestowitzTeachers give us this knowledge for freeApr 22 22:36
wispygalaxyone sec roy- cell phoneApr 22 22:36
schestowitzWe aggregate/mash it up, then redo the knowledgeApr 22 22:36
schestowitzThat too is why patents are insaneApr 22 22:36
schestowitzThey merely built upon works of several othersApr 22 22:37
schestowitzHey, jose Apr 22 22:37
josehey.. (i won't stay long)Apr 22 22:37
schestowitzTHat RMS video was widely cited.Apr 22 22:37
schestowitzGot us 10gb of traffic yesterdayApr 22 22:37
tessier_Ah, it seems openjdk IS available in F10. And it comes with the browser plugin. FINALLY.Apr 22 22:37
josewhich rms video?Apr 22 22:37
schestowitztessier: yes, it doesApr 22 22:38
josehttp://www.linuxtoday.com/it_man...Apr 22 22:38
schestowitzIt was planned last yearApr 22 22:38
schestowitzUbuntu tooApr 22 22:38
schestowitzI think I showed you Sun's press release evenApr 22 22:38
josesee the comments in above linkApr 22 22:38
schestowitzjose: the video you commented onApr 22 22:38
amarsh04that reminds me, I still have to track down some information for rms after commenting on his blog posting on the Victorian bushfiresApr 22 22:38
schestowitzWith OggApr 22 22:38
schestowitzStallman on Beethoven in  GermanyApr 22 22:39
jose"foss can't be safer because everyone sees the code"Apr 22 22:39
joseokApr 22 22:39
josei really liked itApr 22 22:39
wispygalaxyhi joseApr 22 22:39
joseheyApr 22 22:40
wispygalaxyso you saw that rms vidApr 22 22:40
joseschestowitz, the comments are repetitive with two little themesApr 22 22:40
josebasically, secrets should be kept from attackers.. not from youApr 22 22:40
schestowitzjose: say hi to wispygalaxy. She too is USian :-)Apr 22 22:41
schestowitz( Mincer says "usian".. sounds funny)Apr 22 22:41
wispygalaxyhahaha!Apr 22 22:41
joseand you want to use weapons and armor that have withstood the test of fire even if you then get chicken and hide in the shadowApr 22 22:41
wispygalaxynorth american, to be exact :)Apr 22 22:41
schestowitzSounds like Eurasian :-) 2984...Apr 22 22:41
schestowitz*2984...Apr 22 22:41
schestowitz*1984...Apr 22 22:41
wispygalaxy1984Apr 22 22:41
schestowitzI can't type it rightApr 22 22:41
wispygalaxyawwwwwwApr 22 22:41
joseschestowitz, "hey" means the same thing as "hi"Apr 22 22:41
schestowitzjose: I know :-)Apr 22 22:42
schestowitzJust thought I'd introduce anywayApr 22 22:42
wispygalaxyremember the never-ending war in that bookApr 22 22:42
MinceRwell, "american" is incorrectApr 22 22:42
wispygalaxythe party is always at war with someoneApr 22 22:42
MinceRthere's more to america than just the usaApr 22 22:42
joseah, now I remember you, wispygalaxyApr 22 22:42
schestowitzYes, got to keep the military moving money and armsApr 22 22:42
MinceRso i say usian ;)Apr 22 22:42
wispygalaxycool joseApr 22 22:42
MinceR(i didn't invent that word, btw)Apr 22 22:42
wispygalaxyhey mincerApr 22 22:42
schestowitzAnd the constructyion going too... mending what's beign destoryedApr 22 22:42
MinceRhay wispygalaxyApr 22 22:42
joseyou were talking with some others and ubuntu distro and i think kde was what you were commenting onApr 22 22:42
schestowitzLike in Iraq... bomb bridged.., then pay billions to Halliburton et al to pretend they rebuild themApr 22 22:43
schestowitzThe economics of warApr 22 22:43
schestowitzBroken Windows threoryApr 22 22:43
wispygalaxyabout kde, yes i remember thatApr 22 22:43
schestowitzA shame that people die too in this vicious cycleApr 22 22:43
wispygalaxythere needs to be an excuse to control people, so say that there is an enemyApr 22 22:43
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watc...Apr 22 22:44
schestowitzwispygalaxy: the enemy is insideApr 22 22:44
schestowitzNot outsideApr 22 22:44
wispygalaxyi meant to put the enemy in quotesApr 22 22:44
schestowitzBut outside you can 1) exploit 2) use to distract the population, directing dissent outwardsApr 22 22:44
schestowitz*exploit as in use their resourcesApr 22 22:44
schestowitzWhich they have no right to, despite living on tiop of them (mineral, oil, etc)Apr 22 22:45
wispygalaxyi know we are being shafted by the guys up topApr 22 22:45
schestowitzwispygalaxy: no enemyApr 22 22:45
schestowitzLike in the bookApr 22 22:45
schestowitzThe "Eurasian enemy"Apr 22 22:45
schestowitzAlways sying enemyApr 22 22:45
schestowitzTo daemoniseApr 22 22:45
wispygalaxymind control via the manipulation of wordsApr 22 22:45
schestowitzUS general calls adversariesApr 22 22:45
schestowitzWhich is a synonymApr 22 22:45
schestowitz*call itApr 22 22:45
wispygalaxyeuphemismApr 22 22:45
wispygalaxyspeaking of 1984, we had to create a skit depicting a scene from the book.  it was supposed to be a serious project, but everyone's presentations were so hilariousApr 22 22:47
wispygalaxyi played winston's girlfriend, if i remember exactly lolApr 22 22:47
wispygalaxyhave you read 'animal farm', roy?Apr 22 22:48
schestowitzwispygalaxy: nope.Apr 22 22:52
schestowitzNot the bookApr 22 22:52
wispygalaxymy sister got the movie, but i never got around to seeing itApr 22 22:52
wispygalaxyit looks scary, actuallyApr 22 22:52
schestowitzwinston's girlfriend: winston's girlfriendApr 22 22:52
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...Apr 22 22:53
schestowitzNSFW :-|Apr 22 22:53
wispygalaxyLOL ;)Apr 22 22:53
wispygalaxyare you going to try out ubuntu tomorrow?Apr 22 22:54
amarsh04just listening to rms videoes now... works alright (although not in sync) on this PII-266Apr 22 22:54
wispygalaxyi wish obama hired himApr 22 22:55
schestowitzOBAMAA is w/ the MAFIAAApr 22 22:55
schestowitz(and Biden's MAFIAA)Apr 22 22:55
schestowitzNader might pick someone like RMS, who endorses himApr 22 22:56
schestowitzKucinich maybe tooApr 22 22:56
wispygalaxyi voted for nader when we had mock elections in 2004 back in high schoolApr 22 22:56
wispygalaxyhe did surprisingly wellApr 22 22:56
wispygalaxybush beat kerry by a teensy bit, thoughApr 22 22:57
wispygalaxymy dad took a political quiz online, and he agrees with Kucinich 100%Apr 22 22:57
amarsh04rms did a fairly good job of splitting his sentences for his interpreterApr 22 22:58
wispygalaxythat's nice of himApr 22 22:59
wispygalaxywhen you know your words are being translated, make sure you are speaking slowlyApr 22 22:59
schestowitzOr transcribedApr 22 23:01
schestowitzThere's plan for errr and hmmm...Apr 22 23:01
schestowitzBut when you utter a word, it's there.Apr 22 23:01
schestowitzSo better take time to think it throughApr 22 23:01
amarsh04also one has to speak complete clauses or sentencesApr 22 23:02
wispygalaxyyes, i try not to say 'like'Apr 22 23:02
amarsh04how did it come across to you schestowitz as someone who knew both languages?Apr 22 23:02
*_spc_ (n=spc_@eth-188.243-homell.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovellApr 22 23:04
wispygalaxyin a formal discussion setting, it's important to speak in full sentences, i thinkApr 22 23:04
wispygalaxybut when you are with friends, you can speak casually/ with slangApr 22 23:05
wispygalaxywhat will happen to java, since oracle bought it?Apr 22 23:11
wispygalaxyi hope it stays openApr 22 23:11
_spc_yeah, it also will become a coffeeApr 22 23:12
wispygalaxymmmmmmmApr 22 23:12
wispygalaxylolApr 22 23:12
wispygalaxyhave we met before?  i'm wispyApr 22 23:12
wispygalaxyi know Schestowitz from DiggApr 22 23:13
_spc_yeah, i'm booApr 22 23:13
wispygalaxyohhhhhhh i see hahaApr 22 23:13
wispygalaxywelcome back to the BN IRC channelApr 22 23:14
_spc_yeah, i'm quite often hereApr 22 23:14
_spc_with diff nicknames thoughApr 22 23:14
wispygalaxyi started using 'wispy' but i'm using 'wispygalaxy' from now onApr 22 23:15
wispygalaxyi use this name everywhereApr 22 23:15
_spc_those fags in ##socialites banned me for being fags-intolerantApr 22 23:15
wispygalaxywhat is that channel like?Apr 22 23:15
_spc_chat trashApr 22 23:16
wispygalaxythe AIM chat rooms are very trashy, been there only onceApr 22 23:16
_spc_25% of talks about how gay they areApr 22 23:16
_spc_and if you point it out, you're intolerant and should be bannedApr 22 23:16
wispygalaxyhmmm are they allowed to talk about their sex life in there?Apr 22 23:17
_spc_yeah, any trash talk and foul wordsApr 22 23:17
wispygalaxywell, i guess that channel is not your taste after allApr 22 23:18
_spc_seems like thatApr 22 23:18
_spc_but i don't like when i get banned for no sane reason or ops hypocricyApr 22 23:19
_spc_so i just ban evadeApr 22 23:19
wispygalaxyi guess some people like having complete control over a channelApr 22 23:19
wispygalaxyit gets to their headsApr 22 23:19
schestowitzbalzac got banned from UbuntuApr 22 23:19
schestowitzFor very minor thingsApr 22 23:19
wispygalaxypoor balzacApr 22 23:20
_spc_freenode is becoming an almost total trashApr 22 23:20
wispygalaxywhere do we go now?Apr 22 23:20
amarsh04fdfnet.net has been fairly good, and debian's ircApr 22 23:20
_spc_except some channelsApr 22 23:20
wispygalaxyi'll check that out, amarsh, thxApr 22 23:20
amarsh04irc.fdfnet.net channel #groklaw (-:Apr 22 23:21
wispygalaxyat least this channel is still cool, thanks roy!  heheApr 22 23:21
wispygalaxypam's channel, coolApr 22 23:21
amarsh04no official relationship but groklaw.net webmaster MathFox is a regularApr 22 23:21
wispygalaxyso you get accurate info straight from himApr 22 23:22
amarsh04you get people who are very in tune with what has been covered in groklaw.net over the yearsApr 22 23:23
wispygalaxyso it's a good quality channel overallApr 22 23:23
amarsh04yes, usually multiple ops in channelApr 22 23:25
tessier_wispygalaxy: Not Pam's channel. The topic on the channel explicitly says it is not associated with her.Apr 22 23:25
_spc_multiple ops doesn't mean good qualityApr 22 23:25
wispygalaxyoh ok, thank tessierApr 22 23:25
_spc_often the less the ops the betterApr 22 23:25
amarsh04good in terms of banning spammers... no regulars get banned or behave in a fashion that would want others to ban themApr 22 23:26
wispygalaxysince there are a lot of guys who know about groklaw, i figured they would give out better info than other guysApr 22 23:26
_spc_amarsh04, only lame channels like ##windows get spammed oftenApr 22 23:26
wispygalaxywho wants to read that channel, anyway hahaApr 22 23:27
_spc_:))Apr 22 23:27
wispygalaxyspammers are very annoying. on Digg, they try to friend me all the timeApr 22 23:27
schestowitzSorry if I'm slow now BTW. I'm busy preparing links for you guys (and wispygalaxy)Apr 22 23:27
wispygalaxythanks for the present, haha ;)Apr 22 23:28
schestowitzOnly in America will "you guys" cover girls tooApr 22 23:28
_spc_may be ikonia is a girl too :)Apr 22 23:28
amarsh04no worries schestowitzApr 22 23:28
wispygalaxy:)Apr 22 23:28
schestowitzGander doesn't matter as much as the messageApr 22 23:28
amarsh04and in .au schestowitz, even females talking to other femalesApr 22 23:28
schestowitzBut when banter comes up, then it's good to clarifyApr 22 23:28
wispygalaxyyes, i am concerned about the message, not who the messenger isApr 22 23:29
wispygalaxyyes, people don't automatically assume i'm female at firstApr 22 23:29
schestowitzamarsh04: yup, we need more women in Free/libre softwareApr 22 23:29
schestowitzSome of the speakers whom I follow on this subject are female, but only in the political arenaApr 22 23:29
_spc_invite ##ubuntu-womenApr 22 23:29
amarsh04yes, there are a few in .au schestowitzApr 22 23:29
schestowitzThey have the advbantage of not being attackable to the same degreeApr 22 23:30
wispygalaxylol that's an advantageApr 22 23:30
schestowitzIt's hard for government to ban/imprison a white, adult, womanApr 22 23:30
amarsh04true schestowitzApr 22 23:30
schestowitzTry doing activism as a male MuslimApr 22 23:30
schestowitzThey'd make it hardApr 22 23:30
schestowitzBased on prejudice, which give ammuniationApr 22 23:30
wispygalaxyit's an ad-hominem attack, sadlyApr 22 23:31
schestowitzI wonder if PJ would be insulted more if she were not a femaleApr 22 23:31
wispygalaxyhmm interesting pointApr 22 23:31
wispygalaxyshe's always referred to as 'PJ', not PamelaApr 22 23:31
schestowitzA British sergeant  (IIRC) slapped a woman protester the other dayApr 22 23:32
schestowitzShe pressed no charges but she was wqoundedApr 22 23:32
wispygalaxyif you are bigger than someone, then don't try that crapApr 22 23:32
schestowitzShe protested against the attack on Ian, who dies as a bystanders after getting attacked by a policemanApr 22 23:32
schestowitzNear my house there a stand distributing leaflets about itApr 22 23:32
schestowitz     > if you are bigger than someone, then don't try that crapApr 22 23:33
schestowitzSometime it's the oppositeApr 22 23:33
schestowitzIt's a bully inferiority complexApr 22 23:33
wispygalaxypeople should stand up for themselves, it's very effectiveApr 22 23:33
schestowitzIf they are law enforcers or spooks, they'll want to bully uou moreApr 22 23:33
schestowitzJust watch what happens to big people in prisonApr 22 23:33
wispygalaxyyes, picking on someone smaller than yourself makes you look patheticApr 22 23:33
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wispygalaxyuh oh, hahaApr 22 23:34
amarsh04well, I'm about 56 kg (-:Apr 22 23:34
wispygalaxygood to keep in shape, i see :)Apr 22 23:35
schestowitzI 'm always 100kgApr 22 23:40
schestowitz*almostApr 22 23:41
wispygalaxyof course, you work out and have all that muscle hahaApr 22 23:41
wispygalaxy;)Apr 22 23:41
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Apr 22 23:41
schestowitzI have this friend who used to take steroids and it messed up its healthApr 22 23:42
schestowitzI'm glad I'm always staying on the clean sideApr 22 23:42
wispygalaxyjaundice, acne, hormonal problemsApr 22 23:42
wispygalaxysteroids cause thatApr 22 23:42
schestowitzWell, one day he passed outApr 22 23:42
wispygalaxyalso roid rageApr 22 23:42
schestowitzAnd it's only part of more problemsApr 22 23:42
schestowitzScary stuffApr 22 23:42
schestowitzThese things should be illegalisedApr 22 23:42
wispygalaxywell, it's good that you are committed to being cleanApr 22 23:43
schestowitzIt always amuses me to see that phony governor of TexasApr 22 23:43
schestowitzFriend of invader BushApr 22 23:43
wispygalaxyi don't do drugs, eitherApr 22 23:43
schestowitzAnd also...Apr 22 23:43
schestowitzHe wants to ban steroid... such a hypocriteApr 22 23:43
schestowitzThe guy messed himself up too (he has money for his healthcare)Apr 22 23:43
schestowitzAnd he tries to tell others not to do what he did. What a stupid RoidphreakApr 22 23:44
wispygalaxythey say the war on drugs in fueling the druglords in mexicoApr 22 23:44
wispygalaxyhypocritical :(Apr 22 23:44
schestowitzWar oin drugs is like war on sharingApr 22 23:44
schestowitzOf filesApr 22 23:44
schestowitzIt's not winnableApr 22 23:44
schestowitzYou just criminalise peopleApr 22 23:44
schestowitzSome p-eople grow pot in treir back yearApr 22 23:44
schestowitz*yardApr 22 23:44
wispygalaxylook at the US jails.  non-violent criminals are thereApr 22 23:44
schestowitzIt's not 'policeable'.Apr 22 23:44
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, and white-collar crimes run rampantApr 22 23:45
wispygalaxythat is worse, imoApr 22 23:45
schestowitzEither killing millions of people with B52s or ruining foreign economies by dumping software, to give one exampleApr 22 23:45
schestowitzOr  selling tobacco FOR MONEY, etc.Apr 22 23:45
wispygalaxysince it's so silent (white collar crimes), it's easy to cause more damageApr 22 23:45
schestowitzI..e selling drugs at massive scale and killing like 50 million Chinese (from smoking, IIRC)Apr 22 23:46
schestowitzPrison #1: what did you do?Apr 22 23:46
schestowitzPrison #2: I took a pillApr 22 23:46
*Ziggyfish (n=brendan@61-8-103-22.intrapower.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellApr 22 23:46
schestowitzPrison #2: what did you do?Apr 22 23:46
schestowitzPrison #1: Killed a bunch of kidsApr 22 23:46
Ziggyfishliking the new theme for the wiki, looks a lot betterApr 22 23:47
wispygalaxylol @ the range of severityApr 22 23:47
wispygalaxyroy you reminded me of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...Apr 22 23:47
*schestowitz looksApr 22 23:47
*mib_ey0o48 (i=54c30a28@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bb5e04553684b85a) has joined #boycottnovellApr 22 23:48
schestowitz"This video is not available in your country. "Apr 22 23:48
wispygalaxyhi ziggyfishApr 22 23:48
schestowitzUK blocks itApr 22 23:48
ZiggyfishheyApr 22 23:48
schestowitzGermany would tooApr 22 23:49
schestowitzHi, Ziggyfish Apr 22 23:49
wispygalaxyit's Afroman - Because I Got HighApr 22 23:49
wispygalaxythat song is funny yet seriousApr 22 23:49
MinceRblocked in hungary, tooApr 22 23:49
wispygalaxyuniversalmusicgroup posted it on YTApr 22 23:50
wispygalaxywhy do they want to block their international customers?Apr 22 23:50
wispygalaxyreminds me of huluApr 22 23:50
wispygalaxyhulu blocks canadaApr 22 23:50

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