The debian-private mailing list leak, part 1. Volunteers have complained about Blackmail. Lynchings. Character assassination. Defamation. Cyberbullying. Volunteers who gave many years of their lives are picked out at random for cruel social experiments. The former DPL's girlfriend Molly de Blanc is given volunteers to experiment on for her crazy talks. These volunteers never consented to be used like lab rats. We don't either. debian-private can no longer be a safe space for the cabal. Let these monsters have nowhere to hide. Volunteers are not disposable. We stand with the victims.
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Re: DPKG, RPM. Life sucks.

On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:

> I don't know how to respond to "Martian and Alien are already too far".
> Debian doesn't currently include suppression of new technology in its
> policy set, even if that new technology could cause the above kind of
> confusion. Do you have any suggestions?

Now that I rethink it, I probably overeacted. It would enough, if Alien 
would check that it doesn't overwrite any base stuff... 

> > This issue has been talked a million times through - allways the same 
> > conclusion - we want stick with dpgk.

> Yes, no problem with that. I think the day will come when both DPKG and
> RPM understand POSIX packages, since POSIX packages are so simple and
> people seem to think there's value in well-documented standards.

Ok. This seems reasonable. 

> At the Linux Expo, a Red Hat sponsored event, there were
> a lot of people enthusiastic about Debian once they heard me speak about
> it. They seemed to understand that there was more to Debian than just
> dpkg. Ted Tso spoke out during his own lecture that it was necessary to
> have both dpkg and rpm exist because competition made for better products.

This very true. Remembering the fact that rpm was nothing until they had
to compete against dpgk. 

> I have discussed this with them a number of times. Erik said he would
> have gone with dpkg, but the Debian project had too much politics (way
> back then!). Currently, he doesn't like these features:

I'm a relative newbie for debian (now nearly half year of developing),
But if Debian has had more politics than it has recently had (all
dictarship/democracy stuff), I'm left wondering...

> 	1. The user interface (no surprise).

Why not offer  Erik to make a better one :) Seriously, I think that 
we all know that dselect is our shortkoming. Atleast on the dpkg 1.4.0.9
changelog by Klee claimed that he's keeping user interface at high
priority, and Brian is gathering a team for dselect. There is some
light in the end of the tunnel!

> 	2. The "Recommends" dependency.
> 	3. The "Suggests" dependency.

I think the problem isn't with these depedncies is the way dselect 
handles them.

> I suggested that he could ignore "Recommends" and "Suggests" with
> impunity. 

Isn't this what dpkg does too? only dselect cares...

> I think if we want to beat RPM, we have to write a better RPM than RPM.
> In other words, it has to have a better UI than RPM or DPKG, and has to
> understand DPKG, RPM, and POSIX packages. We have the technology.

Agree!

Best wishes,

		Riku Voipio