Re: Debian needs you

[Dale Scheetz <dwarf@polaris.net>]

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Christoph Lameter wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:
> 
> > My personal opinion is that the 100% free nature of the software is an
> > essential part of the compensation of the volunteers. Without it, they
> > would not feel as good about their work, and they would be less likely
> > to volunteer.
> 
> I see things more pragmatic. I debianize things in order to have them run
> on our computer systems on Campus or some toys for me. I want others to
> contribute to the capability on our servers and we in turn contribute to
> the Debian distribution things that are important to us. This is a give
> and take between people interested in sharing the work done on software.
> The GPL essentially ensures that our investment in free software stays
> free. If someone wants to contribute software that is using a different
> license then they are welcome as long as we can use it. The time 
> investment that we will make in commercial software generally will be
> not as high as in free software but that is depending on the usefulness of
> the software so offered. A part of our system is using commercial software
> due to the unavailability of comparable free software products.

As you say at the begining of this paragraph, this is the way YOU do
things. While this is a useful process for you personally, and Debian will
protect your right to do so by keeping our licenses free, I don't see your
position as a good one for the project to take.

> 
> I think most Debian developers run netscape which is a commercial product.
> And the usability here clearly outweighs any license considerations.
> 
If netscape is your idea of a "quality" proprietary product that "does a
good job" and is "well maintained" then I understand why we keep having
this discussion. Yes, I use netscrape, whenever I am forced to go out on
the web, but I would love a "stripped down", "no frills", surf board for
going out on the web ... something fast and stupid (so it only does what
you ask) that just follows links, displays html, and maybe lets you save
images and text, without growing old waiting for a screen update. In fact,
I have been thinking of just such a project to try out the GTK, but I have
heard rumors that there is a FSF version of a brouser comming out "someday
soon".

> > I think this is the primary reason there are no "moderate" candidates.
> > The moderates don't have as strong an incentive to work three hours per
> > day for Debian, the hard-line free software people do.
> 
> The moderates might have an interest to keep things moderate and keep
> Debian in good terms with the rest of the world. Radicalization of Debian
> results in isolation from the rest of the Linux community. I am rather
> concerned about the current candidate for Project Leader and I am happy
> that there is no third so far.
> 
I would think you would hunger for another candidate, if you have problems
with the current candidates. On the other hand, if you were to run as a
candidate, we could see just how much support there is for your position.
While I can get behind your ideas of "not discriminating against less than
free software", I do not follow that to the conclusions that you do, in
assuming that it will not change Debian to bring non-free programs into
the distribution. I don't think you will find much support here for that
desire.

> > To use myself for an example, building free software for everyone is
> > its own reward. If I felt that I was using my spare time to promote
> > someone else's commercial product that had no free incarnation, I'd
> > feel much worse, and would probably find something else to do.
> 
> Back the KDE situation: most of KDE is GPL except for that QT issue.
> Punishing KDE for QT is not good. Help them to find a replacement for QT
> rather than being negative about KDE.
> 
I think that the only negatives expressed here about KDE have to do with
QT. I don't see how we could "punish" KDE even if we wanted to, as we
aren't a major customer or anything like that. If you mean we should not
speak out about software that causes us problems, I very much dissagree.
This is an "open" environment. Placing some topics for discussion "off
limits" is counter productive. I do agree with you, and so do several
others (including Bruce, I think), that providing the community with an
alternative to QT would be very nice, but at this point, the only folks
who would gain by such an exercise are the KDE folks. There are several
other desktop environments comming along that have a much more free
license and, from what I have heard, a cleaner interface (at least WRT
GNOME/GTK), that are less problematical for us to support, both from a
technical standpoint as well as the "religious" one.

Luck,

Dwarf
-- 
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aka   Dale Scheetz                   Phone:   1 (904) 656-9769
      Flexible Software              11000 McCrackin Road
      e-mail:  dwarf@polaris.net     Tallahassee, FL  32308

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