Comments on: Fedora “Concerned” About Mono for Legal Reasons, Ubuntu Debate Carries on http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-2/#comment-66521 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:55:28 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66521 Did anyone make such a point?

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By: Yuhong Bao http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-2/#comment-66509 Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:50:47 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66509 Well, I don’t think Ubuntu having Mono by default is as bad as Ubuntu signing a Microsoft-Novell like deal, but yea you still have to be careful here.

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By: Jacob Peddicord http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-2/#comment-66383 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:14:49 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66383 I suppose I didn’t make it completely clear with my post, though I didn’t expect it to get this kind of attention. I posted about Vala[0] to see what people had to say from a technical standpoint about it, not as a “safe haven” from Mono due to legal reasons.

[0] http://jacob.peddicord.net/blog/2009/06/12/mono-v-vala-fight/

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66371 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:14:51 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66371 vello,

I use GNOME. GTK and GNOME are not the problem, maybe just a small subset of the associated work.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-2/#comment-66370 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:12:21 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66370 Yes, it enriches their franchise.

“Developers, developers, developers, developers…”

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By: eet http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66369 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:38:48 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66369 A point-on analysis, Zac!

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By: vello http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66366 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:23:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66366 Actually, the biggest amount of work regarding Qt + Gtk interoperability have been done by Qt folk. So currently (Ubuntu Jaunty), Qt apps do look right at home on Gnome desktop.

I’m surprised why Boycott Novell exhibits so much Gnome love, when it’s Gnome that is engaging in all these shenanigans about C#, Mono…

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-2/#comment-66365 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:09:37 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66365 Oh and btw they are REALLY pushing users to make stuff on their Xbox 360 platform for instance. It’s pretty sickening, really, they have kids on there making stuff for Microsoft’s own walled garden, and of course they LOVE that, $$$. “User-generated content” is the shizzle for a lot of companies right now, using the community as best they can to spread the word about their products, and get users wrapped up in them as best they can. If you *want* to of course then that’s your choice, but everyone needs to realize that that is what is going on and think about alternatives which could give them more freedom. Have fun, AND be free at the same time. Much awesomer. ^^

So ya, I’ll stick with Java/C/Python/Others. ;)

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66364 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:04:47 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66364 You know, that is part of the open source assimilation that they are after, too. What *are* Linux and the other free OSes? You can largely say they are part of the free software movement, and a movement is a community effort and want for a particular thing. So what’s the first thing you go after? Trying to get the same “energy” geared towards your own platform.

Microsoft wants you to like them, they want to be seen as your “open source buddy”. I don’t think you will ever again hear statements like were made when they told the press about Linux patent infringement ever again. They will talk about it internally, and if more memos slip out, but otherwise you won’t hear it. They know they’re in trouble, and they won’t let PR slip out like that again if they can help it because it makes them seem like they aren’t open source buddies when that happens.

That’s because it’s true that they aren’t. You’re not using Windows, that’s a problem. Bad Roy, bad. Your paycheck is supposed to be mailed directly to Microsoft, what were you thinking? :P

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66361 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:43:11 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66361 They’ll claim that .NET has won on all counts. Novell is giving it to them.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66358 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:40:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66358 Sure, or in other words, from their viewpoint, any improvement in the acceptance of their own software and “platforms” is a small win, a small victory in the mindshare war.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66356 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:37:57 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66356 While you’re right that fragmenting your competitors and trying to create free software vs. free software wars is one thing that Microsoft wants, if developers choose to support non-Microsoft platforms and instead support other things like Java, C, Python, etc, then of course they are completely free to do so. Working together on one project is best but only if it fits your needs, and many concerned Linux users and developers aren’t finding that .NET and Silverlight are platforms they want to develop on, as much as Microsoft would love seeing that happen. Something about, oh, patent threats and slamming Linux with patent allegations and in general being the direct competitor of Linux for some reason turns them off.

Mix in some hard facts about what kind of company Microsoft is, their patent threats against Linux, and in general an extreme disgust of everything Microsoft can easily form. This is surprising?

It’s a mindshare war, but if you’re on the fence trying to decide about who to work for and what platforms to support, looking and the licenses, patents, and the general ethicalness and niceness of the platforms you are considering is important for your well being. No one wants to see their work be in vain due to the strings that happened to be attached to it.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66343 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:38:07 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66343 The concern is that they use Ubuntu as ‘proof’ that Mono is OK.

In a similar vein, Microsoft uses the TomTom settlement as ‘proof’ that more companies need to pay for FAT patents. It is done behind the scenes.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66337 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:32:18 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66337 I wanted to ask if anyone had bothered making an ISO of Ubuntu not coming injected with Mono yet? I hear Debian lacks it…

Microsoft will keep going after whoever is the biggest. ASUS is the first to really spread netbooks? Windowsified. Ubuntu is the most popular desktop OS? Injected.

I just wonder how big the payments/kickbacks were for all this Microsoft software pushing. Not that that was the case with Ubuntu but it could be and of course wouldn’t be surprising.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66335 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:28:07 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66335 Countering Microsoft’s moves is a waste of time? Then why are they spending the energy and money to make those moves to begin with?

They’re simply trying to keep themselves entrenched in the market, like they’ve stated they want to keep “critical mass”, so any spread of their “platform” which includes Windows and .NET/Mono will do one of two things:

a) help others migrate away from them
b) help others migrate towards them

But even if you try to pick which Mono will do, for them either one of these may be much better than

c) no compatibility, dump one or the other

Because then they can’t even keep *any* kind of Microsoft dependency around.

So free OSes have gotten to the point where Microsoft has entered a phase where it needs to play nicely with these competitors by doing a or b, because c apparently is resulting in dumping Microsoft more often than not in the face of competition with free software.

In other words, they’d like you to keep at least your Exchange server around, instead of dumping the entire integrated Microsoft system for an all-free one.

Any way, like aeshna23 mentioned, if you’re so concerned with patents then who’s API would you use for your system, one coming from a company which has attacked Linux for patent violations and has attacked Linux-using companies, or companies which are much more open and nicer in general and have legal claims to that openness? Java or Mono? OpenGL or DirectX? etc

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66331 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:11:32 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66331 Fragmentation is something you always need to be concerned about, as it effects your freedom. Freedesktop’s work needs to continue to help make Qt and GTK as interoperable as possible, not to mention any and all other desktop environments, by developing good and flexible standards which allow continued development and progress.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66328 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:39:38 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66328 Exactly.. It needs an argument.

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By: aeshna23 http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66325 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 03:24:34 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66325 Given the Tom-Tom case, can you construct a credible argument why Microsoft “will not waste their time” about Mono?

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By: Zac http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66324 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 02:31:37 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66324 Microsoft WILL NOT take any action with regard to mono. I REPEAT, IT WILL NOT. They will not waste their time.

What are we doing? Do we need Microsoft to fragment and create endless disruption in Linux sucking and diverting our energy? Hell no!
Can’t you see we are doing it ourselves? Microsoft don’t need to spend a dime. Stop handing a gift to Microsoft.

Red Hat’s Fedora to stop using mono for legal reasons? That is not the reason. Red Hat is a profitable public company whose obligation is to it’s shareholders and investors. Fedora is used as a base for their RHEL product and because of this Fedora has a different target audience than that of, say, Ubuntu. This is the fundamental reason for the decision, not for legal reasons. I don’t know what Red Hat’s or Fedora’s game is but this is flaming the issue. There are many vocal Linux users that are taking this bait not knowing what the implications are. You are destroying Linux yourselves people.

To Microsoft: Sit back and watch the show.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/13/fedora-ubuntu-debate-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66317 Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:44:53 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13035#comment-66317 No, there’s maximal depth.

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