Comments on: The Unfortunate Effect of the “Boycott Boycott Novell” Crowd http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61216 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:03:55 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61216 @Paul Gaskin:

I think it’s his real name, but I wish people knew why he loves Mono so much that he posts many hundreds of comments defending it at every chance. That’s all the disclosure I want. He can’t pretend to be foreign to Mono.

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By: Paul Gaskin http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61215 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:59:34 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61215 I’ll remind you again, Roy is not “haunting” Miguel. Miguel knows exactly who Roy is. They’ve got beef, but they’re both upright and public.

You said “exaggerated lies”?

“Dan O’Brian” – again, is that your given name? Answer me that one question. If it is a pseudonym, then you are “haunting” Roy because you’re a disembodied, anonymous, hostile entity.

I could have used a stronger word, but I refrained, so don’t tell me about exaggeration. Just tell me if “Dan O’Brian” is your given name or a pseudonym.

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By: G. Michaels http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-3/#comment-61179 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:31:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61179 It’s possible that Dan O’Brian is one of the people who have been slagged and victimized by BoycottBoy in the name of freedom and apple pie, in which case it’s probably prudent to not reveal who he is. In any case, constantly implying that he is employed by Eeevil Novell probably makes people pay more attention to what he says, and unlike most of the BoycottBoys, at least he doesn’t lie through his teeth. His posts on here are enough of a track record to establish that. As far as I know correcting factual inaccuracies is not a crime yet, at least not in the jurisdiction where this server is hosted.

I have to give the proprietor high marks for adding a “feature” to his blog that is used one day later (one whole day!) to complain that it’s being used for nefarious purposes. It’s almost as if he did it on purpose. Is this “story” going to be used for future link splashes as “proof” that the minions of evil are hounding him? Possibly. Although I’ve noticed he doesn’t use the Jimmi Hugh hit job very much. Which reminds me Roy – maybe you should take Roy Bixler’s advice and do a follow up on that, it would be super entertaining!

And Paul Gaskin, I hope no one ever ties your “balzac” comments on the IRC logs about your supposed exploits at titty bars to your real identity. I bet that won’t go over well with potential employers. That is, unless you can actually convince Richard Stallman of selling plush GNUs for $50 a pop and advertise them here, haha.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Will (er, “twitter”), have you thought about becoming a science fiction author? You have the most amazing knack for making up unbelievable stories and trying to sell them as plausible, even though everyone reading them knows they’re, well, completely implausible. Let me know if you want to continue on this “it was all an experiment” track, I have lots of Slashdot links that you’d have a blast trying to explain in that context.

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By: Dan O'Brian http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61178 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 02:08:37 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61178 Btw, if you call what I do “cyber haunting”, then what do you call what Roy does to Miguel de Icaza and other people?

He’s attacked them on far more times and on far more sites than I’ve even mentioned Roy or BN.

You guys are hypocrites and you keep proving that you are more guilty of the things you accuse others of than the people you accuse.

Time and time again.

You get all upset when I mention “twitter” because you dislike it when “guilt by association” is used, yet it is the cornerstone of all of your arguments against me, Novell, Mono, etc.

Mono is “guilty until proven innocent” due to it being associated with Novell (or “guilty until proven innocent” due to it being associated with Microsoft).

I’m “guilty until proven innocent” because you accuse me of working for Novell (which I do not).

Guilt by Association. You guys use that logical fallacy every day on this website. It is the cornerstone of nearly ALL of your arguments.

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By: Dan O'Brian http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61177 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 01:51:49 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61177 Mind sharing these “wide spread” sites? I’ve commented on usenet maybe once or twice, because Roy pointed to a discussion on his usenet forum (on a number of occasions I might add). Same for the one or two other sites I’ve posted to pertaining to either Roy or BN.

I’m sorry, but no one is going to buy your exaggerated lies, Paul.

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By: PaulGaskin http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61174 Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:29:53 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61174 Regarding the guy who brought up SSNs and privacy, I would say that I agree, but there comes a point at which anonymity is not a reasonable proposition when in the course of a sustained attack on the credibility of a person who is not anonymous.

I would argue that “Dan O’Brian” has crossed that threshold into the inappropriate and unreasonable by his persistence, his wide spread commentary on many different sites, and over a significant span of time.

I might call that “cyber-haunting” someone with “negitude”.

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By: JohnD http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61169 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:37:35 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61169 I think the threads in this post indicate otherwise. People are already dismissing other posters because there’s some “evidence” that a poster works for Novell or participates in projects that support “bad” software. Censorship is not just blocking posts, there are many levels. Creating and/or supporting an environment that trivializes posts based not on a lack of facts, but on perceived affiliations – is a form of censorship.

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By: Dan O'Brian http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61168 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:36:04 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61168 Roy: censorship doesn’t have to involve blocking of comments.

And you are trying to censor me by trying to get everyone to throw out my arguments with the bathwater based on who they are coming from. That is a form of censorship.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61167 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:29:54 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61167

When disclosure leads to censorship – they aren’t separate.

Disclosure never leads to censorship in our case.

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By: JohnD http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61165 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:22:50 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61165 Roy,
When disclosure leads to censorship – they aren’t separate.
Both sides of disclosure have been discussed here in recent days and both sides have reasonable arguments.
Honestly a person’s posts should clue any reader of average intelligence as to their standing on the issues at hand.
Everyone has their own interest and motivations – you included. Why any of us has chosen a particular side is not important. The only thing that should concern this site’s readers are the issues.
When you start deciding who should be listened to based upon where they work, or what projects they work on – your promoting censorship.
If you truly support full disclosure you should have link in the banner section of every page that states your true intention for this site.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61160 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:07:09 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61160 JohnD,

It’s the old debate about reasons for disclosure. Censorship/suppression and disclosure are separate things.

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By: JohnD http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61159 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:02:28 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61159 Roy,
I get it, but that’s precisely why they should be heard. If Novell employees/supporters can’t put together a cogent, fact based argument to refute your posts, why would anyone keep listening to them? If you’re right and they are wrong then there’s absolutely nothing they can say to undermine your position. If this is the case – why do them the favor of acknowledging who they are?

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By: Dan O'Brian http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61158 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 16:00:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61158 But if their arguments are valid, what difference does it make who posted the argument?

You have vested interests too.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61157 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:55:11 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61157 JohnD,

If someone from Novell posts here, there are vested interests at play.. Very significant ones in fact.

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By: JohnD http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61155 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:51:55 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61155 Roy,
Frankly I think you should welcome everyone with open arms until they violate posting rules.
Flagging people based upon who they work for is really a form of censorship. One of the first things a new dictator does when he gains control is quell all opposing view points. It’s easier to control people when the only information they have access to is what you feed them. This is why many religious extremists oppose education – it’s easy to control the ignorant.
You can’t have true dialog or idea exchange unless both sides are treated equally. Flagging someone as an MS/Novell/BN employee will immediately prejudice readers both for and against. If your concerns are truly valid they will be able to bear the weight of criticism. Give the people the freedom and respect to check out the site, read articles and make up their own minds.
If I’m not mistaken, the purpose of this site is to focus on what’s happening in the IT industry – not us. When you start burrowing into who people are and what their motivations may be, you take your eye off the ball and get drawn into pointless discussions.
You are allowed to post all of your ideas, give your site visitors the same opportunity. If you’re not up to defending your posts, you should remove visitor posting ability. So what it boils down to is this: Do you want a web based soap box or an interactive site?

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61153 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:25:20 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61153 John,

Sarcasm aside, I don’t know how I feel about letting Novell employees, for example, just comment here anonymously without it being flagged.

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By: JohnD http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61152 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 15:22:40 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61152 Ok I want everyone to cough up their SSN numbers so I can verify each of your identities. There is no possible way anyone on here could have any valid points to make because I don’t know who you “really” are.
Until I have verified your identity I will assume your are a liar and simply exist to denounce my point of view.

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By: Dan O'Brian http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61134 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:41:16 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61134 Paul: Seems to me you want me to go away because you don’t like being having your evidence-lacking opinions proven to be factually false.

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By: PaulGaskin http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-61133 Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:07:10 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61133 Again, “Dan O’Brian” (I’m going to put your name in quotes for now), you’re contesting Roy from secrecy.

You present your name as “Dan O’Brian”. Is that really your name? If not, don’t keep up the charade, because if it is discovered who you are through some network forensics, or something which gives you away, it will be very embarrassing.

So be careful here before you continue. If you’re not planning to disclose your identity and your employer, it’s a good idea to go away.

BTW, you keep mentioning people who go online under their own names. Your problem is that you’re trying to “go hard” against a public name while keeping your own anonymity. That’s a more dangerous game than anyone else is playing.

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By: PaulGaskin http://techrights.org/2009/03/25/boycott-boycott-novell-votes/comment-page-3/#comment-61130 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 18:17:47 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=7416#comment-61130 Saul, I can understand that. I really prefer up-or-down voting which displays who voted how on every single comment, just by hovering over with the mouse.

That really makes for a hot forum. Anonymous 5-star voting may be good for movie reviews, but it’s not very interactive. But it was good fodder for conversation about astro-turfers.

I’ve been lobbying Roy to upgrade from WordPress to Drupal so he can have the kind of forum which really supports a complex social environment with cliques, vendettas, and such.

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