Comments on: The Patent System is Broken.. and How NOT to Fix It http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: An Examiner http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-4/#comment-47395 Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:17:30 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-47395 As an examiner, I always get a kick out of folks who rail software patents. Then you ask them for the definition of a software patent and they can’t tell you, or say it’s a patent that ‘claims software’. And then you politely inform them that nothing that ‘claims software’ is ever issued.

What you mean to say, instead of ‘software patent’, is ‘functionally claimed patent’. Back in the stone age, people defined inventions by their structure, because structure determined functionality. So patents made claims to structurally different inventions. By doing this they got coverage over any extra functionality the structurally novel object performed.

Now that we’re out of the stone age, however, people define inventions by their functionality. Why? Because with a computer related invention, structure doesn’t define anything. So patents make claims to functionality, because a) structure doesn’t matter for general enablement, and b) any variation in structure would be obvious. And now they get coverage over any structure that their functionally novel object can be enabled with.

If you’re against functionally claimed patents, then you need to step back and rethink how you view the patent system and why it exists. It’s designed to promote innovation via disclosure while providing protection to the inventor. The fact that so many patents are filed nowadays with functionally claimed computer related inventions means that it is, in fact, promoting innovation via disclosure.

As far as protecting open source Linux material, publications are the route to go. Create one standardized group that publishes every new feature about Linux. Patent trolling is a function of patent quality. Patent quality is a function of the examiner having easy access to the prior art directly relating to the claimed invention.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-4/#comment-46106 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:51:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46106 There are companies that still resist change. Take IBM for example.

IBM is well aware that its investment in software patents is an investment in a bubble that won’t necessarily generate any profits, but there is still a battle out there for perception among the public.

Some of the seniors at IBM continue to defend software patents (or escape the questions from critics altogether) and later on they ‘contribute’ imaginary assets in what they call a “pledge” or a “promise”. It’s like the MAFIAA taking people’s rights away and then selling them back.

IBM is unlikely to be the company that will ‘turn the table’ so to speak or let people know that it has just two 2′s, 3′s and a 5. It keeps its poker face, so it won’t come out with a confession. If you can make people believe something is worth a lot (much like branding, a la Coca Cola), then respect remains.

Patents are also mechanisms for price-fixing and artificial elevation of cost. We don’t need that applied to mere thought.

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By: AlexH http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-3/#comment-46105 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:39:38 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46105 Oh, absolutely, and I think In Re Bilski (to cite it properly ;) ) is doing that already to a large extent.

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By: Shane Coyle http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-3/#comment-46104 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:26:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46104 As usual, I think we agree mostly. My point is that software patents aren’t valid, and are therefore worthless. Once that knowledge becomes more commonplace, market forces will set the value, so to speak.

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By: AlexH http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-3/#comment-46103 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:17:30 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46103 @Roy: no, it’s not relevant, it’s completely and utterly beside the point.

Shane said they have no value. I’m pointing out that nothing has any intrinsic monetary value. You’re making some argument about knowledge scarcity which is irrelevant; value and scarcity are completely different concepts (example: people buy bottled water particularly in urban areas, where fresh water is about the least scarce thing available).

Things are (only) worth what people are willing to pay. If you want to argue about another point go ahead, but it’s not related to anything I’m discussing.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-3/#comment-46098 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:01:27 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46098 AlexH,

It sure is relevant. Think about how the RIAA tries encouraging the perception that no music is free and nothing but copyrights exists in the arts.

Knowledge monopolies have centuries in a history of suppression.

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By: AlexH http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-3/#comment-46094 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:31:40 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46094 @Roy: I’m not ignoring them at all, it’s irrelevant to the point I was making, which is that the value of something isn’t intrinsic in any way, for any good.

@Shane: sure, that’s a value a car has to you. That’s nothing to do with the value it has for other people, though.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-2/#comment-46092 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:22:17 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46092

A car is no more worth $10,000 than a software patent or deed to a plot of land on the moon.

You’re totally ignoring issues of duplication and scarcity. Why limit human knowledge?

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By: Shane Coyle http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-2/#comment-46091 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:17:15 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46091 Oh, and a car is a valid car and can be used as such, a software patent isn’t a valid patent and can only be used to heat your office if you print it out and burn it.

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By: Shane Coyle http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-2/#comment-46090 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:14:15 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46090 Some folks invest in these companies because of their supposed ‘ip’ portfolios, it will be instructive to see how these companies should fare if it were to be widely known that much of their ‘assets’ are worthless – then, all of a sudden, folks look harder at profitability and innovation and sound management and perhaps invest elsewhere…

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By: AlexH http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-2/#comment-46088 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:02:43 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46088 @Roy: I think that’s mostly an unjustified fear.

Patents have holders, and only the holder of the patent can prosecute it. If a large company transferred those patents (and shareholders don’t like that, as a rule!), they would no longer be in control of them. If they were still in control, they can still be bargained with. Trolls hold only a very small proportion of the overall patent pool, no matter how they got the patent.

@Shane: things, physical or not, are only worth what people will pay for them. You can make the same argument about practically any good. A car is no more worth $10,000 than a software patent or deed to a plot of land on the moon.

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By: Shane Coyle http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-2/#comment-46071 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:36:54 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46071 Let me be clear, I haven’t any problem with valid patents on devices, just software patents which aren’t.

Also, it’s important to properly establish this ‘intellectual property’ that many of these large software companies claim to own is worth nothing, kinda like those mortgage-backed-securities the US financials were claiming as tremendous assets and turned out to be junk.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-1/#comment-46034 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:13:37 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46034 Never forget that trolls sometimes operate (secretly) on behalf of larger companies that target “product removal” or grievance for competitors.

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By: AlexH http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-1/#comment-46028 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:09:20 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-46028 Nothing helps against the “trolls” though. Because you can’t defend yourself against them doesn’t mean you should leave yourself defenseless against everyone else.

“Troll” cases make the most noise, but they’re not the most numerous by a fair way, since most patents are in the hands of actual product-producing businesses.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-1/#comment-45999 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:27:12 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-45999 Filing patents wouldn’t help you against trolls. They have no products.

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By: Jo Shields http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-1/#comment-45995 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:25:43 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-45995 But given the USPTO doesn’t care about prior art, doesn’t the current system invite being sued by trolls if you *don’t* file things left right & center?

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By: Shane Coyle http://techrights.org/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/comment-page-1/#comment-45986 Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:17:18 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/not-to-fix-patent-system/#comment-45986 Stockpiling spurious patents isn’t okay, regardless of espoused intent or if it’s on ‘our side’; Software patents and method patents are not valid, any actions other than their wholesale repudiation is unacceptable and counterproductive, imo.

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