Comments on: Windows Vista Breaks the Internet, Vista 7 Fixes Nothing and Meanwhile Windows Fades Up North http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: David Gerard http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-5/#comment-60359 Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:01:04 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60359 Yeeeup. Dave Cutler gave them a fantastic and well-thought-out structure and then they (a) put Win32 on top of it (b) shoved stuff in the kernel that just didn’t belong there for speed.

There’s a paper, “Windows NT from a Unix Point of View”, written around the time of NT 3.51, which is heartbreaking in describing what they were trying to do. It no longer appears to be on microsoft.com; I’d love to find a copy again.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-4/#comment-60358 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:09:21 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60358 One of the reasons Windows used to crash a lot more was lack of separation between kernel and high-level stuff like GUI.

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By: David Gerard http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-4/#comment-60357 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:48:07 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60357 It probably has a microkernel too.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-4/#comment-60353 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:05:34 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60353 Don’t worry. The MSBBC spoke to the “independent” Microsoft Enderle and they can verify that design was taken care of and it’s now “modular”, even if Microsoft explicitly told Microsoft bloggers that the plan to make Windows modular got canned in 2008.

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By: David Gerard http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-4/#comment-60352 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:00:31 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60352 True. However, the spending and hubris match. Read the “Design controversies” section of that article.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-4/#comment-60350 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:57:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60350 Speaking of modularity, Microsoft Enderle is appearing in the MSBBC today bragging about his buddy’s (Ballmer) upcoming version of Windows, which he calls modular:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7932149.stm

A little incestuous, no? Both people are notorious for their relationship with Microsoft.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-3/#comment-60349 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:54:57 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60349 But… Edsel, unlike Vista, was not developed in a rush. Vista didn’t have much development — let alone testing — put into it (it’s a variant of Server 2003, XP’s sibling).

Development effort went into Longhorn, which was “rebooted” (Microsoft’s word) or suffered a “development collapse”.

Can’t beat modular code!

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By: David Gerard http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-3/#comment-60346 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:48:24 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60346 On the subject of Vista and Windows 7, it’s instructive to look at a previous famous technology marketing failure: the Ford Edsel. It cost a fortune to develop, was thrown at a market who just didn’t want it and had all manner of design issues. Some very nice ideas, badly implemented with mediocre quality control, at too high a price.

The most annoying parallel is the Edsel’s successor, the Comet, which was a huge hit … despite starting life as the Edsel Comet before the cursed brand name was hastily removed. Presumably Microsoft hopes for a similar effect.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-3/#comment-60341 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:10:37 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60341 @Yfrwlf:

I have copies of confidential memos and contracts between Microsoft and large OEMs (e.g. Acer, Dell, Compaq/HP). I intend to analyse these and highlight favouritism in the future. We need them translated to plain text.

Special deals were based on all sorts of reciprocal agreements (e.g. promotion of MSIE). There’s also volume that affects pricing and Intel used the same illegal tactics against AMD.

@Roy B:

Yes, Dell was afraid of retaliation.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-3/#comment-60340 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:40:57 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60340 Companies giving certain other companies special deals should be illegal. It stifles competition. In the case of Microsoft, they should be forced to sell Windows to anyone who wants to buy it at the same price, flat rate, across the board, including the OEMs, no ifs ands or buts. Get rid of favouritism as much as you can, and you make the market a much fairer place.

If that card, nay, that entire deck was taken away from Microsoft, they would be nothing in comparison to Linux. As it is, “free markets” favour monopolies pulling stunts like these so they can stay monopolies. The only salvation comes from the fact Linux costs $0, otherwise sadly I don’t think Linux would have a chance. You have to perform some AMAZING acts in order for an unfair monopolistic market to give you room to breath, and $0 is pretty amazing.

Only reason why Apple is alive is because it used BSD, and it selected a small amount of hardware to focus on. In uncharted open hardware waters if Apple consumers actually had open choice in their hardware like Linux and Windows users get, Apple would sink unless BSD drivers could save it’s sorry butt.

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By: Roy Bixler http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-3/#comment-60339 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:02:26 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60339 What Microsoft does to Dell and other PC vendors is old hat, used since at least the days of Windows 3.x. There was also a lot of evidence of that during the US DOJ vs. Microsoft case of about 10 years ago. I recall that the DOJ got some very tepid cooperation from the likes of Dell. They were scared to testify against Microsoft. Even though the DOJ supposedly won the case, the PC vendors have been proven right in their reluctance because any additional leverage they got against Microsoft in the terms of the settlement is minimal.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-2/#comment-60336 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:23:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60336 Consider what they did in Wal-Mart and how they leaned on Dell.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-2/#comment-60335 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:21:31 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60335 Always shocked there isn’t a massive lawsuit against Microsoft for forcing all computers in stores to be sold with their OS instead of being given a choice. With all the other lawsuits you hear about where companies take away consumer choice and with destroying competition, that’s one that I’ve never understood why someone doesn’t do something about.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-2/#comment-60334 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:43:30 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60334 A greater problem is that the Gates family./circles have a great influence over the government, which in turns offers Microsoft this protection (even overseas where it intervenes). There is substantial evidence.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-2/#comment-60333 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:39:30 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60333 Yes, which will help increase Linux familiarity/adoption, and to ween the masses off it if they come to fancy it and it quenches all their needs. Then the next time they buy a computer, they might just say “no I don’t want to pay more for having Windows too, I don’t need it”.

That is, if they are given the choice. Unfortunately, and ironically, real competition isn’t given a chance very much here in the U.S.. Microsoft doesn’t want to compete and play fair, but everyone already knew that.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-2/#comment-60325 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:58:01 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60325

“pressure on OEMs may be the only thing that keeps Windows afloat at this stage”

Well, that and the software selection problems still facing Linux. Windows still has the better software for it in many areas, so consumers will be paying to have that extra bit of choice if they buy Windows. Not to mention the software packaging fragmentation which distros refuse to put effort behind to resolve so that consumers have even the same choice of *Linux* software no matter what distro they choose.

This may be true, but let’s also consider the fact that OEMs could deliver multi-boot systems (or fast boot, or VMs) without additional charges. Consider the BeOS story for details.

Fortunately, that’s already changing.

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-60323 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:56:14 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60323 Well, OK, the biggest software deficits on Linux are mostly limited to webcam-compatible IM clients (come ON Jabber and Jingle, why are you taking so long??) and games. Can only hope that some of these big companies will find targeting Linux acceptable with their upcoming titles, since open source games still have a ways to go to catch up unfortunately, though Blender seems to be trying fairly hard to make game creation more accessible and there are already some really impressive Blender games. So, hopefully those things aren’t too much further away. ^^

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By: Yfrwlf http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-60321 Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:53:05 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60321 “pressure on OEMs may be the only thing that keeps Windows afloat at this stage”

Well, that and the software selection problems still facing Linux. Windows still has the better software for it in many areas, so consumers will be paying to have that extra bit of choice if they buy Windows. Not to mention the software packaging fragmentation which distros refuse to put effort behind to resolve so that consumers have even the same choice of *Linux* software no matter what distro they choose.

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By: ZiggyFish http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-60309 Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:21:14 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60309 I see Microsoft lasting til the end of the year, but if Microsoft doesn’t release Vista SP 7 soon, they won’t last 2012.

Let’s just hope these trends continue, and hope that software patients get band. Not only for us, but for IBM, AMD and other chip manufactures because without an OS, or at least an updated OS these companies will not exist.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/comment-page-1/#comment-60302 Sun, 08 Mar 2009 19:58:23 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/08/vista-7-fixes-nothing/#comment-60302 Microsoft has lobbied aggressively for the bailout.

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