Comments on: Novell Helps Microsoft Build Its World Wide Web Fortress of Lockin http://techrights.org/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Tue, 03 Jan 2017 04:31:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: gpl1 http://techrights.org/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/comment-page-1/#comment-996 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:39:06 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/#comment-996 *oops, make that “Microsoft Shared Source Common Language Infrastructure” nstead of BSD, but for FreeBSD and OS X. again non-commercial. Thank you for the grokdoc link, interesting stuff.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/comment-page-1/#comment-995 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:54:32 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/#comment-995 That is very interesting, gpl1. Here is Grokdoc’s take:

These standards [ C#/CLI] are burdened with so many patents, claim MS, that only MS can legally distribute an implementation of the .NET framework. However, the Mono developers are adamant that they do not know of any patent that they infringe on.

Outside of the legallity of reimplementing C#/CLI, is the fact that MS has done the “embrace, extend, extinguish” backwards. As seems to be usual for MS (see the final decision of the EU commision), the published standard is only a subset of MS’ implementation as is discussed

here on GL. Mono does only implement the official published standards, so MS software will be able to use applications developed on Mono, but not the other way round.

More writings on the topic are (quite luckily) tagged and therefore grouped.

http://boycottnovell.com/category/mono/

I noticed that Novell’s PR blog had posted an item to rave about Moonlight, but it seems rather selfish. They are working with Microsoft against the rest of Linux.

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By: gpl1 http://techrights.org/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/comment-page-1/#comment-993 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:51:38 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/19/mono-moonlight/#comment-993 Microsoft still holds key patents on .NET (though with KSR hopefully they’re much weaker now). YOu might like this Microsoft memo where they say they license them for only “NON-COMMERCIAL” purposes, aka when they released Rotor under FreeBSD, with a BSD license. Sounds like the hobbiest thing again, which was prevelant in the MS-Novell agreement.


Microsoft’s Response to .NET Patents

Standards, yes, but licenses required. And they’re nice enough to offer it royalty-free… for now. Somehow this is called going a step further than the standard organizations require. Maybe Jim Miller from Microsoft doesn’t understand that open standards organizations will never charge money for implementing a standard (by definition), yet corporations can change licensing terms at any time. Microsoft already changes license agreements quarterly and each stipulates that users must adhere to any changes in the future or the license is automatically revoked.

RE: [Dotnet-sscli] Microsoft applies for .Net patent
From: “Jim Miller \(.NET\)”
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:57:39 -0800
Subject: RE: [Dotnet-sscli] Microsoft applies for .Net patent
To: “Giuseppe Attardi” ,
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Thread-topic: [Dotnet-sscli] Microsoft applies for .Net patent

Beppe,

As one of the inventors on that patent as well as the person heading up
the standardization efforts for the CLI, I’d like to explain why I’ve
never felt the two are in conflict.

The ECMA process requires that all patents held by member companies that
are essential for implementing its standards are available under
“reasonable and non-discriminatory (RAND) terms” for the purpose of
implementing those Standards. This is the normal condition used in all

International Standards organizations, including both ECMA and ISO.

But Microsoft (and our co-sponsors, Intel and Hewlett-Packard) went
further and have agreed that our patents essential to implementing C#
and CLI will be available on a “royalty-free and otherwise RAND” basis
for this purpose.

Furthermore, our release of the Rotor source code base with a specific
license on its use gives wide use to our patents for a particular
(non-commercial) purpose, and as we explicitly state we are open to
additional licenses for other purposes.

–Jim

—–Original Message—–

From: Giuseppe Attardi [mailto:attardi@di.unipi.it]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:34 AM
To: dotnet-sscli@di.unipi.it
Subject: [Dotnet-sscli] Microsoft applies for .Net patent

News has been published (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-984052.html)
that Microsoft applied last year for a patent that covers .Net:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&
d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=’20030028685′.PGNR.&
OS=DN/20030028685&RS=DN/20030028685

This is quite broad claim, including all the architecture, the API, the
set of types, etc.

It concludes like this:

Although the invention has been described in language specific to
structural ii features and/or methodological acts, it is to be
understood that the invention defined in the appended claims is not
necessarily limited to the specific features or acts described. Rather,
the specific features and acts are disclosed as exemplary forms of
implementing the claimed invention.

I feel quite surprised by this news and I would like to hear your
reactions. I had had the impression that Microsoft wanted to follow the
path of standardization for .NET as the submission to ECMA seemed to
prove.

I have been supportive of the .NET approach, as a means to raise the
level of support for applications from basic OS primitives to a powerful
cross-language OO platform.

I am afraid however that a patent in this area will stifle developments,
since it will be difficult for researchers to undertake projects whose
results can only benefit a single, albeit large, company.

I understand the need for Microsoft to protect their investments in

.NET, and I was willing to accept patents on specific techniques (e.g.
the write barrier for GC), but an overall patent for the whole
architecture seems too broad.

I would like comments from Microsoft people on this issue and in
particular how this is going to affect Rotor and other initiatives based
or related to .NET.

I am afraid that this initiative might split researchers in two camps,
and only Microsoft funded projects will attract people working on .NET
technologies.

— Beppe

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