Comments on: Bill Gates: “We Should Look at Even Patenting the Things That We Do Add to Help Office” http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/ Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those threatened by software freedom Fri, 25 Nov 2016 09:41:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.14 By: The Mad Hatter http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68813 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:27:22 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68813 It’s classical Microsoft. It’s why the company is going downhill, fast. Apple concentrates on producing a product that people are willing to buy. They sell a hell of a lot of product that way, and it’s not because it’s cheap.

Microsoft tries to force you to buy, and what they end up with is a customer base that at best thinks the product is OK.

There’s a great book out by Jeffrey Gitomar called “Customer Satisfaction is Worthless, Customer Loyalty is Priceless”, and someone at Microsoft needs to read it, before they become the next General Motors.

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By: eet http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68746 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:23:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68746 You should make it clear that your comment is only based on conjecture.

If there was any evidence, we’d be reading about today’s e-mails here, not about those from 10 years ago.

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By: twitter http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68477 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:49:30 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68477 Nothing at all has changed in the last ten years for those idiots at M$. Despite protests they continue to tie Office to email and html bastardization:

Dave Greiner, a member of the Email Standards Project, was distressed in 2007 when Microsoft decided to use Microsoft Word’s relatively rudimentary technology to display HTML-encoded email in Outlook. Facing the extension of that choice in the forthcoming Office 2010, he is shouting louder for change. Greiner set up FixOutlook.org …
Microsoft previously used Internet Explorer’s HTML rendering engine to display emails formatted with HTML, which was developed to describe web pages to browsers.

The rest of us can look forward to lots of broken html email. The victims include the users who mistakenly think M$ is using web standards. The only thing less secure than IE, Outlook or Office is using all three at the same time. Idiots.

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By: reece http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68219 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:02:27 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68219 Microsoft only supported CSS 2.1 because everyone was telling them to support it.

What about SVG and MathML support (these are already published standards)?

What about HTML 5, XSL:T 2, Canvas, CSS 3 and other in-develoment standards that other web browsers are standardising on/implementing?

Microsoft only started caring about IE after they started losing market share due to better browsers. The other browsers are innovating and pushing forward.

Microsoft *has* done a good job supporting CSS 2.1 and WAI-ARIA, but they still have a long way to go.

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By: Roy Schestowitz http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68208 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:11:21 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68208

Today? These are e-mails from years ago.

Some of those same people still work for Microsoft (directly). Some work for it from the outside.

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By: Roy Bixler http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68202 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:00:15 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68202

I can’t believe they’d be talking like this today

Today? These are e-mails from years ago. In fact, they are so old that they could just as well have been exhibits in the US DoJ vs. Microsoft.

after the flap over Outlook yesterday

Could you elaborate on that?

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By: Jose_X http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68189 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:47:49 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68189 Microsoft’s stack is much larger today; IE is a much smaller part of the total today than it was then. We find evidence all over the place today of the same approach described in these old emails but applied to different parts of their stack. They also abandoned IE development to some degree to focus on other areas once they knocked off the competition (until open source Mozilla got some traction just years ago).

Recently, Microsoft started a marketing program where they claim that whatever browser you use cannot read websites as well as can their IE8 http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-18-001-35-NW-MS&tbovrmode=3#talkback_area .

The emails show it is not just about adherence to W3C standards, but that there are many more *extensions* beyond the standards that create problems.

Plus, their source is closed. That, conveniently and almost unavoidably, creates some barriers to interop even where standards are involved (subjective acid tests can help mitigate this problem).

Further, as Rob Weir showed recently with ODF formulas, Microsoft appears wholly unable or unwilling to fix their interop issues even when many other much smaller groups get it right. They even manage this failure while using the excuse that they follow the outdated standard fairly closely (which apparently they do).

Microsoft’s business model has not changed too much. Though it has become even more dependent on patents. The patent strategy and focus is revealed partially through their increased filings and other internal emails. They are still a monopolist trying to leverage monopolies to preserve their control and profits. They still use opaque closed software because closed source provides a clear barrier to interop.

A major Microsoft sell of their partnership with Novell is the alleged improved interop. This implies they are not making public the information necessary for interop but instead rely on specific partners/avenues. They still add a huge amount beyond the core standards, and even the core standards are implemented with their own set of bugs which are not published openly.

Since Microsoft appears unwilling or unable to travel the same number of miles much smaller competitors travel for the sake of interop, I think antitrust authorities should consider requiring Microsoft to open source at least the parts of their software stack that have been commoditized. They would have to reveal, for example, the details of their core OS features and the details to the old Win32 API (their functions are old and common, if perhaps the interop details still remain obscured). Ditto should go for the vast majority of IE and most other software, especially where Microsoft software does not offer improved performance or any other significant benefit beyond interop.

I think it’s safe to say that interop failures with competing products, and not innovation, is responsible for Microsoft’s dominance today to a very large extent. They are under-priced by open source and by many other vendors, don’t offer the same level of transparency as open source, and sometimes lag in features, yet a major reason for Microsoft being chosen over others today is still the fear of and substantiated interop issues. Microsoft does not mix well with competitors.

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By: DiamondWakizashi http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68121 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:16:24 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68121 Here is a funny article that explains why Internet Explorer is terrible:

http://www.creativestable.com/blog/stop-lying-yourself-internet-explorer-you-bag-shit-motherfucker

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By: Anon http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68043 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:36:03 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68043 And your comment might held water if not for examples like the OOXML fiasco that show that Microsoft’s attitudes toward standards and lock-in have changed very little since then.

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By: aeshna23 http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68039 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:27:41 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68039 Dude,

The point is that the article says a lot of Microsoft’s attitude today. And that attitude is directly related to the issue of Mono.

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By: Cam http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-68002 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:50:06 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-68002 Great post! This is the kind of thing people need to know about. I can’t believe they’d be talking like this today, after the flap over Outlook yesterday. Will Microsoft never learn???

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By: eet http://techrights.org/2009/06/25/bill-gates-office-patents/comment-page-1/#comment-67988 Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:45:33 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/?p=13850#comment-67988 Not that I like IE, but a lot has changed since 1998; namely a turnaround in its adherence to the 3WC standards…

Thumbs down for another unneccessary article.

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