IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 25th, 2009

DaemonFCI don't believe in marriageMay 25 00:00
DaemonFC:)May 25 00:00
twitterthat's a good thing.May 25 00:00
twitterfor everyone elseMay 25 00:00
DaemonFChow is that?May 25 00:00
DaemonFCbiology says have kids, even though they don't benefit youMay 25 00:00
DaemonFCeven though they may get you in troubleMay 25 00:01
twitteryou know as much about raising children and women as you do about gnu/linux, FCMay 25 00:01
DaemonFCI say I'll take what ever I can get and keep as much of it for myself as I canMay 25 00:01
DaemonFC:)May 25 00:01
DaemonFClife is bullshit enough without sticking your neck outMay 25 00:02
MinceRDaemonFC: as long as you don't have kids, we're better off :>May 25 00:02
DaemonFCthere's worse people than me having themMay 25 00:03
twitterit is a shame he is so selfish, but he has his match in WindowsMay 25 00:03
DaemonFCwhy should this make any difference?May 25 00:03
MinceRthat's no excuseMay 25 00:03
oiaohmPlease don't be the wikipedia pages built by net applications DaemonFCMay 25 00:04
DaemonFCthere's a number of them on hereMay 25 00:04
oiaohmFar as I know wikipedia does not generate there own stats.May 25 00:05
DaemonFCthe results that favor you the most still say 2.1% for LinuxMay 25 00:05
DaemonFCbut that's W3 SchoolsMay 25 00:05
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twitterpolluters hijack climate control meeting. 25 00:07
DaemonFCtwitter: 25 00:08
oiaohm  << Yep true wikipedia stats  don't include OS.May 25 00:08
DaemonFCthey developed a browser for youMay 25 00:08
oiaohmI really wish they did.May 25 00:08
oiaohmIt one be one place that does get a good cross section.May 25 00:08
twitterI suspect that anyplace that reports OS statistics will be hit with a DDoS to game those statisticsMay 25 00:09
twitterwikipedia seems to rely on comscore for their statistics. 25 00:14
twitterthey seem so grateful for this that they accept what is given.May 25 00:14
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twitter" Finally a quick thank you to comScore. The data they donated typically sells for thousands and thousands of dollars, so we're lucky to be able to review. Speaking on behalf of all of us in the community, I want to thank them for their support."May 25 00:15
twitterthe OS for autistic children must have let FC down.May 25 00:15
twitterZac Browser.  I wonder how FC came across that.May 25 00:16
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twitterIt is interesting that M$ feels such a need to lie about GNU/Linux use.May 25 00:18
oiaohm1 percent of the world is still a lot of people.May 25 00:19
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twittergreed fest and massive sleaze around 25 00:37
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twitter-> "Tullock took control of the domain name about 13 years ago, when he was running an internet-marketing company, LocalSeek Advertising. He used and other domains to advertise his services, which included a relocation business. Microsoft introduced Live Search in 2006, hosting the search engine on domain that it does own (Tullock says he never tried to challenge Microsoft's decision to call its search engMay 25 00:38
twitternow they try to get it from him by various proxies and other sneak attacks.May 25 00:39
twitterLOL, " Tullock runs a chain of seven music schools in the Seattle area, and parks Google (NSDQ: GOOG) ads on "It makes me plenty of money sending all that Microsoft business to Google," he says. Tullock won't disclose how much the site brings in."May 25 00:39
tacone 25 00:40
twitteryou used the words "microsoft" and "standards" in the same sentence!May 25 00:41
taconeme ? it's a linkMay 25 00:41
taconeeven "microsoft" and "xml" should never be put togetherMay 25 00:42
twitterit's a terrible link, but thanksMay 25 00:42
taconejust usual stuffMay 25 00:42
taconepatent trollsMay 25 00:42
twitterthe author seems completely ignorant of the OOXML scandal saga.May 25 00:44
twitterblames M$ patent fine on XML, truly stupid spinMay 25 00:45
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twitterho ho, something fun and interesting 25 00:51
twitterNovell vrs M$ anti-trust news.  They are trying to depose bill gatesMay 25 00:52
twitterit seems they did depose him and GL has the transcript. 25 00:53
twitterIt's all the same kind of shit you see in all these things.  Bill does not know anything, ha ha.May 25 00:54
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twittersomehow they managed to reduce the standard deposition from 7 to 4 hours but Mr. Gates walked out in a huff after 3 hours.May 25 01:09
twitterHe had a complete hissy fit and left the lawyers to cover his ass.May 25 01:10
twitterPJ has this to say about the layers rude defense of Gates even ruder behavior, "Microsoft must send its lawyers to the same charm school as its trolls and shills"May 25 01:11
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Here's one for youMay 25 01:14
DaemonFCWindows 7 will cost more than Vista according to a DellexecutiveMay 25 01:14
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DaemonFChe was apparently worried that the price will put people offMay 25 01:14
DaemonFCso it must be quite a bit moreMay 25 01:15
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DaemonFCthat's gonna be kind of funny, watch the Home Premium edition be $300 or something after all these people were using the RC for freeMay 25 01:16
DaemonFCI remember Microsoft's argument when Vista failed to take off was "Oh well, everyone that buys a new PC will get it anyway"May 25 01:17
DaemonFCIt was like DenialMay 25 01:17
DaemonFCthen there was Anger, Depression, Bargaining, and oh shit, just kill it nowMay 25 01:18
DaemonFCAnger would have been MojaveMay 25 01:18
twitterI wonder if the more expensive versions will come with "downgrade rights"?May 25 01:19
DaemonFCBusiness/Professional always doesMay 25 01:19
DaemonFCHome and Ultimate won'tMay 25 01:19
DaemonFCEnterprise willMay 25 01:19
twitterThat seemed to work for Vista, but what will they downgrade to this time?May 25 01:19
twitterLOLMay 25 01:19
DaemonFCXP Pro had downgrade rights to Windows 2000May 25 01:19
DaemonFCbut I never heard of many people doing thatMay 25 01:20
twitterthe OS they paid extra money to avoid last time?May 25 01:20
DaemonFCwell, the US Army has seen Windows 7 and is putting in Vista SP2May 25 01:20
DaemonFCso that may be a hintMay 25 01:20
DaemonFCI mean why would they buy Vista if they had any plans to go to 7?May 25 01:21
twitterno, it's probably a matter of the US Army being bullheaded and finishing what they started.May 25 01:21
DaemonFCI mean MS may have offered them the "free upgrade" thing or somethingMay 25 01:21
DaemonFCwho knowsMay 25 01:21
DaemonFCthey can be much more reasonable when hundreds of thousands of sales are at stakeMay 25 01:21
twitteryou can be sure M$ is milking the Army for all they can.May 25 01:21
twitterIt may also be a sort of bail out.May 25 01:22
DaemonFCthey have Volume Liensing which is far less expensive than even OEM versionsMay 25 01:22
twitterWhat's sure is that West Point knows better than to use Windows.May 25 01:22
DaemonFCso they probably got Vista for $50 a copyMay 25 01:22
DaemonFCjust a guessMay 25 01:22
DaemonFCthey have a lot of wiggle room in their licensing agreements and price depending on who you are and how much you buy from themMay 25 01:23
twitterThey should not use any copy of Windows even if it was donated - it's not like M$ pays taxes.May 25 01:23
DaemonFCif you have a VLK or OEM agreement, you'll never even see Product ActivatorMay 25 01:23
DaemonFCThey use Windows on quite a few systemsMay 25 01:24
twitterM$ sucks all sorts of money out of government.  It is a crime.May 25 01:24
DaemonFCthey only go with something else when it has to store sensitive dataMay 25 01:24
DaemonFCbut Bitlocker made some improvements on thatMay 25 01:24
DaemonFCused to be encryption built into the file systemMay 25 01:24
DaemonFCthat's still what you have with LinuxMay 25 01:25
twitterhere you go, with links to people who know better 25 01:25
twitterPeople in the Army who really know about computer security don't use Windows.May 25 01:25
DaemonFCEFS is more flexible but Bitlocker is for encrypting the whole volumeMay 25 01:25
DaemonFCEFS is in Business, Ultimate is EFS and Bitlocker, your choiceMay 25 01:26
DaemonFCHome editions don't have either oneMay 25 01:26
twitterI've got whole volume encryption on this laptop.  It was a setup choice for Lenny.  I could have just done a partition, but I decided to go for LVM with encryption to see how it does.May 25 01:26
twitterit is a little slower than non encryptionMay 25 01:27
DaemonFCright, but I don't think Linux can use the TPM for thatMay 25 01:27
DaemonFCcan it?May 25 01:27
DaemonFCI know there's kernel support for a TPMMay 25 01:27
twitterI would not want to use TPM.May 25 01:27
DaemonFCthe TPM isn't dangerous, some theoretical uses of it areMay 25 01:27
twitterWhy use a non free hardware dongle?  You should never trust something like that.May 25 01:27
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DaemonFCThe TPM is ike a chainsaw, you can use it as a tool or rip someone to shredsMay 25 01:28
twitterTPM would be OK if you could fully program it with free software.  You can't, so it's not something you should trust.May 25 01:28
DaemonFCbut the chainsaw isn't good or bad by itselfMay 25 01:28
twitterTPM is like windows.  You don't know what's inside, so you don't really know how good or bad it is.May 25 01:28
DaemonFCPGP Whole Disk Encryption can use the TPMMay 25 01:29
DaemonFCso there you go, a bitlocker for LinuxMay 25 01:29
twitterfree software can do anything you wantMay 25 01:30
DaemonFCeventually it's just going to be part of every motherboardMay 25 01:30
twitteryou can, I think, just ignore it if you wantMay 25 01:30
DaemonFCwell yeahMay 25 01:30
DaemonFCnothing forces you to use itMay 25 01:30
twitterIf you can't you don't want the board.May 25 01:30
DaemonFCthe chip itself is not badMay 25 01:31
DaemonFCtheoretical uses of it could beMay 25 01:31
twitterlike I said, you don't know what's in there, so you don't know how bad or good it is.May 25 01:31
twitterpeople who write software for hard drives worry about the risk IDE controllers themselves pose.  non free computing is treacherousMay 25 01:32
DaemonFC 25 01:32
DaemonFCanyone who's anyone in the computing world is a memberMay 25 01:32
DaemonFCincluding a lot of Linux and open source companiesMay 25 01:33
twitterI don't think you will find EFF or FSF on that list.May 25 01:33
DaemonFCYou won't be able to put together a computer without itMay 25 01:33
DaemonFCso the software at that point is irrelevantMay 25 01:33
DaemonFCit's not like Richard Stallman can command this to stopMay 25 01:34
DaemonFCor like he can tell Torvalds to take it out of the kernelMay 25 01:34
DaemonFCwhere the drivers already areMay 25 01:34
DaemonFCso he doesn't matterMay 25 01:34
twittergood luck selling that crap.May 25 01:34
DaemonFCevery OS and every hardware maker will support itMay 25 01:35
twitteryou see how well "you have no choice" worked for VistaMay 25 01:35
DaemonFCyou will not be able to put a system together without oneMay 25 01:35
DaemonFCyeah, well, this is differentMay 25 01:35
twitterdo you think hardware makers will try to pull this shit now?May 25 01:35
twitteryes you doMay 25 01:35
DaemonFCif you can conjure up your own hardware then good luckMay 25 01:35
twitterI don't need more hardware at that rate, neither do most people who don't run Windows.May 25 01:36
DaemonFCyou will eventuallyMay 25 01:36
DaemonFCyou can't park yourself there while the world changes around youMay 25 01:36
twitteractually, FC, I canMay 25 01:36
twitterbut thanks for the heads up.May 25 01:37
DaemonFCmaybe for a few yearsMay 25 01:37
DaemonFCbut the PC will be too obsolete to keep using eventuallyMay 25 01:37
twitterLong enough for M$ and others to go out of business.May 25 01:37
twitterOEMs are already burnt by Vista.  I doubt they will pull any stupid stunts soon.May 25 01:38
DaemonFCthey'll keep on goingMay 25 01:39
DaemonFCit's not that they aren't selling systems or that MS isn't selling VistaMay 25 01:39
DaemonFCpeople wipe over the disk and the OS they paid for and put XP on itMay 25 01:39
twitterThe thing that really killed Vista, besides stability, was that companies did not trust it.May 25 01:40
DaemonFCMicrosoft still made moneyMay 25 01:40
twitterDo you think OEMs are going to try to sell hostile hardware after a software failure like that?May 25 01:40
DaemonFCyeah they areMay 25 01:41
DaemonFChardware makers, MS, and the recording and movie and video game industries need each otherMay 25 01:42
DaemonFCthey know that if any of them went under, the whole thing would unravelMay 25 01:43
DaemonFCto undermine Microsoft would undermine themselvesMay 25 01:43
taconewhat's the best operative system ? linux choosen by 80%+ of the commenters 25 01:43
tacone(it's a generic magazine)May 25 01:44
*DaemonFC is making a backupMay 25 01:47
DaemonFCclean copy to go back to if something happensMay 25 01:47
DaemonFCnever a bad ideaMay 25 01:47
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_Hicham_Hi All!May 25 01:50
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DaemonFCit occurs to meMay 25 01:54
DaemonFCthat that woman complaining about her Mac not being able to transfer her files and settings over wouldn't have had that problem if thee Mac had a Complete PC Backup-like featureMay 25 01:55
neighborleeschestowitz: interesting..HEX has been doing his usual hexxxing of unsuspecting ubuntu users again..I caught this I just installed ubuntu viva wubi, and going through REMOVING mono from synatpic, I found evolution mentioning 'mono'...Ive NO idea what thats up...??May 25 01:55
_Hicham_everything occurs to uMay 25 01:55
DaemonFCyou can easily clone an in place Vista system with that and transfer it over to your new PCMay 25 01:55
DaemonFCit's not official, but it worksMay 25 01:55
DaemonFCcause the new one probably also has a SLP key in the BIOS, so all you need is the authorization certificate pulled out of the Windows installation on thatMay 25 01:56
DaemonFC:PMay 25 01:56
DaemonFCOEMs use an XML file with their digital signatureMay 25 01:57
twittermost people have yet to see a reason for Vista in the first place, FC.May 25 01:57
neighborleeschestowitz: 25 01:58
DaemonFCheh, their problemMay 25 01:58
twittermostly M$'s problem at the momentMay 25 01:58
DaemonFCif they were smart enough to tweak a few settings, they'd never go back to XPMay 25 01:58
neighborleetwitter: well ,,linux is the land of the free, but its not always brave when it comes to all hardware people need and want to IS a problem linux has yet to address completely Im afraid.May 25 01:59
DaemonFCthank youMay 25 01:59
twitterSo they buy a Dell, with Ubuntu :)May 25 01:59
DaemonFCwhen it works, it's spectacular, and it usually keeps working, when it doesn't you have a functionless device that is humming and burning electricityMay 25 01:59
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DaemonFCLinux even snubs popular name brand hardwareMay 25 02:00
DaemonFCfrom time to timeMay 25 02:00
neighborleeyes and its ridiculous.May 25 02:00
DaemonFCand I'm just the lucky one on this systemMay 25 02:00
neighborleenvidia to name one.May 25 02:00
DaemonFCmeh, Nvidia works wellMay 25 02:00
DaemonFCbut you really still have to plan a system around what Linux supportsMay 25 02:01
neighborleeof course it can TELL that by the warning you get during the 'restricted driver' setup ;)May 25 02:01
DaemonFCpiece by pieceMay 25 02:01
twitterquit trolling FC, you know that it's the other way around - hardware makers snub freedom for themselves and othersMay 25 02:01
DaemonFCif you bring a full system to it, some of it will work and part of it may notMay 25 02:01
twitterand you also know that hardware problems are rare these daysMay 25 02:01
DaemonFCnot rareMay 25 02:01
DaemonFCquite commonMay 25 02:01
twitterYes, you told us this earlier.May 25 02:02
neighborleetwitter: it happens both way I believe....May 25 02:02
DaemonFCwhen I have to compile kernel mods for things that are freeMay 25 02:02
DaemonFCand excluded for political reasonsMay 25 02:02
neighborleehmMay 25 02:02
twitteryou don't run linux FCMay 25 02:02
DaemonFCxpad360 driver is GPL 2May 25 02:02
DaemonFCbut out of the kernelMay 25 02:02
twitterwhy do you care?May 25 02:02
twitterwhy are you here?May 25 02:02
DaemonFClicensing is free but since it's Microsoft hardware, the kernel devs are assholesMay 25 02:03
DaemonFCand let people that own it not have a functional game padMay 25 02:03
twitterughMay 25 02:03
DaemonFCthe only Microsoft hardware they don't discriminate agains are mice and keyboards cause those have the same device IDs as Logitech hardwareMay 25 02:05
neighborleeDaemonFC: you can always petition for drivers if you feel they aren't working right yadda...have you tried..if not it cant hurtMay 25 02:06
_Hicham_DaemonFC is reverse engineering NT kernelMay 25 02:06
DaemonFCI'm not the only one that's askedMay 25 02:07
DaemonFCtalking to a wallMay 25 02:07
DaemonFCit'll wind up in there if a kernel developer ever buys oneMay 25 02:07
neighborlee:)May 25 02:07
twitterneighborlee, I think there's a more recent FSF damnation of mono.  You should look for it or ask Roy.May 25 02:08
DaemonFCwhy a damnation when they support implementing it?May 25 02:08
DaemonFCyou mean damning the guys who made one that works more likelyMay 25 02:08
DaemonFCthey do that you know?May 25 02:08
twitterWith distros dumping mono left and right, chances are it's because Roy is right about it.May 25 02:08
DaemonFCdotGNU?May 25 02:09
DaemonFChello?May 25 02:09
twitterFSF does not advocate mono use, FC.  quit bullshit.May 25 02:09
DaemonFCsame thingMay 25 02:09
taconegood point.May 25 02:09
DaemonFCbut like most FSF projects, it peters out half way through without putting forth anything that really works rightMay 25 02:09
twittergo play with your Vista box, FC.May 25 02:09
DaemonFCtheir compilers and libraries are the exceptionMay 25 02:10
_Hicham_the pb isn't with .NETMay 25 02:10
taconehe's right on dotGnuMay 25 02:10
taconewhat's the difference ?May 25 02:10
_Hicham_it is with licensingMay 25 02:10
DaemonFCnone at allMay 25 02:10
_Hicham_there is a big difference taconeMay 25 02:10
DaemonFCthere's not one shred of difference other than Windows.Forms which is optional in MonoMay 25 02:10
taconeyes, the license may be difference.May 25 02:10
taconedifferent.May 25 02:10
_Hicham_licensingMay 25 02:10
DaemonFCpatens are still violatedMay 25 02:11
DaemonFCpossiblyMay 25 02:11
twitterWell, one is a GNU project for compatibility and the other is written by a M$ collaborator as a trap.May 25 02:11
DaemonFC think that's the bigger concernMay 25 02:11
taconestill, there's another differenceMay 25 02:11
taconemono patents concerns are legitimated by the mono distributor itself.May 25 02:11
_Hicham_DaemonFC-sharp, that is ur mono versionMay 25 02:11
twitterbogus patents, but your chances of violating them are greater if you use the trap versionMay 25 02:11
_Hicham_DaemonFC-cli : cli binding for DaemonFCMay 25 02:11
DaemonFCwell, without Windows Forms, it's not as compatibleMay 25 02:12
DaemonFCso you may as well not botherMay 25 02:12
twitterIt is better to avoid both and just use gpl'd javaMay 25 02:12
DaemonFCwho knows....personally if they can make a C# that isbulletproof legal-wise, then I support itMay 25 02:12
DaemonFCbecause it's just a languageMay 25 02:13
twitterwhy waste time chasing second rate M$ crap?May 25 02:13
DaemonFCMono obviously is not a good implementation for several reasonsMay 25 02:13
DaemonFCtwitter: You sound like you're about 12, so I'll go easy on youMay 25 02:13
DaemonFCbut C and C++ were from AT&TMay 25 02:13
DaemonFCwho were the Microsoft of that timeMay 25 02:13
DaemonFCand GNU recreated not only those, but their entire operating systemMay 25 02:14
DaemonFCso the source of the software might have been dodgy, but their stuff was usefulMay 25 02:14
DaemonFCor nobody would have taken itMay 25 02:14
taconeofflining byeMay 25 02:14
_Hicham_Microsoft won't make an Open Source languageMay 25 02:14
DaemonFCC and C++ were proprietaryMay 25 02:15
_Hicham_they want profit from itMay 25 02:15
DaemonFCso was UNIXMay 25 02:15
DaemonFCyou can't defend that and blast C#May 25 02:15
_Hicham_bye taconeMay 25 02:15
neighborleetwitter: seriously ??May 25 02:15
_Hicham_but they were standardized afterMay 25 02:15
neighborleetwitter: interseting..ty for update, I shall google in the meantimeMay 25 02:15
neighborleetwitter: about time if so ..and..great news ;))))May 25 02:16
DaemonFCyeah, well, this is the same deal, the problems with Mono are the license and that they implement parts that were not made public standardsMay 25 02:16
neighborleeclearlyMay 25 02:16
DaemonFCI think that's the reason for dotGNUMay 25 02:16
_Hicham_standardize C# DaemonFC, and everyone will go with uMay 25 02:16
DaemonFCthey obviously see it that wayMay 25 02:16
neighborleebut the supporters tell everyone that has no idea..that dettractors are clueless FUD'ers...May 25 02:16
neighborleeDaemonFC: requires constant vigilenceMay 25 02:16
_Hicham_GNU deals with standardsMay 25 02:17
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DaemonFCMicrosoft also standardized a lot of stuff implemented by Opera, Mozilla, Google, and KDEMay 25 02:17
DaemonFCand anyone else with a rendering engineMay 25 02:17
DaemonFCas W3C standardsMay 25 02:17
_Hicham_there is no problem with thatMay 25 02:18
DaemonFCusually what happens is, there's no standard way to do something, so Microsoft creates one and puts it into IE, and from there they submit it to W3CMay 25 02:18
_Hicham_they were the first company to support CSSMay 25 02:18
DaemonFCand AJAXMay 25 02:18
DaemonFCXmlHttpRequestMay 25 02:19
_Hicham_did u work for MS before DaemonFC?May 25 02:19
DaemonFCnoMay 25 02:19
DaemonFCthere would be nothing stopping me or you or Mozilla or anyone from doing the same thingMay 25 02:20
_Hicham_if they offer u a job, would u accept it?May 25 02:20
DaemonFCthey're huge, they have an impact on the industry, if they collapse a lot of that would go onMay 25 02:20
DaemonFClike AT&T UNIX to LinuxMay 25 02:21
DaemonFCmeh, hypothetically if I had a skill they wanted and the money was rightMay 25 02:21
DaemonFCbut hell, that's any jobMay 25 02:22
twitterso, FC, you just troll here for fun?May 25 02:22
DaemonFCRed Hat may seem huge, but they only have a little over 2,000 employeesMay 25 02:22
twitterothers admit to being paid for that.May 25 02:22
twitterwhat drives you?May 25 02:23
DaemonFCanyway, my movie is starting in 20 minutesMay 25 02:23
DaemonFCback in a bitMay 25 02:23
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twitterstrange, you would think a Vista guy could record a movie and watch it on his own time.May 25 02:26
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twitterso much for all that hardware and no DRM talk of his.May 25 02:26
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neighborleehahahMay 25 03:55
*neighborlee just got a warning from the gods at ubuntu forums..May 25 03:55
neighborleeONE DEMERITMay 25 03:56
neighborleefor bringing up a nonsensical reply in a all but dead topic ;))May 25 03:56
neighborleeOH im so hurt ;))May 25 03:56
neighborleepfft.May 25 03:56
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neighborleeYou have received an infraction at Ubuntu Forums.May 25 03:56
neighborleeReason: Flame baitMay 25 03:56
neighborleeroflMay 25 03:57
neighborleeschestowitz: yeah..I was trying to warn someone about a FUD comment made by directHEX, and I get a demerit warning for flame baiting....May 25 03:57
neighborleeHello,May 25 03:57
neighborleeYou know our standpoint on this issue. You even say so in your post. This has been discussed to the point of dead horse beating. There's no reason to bring it up again, especially for a thread that's over two months old.May 25 03:57
neighborleeThank you,May 25 03:57
neighborleedmizerMay 25 03:57
neighborleein case they ban me from forums..its ON THE RECORD.May 25 03:58
ushimitsudoki link?May 25 03:58
neighborleeI cant give a link to thisMay 25 04:00
neighborleethe ubuntu moderator sent me a PM...May 25 04:00
neighborleeie: notificationMay 25 04:00
ushimitsudokito the thread?May 25 04:00
neighborleeIll try to find the url for forum post I made though that       brought this action against me.May 25 04:00
neighborleeone secMay 25 04:01
neighborleeI was searching earlier, but could not find it....ill try again, they may have removed it entirely...May 25 04:01
neighborleeyeah I cant find it,,likely it was removed..searching for all my posts isnt retrieving it at allMay 25 04:04
neighborleeit was posted in general help...ive looked there and thread seems gone completelyMay 25 04:04
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neighborleeapparantly, I hit a nerve LOLMay 25 04:10
neighborleeI thought I would have been able to find thread, but so far no luck....May 25 04:11
neighborleemaybe I have it bookmarked in windows...brbMay 25 04:12
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neighborleeushimitsudoki:no luck here either..thanks for asking about it anyway, but it seems to have been deleted  or moved somewhere that Im not finding it atm....May 25 04:19
neighborleeushimitsudoki: found it: 25 04:25
neighborleeushimitsudoki: my post was removed...;)May 25 04:25
neighborleebut I have it from the PM he sent me..May 25 04:26
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DaemonFC 25 04:58
DaemonFCheheMay 25 04:58
twitter" well over two times more demanding then FireFox." Nice!May 25 05:07
DaemonFCthat's an achievementMay 25 05:08
DaemonFC:PMay 25 05:08
DaemonFCyou have to try to be more bloated than FirefoxMay 25 05:08
DaemonFCFirefox uses more RAM than Ubuntu after you'd had it open for a while :)May 25 05:10
DaemonFCweb browsers are all getting fatter, it's what you get with kitchen sink designMay 25 05:11
twitter400 MB, wowMay 25 05:11
DaemonFCpeople won't be happy with Chrome til its got an extension system and is buckling under its own weight eitherMay 25 05:11
twitterKonq does 10 sites in 100 MBMay 25 05:11
DaemonFC:)May 25 05:11
twitterand file browsing with sftpMay 25 05:12
DaemonFCwell, Firefox isn't a native application on any OSMay 25 05:12
twitterthey gear it to Winblows, I'm afraid.May 25 05:12
DaemonFCit draws it's own interface in XUL and XPCOMMay 25 05:12
DaemonFCand then uses GTK+ (on Linux) as a maskMay 25 05:12
DaemonFCno, this is what you get with portabilityMay 25 05:13
DaemonFCmost of Firefox's worst problems are because of XUL/XPCOMMay 25 05:13
DaemonFCand not writing native interfaces in C++ insteadMay 25 05:13
twitterkonq has portabilityMay 25 05:13
DaemonFCthat's apparently on the table for Firefox 4May 25 05:13
DaemonFCno, I mean Firefox is pretty trivial to portMay 25 05:14
twitterkpart is on safari and you have told me that you've run konq on VistaMay 25 05:14
DaemonFCand a lot of it is because they creted their own OS-neutral languageMay 25 05:14
DaemonFCKHTML took major surgery to port to OS XMay 25 05:14
twitterC is about as OS neutral as you can find.May 25 05:14
DaemonFConce they had Webkit it was easy to port to WindowsMay 25 05:14
DaemonFCnopeMay 25 05:14
twitter?May 25 05:15
DaemonFCXUL was made to be truly independentMay 25 05:15
DaemonFCnever have to rewrite it at allMay 25 05:15
twitterand C was not?May 25 05:15
DaemonFCit's overglorified XMLMay 25 05:15
twittersomewhere under it is some kind of OS glue, the language does not matter.May 25 05:15
DaemonFCinterestingly enough Microsoft had the same idea as MozillaMay 25 05:16
DaemonFCthey were going to write the user interface for Windows in XAMLMay 25 05:16
DaemonFC:)May 25 05:16
DaemonFCthat got ditchedMay 25 05:16
DaemonFCcause it turns out that XML interface languages are slow as shitMay 25 05:16
DaemonFClolMay 25 05:16
DaemonFCwhich is why Mozilla is trying to get away from thatMay 25 05:16
twitterM$ rejects standards and it's not for performance as IE8 and Vista clearly show.May 25 05:17
DaemonFCXUL isn't a standardMay 25 05:17
DaemonFCit's a specificationMay 25 05:17
DaemonFCbut it's only used by Mozilla stuffMay 25 05:18
DaemonFCSongbird....pffftMay 25 05:18
twitterthere have been several XML standards over the yearsMay 25 05:18
DaemonFCI was horrified when MS was tossing around the idea of writing the Windows interface in XMLMay 25 05:18
DaemonFCyou think Vista is slow now, XML intface would make this look like a Formula 1 racerMay 25 05:19
DaemonFC*interfaceMay 25 05:19
DaemonFCwell, people were "shocked" that Server 2008 was using less resources, having UAC and Windows Defender turned on guzzles RAM and CPU timeMay 25 05:22
DaemonFCflip those off and Vista is as fast as XPMay 25 05:22
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DaemonFCServer 2008 flips both of those, and AERO, and a bunch of other things offMay 25 05:22
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twitteranother blackboard bites the dust 25 05:31
twitterit is good to see those things thrown out for free software.May 25 05:32
twitteroh yeah, your article comes from Randal Kennedy.May 25 05:33
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twitterthanks for the tip, FC 25 05:47
twitterthe problem with Vista and Windows 7 is that you won't be able to flip off IE8.May 25 05:49
twittersoon enough, they will shove it down your throat the way they did IE7May 25 05:49
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DaemonFCI'd like to be able to pin IE 8 to the floor and empty 3 or 4 clips into itMay 25 06:00
DaemonFCbut we can't always have what we wantMay 25 06:00
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DaemonFCand for some reason Windows sees my Mpeg-4 AAC files as Mpeg-2 AACMay 25 06:03
DaemonFC:PMay 25 06:03
twitterwhat does Windows see here ? 25 06:28
twitteryou can get better versions from the site, 25 06:33
twitterFrom the people who made Star Wreck, the most entertaining thing out of Finland since Linux.May 25 06:34
twitterSaw Star Treck and saw Star Wreck, Wreck rules.May 25 06:35
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schestowitzneighborlee: 25 07:07
neighborleecheckjingMay 25 07:07
neighborleeschestowitz: LOLMay 25 07:09
neighborleeschestowitz: as if anyone is surprised...nice thx indeed for showng me ....makes me feel good seeing this, after getting a 'infraction ' notice on ubuntu forums for simply trying to make clear that FUD as directHEX likes to label the 'opposition' to mono is anything but FUD...May 25 07:11
neighborleeschestowitz: and my post was removed..though I have it here in P:M I was sent about infraction so its hardly lost.May 25 07:11
neighborleejust a fyiMay 25 07:11
neighborleeoh btwMay 25 07:12
schestowitzYes, good guys labeled 'terrorists'May 25 07:12
neighborleeschestowitz: whats this about fsf and taking a mono stand lately ??May 25 07:13
schestowitzFUD... or whateverMay 25 07:13
neighborleeyupMay 25 07:13
schestowitzSicne when are .NETers the ones with authority?May 25 07:13
neighborleeschestowitz: as if that was going to scare me off.....they dont know me at all.May 25 07:13
schestowitzIt's like Microsofters take controlMay 25 07:13
neighborleeschestowitz: trying to. ;)May 25 07:13
neighborleeschestowitz: I  think twitter mentioned it so I thought to ask youMay 25 07:14
neighborleeschestowitz: I mean about fsf stance on monoMay 25 07:14
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schestowitzI know of no "stance"May 25 07:14
schestowitzRMS does not like MonoMay 25 07:14
schestowitzIt's riskyMay 25 07:14
schestowitzAnd dotgnu was taken off the priority listMay 25 07:15
neighborleeyup , that I knewMay 25 07:15
neighborleehe said avoid mono , when we can clearly use something else, why bother over a few appsMay 25 07:15
neighborlee'over a few apps'..maybe that is why they are pushing to get rid of rhythmbox..and now SElinux GUI ? ;))May 25 07:15
neighborleehmmmmMay 25 07:15
neighborleeI mean creation of SEadmin..whatever its called..using monoMay 25 07:16
schestowitzWindows fan finds out Vista7 is too fat for netbiooks: ( Windows 7 netbook performance: can MS make it faster? )May 25 07:16
schestowitz"Why is this? What has Microsoft added to the RC code to slow things down? Why does XP still feel so much faster than Windows 7, when earlier Windows 7 builds screamed along on netbooks in comparison?"May 25 07:17
neighborleeschestowitz: lolMay 25 07:17
schestowitzWho made this selinux GUI?May 25 07:18
schestowitzAny way to find out?May 25 07:18
neighborleedont recall from post I can check for other infoMay 25 07:18
schestowitzBTW, he E-mailed me about Mono...May 25 07:20
schestowitzEnough is enough.. time for truthMay 25 07:20
neighborleerms did ?May 25 07:20
neighborleeschestowitz: SEadmin btw: 25 07:21
schestowitzNo, SamMay 25 07:21
schestowitzIs there anoter admin front end to selinux>?May 25 07:21
neighborlee 25 07:22
neighborleeschestowitz: faik, just fedora'sMay 25 07:22
schestowitzYossi Ozani  makes seadminMay 25 07:22
neighborleeyesMay 25 07:22
twitterah yes, RMS said avoid mono - that's what I remember.May 25 07:23
twitterDaemonFC trolled low enough to say FSF recommended mono.May 25 07:24
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DaemonFCnoMay 25 07:25
DaemonFCI said they had dotgnuMay 25 07:25
DaemonFCmaybe your split personality disorder is acting upMay 25 07:25
DaemonFCare the gremlins telling you to do things?May 25 07:26
DaemonFCthings you don't want to do?May 25 07:26
_Goblingood mornin allMay 25 07:26
neighborleehi thereMay 25 07:27
DaemonFCanyway, movie was goodMay 25 07:28
twitteryou said "they support implementing it [mono]" and then dragged along to talk about all the nice standards M$ invents because there's no standard way of doing things.  pure troll.May 25 07:28
DaemonFCthey even CGI'd Arnold Schwarzenegger in at the endMay 25 07:28
DaemonFCnice touchMay 25 07:28
_GoblinMicrosoft has standards??????May 25 07:28
neighborleelolMay 25 07:28
twitterglad you enjoyed it.  did you use your media center to record it?May 25 07:28
twitterbe sure to share!May 25 07:29
neighborleemaybe silverlightMay 25 07:29
DaemonFCnah, I did see the preview for it in Media CenterMay 25 07:29
schestowitz_Goblin: morning..May 25 07:30 for a minute...May 25 07:31
DaemonFCI've got it rigged to rip, burn, and play Vorbis and FLACMay 25 07:35
DaemonFC:)May 25 07:35
DaemonFCI've also got it to where it can control my cable boxMay 25 07:36
DaemonFCahh the tangled web we weave :PMay 25 07:36
DaemonFCbeats the guide on my cable box too, the one on the box is slooooooooooooowMay 25 07:37
twitterNice article by Sam there, Roy.  Looks like independent confirmation of most of what you have been saying about mono for months if not years.May 25 07:37
schestowitzYearsMay 25 07:38
DaemonFCuggghMay 25 07:45
DaemonFCit indexed the pay per view porn channels tooMay 25 07:45
DaemonFClmaoMay 25 07:45
DaemonFCso much for family friendlyMay 25 07:45
neighborleetwitter: indeed it is...we all feel SO vindicated..though sad that few took heed of the warnings years agoMay 25 07:46
neighborleetwitter: I was voicing this concern years ago in fedora forums along with another user...fell oh deaf ears--May 25 07:46
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oiaohm  << Seen this yet schestowitzMay 25 07:55
neighborleeyup he knows ;)May 25 07:56
neighborleehe showed to me not long ago...and WOOT ;0-May 25 07:57
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schestowitz 25 08:22
schestowitzBillG grilled again: 25 08:22
neighborleeschestowitz: yes I too had mixed feelings about packagekit..I really thnk it rolled out way before its time..but then in fedora what else is to be expected ;(May 25 08:26
DaemonFC_that's how it goes, either cryptic or dumbed downMay 25 08:27
DaemonFC_I don't think there is an in betweenMay 25 08:28
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twittergrilled and has another hissy fit.May 25 08:34
twitterI wonder if they will slap him with contempt for that performance.May 25 08:35
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schestowitzKBR Got Bonuses for Work that Killed Soldiers 25 08:36
schestowitzMicrosoft – “To boldly blow….” 25 08:37
twitterlolMay 25 08:37
schestowitzMore fluff... "open source clothes" 25 08:39
twitterthe patent site surely blows.  aspx to serve a pdf?  please, just give me the damn thing with a link .....May 25 08:42
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twitterWhat an idiotic document.  I was looking for details about implementing holographic imaging.  What do I find?  Ugh, it's image based not text!  "may also interact with other components not specifically described herein but generally known by those of skill in the art"May 25 08:50
twitterThe whole thing was flow charts and a description of the flow chart without mention of anything in specific.May 25 08:51
twitterI hope that document cost them half a million dollars.May 25 08:51
twitterand that they have paid for thousands of them.May 25 08:51
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DaemonFC_If you thought IE was impossible to deal with before, try it with the ESC packMay 25 08:52
DaemonFC_(Enhanced Security Configuration)May 25 08:52
*DaemonFC_ is now known as aemonFCMay 25 08:52
aemonFCgahMay 25 08:52
*aemonFC is now known as DaemonFCMay 25 08:52
DaemonFCbetterMay 25 08:53
DaemonFCI set up a Server 2008 system and the first thing I wrestled around with was how to turn that offMay 25 08:53
DaemonFCIt amazes me how much less bloated Server 2008 is vs. Vista and how much more sense the default config makesMay 25 08:56
twittertoday's etiquette lesson is how to blog about being fired 25 08:56
twitterI love this company!May 25 08:57
DaemonFCtheir real expensive stuff is better than their consumer stuffMay 25 08:57
DaemonFCI was playing with Hyper-V just s I'd know itMay 25 08:57
DaemonFCif they cared about properly emulating XP in Windows 7, they'd give it Hyper-VMay 25 08:58
DaemonFCbut they never care about wrecking their consumer versionsMay 25 08:58
DaemonFCI booted up some VHD images of several operating systemsMay 25 08:59
DaemonFCyou can even virtualize Linux on top of itMay 25 09:00
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twitter" Who knows, maybe I’ll find myself back in the halls of Microsoftland some day.  I’m pretty sure I’d take it."  He took it alright.May 25 09:00
DaemonFCif you have $1,000 to burn, go for itMay 25 09:00
DaemonFCI made an Ubuntu VHD image and booted it up in Hyper-VMay 25 09:01
DaemonFCran pretty wellMay 25 09:01
DaemonFCconsidering the emulationMay 25 09:01
twitterI have to wonder if any of those fired employee blogs are any more real than the infamous "Apple switcher" that M$ made up.May 25 09:02
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twitterthat's the problem with being a liar, no one will listen to youMay 25 09:02
DaemonFCfired employee blog?May 25 09:02
DaemonFCIs Suse using KVM or Xen?May 25 09:03
DaemonFCI'd imagine support for bothMay 25 09:04
twitterI'm surprised that anyone at M$ keeps a blog after they fired that guy who talked about Macs on the M$ loading doc and how M$ uses them for advertising work.May 25 09:06
twitterThe future of M$'s small business phone system is in doubt 25 09:06
DaemonFCThose Macs weren't meant to be used as MacsMay 25 09:06
DaemonFCthey were early developer kits for the XBOX 360May 25 09:06
twitterbullshit FCMay 25 09:06
DaemonFCnopeMay 25 09:06
DaemonFCthey didn't actually have XBOX 360sMay 25 09:07
DaemonFCso they did development and testing on the MacsMay 25 09:07
DaemonFCand even used them as demo units at E3May 25 09:07
twitterit is pretty well know that M$ uses Mac for their advertising layout, the software puts tags in the output.May 25 09:07
DaemonFCthey had a mockup of a 360May 25 09:07
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DaemonFCbut the Mac was actually running the gamesMay 25 09:07
twitterthey can make up any story they like, it's bullshit.  go look it up.May 25 09:08
DaemonFCit's not bullshitMay 25 09:08
twitterseveral of the pdfs were stored for inspection, I'm sureMay 25 09:08
DaemonFCthe E3 2005 360s were mock upsMay 25 09:08
DaemonFCthe games were running on MacsMay 25 09:08
twitterand their advertising department was using macs.May 25 09:09
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twitterone fact does not cancel out the other, though I have my doubts about yours, FCMay 25 09:09
DaemonFCIt's pretty well known that Microsoft uses Macs for various thingsMay 25 09:09
DaemonFCone of which is developing software for MacsMay 25 09:09
DaemonFC:)May 25 09:09
DaemonFCtheir Mac software usually ends up being better than the Windows versionMay 25 09:10
twitterIn any case .... it's clear that the layoffs are creating doubt in M$'s ability to back their products.May 25 09:10
DaemonFCI have Office 2004 for MacMay 25 09:10
DaemonFCand I used Internet Explorer for MacMay 25 09:10
twitterThis means bad things for their sales.May 25 09:11
DaemonFCdespite the name, it's actually a totally different engineMay 25 09:11
DaemonFCIE for Mac had decent standards compliance as compared to other browsers from the time periodMay 25 09:11
DaemonFCIE for Windows has always been garbageMay 25 09:11
DaemonFCthey use Tasman still in a few things even though IE for Mac is abandonedMay 25 09:12
DaemonFCExpression Web uses it, so does MSN for MacMay 25 09:12
DaemonFCOffice for Mac embeds it for some thingsMay 25 09:13
DaemonFCOffice for Mac also has no product activationMay 25 09:14
twitterthere's a whole pile of articles about products dropped 25 09:14
twitter 25 09:14
twitter 25 09:14
DaemonFCjust enter the serial and it worksMay 25 09:14
twitterthat's a whole pile of doubtMay 25 09:14
DaemonFCthere's a lot of strange things MS does, you'd think their best stuff would be on WindowsMay 25 09:14
DaemonFCand that they'd give the mac a shitty portMay 25 09:14
twitter" scaling back its commitment to .Net Micro Framework, MSN Direct Service and its ResponsePoint phone system after letting go of 3,000 staff earlier this week."May 25 09:14
twitterFunny how that other article tries to reassure Response point suc, I mean customers, that Response point will be out the gate right on time in 2010 despite everyone being fired.May 25 09:15
twitter" MSN Direct - which provides weather, traffic and other services to devices such as in-car map systems - is also under review."May 25 09:16
twitter" Microsoft also cut around 30 per cent of its staff at in-game ad unit Massive on Tuesday"  <- really?  A new low, video game says, "you are fired"May 25 09:18
DaemonFCin game ads have always been a bad ideaMay 25 09:18
twitter  LOLMay 25 09:18
twitterno chicken salad for you!May 25 09:19
twitterM$ needs the money to buy Bill Gates much discounted stock.  Get moving.May 25 09:19
oiaohmStaff cutting cannot go for ever.May 25 09:20
oiaohmHave not heard exectutive pay being cut over there yet.May 25 09:20
DaemonFCnaw, they can axe all the interns, all the knuckle draging support drones, move them to IndiaMay 25 09:21
DaemonFCthen they can outright axe unprofitable divisionsMay 25 09:21
twitterFC, be nice to Sweaty B.May 25 09:21
oiaohmAt the rate MS is going they will become a india company by default.May 25 09:21
twittercall him a knuckle dragger again and he'll "fucking kill you"May 25 09:21
twitteryou assume they survive, ohm.May 25 09:22
DaemonFCI can't stand those companies that outsource to 3rd world tech supportMay 25 09:22
oiaohmSo becoming a threat to USA national secuirty.May 25 09:22
oiaohmSo ending up screwed.May 25 09:22
DaemonFCthey just wast 20 minutes of your time and end up transferring you to an American in the end anywayMay 25 09:22
DaemonFCwhy bother?May 25 09:22
twitterWindows is already a threat to national security and world peace.May 25 09:23
DaemonFCcause the foreigners are cheap and screen out the huge idiotsMay 25 09:23
twitteryou can't screen out the boss, FCMay 25 09:23
twitter"  two of Microsoft-produced magazines for developers have also been affected, but the details about these are not yet available."May 25 09:24
twitterMust be ComputerWorld and some other ragMay 25 09:24
oiaohmMSDN mag I bet twitterMay 25 09:24
twitterprobably, why would they need an in house magazine when they own so much of the media already?May 25 09:25
oiaohmNot like it was going to have much new content.May 25 09:25
twitterWhen they want a story published, it looks better for them to plant it in the San Jose Mercury News, NBC or similar.May 25 09:26
DaemonFCI have access to everything on Technet and MSDN and Software AssuranceMay 25 09:26
DaemonFCthere's some interesting things sometimesMay 25 09:26
DaemonFCespecially in Software AssuranceMay 25 09:26
DaemonFCthat's how I got WinFLPMay 25 09:26
twittercleanse your mind at FSF.orgMay 25 09:27
DaemonFCewwwMay 25 09:27
DaemonFC3 page essay every day about stuff I don't care aboutMay 25 09:28
DaemonFCmay as well go to Fox NewsMay 25 09:28
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DaemonFCthere's more ridiculous incredible stuff thereMay 25 09:28
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twitterit's not fair of you to say M$ offshores everything. 25 09:29
twitterthey fired a whole 55 people in India.May 25 09:29
twitterthat's what 0.1% of their announced layoffs?  See they love America and will do everything to spare jobsMay 25 09:29
DaemonFCyeah, how many more have they hired there?May 25 09:30
DaemonFCnumbers gameMay 25 09:30
twitterexcept let their stock price fall furtherMay 25 09:30
DaemonFCthey've created more jobs thereMay 25 09:30
DaemonFCa lot moreMay 25 09:30
DaemonFCthrough all of thisMay 25 09:30
twitterprobably.May 25 09:30
twitterI was being sarcasticMay 25 09:30
DaemonFCthose 55 cuts were probably satellite support positions for something they cut hereMay 25 09:30
twitter0.1% of announced.  0.05% of more likely.May 25 09:31
oiaohmIt the total numbers.May 25 09:31
oiaohm55 lower staff that a simpler to reaquire is not a major problem.May 25 09:31
twitterthose 55 cuts were people who spent too long on bathroom breaks.  who knows?  It's BS to counter reality of massive US job cutsMay 25 09:32
twitterHey, wow, didn't Sweaty B just get finished chatting up the good people of North Carolina?May 25 09:33
twitter 25 09:33
twitterNow that they buy OOXML, workers get the axeMay 25 09:33
twitterI hope NC goes Open Office.May 25 09:33
twitterand GNU/Linux.May 25 09:34
twitterAnother article about M$ VOIP problems Response Point in trouble, 25 09:35
DaemonFCI ended up getting Office 2007May 25 09:36
DaemonFCOpenOffice always does something bad with any decent amount of formattingMay 25 09:36
twitterdid you pay dearly for it, FC?May 25 09:36
DaemonFCnoMay 25 09:36
twitterwas it cracked?May 25 09:37
DaemonFCnoMay 25 09:37
twitterwhere did you get it?May 25 09:37
DaemonFCMSDNMay 25 09:37
oiaohmPorting documents between different versions of word and have it not eat your formating is rare too.May 25 09:37
twitterSo, have you tried to use it yet?May 25 09:37
DaemonFCyeahMay 25 09:38
twitterEveryone I know who liked Office hates 2007.May 25 09:38
oiaohmAt least OpenOffice produce printable PDF's.May 25 09:38
DaemonFCI like the interfaceMay 25 09:38
oiaohmWithotu have to jump threw hoops.May 25 09:38
twitterYou would, FC.May 25 09:38
oiaohmAnd I have never had a formating problem between different versions of openofficeMay 25 09:39
twitterAlmost all M$ interfaces annoy me.May 25 09:39
oiaohmI even have some old staroffice docs when staroffice was free that still open perfectly.May 25 09:39
twitterOO does a good job of what it is supposed to do.May 25 09:39
oiaohmMS Doc format is nightmare even for MS.May 25 09:39
twitterI used to think OO sucked, then I got my hands on the "real" thing.May 25 09:40
twitterugh.May 25 09:40
DaemonFCOpenOffice is OK if you're broke and need to open a file in a pinchMay 25 09:40
tacone 25 09:40
twittermany of the problems I have with M$ Office are actually Windows restrictions, like poor networking and printer models.May 25 09:41
oiaohmHave used Openoffice for long term storage.May 25 09:41
oiaohmthinking ODF is approved and ms Doc files are not.May 25 09:41
DaemonFClocal shares are easyMay 25 09:41
DaemonFCso are shared printersMay 25 09:41
twitterI'd rather have OO any day over Office because long term storage is more important than most of the rest.May 25 09:41
DaemonFCa few clicks and it worksMay 25 09:41
twitterIf I really need something to look good, I fire up Kile.May 25 09:42
oiaohmI will not say Openoffice is perfect.May 25 09:42
oiaohmThe means to open up a 7 year old contract without headaches pays for itself.May 25 09:42
twitterthat has always been the downfall of Word and to a small extent Excel too.  It did not transfer between computers like a reasonable format should.May 25 09:43
twitterWord Perfect did.May 25 09:43
oiaohmThey are currnetly looking at reworking the inteface of openoffice by the way.May 25 09:43
twitterNow OO does.May 25 09:43
twitterwho, ohm?May 25 09:44
twitterthe mono people?May 25 09:44
twitterlolMay 25 09:44
twitterHow about they make a WYSIWYG LaTex interface that outputs Silverglight documents?May 25 09:45
oiaohm  Openoffice core team twitterMay 25 09:45
twitterjust as long as it's not a big fat button that looks like a glowing coal.May 25 09:46
DaemonFCOOo is free and worth every pennyMay 25 09:47
DaemonFCit handles its own formats OKMay 25 09:47
oiaohm  The first one make the glowing coal button look good.  twitterMay 25 09:48
DaemonFCand it can handle some simple OOXML formattingMay 25 09:48
oiaohm  << This is what you call a over cooked design twitterMay 25 09:48
oiaohmOOXML is very hard to support DaemonFCMay 25 09:50
oiaohmProblem we have here is not even MS Office 2007 produces valid to spec OOXML.May 25 09:51
DaemonFCwell, it comes down to you can make MS Office support bothMay 25 09:51
DaemonFCor you can make OOo support Microsoft formats poorlyMay 25 09:51
oiaohmIt truely supports neither.May 25 09:51
oiaohmMS Office does not support ODF or OOXML really.May 25 09:51
twitterOOXML is impossible because it is incomplete, contradictory and a sham.May 25 09:51
oiaohmAt least openoffice has 1 working.May 25 09:51
twitterthe effort to redesign OO looks rather well organized.May 25 09:52
DaemonFCOOXML files always turn out smallerMay 25 09:52
oiaohmMS supports there own formats badly.May 25 09:52
DaemonFChave you noticed that?May 25 09:52
twitterI'm impressed, thanks ohm.May 25 09:52
twitterI've never noticed M$ formats being small, FC.May 25 09:52
oiaohmThe difference having a few paid maintainers makes twitter.May 25 09:52
twitterso says you.May 25 09:53 redesign pages I can dig up if you like and you will find they are as nice as openoffices.May 25 09:53
twitterThe Linux kernel also has impressive organization.May 25 09:53
oiaohmBlender works on the formal proposal method.May 25 09:53
twittervery niceMay 25 09:54
twitterbut in the end, what matters is the code producedMay 25 09:54
oiaohmWe should expect a lot more in the way of management from open source projects.May 25 09:54
oiaohmWell managed helps getting there.May 25 09:54
oiaohmBecause everyone knows where they are going.May 25 09:54
oiaohmThe Linux kernel works on the sub project model.May 25 09:54
twitterIf you have an itch and a project, please do manage it well, ohm.May 25 09:55
oiaohmAlso keep it close ot well managed.May 25 09:55
oiaohmSince itchs go each cat.May 25 09:55
oiaohmMost of the fast growing projects have a good organisational struct.May 25 09:56
DaemonFCI did like that Torvalds comment about git having unlimited branchesMay 25 09:57
oiaohmYep that make sure there is enough room to create sub projects.May 25 09:57
DaemonFCsomething like "If you do great work, we can merge it, if you do stupid work, you can keep doing stupid work and it never affects anyone else"May 25 09:58
oiaohmThat is the sub project model.May 25 09:58
oiaohmYou throw away the project that don't work and keep those that do.May 25 09:59
oiaohmOld cvs system that gnu grew up with was a nightmare.May 25 09:59
twitterIndustry knowledge actually helps people.May 25 09:59
twitter" knowledge of the industry's dirty dealings can help people stop smoking"May 25 10:00
twitter 25 10:00
twitterIs the same true for Windows?May 25 10:00
oiaohmTo a point.May 25 10:00
twitterI hope so.May 25 10:00
oiaohmRemember we still have smokers who cannot break there addition.May 25 10:00
DaemonFCCamel is sending out free Snus couponsMay 25 10:01
DaemonFCto try to get smokers to use that instead of quittingMay 25 10:01
DaemonFCI save up the coupons and the lady at the convenience store gives me $4.27 in store credit perMay 25 10:01
DaemonFC:PMay 25 10:02
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DaemonFCI practically did a few days of grocery shopping at the tobacco company's expenseMay 25 10:02
oiaohmMind you Snus stops the secound hand smoke problem.May 25 10:03
oiaohmBut would mostly increase the risk of jaw cancer.May 25 10:03
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DaemonFCyeah, I don't get anyMay 25 10:05
DaemonFCthey just cash the coupons inMay 25 10:05
DaemonFCand I buy Combos and Mountain DewMay 25 10:05
DaemonFC:PMay 25 10:05
oiaohmFrom containment of damage Snus is most likely works out better than normal smokes.May 25 10:06
oiaohmCancer of jaw is still not nice.May 25 10:06
DaemonFCstill costs the sameMay 25 10:07
DaemonFCstill nastyMay 25 10:07
DaemonFCstill bad for youMay 25 10:07
oiaohmIt bad for you and not everyone around you.May 25 10:08
tessierSocialist Party in Spain wants open source on school laptopsMay 25 10:09
tessier 25 10:09
oiaohmIt does not block up you means to breath either DaemonFCMay 25 10:09
tessierThat's good news. Just unfortunate that it has to be the socialist party.May 25 10:09
oiaohmSo you might be able to become a sports junking instead.May 25 10:09
DaemonFClmaoMay 25 10:09
twitterThe US is socialist, it just does not know it.May 25 10:12
tessierI've lived in a socialist country. The US isn't it.May 25 10:13
tessierAlthough socializing certain things is a good idea. Roads, for example.May 25 10:13
DaemonFCthe US is a welfare stateMay 25 10:13
twitterThe US has public education, health, roads, water, art and other community efforts.May 25 10:13
tessierMy wife always comments on how great the roads are here. Living in a foreign land and marrying a foreigner has really changed my perspective.May 25 10:14
tessiertwitter: Those are all things which are wisely socialized.May 25 10:14
DaemonFCClamWin has the slowest scanning engine everMay 25 10:14
DaemonFCdamnMay 25 10:14
DaemonFC:PMay 25 10:14
twitterOnce you get over the fact, it just becomes a matter of how much is taxed and where you spend the money.May 25 10:14
DaemonFCyeah, they have a "take out tax" evenMay 25 10:14
DaemonFCI always walk inside to order so I don't pay that taxMay 25 10:15
tessierFor those half dozen things you list there are many many thousands of non-socialized endeavours underway.May 25 10:15
tessierThe US has "take out tax"?May 25 10:15
twitterFollowed to it's logical conclusion, public education and healthcare would not suck.May 25 10:15
DaemonFCnoMay 25 10:15
DaemonFChre it's just a city taxMay 25 10:15
twitterand wealth distribution would not look like the L curveMay 25 10:16
DaemonFCthere's 4 layers of governmentMay 25 10:16
DaemonFCcity, county, state, federalMay 25 10:16
tessierI'm less concerned about the shape of the curve than I am where the middle of that L lies.May 25 10:16
DaemonFCall have their own lawsMay 25 10:16
tessierAnd in the US it's pretty darn high.May 25 10:16
twitter 25 10:16
DaemonFCtherich control 90% of the wealth and pay 37% of the taxesMay 25 10:17
DaemonFCsounds like a good deal to meMay 25 10:17
tessierAmericans complain far too much for all that they have.May 25 10:17
twitterlook at the curve, tessierMay 25 10:17
twitterthere's a lot of improvement that can happen there.May 25 10:17
twitterI had to look at the pdf to realize the curve was correctly displayed on the web page.May 25 10:18
twitterThe most sickening thing of all is how the ultra rich 1% pay no taxes.May 25 10:18
twittertax money goes to them essentiallyMay 25 10:19
twitterand the other 99% pay for all community projects with their money, sweat and lives.May 25 10:19
twitterpardon me, 1% is too generous.  Only 0.3% of the US earn $1 million a year or more, but those who earn more earn substantially more.May 25 10:22
twitterand actual wealth distribution is even more skewed than income.May 25 10:23
twitterare the children all sleeping?May 25 10:44
DaemonFC 25 10:45
DaemonFC$173May 25 10:48
DaemonFCWhy Free Software usability tends to suckMay 25 10:48
DaemonFCflamebaitMay 25 10:48
DaemonFCWhat I want to know is why nothing proprietary does what it's supposed to do well, but still tries to branch out into doing things nobody ever asked for (Nero)May 25 10:49
ushimitsudokiMS has changed the Moonlight covenant on their web site.May 25 10:50
DaemonFCso by the time a typical user has Office 2007 (2 gigs), Nero (7 gigs), and Photoshop CS4 (5 gigs)May 25 10:50
DaemonFCthey have 14 gigs of software to do what 1 gig's worth shouldMay 25 10:50
DaemonFC 25 10:51
twitterRecap of useful links and commentary:May 25 10:51
twitter(02:14:17 AM) twitter: Industry knowledge actually helps people.May 25 10:51
twitter(02:14:23 AM) twitter: " knowledge of the industry's dirty dealings can help people stop smoking"May 25 10:51
twitter(02:14:33 AM) twitter: 25 10:51
twitter(02:14:39 AM) twitter: Is the same true for Windows?(01:49:34 AM) twitter: Another article about M$ VOIP problems Response Point in trouble, AM) twitter: Hey, wow, didn't Sweaty B just get finished chatting up the good people of North Carolina?May 25 10:51
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DaemonFCIf this suite's a success, why is it so buggy?May 25 10:52
DaemonFC:PMay 25 10:52
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twitternow I sleep.  good night.May 25 10:52
ushimitsudokinnMay 25 10:52
schestowitztessier: I have news from SpainMay 25 11:08
schestowitzIt's not niceMay 25 11:08
schestowitzI will do a post soonMay 25 11:08
schestowitzBillG will visit Spain tomorrowMay 25 11:08
schestowitzushimitsudoki: how was it changed?May 25 11:09
ushimitsudokischestowitz: right now the only thing I have noticed is that it mentions Moonlight version 1.0 and 2. Before it was 1.0 and 1.1 and this was a point I had been making in a few places around the webMay 25 11:10
schestowitzUse the Web ArchiveMay 25 11:10
ushimitsudokischestowitz: miguel (or someone claiming to be him) said they were trying to get it changed from 1.1 -> 2.0 in response to me on Ars Technica, so I am not surprised at the changeMay 25 11:10
schestowitzAh OKMay 25 11:11
ushimitsudokiIt breaks my "3 questions about moonlight" that I thought was pretty effective. I will be looking over it again and see if I find something elseMay 25 11:12
oiaohmAt least media is starting to be asking questions they should have been.May 25 11:15
schestowitzLicence to Use Microsoft Moonlight and Mono Not Possible? < >May 25 11:16
ushimitsudokiSam V is one of the few columnists I've noticed that actually seem to think about what they are writing.May 25 11:18
DaemonFCthough Go-OO cold start is nearly instant....May 25 11:18
DaemonFCwhoaMay 25 11:18
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schestowitzushimitsudoki: yes, he isMay 25 11:36
schestowitzThe others just recite conventionsMay 25 11:36
schestowitzNewham hates me. They talk about me in private (I was told this). I've just raised this again.. Bringing that up ought to give encouragement.May 25 11:42
schestowitzCan the United Kingdom and Hungary Still be Sued for Excluding Free Software? < >May 25 11:42
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MinceRgeekingsMay 25 12:00
schestowitzAt Microsoft, Interoperability Sabotage Goes All the Way to the Top < >May 25 12:08
schestowitzMinceR: did you see the post on Hungary?May 25 12:08
schestowitzYou guys should contact distriminated-sgainst vendorsMay 25 12:08
schestowitzThey can sueMay 25 12:08
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MinceRi haven'tMay 25 12:09
DaemonFCoopsMay 25 12:14
*DaemonFC sat on the remote and put his PC to sleepMay 25 12:14
DaemonFCit was a remote vulnerability exploited by my assMay 25 12:15
DaemonFC:)May 25 12:15
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oiaohmschestowitz: think of it this way redhat has never run a court case to sue before on restrictions.   We have to see how the first case goes for them if redhat wins expect to see more.May 25 12:42
schestowitzMonths Before Release, Vista 7 Puts Its Vest on and Becomes Fat Like Vista < >May 25 12:42
schestowitz "The most interesting and informative site on the web has a chatroom and can be a great source of realtime scoops and friendly chat.  Since Ive started seeing some of my online friends joining me from Microsoft Watch, its developing into a great place to be with Roy friendly and timely with his posts (as always)"May 25 12:45
schestowitz^about #boycottnovellMay 25 12:45
DaemonFCthey probably added some debug codeMay 25 12:47
oiaohmCountries with rigging are far bigger than just United Kingdom and Hungary.May 25 12:47
schestowitz"Sara" damage control 25 12:47
schestowitzReader asks,, "Any idea where 'Sara' posted from."May 25 12:47
schestowitzSounds like the case of bringing out a lady to do their PR after a fiascoMay 25 12:48
schestowitzReader says: "Thinking about this over the weekend it is odd that a charity would trash the OLPC, unless they were being enthused to do so by his billness? Notice how the anti OLPC rhetoric is all so similar, regardless of source."May 25 12:48
schestowitz"A mini-server + ten OLPCs would be ideal in a small African school. Instead of which we have them selling Windows. Remember a Windows PC is one less Linux or Ubuntu."May 25 12:48
schestowitz"ps: Ask them how many Ubuntus they install. Ask for an itemized report. Who and what are their donations coming from ?"May 25 12:48
oiaohm  << Stuff from here is more suitable for lots of places.May 25 12:50
oiaohmSomething else that does not get advertising.May 25 12:51
schestowitzJust got a juicy story from Spain... "You can publish it whenever you want. The visit of Bill G. t the Spanish prime minister is tomorrow according to the published news in the adn news site."May 25 12:52
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mtnd3wgoodmorningMay 25 13:06
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schestowitzHey, mtnd3w May 25 13:35
schestowitzReader’s Report from Spain: “Bill Gates Meets Tomorrow with Spain’s Prime Minister in Order to Ensure Spanish School Students Get ‘Addicted’” < >May 25 13:35
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mib_o8evm8Will developer rebellion uncork the wine?May 25 14:30
trmanco 25 14:31
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schestowitzmib_o8evm8: wine the program?May 25 14:34
mib_o8evm8Indeed... project has a management problem.May 25 14:36
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trmanco 25 14:40
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mib_o8evm8I am sure Microsoft reached a deal with crossover when google invested in wine.May 25 14:42
mib_o8evm8Corel heavily backed Wine, then sold to xandros(!)May 25 14:44
mib_o8evm8and what happend to the reactos core developers...May 25 14:44
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oiaohmNop mib_o8evm8May 25 14:48
oiaohmCrossover if required will leave USA.May 25 14:48
oiaohmSo MS really cannot enforce patents against them.   How do you enforce patents when they will just leave the countries where patents apply.May 25 14:49
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mib_o8evm8and tomtom?May 25 15:00
oiaohmCrossover allready has the offsore severs.May 25 15:03
oiaohmAnd a replacement set of leads offsoure.May 25 15:04
oiaohmSo you are talking less than 12 hours for them to complete the move.May 25 15:04
oiaohmFor most operatons.  tomtom was not setup like that.May 25 15:04
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oiaohmThe current wine news is a storm in a tea cup.   There were a set of quality standards that need to be done.  Guess what the dib patch turns out to screwup on Mac OS as broader testing was started.May 25 15:06
schestowitz"Eighteen companies are in the law suit but eWeek decides that it is onlyMay 25 15:09
schestowitzRed Hat alone in the title:" 25 15:09
schestowitzPeter Judge is no FUDster though.May 25 15:09
schestowitzWhy did they choose this headline?May 25 15:10
schestowitzmib_o8evm8: could they use patents?May 25 15:10
schestowitzThey threatened them beforeMay 25 15:10
schestowitzVia NovellMay 25 15:10
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oiaohmRedhat is the lead legal on that.May 25 15:10
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oiaohmIts always wise to get other companies behind you when attacking MS.May 25 15:11
schestowitzoiaohm: TomTom had embargo riskMay 25 15:11
trmancothere goes one -> 25 15:11
schestowitzLike... well, they have devicedMay 25 15:11
schestowitzSo MS approached the ITC (??) to block imports.May 25 15:11
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trmancoI still have another problemMay 25 15:11
schestowitzIt's s/w on some hardwareMay 25 15:12
oiaohmHow to you embargo software that is shipped over the internet.May 25 15:12
Balrog_"Does collusion with Microsoft (or favouritism) permit Switzerland- and Quabec-like action to go forward and expand?"May 25 15:12
schestowitzSo even s/w patents can lead to h/w embargoMay 25 15:12
trmancoI can't create notes, it also crashes :(May 25 15:12
Balrog_fix the typo ... QuebecMay 25 15:12
oiaohmcrossover don't send out disks.May 25 15:12
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oiaohmTomtom had risk from customoms.May 25 15:12
schestowitzBalrog_: oops.May 25 15:12
schestowitzThanksMay 25 15:12
Balrog_npMay 25 15:13
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oiaohmschestowitz: most of crossover business is straight to customers.May 25 15:19
oiaohmIts a different kettle of fish to tomtom.May 25 15:20
schestowitzyes, shopsMay 25 15:20
schestowitzAnd TWOMay 25 15:20
schestowitzWTOMay 25 15:20
oiaohmStraight to customers threw online store.May 25 15:21
oiaohmNot a operation that is going to be simple to stop with embargos.May 25 15:21
schestowitzStored outside the USMay 25 15:21
schestowitz*StoresMay 25 15:21
oiaohmIt has mirrors of it current store out side the US.May 25 15:22
oiaohmReason why its just flick a switch.May 25 15:23
oiaohmThey are ready for war if it ever comes.May 25 15:24
mib_o8evm8Wine project does not progress because of the insane patch rejection.May 25 15:52
oiaohmNot exactly true mib_o8evm8May 25 15:53
oiaohmWine just has a long QA processes.May 25 15:54
mib_o8evm8a cult around the magic wizardMay 25 15:54
mib_o8evm8and the quality of the product is awful.May 25 15:55
mib_o8evm8unusable for most tasksMay 25 15:55
mib_o8evm8between 'not yet' and 'not anymore'May 25 15:56
oiaohmmib_o8evm8: bad news for you.May 25 15:56
oiaohmThere was a time when wine would accept any patch of any quality.May 25 15:56
oiaohmThat lead to the worse nightmare code base.May 25 15:56
oiaohmQA might be a little strict but its better than the no QA it had.May 25 15:57
schestowitzLinux is pickyMay 25 15:57
schestowitzAnd Win32 receives no contributionsMay 25 15:57
oiaohmI really do think wine should allow branches.May 25 15:57
schestowitzNot sure about OOo. Copyright assignment is there issue to some people thereMay 25 15:57
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oiaohmfor some things.   That is what the arguement should have been for.May 25 15:58
mib_o8evm8It is more like: something happens you cannot explain.May 25 15:58
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mib_o8evm8and then the wild worship the godsMay 25 15:58
oiaohmLOLMay 25 15:58
oiaohmShared developer between wine and samba has had no problems getting patches into wine.May 25 15:59
mib_o8evm8or try to bribe the supreme being-May 25 15:59
oiaohmThe quality controls are not that high.  Bigger blocks of code with more test cases than the dib has come from him.May 25 15:59
mtnd3wWhat do you guys think about the Ubuntu AppCenter (AppStore) ?May 25 15:59
oiaohmDib is simple short on what the normal requirements have been.May 25 15:59
mib_o8evm8Because developers are not equal.May 25 15:59
oiaohmAnd someone lose there fuse.May 25 15:59
oiaohmYou do know broader testing stage was skipped what is a normal requirement for incude.May 25 16:00
mib_o8evm8The normal procedure is that a maintainer delegates, explains the code bases, the community evangelises and is happyMay 25 16:00
mtnd3w 25 16:01
oiaohmSo no testing with Mac OS BSD or Solarias or a broad range of applciations.May 25 16:01
mib_o8evm8sometimes hard decisions are made.May 25 16:01
oiaohmAJ normal rules don't change.May 25 16:01
taconelolMay 25 16:01
taconemtnd3w: that's just ramblingsMay 25 16:01
mtnd3wlolMay 25 16:01
oiaohmAJ is a constant it does annoy people from time time.  He has a check list mib_o8evm8May 25 16:01
taconemtnd3w: why do you ask ?May 25 16:02
mib_o8evm8No maintainance problems inside KDE...May 25 16:02
oiaohmYes and no mib_o8evm8May 25 16:02
mib_o8evm8Oh, my patch wasn't accepted.May 25 16:02
oiaohmThere is a issue between maintainance of advertising and maintainance of source code.May 25 16:02
oiaohmThey don't always line up mib_o8evm8May 25 16:03
mib_o8evm8then: yes, it's broken, ask X, and X will explain you, so you become one day Y. No single point of failure.May 25 16:03
mtnd3wtacone: I'm just wondering what it will mean in terms of proprietary software accessMay 25 16:05
taconemtnd3w: it's still a generic questionMay 25 16:05
taconethe paid software enhancement are my guess, based on what i sawMay 25 16:06
mtnd3wtacone: I don't want Ubuntu to turn into previous distros that tried this but failed because their objectives were to obtain more proprietary sales than improve GNU/LinuxMay 25 16:06
taconebut you can bet your ass that canonical will encourage the development of a proprietary software marketMay 25 16:06
mib_o8evm8X will explain you? No X is a guru, so he can find it worth to talk for hours about his code.May 25 16:06
trmancohaMay 25 16:07
mtnd3wtacone: Time to switch to Debian...May 25 16:07
taconewell, I just hope it won't become like the iphone appstore, where the free part is just trialwareMay 25 16:07
trmancojust caught another mono dependent appMay 25 16:07
trmancograph monkeyMay 25 16:07
taconemtnd3w: linux will need some software market if it wants to growMay 25 16:07
mib_o8evm8iphone appstore access is a bit like Wine contributions, but they have clear rules.May 25 16:08
taconetrmanco: i can suggest you the most scaring oneMay 25 16:08
trmancowhich one?May 25 16:08
taconetrmanco: at the condition you find the url yourself.May 25 16:08
trmancosureMay 25 16:08
trmancololMay 25 16:08
taconetrmanco: banshee or gnome-do are not dangerous. because you can substitute themMay 25 16:08
trmancoyeahMay 25 16:08
taconewhat if I say that someone tried to build a generic plugin installer daemon for gnome ?May 25 16:09
taconethat's something that downloads and install, lets say... err.. gedit plugins or stuff like that.May 25 16:09
trmancolike packageedit?May 25 16:09
trmancopackagekit*May 25 16:10
taconemmh. like those programs which have a plugin structure and look on the internet to let you download plugins. i don't know what packagekit isMay 25 16:10
taconethe only implementation i know of this mono thing, is deskbar-appletMay 25 16:10
mtnd3wtacone: I understand but at the price of transparency and freedom. I can only see an influx of mono applications...May 25 16:10
schestowitztacone: Canonical already has other stores for binaries, I thinkMay 25 16:10
schestowitzInc. its ownMay 25 16:10
schestowitzThings like Unison and DB2May 25 16:10
taconeschestowitz: i know. it's the emphasis that will change a bit. and partner repository still lacks an easy pay per buy.May 25 16:11
oiaohmmib_o8evm8: wine has clear rules just most developers don't ask what they are and get upset when they think it been unfairly rejected.May 25 16:11
trmancodeskbar-applet?May 25 16:11
trmancothat isn't monoMay 25 16:11
trmanco 25 16:11
taconeyes. deskbar-applet had some kind of plugin to use that mono stuffMay 25 16:11
schestowitzLinspire did something similarMay 25 16:12
schestowitzBlog reposMay 25 16:12
schestowitzFor a priceMay 25 16:12
trmancotacone, yeah, if you have beagle installedMay 25 16:13
trmanconad tomboyMay 25 16:14
trmancoand*May 25 16:14
trmancothese two work like backends for deskbar appletMay 25 16:14
taconei never blogged about it, because i think it's a dead project and i hope it'll dieMay 25 16:15
taconei have trouble finding its urlMay 25 16:16
trmancoI'm not going to waste my timeMay 25 16:18
mib_o8evm8Not in the case of the dib engine. Cedega would bankrupt if Wine included it.May 25 16:25
mib_o8evm8The scheme of the governance structure is that its never Stalin's fault because he works day and night to build up socialism.May 25 16:26
oiaohmCedega most of those patches have had to be removed due to nightmares.May 25 16:27
oiaohmCedega still codes by the old rules of wine.May 25 16:27
oiaohmAs long as it works a applciations it good.May 25 16:27
mib_o8evm8Privileges, power and social status depend on your acclamation for the great leader.May 25 16:28
taconecrimsun: sabdfl's boot challenge: 10s. scott (keybuk) has benchmarked upstart+linux 2.6.30+new gdm+Xfce at 8.5s (no kms).May 25 16:29
mib_o8evm8And some comrades and perpetrators are sent Gulag because they need to improve their social skills.May 25 16:29
oiaohmmib_o8evm8: you don't get it.   Wine is not magically protected from forking.May 25 16:38
oiaohmIf enough developers are upset they will fork a project mib_o8evm8May 25 16:38
oiaohmThe question is why are only a few developers up set with the process mib_o8evm8.May 25 16:39
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mib_o8evm8lock-inMay 25 16:56
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Balrog_mib_o8evm8: someone should make a patched wine that has those featuresMay 25 17:02
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mib_o8evm8With progress for Wine Reactos has the potential to kill Microsoft Windows http://www.reactos.orgMay 25 17:09
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mtnd3wmib_o8evm8: i think Reactos will take on the markets left behind after Microsoft stops supporting their older OSMay 25 17:26
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schestowitzWhy not Wine?May 25 17:28
schestowitzPeople just need compatibilityMay 25 17:28
schestowitzIn some ways, Wine is more compatible with Windows than VIsta isMay 25 17:28
schestowitzMicrosoft patronises the EU after well-documented IE crimes: 25 17:32
neighborleeschestowitz: oh btw: 25 17:35
schestowitzTypos there.. "livcense"May 25 17:37
schestowitzLive licence " :-)May 25 17:37
schestowitzMicrosoft Live(R)May 25 17:37
schestowitzLive(R) CDMay 25 17:37
schestowitzWith Hotmail and Encarta :-)May 25 17:37
neighborleeyup I noticed LOLMay 25 17:38
schestowitz 25 17:41
neighborleeoh great ;)May 25 17:42
neighborleemore tyrants with toysMay 25 17:42
neighborlee;0May 25 17:42
schestowitzLie Bush?May 25 17:43
schestowitz*LikeMay 25 17:43
neighborleeLOL yes,,like our EX presidnet, whom I did not vote for ;))May 25 17:43
schestowitzRemember that only one country has used nukes in war.May 25 17:43
schestowitzWhile imprisoning Japanese (sort of) without charges if they just happen to live in the USMay 25 17:44
schestowitzneighborlee: well, the previous one was never elected, he stole the electiln.May 25 17:44
neighborleeyup I knowMay 25 17:44
neighborleesad but trueMay 25 17:45
neighborleesome deny it of course..but we all get it..May 25 17:45
neighborleepolitical allies helped steal that one..and supreme court added the nail.May 25 17:45
schestowitzheh. Anyway, 'nuff politics! :-)May 25 17:47
neighborleeschestowitz: license fixed..thx for heads up LOLMay 25 17:47
schestowitzMicrosoft seems to be burning up its reserves just to keep FOSS dams from burstingMay 25 17:47
schestowitzCity of Vancouver embraces open data, standards and source < >May 25 17:47
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neighborleeschestowitz: I can never get enougth of it sometimes..knowing we're surrounded by those who would rob you blind of your rights etalMay 25 17:48
*schestowitz imagines BillG packing a suitcase with a bag fulla' EDGI, pseudo 'openness' and fake charityMay 25 17:48
neighborleeschestowitz: go  vancouver ;))May 25 17:48
neighborleeschestowitz: so up the road a stretch from here heheMay 25 17:48
neighborleelolMay 25 17:48
schestowitzHas the US Army declared war on Windows 7? < >May 25 17:49
schestowitzI just got some confidential infoMay 25 17:50
schestowitzThe army is thinking about Linux after the USB infectionsMay 25 17:50
schestowitzThis is very scary to MSMay 25 17:50
schestowitzRed Hat too is winning many contracts in the armyMay 25 17:50
neighborleehmMay 25 17:51
neighborleeusb infectins ?May 25 17:51
neighborleei missed that oneMay 25 17:51
schestowitzHappy RAM/ROM Say: 25 17:52
neighborleelaughableMay 25 17:53 25 17:53
neighborleewho are they kidding LOLMay 25 17:53
neighborleeare they going to upgrade those computers to something vista wont run into the ground..hmm ;)May 25 17:54
neighborleeI thought army was hot on linux for a time..helping to make linux even MORE secure..what happened to using linux I wonder ;0-0May 25 17:54
neighborleeor was that the navy o_0May 25 17:54
schestowitzCentOS 5.3 (Live CD) has just been released 25 17:58
schestowitzneighborlee: no, it's MS PRMay 25 17:58
schestowitzit came from MS PR in CNETMay 25 17:58
neighborleeahhhhh gotchaMay 25 17:59
schestowitzThey are desperate for success storyMay 25 17:59
neighborleehow does that NOT surprise meMay 25 17:59
neighborleeyes no doubt of itMay 25 17:59
schestowitzSo the Ina Friedshill pulled some non-newsMay 25 17:59
neighborleewoahMay 25 17:59
neighborleecentos livecd ??May 25 17:59
neighborleenow that IS newsMay 25 17:59
schestowitzYou know them,.?May 25 17:59
schestowitzOh waitMay 25 17:59
neighborleeat least no mono ! ;))May 25 17:59
schestowitzCentosMay 25 17:59
schestowitzwell, trueMay 25 17:59
schestowitzBN runs on Centos toooMay 25 17:59
neighborleeahhhhh interestingMay 25 18:00
schestowitzSo now I'm a fan and supporterMay 25 18:00
schestowitzMore than before anywayMay 25 18:00
neighborleeLOLMay 25 18:00
neighborleeindeedMay 25 18:00
neighborleevery good newsMay 25 18:00
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neighborlee21 Adding support for the x86_64 architecture  YES YES ;))May 25 18:02
schestowitzCCTV in UK classes..  Pupils walk out of lessons in protest against Big Brother cameras < >May 25 18:02
neighborleewas wondering about that..I really need 64bit OS ;))May 25 18:02
neighborleeinterestingMay 25 18:03
schestowitzBN runs on 54-bitMay 25 18:03
schestowitz*64May 25 18:03
schestowitzTwo Talibans unite: US talking peace with Taliban, Al-Qaeda associates  < >May 25 18:03
schestowitzWill they also give weapons for them to fight the Russian, serve as cannon fodderMay 25 18:04
schestowitz*RussiansMay 25 18:04
schestowitzThis is disturbing: companies are buying land overseas: Feudalism?May 25 18:05
neighborleeWOAHMay 25 18:05
neighborleeman....your the harbinger of news today arent' you ;)May 25 18:05
neighborleetaliban talking peace..OMGMay 25 18:06
neighborleeo_0May 25 18:06
schestowitztacone: A cruel end for Italy's asylum-seekers < >May 25 18:06
taconelemme seeMay 25 18:07
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, it's weirdMay 25 18:07
taconeah yesMay 25 18:07
schestowitzThe last time they 'united' it was against the Soviets and 'communism'May 25 18:07
taconethey got criticized for opening lagers in lampedusaMay 25 18:07
taconeso they tried to get the immigrants into libia's lagersMay 25 18:07
schestowitzneighborlee: more here: Tomgram: The Pressure of an Expanding War < >May 25 18:08
schestowitz"Experts who gave a dramatic warning that ecstasy led to brain damage based their study on a huge blunder, reports health editor Jo Revill" 25 18:08
schestowitzThey give a bad name to explanations that drugs are bad. This gives ammunition to ecstasy usersMay 25 18:09
neighborleenot reallyMay 25 18:09
neighborleeone kid died from overdose of its anything but safe ;)May 25 18:09
neighborleesure yo ucan over dose on things..but this is differentMay 25 18:10
schestowitzCHANGE! Err.. no. Not quite. Senate Democrats reject funding for Guantánamo closure < >May 25 18:10
schestowitzneighborlee: yeah, it's bad like many thingsMay 25 18:11
mtnd3wI remember now, it's Click N Run the other App Store, 25 18:11
schestowitzBut making bogus studies hurts the causeMay 25 18:11
mtnd3wIt's was such a bad idea.May 25 18:11
schestowitzXandros neglected CNRMay 25 18:11
schestowitzCNR sold Lin4WinMay 25 18:11
neighborleeschestowitz: yes it doesMay 25 18:11
schestowitzWin4LinuxMay 25 18:11
neighborleeI kinda wish cnr had made was good for all of linux I thinkMay 25 18:12
schestowitzIt's GPLedMay 25 18:12
neighborleeone united front..kinda like for windowsMay 25 18:12
neighborleeyesMay 25 18:12
schestowitzWe have equivalentsMay 25 18:12
schestowitzWithout the smell of MicrospireMay 25 18:12
neighborleefaik that was mint..but we all know that mint is now 100% onboard with mono.. so thats outMay 25 18:12
neighborleeor do you mean something elseMay 25 18:13
schestowitzNew UNIX poster: 25 18:14
schestowitzneighborlee: Linspire and MSMay 25 18:14
schestowitzOr Xandros toMay 25 18:14
schestowitzBetter avoidedMay 25 18:14
schestowitzLike Novell -- similar reasons May 25 18:14
neighborleeyupMay 25 18:14
neighborleethey joined ranks sometime ago , yesMay 25 18:15
schestowitzIt's good that MS stpped after TurboLinuxMay 25 18:15
schestowitzSJVN insisted that all vendors would sign a dealMay 25 18:15
schestowitzHe was wrong, I was rightMay 25 18:15
schestowitzNo deal since 2007May 25 18:15
neighborlee:)May 25 18:16
MinceRwho's SJVN?May 25 18:17
MinceRalso: ugh, times new romanMay 25 18:17
MinceRi'm surprised they didn't use comic sans instead :>May 25 18:18
schestowitzMicrosoft arms half-wit developers with PHP handgun <  >May 25 18:22
schestowitzIn the poster?May 25 18:23
taconephp: not a threatMay 25 18:23
taconems is paying zend, still it's lagging behind.May 25 18:23
taconephp application are simply not done for the ms wimpMay 25 18:24
schestowitzI've just decided to bring /. back to my reading list. Tossed around 2007/8 for MS boostingMay 25 18:24
taconethat won't change anytime soonMay 25 18:24
schestowitzW[IIS]MPMay 25 18:24
taconeWISPSMay 25 18:24
schestowitzZend says 95% of its customers use Linux for their appsMay 25 18:25
schestowitzDesktop is a little differentMay 25 18:25
taconewindows iis sqlserver php silverlightMay 25 18:25
schestowitzBut Windows can't be trusted with coding.May 25 18:25
taconeinstalling lamp on windows is a pain. but there are bundles out, like wampMay 25 18:26
taconems needs to spread sql server, but no php application is made to use it.May 25 18:26
taconeand that won't change. php is used because its software base. and that's something large enough to not change in 4 years nor in 10.May 25 18:26
taconeofflining.May 25 18:26
taconebyeMay 25 18:26
schestowitzWFAIL: Windows f* Apache, promotes IIS at Linux's expenseMay 25 18:27
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MinceRschestowitz: yes, in the posterMay 25 18:30
schestowitzProceedings of the 14th European Patent Judges' Symposium Now Available 25 18:31
schestowitzGovernment brainwash via TV: "The Victorian government has spent $A222,000 on a television program promoting the attraction of living and working in areas outside the major metropolitan areas. The program, ''Changing Places: Life in Provincial Victoria'', was broadcast on commercial television at Easter."May 25 18:36
schestowitz "FOX's Happening Now program and FOX's Special Report program What wasn't disclosed to USA Today's readers or any of the television viewers was that the Cato Institute's latest annual report (pdf - see page 47) lists its corporate sponsors as including General Motors, Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Volkswagen and the American Petroleum Institute."May 25 18:37
schestowitzThis just shows to what extent TV is run by governments and corporations that send their messages to couch potatoes.May 25 18:38
mtnd3w<neighborlee> faik that was mint..but we all know that mint is now 100% onboard with mono.. so thats outMay 25 18:39
mtnd3wthis is true?May 25 18:39
mtnd3wthen mint was one of my favorite distros...May 25 18:40
schestowitzBecause it has mono?May 25 18:42
schestowitzWhat to do if you cannot execute CHMOD < >May 25 18:42
mtnd3wyesMay 25 18:42
schestowitzMint just follows UbuntuMay 25 18:43
schestowitzThe core of this issue is Ubuntu, which is the patent and model to some othersMay 25 18:43
schestowitzAnd people like Jo Shields push it in thereMay 25 18:43
schestowitzNow they do the same for Microsoft MoonlightMay 25 18:43
mtnd3wSorry about my late responses, a lot of these terminologies and names I have to researchMay 25 18:44
schestowitz "who knows. maybe the Swiss are rewarding U.S. for having so many "customers" who park their money in Swiss bank accounts to avoid federal income taxes (in the news recently). the average account was worth 1.2 million dollars."May 25 18:44
mtnd3w Jo Shields, is?May 25 18:44
schestowitzdirecth3xMay 25 18:44
schestowitzneighborlee's neighbourMay 25 18:44
schestowitzCheck out the comments in: 25 18:46
schestowitzThe submitter gets abused by the usual bunchMay 25 18:46
schestowitzSeems like Microsoft's agents perhaps. They do have some, but I am not sure which onesMay 25 18:46
mtnd3wdefinitelyMay 25 18:47
schestowitzI had it confirmedMay 25 18:47
schestowitzRe: SlashdotMay 25 18:48
schestowitzIn Digg I got lots of abuse tooMay 25 18:48
mtnd3wI don't use Digg anymoreMay 25 18:48
mtnd3wA lot of the comments there are idiotic.May 25 18:48
schestowitz" twitter " gets TONS of abuse in Slashdot. The people who gang against him... Microsoft PR agencies and spinnersMay 25 18:48
schestowitzmtnd3w: well, they got their way thenMay 25 18:48
mtnd3wBut you are right Microsoft is pushing social news networks like Digg and reddit.May 25 18:48
schestowitzThe plan is to drive away meaningful discussionMay 25 18:48
schestowitzThey do the same thing in USENETMay 25 18:49
schestowitzEVERYWHERE a discussion exists which is damaging to MicrosoftMay 25 18:49
mtnd3wMajority of these retards think Monopoly is a good thingMay 25 18:49
schestowitzNovell is smearing me and BN in other sites too... sometimes in our own site, but they get caughtMay 25 18:49
schestowitzTypical routine for many large companies. Microsoft is just one of the most ruthless in its area. Oil companies and armies do the same thing.May 25 18:50
mtnd3wLet me give you a quote I read on them. It's so accurate, it describes them perfectly.May 25 18:50
schestowitzThey don't think it's a good thingMay 25 18:50
schestowitzBut the person with a monooiy likes his/herMay 25 18:50
schestowitzThose employees by the monopoly will protect their territory tooMay 25 18:50
schestowitz*employedMay 25 18:51
mtnd3wYeah this is true.May 25 18:51
mtnd3wA lot of companies do this.May 25 18:51
schestowitzTheir shll hAl is editing Wikipedia heavily todayMay 25 18:51
mtnd3wI worked for RCA once and I wrote something honest about them, but they had people spying on forums.May 25 18:51
schestowitzThey were caught hiring for thisMay 25 18:51
schestowitzTo edit articles on document formatsMay 25 18:51
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schestowitztacone: shill alertMay 25 18:51
schestowitzVery high AstroTurfing todayMay 25 18:52
mtnd3wIf a company like RCA can do it, I'm pretty certain Microsoft is doing a lot more.May 25 18:52
schestowitzEsp. for OOXMLMay 25 18:52
taconeschestowitz: uriMay 25 18:52
taconei will offline soonMay 25 18:52
schestowitzNone too specific. I just see it here and there..May 25 18:52
schestowitzThere should be prison sentences for this stuffMay 25 18:52
schestowitzI'm tired of seeing itMay 25 18:53
neighborleeschestowitz: lolMay 25 18:53
neighborleeschestowitz: nasty thought!!May 25 18:53
taconetalking crap should be free :)May 25 18:53
schestowitzneighborlee: Ubuntu Forums neibourMay 25 18:53
neighborleeschestowitz: 1000 thrashings for that LOLMay 25 18:53
schestowitzDon't[sic] mean you chums get alongMay 25 18:53
schestowitz"Keep our Mono turd in your own side of the fence"May 25 18:53
neighborleelolMay 25 18:54
taconeubuntuforums have directhex marking as shit every mono concern, without any external referenceMay 25 18:54
neighborleeyupMay 25 18:54
schestowitzMono GuardMay 25 18:54
neighborleeand ones that get out of control, from their point of view is either removed,or sent to HELL LOLMay 25 18:54
neighborleehell-recurring discussions, so debate is squashed.May 25 18:55
schestowitz 25 18:55
schestowitzMaybe just another shilllMay 25 18:55
schestowitzBut whose?\May 25 18:55
schestowitzMicrosoft's? Novell's? Ignorance's?May 25 18:55
mtnd3wlolMay 25 18:55
mtnd3wROFL: “I do C# programming on Linux for a living using Mono, so there are definitely jobs out there - and more companies seem to be moving to Mono every week if you pay attention to the Mono mailing lists.”May 25 18:56
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schestowitzThey build it up for EEEMay 25 18:56
schestowitzJust like with ODFMay 25 18:56
schestowitzMicrosoft can't quite get the EMbrace yetMay 25 18:56
schestowitzSo Jo et al help themMay 25 18:56
mtnd3wI always check the join dates, thats what gives them away!May 25 18:56
schestowitzNaaa..May 25 18:56
schestowitzYou expose them then activity heltMay 25 18:57
schestowitzThey create a new accountMay 25 18:57
schestowitzIllusion of pluralitMay 25 18:57
schestowitzIllusion of plurality May 25 18:57
schestowitzSome Microsoft Munchkins in USENET have used HUNDREDS of namesMay 25 18:57
mtnd3wDo you know any forum admins?May 25 18:57
schestowitzOne paycheck, many 'people'May 25 18:57
mtnd3wthat can track user IP?May 25 18:57
schestowitzIn Ubuntu? No.May 25 18:58
mtnd3wYeah...May 25 18:58
mtnd3wI have a question about Mono .Net C#May 25 18:58
mtnd3wThe pro-mono always make an argument about lack of virtual machine languagesMay 25 18:59
mtnd3wIs why Mono exists...May 25 18:59
mtnd3wAnd I don't haven an extensive background into programming to understand that.May 25 18:59
mtnd3wBut it seems like such a bogus argument for Mono.May 25 19:00
Balrogmtnd3w: JAVA?May 25 19:01
Balrogllvm?May 25 19:01
neighborleewell in light of the new ECMA could say its a bit..bogus yes ;)),,,who ever said we could trust mono in the first place...certainly weren't friends of linux given Microsofts LONG history of attacking linux..its laughable.May 25 19:02
Balrogllvm will probably become important over the next few yearsMay 25 19:02
schestowitzneighborlee: exactlyMay 25 19:02
neighborleeI never liked java..but I would get used to it if I had to ;)...I use python in panda3d for our game developmentMay 25 19:02
schestowitzBalrog: .NET is a Java wannabe, Mono is a .NET wannabe. Java is GPL. So why not use the Real Thing? Why the wannabe of a wannabe?May 25 19:02
schestowitzAnswer:May 25 19:03
mtnd3wneighborlee: This is a point I always argue when showing the trojan virus that Mono really is.May 25 19:03
schestowitzMicrosoft is still afraod of JavaMay 25 19:03
Balrogpython is an interpreted languageMay 25 19:03
schestowitzAt all costs Microsoft wants to harm JavaMay 25 19:03
schestowitzAnd other thingsMay 25 19:03
neighborleeBalrog: yes it isMay 25 19:03
schestowitzLike Web technolgiesMay 25 19:03
schestowitzReplace PHP with Monolight[sic]May 25 19:03
neighborleeBalrog: but it works for many things, and if it doens't you write those segments in c++May 25 19:03
schestowitzI's disgsutingMay 25 19:03
schestowitzNovell is just a de facto subsidiary of MicrosoftMay 25 19:03
Balrogyeah.May 25 19:03
schestowitzIt's like CItrixMay 25 19:03
neighborleeschestowitz: indeed they areMay 25 19:04
schestowitzMinutes ago: "I really do not want Mono, so this was a lovely, simple way out." 25 19:04
neighborleeschestowitz: just try and install opensuse and later remove used to be IMPOSSIBLE..maybe that has changed but I would seriously doubt itMay 25 19:04
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neighborleeimpossible , as in tons of 'warnings'..May 25 19:05
schestowitzAnother nice new win: Aussie prisoners escape lock-in with Ubuntu PCs <,aussie-prisoners-escape-lockin-with-ubuntu-pcs.aspx >May 25 19:07
schestowitzneighborlee: what kind of warningS?May 25 19:08
schestowitzLike telemarketing?May 25 19:08
schestowitz"We're sorry, but our deal with Microsoft requires that you keep Mono and love it very, very much. Proceed? [Y|y]"May 25 19:08
schestowitzLinux 2.6.30 final is a step closer now: 25 19:11
schestowitzA lot of charities are like this... they need to be challenged. 25 19:14
schestowitzSomeone says: "...Am I being too cynical are they doing good work, or are they making a good living out of it, on the backs of the unemployed, who don't even get a free PC ? You get the cost of travel and the price of a sandwich"May 25 19:14
schestowitzDiscussion about GIMP UI is baaaack. (The future of GIMP's User Interface)May 25 19:18
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schestowitzWorkwithU spends a lot of time ranting about ubuntu: ... 25 19:24
schestowitzThat Christopher Tozzi dude in particular usually complains about something in Ubuntu. Joe is the optimist, oddly enoughMay 25 19:25
schestowitztacone: Mandriva's answer to Ubuntu One : Click'n' Backup < >May 25 19:26
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_GoblinHaving tested Ubuntu One for over a week, I can't see anything new over say Dropbox. Infact the lack of a cross platform client could be detrimental to it.May 25 19:39
schestowitzHey, _Goblin, better spend good words promoting Linux, not feeding the shillsMay 25 19:42
schestowitzIt only encourages them to stay :-)May 25 19:43
schestowitzVista launch best argument for Linux says IBM exec < >May 25 19:43
schestowitzYeah... as MS said in 2006, "last nail on the Linux caffin"May 25 19:43
schestowitzVista - almost "last nail on the MO coffin"May 25 19:43
schestowitzVista 7 -  "last nail on the MS' coffin"May 25 19:43
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schestowitzSome more new Linux from IBM: 25 19:45
schestowitzI managed to make a typo in each line up there :-)May 25 19:45
schestowitzLinux speaks to Nintendo, sort of: 25 19:46
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Omar871Hi allMay 25 20:00
Omar871I've been wondering lately: Is there any real difference between Java and C#, in terms of capabilities and functionality? May 25 20:00
schestowitzjava is not just a P/LMay 25 20:00
Omar871schestowitz: Come again?May 25 20:01
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schestowitz"Novell-Puig Design in Barcelona" 25 20:04
schestowitzOmar871: p/l= programming language]May 25 20:04
schestowitzJava is MASSIVEMay 25 20:04
taconesun appstore, anyone ?May 25 20:06
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schestowitz 25 20:15
schestowitztacone: Java shopMay 25 20:15
schestowitzHehe. "Email, lots of people about the website, so as ny IP address won't be the only one to pop up in the log files..." Click the aboveMay 25 20:15
twitterVista was the last nail in M$'s coffin.  It took them six years to build that junk, so everyone knows they won't be able to fix it anytime soon.  Windows is a dead end.May 25 20:20
schestowitzNot just VistaMay 25 20:21
schestowitzVista 7 tooMay 25 20:21
schestowitzRead the latest in Bn. Second from topMay 25 20:21
schestowitzI am going to process some more news linksMay 25 20:21
schestowitzLotsa goodies for Linux on memorial dayMay 25 20:21
twitterI'm reading the IBM guy.  He does not yet see it as a non free software failure thing.May 25 20:22
twitterpromotes Mac and other "alternatives"May 25 20:22
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twitterThose who consider things for a while realize that Vista is a posterboy for all that's wrong with non free software.  If a company with the size and advantages of M$ can't make it work, no one can.May 25 20:23
twitterah, he quotes the Freedom Dynamics report.  I like that.May 25 20:24
twitterTake away message that's repeated over and over:  Don't be distracted by the Windows fanboys who are, " emotionally or practically wedded to Windows."May 25 20:25
twitterI think Vista eliminated all but a handful of the emotional types.  All that's left is astroturf and people with money on the line who are too lazy to retrain.May 25 20:27
twitterIf ignoring the fanboys to deploy on non technical user desktops is not a "full frontal assault" on M$'s little monopoly, I'm not sure what is.  The end is near for M$.May 25 20:28
twitternow to see what good news BN has collected, that's always fun.  :)May 25 20:29
schestowitzWho?May 25 20:29
schestowitzSutor?May 25 20:29
schestowitzHe's not a Linux guy fully.May 25 20:30
schestowitzHe promotes it on Fod ComputingMay 25 20:30
schestowitzAnd he uses Ubuntu *And* a MacMay 25 20:30
schestowitzRob Weird would be more about Linux than him, IIRCMay 25 20:30
schestowitz*WeirMay 25 20:30
MinceRfunny typoMay 25 20:39
schestowitzCommonMay 25 20:39
schestowitzHe jokes about it tooMay 25 20:39
schestowitzAnotherbuntu: (SIGINT: Ubuntu Privacy Remix)May 25 20:46
schestowitzMaking One's Own Distribution is Very Reasonable 25 20:48
schestowitzFree Software values of Openness to Hopefully Inspire Politicians 25 21:08
schestowitzWatch out for software patents in EU and UK 25 21:14
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tessierRedHat sues Switzerland....not so neutral afterall, are they?May 25 21:32
schestowitzNaa.. There was the 'swiss cheese' incident tooMay 25 21:33
schestowitzMicrosoft grew a little cult there.May 25 21:33
schestowitzI Was Wrong! Alan Greenspan < >May 25 21:33
_Goblinhi allMay 25 21:44
twitterhelloMay 25 21:44
_Goblinfound a little cracker called Hadron on the NG's. (or as another shill typo'd and called him "Hardon")May 25 21:45
twitterNice quoting and context for the Gates deposition news, Roy.May 25 21:47
tessierEuropean ignorance and hostility to open source and free software is such that a group has launched a pact for candidates in the forthcoming European elections to sign,.pledging support for free software.May 25 21:49
tessierI thought Free Software was more popular in Europe than in the US?May 25 21:49
schestowitzNot the UKMay 25 21:52
schestowitzI know the guy who launched the pactMay 25 21:52
schestowitzI sometimes correspond or chat with him. The UK might even be worse than the UK at FOSS adoptionMay 25 21:52
schestowitzFrance and Germany, by contrast, are moving to libre fastMay 25 21:53
*neighborlee has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny")May 25 21:54
schestowitzLatest Linux news for today: 25 21:55
neonflossthe nerve of those people. they are giving them better computers than the average american ;)May 25 21:56
schestowitzThey already have lock-in (cell). One Cell Per Child... some have WindowsMay 25 21:59
*_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal")May 25 22:18
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 25 22:23
schestowitz"90% of IT professionals have had direct experience with Linux on the desktop! Thx @sjvn @schestowitz"May 25 22:40
schestowitz:-) "Australian prison uses Linux PCs to train prisoners to find jobs after their release Thx @schestowitz"May 25 22:41
schestowitzA lot of work is being done to obscure The FactsMay 25 22:41
schestowitzIs the United Kingdom Immune to Software Patents? Continental Europe is… for Now… Sort of… < >May 25 22:44
schestowitzNovell Ghostwrites Articles to Improve Its Public Image < >May 25 22:51
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trmanco 25 23:04
trmancolooolMay 25 23:04
trmancoohMay 25 23:04
trmancoyou're hereMay 25 23:04
trmancohey _GoblinMay 25 23:04
_GoblinhiMay 25 23:08
trmanconice postMay 25 23:11
schestowitzI have a good post comingMay 25 23:11
schestowitz_Goblin will like itMay 25 23:12
schestowitzIt's his turfMay 25 23:12
_GoblinI hope it has a star trek theme.....May 25 23:12
trmancoheheMay 25 23:12
trmancoI finally found what was crashing gnoteMay 25 23:12
trmancoit was a broken library that I had installedMay 25 23:13
trmanco 25 23:13
schestowitz*ROTFLMAO* @ 25 23:14
trmancoyeahMay 25 23:14
trmanconeatMay 25 23:14
schestowitzWe need to get the hadron a helmetMay 25 23:14
schestowitzAll those collision made that crature a total nutjobMay 25 23:14
schestowitz_Goblin: it doesMay 25 23:15
schestowitzOne of the cites bitsMay 25 23:15
schestowitzAbout Captain KirkMay 25 23:15
_Goblin:)May 25 23:15
_GoblinAlthough youre going to have to go some when another shiller on the NG's (whilst insulting me with a "wet dream" comment) called the number one MS troll "Hardon" instead of "Hadron"...I couldn't resist jumping on that...May 25 23:17
_Goblinit seems theres been a sci fi theme to the bank holiday weekend....May 25 23:18
_GoblinIn respect of the "Boldly Blow" article, I was miffed with Youtube...May 25 23:28
_GoblinI had wanted to end the article on the clip of StarTrek the Undiscovered Country where the Excelsior tries to go to warp, stalls and its computers crash....May 25 23:29
_GoblinI was going to suggest that maybe Starfleet had invested in the feature rich Vista.May 25 23:29
_Goblinor its Vista 7 RC had reached its time limit and was shutting down every two hours.May 25 23:30
schestowitzStarDrek did seem to make some mileage todayMay 25 23:30
schestowitzI didn't know it was a themeMay 25 23:30
schestowitzIt's Memeorial Day anyway (For some)May 25 23:30
_Goblinan unintentional one...May 25 23:30
_GoblinI've found recently the shill posters have become so desperate there's not much really to challenge and because of that they are making mistakes...May 25 23:31
schestowitzNow it's cursingMay 25 23:31
schestowitzWait until they call us "stalins" and "hitlers" because MS is drowningMay 25 23:32
schestowitzI've seen things close to thatMay 25 23:32
_Goblinwith the majority of them its far better just to make them look silly.  The "Hardon" comment said it all.May 25 23:32
schestowitzThat's when desparation strikesMay 25 23:32
schestowitzWhen MS margins erode for startersMay 25 23:32
schestowitzHardon's QuirkyMay 25 23:32
_GoblinI had one suggest to me that my actions would make people unemployed...May 25 23:32
_Goblinam I supposed to feel remorse?May 25 23:33
_GoblinI took it as a compliment though.May 25 23:33
_GoblinTo think that he believed I was so important.May 25 23:33
_Goblinwhich of course I'm not.May 25 23:33
_Goblintheres too many people saying exactly the same thing as me..Im sure Roy you get just as many mails (probably alot more)May 25 23:34
_GoblinWhere's DaemonFC gone?May 25 23:35
_GoblinI liked him.May 25 23:35
_GoblinHe might have been a liar, but he was a loveable one.May 25 23:35
schestowitzZDNet/eWeek Ruins Peter Judge’s Good Article by Attacking Red Hat When Microsoft Does the Crime < >May 25 23:39
schestowitzAlso a punch at Ziff DavisMay 25 23:39
schestowitzLike MS WatchMay 25 23:39
schestowitzThey are in Microsoft's pocketMay 25 23:39
schestowitzI included refs in case you're new to the money connectionMay 25 23:39
schestowitz"<_Goblin> I had one suggest to me that my actions would make people unemployed..."May 25 23:40
schestowitzBulls*May 25 23:40
schestowitzIt's Microsoft that got many people unemployedMay 25 23:40
schestowitzNetscapeMay 25 23:40
schestowitzCorelMay 25 23:40
schestowitzSunMay 25 23:40
schestowitzBorlandMay 25 23:40
schestowitz..May 25 23:40
schestowitzAnd what for?May 25 23:40
_GoblinMaybe the new threat to Microsoft is OpenBytes!?!?! ;)May 25 23:41
schestowitzSo that a few billionaire executives can make bigger piles and then set up some 'foundation' which rids them from tax paymentsMay 25 23:41
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schestowitz_Goblin: maybeMay 25 23:41
schestowitzIt ain't helping themMay 25 23:41
_GoblinMaybe he's suggesting that I can do with a free blog from Wordpress, what no other company has been able to....May 25 23:41
_GoblinIf thats the case I'm in the wrong job.May 25 23:42
schestowitzAt WordPress you're immune to DDOSMay 25 23:42
schestowitz :-)May 25 23:42
schestowitzUnlike usMay 25 23:42
_GoblinI'm not a vindictive person though.  Once Openbytes has taken down Microsoft I have a job as a caretaker for Steve Ballmer.May 25 23:43
_Goblinback in the real world...May 25 23:43
_GoblinI think that Microsoft is in for a massive shock with Vista 7May 25 23:43
MinceRpeople don't want vista even if it has a different name and skin? :>May 25 23:44
schestowitzAhMay 25 23:44
schestowitz /. published the propaganda lies headline: 25 23:44
_Goblinfrom the IT uninterested I have spoken with, they neither wanted not were aware of Vista 7.May 25 23:44
schestowitzIt has only been 1 DAY!May 25 23:44
schestowitzhalf a dayMay 25 23:44
schestowitzback to my trash goes /.May 25 23:44
_Goblin*not should read *norMay 25 23:45
schestowitzMinceR: Mojave has a new skin?May 25 23:45
schestowitzCrocodile skin...May 25 23:45
MinceRmojave was a new skin tooMay 25 23:45
MinceRperhaps m$ believed their own lies about it?May 25 23:46
schestowitzSpeaking od crocodiles: 25 23:46
schestowitz_Goblin: I sish you luck in that career of a  caretaker for Steve BallmerMay 25 23:46
schestowitzWatch out for your fingerMay 25 23:46
*schestowitz thinks of Claris and HannibalMay 25 23:46
MinceRhm, did mojave get a different skin from vista?May 25 23:47
schestowitz /sish/wish/May 25 23:47
schestowitzMinceR: yesMay 25 23:47
schestowitzAnd they renamed "Mojave"  "7"May 25 23:47
_Goblinlol Offtopic for a second:  I've migrated a PC completely to AROS...Im very impressed...May 25 23:47
MinceR_Goblin: lolMay 25 23:47
MinceRhow much of AROS is working now?May 25 23:47
schestowitzHAHAMay 25 23:47
schestowitzARSE OSMay 25 23:48
_Goblinbasic net functionality..few apps, but where it shines is...May 25 23:48
schestowitzDoes it do .txt files? ;-pMay 25 23:49
_GoblinUAE support, speed and AmigaishnessMay 25 23:49
_Goblinalthough since its origins are based sqaurely with the Amiga OS, its partial to the memory leaks of its parent....just waiting for Guru Meditation.May 25 23:50
*schestowitz dumps /. againMay 25 23:51
MinceR_Goblin: does it do multiuser and file access control?May 25 23:52
_GoblinNot yet.  Ive really been using it on its own PC in conjunction with Catweasel for the "truest" possible Amiga experience....May 25 23:54
_GoblinIt does though seem to offer more/less features depending on your rig..May 25 23:54
MinceRso it's planned?May 25 23:54
_Goblincouldn't get online at all with the 64bit version.May 25 23:54
_GoblinPass.May 25 23:55
MinceRalso, do they plan to do something with that horribly ugly gui? :>May 25 23:55
_GoblinUgly?May 25 23:55
MinceR8x8 bitmap fonts in 2009? please.May 25 23:55
MinceR(at least the screenshot i saw did that)May 25 23:55
_GoblinIt wouldnt be so lovely if it did.  For the Amiga worshippers like myself, we wouldn't have it any other way.May 25 23:56
MinceR:)May 25 23:56
_Goblinor is it just me? hankering after better days?May 25 23:56
MinceRapparently they can do proportional fonts after allMay 25 23:57
MinceRno antialiasing thoughMay 25 23:57
_GoblinI remember the ST/Amiga wars.  They were not a patch on Microsoft V Everyone else.May 25 23:57
schestowitzPuppy Linux 4.2.1 < > Watch the graphics. Star WarsyMay 25 23:57
_GoblinGood distro.May 25 23:57
MinceRi think the better days lie in the futureMay 25 23:57
_Goblin@MinceR: I don't think Microsoft would agree with you.May 25 23:58
MinceRwhen the dominance of m$ will be gone and kde4 will be stable :>May 25 23:58
_GoblinThis may suprise you, but Im worried about MS's loss of the market....May 25 23:58
MinceRwhy?May 25 23:58
_GoblinIf we had mass migration to Linux (for eg) what would happen to the platform......May 25 23:59
MinceRmaybe even apple will find its placeMay 25 23:59
MinceR(web-browsing appliances for really stupid people, without being called "computers")May 25 23:59
_Goblinwould it become another bloated Vista where every whim of its users are pandered to with an add-on and tacked on code...May 25 23:59

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