IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 9th, 2009

yuhong 09 00:00
trmancoMicrosoft's Bing May Not Have Lead on Yahoo, After All: 09 00:00
yuhongBN didn't mention it but should.Jun 09 00:00
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schestowitzNo, Bing is deadJun 09 00:01
mtnd3wheyJun 09 00:01
schestowitz 09 00:01
schestowitzMicrosoft is fakingJun 09 00:02
schestowitzAs it did many times beforeJun 09 00:02
balzacI love it Roy. Love that bad news for M$.Jun 09 00:02
trmancoschestowitz, it never livedJun 09 00:02
Trojan1223I was wondering, I don't follow BN much, what is the position on the BSD license here, opposed to the GPL?Jun 09 00:02
schestowitzPaying all the tight sources of propagandaJun 09 00:02
schestowitzLike NPDJun 09 00:02
schestowitzMeasures that are localised and momentaryJun 09 00:02
trmancoit's live search with a different name, makes me remind 7Jun 09 00:02
trmancoreminds me of 7*Jun 09 00:02
schestowitztrmanco: it never LivedJun 09 00:02
trmancoheheJun 09 00:02
schestowitz[L]ive diesJun 09 00:02
trmancoLJun 09 00:02
balzacTrojan1223: I'm going to have to ask you to reel it in, man.Jun 09 00:02
schestowitzLIVE=LIVE Is Very EncumberedJun 09 00:03
mtnd3wschestowitz: have you seen this latest Novell advertisement?Jun 09 00:03
balzacno more crass variants on schestowitzJun 09 00:03
mtnd3w"Choose SUSE® Linux Enterprise Server and get top-ranked Novell support for your Existing Red Hat Environment." 09 00:03
balzacthis isn't elementary school hereJun 09 00:03
Trojan1223?Jun 09 00:04
schestowitzBING=BING Is Non-starter, GrossJun 09 00:04
balzacTrojan1223: don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about, buddy.Jun 09 00:04
schestowitzmtnd3w: anti-Red HatJun 09 00:04
Trojan1223Oh, you know who I am, I suppose?Jun 09 00:04
schestowitzNot anti-UNIX evenJun 09 00:04
schestowitzAnd can'insult the convicted criminals, eitherJun 09 00:04
schestowitzMicrosoft is not friends with the  convicted criminalJun 09 00:05
schestowitzMiguel want to be like the convicted criminalsJun 09 00:05
schestowitzThey are his idols, whom he wanted to work with/forJun 09 00:05
schestowitzNow he does both, so..Jun 09 00:05
balzacTrojan1223: no, I don't. I don't need to know who you are to ask you to reel it in when you say "lickdicz"Jun 09 00:05
Trojan1223Oh, hehJun 09 00:05
balzacI'm guessing you're an old friend of schestowitz. Is that right?Jun 09 00:05
Trojan1223No.Jun 09 00:06
schestowitzMaybe one of the sick trollsJun 09 00:06
Trojan1223Warmer.Jun 09 00:06
balzacI guess you're feeling tolerant today schestowitz.Jun 09 00:06
schestowitzLook at 'real name'Jun 09 00:06
schestowitzIt's the criminalJun 09 00:06
yuhong 09 00:06
balzacTrojan1223: are you Steve Ballmer?Jun 09 00:06
balzacsounds like his level of humor.Jun 09 00:07
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balzacjkJun 09 00:07
Trojan1223No. I own But Steve drops by all the time. Great guy.Jun 09 00:07
schestowitzNopeJun 09 00:07
balzacokJun 09 00:07
schestowitzGary is worse than necrophileJun 09 00:07
balzacyou're a dork in his 20s, I think.Jun 09 00:07
schestowitzLuckily for all of us, he hasn't much longer to liveJun 09 00:07
balzactry to act ten years older, please.Jun 09 00:07
Trojan1223balzac: was that directed at me?Jun 09 00:08
balzacyesJun 09 00:08
balzacI've read your blog beforeJun 09 00:09
yuhongThis was written by Rob Melda at /.'s 10th anniversary, and is where the comment about the /. "groupthink" that I asked to compare with a article on BN came from.Jun 09 00:09
balzacsyndicated on fsdaily.comJun 09 00:09
trmanco 09 00:09
Trojan1223Would you like an autograph?Jun 09 00:09
balzacyou're trying to be a "perez hilton" of software, i guessJun 09 00:09
balzacit's very crassJun 09 00:09
balzacno dude, you should ask for me to sign your mothers boobsJun 09 00:09
balzaci don't want your autographJun 09 00:09
Trojan1223I'm sorry you feel that way. Some people like it though, the hits don't lie.Jun 09 00:09
Trojan1223Seriously, isn't that a little imature?Jun 09 00:10
Trojan1223I didn't start a fight, no need to toss insults.Jun 09 00:10
splosionThe way I understand it, linsux is not about hating linux, it's about hating the dumbest people on the linux community. AT least that's how it's supposed to work. Is that correct, Trojan1223 ?Jun 09 00:10
balzaci'm just saying, i think she'd enjoy itJun 09 00:10
balzacjkJun 09 00:10
Trojan1223Pretty much, splosionJun 09 00:11
balzaci haven't checked it out lately, but I'm a GNU partisanJun 09 00:11
balzaci'm guessing you're from the SYFPH brigade who wants Free Software people to shut up.Jun 09 00:11
Trojan1223Well, I've used Linux for around 12/13 yearsJun 09 00:11
Trojan1223More into BSD now though.Jun 09 00:11
balzacdoesn't cut ice with me if you talk trash about GNU or FSFJun 09 00:12
Trojan1223No.Jun 09 00:12
Trojan1223I just hate people who blindly advocate something they have very little understanding of. It's not a hard concept to understand; we dislike people who install Ubuntu on their grandmothers computer.Jun 09 00:12
balzacok, what's your spiel in a couple sentences?Jun 09 00:12
balzacok, bad startJun 09 00:12
*yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")Jun 09 00:13
balzac"I hate people who...Jun 09 00:13
balzac*yawn*Jun 09 00:13
balzaci just installed ubuntu on my mother's computerJun 09 00:13
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Damn you, Windows 7 RC, Damn You!!: 09 00:13
Trojan1223Well, good for you.Jun 09 00:14
Trojan1223I don't agree with it, though.Jun 09 00:14
balzacwell, just keep in mind, you're a guest here.Jun 09 00:14
balzacso i'll feel free to talk about your mamma's boobs, and if you don't like it....Jun 09 00:14
Trojan1223Does that mean that I'm not allowed to have an opninon, or something?Jun 09 00:14
balzachehehJun 09 00:14
balzacno, just that you're in my friend Roy's houseJun 09 00:15
Trojan1223You should be banned, possibly. If it's not in line with the rules.Jun 09 00:15
splosionTrojan1223: but surely you can see the benefit in installing a simple linux distro on people's computers if their needs don't include photoshop or games or whatever?Jun 09 00:15
balzacso have a well-considered opinion, don't just append "fart" to schestowitz' nameJun 09 00:15
balzacor else you're just worsening the signal-to-noise ratioJun 09 00:15
Trojan1223Well, I know Roy is older. I'm older too. I wouldn't have friends who are imature enough to use "Your moms boobs" as an insult. Leave that for someone else.Jun 09 00:15
balzacDoes Roy know your given name?Jun 09 00:16
schestowitzGary M StewartJun 09 00:16
balzacokJun 09 00:16
balzacGary, I'm Paul GaskinJun 09 00:16
schestowitzThe guy so miserable people feel merciless and don't sue himJun 09 00:16
schestowitzSo he ain't in jailJun 09 00:16
schestowitzHis life are his punishmentJun 09 00:17
schestowitzSo he tries to harm other people's tooJun 09 00:17
schestowitztrmanco: nice linkJun 09 00:17
balzacsome people don't know how to get poontang, so they're mad at the world.Jun 09 00:17
trmanco:)Jun 09 00:17
balzacif you're an average blog/computer geek, you should probably seek a professional girl on craigslistJun 09 00:18
balzacthen try writing something coherent after that.Jun 09 00:18
trmancooh I seeJun 09 00:18
Trojan1223...Jun 09 00:18
trmancowe've got trollsJun 09 00:18
Trojan1223Me!Jun 09 00:18
Trojan1223right?!Jun 09 00:18
balzacTrolls are people tooJun 09 00:18
Trojan1223We just masturbate to ourselves. Nonstop.Jun 09 00:19
trmanco.|.Jun 09 00:19
balzacwe're up to some serious business hereJun 09 00:19
balzacBN is a big dealJun 09 00:19
trmancoyeahJun 09 00:19
trmancogoing to bedJun 09 00:19
trmancothat's serious business for me right nowJun 09 00:20
Trojan1223So, balzac. Are you a member of my site?Jun 09 00:20
balzacso we'll be happy to squelch the noise from those who aren't informativeJun 09 00:20
balzacnoJun 09 00:20
balzacnot to my knowledgeJun 09 00:20
trmancowhat site, i'm curious now?Jun 09 00:20
Trojan1223I own Linsux.orgJun 09 00:20
balzaclinsux.orgJun 09 00:20
mtnd3wlol from the article: "I was pretty nervous about doing so, but I installed Windows 7 RC1 next to openSUSE 11.1 without any trouble. I had to fix GRUB from the SUSE DVD of course but no trouble yet."Jun 09 00:20
mtnd3wg, i wonder why?Jun 09 00:20
trmancoI seeJun 09 00:21
Trojan1223It's a great site.Jun 09 00:21
mtnd3wlinsux, is that by bsd trolls?Jun 09 00:21
trmancoPrivate Registrant -> I see whyJun 09 00:22
Trojan1223No. Though, the staff are trolls and we do happen to advocate BSD for being 100 times more sane than the linux communityJun 09 00:22
mtnd3wi don't understand why bsd peeps are so threatened by linux's successJun 09 00:22
trmancoit's smallerJun 09 00:22
Trojan1223I'm not threatened by it.Jun 09 00:22
balzacJust a scanning of the topics lets me know you're not writing for my age bracket.Jun 09 00:22
Trojan1223How old are you?Jun 09 00:22
balzac33Jun 09 00:23
Trojan1223So far, you've used Your Mom jokes twice. Don't go and tell me you're somehow mature now.Jun 09 00:23
balzacwell, i'm that much more mature than you.Jun 09 00:23
Trojan1223Well, I'm older than you.Jun 09 00:23
balzac"AstralKnight, I want to fuck your mother." - trojan1223Jun 09 00:23
trmancothat doesn't mean anythingJun 09 00:24
Trojan1223But, a lot of the crazy stuff is more satire.Jun 09 00:24
balzacAll I said was I'd autograph your mother's boobs if she wanted.Jun 09 00:24
trmancololJun 09 00:24
balzacbut you went and dropped the 'f-bomb'Jun 09 00:24
balzacthat's more offensiveJun 09 00:24
balzacTrojan1223: I'm ten years your senior, personality-wise.Jun 09 00:24
balzacSome people get trapped in a permanent adolescence. I'm not one of them.Jun 09 00:25
Trojan1223If the f-bomb is offensive to you, I kindly suggest that you don't read the rest of the site. We're not liked at all by politically correct groups. Skins love us!Jun 09 00:25
mtnd3wseniority in trollingJun 09 00:25
mtnd3wi think trolls are really old in generalJun 09 00:25
balzacdon't worry about me reading your site. I scanned the topics and I have no intention of wasting my life reading that drivel.Jun 09 00:25
balzaclife is short.Jun 09 00:25
balzaci could be reading the man pagesJun 09 00:25
Trojan1223You dislike it because you don't agree with it.Jun 09 00:26
mtnd3wtrojan, want me to blog about it so you can get some hits?Jun 09 00:26
balzacalso because it has a peurile toneJun 09 00:26
Trojan1223However, if you actually read some of our site, you would find that we're a lot more sane/smarter/interesting than you thinkJun 09 00:26
balzacwell then, reel it in and I'll read it.Jun 09 00:27
balzacI get annoyed by "filler words"Jun 09 00:27
Trojan1223,125.0.htmlJun 09 00:28
balzacgratuitous use of non-informative words makes the reading harderJun 09 00:28
mtnd3wtrojan1223: RMS is my heroJun 09 00:28
DaemonFCrunning Opera 10 Beta through Peacekeeper benchmarkJun 09 00:28
Trojan1223,939.0.htmlJun 09 00:29
mtnd3wtrojan1223: your site is like the redhead middle child looking for attentionJun 09 00:29
Trojan1223Really?Jun 09 00:30
balzacTrojan1223: your site is uneccessarily annoying, gratuitously offensiveJun 09 00:30
DaemonFCand they have a right to freedom of speech as much as anyoneJun 09 00:30
balzacyou allow or perhaps encourage the commenters to bring down the discourseJun 09 00:30 its posters to research properly....Jun 09 00:30
splosionTrojan1223: putting Linux on a computer-illiterate's computer won't always turn out to be a disaster, y'knowJun 09 00:30
_Goblinquote "hen sometime later I saw that clown Stallman with his fuck'd up opensource song which, by the way, is so fucking retarded challenged I cannot even begin to explain. In all aspects pertaining to anything even remotely resembling to a "song"."Jun 09 00:31
DaemonFCas grotesque as some "freedom lovers" find thatJun 09 00:31
balzacI see ethnic slursJun 09 00:31
_Goblinsince when is stallmans relationship with Linux the same as Ballmers with MSJun 09 00:31
Trojan1223Yes, we have ethnic slursJun 09 00:31
Trojan1223lots.Jun 09 00:31
balzacDaemonFC: that's not the question. it's a question of taste.Jun 09 00:31
DaemonFCif the best program for a given task is open source/free software, I'll use itJun 09 00:31
_GoblinI think its simply potty talk....Jun 09 00:31
balzacethnic slurs can be funny - when it's people making light of them who are already known to be of the same ethnicity the slurs are about.Jun 09 00:32
DaemonFCif I feel that buying something results in the best job done, I'll do thatJun 09 00:32
_Goblinits not intelligent enough for an ethnic slurJun 09 00:32
balzaclike richard pryorJun 09 00:32
Trojan1223,903.0.htmlJun 09 00:32
_Goblingood advert for FOSS thoughJun 09 00:32
DaemonFCprotocols and file formats are much more important to open up than any particular bit of softwareJun 09 00:32
_GoblinI will certainly link to it.Jun 09 00:32
balzacbut if you're an anonymous (probably european ethnic origin), you aren't funny when you use ethnic slurs about others.Jun 09 00:32
DaemonFCwithout common protocols and file formats, it's like having a car and no roads to drive it onJun 09 00:33
Trojan1223It's not intended to be funnyJun 09 00:33
DaemonFCthe car becomes uselessJun 09 00:33
_GoblinIts not?Jun 09 00:33
Trojan1223it's intend to piss you off. Job well done.Jun 09 00:33
_GoblinI thought it was some joke I was not gettingJun 09 00:33
_Goblinsince before today I had never heard of the site I'd say its failedJun 09 00:33
balzacthere are conventions which even very controversial comedians observeJun 09 00:33
balzacbut you didn't piss me off.Jun 09 00:33
_Goblinme neitherJun 09 00:34
Trojan1223Sure, I don't buddy.Jun 09 00:34
DaemonFCOpera 10 beta has suffered a serious regressionJun 09 00:34
balzaci can see you're accustomed to people who are easily trolledJun 09 00:34
balzaci've given you some constructive criticismJun 09 00:34
Trojan1223I wouldn't expect you to be easily trolled. If I wanted to troll you it would be pretty epic. It's not like I'm trolling you now.Jun 09 00:34
balzacnow i need to get back to work. I have no time to spoon-feed you.Jun 09 00:35
Trojan1223Sure,Jun 09 00:35
_Goblinyou can troll me trojan if you wishJun 09 00:35
Trojan1223 Spoon feed, keep with the insults, I'm this, that, yadda yadda.Jun 09 00:35
balzacGary, as long as you stay within the boundaries of the law, I don't think your trolling is going to bother me.Jun 09 00:35
_GoblinWhat insults?Jun 09 00:35
Trojan1223Instead of telling me what I am, or what you think about me, try to listen to my conversation firstJun 09 00:36
balzacWell, I've said some things which ought to be obvious to you.Jun 09 00:36
balzacno dude.Jun 09 00:36
balzacI've seen the level of discourse on your site.Jun 09 00:36
_GoblinBalzac:  Who is this Trojan character....why cant I find one like them???Jun 09 00:37
_GoblinAll I seem to get is Andre Da Co$taJun 09 00:37
balzaci gave you good advice when I suggested you "reel it in"Jun 09 00:37
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Trojan1223Though, my somewhat inteligent conversation in here has no bearing on what I am, the mostly satirical site is a better teller?Jun 09 00:37
*DaemonFC wonders what the hell ever happened to Amy Lee (Evanescence)Jun 09 00:37
balzacTrojan1223: perhaps you might like to read about Larry Flynt or Lenny BruceJun 09 00:38
Trojan1223No.Jun 09 00:38
Trojan1223Not really.Jun 09 00:38
balzacLarry Flynt trolled the supreme courtJun 09 00:38
balzache's a hero of the first amendmentJun 09 00:38
splosionI don't really care whether you're a troll or not, Trojan1223 . but how about explaining why you're here?Jun 09 00:38
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Cabinet reshuffle puts Lords up front 09 00:38
Trojan1223Actually, I had questions. But people seemed more interested in other sutff.Jun 09 00:39
balzacactually, Flynt wasn't "trolling", he was making a valid point about the first amendmentJun 09 00:39
Trojan1223stuff*Jun 09 00:39
balzacanyway, I know good irreverent humor when I see it.Jun 09 00:39
balzacI know good Satire when I read itJun 09 00:39
Trojan1223Sure you do.Jun 09 00:39
balzacI'm facebook friends with Paul KrassnerJun 09 00:39
balzacI've met Robert Anton Wilson, Abby Hoffman, and othersJun 09 00:40
Trojan1223Wow.Jun 09 00:40
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schestowitzgnJun 09 00:40
balzacyeah, they're heavyweights of satireJun 09 00:40
Trojan1223Good for you.Jun 09 00:40
Trojan1223How about I ask my questions?Jun 09 00:40
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balzaclater schestowitzJun 09 00:40
splosionso let's stop bitching and get down to biznizz. ask your questions, Trojan1223Jun 09 00:41
_Goblinyeah, go on Trojan1223, ask your questionsJun 09 00:42
Trojan1223How is it that whenever someone opposes your views it always gets personal? You instantly started insulting me soon as I told you who I was, and what my views were. Is it due to insucurity?Jun 09 00:42
splosionjust for the record, I didn't :PJun 09 00:42
_Goblinwho insulted you?Jun 09 00:42
Trojan1223That's fineJun 09 00:42
Trojan1223:PJun 09 00:42
_GoblinI didnt eitherJun 09 00:42
balzacTrojan1223: I started on you much earlierJun 09 00:43
Trojan1223Not really.Jun 09 00:43
balzacI didn't hesitate, I was direct.Jun 09 00:43
balzacthen I shared my personal identity to put you at ease, since I knew yoursJun 09 00:43
Trojan1223Well, you can't really walk around the question.Jun 09 00:43
balzacI walked right past itJun 09 00:43
balzacyou can't take the personalities out of lifeJun 09 00:43
Trojan1223Probably because you can't come up with a direct answer.Jun 09 00:44
_GoblinWas that your question Trojan?Jun 09 00:44
_Goblinwas that it?Jun 09 00:44
Trojan1223Why is it that most Linux users can't live up to its short comings?Jun 09 00:45
balzacthat's not a well constructed sentenceJun 09 00:45
balzac"live up to its short comings"?Jun 09 00:46
_GoblinI use the software thats best for me.  If there are shortcomings they dont affect me.Jun 09 00:46
Trojan1223Whether it's in regards to finding a solution for the issue or just regular trollingJun 09 00:46
balzacdid you mean "own up"?Jun 09 00:46
Trojan1223WellJun 09 00:46
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splosionTrojan1223: I can live with its shortcomings. I wouldn't use Linux if I didn't. That seems like a rather silly thing to sayJun 09 00:46
Trojan1223I obviously get the chance to debate manny people in regards to this subjectJun 09 00:46
balzacTrojan1223: are you enjoying good traffic?Jun 09 00:47
Trojan1223From what?Jun 09 00:47
balzacyour siteJun 09 00:47
Trojan1223a chat room full of 30 people?Jun 09 00:47
balzacnot from here, obviouslyJun 09 00:47
_GoblinTrojan, Im having to use Windows at the moment...I look forward to returning home to my linux systemJun 09 00:47
Trojan1223if you're getting at my being here for hits, think again.Jun 09 00:47
balzacyou mentioned your traffic beforeJun 09 00:47
splosion29 idlers, tooJun 09 00:47
balzacTrojan1223: you're a half-step behind. Taking into account the network latency, you should add one one more second, because I'd already replied.Jun 09 00:48
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Damn you, Windows 7 RC, Damn You!! : 09 00:48
balzacmaybe you should spend more time using your software.Jun 09 00:48
balzacfor making moneyJun 09 00:49
Trojan1223What?Jun 09 00:49
balzacmore work, less talkJun 09 00:49
balzacif you're not enjoying enough traffic for significant income from advertisements, maybe work is a better use of your timeJun 09 00:49
balzacalso, asking "what?" is very lazyJun 09 00:50
splosionany other questions?Jun 09 00:50
balzacthis isn't a verbal conversation. you can read what I wrote.Jun 09 00:50
Trojan1223I'm quite aware of my site statistics.Jun 09 00:50
balzacwell, I'm not.Jun 09 00:50
balzacyou're in a rather subjective state of mind, it seems.Jun 09 00:50
balzacI don't care if you get as many hits as "perez hilton"Jun 09 00:50
Trojan1223Actually, I had no idea what you were talking about. So, the question what is really asking you to elaborate on your previous question.Jun 09 00:50
balzacthe internet is not a meritocracy, obviouslyJun 09 00:50
balzacthen you read itJun 09 00:51
balzacit's not a spoken conversationJun 09 00:51
Trojan1223Yes, and I didn't understand the question, so I asked you to elaborate on it.Jun 09 00:51
balzacit reads like a telephone callJun 09 00:51
Trojan1223This isn't hard.Jun 09 00:51
balzacno, you just said "what?"Jun 09 00:51
Trojan1223Would you like me to use something else?Jun 09 00:52
splosionTrojan1223: to answer what you're getting at honestly, I think that pretending Linux doesn't have shortcomings and forcing it on people who don't want it or people who need to use Photoshop or AutoCAD or whatever is likewise a dumb idea. But if you offer it to someone whose needs are just bog-standard web-browsing or whatever is fineJun 09 00:52
Trojan1223I asked what in response because I didn't understand the question, how is that an incorrect use of words?Jun 09 00:52
balzacyesJun 09 00:53
balzacincorrect.Jun 09 00:53
balzacactually, it's a signal to me that you're conceitedJun 09 00:53
Trojan1223Are you finished masturbating to yourself?Jun 09 00:53
balzacand that I'm being too nice, and wasting my timeJun 09 00:53
Trojan1223Jesus you're an assJun 09 00:53
balzacmy sex life is not something i'd discuss with youJun 09 00:54
Trojan1223Why don't you sit down and stop nit picking at stuff just for the fun of it.Jun 09 00:54
balzaci have been too patientJun 09 00:54
Trojan1223Really?Jun 09 00:54
Trojan1223Well, me tooJun 09 00:54
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yuhongWhat do you think of this?Jun 09 00:55
Trojan1223But, then again you still have no idea what's really going on hereJun 09 00:55
balzacfeel free to go back to linsux.orgJun 09 00:55
splosionhi yuhongJun 09 00:55
Trojan1223Nah, I like it hereJun 09 00:55
Trojan1223I could really troll peopleJun 09 00:55
yuhong 09 00:55
balzacwell, maybe I haven't done enough to make you not like itJun 09 00:55
yuhongWhat about Rob Melda?Jun 09 00:55
Trojan1223Would you like to try?Jun 09 00:55
balzaci willJun 09 00:55
splosionmore /. meta, yuhong? :PJun 09 00:56
yuhongYep.Jun 09 00:56
balzacif you're here next time I come here to chat, I'll ask Roy to ban you.Jun 09 00:56
Trojan1223Why is that?Jun 09 00:56
Trojan1223What did I do wrong?Jun 09 00:56
balzacbecause you have an attitude of contemptJun 09 00:56
Trojan1223Probably nothing, right?Jun 09 00:56
balzacattitudeJun 09 00:56
Trojan1223So do you, so why are you not being banned?Jun 09 00:56
yuhongWhat do you think of Rob Melda?Jun 09 00:56
Trojan1223You're the one who started, in fact.Jun 09 00:56
balzacyou can ask schestowitzJun 09 00:56
splosionbalzac: roy wouldn't ban someone from the channel unless they were seriously crapflooding itJun 09 00:57
Trojan1223Well, I guess that's pretty normal then, right? Ban the people who disagree with someone higher up.Jun 09 00:57
balzacsplosion: sometimes he'll tell tell people to reel it inJun 09 00:57
balzacTrojan1223 apparently needs to be awakened from his subjective state of mindJun 09 00:57
Trojan1223You're just being a pissy little girlJun 09 00:57
*splosion is now known as sphoneionJun 09 00:57
sphoneionbblJun 09 00:57
balzacwe're not extras in your movie, Trojan1223Jun 09 00:57
Trojan1223I don't see why we need to fight anyway, seriously. Why are you bringing so much shit to the table?Jun 09 00:58
balzacnor are we sex props in your gay erotic fantasiesJun 09 00:58
balzacwe're not fightingJun 09 00:58
balzaci'm just giving you a heads-upJun 09 00:58
Trojan1223You can call it what you wantJun 09 00:58
balzaci'm here as an entrepreneur and activistJun 09 00:58
Trojan1223You're just being an ass.Jun 09 00:58
Trojan1223:)Jun 09 00:58
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Macpup - Puppy Linux on steroids : 09 00:58
balzacno dude, i'm just not accomodating youJun 09 00:58
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Trojan1223SureJun 09 00:58
Trojan1223I know trolling when I see itJun 09 00:58
balzacyou came here taking liberties with Roy's last nameJun 09 00:59
Trojan1223you're just trying to piss people offJun 09 00:59
Trojan1223So?Jun 09 00:59
Trojan1223It was a jokeJun 09 00:59
yuhongWhat about Brian Solis's PR 2.0 initative?Jun 09 00:59
balzacand I wasn't amusedJun 09 00:59
Trojan1223lots of people have funny names, is it a crime or something?Jun 09 00:59
balzacsubjectivity againJun 09 00:59
Testify-MeYeah, no kidding.Jun 09 00:59
balzacwe're not talking about crimeJun 09 00:59
Trojan1223Well, I guess you would be offended if you assfucked Roy every night.Jun 09 00:59
Trojan1223I wish I had someone who cared about my nameJun 09 00:59
Testify-MeWow.Jun 09 00:59
Trojan1223pussy.Jun 09 00:59
balzacwe're talking about you acting like someone else's house is your living room for you to put your feet up on the coffee tableJun 09 01:00
balzacthis is not your place.Jun 09 01:00
DaemonFCmerely assfucking?Jun 09 01:00
DaemonFCman you're just not hardcore enoughJun 09 01:00
Testify-MeI figured this place was open to everyone.Jun 09 01:00
DaemonFCyou need to skip the assfucking and go straight to skull fuckingJun 09 01:00
DaemonFC:PJun 09 01:00
Testify-MeWow, what's with all the vulgarity?Jun 09 01:00
Trojan1223I'm a terrible guest. Live with itJun 09 01:00
balzacTrojan1223: I think you've said enough for a ban.Jun 09 01:00
Trojan1223So have you, bud!Jun 09 01:00
Trojan1223We should be ban buddies.Jun 09 01:01
Testify-MeYay, ban buddies!Jun 09 01:01
balzacWell, it's up to Roy to decide if he's going to moderate his signal-to-noise ratioJun 09 01:01
Trojan1223Diffferent rules for different folks, ehJun 09 01:01
Trojan1223?Jun 09 01:01
Testify-MeThat seems mighty unfair.Jun 09 01:01
balzacI'll be lobbying for you to be bannedJun 09 01:01
Trojan1223Well, that's typical with control freaks.Jun 09 01:01
balzacDaemonFC didn't get the message from Roy regarding his windows babbleJun 09 01:01
Testify-MeIsn't this a public place of discussion?Jun 09 01:02
balzacand now he's joined you in your purile sex talkJun 09 01:02
Trojan1223Sex talk?Jun 09 01:02
balzacNo, it's schestowitz' chat roomJun 09 01:02
balzacnot publicJun 09 01:02
Trojan1223Masturbation is not sexJun 09 01:02
Testify-MeIt's on Freenode, though.Jun 09 01:02
Trojan1223it's sexual I guessJun 09 01:02
Trojan1223butJun 09 01:02
DaemonFCanyone who is offended by anything probably deserves to be offended so long as no actual harm is doneJun 09 01:02
Trojan1223Should I be banned? reply with yes or noJun 09 01:02
Testify-MeNo.Jun 09 01:03
Testify-MeFreedom of Speech.Jun 09 01:03
balzacDaemonFC: harm will be done if one makes a habit of offending me.Jun 09 01:03
Testify-MeBut if he offends others, does it matter?Jun 09 01:03
Trojan1223You're a control freak, eh?Jun 09 01:03
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] 10 KDE 4 desktop widgets to make you more productive: 09 01:03
balzacno, I just defend my boundaries without hesitation.Jun 09 01:03
Trojan1223Interent tough guys are awesome!Jun 09 01:03
DaemonFCball sack over there is just pissing into the windJun 09 01:04
Trojan1223UR GONNA BEAT MY A$$ lolJun 09 01:04
DaemonFCignore himJun 09 01:04
balzacDaemonFC: you're anonymous.Jun 09 01:04
yuhongWhat do you think of Brian Solis?Jun 09 01:04
balzacLast time I got threats on freenode, i offered to visit the office of the publication in person.Jun 09 01:04
Trojan1223Poor balzacJun 09 01:04
*sean_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 01:04
sean_Bah, stupid wireless.Jun 09 01:04
balzacI wasn't far away, and I was accomodated.Jun 09 01:04
balzacGary, I like you less and less the more I hear from you.Jun 09 01:04
balzacDaemonFC: you too.Jun 09 01:05
sean_Who's Gary?Jun 09 01:05
sean_Flatfish?Jun 09 01:05
balzacTrojan1223Jun 09 01:05
balzacowns linsux.orgJun 09 01:05
sean_No, his name's Justin.Jun 09 01:05
yuhongI wonder what does schestowitz think of Rob Melda, the founder of Slashdot?Jun 09 01:05
DaemonFCbalzac: Quit being an armchair Nazi and go piss offJun 09 01:05
balzacRob Malda?Jun 09 01:05
Trojan1223We hate you man, so maybe I'll talk to roy about banning you. I know he likes your mangina and all, but you're not that great.Jun 09 01:05
DaemonFCpleaseJun 09 01:05
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 09 01:05
balzacDaemonFC: I'll be asking for Roy to ban you again.Jun 09 01:05
sean_This is kinda funny.Jun 09 01:06
balzachere you are, not even sharing your given name while you attack others.Jun 09 01:06
Trojan1223Again, balzac. You're an idiot.Jun 09 01:06
DaemonFCWhy don't you also ask God to do something to meJun 09 01:06
sean_What's your name, Balzac?Jun 09 01:06
balzacGary, my name is Paul.Jun 09 01:06
yuhong 09 01:06
yuhong 09 01:06
balzacyou're an idiot.Jun 09 01:06
DaemonFCI'll be happy to introduce you to himJun 09 01:06
Trojan1223I'm going to have a chat in the morning with Roy. I'll keep the logs and ask him what he thinks of your actions. You're the one causing shit.Jun 09 01:06
balzacGary, good luck with that.Jun 09 01:06
sean_Man, and here I was thinking this was a safe place to hang out.Jun 09 01:06
sean_Sheesh.Jun 09 01:06
Trojan1223Who the fuck is gary?Jun 09 01:06
sean_Flatfish.Jun 09 01:07
sean_Roy's old nemesis.Jun 09 01:07
Trojan1223Fuck flatfishJun 09 01:07
balzacso you're here anonymously?Jun 09 01:07
Trojan1223who the fuck is he?Jun 09 01:07
Trojan1223I'm not whoever the fuck that moron isJun 09 01:07
sean_Trojan1223: Gary "Flatfish" was a spammer on COLA.Jun 09 01:07
sean_Roy's old gang.Jun 09 01:07
balzacthat makes it even more offensive that you come here anonymously to insult people who are willing to share their given names.Jun 09 01:07
Trojan1223I'm just the guy who keeps it REELZ!Jun 09 01:07
DaemonFCbetween ballsack and twatface, you could really surprise me if you said I was being banned for anythingJun 09 01:07
yuhongI think Roy should have at least linked to this meta article.Jun 09 01:08
Trojan1223Those names were used on Digg by trolls who impersonated him. I was just posting them back because they were very funny, I actually was going to ask if he remembered those people. But seriously, you're a fucking pussy.Jun 09 01:08
sean_GASP.Jun 09 01:08
sean_Language!Jun 09 01:08
sean_=PJun 09 01:09
yuhongI wonder what Rob Melda think of SourceForge's relationship with Microsoft.Jun 09 01:09
balzacGary M Stewart is not the owner of ?Jun 09 01:09
Trojan1223The only one here who has any say is balzac, but wait, that's not true. You hump roy and he lets you choose who gets banned in return, right?Jun 09 01:09
Trojan1223No.Jun 09 01:09
sean_Well, it's not like you're allowed to have an opinion here....Jun 09 01:10
sean_Is THIS what the FOSS community is being reduced to?Jun 09 01:10
Trojan1223Unless it's inline with Roy's, or balzac will come out and SERIOUS BUSINESS YOU!Jun 09 01:10
Trojan1223YA!Jun 09 01:10
balzacTrojan1223: apparently you have lots of time to waste, fantasizing about other men on IRC.Jun 09 01:10
sean_balzac: Are you insulting homosexuality?!Jun 09 01:11
Trojan1223You're the one who fucks RoyJun 09 01:11
balzacI'd appreciate it if you would not share any more sex-fantasy in this software chatroom.Jun 09 01:11
sean_As a gay rights supporter, I'm downright offended.Jun 09 01:11
Trojan1223HahahahahahJun 09 01:11
Trojan1223WellJun 09 01:11
balzacsean_: by his use of grotesque fantasy to denigrate othersJun 09 01:11
balzacfrom behind a pseudonym?Jun 09 01:11
balzacit's pretty sad to be that kind of trollJun 09 01:11
Trojan1223SureJun 09 01:12
Trojan1223WellJun 09 01:12
balzacmore floodingJun 09 01:12
sean_I see no problem with a bit of vulgarity, but that was uncalled for, Balzac.Jun 09 01:12
balzactwo lines used up for "sure... well"Jun 09 01:12
Trojan1223You're Mr. Internetz Police. Do something about it, are you going to fight me?Jun 09 01:12
Trojan1223You're a fucking cunt, man.Jun 09 01:12
balzacmore fantasyJun 09 01:13
Trojan1223Too much serious busniess.Jun 09 01:13
sean_At least there are websites out there that let you speak your mind.Jun 09 01:13
sean_Free speech and all.Jun 09 01:13
balzacfree speech?Jun 09 01:13
sphoneionsrs bznsJun 09 01:13
Trojan1223Balzac, you're like Hitler. But not smart; I don't think you killed any jews.Jun 09 01:13
*Testify-Me has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jun 09 01:13
balzacI'll punch Trojan in the mouth if he'd like to test out his free speech directly in person.Jun 09 01:13
sean_!Jun 09 01:14
balzacprobably notJun 09 01:14
Trojan1223Oh, now we're talking about real life fights?Jun 09 01:14
*Balrog_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 09 01:14
Trojan1223over the internet?Jun 09 01:14
sean_Violent threats?!Jun 09 01:14
sean_I'm quoting this.Jun 09 01:14
Trojan1223Boy, that's tough manJun 09 01:14
sean_Sending it to Roy.Jun 09 01:14
balzacbut I'm just saying, nobody talks to me like that.Jun 09 01:14
Trojan1223that's real toughJun 09 01:14
Trojan1223SureJun 09 01:14
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balzacwhat, you have people cursing in your face?Jun 09 01:14
sean_All the time.Jun 09 01:14
balzacI don't.Jun 09 01:14
sean_You lead a sheltered life, perhaps. One walk of life does not equal another.Jun 09 01:15
Trojan1223But let me tell you, it's easy to say that in IRC. You wouldn't ever say it to my face.Jun 09 01:15
balzacTrojan1223: indeed I would.Jun 09 01:15
balzacbut I wouldn't be the one to come to you.Jun 09 01:15
sean_Ooh! Nerd fight!Jun 09 01:15
Trojan1223Well, you would have to actually meet me.Jun 09 01:15
Trojan1223But, I'm not a nerd.Jun 09 01:15
sean_Can I referee?Jun 09 01:15
balzacTrojan1223: you talk like someone who doesn't have respect for others.Jun 09 01:15
sean_Why should he, you're doing the same/Jun 09 01:15
Trojan1223Well, I am, but I'm not someone who like to pretend "I"LL KEEEL YOU IN REEL LIFE BECOZ IM BIG MOTHERFUCKER"Jun 09 01:15
balzacI'm just saying, there are some things you don't say to a man you don't know.Jun 09 01:16
Trojan1223Like I said, I doubt you would do it in real life. If you did, you'd either be stupid or really fucking ballsyJun 09 01:16
balzacyou wouldn't be saying them if you and I were in a bar.Jun 09 01:16
Trojan1223You're an interent tough guyJun 09 01:17
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balzacBecause then, I might spill some of my drink down your shoes.Jun 09 01:17
Trojan1223SureJun 09 01:17
balzacand then what would you do?Jun 09 01:17
balzacsocks all wetJun 09 01:17
balzacprobably, you'd do the smart thing and walk awayJun 09 01:17
Trojan1223I won't reply to thatJun 09 01:17
sean_Are you a psychologist?Jun 09 01:17
Trojan1223Because, I don't know youJun 09 01:17
balzacWell then, don't take liberties.Jun 09 01:17
Trojan1223Heh.Jun 09 01:17
Trojan1223Well, I'm sure you like to think that.Jun 09 01:18
Trojan1223It's hard to be a tough guy, and I can tell you're not one.Jun 09 01:18
balzacthere you go again, thinking you know what I would think.Jun 09 01:18
sean_You're doing the same thing!Jun 09 01:18
balzacoh right, what's that you said before?Jun 09 01:18
balzacWhat's that you called me before?Jun 09 01:18
Trojan1223I didn't say I was a tough guyJun 09 01:18
Trojan1223But I doubt you would do it in real lifeJun 09 01:18
balzacIf you came here to where I live and you called me a pussy, i'd make you apologize on the spotJun 09 01:19
Trojan1223SureJun 09 01:19
sean_Pff.Jun 09 01:19
sean_That's because you're insecure.Jun 09 01:19
sean_A real man would walk away and deal with it.Jun 09 01:19
balzacnopeJun 09 01:19
Trojan1223But seriously, why are you trying to act tough over the internet?Jun 09 01:19
balzacI'm not acting.Jun 09 01:19
sean_**vknhSgCDPI/InternetToughGuy.jpgJun 09 01:19
balzachow many men over thirty do you see calling eachother pussy?Jun 09 01:20
sean_Do you know any men over thirty?Jun 09 01:20
sean_Or just kids?Jun 09 01:20
balzacI'd brutalize your average guy for talking trash like that to my face.Jun 09 01:20
balzacespecially a strangerJun 09 01:20
sean_Because...?Jun 09 01:20
Trojan1223uh huhJun 09 01:20
balzacnobody says that to each otherJun 09 01:20
sean_But everyone has a right to say it.Jun 09 01:20
sean_Just because someone says something you don't like doesn't mean you can hurt them.Jun 09 01:20
balzacthat's a misconceptionJun 09 01:20
sean_No, it's common courtesy.Jun 09 01:21
balzacsean_: if that's your idea of free speech activism, I'd buy life insurance before testing that theory.Jun 09 01:21
sean_You're born into the Social Contract with that.Jun 09 01:21
sean_Violence is not a good answer to expressed opinion.Jun 09 01:22
Trojan1223You're a poser BalzacJun 09 01:22
sean_Balzac doesn't really stand for human rights or freedoms.Jun 09 01:23
sean_Just his own agenda on moral absolutism.Jun 09 01:23
Trojan1223and he thinks he's a tough guyJun 09 01:23
Trojan1223over the interent no doubtJun 09 01:23
Trojan1223what a fucking pussyJun 09 01:23
sean_Such a good frontman for someone fighting against "EVIL M$"Jun 09 01:23
balzacTrojan1223: want to find out?Jun 09 01:23
Trojan1223No.Jun 09 01:23
balzacgood ideaJun 09 01:23
Trojan1223I have no interest in going back to jailJun 09 01:23
balzacnobody talks like that in the bars I drink in, in the ball courts I play on, in the streets.Jun 09 01:23
sean_Pff.Jun 09 01:24
Trojan1223Sure you do, budJun 09 01:24
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Trojan1223You think you're tough.Jun 09 01:24
balzacno, not hereJun 09 01:24
balzacTrojan1223: doesn't matter.Jun 09 01:25
sean_You're all warm and cuddly here, right?Jun 09 01:25
Trojan1223Can I tell you something?Jun 09 01:25
Trojan1223It's very good adviceJun 09 01:25
balzacgo ahead and talk shitJun 09 01:25
balzaclet's hear itJun 09 01:25
Trojan1223Most fathers should teach it: Never mouth off or try to hurt someone you don't know, you have no idea who he is and what he will do to you if you piss him off. Even if he's 4.8, don't fuck with people you don't know.Jun 09 01:26
Trojan1223Don't mouth off to me.Jun 09 01:26
Trojan1223I'm not bragging.Jun 09 01:26
balzacTrojan1223: exactly what your father failed to teach you, supposing he even tried.Jun 09 01:26
sean_Respect your elders, Balzac.Jun 09 01:26
balzacTrojan1223: are you making a threat?Jun 09 01:26
Trojan1223No. I telling you that there's people you fuck with, and there's people who don't.Jun 09 01:27
balzacI called you out first when you used your foul mouth.Jun 09 01:27
balzacTrojan1223: are you trying to annouce your craziness?Jun 09 01:27
sean_balzac: you're just as guilty for swearing.Jun 09 01:27
balzacis that a threat?Jun 09 01:27
balzacfrom the guy?Jun 09 01:27
balzacTrojan1223: ?Jun 09 01:27
Trojan1223I'm not announcing anything.Jun 09 01:28
balzacare you threatening me?Jun 09 01:28
sean_You're threatening yourself, BN, and the FOSS community.Jun 09 01:28
balzacI told you I'd punch your dirty mouth if you insulted me to my face.Jun 09 01:28
Trojan1223I simply telling you, threatening anyone is a bad idea.Jun 09 01:28
Trojan1223Don't threaten me.Jun 09 01:28
balzacbut you appear to be making a threat.Jun 09 01:28
Trojan1223I don't like itJun 09 01:28
sean_It allll gets logged.Jun 09 01:28
Trojan1223You've made severalJun 09 01:28
sean_Logged, and put on your front page.Jun 09 01:28
sean_Such very high standards of moderation here.Jun 09 01:28
Trojan1223There's people you fuck with, and there's people you don'tJun 09 01:28
Trojan1223remember that.Jun 09 01:29
balzacTrojan1223: mine is not a threat to do anything beyond the scope of most people.Jun 09 01:29
balzacMost people don't allow others to directly call them slurs to their face.Jun 09 01:29
sean_You don't know that.Jun 09 01:29
sean_Have you been to the US?Jun 09 01:29
balzacI've learned long ago when it's time to fight.Jun 09 01:29
Trojan1223I think you have control issues.Jun 09 01:29
balzacTrojan1223: But you appeared to make a more serious threat.Jun 09 01:29
sean_I agree.Jun 09 01:29
sean_Where?Jun 09 01:29
Trojan1223I don't like people like you.Jun 09 01:29
balzacTrojan1223: yeah?Jun 09 01:29
Trojan1223Really? whereJun 09 01:30
balzaccome forth with your given nameJun 09 01:30
sean_Let's pull up the log that balzac will try and edit later.Jun 09 01:30
balzacor go away in shameJun 09 01:30
Trojan1223I don't give my name out.Jun 09 01:30
balzacso you're a sneaking cowardJun 09 01:30
sean_I give mine, though, if it's any consolation.Jun 09 01:30
sean_Fucker T. Washington.Jun 09 01:30
Trojan1223I'm a coward? Because I didn't respond to your threats of beating my face in if this were real life?Jun 09 01:31
balzacyou take liberties from the cover of anonymityJun 09 01:31
Trojan1223SureJun 09 01:31
balzacthat's a mistakeJun 09 01:31
sean_So do freedom fighters and yellow journalists.Jun 09 01:31
sean_Just look at Deepthroat.Jun 09 01:32
balzacif you cross a certain threshold, I'll be contacting your ISP and registrarJun 09 01:32
sean_The guy, not the film.Jun 09 01:32
Trojan1223You're not a very smart person, balzac.Jun 09 01:32 you better know when to let it go.Jun 09 01:32
balzacyou're anonymous, I'm notJun 09 01:32
Trojan1223Don't worry, I'm not stupid enough to make threats without covering myself up. So I don't plan on crossing lines like you do.Jun 09 01:32
Trojan1223I've simply saidJun 09 01:33
sean_balzac: You need to let things go, too. You're a fiery young man with a streak of second rate.Jun 09 01:33
balzacthat's when you have to come forth with your given name, or yield to those who do come forth from anonymityJun 09 01:33
Trojan1223there's people you fuck with, and there's people you don't fuck withJun 09 01:33
DaemonFCgo fuck yourself with a retractible baton you fascist cocksuckerJun 09 01:33
DaemonFCand by the way, my ISP is ComcastJun 09 01:33
DaemonFCand they'll tell you to kiss MY ASSJun 09 01:33
Trojan1223This guy is a little less than smartJun 09 01:33
sean_DaemonFC: I like you.Jun 09 01:33
Trojan1223Me tooJun 09 01:33
balzacDaemonFC: more sex fantasyJun 09 01:33
Trojan1223Good guy, DeamonFC. You're welcome to hit up our site anytime. VIP!Jun 09 01:33
Trojan1223:PJun 09 01:34
balzacmaybe you guys can write sex fantasy togetherJun 09 01:34
balzacbut not hereJun 09 01:34
sean_Heck, with that attitude, you could possibly get a writer/staff position!Jun 09 01:34
sean_Well, ##linsuxchat is always open for that.Jun 09 01:34
sean_As we support Free speech and human rights and whatnot.Jun 09 01:34
sean_And you're all for censorship.Jun 09 01:34
balzacsheeshJun 09 01:34
DaemonFCBalzac: I'll ahove some manga  in your Limewire share folderJun 09 01:35
Trojan1223until someone pisses him offJun 09 01:35
sean_Which is exactly what large companies try to do.Jun 09 01:35
DaemonFChow does that sound?Jun 09 01:35
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 01:35
Trojan1223then he treatens violenceJun 09 01:35
balzacTrojan1223: I just gave you a reality checkJun 09 01:35
sean_I think we should write complaints.Jun 09 01:35
Trojan1223I'm trying to give you onJun 09 01:35
Trojan1223one*Jun 09 01:35
Trojan1223don't run your mouth on the internetJun 09 01:35
balzacif you said your trash talk in person and in anger, you'd have a fight on your hands.Jun 09 01:35
Trojan1223to people you don't knowJun 09 01:35
balzacthat's expected.Jun 09 01:35
balzacTrojan1223: are you threatening me?Jun 09 01:36
balzacMy name is Paul GaskinJun 09 01:36
Trojan1223I would to your face. But by the way you talk, you're probably a 4 foot five loser.Jun 09 01:36
balzacI know you only as the chump from linsux.orgJun 09 01:36
sean_balzac: Do you listen very well?Jun 09 01:36
sean_A chump.Jun 09 01:36
balzacsean_: who are you?Jun 09 01:36
sean_Fucker T. Washington, Sir Sane, Sean TilleyJun 09 01:36
balzacsean_: not to you I don't listen well.Jun 09 01:36
sean_Aawe, well that's sweet of you.Jun 09 01:37
balzacAll of you guys come here to crap in Roy's channelJun 09 01:37
balzacand you hide your namesJun 09 01:37
sean_You started it/Jun 09 01:37
balzacI'm happy to share my name hereJun 09 01:37
sean_Mine is my main name.Jun 09 01:37
Trojan1223I don't threaten people on the internetJun 09 01:37
balzacoh no I didn't start itJun 09 01:37
balzacTrojan1223: sure you did.Jun 09 01:37
sean_You did.Jun 09 01:37
Trojan1223You don't have to start it to threaenJun 09 01:37
sean_You did, and you continued it.Jun 09 01:38
Trojan1223where did i?Jun 09 01:38
sean_You reciprocated the problem, balzac.Jun 09 01:38
sean_You only contributed, making you just as guilty.Jun 09 01:38
balzacNo, I gave a warning. Say that crap to my face, and you're at risk of a fight.Jun 09 01:38
sean_A good person can brush off the insults of others.Jun 09 01:38
sean_Are we supposed to be impressed with that?Jun 09 01:38
Trojan1223And I said, there's some people you fuck with, and some you don'tJun 09 01:38
balzacI'm not guaranteeing it. I might find you pitiful and I might want to leave you alone, because you look sad and pathetic.Jun 09 01:38
Trojan1223don't run your mouth on the interent.Jun 09 01:38
balzacBut then again, I might just lose my temper.Jun 09 01:38
sean_Pff.Jun 09 01:38
balzacTrojan1223: you're running your mouth.Jun 09 01:38
Trojan1223Oh noezJun 09 01:39
sean_You mean it's that time of the month, Balzac?Jun 09 01:39
Trojan1223he might loose his temperJun 09 01:39
Trojan1223oh goshJun 09 01:39
balzacYou're not respectful because you're hiding.Jun 09 01:39
Trojan1223I'm not, I'm telling you that you shouldn't mouth off to peopleJun 09 01:39
balzacfirst share your given name.Jun 09 01:39
Trojan1223Don't tell me that you would beat me up in real lifeJun 09 01:39
Trojan1223no.Jun 09 01:39
balzacTrojan1223: perhaps I would.Jun 09 01:39
Trojan1223Well, that's fineJun 09 01:40
Trojan1223butJun 09 01:40
Trojan1223don't run your mouthJun 09 01:40
balzacTrojan1223: I don't take orders.Jun 09 01:40
balzacyou're the one with the nasty mouthJun 09 01:40
sean_Be a better host to your guests.Jun 09 01:40
Trojan1223Neither do I. Though, you still give them to me.Jun 09 01:40
sean_Wrong.Jun 09 01:40
balzacI'm also a guest hereJun 09 01:40
sean_You contributed by firing back.Jun 09 01:40
sean_You have an equally foul mouth.Jun 09 01:40
balzacno, not equally foulJun 09 01:41
balzacalright, there's enough grist for the millJun 09 01:41
sean_Yes, equally foul. Threatening everyone in IRC like that.Jun 09 01:41
Trojan1223I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:41
balzacI've work to doJun 09 01:41
balzacoopsJun 09 01:41
balzacthere's a threat of deathJun 09 01:41
Trojan1223Not that I would do thatJun 09 01:41
Trojan1223HehJun 09 01:41 eh?Jun 09 01:41
sean_Hee.Jun 09 01:41
Trojan1223I never said it as a direct threatJun 09 01:41
Trojan1223right, sean?Jun 09 01:41
balzacoh yes you did.Jun 09 01:41
sean_Right, Trojan!Jun 09 01:41
balzacyou're not gary m stewart by any chance?Jun 09 01:42
sean_He said you desreve it.Jun 09 01:42
sean_No, he's not.Jun 09 01:42
Trojan1223I said you deserve. I didn't suggest that I would take any act on it.Jun 09 01:42
balzacRoy was wrong about your given name?Jun 09 01:42
sean_Roy's usually wrong about everything.Jun 09 01:42
balzacTrojan1223: it's called incitement and it's not protected speech.Jun 09 01:42
Trojan1223WellJun 09 01:42
balzacIf you're really the registrant of, you've got a problem now.Jun 09 01:42
Trojan1223Why's that?Jun 09 01:42
sean_"Because words are hurtful! Like fists!"Jun 09 01:42
Trojan1223I'm not threatening you. I never did.Jun 09 01:43
balzaclast time I got a death threat, I received an apologyJun 09 01:43
balzacoh yes you didJun 09 01:43
Trojan1223Really?Jun 09 01:43
balzacoh yeahJun 09 01:43
Trojan1223Do ahead.Jun 09 01:43
Trojan1223Do itJun 09 01:43
balzacI'll be contacting your registrarJun 09 01:43
balzacand your hostJun 09 01:43
sean_pfffJun 09 01:43
Trojan1223I didn't threaten you.Jun 09 01:43
balzacwhy wouldn't I go through the formality?Jun 09 01:43
balzacI did last timeJun 09 01:43
Trojan1223Because you're a pussy.Jun 09 01:44
balzacthe chatroom of a certain publication, known for having bristly guys in thereJun 09 01:44
balzacI was threatenedJun 09 01:44
balzacand I called the headquarters, which happened to be right here in NYCJun 09 01:44
balzacI received an apologyJun 09 01:44
balzacIt's not a long train-ride to that particular officeJun 09 01:44
balzacand this is not asking a lot for me to put your death threat on the recordJun 09 01:45
balzacactually, you already put it on the recordJun 09 01:45
Trojan1223Seriously, I said what I said because you act like an imature mother fucker. And you know it, if you're stupid enough to walk up to someone and do that if they acted in that way, then you deserve to get your head kicked in, because you broke the rule of: Don't fuck with people you don't knowJun 09 01:45
balzacnow I'll be seeking to uncover your identityJun 09 01:45
balzacoops, another death threatJun 09 01:45
Trojan1223Sure, death threatJun 09 01:45
balzacwe'll see if I can uncover your identityJun 09 01:45
balzacwant to make it explicit?Jun 09 01:45
balzacgo aheadJun 09 01:45
Trojan1223It's not a threatJun 09 01:46
balzacI feel there's been an implicit threat of deathJun 09 01:46
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Sir_SaneBack, sorry. I was sean_Jun 09 01:46
Trojan1223A threat would be me saying that I would do itJun 09 01:46
Sir_SaneMy wifi is absolutely terrible.Jun 09 01:46 09 01:46
Trojan1223I said you deserved it. It's like saying a rapist deserves to have his dick cut off for what he didJun 09 01:47
Sir_SaneA great site, yes?Jun 09 01:47
Trojan1223you can't call it a threat manJun 09 01:47
balzacI'm quite patient in dealing with bureaucracyJun 09 01:47
Sir_SaneAh, so you like Microsoft then!Jun 09 01:47
balzacno, you're talking about me, after I've shared my given name, and you're writing death threats from behind your pseudonymJun 09 01:47
balzacNow I'll decide how to go about this.Jun 09 01:47
Sir_SanePfff,Jun 09 01:47
Sir_SanePlease.Jun 09 01:48
Trojan1223I didn't give a death threatJun 09 01:48
balzacoh yes you didJun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneTrojan never gave a death threat.Jun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneYou threatened violence.Jun 09 01:48
Trojan1223I told you that you deserve to have that happen if you're dumb enough to try that on someone you don't know.Jun 09 01:48
balzac00:57 < Trojan1223> I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head  smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:48
balzac00:57 < Trojan1223> I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head  smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneThat's not a death threat.Jun 09 01:48
balzac00:57 < Trojan1223> I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head  smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneThat's not a death threat.Jun 09 01:48
Trojan1223Stop spammingJun 09 01:48
Trojan1223it's not a death threatJun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneSpamming his own channel.Jun 09 01:48
Trojan1223But go aheadJun 09 01:48
Trojan1223try itJun 09 01:48
balzacTrojan1223, aka linsux.orgJun 09 01:48
Sir_SaneFor his own sense of moral absolutism.Jun 09 01:48
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Trojan1223It's not a death threat, in anyway. You know it.Jun 09 01:49
balzacoh yes it is.Jun 09 01:49
Sir_Sanebalzac likes to nitpick, loves beauracracy...Jun 09 01:49
Sir_SaneAre you Steve Ballmer?!Jun 09 01:49
Trojan1223You're just being dramatic, because you were trying to make me threaten you so you could trap me.Jun 09 01:49
Trojan1223that's pretty sadJun 09 01:49
balzacyou've forced my handJun 09 01:49
Trojan1223what hand?Jun 09 01:49
Trojan1223I didn't threaten youJun 09 01:49
Sir_SaneBesides which, balzac: It's meaningless that you "give your name", because it can be easily fabricated.Jun 09 01:49
Trojan1223hehJun 09 01:49
Sir_SaneYou could've made it up, just like Trojan could say his name is David Smith.Jun 09 01:50
Trojan1223I'm sure there's other people in here that will oppose your views and help meJun 09 01:50
balzacthe hand which will write the emails to your registar, your webhostJun 09 01:50
balzacgood luck with that linsux.orgJun 09 01:50
Sir_SaneOooh, such power!Jun 09 01:50
Sir_SaneGoodness me!Jun 09 01:50
Trojan1223I have no idea what your real name is, just because you said it was doesn't magically make it suchJun 09 01:50
Sir_SaneBe sure to send them the whole chat log.Jun 09 01:50
Trojan1223oohhhhJun 09 01:50
Trojan1223I'm scard!Jun 09 01:50
mtnd3wgreat news, a special effects programmer just released his code to the GPL3: 09 01:50
Sir_SaneIt's okay David Smith, we'll be alright.Jun 09 01:50
Trojan1223big bad balzac has no standing.Jun 09 01:50
Trojan1223I know my rightsJun 09 01:51
Trojan1223trust meJun 09 01:51
Sir_SaneDavid Smith knows his rights!Jun 09 01:51
Sir_SaneClearly!Jun 09 01:51
balzacPaul Gaskin is the nameJun 09 01:51
Sir_SaneWrong.Jun 09 01:51
balzacwww.disruptech.comJun 09 01:51
Trojan1223It wasn't a threat, though, if I win there will be other 'legal' action taken against you for saying that I did something that I didn'tJun 09 01:51
balzacwould you like to apologize?Jun 09 01:52
Sir_SaneWould you?Jun 09 01:52
balzacI might feel less threatenedJun 09 01:52
Trojan1223for what?Jun 09 01:52
Trojan1223no. I didn't threaten anybody. Do ahead and do something thoughJun 09 01:52
Trojan1223I'm not fucking stupidJun 09 01:52
balzacI think you are.Jun 09 01:52
Trojan1223You're like the asshole who pretends to get hit by a carJun 09 01:52
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balzac00:57 < Trojan1223> I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head  smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:53
balzachmmm...Jun 09 01:53
*ViperChief ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 01:53
balzacfrom the admin and registrant of linsux.orgJun 09 01:53
Trojan1223How was that a direct threat? I said you deserved itJun 09 01:53
zer0c00lfinally they decided to decrypt my emails : 09 01:53
mib_cy7m4myou seem to like threating physical violence balzacJun 09 01:53
Sir_SaneHe DOES deserve it.Jun 09 01:53
Trojan1223not that I would take part, or have anything to do with thatJun 09 01:53
balzacyou're sure making BSD users proud aren't you?Jun 09 01:53
Trojan1223and do you know why I'm tellingyou this?Jun 09 01:53
Sir_SaneNo, why? Explain! Explain!Jun 09 01:53
balzacit's called 'incitement'Jun 09 01:54
Trojan1223Because i've seen it happenJun 09 01:54
Sir_SaneIt's called "Fuck you"Jun 09 01:54
ViperChiefYou guys are all stupid.Jun 09 01:54
balzaceven if you aren't directly threatening to act on it, you're potentially inciting less stable than yourselfJun 09 01:54
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balzachow many readers does your blog have?Jun 09 01:54
balzacTrojan1223: look it up. incitement.Jun 09 01:54
Sir_SaneIt's a forum, first of all.Jun 09 01:54
balzacyou said i deserve to be killed.Jun 09 01:54
Sir_SaneWe get thousands of hits on a daily basis.Jun 09 01:54
Sir_SaneYou do, with a mouth like that.Jun 09 01:55
balzacSir_Sane: you've endorsed the idea that I deserve to die.Jun 09 01:55
Trojan1223Sure, and that guy who raped and killed Tori deserves to be beat to deathJun 09 01:55
balzacdeath threat number three from linsux.orgJun 09 01:55
Sir_Sanebalzac: Yes, but none of us are going to carry it out for the sake that we value human life.Jun 09 01:55
balzacyou guys are a class act.Jun 09 01:55
ViperChiefbalzac: psst, people are entitled to their own opinions.Jun 09 01:55
Trojan1223You're an idiot balzacJun 09 01:55
balzaci have no confidence in the sanity of your usersJun 09 01:55
balzacI see racial slursJun 09 01:55
Trojan1223I want you to do what you said you wouldJun 09 01:55
Trojan1223try itJun 09 01:55
balzacand death threatsJun 09 01:55
Sir_SaneWe have no confidence in you.Jun 09 01:55
balzacthat's an ugly combinationJun 09 01:55
ViperChiefRacial slurs? So what? Freedom of Speech, dumbassJun 09 01:56
balzaccombined with cowardly anonymityJun 09 01:56
Trojan1223There was no death threats. I didn't threaten youJun 09 01:56
balzacyou even went to the trouble of a private registrationJun 09 01:56
Sir_SaneI basically gave out who I was.Jun 09 01:56
ViperChiefI don't get pissed at all these whiteys, and neither should youJun 09 01:56
Sir_SaneViperChief is our resident black person.Jun 09 01:56
ViperChiefAnd I don't remember any death threatsJun 09 01:56
balzaca gang of racist, anonymous, guys who make threatsJun 09 01:56
Trojan122300:57 < Trojan1223> I'm not the one with the nasty mouth. If you think violence would solve an issue like that, then you deserve to have your fucking head  smashed in with a tire iron. You don't talk to people like that while not in person.Jun 09 01:56
Trojan1223he thinks that's a death threatJun 09 01:56
balzacyeah, I think it isJun 09 01:57
Sir_SaneBrb, I'm getting some snacky pies.Jun 09 01:57
ViperChiefYou didn't say he should dieJun 09 01:57
Trojan1223he told me that if I called him a pussy to his face, he'd beat it inJun 09 01:57
ViperChiefJust get beat the fuck upJun 09 01:57
balzacfrom you and endorsed by Sir_SaneJun 09 01:57
Trojan1223so I said thatJun 09 01:57
ViperChiefWHO CARES ABOUT SLURS!Jun 09 01:57
Trojan1223now he's threatening to close down linsuxJun 09 01:57
Trojan1223by reporting usJun 09 01:57
ViperChiefFor what?Jun 09 01:57
Trojan1223the threatJun 09 01:57
balzacTrojan1223: I'm more interested in revealing your identityJun 09 01:57
balzacnot closing down your blogJun 09 01:57
Trojan1223where he thinks I threatened to kill himJun 09 01:57
ViperChiefSorry, but if pedo websites get to stay open for "Freedom of Speech" I think we'll be just fine, since we're nowhere near tha tbadJun 09 01:58
balzacyou did incite violence by saying I deserved to be murderedJun 09 01:58
Trojan1223No, I didn'tJun 09 01:58
balzacthat's called incitement, and it's not protected speech.Jun 09 01:58
Trojan1223Where do you think I live?Jun 09 01:58
ViperChiefHe said you should be smashed with a tire iron, not killed. There's a difference, dumbassJun 09 01:58
balzacand you get thousands of visits, Sir_Sane saysJun 09 01:58
Trojan1223True, aswellJun 09 01:58
grubbybalzac: I think you're taking it a little too seriouslyJun 09 01:58
Trojan1223ActuallyJun 09 01:58
Trojan1223we had 30,000 hits for mayJun 09 01:58
balzacViperChief: are you a member of 09 01:59
ViperChiefSo what? I can say that the guy I work with deserves to get his ass kicked for being stupid. That doesn't mean I'm inciting shit. I'm just venting and saying shitJun 09 01:59
balzacgrubby: I think not.Jun 09 01:59
balzacViperChief: it depends on the circumstancesJun 09 01:59
ViperChiefI'm a member if your mom's house.Jun 09 01:59
Trojan1223You have nothing to stand on BalzacJun 09 01:59
balzacthe circumstances for the registrant are not favorableJun 09 01:59
Trojan1223No need to continue threatening me.Jun 09 02:00
balzacthe combination of racist slurs and death threats doesn't make people look fondly on youJun 09 02:00
ViperChiefWhy not? Please, tell me. Tell me how venting and voicing an opinion are evilJun 09 02:00
Trojan1223There's no death threats.Jun 09 02:00
ViperChiefOkay, this bring up the beautiful hypocrisy that is the Linux community.Jun 09 02:00
Trojan1223Well guysJun 09 02:00
Trojan1223I need to go get stonedJun 09 02:00
Trojan1223I'll be back here in the morningJun 09 02:00
ViperChiefFreedom = Good Unless You disagree with meJun 09 02:01
Trojan1223I'm keeping the log to show RoyJun 09 02:01
balzacIf people with a sizeable audience say you deserve to die, the result is that it raises the risk someone less stable than yourself will act.Jun 09 02:01
ViperChiefTrojan, go reply to my PM on the siteJun 09 02:01
Trojan1223Also, Balzac, don't threaten people.Jun 09 02:01
balzacViperChief: what's your given name? have you received a death threat today?>Jun 09 02:01
Trojan1223Oh, about the ftp?Jun 09 02:01
*sean_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 09 02:01
Trojan1223Can it wait until the morning?Jun 09 02:01
ViperChiefSo, you think that some unstable guy is going see what we say, track you down and kill you?Jun 09 02:01
Trojan1223waitJun 09 02:01
ViperChiefAre you fucking seriousJun 09 02:01
Trojan1223go on msn and I'll give itJun 09 02:01
ViperChiefYesJun 09 02:01
Trojan1223quickJun 09 02:01
grubbybalzac: What's funny is, nobody can tell anything about you from a forum post. Unless you were stupid enough to include personal details thereJun 09 02:01
balzacgrubby: this channel is intended to be civilized and safeJun 09 02:02
ViperChiefGood luck with that one in courtJun 09 02:02
zer0c00l :(Jun 09 02:02
balzacRoy Schestowitz blogs under his given nameJun 09 02:02
balzacI share my given name hereJun 09 02:02
x33bcivil and safe? on the internet? no such thing.Jun 09 02:02
balzacPaul GaskinJun 09 02:02
ViperChiefGood for youJun 09 02:02
balzacx33b: civil discourse can be maintainedJun 09 02:02
ViperChiefAnd, yes, I have been given death threatsJun 09 02:02
grubbyUm, ok, anyone can access your site, it doesn't matter how much you "intend" for it to be "civilized and safe."Jun 09 02:02
balzacnot today thoughJun 09 02:03
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ViperChiefUnlike you, I don't take them seriously and threaten to take people to court.Jun 09 02:03
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ViperChiefUsually, there venting and pissed. I take it with a grain of salt.Jun 09 02:03
balzacare you guys all members of the forum?Jun 09 02:03
balzacViperChief: ?Jun 09 02:03
balzacgrubby: ?Jun 09 02:03
Trojan1223YupJun 09 02:03
balzacx33b: ?Jun 09 02:03
Trojan1223yupJun 09 02:03
grubbyDoes that make our opinions suddenly invalid?Jun 09 02:03
Trojan1223Well, night guysJun 09 02:03
Trojan1223Night Balzac.Jun 09 02:03
balzachere to support your administrator after he calls me names and threatens me?Jun 09 02:03
ViperChiefI'm the High Lord of Linsux. It says so over there. And it's on the webz, so it must be trueJun 09 02:03
balzachere from your website with your racial slurs on it?Jun 09 02:04
Trojan1223I didn't threaten you.Jun 09 02:04
ViperChiefagain, I'm not offended by these crackers, so neither should youJun 09 02:04
balzaci feel less safe than before you said I deserved to be attacked with a tire ironJun 09 02:04
ViperChiefSeriously?Jun 09 02:04
mtnd3wwowJun 09 02:04
balzacto have my [explitive] head smashed inJun 09 02:04
x33bI came to see wtf you two were arguing about. If possible put out nothing but hate at anyone and everyone. Though I got bored with that pretty fast and no longer care.Jun 09 02:04
balzacoh yeahJun 09 02:04
mtnd3wis trolljan still going?Jun 09 02:04
ViperChiefI mean, you seriously think that one of us is going to take the time to find out who you are and come find you and do it?Jun 09 02:04
Trojan1223He thinks I gave him death threatsJun 09 02:05
balzacI'll be looking at my options to uncover the identity of the registrant of linsux.orgJun 09 02:05
ViperChiefWe're VENTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Jun 09 02:05
balzacthat'll probably be enough for me to expose your identityJun 09 02:05
ViperChiefCan you get that through your think skull?Jun 09 02:05
ViperChief*thickJun 09 02:05
balzacracial slurs and death threats, courtesy of linsux.orgJun 09 02:05
Trojan1223What will you do with this information?Jun 09 02:05
Trojan1223there were no threats.Jun 09 02:05
x33bYou'll do what with his identity? be a internet tough guy?Jun 09 02:05
ViperChiefThe chances of something like that happening to you is less then the chance that world peace will be achieved by noon on Friday.Jun 09 02:06
balzacI will feel more secure knowing the name of the person who used inciteful language regarding murdering meJun 09 02:06
x33bthe fact is that everyone here is a giant wuss and would never do anything in real life.Jun 09 02:06
Trojan1223Again, you're not unlike the guy who pretends to get hit by a car, then sues the driver.Jun 09 02:06
ViperChiefWow. You're about as bright as a burned out lightbulb.Jun 09 02:06
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Trojan1223WellJun 09 02:06
Trojan1223ttyl guyJun 09 02:06
Trojan1223guy's*Jun 09 02:06
ViperChiefA 1st year lawyer could beat your case, idiotJun 09 02:07
ViperChiefLaterJun 09 02:07
*Trojan1223 has quit ()Jun 09 02:07
ViperChiefYou remind me of a little kid.Jun 09 02:07
ViperChiefBe honest, how old are you? 13? 15? somewhere around thereJun 09 02:07
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ViperChief"These guys were mean to me!"Jun 09 02:07
ViperChiefFreedom, guys, unless it disagrees with me.Jun 09 02:07
mtnd3wlolJun 09 02:08
mtnd3wyou made him quitJun 09 02:08
Sir_SaneDid he leave?Jun 09 02:08
ViperChiefListen, here's what's upJun 09 02:08
mtnd3w* Trojan1223 has quit ()Jun 09 02:08
ViperChiefHe said he was leavingJun 09 02:09
ViperChiefDDOS happens to BN.Jun 09 02:09
ViperChiefWe laughed about it.Jun 09 02:09
Sir_SaneOMG.Jun 09 02:09
Sir_SaneWe laughed about it?!Jun 09 02:09
Sir_SaneHOW HORRIBLE.Jun 09 02:09
ViperChiefNext thing you know, we caused it. I'm not sure how that logic happenedJun 09 02:09
Sir_SaneBecause laughter begets condoning.Jun 09 02:09
ViperChiefLaughing about something = Doing itJun 09 02:09
x33bomg, someone made fun of you deal with it. Don't be pussy, grow some balls and deal with it.Jun 09 02:09
Sir_SaneGoodness me!Jun 09 02:09
ViperChiefAnyway, I can't figure it out. So we laughed about it and said they deserved it, etc. Whatever.Jun 09 02:10
ViperChiefNot one member of our community did it. That I can promise you.Jun 09 02:10
*sphoneion is now known as splosionJun 09 02:10
ViperChiefIf it was someone in our community, they would've gotten banned for illegal activity.Jun 09 02:10
ViperChiefWe do not condone illegal activity.Jun 09 02:10
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splosionis everyone still arguing? what's all this about DDOS?Jun 09 02:10
ViperChiefAnyway, We start getting threats of shutdown because we laughed at BN. Who the fuck cares? BN has their opinion, and we are entitled to ours.Jun 09 02:11
Sir_SaneNothing, people are just whining about how Free Speech is overrated.Jun 09 02:11
x33ball i know is someone is whining and being a pussy. Thats bout itJun 09 02:11
*DaemonFC` is now known as DaemonFCJun 09 02:12
ViperChiefPersonally, I think BN is just full of people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about and elect to spread FUD through the Linux community.Jun 09 02:12
splosionViperChief: are you from linsux as well?Jun 09 02:12
tessierschestowitz: tracyrreed is my twitterJun 09 02:12
ViperChiefOops, don't want to offend virgin ears.Jun 09 02:12
tessierYeah, I can make the server allow directory listings. Just be careful with it as it can sometimes expose things you didn't intend.Jun 09 02:12
ViperChief"don't know what the frick they are talking about..."Jun 09 02:13
mtnd3wViperChief: majority of the articles on BoycottNovell have citations and sourcesJun 09 02:13
ViperChiefOkay, it doesn't mean it's not FUD.Jun 09 02:13
Sir_SaneTo themselves.Jun 09 02:13
zer0c00ldoes any one  have good article on iis and apache regarding security issues ?Jun 09 02:13
ViperChiefMS has citations and sources, also, yet ya'll would jump to call it FUD.Jun 09 02:13
Sir_SaneRoy often uses his own articles as citations, or sometimes balzac's comments.Jun 09 02:13
Sir_Sane 09 02:14
ViperChiefSir_Sane: that's why I just write two posts. That way they can reference each other and it's all fact!Jun 09 02:14
Sir_SaneCheck these.Jun 09 02:14
mtnd3wMS... is a private corporation with money backed advertisementJun 09 02:14
mtnd3wboycottnovell is notJun 09 02:14
ViperChiefPsst....Novell is a private corporation, too.Jun 09 02:14
Sir_SaneAnd that automatically makes BN correct?Jun 09 02:14
Sir_SaneCheck the link I just posted, and look at what he's citing.Jun 09 02:14
ViperChiefNovell didn't get into the Linux business for ideological reasons. They got into it to, GASP, make money.Jun 09 02:14
splosionSir_Sane: i don't think roy has ever written an article that relies entirely on sources from his previous articles. Sure he references his own stuff a lot but it isn't all he doesJun 09 02:15
ViperChiefSo, they are going to do what it takes to make money.Jun 09 02:15
Sir_SaneHe does a lot of it.Jun 09 02:15
splosionyupJun 09 02:15
ViperChiefTo hold them to the FSF or GNU standards is retarded.Jun 09 02:15
ViperChiefIf anything, some good shit has come out of their agreement with MS.Jun 09 02:15
Sir_SaneAt least the FSF banks on hope and comes up with solutions.Jun 09 02:15
Sir_SaneBN does not.Jun 09 02:16
ViperChiefNovell made some good money, which they were able, I'm sure, to put in R&D.Jun 09 02:16
Sir_SaneHeck, look at how many Novell workers contribute on the kernel!Jun 09 02:16
Sir_SaneAnd libc!Jun 09 02:16
ViperChiefMono and Moonlight is what will help Linux to be adopted more. When a person/company can run .Net apps on MS or Linux, shit will start changing.Jun 09 02:16
Sir_SaneAnd if you don't like it, don't use it.Jun 09 02:17
ViperChiefYa'll have so much damn hatred for MS, that you can't see the positives and how it can actually help Linux development.Jun 09 02:17
balzacnow I've saved 4500 lines to the logJun 09 02:17
splosionViperChief: novell contributes a lot to linux in general. but what about Red Hat? they contribute more than anyone, make a butt-ton more money than novell, aren't hated by anyone in the community, and their attitude is "fuck you and your patents"Jun 09 02:17
x33bThe business world could give a rats behind about FOSS, and I don't blame them. There is no money in it and i wouldn't use it either if I was a developerJun 09 02:17
mtnd3wMono is a license trapJun 09 02:17
Sir_SaneLies.Jun 09 02:17
ViperChiefReally? You're going to compare Novell and RH? RH was highly productive years ago.Jun 09 02:17
ViperChiefNow, who do you hear more about RH or Novell?Jun 09 02:18
mtnd3wNovell doesn't give a rats ass about progression of LinusJun 09 02:18
mtnd3wLinux*Jun 09 02:18
Sir_SaneProve it.Jun 09 02:18
mtnd3wThey're in it for the moneyJun 09 02:18
Sir_SaneTheir own market is really starting to bank on it.Jun 09 02:18
Sir_SaneJust because they don't share your vision doesn't make them bad.Jun 09 02:18
ViperChiefWho's doing more for interoperability. I hate to tell you something, but without interoperability, Linux will never be accepted on the desktop. Period. Dot.Jun 09 02:18
x33bMono isn't a license trap. if you have a version and it's license changes, you are still under the old license. The EULA for that piece of software didn't change.Jun 09 02:18
ViperChief.Net is a standard, now. Deal with it. Mono makes interoperability a lot easier.Jun 09 02:18
mtnd3wWe are dealing with itJun 09 02:19
splosionViperChief: look I'm all for interopability, I just want it to be real operability, not just a bunch of proprietary garbage that only one company is allowed to controlJun 09 02:19
mtnd3wthrough BoycottNovell.comJun 09 02:19
ViperChiefIn the most negative way you can think ofJun 09 02:19
ViperChiefThey invented it, they get to determine it's course.Jun 09 02:19
neonfloss<3 boycottnovellJun 09 02:19
neonfloss:pJun 09 02:20
ViperChiefI love Open Source. I think it's fucking the best way, but I also recognize that the people who invent something get to determine it's course.Jun 09 02:20
mtnd3w.Net is inferior, thats why all the applications lag like crap and crashJun 09 02:20
mtnd3wnot to mention resource hogJun 09 02:20
Sir_SaneJust like Sun got to determine ODF.Jun 09 02:20
Sir_SaneProve it.Jun 09 02:20
ViperChiefBullshitJun 09 02:20
Sir_SaneApps like Banshee run absolutely great.Jun 09 02:20
mtnd3wBanshee is shitJun 09 02:20
ViperChiefI use .Net programs w/o a problem.Jun 09 02:20
mtnd3wlolJun 09 02:20
ViperChiefI use Mono problems without a problemJun 09 02:20
Sir_SaneThe benchmarks are actually superior to native Qt.Jun 09 02:20
Sir_SaneOr GTK apps.Jun 09 02:20
mtnd3wwhat else you gotJun 09 02:21
grubbymtnd3w: Even if banshee was shit, that doesn't mean it's .net's faultJun 09 02:21
mtnd3wTomboy?Jun 09 02:21
*trojan ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 02:21
trojanHey again!Jun 09 02:21
ViperChiefTomboy is fucking awesome. I use that shit dailyJun 09 02:21
Sir_SaneHi trojan.Jun 09 02:21
Sir_SaneI use it for my university studies!Jun 09 02:21
mtnd3wThats why it got excluded in FedoraJun 09 02:21
mtnd3wlolJun 09 02:21
mtnd3wGnote FTWJun 09 02:21
trojanIs Mr. Internetz Tough Guy/Police here?Jun 09 02:21
Sir_SaneFor their own moral reasons.Jun 09 02:21
Sir_Sanebalzac: Wake up.Jun 09 02:21
splosionI use mpd for my music. Shits all over your RAM-hungry music apps, regardless of whther they use mono or notJun 09 02:21
Sir_SaneI use mono because I actually like it.Jun 09 02:22
trojanMono is cool.Jun 09 02:22
*mib_esnwff (i=442fe926@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 02:22
DaemonFC 09 02:22
mtnd3wbring moar trollsJun 09 02:22
DaemonFCThe Governator bashes gays and praises BushJun 09 02:22
DaemonFCin this half hour shitfestJun 09 02:22
Sir_SaneBoo.Jun 09 02:23
ViperChiefMono was an outstanding project. It's been the best attempt to get MS programs to work on Linux seamlesslyJun 09 02:23
Sir_SaneBesides Wine.Jun 09 02:23
mtnd3wlolJun 09 02:23
*trojan has quit (Client Quit)Jun 09 02:23
Sir_SaneNo one seems to mind Wine at all.Jun 09 02:23
ViperChiefWine is sketchyJun 09 02:23
balzacWell, I've contacted DreamHost who is the registrant and the host for linsux.orgJun 09 02:23
DaemonFCWine has been more importantJun 09 02:23
balzacregistrarJun 09 02:23
DaemonFCno respectable Windows programmer will use .NetJun 09 02:23
balzacI've saved the log, and I'm logging the restJun 09 02:23
ViperChiefI can actually use .Net code straight on Mono and it Just Works(tm)Jun 09 02:23
ViperChiefooohJun 09 02:24
DaemonFCit surprises me that anyone would even WANT to port it to LinuxJun 09 02:24
ViperChiefYou gots a logJun 09 02:24
Sir_Sanebalzac: Promise not to alter the log?Jun 09 02:24
ViperChiefActually, .Net is growing fastJun 09 02:24
splosionOl Mark Shuttlworth said that if mono ever becomes a legal hassle then they'll just go right ahead and jettison it from Ubuntu. People in the other distros mailing lists have said stuff similar. I think this is the sane approach to mono.Jun 09 02:24
balzacSir_Sane: of course not.Jun 09 02:24
mtnd3wMono if for pseudo programmersJun 09 02:24
mtnd3wthats why the mono apps suckJun 09 02:24
DaemonFCI won't use programs written in .Net because they have obscene overheadJun 09 02:24
Sir_Sanebalzac: You mean, you will alter it, or you won't?Jun 09 02:24
ViperChiefIt depends on what you're doing. For some things .Net is much better.Jun 09 02:24
x33bno respectable windows program will use .net? What planet did you come from? .net is used all over in the enterprise location. Who cares about the home user?Jun 09 02:24
mib_esnwffwhy would you use .Net when you could use something like Java or Python?Jun 09 02:24
DaemonFCand it's rapidly becoming the catch all for sub-standard programmersJun 09 02:24
DaemonFCwho can't use C/C++Jun 09 02:25
Sir_SaneAdventure Game Studio uses .NET.Jun 09 02:25
balzacSir_Sane: you are one of the culprits who has endorsed the idea that I should be murdered for my "attitude"Jun 09 02:25
ViperChiefAgain, flawed. I use .Net programs that run with minimal overhead and run just as fast as compiled codeJun 09 02:25
mtnd3wviperchief soJun 09 02:25
ViperChiefsoJun 09 02:25
x33bJava is slow and who uses python besides Linux programmers?Jun 09 02:25
Sir_Sanebalzac: Shut the fuck up, all I ever did was agree with Trojan.Jun 09 02:25
mtnd3wyou're really jo shields right?Jun 09 02:25
ViperChiefIs that the best answer you got?Jun 09 02:25
DaemonFCI tried using CDBurnerXP, which is probably the best example of a .Net clusterfuckJun 09 02:25
balzacSir_Sane: you agreed that I should be murdered?Jun 09 02:25
DaemonFCand it nearly crashed Vista when it ran out of RAM burning a DVDJun 09 02:25
DaemonFC(I have 4 gigs of RAM)Jun 09 02:25
ViperChiefbalzac: how old are you?Jun 09 02:25
balzacdon't give commands to me, it only reinforces the idea that you're threatening meJun 09 02:26
Sir_Sanebalzac: No, I agreed with the concept that you should watch your mouth and loosen up, which was Trojan's central thesis.Jun 09 02:26
splosionmurder? sheesh I missed out on a bunch of stuff it seemsJun 09 02:26
mtnd3wwhy are mono crusaders so worried about age?Jun 09 02:26
mtnd3wtrolljan was asking the same questionJun 09 02:26
ViperChiefBecause you seem like a young kid who's upset that we're not agreeing with you and "playing nice"Jun 09 02:26
mtnd3wViper, i bet you're the same guyJun 09 02:26
DaemonFCI don't avoid .Net because of licensingJun 09 02:26
Sir_SaneNo, he's not.Jun 09 02:26
ViperChiefsame guy as what?Jun 09 02:26
mib_esnwffwasn't Youtube written in python?Jun 09 02:26
DaemonFCI avoid it because the poorest programs in any class are always written in itJun 09 02:26
Sir_SaneNo, YouTube was written with OpenLazsloJun 09 02:26
balzacThe racial slurs add context to the incitement languageJun 09 02:27
mtnd3wso name me a killer app written in Mono/.Net?Jun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneBansheeJun 09 02:27
Sir_SanetomboyJun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneF-SpotJun 09 02:27
mtnd3wroflJun 09 02:27
mtnd3wahahahahJun 09 02:27
DaemonFCthere are no killer appsJun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneAdventure Game StudioJun 09 02:27
grubbyCDBurnerXPJun 09 02:27
DaemonFCthey range from terrible to almost mediocreJun 09 02:27
ViperChiefmtnd3w: No, it has nothing to do with Mono. It has to do with his whiny attitudeJun 09 02:27
DaemonFCCDBurnerXP sucksJun 09 02:27
DaemonFCsee my last comment about itJun 09 02:27
ViperChiefAn adult is not going to get all "ZOMG You threatened me"Jun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneAGS is a great easy-to-use game IDE for beginning developers. If ported with Mono, it'd allow for true Linux development for games.Jun 09 02:27
x33bKiller .net programs?Jun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneA whole community could be opened up!Jun 09 02:27
Sir_SaneAGS.Jun 09 02:27
balzacit's odd to see all you windows users here chatting off topicJun 09 02:27
ViperChiefFor instance, if someone "threatened" me, I would just turn around and shit-talk him right backJun 09 02:27
DaemonFC<DaemonFC> I tried using CDBurnerXP, which is probably the best example of a .Net clusterfuck and it nearly crashed Vista when it ran out of RAM burning a DVD (I have 4 gigs of RAM)Jun 09 02:28
balzacand most of you from linsux.orgJun 09 02:28
balzacit's oddJun 09 02:28
x33bI don't know of anything outside enterprise. Which you wouldn't knowJun 09 02:28
mtnd3wviperchief: an adult is not to troll & ddos websites because they have opposing opinionsJun 09 02:28
balzaclike you're whistling, oh yeah, business as usualJun 09 02:28
*neonfloss has quit ("Leaving")Jun 09 02:28
ViperChiefNone of us DDoS'd any websitJun 09 02:28
x33bwho DDOS your website?Jun 09 02:28
ViperChief*websiteJun 09 02:28
DaemonFC.Net apps won't replace better ones written in real programming languagesJun 09 02:28
Sir_SaneDid Roy even read the email I sent him?Jun 09 02:28
Sir_SaneClearly, your logs say he did.Jun 09 02:28
Sir_SaneRead it out to the whole IRC.Jun 09 02:28
DaemonFCjust like Windows Media Player hasn't stopped anyone from going to find VLC or WinampJun 09 02:28
Sir_SaneHow mature.Jun 09 02:29
balzacViperChief: I don't like the effect that death threats have on a forumJun 09 02:29
ViperChiefWe;ve stated, multiple times, that if any of our members would have been found to have done it, they would be banned from our site immidatelyJun 09 02:29
balzacso I don't joke about itJun 09 02:29
ViperChiefWe do not condone illegal activitiesJun 09 02:29
Sir_SaneWe laugh about them, but don't support them inherently.Jun 09 02:29
ViperChiefFirst, nobody gave you death threatsJun 09 02:29
balzacwhile it's true I'm willing to fight people if they directly confront me in person with insults and I feel menaced, I don't make death threats.Jun 09 02:29
Sir_SaneWe said you deserved it, maybe.Jun 09 02:29
balzacnor do I tolerate them.Jun 09 02:29
mtnd3wViperChief: we = ?Jun 09 02:29
Sir_SaneBut we never said that we'd do that.Jun 09 02:29
balzacheheJun 09 02:29
balzacindeedJun 09 02:29
balzacit's what's his name and then Sir_SaneJun 09 02:30
x33bIf your whining and being a pussy, you probably did deserve to have your site taken down. Lesson? Don't be a pussyJun 09 02:30
balzactwo of you, three instances of inciteful languageJun 09 02:30
ViperChiefI'm sorry. I can't follow your logic. I can't figure out what the hell youre talking aboutJun 09 02:30
Sir_SaneOh my!Jun 09 02:30
x33bsucks for the people using the same hosting providerJun 09 02:30
DaemonFCMicrosoft is incapable of making anyone use IE or WMP even though they bundle them into Windows with no way of uninstalling themJun 09 02:30
Sir_SaneFreedom of Speech!Jun 09 02:30
Sir_SaneWhatever shall we do?!Jun 09 02:30
Sir_SaneNOT OPINIONS?!Jun 09 02:30
Sir_SaneGAAAAAH!Jun 09 02:30
DaemonFCI doubt they'll get .Net accepted by real programmersJun 09 02:30
balzacSir_Sane: incitement to murder is not protected speech.Jun 09 02:30
ViperChiefSir_Sane: Shut up, crackerJun 09 02:30
x33bYou can uninstall ie7 and ie8....Jun 09 02:30
Sir_Sanebalzac: But saying that someone deserved to die is an opinion, and is protected.Jun 09 02:31
balzacyour freedom ends when your inciteful language infringes on my pursuit of _life_ liberty and happinessJun 09 02:31
x33byou can even remove IE6 from WinXP, but I wouldn't recommend itJun 09 02:31
DaemonFCif you want to break Windows and any program that uses the render engineJun 09 02:31
DaemonFCand Windows UpdateJun 09 02:31
DaemonFCand Service Pack installersJun 09 02:31
ViperChief.Net is an ECMA standard. It has been accepted by "real" programmers. Deal with itJun 09 02:31
balzacyou ought to study the constitution and the precedents regarding incitement languageJun 09 02:31
splosioni'd like some racist death threats. I'm jewish too, so that should help. Fire away guysJun 09 02:31
balzacSir_Sane: no, it is not necessarily protected.Jun 09 02:31
ViperChiefbalzac: no, it doesn'tJun 09 02:31
mtnd3wECMA = Is hardily a standardJun 09 02:31
Sir_SaneHate speech is covered under the First Amendment, as in incitement and opinion.Jun 09 02:31
ViperChiefI like Jews.Jun 09 02:31
Sir_SaneI hate them personally.Jun 09 02:31
Sir_SaneBut.Jun 09 02:31
Sir_SaneDoesn't mean I can't be a friend of one.Jun 09 02:32
x33bHey, if Nazi's are allowed to demonstrate, then I don't see a problemJun 09 02:32
balzacA pattern of asserting that someone deserves to die by an illegal act of violence can get you in trouble.Jun 09 02:32
splosionhahaJun 09 02:32
Sir_SaneStating that someone deserves to die is not illegal.Jun 09 02:32
ViperChiefI just don't like crackersJun 09 02:32
balzacx33b: as a matter of fact, I disagree with that idea from the ACLU.Jun 09 02:32
Sir_SaneI don't like black people.Jun 09 02:32
ViperChiefFuck you, Sir_SaneJun 09 02:32
DaemonFCbalzac: Chuck Norris and Delta Force should suffocate you with afterbirthJun 09 02:32
DaemonFCthere you goJun 09 02:32
x33bBalzac: you can disagree all you want, but the courts say otherwiseJun 09 02:32
balzacNazi's aren't allowed to march in AustriaJun 09 02:32
ViperChiefGo drive into a brick wallJun 09 02:32
mib_esnwffI don't like racists. :PJun 09 02:32
DaemonFCreport me to the president or somethingJun 09 02:32
balzacDaemonFC: why the fascination with my death?Jun 09 02:33
Sir_SaneSome of my best friends are racists, some art black, some are Jews.Jun 09 02:33
balzacI remember you had a problem beforeJun 09 02:33
splosionthe ECMA standard is great and all that, but I think a lot of people are wary of mono because of the bizarre "we won't sue you lol" agreement itself.Jun 09 02:33
mtnd3wSo how much do you guys get paid for promoting Mono & .Net?Jun 09 02:33
ViperChiefbalzac: do you see what I just did. I just told Sir_Sane to drive into a wall, yet he doesn't cry like youJun 09 02:33
Sir_SaneGasp.Jun 09 02:33
Sir_SaneOh noes! I'm suing!Jun 09 02:33
ViperChieflolJun 09 02:33
balzacViperChief: context. you're friends.Jun 09 02:33
balzacDaemonFC: who are you?Jun 09 02:33
ViperChiefI'm not friends of anyone.Jun 09 02:33
ViperChiefExcept your momJun 09 02:33
Sir_SaneHee!Jun 09 02:33
ViperChiefWell, no, that's all businessJun 09 02:33
splosionand why how microsoft and novell are so secretive of their "won't sue lol" pact. why so secretive? If they just came out and said "here's the deal folks", a lot of people wouldn't care about the mono issue anymoreJun 09 02:33
ViperChiefBTW, she owes me moneyJun 09 02:33
Sir_SaneShe was sooo disappointed when she gave birth to balzac.Jun 09 02:34
mib_esnwffAfter the whole TomTom incident, I'm not sure that Mono can be trusted.Jun 09 02:34
ViperChieflolJun 09 02:34 09 02:34
Sir_SaneA good site!Jun 09 02:34
ViperChiefWow, I'm impressed, you figured out a websiteJun 09 02:34
balzacracist slurs and death threatsJun 09 02:34
ViperChiefI'm so proud of you.Jun 09 02:34
DaemonFCIf TomTom thought they could win, they'd have fought itJun 09 02:34
x33bwhat does mono have to do with fat16/fat32 violations?Jun 09 02:34
mtnd3wWhere are the moderators on this channel...Jun 09 02:34
balzacalso proprietary softwareJun 09 02:34
DaemonFCthey paid because it was cheaper than losing in courtJun 09 02:34
mtnd3wI wouldn've kicked these trolls out ages ago...Jun 09 02:34
balzacWhat's your software again?Jun 09 02:34
Sir_SaneGNU/HURDJun 09 02:35
Sir_Sane=PJun 09 02:35
ViperChiefbalzac: are you on a loopJun 09 02:35
balzac 09 02:35
x33bI haven't trolled you yet. Trust me i'm looking for a way to do itJun 09 02:35
ViperChiefYou just repeating the same thing over and overJun 09 02:35
DaemonFCGNU/HURD booting off CoreBoot?Jun 09 02:35
Sir_SaneYup!Jun 09 02:35
balzacyou wouldn't happen to be distributors of that software, would you?>Jun 09 02:35
DaemonFCthat's the only way to not be the next Hitler you know?Jun 09 02:35
splosiongodwin'dJun 09 02:35
Sir_SaneGodwin's LawJun 09 02:35
DaemonFChad toJun 09 02:35
Sir_SaneHa.Jun 09 02:35
DaemonFCI love the GNU/Linux spam, like they think they deserve 50% of the credit for about 10% of the OSJun 09 02:36
Sir_SaneThat's why I became an FSF advocate.Jun 09 02:36
ViperChiefDaemonFC: Who are you referring to? Who is "they?"Jun 09 02:37
DaemonFCit shows you where the FSF is coming from, they know they're not all that importantJun 09 02:37
DaemonFC90% of a Linux OS does not depend on themJun 09 02:37
DaemonFCthe GNU/Linux marketing effort is them trying to stay releventJun 09 02:37
ViperChiefAre you on crack?Jun 09 02:37
Sir_Sane,557.0.htmlJun 09 02:37
x33bGNU/Linux is retarded. A ford is a ford even though there is a dodge steering wheel, a tremec shifter...Jun 09 02:37
ViperChiefWithout GNU, Linux would be absolutely nothingJun 09 02:37
DaemonFCLinux has forked the GNU compiler, libraries, and utilities and maintained them for yearsJun 09 02:37
DaemonFCbefore going back to the GNU versionsJun 09 02:38
DaemonFCso Linux would go on if GNU disappearedJun 09 02:38
ViperChiefThe same way that without Linux, GNU would be nothingJun 09 02:38
x33bGNU was nothing without linux, there only something because of itJun 09 02:38
DaemonFCno, GNU is not really as important as most of the other bits, they could be forked and maintained if GNU disappearedJun 09 02:38
balzacSir_Sane: you like to use racial slursJun 09 02:38
ViperChiefBut, if GNU had never been there, where would Linux be? Nowhere. By the time Torvalds figured something out, 386BSD would be out and that's what he would useJun 09 02:38
x33bWhich is probably why stallman is very adamant about it being GNU/linuxJun 09 02:38
Sir_SaneMy own talk on GNU/HURD: 09 02:38
Sir_Sanebalzac: Yes, I love it because I can do it freely in the US.Jun 09 02:39
DaemonFCViperChief: Then FreeBSD would be popular?Jun 09 02:39
DaemonFCIt wouldn't really matterJun 09 02:39
balzacyeah, but you can't make incitements to deadly violence against specific individualsJun 09 02:39
ViperChiefI think so. Torvalds even said, himself, that if he knew about 386BSD, Linux probably never would've happenedJun 09 02:39
balzacnot legallyJun 09 02:39
ViperChiefbalzac: you are an idiotJun 09 02:39
balzacespecially while you hide behind your pseudonymJun 09 02:39
splosionViperChief: correct, Linus said that a few timesJun 09 02:39
ViperChiefSeriously, you're stuck in a fucking loopJun 09 02:39
Sir_Sanebalzac: You ARE an idiot.Jun 09 02:39
DaemonFCLinux only caught on because AT&T sued the 386 BSD people in the early 90sJun 09 02:39
x33bwow, balzac, conversation already shifted, way not to keep upJun 09 02:39
DaemonFCotherwise Linux would never have gotten popularJun 09 02:40
ViperChiefand, people can say whatever the fuck they wantJun 09 02:40
mib_esnwffHow many years has HURD been in development?  Is there any chance of it even coming out?Jun 09 02:40
x33bno, there is no chanceJun 09 02:40
mib_esnwffOr it is like Duke Nukem Forever?Jun 09 02:40
Sir_Sanemib_esnwff: Yes, it's coming alongJun 09 02:40
x33bHurd was duke nukem forever, gone!Jun 09 02:40
Sir_Sanemib_esnwff: There's a new microkernel project for it by Neal Walfield, check out my video linkJun 09 02:40
DaemonFCso that was a point where history could have gone differently and free software would be free of GNU spam and political agendaJun 09 02:40
ViperChiefWell, there was more to Linux's success then AT&T's retardationJun 09 02:40
Sir_Sane 09 02:40
balzacwow, look at your profile, Sir_SaneJun 09 02:41
mib_esnwffyeah, but who will care once hurd does come out?Jun 09 02:41
ViperChiefBut, it certainly helped. People wanted to have fun with something. Linux was thereJun 09 02:41
Sir_Sanebalzac: which one?Jun 09 02:41
DaemonFCno, Linux was only an option because it wasn't being suedJun 09 02:41
ViperChiefHurd will never come outJun 09 02:41
balzacit says "# There's 52 ways to murder anyone..."Jun 09 02:41
DaemonFCBSD was far more advanced in 1992Jun 09 02:41
Sir_Sanebalzac: That's a Misfits song.Jun 09 02:41
DaemonFCobviouslyJun 09 02:41
balzac# Posts: 470Jun 09 02:41
ViperChiefbalzac: ZOMG really? Oh god, that's horribleJun 09 02:41
Sir_SaneYou know, Michale Graves, second leader of the Misfits after Danzig left?Jun 09 02:41
ViperChiefThere are songs that talk about killing people. Is that inciteful? No. It's fucking music and them just venting and expressing emotionJun 09 02:41
ViperChiefDumbassJun 09 02:41
Sir_SaneLimpdick.Jun 09 02:41
x33baccording to spike tv, there are 1000 ways to die.Jun 09 02:42
mib_esnwffstuff that sits in development for years and years and years tends to either turn out awesome or terrible when it finally releases.Jun 09 02:42
balzac Niggers.Jun 09 02:42
balzac« on: May 29, 2009, 04:37:29 am »Jun 09 02:42
balzacI can't stand them. I just can't.Jun 09 02:42
mib_esnwffCases in point: Half-Life 2, and Vista.Jun 09 02:42
ViperChiefYou can'tJun 09 02:42
ViperChiefThat's fucked up.Jun 09 02:42
balzac  Author  Topic: Niggers.  (Read 125 times)Jun 09 02:42
ViperChiefWell, fuck you, too WhiteyJun 09 02:42
balzac# There's 52 ways to murder anyone...Jun 09 02:42
balzacThat's "Sir_Sane"Jun 09 02:42
Sir_Sanebalzac: That's my sig again, it's the Misfits song.Jun 09 02:42
ViperChiefOh, stuck in a loop, I seeJun 09 02:42
balzacSounds pretty menacing and unstable to me.Jun 09 02:42
ViperChiefI don't see his name on your quoteJun 09 02:42
Sir_SaneThe avatar is Michale Graves performing on SNL.Jun 09 02:42
ViperChiefAs far as I can see, you said thatJun 09 02:42
balzaca song doesn't make it friendlyJun 09 02:42
DaemonFCbalzac: There's the Objective and Reasonable Listener test that determines if inciteful speech is illegal or notJun 09 02:43
splosionI hate kike jews. They should all die. Hitler had the right idea.Jun 09 02:43
splosionsee when said by a Jew it's ironicJun 09 02:43
Sir_SaneGASP.Jun 09 02:43
balzacyou guys have an ugly scene happening, and it's gotten worse since the last time I notice it.Jun 09 02:43
ViperChieflolJun 09 02:43
Sir_SaneOh.Jun 09 02:43
Sir_SanePHWEJun 09 02:43
DaemonFCso if you think you can convince 12 reasonable jurors that anyone wanted to kill youJun 09 02:43
Sir_Sane*PHEWJun 09 02:43
DaemonFCthen knock yourself outJun 09 02:43
ViperChiefIt's kind of like what Mr. Garrison said on South ParkJun 09 02:43
x33bMusic is protected speech because it reprents peoples beliefsJun 09 02:43
splosionI'd freaking ace being black. I'd go round calling everybody a nigger *all the time*Jun 09 02:43
ViperChiefYou can say that shit if you are oneJun 09 02:43
x33brepresents*Jun 09 02:43
ViperChiefso, for instance balzac could sing the "Shitty Fag" songJun 09 02:43
mib_esnwffIt's still distasteful, even then.Jun 09 02:43
Sir_SaneHee!Jun 09 02:43
mtnd3wYou watch south parkJun 09 02:43
mtnd3wthat explains itJun 09 02:43
splosions/I'd/it'dJun 09 02:43
Sir_SaneAll the time.Jun 09 02:43
ViperChiefSometimesJun 09 02:43
balzac01:48 < DaemonFC> balzac: Chuck Norris and Delta Force should suffocate you with afterbirthJun 09 02:43
Sir_Sanebalzac: You can't be serious.Jun 09 02:44
ViperChieflolJun 09 02:44
balzacDaemonFC: I first took issue with you a while agoJun 09 02:44
balzacI don't remember what it wasJun 09 02:44
ViperChiefThat's actually pretty fucking funnyJun 09 02:44
Sir_SaneHas balzac never heard a Chuck Norris joke?Jun 09 02:44
mtnd3wchuck norrisJun 09 02:44
balzacbut you said something very harsh, I cant remember about whomJun 09 02:44
mtnd3wis a racist assholeJun 09 02:44
mtnd3whe's a dead memeJun 09 02:44
Sir_SaneBut he's free to be a racist.Jun 09 02:44
balzacbut I called you out then for hiding behind your pseudonym and attacking public namesJun 09 02:44
DaemonFCx33b: It depends. If I sing "X is a piece of shit, I'm going to go over to his house and shoot him" and the jury finds that he would have had good reason to take me seriouslyJun 09 02:44
ViperChiefTell, you what, balzac. You should probably stop using the computer until you grow up and can take people disliking you and saying mean tihngs.Jun 09 02:44
DaemonFCit becomes illegalJun 09 02:44
ViperChiefBecause, if you can't, you're going to have a really hard fucking lifeJun 09 02:44
Sir_SaneDon't drop out of school.Jun 09 02:45
DaemonFCor if I sing "X is a piece of shit, everyone listening to this CD should go kill him"Jun 09 02:45
ViperChiefOn a daily basis, I'm told to kill myself or told to die or some variation therof.Jun 09 02:45
x33bdaemonFC: Rap music is full of those type of "threats" yet it is protected speech.Jun 09 02:45
balzac,1138.0.htmlJun 09 02:45
DaemonFCnot alwaysJun 09 02:45
ViperChief+1Jun 09 02:45
balzacHere we have a picture of a kidJun 09 02:45
mtnd3wbecause rap makes moneyJun 09 02:45
mtnd3wthrough white peopleJun 09 02:45
balzacon the same page under the topic "Niggers", a post by Sir_SaneJun 09 02:45
DaemonFCbut diffuclty in proving that the person had a right to feel threatened keeps it more or less legalJun 09 02:45
mtnd3wwho want to be gangstersJun 09 02:45
x33bDaemonFC: Are you a lawyer?Jun 09 02:46
balzacYou guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
ViperChiefbalzac: Captain Obvious, aren't you?Jun 09 02:46
DaemonFCthis has gone to the supreme court beforeJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_Sane<balzac> You guys are begging for me to pull your pointy hoods offJun 09 02:46
Sir_SaneOh shit.Jun 09 02:46
DaemonFCover subliminal messages in a CD telling people to go kill someoneJun 09 02:46
Sir_SaneI misread that.Jun 09 02:46
Sir_SaneI thought it said "heads"Jun 09 02:46
x33bIf you are not a lawyer, Then STFU about what keeps it legal.Jun 09 02:46
ViperChiefI loe the First AmendmentJun 09 02:46
ViperChiefIt's the one where I can call balzac a fucking dumbassJun 09 02:46
ViperChief*loveJun 09 02:46
mtnd3wx33b you shut the fuck upJun 09 02:47
ViperChiefAnd there's not a damn thing he can do about itJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCthe first amendment does not give you the right to say anything, unrestrainedJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCit just doesn'tJun 09 02:47
ViperChiefYes, it doesJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCnoJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCit doesn'tJun 09 02:47
Sir_SaneGive an example, then.Jun 09 02:47
ViperChiefFreedom of Speech shall not be infringed, dumbassJun 09 02:47
mib_esnwffprofanity, racism and irc flooding.  Nice representation, there.Jun 09 02:47
mtnd3wtry the First Amendment on a copJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCshouting FIRE!!! in a movie theaterJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCis not protected speechJun 09 02:47
Sir_SaneIt is.Jun 09 02:47
DaemonFCnoJun 09 02:47
DaemonFCit is notJun 09 02:47
Sir_SaneYes, it is.Jun 09 02:47
balzacracism is legal, but the combination of racism and incitement to violence is crossing into illegal territoryJun 09 02:47
ViperChiefActually, it is freedom of speechJun 09 02:48
splosionIANAL, but as I understand it, you can yell "fire" in a crowded theatre and end up causing the deaths of people. Sure you can say it. You'll get prosecuted for reasons other than speaking your mind, though.Jun 09 02:48
Sir_SaneYou know balzac, this is getting tiresome.Jun 09 02:48
balzacSir_Sane: then go awayJun 09 02:48
x33bFreedome of speech is revoked when it can be proved without a doubt that it has endangered the lives of another person, Or when it comes to National SecurityJun 09 02:48
x33bthats itJun 09 02:48
ViperChiefYou won't get arrested for saying FIRE, you'll get arrested for other shit (i.e. creating panic or a disturbance)Jun 09 02:48
Sir_Sanebalzac: You first. Improve your community before I can contribute.Jun 09 02:48
ViperChiefSir_Sane never incited anyone to be violent towards blacks. He just said he hated niggers.Jun 09 02:48
DaemonFCHolmes, writing for a unanimous majority, ruled that it was illegal to distribute flyers opposing the draft during World War I. Holmes argued this abridgment of free speech was permissible because it presented a "clear and present danger" to the government's recruitment efforts for the war. Holmes wrote:Jun 09 02:49
DaemonFCThe most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.Jun 09 02:49
DaemonFC 09 02:49
balzacTopic: Niggers.  (Read 125 times) « on: May 29, 2009, 04:37:29 am » I can't stand them. I just can't. - Sir SaneJun 09 02:49
x33bthanks for repeating what i saidJun 09 02:49
Sir_SaneDaemonFC: As to your Holmes case, we in the US have that right protected under "Protest"Jun 09 02:49
balzac,1138.0.htmlJun 09 02:49
balzacDon't lecture, Sir_SaneJun 09 02:49
Sir_SaneYou're one to talk.Jun 09 02:49
x33bbalzac, can't say anyting else but, Topic Niggers..Jun 09 02:49
balzacyou don't even have the least bit of credibility hereJun 09 02:50
mtnd3wbalzac, they're from Middle AmericaJun 09 02:50
DaemonFCSir_Sane: You have no rightsJun 09 02:50
Sir_SaneNeither do you.Jun 09 02:50
ViperChiefWow, balzac, your are so fucking stupid, that I can feel my brain melting as you repeat the same shit over and over and overJun 09 02:50
mtnd3wwhat do you expect?Jun 09 02:50
DaemonFCgo protest the RNC and see what I meanJun 09 02:50
ViperChiefSERIOUS BUSINESSJun 09 02:50
Sir_SaneFuck republicans.Jun 09 02:50
DaemonFCSWAT teams and "protest zones"Jun 09 02:50
balzacI've protested the RNC beforeJun 09 02:50
x33bI can protest the RNC all I want, but protest has to be non threatening and peacefull.Jun 09 02:50
balzacNearly got caught in orange netsJun 09 02:50
DaemonFCand police that are just looking for a reason to beat peopleJun 09 02:50
ViperChiefbalzac: Again, he never incited violence. Just said he hated them, which he is entitled to do and feelJun 09 02:50
ViperChiefThat's for everyone's safety.Jun 09 02:51
x33bIf your being a jackass, then yeah, they are going to arrest you while you protestJun 09 02:51
balzacViperChief: his racism lends context to his endorsement of the incitement to violence from the other guyJun 09 02:51
DaemonFCnoJun 09 02:51
ViperChiefNo, it really doesn'tJun 09 02:51
DaemonFCthe police just claim someone threw a rock at themJun 09 02:51
Sir_Sanebalzac: You're terrible at connecting dots.Jun 09 02:51
DaemonFCand open fire with M-16sJun 09 02:51
ViperChiefAnd you get some police like thatJun 09 02:51
DaemonFClike at Kent State UniversityJun 09 02:51
DaemonFCmurder dozens of unarmed peopleJun 09 02:51
ViperChiefThere are good people and bad people in every professionJun 09 02:51
balzacalso, in a racist thread about hating a specific ethnic group, refered to by a racial slur, a picture of a child of that ethnicity is posted.Jun 09 02:51
balzacvery bad tasteJun 09 02:51 09 02:51
Sir_Sanebalzac, go fuck yourself.Jun 09 02:52
ViperChiefYes, and the child was pointing out that his statement was racist.Jun 09 02:52
ViperChiefWhat's your point?Jun 09 02:52
Sir_SaneTHAT'S WACIST!Jun 09 02:52
splosion/TOPIC #boycottnovell niggers niggers niggersJun 09 02:52
x33bNot in the US they don't. The police don't have M-16's by the way. AR-15, mp5 are primary swat weaponsJun 09 02:52
ViperChieflolJun 09 02:52
splosionwhoops wrong windowJun 09 02:52
DaemonFC 09 02:52
mtnd3wlinsux is bunch of loser bsd 4chan wanna be, newfagsJun 09 02:52
DaemonFCthat's your so-called freedomJun 09 02:52
DaemonFCthe US is bullshitJun 09 02:52
x33bcanada is bullshitJun 09 02:52
balzacThe admin says he's over 33 years of ageJun 09 02:52
Sir_SaneThe world is bullshit.Jun 09 02:52
ViperChiefOkay, I have no idea what your problem is DaemonJun 09 02:52
balzache can't hide behind some infantile teen websiteJun 09 02:52
ViperChiefDaemonFC: Go fuck yourselfJun 09 02:52
balzacthis is very explicitly and directly racistJun 09 02:52
DaemonFCthere's no such thing as rights in the USJun 09 02:52
Sir_SaneBut he's free to hide behind Linsux.orgJun 09 02:53
DaemonFCyou are guaranteed nothingJun 09 02:53
ViperChiefbalzac: Stop being so fucking stupidJun 09 02:53
mtnd3wViperChief: Free-DUMBJun 09 02:53
x33byes there are rights, you have them even if you aren't from the US. Funny how it works?Jun 09 02:53
DaemonFC 09 02:53
DaemonFCAmericans have no rightsJun 09 02:53
Sir_SaneYou know what, fuck it. Balzac can't take a stand for anything at all, and most people here seem brainwashed.Jun 09 02:53
DaemonFCjust like the rest of the worldJun 09 02:53
ViperChiefDaemonFC: I have visited many countries. The US is a hell of a lot better then the alternatives I've been toJun 09 02:53
Sir_SaneI'm outta this dump, can't wait to see the log tomorrow.Jun 09 02:53
DaemonFCViperChief: BullshitJun 09 02:53
mtnd3wDaemonFC: Correction Americans "think" they have rights.Jun 09 02:53
DaemonFCthe government does what it wantsJun 09 02:53
ViperChiefBullshit?Jun 09 02:53
DaemonFCand gets away with it allJun 09 02:53
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x33bSomething that happened in the 40s and 50s? Seriously? Remember Nazi germany? That's not how germans are now, now is it?Jun 09 02:54
ViperChiefGive me a gov't that doesn't do what they want and get away with it.Jun 09 02:54
DaemonFCBush wiped his ass with what was left of the Bill of RightsJun 09 02:54
ViperChiefx33b: +1Jun 09 02:54
x33bWant no rights? Go to North korea, Go to China, Go to Cuba. Thinking about protesting? Your executedJun 09 02:54
mtnd3wViperChief: That's a stupid argumentJun 09 02:54
DaemonFCnow the government claims it has the right to do anything it wantsJun 09 02:54
mtnd3wViperChief: You can make that argument for anything.Jun 09 02:55
DaemonFCthey can arrest you without causeJun 09 02:55
DaemonFCand hold you indefinitelyJun 09 02:55
DaemonFCand even torture youJun 09 02:55
DaemonFChow is that better than anywhere else?Jun 09 02:55
DaemonFCcause they haven't done it to YOU?Jun 09 02:55
ViperChiefOkay, I have to get ready for work and I feel my brain melting arguing with all of you.Jun 09 02:55
ViperChiefHave a good night and go fuck yourselfs.Jun 09 02:55
Sir_SaneBye.Jun 09 02:55
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mtnd3wlolJun 09 02:55
mtnd3wintelligenceJun 09 02:55
mtnd3w...makes trolls quitJun 09 02:56
x33bThe US is one of the few countries where a person of poor social standing can move to high class. Very few countries allow this. That and healthcare make it worth living here.Jun 09 02:56
balzacSimple Machines ForumsJun 09 02:56
DaemonFCbullshitJun 09 02:56
DaemonFCthe US is structured to keep the poor as a slave casteJun 09 02:56
mtnd3wx33b: HealthcareJun 09 02:56
DaemonFCor off the books totallyJun 09 02:56
mtnd3wx33b: Are you kidding me?Jun 09 02:56
balzacI smell some collusion hereJun 09 02:56
mtnd3wx33b: You are a retarded redneckJun 09 02:56
x33bI lived in London, healthcare is worse there then hereJun 09 02:56
DaemonFChere you don't have anythingJun 09 02:57
mtnd3wx33b: Worse because people are covered?Jun 09 02:57
DaemonFCin  the US, you have no healthcareJun 09 02:57
x33bIreland is even worse, but ireland is kinda screwed in generalJun 09 02:57
DaemonFCit's all whatever you can get from your jobJun 09 02:57
DaemonFCwhich usually is a jokeJun 09 02:57
balzacamusingJun 09 02:57
DaemonFCor you can spend four hundred dollars a month on your own policyJun 09 02:57
x33bI can go to any physician i want, any specialist i want, and if i can pay for it get the treatment. That works for meJun 09 02:57
DaemonFCif you're self-employedJun 09 02:57
mtnd3wx33b: Majority of of American go bankrupt because of hospital bills.Jun 09 02:57
splosionx33b: healthcare can be hit and miss in the UK, but I broke my leg whilst between jobs and without insurance once. I paid exactly zero for being seen to in the hospital. In fact they even gave me money for the taxi to take me back home. NiceJun 09 02:58
x33bMajority of hospital bills go unpaidJun 09 02:58
DaemonFCx33b is saying that the US healthcare system is fine because he's not sufferingJun 09 02:58
DaemonFCyetJun 09 02:58
mtnd3wx33b: Thats because there is functional healthcare systemJun 09 02:58
DaemonFCagain, excusing a piss poor system because he is personally not affected at the momentJun 09 02:58
x33bI don't have insurance atmJun 09 02:58
balzacFiring off an email threatening litigation and throwing around insults will only galvanize them against you.Jun 09 02:58
mtnd3wx33b: Why do you think Obama is pushing so hard for healthcare reformJun 09 02:58
x33bthough it's not an issueJun 09 02:58
balzacsnotty condescending "advice" from SMF FAQJun 09 02:59
x33bI don't agree with Obama on healthcareJun 09 02:59
balzacI'm guessing a lot of assholes like to use Simple Machine ForumJun 09 02:59
mtnd3wx33b: If you get a fatal illness you'll see how expensive it is, just find out what the illness is.Jun 09 02:59
DaemonFCI voted for him, he wonJun 09 02:59
DaemonFCso eat shitJun 09 02:59
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 02:59
splosionx33b: and don't forget, in the UK we have both public and private hospitals. if you have health insurance, you can go right ahead and get the more expensive shit. it's not an either/or argumentJun 09 02:59
DaemonFCenough people got sick of the Rethuglicans, got together, and threw the sons of bitches outJun 09 02:59
DaemonFCshame it took so longJun 09 02:59
x33bI don't feel my tax dollars should pay for everyone to get healthcare. If doctors don't have to compete what makes doctors work to be better?Jun 09 02:59
DaemonFCand so much damage had been doneJun 09 03:00
DaemonFCbut it could have been worseJun 09 03:00
DaemonFCif McPalin got inJun 09 03:00
mtnd3wx33b: Your tax dollars pays for a lot of crap that you can't control.Jun 09 03:00
splosionthe average wage for doctors in the uk is about $120,000Jun 09 03:00
mtnd3wx33b: Far worse things actually.Jun 09 03:00
x33bDuh, the auto industry pisses me off to no endJun 09 03:00
DaemonFCx33b: Just killing arabsJun 09 03:00
DaemonFCyou're happy just killing arabs with your tax moneyJun 09 03:00
DaemonFCeven though that could have done something usefulJun 09 03:01
DaemonFCfucking RepublicansJun 09 03:01
mtnd3wx33b: You're a typical backward republicanJun 09 03:01
x33bNo i'm not, i'm pissed because were borrowing money from china, driving down our economy. Was more bullshit from the governmentJun 09 03:01
DaemonFCthey should just give Texas back to Mexico so we never have to deal with a shitty president againJun 09 03:01
balzacI'm spoke up against violent language before against violent language directed at Steve Ballmer and Bill GatesJun 09 03:01
x33bBackward republican? no i just own a house and know what screws meJun 09 03:01
balzacfrom anonymous guys who verbally "crapped" in Roy's chatroomJun 09 03:02
splosionin fact, there are many people in government and in business who would like to abolish the free healthcare system in the UK. but the people would revolt if they did. no one has ever even tried to remove it. no one in power wants to touch it. it's just too important to peopleJun 09 03:02
DaemonFCbalzac: May a deorbited satellite fall on your house and kill you and the baby JesusJun 09 03:02
DaemonFC:PJun 09 03:02
DaemonFCgo on, report me to the president, FBI, IRSJun 09 03:02
DaemonFCwhateverJun 09 03:02
x33bwant to know whats bullshit? their is a hospital in New York, that has a patent on the human gnome(sp?) No one can work on it without permission. Thats fucked upJun 09 03:03
DaemonFCx33b: RepublicansJun 09 03:03
DaemonFCthey make this stuff legalJun 09 03:03
x33bNo, that's a borked patent systemJun 09 03:03
DaemonFCthen you complain cause we want healthcare instead of bombinb brown peopleJun 09 03:03
DaemonFC*bombingJun 09 03:03
balzacDaemonFC: I don't appreciate your fantasizing about my deathJun 09 03:04
balzacfrom behind your pseudonymJun 09 03:04
x33bWhen did i complain about bombing brown peopleJun 09 03:04
DaemonFCyou wouldn't cause you want to pay taxes to bomb brown peopleJun 09 03:04
balzacthat's a step less direct than the guy, but I don't like it.Jun 09 03:04
x33bIraq was a joke, and so was the rest of the middle east. It's waste of time to even try to do anything thereJun 09 03:04
DaemonFCcause that's what your party did with your retirement fundJun 09 03:05
DaemonFCHAHJun 09 03:05
DaemonFCthey spent over a BILLION DOLLARS of Social Security bombing brown peopleJun 09 03:05
DaemonFCbut according to you the problems are guns gods and gaysJun 09 03:05
x33bMy retirment fund? mine is invested in stocks and bonds and my own IRA. Mine is going no whereJun 09 03:05
splosionIrish Republican Army? ouchJun 09 03:05
splosionI want my own IRA tooJun 09 03:06
DaemonFCthe stock crash put a nice dent in itJun 09 03:06
DaemonFCwhere the fuck did you think that came from?Jun 09 03:06
DaemonFCRepublican greedJun 09 03:06
x33bNo that came from banks being irresponsibleJun 09 03:06
DaemonFCnoJun 09 03:06
DaemonFCit came from the Republicans stripping regulationsJun 09 03:06
DaemonFCthat were designed to prevent another Great DepressionJun 09 03:07
x33bWhy would a bank grant a 5 year ARM loan on a 500k mortgage when the person has no way to pay it back? The bank is setup to fail, but the broker makes a quick buck.Jun 09 03:07
splosionDaemonFC: don't fall prey to partisan politics. the whole world is fucked because the bankers screwed us over and nobody in power did anything to stop it. The republicans aren't the only guilty party here. they all are equally to blame, leaders the world over. turns out they're all a bunch of crooksJun 09 03:07
DaemonFCThere is no such thing as a good RepublcanJun 09 03:08
DaemonFCsome are just less wicked than othersJun 09 03:08
x33b....Jun 09 03:08
splosionthat's how people campaign in the UK, actually. "We're probably less corrupt than the last guys were!!"Jun 09 03:08
x33bWhen you get older, you'll realize that both parties are pretty screwed upJun 09 03:09
DaemonFChehJun 09 03:09
x33bthe government is not out to help anyone, it just pushes it's on agendaJun 09 03:09
x33bon-ownJun 09 03:09
DaemonFCoverall I think 90% of the corruptin belongs on the Republican sideJun 09 03:09
DaemonFC*corruptionJun 09 03:09
x33bsure..Jun 09 03:09
DaemonFCseriouslyJun 09 03:09
mtnd3wthe Republican & DemocratsJun 09 03:10
x33bGo to chicago, democrats run things, and it's run by the organized crimeJun 09 03:10
mtnd3ware the same partyJun 09 03:10
grubby3L@CX320@mU@Jun 09 03:10
DaemonFCtheir social policies are xenophobic, homophobic, racist, big government, state policing of people's bedroomsJun 09 03:10
grubbyfuckJun 09 03:10
DaemonFCtell me why you get off on supporting that?Jun 09 03:10
x33bactually, organized crime run just about everything there...Jun 09 03:10
grubbystupid line breaksJun 09 03:10
splosionmtnd3w: yupJun 09 03:10
x33bxenophobic? I see blacks and whites and asians in the Republican party...Jun 09 03:11
DaemonFCbullshitJun 09 03:11
x33bHeck, wasn't until the last 10 years, blacks were all hardcore republicansJun 09 03:11
DaemonFCthey move on and always attack the defendelessJun 09 03:11
DaemonFCthat's always how the Republicans workJun 09 03:11
splosiononly the whitest black guys vote republican. any fool knows thatJun 09 03:11
DaemonFCthey move on and attack the smallest percentages of societyJun 09 03:11
x33bwrong, blacks are republicans becaues it was republicans(LINCOLN) that freed themJun 09 03:12
DaemonFCin the 60s it was black people, in the 80s and 90s it was MexicansJun 09 03:12
mtnd3wsplosion: they're called "uncle tom niggers"Jun 09 03:12
DaemonFCnow it's those "damned queers"Jun 09 03:12
DaemonFCfuck them, I don't have to put up with itJun 09 03:12
DaemonFCI will not accept thatJun 09 03:12
DaemonFCit can't be allowedJun 09 03:12
splosionwell that's that thenJun 09 03:12
splosionanyone for some more death threats?Jun 09 03:13
x33btalking politics with teens ftl. Anyway, the amount of ignorance from Daemon is getting boring. If i just start flaming i'm sure i'll get kicked or something, so i'm leavingJun 09 03:13
x33blaterJun 09 03:13
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splosionDaemonFC: here in the UK, by the way, the government is in the midst of falling apart. People are being sacked or having to resign left right and centre, from all of the parties. There is not one party who has come out with a clean sheet. every single lying scumbastard one of them is a crookJun 09 03:15
DaemonFCx33b: I don't accept your narrow and homophobic view of this countryJun 09 03:15
splosiontoo lateJun 09 03:15
DaemonFCAnd I will go to the poll every time exactly because of those like you that seek to steal my human rightsJun 09 03:15
mtnd3wlolJun 09 03:16
mtnd3wanother one lost to intelligenceJun 09 03:16
DaemonFCsplosion: So your politicians have enough of a sense of shame to resign?Jun 09 03:16
DaemonFCstill better than oursJun 09 03:17
splosionmost of them were forced to resign, but yeahJun 09 03:17
mtnd3wshame is an alien concept to american politiciansJun 09 03:17
DaemonFCThe Republicans would have to commit Seppuku to make up for the last 20 yearsJun 09 03:17
splosionquite a lot of politicians here thought they could get away with saying "I didn't do anything wrong" whilst paying back the money they stole at the same time. Kinda hard to spin that angle, reallyJun 09 03:18
splosion"I didn't do anything wrong, and to prove it, I'm paying back all that money I stole from you lol"Jun 09 03:18
DaemonFCtrying to turn it from embezzlement to a "loan" at the 11th hour?Jun 09 03:18
DaemonFCniceJun 09 03:18
splosionso yeah, they were forced to resignJun 09 03:18
mtnd3wthis is amazing, i didn't know defibrillators are now implanted : 09 03:19
splosionone politician stole 80,000 pounds of tax money to build himself a moat. Seriously, he built a fucking moat. How insane is that?Jun 09 03:19
DaemonFChere the Republicans impeach Clinton for getting a blow job, but the Democrats can't impeach Bush for getting us into a war of choice and slughtering thousands innocent peopleJun 09 03:20
DaemonFCthat's how things go in the USAJun 09 03:20
splosionmtnd3w: what laguage is that? sounds germanJun 09 03:20
mtnd3wi'm not sureJun 09 03:21
splosionwell it's all greek to meJun 09 03:21
mtnd3wbut around 0:15 you can see the defibrillator workingJun 09 03:21
DaemonFCDas Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlightsJun 09 03:21
DaemonFC:PJun 09 03:21
mtnd3wDaemonFC: Pussycrats always push Republican agendas in subtile mannerJun 09 03:22
splosionshit. here you go. This is where one of the UK politicans lives: 09 03:22
splosionhe lives in a fucking castle surrounded by a moatJun 09 03:22
splosionthat's so awesomeJun 09 03:23
splosionshame that he stole all our money to pay for it thoughJun 09 03:23
DaemonFCJon Stewart made fun of that guyJun 09 03:23
DaemonFCthat was pretty funnyJun 09 03:23
splosionyoutube link? i'd love to see what you yanks made of it all reallyJun 09 03:24
DaemonFClooking for itJun 09 03:25
DaemonFCit was on TV the other dayJun 09 03:25
splosionhah. url says it allJun 09 03:26
DaemonFCsplosion: 09 03:27
DaemonFCthe video is on that pageJun 09 03:27
splosionthanksJun 09 03:27
DaemonFC"neither party drew attention to the scandal because apparently they were ALL doing it"Jun 09 03:28
DaemonFClmfaoJun 09 03:29
DaemonFCScamalotJun 09 03:29
DaemonFC:PJun 09 03:29
DaemonFCthe REAL WatergateJun 09 03:29
DaemonFCIs he concerned about the Visigoths or the Gauls?Jun 09 03:32
DaemonFC:PJun 09 03:32
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 09 03:35
splosionhahahaJun 09 03:35
splosionhilariousJun 09 03:35
*fewa has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jun 09 03:37
DaemonFCgah, I just pwned myselfJun 09 03:37
DaemonFCI paused Winamp and had to turn the volume up for that videoJun 09 03:37
DaemonFCand when I unpaused it, I just an electric guitar chord in my earsJun 09 03:37
DaemonFC:PJun 09 03:37
splosion 09 03:38
DaemonFCjesusJun 09 03:39
splosionactually no this one is much better 09 03:39
DaemonFCactually if you look on those public sex offenders lists, 99% of them are either 60+ years old\Jun 09 03:41
DaemonFCORJun 09 03:41
DaemonFCjust turned 18 and got busted for banging is 17 year old girlfriendJun 09 03:41
DaemonFCthere's hardly anything in betweenJun 09 03:41
DaemonFC*hisJun 09 03:42
splosionheh hehJun 09 03:42
DaemonFCsociety is pretty quick to brand someone with the scarlet letter for 20 years over screwing someone one month younger than they areJun 09 03:42
splosionayeJun 09 03:43
splosionif you have the patience, you will die laughing with this (45mins) 09 03:44
DaemonFCsomeone was an idiot when they encoded thisJun 09 03:45
*DaemonFC hits the pause button to let it bufferJun 09 03:45
DaemonFCsplosion: I found out why it takes twice as long to post a video on Youtube if you use TheoraJun 09 03:46
DaemonFCThey have to transcode it into MPEG-4 before they wrap it in the flv containerJun 09 03:46
balzac 09 03:46
DaemonFCflv does not accept theora or vorbis contentsJun 09 03:47
DaemonFCI can think of a few reasonsJun 09 03:47
DaemonFCone is that a Theora stream has to be much bigger in filesize for the same quality as MPEG-4Jun 09 03:48
DaemonFCthe other is that you can use HE-AAC for audio in flv, which will have about twice the fidelity at low bitrates vs VorbisJun 09 03:48
DaemonFCso the MPEG-4 lineup are technologically superior for streamingJun 09 03:49
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 03:49
balzacyeah, but Theora has a nice licenseJun 09 03:49
DaemonFCso I can shave 40% of hosting, bandwidth, and streaming requirementsJun 09 03:49
balzacI'll be focusing my development on TheoraJun 09 03:49
DaemonFCby choosing MPEG-4 video + HE-AACJun 09 03:50
balzacYeah, but you're stuck with a proprietary codecJun 09 03:50
DaemonFCso?Jun 09 03:50
balzacI don't want to deal with patents and proprietary licenses.Jun 09 03:50
DaemonFCVorbis has only ever really competed with MP3Jun 09 03:50
DaemonFCthere's no comparison with HE-AACJun 09 03:50
DaemonFCVorbis just flat out gets blown awayJun 09 03:50
balzacI'll have the original, lossless video originals archived and I'll serve theora, ultimateJun 09 03:50
balzacultimatelyJun 09 03:50
balzacYeah, I'm not worried about thatJun 09 03:51
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balzacI'm patient and I'll let the technology be refinedJun 09 03:51
DaemonFCVorbis can't ever be as good as HE-AACJun 09 03:51
balzaccode comes and goes, but the license is the foundationJun 09 03:51
DaemonFCat least not within the next 16 yearsJun 09 03:51
DaemonFCit would be illegal to distribute Borbis with SBRJun 09 03:52
balzacthat's a silly assumptionJun 09 03:52
DaemonFC*VorbisJun 09 03:52
balzacwhy, a software patent?Jun 09 03:52
DaemonFCyupJun 09 03:52
balzacI think patenting math is dumbJun 09 03:52
balzacand it's not going to stand the legal challengesJun 09 03:52
DaemonFCso below 128k, Vorbis gets beaten by HE-AACJun 09 03:52
DaemonFCevery timeJun 09 03:52
balzacsoftware patents are for chumpsJun 09 03:53
balzaci don't agree with patenting ideasJun 09 03:53
DaemonFCit's also possible to use SBR on MP3, but it never made it into the MPEG standardJun 09 03:53
DaemonFCso portable  players won't like itJun 09 03:53
DaemonFC(MP3Pro)Jun 09 03:53
DaemonFCWMA can also use SBRJun 09 03:53
DaemonFCWMA ProJun 09 03:53
balzacDaemonFC: you were obnoxious during that clown-attack from linsux.orgJun 09 03:53
DaemonFCVorbis is like the little Christmas tree nobody lovedJun 09 03:54
balzacwhy would you want to give cover to guys who try to incite violence against specific people?Jun 09 03:54
DaemonFCno real reasonJun 09 03:55
balzacI think I will let this go without seeking a subpoena this timeJun 09 03:55
DaemonFCI like to be ironicJun 09 03:55
DaemonFCseek whatever you want :PJun 09 03:55
balzacbut if they do it again, I'll seek to compel discovery of the registrant's identityJun 09 03:55
balzacwell, it's lame to make a point about "free speech" in a context where another person's rights are being infringed onJun 09 03:56
balzacthat's not the time to make a stand for "free speech"Jun 09 03:56
DaemonFCit's not what you sayJun 09 03:56
DaemonFCit's in what contextJun 09 03:56
balzacthem using inciteful language, ie. saying I deserve to have my head smashed by a tire iron, is infringing on my personal securityJun 09 03:57
balzacsince I don't stay anonymous, it's particularly offensive since they choose to remain anonymousJun 09 03:57
balzacnot to mention the racist content on linsux.orgJun 09 03:57
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balzacas if everyone is being oppressed by so-called "political correctness"Jun 09 03:58
balzacI'm glad I exposed some of their problemsJun 09 03:59
balzac 09 03:59
yuhongWell, even if a laptop gift isn't a true bribe, it is still not a good idea.Jun 09 03:59
balzacthey've attacked schestowitz on, in an organized "astro-turf" campaign of down-rating Roy's content and commentsJun 09 03:59
yuhongFor example, MS can cover bloat by sending high-end laptop.Jun 09 04:00
yuhongFor example, MS can cover bloat by sending high-end laptops.Jun 09 04:00
balzacI read a comment from a guy who said inciteful language about gates and ballmerJun 09 04:01
balzacI confronted him in each case I sawJun 09 04:01
balzacI just don't think people should bring physical violence into softwareJun 09 04:01
balzacof course, that guy went ahead and started calling me names. I simply pointed out I might kick his ass if he said it in person.Jun 09 04:02
balzacwhich is normal, i think.Jun 09 04:02
balzactraditional, even.Jun 09 04:02
yuhongBTW, Joel's blog is quite famous.Jun 09 04:03
balzacbut the hiding behind pseudonyms and threating with a tire-iron - there's nothing traditional about that.Jun 09 04:03
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mtnd3wgnightJun 09 04:22
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balzaclsJun 09 04:27
DaemonFC73 cds encoded thus far :PJun 09 04:33
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splosionhrmm, what one of those linsux chaps was saying on that FSdaily link about BSD makes some sense. I'm sure I saw rms himself once say that in an ideal world, we wouldn't even need a GPL, and that the BSD Licence would do just fine. still all free licences allow developers to develop. it's just how it's distributed that makes a differenceJun 09 05:17
schestowitzThe channel got messed up by k00ksJun 09 05:40
schestowitzNeeds cleanupJun 09 05:40
splosionhow do you mean?Jun 09 05:41
splosionIn other news, the Zune catches up to the rest of the 20th century 09 05:44
schestowitztessier: how do I enable showing directory contents in Apache, e.g. ?Jun 09 05:46
*DaemonFC wonders why Linux types never say anything about MPCJun 09 05:47
DaemonFCit seems to be open sourcedJun 09 05:47
DaemonFCsame style of licensing as VorbisJun 09 05:48
DaemonFCit performs better than Vorbis in most listening testsJun 09 05:48
DaemonFCthere has to be some reason why there's no open source mob behind itJun 09 05:49
splosionDaemonFC: never even heard of it beforeJun 09 05:49
DaemonFC 09 05:49
splosionOh Musepack. OK yeah I know of it. Didn't know the extension then. Never encountered anyJun 09 05:50
DaemonFCaccording to the listening tests, Musepack beats Vorbis at low bitrates til 128k where there's a 4-way tie between WMA, Vorbis, Lame MP3, and AACJun 09 05:50
DaemonFCand there it's still slightly ahead of the restJun 09 05:50
DaemonFCit seems like if you're targeting bitrates above 128k, there's no clear advantage to any codecJun 09 05:51
DaemonFCit's easy to see why everyone is trying to be the best low bitrate encoder, if that's the only place where it really mattersJun 09 05:52
splosionhrmmJun 09 05:52
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DaemonFCI've done my own listening tests at this system just to see where I started noticing a differenceJun 09 05:53
splosionoh well. I encode to vorbis simply because it's the default setting for the apps I use. When I download lossy stuff off the tubes, I just leave it as whatever format in came in, unless I have to strip the DRM or whateverJun 09 05:53
neighborleewell ive never heard of it either and ive been around linux since redhat 5.2..Ive'not been active all that time but still, ive never heard of it eitherJun 09 05:53
DaemonFCit seems like around 64k it goes HE-AAC, LC/AAC, WMA, Ogg Vorbis, Lame MP3, Fruenhofer MP3Jun 09 05:53
DaemonFCto me anywayJun 09 05:53
DaemonFCI would never encode that low thoughJun 09 05:54
DaemonFCI've played around with LAME though, it turns out there's a surprising number of command line arguments that can have drastic impact on the MP3 fileJun 09 05:55
DaemonFCyou can force Lame to act kind of like AAC regarding high frequencies and not bother to waste any bits on themJun 09 05:56
splosionmost of the stuff I have is encoded at around 192. I have to say it feels strange listening to flacs and other lossless things after that. You notice the difference in sound.Jun 09 05:56
DaemonFCthat way it uses more of the bit reservoir on audible rangesJun 09 05:56
DaemonFCsplosion: pass this to LameJun 09 05:57
DaemonFC-S --noreplaygain -V 2 --lowpass 19.7 --vbr-new - %dJun 09 05:57
DaemonFCyou'll get files that are about the same size as 192 CBR, but they'll sound a hell of a lot betterJun 09 05:58
DaemonFCthe encoder will alternate between bitrates as neededJun 09 05:58
DaemonFCand not spend any above 20 KhzJun 09 05:58
DaemonFCI really can't tell any difference between the FLAC and the MP3 fileJun 09 05:59
DaemonFCso you can get great results from LAME< just most frontends are stupidJun 09 05:59
splosionI can't tell which one is better, but I can tell the difference, just aboutJun 09 05:59
splosionI just use ffmpegJun 09 05:59
DaemonFCthat's one of your problems thenJun 09 06:00
splosionwait, are you telling me to re-encode my CBR lossy tracks with that method you just typed?Jun 09 06:00
DaemonFCnoJun 09 06:00
DaemonFCyou'd have to go back to the sourceJun 09 06:00
DaemonFCand encode from thatJun 09 06:00
splosionI haven't bought a CD for more than a yearJun 09 06:00
DaemonFCand those are switches that LAME acceptsJun 09 06:00
DaemonFCI don't know about other encodersJun 09 06:01
DaemonFCas I try to avoid themJun 09 06:01
splosionso I guess I should have said, I used ffmpegJun 09 06:01
DaemonFCiTunes and Windows Media Player have the shittiest MP3 encoders everJun 09 06:01
DaemonFCyou can't get a decent file out of either of themJun 09 06:01
DaemonFCthey both default to the original psychoaccoustic model and they don't support VBRJun 09 06:02
DaemonFCbasically they do everything they can to cripple anything you try to make with themJun 09 06:02
splosionyou can pass LAME arguments to ffmpeg too, if you have a version compiled to use lame, of courseJun 09 06:02
DaemonFCin a typical stream, there will be a few parts that can be represented at really low bitrates, and a few parts that need the full 320, but most can be represented at 160 or 192Jun 09 06:04
DaemonFCthe problem is that if you use 160, you're throwing quality out the windowJun 09 06:04
DaemonFCand if you use 192, you're wasting a lot of bits on nothingJun 09 06:04
DaemonFCand still sacrificing the parts that need higher bitratesJun 09 06:04
DaemonFCso VBR handles this problem nicelyJun 09 06:04
DaemonFCVBR setting 2 on LAME produces reasonable file sizes and excellent qualityJun 09 06:05
DaemonFCkills both problemJun 09 06:05
DaemonFCand even though the MP3 format may not be as advanced as Vorbis, Lame has a much better VBR algorithm and psychoaccoustic modelJun 09 06:06
DaemonFCwhich is why neither can really overtake the other oneJun 09 06:06
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DaemonFCbut I really have to say I don't expect Vorbis to take off for a good number of reasonsJun 09 06:07
DaemonFCmaybe it will have some success in the whole HTML 5 thing as it scales down a little better than MP3Jun 09 06:07
splosionyeahJun 09 06:08
DaemonFCbut I don't think it will ever be really successful as a way to store files on your systemJun 09 06:08
DaemonFCwhat amazes me about Vorbis is how many things they left out of the final version to get a simple encoding and decoding processJun 09 06:09
DaemonFCone thing that really struck me as odd was that it doesn't  seem to support backwards predictionJun 09 06:12
DaemonFCI could be missing something thoughJun 09 06:12
splosionI don't know. My knowledge on encoding stuff is rather, err, limited. I guess I'd feel differently if I was ripping 300 CDs though :PJun 09 06:15
DaemonFCI had considered just dumping everything to WMA, but then if I ever try to play them on Linux and hit a snag, then I'm kind of just SOLJun 09 06:17
DaemonFCI saw a bunch of Ubuntu posts where people were trying to play back WMA Lossless and were having problemsJun 09 06:17
splosionUF: noobs leading noobsJun 09 06:18
DaemonFCyeah, I know there's some WMA support for LinuxJun 09 06:18
DaemonFCbut how much and to what extent is kind of iffyJun 09 06:19
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DaemonFCI remember Linspire was bragging about supporting them at one point (not surprising)Jun 09 06:19
splosionthe doom9 forums are a good place to check out for stripping WMA files of DRM and stuff. But honestly, why anyone even bothers with WMA is beyond me.Jun 09 06:20
DaemonFCyou can encode to WMA without DRMJun 09 06:20
DaemonFCstripping DRM tags out of purchased files is possibleJun 09 06:20
splosionI knowJun 09 06:20
DaemonFCbut you should consider that to be jailbreaking them, not a feature that gives you free reign to buy more of themJun 09 06:21
splosionI'd consider it an ethical duty to distribute stripped-DRM versions if an artist chose to distribute his stuff using only DRM'd stuff.Jun 09 06:23
DaemonFCwell, a lot of the time it's on Amazon MP3 and in iTunes as non-DRMJun 09 06:24
DaemonFCand Microsoft's Zune store is WMA with DRMJun 09 06:24
DaemonFCthat's changing thoughJun 09 06:24
splosionthe RIAA are living in LaLa land if they expect people to suddenly go against millions of years of human nature and say to their friends, "hey I'll give you that album. Just go right ahead and buy the licence and I'll ship e,m right over!"Jun 09 06:25
DaemonFCthe Zune store now has some normal MP3sJun 09 06:25
splosionyeahJun 09 06:25
DaemonFCso clearly they're willing to change after losing money trying to force people to buy shit they don't wantJun 09 06:25
splosioncapitalism wins out again. The customer said no, and they voted with their wallets. Good to see stuff actually working out in practice, for onceJun 09 06:25
DaemonFCDRM is dead, for the moment anywayJun 09 06:26
DaemonFCif they can ever kill off the CD, DRM will be right backJun 09 06:26
splosionthey talk about not stopping determined pirates (whoever they are), but just regular Joes from sharing music. But p2p rather makes that moot. It only ever takes one person to have the madskillz t crack it. it's a lost causeJun 09 06:28
DaemonFCmad skills my assJun 09 06:28
DaemonFCit takes about 2 minutes to make a torrent and post itJun 09 06:29
DaemonFCnot that I would knowJun 09 06:29
DaemonFC:PJun 09 06:29
splosionwell, yeah, exactlyJun 09 06:30
DaemonFCmost of the good artists that actually better to put quality over quantity get killed by the RIAAJun 09 06:30
DaemonFCto make room for the ones that fill ipods with cookie cutter crapJun 09 06:30
DaemonFCnot from "piracy"Jun 09 06:30
splosionin the UK, there's a bunch of artists who are rebelling against the labels. They're slowly moving towards managing themselves and working out the best way to distrubute their shit. I guess it's a matter of survival more than anything. they need a new business model fastJun 09 06:31
DaemonFCwell, ditching the RIAA is a good first stepJun 09 06:32
DaemonFCthey have to sell 10 CDs through the RIAA to make the profit of selling oneJun 09 06:32
DaemonFCso even without the exposure, they could still hardly do worseJun 09 06:33
DaemonFCthan after the RIAA gets done fucking them overJun 09 06:33
DaemonFCand these online stores typically fuck them over even worse than CD salesJun 09 06:33
DaemonFCif you buy a 99 cent track on iTunes, the artist gets about 7 1/2 centsJun 09 06:34
DaemonFCif thatJun 09 06:34
DaemonFCthe rest of it goes to Apple and the RIAAJun 09 06:34
splosioni think Joss Stone (pop singer) is offering EMI like ten million for them to cancel her contract. It's pretty obvious how hated those labels are if people are willing to do shit like that. I remember Radiohead released a bunch of crappy compliations to get out of their 7 record deal, tooJun 09 06:34
DaemonFCgahJun 09 06:35
DaemonFCindentured servitude anyone?Jun 09 06:35
DaemonFC:PJun 09 06:35
DaemonFCI think that's what happened to Amy Lee, she had some good stuff that she came up with before she got signedJun 09 06:36
DaemonFCsigned, re-recorded it all under the RIAAJun 09 06:36
DaemonFCdifferent album namesJun 09 06:37
DaemonFCand then just stopped releasing anything at allJun 09 06:37
splosionyeahJun 09 06:37
DaemonFCThe RIAA recordings weren't even as good as her independent stuffJun 09 06:38
splosionwhen I hear people trying to defend the labels with shit like "but it's unfair because now artists can't make a single song and live off the royalties for the rest of their lives." that shit isn't unfair it's life. tell those butthurt artists to grow a pair and fucking perform alreadyJun 09 06:38
DaemonFCthe RIAA recordings are just "too perfect"Jun 09 06:39
DaemonFCyou know?Jun 09 06:39
DaemonFCit's like a McDonalds cheeseburgerJun 09 06:40
DaemonFCtoo manufacturedJun 09 06:40
splosionyeah i understand that analogy, bizarrelyJun 09 06:41
DaemonFCthey also digitally altered her voiceJun 09 06:41
DaemonFCfor the RIAA stuffJun 09 06:41
DaemonFCthe independent stuff has her real vocalsJun 09 06:41
DaemonFCwhich are far betterJun 09 06:41
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*mib_w3cg2x is now known as Ball-SackJun 09 06:44
splosioni guess soJun 09 06:46
Ball-SackBit quiet tonight.Jun 09 06:49
splosionyou missed out on all the fun, Ball-SackJun 09 06:50
splosioncodecs and record labels!Jun 09 06:50
Ball-SackGoodness me!Jun 09 06:50
Ball-SackI feel so empty and worthless now!Jun 09 06:50
Ball-Sack=[Jun 09 06:51
DaemonFCsplosion: There's what you can do with a 5 MB MP3 :PJun 09 06:51
Ball-SackGee whiz!Jun 09 06:51
Ball-Sack5 MB?!Jun 09 06:51
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 06:51
Ball-SackWas it a podcast, or just a really long progressive rock song?Jun 09 06:51
DaemonFCgothic style rock  actually :PJun 09 06:52
Ball-SackHeh, nice.Jun 09 06:52
DaemonFCthe point is that it has a lot of stuff that MP3 is not known to compress wellJun 09 06:52
DaemonFCand you can get it toJun 09 06:52
Ball-SackI'm more of an 80's punk  lover myself.Jun 09 06:52
Ball-SackDead Kennedys and the like.Jun 09 06:52
Ball-SackIt's all good stuff.Jun 09 06:53
Ball-SackI also like me some good Satanic metal.Jun 09 06:56
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kentmaprog rock songs weren't long... hardly any were even over 30 mins...Jun 09 07:04
splosionstupid swiftfoxJun 09 07:06
splosionps auxf | grep swiftfox-bin | grep -v grep | grep -v mozilla | awk '{sum=sum+$6}; END {print sum/1024}'Jun 09 07:06
splosion451.707 megabytes. how is this acceptableJun 09 07:06
splosiongaaaaahJun 09 07:06
splosionFirefox is the same tooJun 09 07:06
kentmause a different browser...Jun 09 07:07
splosionI like Firefox's featuresJun 09 07:07
DaemonFCthat sounds about like Firefox to meJun 09 07:08
kentmaah... well, you need to make your choices, really.Jun 09 07:08
kentmathere are loads of browsers on Linux to choose from.Jun 09 07:08
splosionyeahJun 09 07:08
splosionbut no other browser has so many extensions. they really make the browser what it is.Jun 09 07:09
splosionUbiquity is just brilliant, for exampleJun 09 07:09
kentmaI think that both epiphany and konq have some support for FF extensions,  but I've not tried that.Jun 09 07:10
kentmaI agree, the FF extensions space is just incredible, there's never been anything like this, even in the heyday of Netscape before Microsoft started its long attack on same.Jun 09 07:10
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splosionyeahJun 09 07:12
splosiongonna keep this one in my aliases, actually. function ram() { ps auxf | grep $1 | grep -v grep | awk '{sum=sum+$6}; END {print sum/1024}'; }Jun 09 07:13
splosionThunderbird at 178 mb. Woo. mpd at 7mb. Seems rather large. Sonata at 22mb. gnome-panel at 22mb. HrrmJun 09 07:15
Carl_Rover2k12bada B!ngJun 09 07:15
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Carl_Rover2k12lolJun 09 07:16
*DaemonFC is now known as BingDecisionEngiJun 09 07:16
BingDecisionEngierrrJun 09 07:16
*BingDecisionEngi is now known as DaemonFCJun 09 07:16
DaemonFCnickname truncation :(Jun 09 07:17
Carl_Rover2k12Mozilla apps as of late take up plenty of sys memJun 09 07:17
splosionCarl_Rover2k12: swiftfox clocking up 452.746mb at the moJun 09 07:17
Carl_Rover2k12splosion: isn't it supposed to be optimized for x86 linux?Jun 09 07:18
splosionyeah but it still leaks like a bitchJun 09 07:19
splosionit is faster for the first few hours thoughJun 09 07:19
Carl_Rover2k12'splosion I find it surprising that even Chrome takes up less system memoryJun 09 07:19
Carl_Rover2k12even while its essentially running as a java appletJun 09 07:20
splosionjust fired up chromium. 31.1562 mb. NiceJun 09 07:22
DaemonFCGoogle Chrome is currently being offered to anyone that installs RealPlayerJun 09 07:27
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: Real Player should just move their app onto ChromeJun 09 07:29
twitterChina now requires users to have internet censoring software on every computer sold 09 07:30
twitterBill Gates is a big fan of China, and they love M$.Jun 09 07:31
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: but the PRC doesn't love them backJun 09 07:31
twitterThere's little difference between China's heavy handed, centralized laws and US laws requiring the same software on school and library computers.Jun 09 07:32
twitterMore insidious are M$'s forcing of Windows, which itself is capable of all the same spying and censorship.Jun 09 07:33
twitterTyrants can't stand software freedom.Jun 09 07:33
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: big difference is the US government doesn't really care what private computers are used for, so long as the NSA and FBI can easedrop on them once in a whileJun 09 07:33
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: also PRC has blocked Hotmail, enough saidJun 09 07:34
*Carl_Rover2k12 </rant>Jun 09 07:36
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*DaemonFC transcodes Carl_Rover2k12 to 64k WMAJun 09 07:55
DaemonFC:PJun 09 07:55
splosionHow many CDs do you have left to rip?Jun 09 07:58
DaemonFCI probably won't be done this weekJun 09 07:59
*DaemonFC looksJun 09 08:00
DaemonFCuggghJun 09 08:00
splosionit'd be pretty shit if a robot from the future comes and explodes your hard drive the second you're finally finished ripping them all. The AnnoyingatorJun 09 08:00
DaemonFCI've only ripped 97 of them so farJun 09 08:00
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EDavidBurgsurprisingly, #boycottnovell has a lot more people in it than #boybottnovellJun 09 08:01
*EDavidBurg learns to typeJun 09 08:01
splosionlolJun 09 08:02
*DaemonFC has Who Made Who cranked at the momentJun 09 08:04
DaemonFC:PJun 09 08:04
DaemonFCAC/DCJun 09 08:04
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 08:04
EDavidBurgAnything interesting going on?Jun 09 08:07
DaemonFCI made a Win64 version of VLCJun 09 08:08
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 08:08
EDavidBurgwindows?!Jun 09 08:08
*EDavidBurg stones DaemonFC Jun 09 08:08
DaemonFChehJun 09 08:08
DaemonFC 09 08:11
DaemonFCit works too :PJun 09 08:11
EDavidBurgso what was the linsux drama about?Jun 09 08:11
MinceREDavidBurg: don't mind DaemonFC, he's the resident m$ fanboy.Jun 09 08:11
EDavidBurgMinceR: is m$ a variable?Jun 09 08:12
MinceRno, it's the abbreviation of micro$oftJun 09 08:12
DaemonFC 09 08:12
DaemonFCI have most of that in my playlist :PJun 09 08:13
EDavidBurgMinceR: I know, it was a bad jokeJun 09 08:13
MinceRmy basic days are thankfully long goneJun 09 08:13
MinceRbblJun 09 08:13
EDavidBurgI don't think I would have found my way here without figuring out what M$ meantJun 09 08:13
EDavidBurg:)Jun 09 08:13
splosionswiftfox at 488.375mb now.Jun 09 08:15
splosiongonna reboot it. brbJun 09 08:15
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splosion2back down to 103.352mb nowJun 09 08:17
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splosion2still too much reallyJun 09 08:18
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*DaemonFC sticks MinceR in CVS and lets it twiddle his bitsJun 09 08:32
ushimitsudokihowdyJun 09 08:34
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-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What on Earth is the EPO Doing? < >Jun 09 08:38
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splosionmicrosoft giving away lappies in australia smooth movesJun 09 09:01
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DaemonFChmmm, I just tried WMA EncoderJun 09 09:03
DaemonFCwhat a crockJun 09 09:03
DaemonFCthe track sounds like a hungover CD maybeJun 09 09:03
splosionwhat did you expect? have you ever taken a dump and been surprised to find out that it stinks?Jun 09 09:04
DaemonFCI was just wondering if it had improved at all since the last time I dismissed itJun 09 09:04
DaemonFCit takes a lot more processing time to decode than the MP3 tooJun 09 09:05
DaemonFCso there goes your portable's battery lifeJun 09 09:05
splosionnot good for battery life on portablesJun 09 09:05
splosionerr, yeahJun 09 09:05
DaemonFCthey claim it's CD quality at ~70k VBRJun 09 09:06
DaemonFCI encoded it to ~192k to give it a fair shot at the V 2 MP3Jun 09 09:06
DaemonFCand it still failedJun 09 09:06
DaemonFCby the time I got it to sound like the MP3, I was up at ~370kJun 09 09:06
DaemonFC:PJun 09 09:06
splosionthat was the argument with oggs years ago if I remember. On one hand, people were complaining that mp3 encoders would add silence on to the end of the track, whereas oggs could be made to be pretty gapless by comparision. but then oggs take more powah to decode. is it still that way now?Jun 09 09:07
DaemonFCMP3 can be gaplessJun 09 09:07
DaemonFCLame can add that to the tagJun 09 09:07
DaemonFCnearly every player knows what that metadata meansJun 09 09:07
DaemonFCand even if it doesn't, it doesn't harm the file anyJun 09 09:08
splosionthey do now, yeahJun 09 09:08
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard Since Ive found myself using XP for the week,Im looking for the ultimate Win browser! Chrome? Opera? FF? The search continues!Jun 09 09:08
splosionsome of the first generation iPods used to insert a beep between tracks. sheesh. can you imagine how awful that must be?Jun 09 09:08
DaemonFCalmost every advantage they were saying Vorbis ha over MP3 is goneJun 09 09:08
splosionahJun 09 09:09
DaemonFCwhat's left are basically cheap shots and patent scaresJun 09 09:09
splosionthe patents on mp3 run out soon anywayJun 09 09:09
DaemonFCyes, most of them already have actuallyJun 09 09:09
DaemonFCplayback will be fully public domain by December 2012Jun 09 09:10
DaemonFCjust in time for the end of the world nuts to enjoy itJun 09 09:10
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 09:10
splosionthe end of the world... download the podcast nowJun 09 09:10
DaemonFCwhat sucks is that every portable that plays WMA plays EVERY profile of it because MS requires thatJun 09 09:12
DaemonFCbut they don't have to fully support AACJun 09 09:12
DaemonFCso I could use WMA Pro and get the Spectral Band Replication, but not HE-AACJun 09 09:13
DaemonFCor MP3ProJun 09 09:13
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @AstralKnight Thanks for the Digg on the "To Boldly Blow..." article. Appreciated.Jun 09 09:13
splosionspectral band replication. Now you've lost me. that sounds similar to a flux capacitor to me tbh. Let me just go wiki what that means :PJun 09 09:15
DaemonFCunfortunately Thomson was a bunch of assholes and decided to keep MP3Pro to themselvesJun 09 09:15
splosionSpectral band replication (SBR) is a technology to enhance audio or speech codecs, especially at low bit rates and is based on harmonic redundancy in the frequency domain.Jun 09 09:15
DaemonFCso nothing but their products could use itJun 09 09:15
DaemonFCand so it never went anywhereJun 09 09:15
DaemonFCyesJun 09 09:16
DaemonFCSBR can improve the quality quite a bitJun 09 09:16
DaemonFCthe HE-AAC high bitrate encoder can go up to 256kJun 09 09:16
splosionsounds like a pretty good ideaJun 09 09:17
DaemonFCI've tried HE-AAC and I can't tell the difference between a 128k HE-AAC and the CDJun 09 09:17
DaemonFC96k is jsut ever so slightly noticibleJun 09 09:17
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] From Live Search to Dead Search (aka “Bing”) < >Jun 09 09:18
DaemonFCyeah, SBR is pretty coolJun 09 09:18
DaemonFCit's currently how Microsoft is marketing 64k WMA to be CD qualityJun 09 09:19
DaemonFCwhich it's not, but the SBR helps it a lotJun 09 09:19
splosiondoes SBR still sound okay with tracks with loads of sounds in the upper echelons of harmonics?Jun 09 09:20
DaemonFCyesJun 09 09:20
DaemonFCnaturally, the higher the bitrate, the less SBR will help the qualityJun 09 09:20
splosionayeJun 09 09:21
DaemonFCbeyond 160k AAC, it's only using SBR above 16 KhzJun 09 09:21
DaemonFCstill, if your portables can use itJun 09 09:21
DaemonFCgo for itJun 09 09:21
DaemonFCit is part of the MPEG-4 standardJun 09 09:22
splosion16 khz. are you old enough to not be able to hear that yet?Jun 09 09:22
DaemonFCby 160k, any decent codec will reproduce that faithfully enough on its ownJun 09 09:23
DaemonFCthe SBR is used there to give the codec more bits to play with elsewhereJun 09 09:23
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splosionall this stuff needs to hurry up and public domain itself alreadyJun 09 09:26
DaemonFCthis movie is pretty good so farJun 09 09:29
DaemonFCClint Eastwood "El Torino"Jun 09 09:29
DaemonFCwell, every Clint Eastwood movie is goodJun 09 09:29
DaemonFCwhat am I saying? :PJun 09 09:29
splosionhaven't seen itJun 09 09:30
DaemonFC 09 09:31
DaemonFCI just hate waiting for VLC to spend 20 seconds cracking the CSS on every DVDJun 09 09:32
DaemonFCbut it still makes the best DVD player on WindowsJun 09 09:32
DaemonFC:PJun 09 09:32
splosion"The conflict ends when Walt threatens the gang members with his M1, and orders them to get off his lawn."Jun 09 09:34
splosionI gotta see it nowJun 09 09:34
DaemonFCClint Eastwood is still as badass as everJun 09 09:35
DaemonFCsplosion: I laughed my ass off back when Command & Conquer: Red Alert was outJun 09 09:36
DaemonFCand one of the special characters on one of the levels was "Flint WestwoodJun 09 09:36
splosionhahaJun 09 09:38
-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] -Jun 09 09:38
splosionA fishing boat. Oh.Jun 09 09:41
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-BN_com/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] - A shot from my balcony in Poole! I may be on holiday but I miss Linux! I'm having to use an XP Netbook...Jun 09 09:43
MinceRalso, it was a Westwood game :>Jun 09 09:44
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mib_i0zwnpBoycottnovellJun 09 09:45
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DaemonFCmmhmJun 09 09:46
DaemonFCbefore Westwood was bought out by EAJun 09 09:46
DaemonFC:PJun 09 09:46
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MinceRj0h0h0Jun 09 09:47
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trmancoschestowitz, is there a way to decrease the BN_com bot's nickname?Jun 09 09:48
trmancoit kinda messes up my xchat bufferJun 09 09:48
DaemonFC"You'd think the cold would keep the idiots out"Jun 09 10:02
DaemonFC:PJun 09 10:02
splosionPeople who mix up your/you're. Oh god. I want to stab them. The next time I see someone do it I am going to track them down, go to their house in the dead of night, and stab them repeatedly.Jun 09 10:03
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schestowitztrmanco: sure, let me look.Jun 09 10:04
schestowitzWhy are the k00ks still here?Jun 09 10:05
schestowitzHey, linsux folk, go back where you came fromJun 09 10:05
trmancook thanksJun 09 10:06
trmancobblJun 09 10:06
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MinceRsplosion: 09 10:09
*splosion explodesJun 09 10:10
splosionWell that makes sensesJun 09 10:10
*splosion asplodesJun 09 10:10
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splosionThanks for the link. bookmarkedJun 09 10:10
MinceRyw :)Jun 09 10:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Important Precedence: IBM Threatens to Sue Microsoft Over Propaganda Site < >Jun 09 10:10
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ushimitsudokiX( ubuntu going crazy on me todayJun 09 10:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Why the NHS is the best thing ever: 09 10:20
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schestowitz 09 10:22
schestowitz"Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid. "Jun 09 10:23
MinceRoiaohm: you seem to know a few things about x, so here's a question i have:Jun 09 10:24
MinceRwhen using 3d compositing (such as compiz), do textures made from windows (pixmaps) that are stored in video ram appear as part of resident set size?Jun 09 10:24
MinceRof compiz or XJun 09 10:24
ushimitsudokicheck out how Leo Laporte responds to someone questioning his integrity: 09 10:25
ushimitsudoki+1 to LeoJun 09 10:25
oiaohmReason why compiz screws up with DRI1 drivers is there is only one buffer to be used in the DRI1 design MinceRJun 09 10:25
MinceRbuffer to hold textures, right?Jun 09 10:25
oiaohmUnder DRI2 each application can have there own.Jun 09 10:26
oiaohmbuffer is basically 1 single huge texture that everything is writing to MinceR.Jun 09 10:26
MinceRicJun 09 10:26
oiaohmDRI2 each application has there own texture.Jun 09 10:26
oiaohmcompiz is basically 1 mother of a hack.Jun 09 10:27
MinceRdoes that buffer show up in [h]top as part of rss? sometimes i see rather high memory usage and i wondered if it was realJun 09 10:27
oiaohmKindaJun 09 10:29
MinceRthxJun 09 10:29
oiaohmDue to X11 under dri1 running its memory manager in usage space and other things can go passed X11 to the video card.Jun 09 10:29
oiaohmEverything in video card has to be duplicated in normal ram as well MinceRJun 09 10:30
MinceRthat's what i was afraid ofJun 09 10:30
MinceRand dri2 will fix that, right?Jun 09 10:30
oiaohmYepJun 09 10:30
oiaohmDri2 moves the memory manager into kernel.Jun 09 10:30
oiaohmWhere it really should have been in the first place.Jun 09 10:30
oiaohmSo framebuffer and X11 use the same memory manager to control the video card ram.  No more is this maybe in the video card.Jun 09 10:31
oiaohmPeople will not know X11 after the new DRI2 alterations are taken up by application developers.Jun 09 10:33
oiaohmIncluding the support of double buffering interface writes to screen.Jun 09 10:34
zoobab01 09 10:35
MinceRlooks like it was too early to move to 3d compositing for me.Jun 09 10:35
oiaohmLot of people complain about X11 crashing on them and it tracks to running compiz a lot.Jun 09 10:37
MinceRyesJun 09 10:38
oiaohmUbuntu has a lot to answer for.Jun 09 10:38
MinceRi stopped using beryl when it turned out to be very unstableJun 09 10:38
oiaohmPushing unstable techs on unsuspecting users.Jun 09 10:38
MinceRcompiz is still not quite stable enough, in part perhaps because of the nvidia driverJun 09 10:38
oiaohmNvidia driver is the best out of all of the DRI1 drivers.Jun 09 10:39
oiaohmMostly because Nvidia breaks DRI1 in a lot of places.Jun 09 10:39
MinceRwhich drivers support dri2 so far? only intel?Jun 09 10:39
oiaohmDRI2 drivers are still stablising.Jun 09 10:39
oiaohmUntil matching mesa3d is releases most DRI2 drivers are mostly annoynaces.Jun 09 10:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Patent expert Alison Crofts says EPLA is pushed by pro-software patents lobby: 09 10:40
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DaemonFCmostly because they patch their way around X's bullshitJun 09 10:50
DaemonFCyesJun 09 10:51
oiaohmThey also used really depreacated X11 bullshit.Jun 09 10:51
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oiaohmSo Nvidia drivers are are hibred between ok nice and why in mother did you use that piece of pain.Jun 09 10:52
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oiaohmzoobab01: That pro patent stuff is so stupid.  Ok if the patent system worked then maybe.  Current patent system will not without a major operations.Jun 09 10:54
oiaohmNumber 1 no secret sales of patents.   So anti-trust regulators can over see patent sales.Jun 09 10:55
DaemonFCso I can secretely license all of my patents to youJun 09 10:56
DaemonFCbut nobody elseJun 09 10:56
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DaemonFCand not even the regulators knowJun 09 10:56
DaemonFCcoolJun 09 10:56
DaemonFC:PJun 09 10:56
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oiaohmSo you can license you patents at masively different prices.Jun 09 10:59
oiaohmUnder the patent system you cannot refuse to give a patent just make it too expensive to for anyone to compete with the patent.Jun 09 10:59
DaemonFCso if I make it $50,000 for you, I have to make it $50,000 for everyoneJun 09 11:00
DaemonFCsounds fair enoughJun 09 11:00
DaemonFCas long as everything is out in the openJun 09 11:00
oiaohmCurrent system allows 50 dollars for 1 person and 2 million for another.Jun 09 11:00
oiaohm100 percent not fair.Jun 09 11:01
DaemonFCoiaohm: So how in the hell did Fluendo license Windows Media for Linux?Jun 09 11:01
DaemonFCis what I want to knowJun 09 11:01
oiaohmThey aquired a licence from microsoft for embedded devices.  Just they made sure the contract by the end only had the word devices.Jun 09 11:02
oiaohmSo covering everything.Jun 09 11:02
DaemonFCahhhJun 09 11:02
DaemonFCI had wondered why Microsoft would set reasonable licensing for Windows Media on LinuxJun 09 11:03
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oiaohmNormal open source world.   Send what looks like a poor non important vendor to make the patent deal for all.Jun 09 11:04
DaemonFCso Microsoft had no idea that they'd turn around and make Windows Media for LinuxJun 09 11:04
DaemonFCthey figured they were a no-name bulk licensor for devicesJun 09 11:05
oiaohmYep.Jun 09 11:05
oiaohmThey are even lazyer than that.Jun 09 11:05
oiaohmMost of there decoders were created in the open source world DaemonFC.Jun 09 11:05
DaemonFCthat's actually pretty funnyJun 09 11:05
DaemonFCand now there's nothing they can do about itJun 09 11:06
oiaohmSo Fluendo really has not made that many codecs.Jun 09 11:07
DaemonFCand it looks like you can't encode to Windows Media with their stuff, just decodeJun 09 11:07
DaemonFCffmpeg can encode to WMA or WMV if you need it toJun 09 11:07
oiaohmFluendo missed buying that right.Jun 09 11:07
oiaohmBut for long term storage why would you.Jun 09 11:08
DaemonFCwell, there's few reasons why you would want to use WMAJun 09 11:08
DaemonFCbut I think it would be funny if there was a way to legally do it on Linux without MS being able to sue youJun 09 11:08
oiaohmYou could in theory setup a recoding service in a country where software patents does not apply.Jun 09 11:10
DaemonFCmost of the Windows Media specification is frozenJun 09 11:10
DaemonFCso there's really not much risk of incompatible format changesJun 09 11:11
DaemonFCWMA decoding hasn't really changed much at all since like 2001Jun 09 11:11
DaemonFCthe encoding hasJun 09 11:11
oiaohmAlso some of the encoding and decoding that is patented could end up in video cards as well.Jun 09 11:12
DaemonFCso then you have a license if you own a video cardJun 09 11:14
DaemonFCcoolJun 09 11:14
oiaohmMostly due to the simple fact your video card is far more effective than a cpu at processing complex maths requred to decompress some of these highly compressed formats.Jun 09 11:19
DaemonFCI just want to know why some people swear by WMAJun 09 11:23
DaemonFCit still can't hold a candle to LAME MP3Jun 09 11:24
DaemonFCI've tried every possible way you can encode it and the result is never really all that greatJun 09 11:24
DaemonFCI'm thinking the raving about it is some good old fashioned drive-by shillingJun 09 11:25
DaemonFCa forum here a blog thereJun 09 11:25
DaemonFCI do like what Foobar 2000 does with media file icons, color codes them all so you know what they are just by lookingJun 09 11:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono Critique Almost a Taboo in Ubuntu Forums, Ideas, Bugs, and Mailing Lists < >Jun 09 11:30
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oiaohmA long time ago WMA kicked LAME tail DaemonFCJun 09 11:43
oiaohmBut time has passed LAME programmers have improved there encoding methods.Jun 09 11:43
oiaohmBasicaly the normal MS sit on ass solution and wounder how they end up with so much crap.Jun 09 11:44
DaemonFCI've always been on the side of MP3Jun 09 11:46
DaemonFCI actually ended up buying a paid copy of MusicMatch Jukebox to get an encoder years agoJun 09 11:46
DaemonFCbefore there were any friendly onesJun 09 11:46
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DaemonFCoiaohm: It's like the RIAA trying to sue the MP3 player out of existence or MPAA trying to sue the VCR out of existenceJun 09 11:58
DaemonFCafraid of disruptive technology, they attack it, slander it, smear it, then try to profiteer off it after failing to kill itJun 09 11:59
oiaohmMP3 was the creator being a bastard.Jun 09 12:03
oiaohmCreate tech release it free then hit everyone with a submirne patent.Jun 09 12:03
DaemonFCMP3 got away from actually being corporate-controlled because they didn't have an OS to tie it to like Microsoft or AppleJun 09 12:04
schestowitzAT*Jun 09 12:04
schestowitzAT&T shuts down NGs nowJun 09 12:04
schestowitzNot usenet accessJun 09 12:04
schestowitzThey smeared it enough by now. Terrorism, pedophiles, "piracy"..Jun 09 12:05
amarsh04I noticed schestowitz, their messages leaked out to the news server that my ISP usesJun 09 12:05
schestowitzNow they shut down another place of free speech.Jun 09 12:05
schestowitzI wrote about this beforeJun 09 12:05
schestowitzThey try to reshape the InternetJun 09 12:05
schestowitzPaywalls, censorship, Phorm, etc.Jun 09 12:06
amarsh04my ISP continued providing newsgroups as a standard part of their service because of continued customer demandJun 09 12:06
schestowitz 09 12:06
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, people require thisJun 09 12:06
schestowitzThen they'll announce less demand... cause they don't offer itJun 09 12:07
DaemonFCI noticed that WMA especially has trouble with electric guitar chordsJun 09 12:07
schestowitzAttack something, see it decline, then claim there's no demand for it anymoreJun 09 12:07
DaemonFCit just kind of smudges themJun 09 12:07
schestowitzLike Linux sub-notebooksJun 09 12:07
schestowitzEnsure it's not available in shelves, add some FUD and then claim the people have chosenJun 09 12:07
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schestowitzWell, chosen to not actually have any choice because MS made it soJun 09 12:07
schestowitzGotta love the "people chose Windows" arguments being applied to OEMSJun 09 12:08
schestowitzAs if people actually choose Windows for thier new computerJun 09 12:08
schestowitzThey just buy a computer... it's always saddled with Windows, without any other choiceJun 09 12:08
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DaemonFCand hardware that only has Windows driversJun 09 12:09
DaemonFCthat's typically been another problemJun 09 12:10
DaemonFCit used to be switching to Linux meant almost certainly having to put $100 or more on a new dial up modemJun 09 12:10
DaemonFCcause it didn't support most modems that came with OEM PCsJun 09 12:11
DaemonFCstill doesn't, but almost nobody uses those anymoreJun 09 12:11
DaemonFCso it's unimportantJun 09 12:11
DaemonFCthat's why they are rolling with the "Media Center PC" now and putting all kinds of things like TV tuners in that Linux can't handleJun 09 12:12
DaemonFCthey have to keep it to where installing Linux means something on the PC won't work right or at allJun 09 12:12
splosionhardware incompatibility is becoming less of a problem more and more, though. For most thingsJun 09 12:13
splosionI think you'll see lots more "people prefer Windows" stuff being trotted out. the argument for linux not being for the masses will change to that and only that, eventuallyJun 09 12:13
DaemonFCso schestowitz: What would you say if someone has such a PC and enjoys using the features that Linux can't handle, and doesn't feel like dragging a 103 pound television back into my bedroom?Jun 09 12:14
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 12:14
DaemonFCDo we blame the hardware companies, Microsoft, the user who just wants a device to work, or all of the above?Jun 09 12:14
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splosionshouldn't blame the user. I mean, expecting people to have to put up with stuff Linux can't do is too muchJun 09 12:16
DaemonFCthats why a lot of people install Linux, find out that lots of expensive hardware doesn't work, and begrudgingly trot back to Windows, and it really isn't their faultJun 09 12:16
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DaemonFCbut at least it's not usually a crippling problem like no network or no video card anymoreJun 09 12:17
splosionit's the long tail. the core stuff is supported. getting the needs of people with special needs comes after thatJun 09 12:18
splosionspecial needs(!)Jun 09 12:18
DaemonFCwell, hehJun 09 12:18
DaemonFCyeah...Jun 09 12:18
DaemonFCmoving on...Jun 09 12:18
DaemonFCLinux has great software you can use to manage your TV card provided you can get it workingJun 09 12:19
splosionthat's where the hardware manufacturers come into play. Microsoft is losing its grip on controlling themJun 09 12:19
DaemonFCall 3 models that seem to be supported wellJun 09 12:19
DaemonFCand are all a huge downgrade from the card I already haveJun 09 12:19
DaemonFCand a lot of the ones Linux supports are the old NTSC analogs that can't legally be sold in the US anymoreJun 09 12:20
DaemonFChardly any ATSC tuner support on LinuxJun 09 12:20
DaemonFCI think I saw two models that you can get workingJun 09 12:20
splosionit's a drag. Getting my mobile phone to work with linux sucked for me too. Never tried TV cards thoughJun 09 12:22
oiaohmUSB side does me well here DaemonFCJun 09 12:22
oiaohmFor tuners.Jun 09 12:22
DaemonFCI'll be happy when video accelerators have a TV tuner built in in their entry and mid level stuffJun 09 12:22
oiaohmIs the USA lacking even in them.Jun 09 12:22
DaemonFCso the device maker more or less has to support it in their Linux driverJun 09 12:22
amarsh04have use been running digital television under linux, oiaohm?Jun 09 12:22
oiaohmIn Australia yes amarsh04Jun 09 12:23
amarsh04I'm in Adelaide, oiaohmJun 09 12:23
DaemonFCWindows Media Center actually doesn't make bad TV softwareJun 09 12:24
amarsh04haven't yet tried any digital television products at home, only played with a few other people's set top boxesJun 09 12:24
DaemonFCthe Microsoft Guide is actually an improvement over the slow piece of shit that the cable box hasJun 09 12:24
DaemonFCof course it's a Microsoft product vs a Comcast productJun 09 12:25
DaemonFCit's not like the bar is set highJun 09 12:25
DaemonFCeverytime there's a stiff breeze outside my cable goes downJun 09 12:25
oiaohmYou will find there is quite a section of USB devices supported by v4l that will do our free to air very well amarsh04.Jun 09 12:25
DaemonFCthere's just so many points of failure for anything that has anything to do with sound or video on LinuxJun 09 12:26
DaemonFCand every piece of the stack is controlled by some other organizationJun 09 12:26
DaemonFCand pieced together by packaging monkeys at your distributionJun 09 12:27
amarsh04ok, thanks oiaohm... what's a good place to find a listing? kernel source, v4linux pages...?Jun 09 12:27
DaemonFCoutdates, incomplete, and utterly uselessJun 09 12:27
DaemonFCthose listings that isJun 09 12:27
DaemonFC*outdatedJun 09 12:27
DaemonFCI picked them apart trying to see if Newegg had anything that sounded remotely like what they claim works with LinuxJun 09 12:28
amarsh04I couldn't even get decent support for dial-up modems regardless of manufacturer - I could ring up Les Brown of Motorola but had terrible trouble getting updated firmware for my Motorola Codex 3266 modemJun 09 12:29
DaemonFCI've seen where a few people have gotten *some* Aver Media stuff working with Aver Media's kernel blobsJun 09 12:29
DaemonFCbut you know how those vendor drivers come and goJun 09 12:29
amarsh04my Telebit Fastblazer 8840 was opsoleted when ITK then Digi took over the former TelebitJun 09 12:29
DaemonFCthe way Fedora and Ubuntu upgrade, I'd be surprised if you could keep the device working with an out of tree driverJun 09 12:29
amarsh04I'd also had a full original purchase price of a dial-up modem (over AUD$1000) refunded rather than the supplier fixing a protocol compliance failureJun 09 12:31
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amarsh04with dial-up modems there were both proprietary and regulatory issues that prevented users from fixing the firmware - in some cases not even Rockwell/Connexant knew the source of bugs in their own productsJun 09 12:32
DaemonFCMicrosoft is supporting libmtpJun 09 12:33
DaemonFCunofficiallyJun 09 12:33
DaemonFC 09 12:34
MinceRthe saddest thing about conexant is that they seem to have discontinued the bt878Jun 09 12:34
DaemonFCQ: Any manufacturers helping you guys out?Jun 09 12:34
DaemonFCA: Not really, with the exception of Microsoft who gave us a Zune through a proxy. Creative has been positive though. If you work for a MTP device producer, please help.Jun 09 12:34
MinceRprobably some small fry in the companyJun 09 12:34
MinceRrisking his jobJun 09 12:35
amarsh04if something works and is understood it is declared obsolete /-:Jun 09 12:35
DaemonFC 09 12:35
DaemonFCUbuntu is already brokenJun 09 12:35
DaemonFCand can't communicate with players in MTP modeJun 09 12:35
DaemonFCeven without the encrypted modeJun 09 12:35
MinceRthey also seem to have broken dmixJun 09 12:36
schestowitzXbox Controller now for real weapons... Adobe AIR driving the military of tomorrow  < >Jun 09 12:36
MinceRi can't play sound with audacious and kaccess at the same timeJun 09 12:36
splosionDaemonFC: wish I'd known that before. I spent ages trying to get my gf's mp3 player to work in Jaunty, fiddling about with fuse and wotnot.Jun 09 12:36
splosionshe went back to hardy where her mtp thing more or less worked okayJun 09 12:37
DaemonFCdon't bother, Ubuntu is getting so bad that you have to hack and recompile everything to make it behaveJun 09 12:37
amarsh04is MTP like PTP for audio/video?Jun 09 12:37
MinceRi've started installing lenny alreadyJun 09 12:37
MinceRthe base system is on alreadyJun 09 12:38
DaemonFCMTP is Microsoft's Media Transfer Protocol, which has become the de fact standard for anything that's not an iPodJun 09 12:38
DaemonFC:PJun 09 12:38
MinceRgot some info regarding nvidia driver versions :>Jun 09 12:38
DaemonFCunless you want to put the thing in MSC mode and drag and drop, and then more power to youJun 09 12:38
splosionas soon as I get a back-up hard-disk for 600gb of my stuff, I'm going to nuke Ubuntu and go back to DebianJun 09 12:38
MinceRah, so MTP is m$'s NIH-ism for the usb storage standardJun 09 12:38
DaemonFClet me know how the hell of mangled playlisting worksJun 09 12:38
MinceRwhile crApple also has their own NIH-ism for usb storageJun 09 12:38
MinceRwhile every chinese noname company knows how to implement usb-storageJun 09 12:39
DaemonFCMSC is crap for portable media playersJun 09 12:39
DaemonFCit works, but not wellJun 09 12:39
splosionDaemonFC: not so. Cowon players identify themselves as generic USB devices. no messin'Jun 09 12:39
MinceRbut it's just par for the course -- we knew ipoo-s and zunes suckJun 09 12:39
DaemonFCMinceR: there's no software on Linux that can properly sync an iPodJun 09 12:39
MinceRbtw m$ didn't care to implement usb networking either, they have RNDIS insteadJun 09 12:39
DaemonFCeven if you're meticulous about file names and id3v1 and id3v2 tagsJun 09 12:40
DaemonFCthey all fuck it over somehowJun 09 12:40
MinceRDaemonFC: i know ipoos suck, no need to elaborateJun 09 12:40
DaemonFCWinamp can seek an iPodJun 09 12:40
MinceRcrApple even dmca-ed the project that would have made it workJun 09 12:40
DaemonFCwhat exactly is Rhythmbox's excuse?Jun 09 12:40
DaemonFC*syncJun 09 12:40
amarsh04MinceR, PTP for digital cameras is more flexible than USB mass storage - some cameras support bothJun 09 12:40
MinceRthat it's a music player, not a DMP sync app?Jun 09 12:41
DaemonFCif you let Rhythmbox touch your iPod, you will need to reformat the iPodJun 09 12:41
DaemonFCto fix what it ends up doingJun 09 12:41
MinceRamarsh04: does it do anything that's worth doing and usb storage can't do?Jun 09 12:41
amarsh04only one device can access USB at a time, with PTP you can be simultaneously taking pictures and transfering other pictures with the same cameraJun 09 12:42
MinceRcrApple building giant monolithic shit that wants to do everything and the kitchen sink and failing at everything doesn't mean everyone has to do the same thing nowJun 09 12:42
MinceRunix philosophy, you knowJun 09 12:42
amarsh04s/USB/USB mass storage/Jun 09 12:42
DaemonFCWhat I want to know is why exactly Winamp, and Real Player, and even Windows Media Player can sync an iPod, using their own implementations of everythingJun 09 12:42
DaemonFCand nothing on Linux can seem toJun 09 12:42
MinceRamarsh04: huh?Jun 09 12:42
MinceRamarsh04: there's only the camera and the computer that needs to access it and that's an implementation detailJun 09 12:42
MinceRDaemonFC: perhaps they've paid crApple protection moneyJun 09 12:43
MinceRDaemonFC: or crApple isn't afraid of them (and windows) as much as they're afraid of gnu/linuxJun 09 12:43
amarsh04USB mass storage doesn't support multiple devices accessing the same USB storage device at onceJun 09 12:43
DaemonFCWhen Linux media players don't dump all my properly tagged music into "Unkown Artist" "Unknown Album"Jun 09 12:43
DaemonFCwe'll talkJun 09 12:43
MinceRamarsh04: there's only one device that needs to access it at once: the computer you've plugged it intoJun 09 12:43
MinceRthe camera doesn't need to talk over usbJun 09 12:43
MinceRto its own storageJun 09 12:44
MinceRDaemonFC: good! then you can shut up until then!Jun 09 12:44
MinceR(and stick your iPoo where the sun doesn't shine; perhaps next time you'll know not to buy crap dmp-s)Jun 09 12:44
DaemonFCit also doesn't properly sync with players using MSC mode with the FOSS firmware like RockboxJun 09 12:45
DaemonFCso it's not just an Apple thingJun 09 12:45
DaemonFCRhythmbox blowsJun 09 12:45
*MinceR waits for the inevitable banshee adJun 09 12:45
MinceRalso, your conclusion failsJun 09 12:45
MinceRMSC blowsJun 09 12:45
DaemonFCno, Banshee is actually worse than RhythmboxJun 09 12:46
MinceRthere's a reason the usb mass storage standard was inventedJun 09 12:46
DaemonFCif you can believe itJun 09 12:46
MinceRm$ and crApple ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't the standard and it isn't expected of usb devicesJun 09 12:46
DaemonFCBanshee's tagging system is piss poorly conceivedJun 09 12:46
DaemonFCMSC is a standard for every USB mass storage deviceJun 09 12:46
DaemonFCdeal with itJun 09 12:47
DaemonFCMTP is the one you're trying to smearJun 09 12:47
DaemonFCbut it just shows that Rhythmbox is inferior when it can't even deal with MSCJun 09 12:47
MinceRrightJun 09 12:47
MinceRonce again, rhythmbox isn't a file managerJun 09 12:47
MinceRneither is it a coffee machine or a word processorJun 09 12:47
MinceRit's a music playerJun 09 12:48
MinceRso it plays musicJun 09 12:48
DaemonFCit should be able to sync a portableJun 09 12:48
MinceRdeal with itJun 09 12:48
DaemonFCthat's what it's there to doJun 09 12:48
MinceRis it now.Jun 09 12:48
MinceRand i don't see why you're whining, you're using vista with some windows-based crap anywayJun 09 12:48
DaemonFCRhythmbox is like putting in a web browser that can't render web pagesJun 09 12:48
MinceRso your crApple and m$ paperweights can certainly communicate with itJun 09 12:49
DaemonFCbut then blasting anyone that criticizes itJun 09 12:49
MinceRno, rhythmbox is like making a music player that can't copy filesJun 09 12:49
MinceRor like making a vacuum cleaner that can't make coffeeJun 09 12:49
DaemonFCno, it tries to but can'tJun 09 12:49
DaemonFCif it can't do it, it shouldn't offer toJun 09 12:49
MinceRnot that i careJun 09 12:49
MinceRaudacious is still fine for meJun 09 12:49
DaemonFCif it's going to fuck over your playlist, it should not touch your deviceJun 09 12:49
MinceR(and it plays formats you haven't even heard of :> )Jun 09 12:50
DaemonFCif I don't use them, they're probably not worth usingJun 09 12:50
MinceRobviously, if you don't use something, it isn't worth usingJun 09 12:50
MinceRalso, if your ipoo can't communicate properly over usb, it shouldn't offer toJun 09 12:51
MinceRby your reasoning.Jun 09 12:51
DaemonFCI tend to use MP3 for audio and H.264 for videosJun 09 12:51
MinceRand if it can, use a damn file manager and shut up.Jun 09 12:51
DaemonFCthey work better than anything else out thereJun 09 12:51
MinceRexcept notJun 09 12:52
DaemonFCwell, Theora is crap unless you crank the bitrate upJun 09 12:52
DaemonFCso your file is bloatedJun 09 12:52
DaemonFCthen there's the fact that no player recognizes itJun 09 12:52
MinceRogg vorbis and flac both work better than mp3 if your dmp supports themJun 09 12:52
DaemonFCand it eats CPU cycles to decodeJun 09 12:52
MinceRnews flash, all video codecs eat cpu cyclesJun 09 12:53
MinceRthe more efficient the codec is spacewise, the more cycles it eatsJun 09 12:53
DaemonFCH.264 is better about everything I just mentionedJun 09 12:53
DaemonFCyou can even encode for yourself and compare if you likeJun 09 12:53
DaemonFCthat's why you don't have to just take my wordJun 09 12:53
MinceRtry editing h.264 video thenJun 09 12:53
MinceRthen you'll see it isn't the end-all be-all of video codecsJun 09 12:54
MinceR(protip: mjpeg is more suitable for editing, for example)Jun 09 12:54
DaemonFCI usually just use VLC to transcode DVD into H.264Jun 09 12:54
DaemonFCit usually ends up looking pretty goodJun 09 12:54
DaemonFCTheora is just a trainwreckJun 09 12:55
DaemonFCall kinds of visual distortionsJun 09 12:55
DaemonFCand blobbynessJun 09 12:55
DaemonFCjust no other way to describe itJun 09 12:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @mozhacks: 35 days: geolocation in Firefox 3.5: 09 12:55
DaemonFCTheora needs a lot of work if they want to be taken seriously, I would imagine that there will be Theora blockers if it finds its way onto embedded pages in the futureJun 09 12:56
MinceRnotice that transcoding and editing are two different tasksJun 09 12:56
DaemonFCbecause devices will crash or freeze trying to play it backJun 09 12:56
MinceRwhat devices? what the hell are you talking about again?Jun 09 12:57
DaemonFCphones and stuffJun 09 12:57
MinceRwhy would those crash on playing back ogg theora?Jun 09 12:57
DaemonFCstuff that can't just throw faster processors at the problem of a bad video codecJun 09 12:57
MinceRwhat part of the spec says "if you see this block, crash the device?Jun 09 12:57
MinceRs/\?/"?/Jun 09 12:57
DaemonFCno, I mean devices will have to block it from loadingJun 09 12:58
MinceRi'd like to see some proof for some of the smearing you doJun 09 12:58
MinceR141222 < DaemonFC> because devices will crash or freeze trying to play it backJun 09 12:58
MinceRonce again, i'll askJun 09 12:58
DaemonFCyeah, they willJun 09 12:58
MinceRwhat part of the spec says "if you see this block, crash the device"?Jun 09 12:58
DaemonFCit will overload their RAM/CPUJun 09 12:58
DaemonFCTheora is a pigJun 09 12:58
splosiondidn't nokia get the ogg requirements taken out of the w3c's html5 specs?Jun 09 12:58
DaemonFCI hope soJun 09 12:59
MinceRexcept they'll have coprocessors to help decode it if they want to support any video codecJun 09 12:59
MinceRjust like they already doJun 09 12:59
DaemonFCI'd hate to run into that with my phoneJun 09 12:59
DaemonFCgod damnJun 09 12:59
MinceRso you're fan of DRM too, aren't you?Jun 09 12:59
DaemonFCnoJun 09 12:59
MinceRjust like nokia and crAppleJun 09 12:59
DaemonFCyou're a fan of ad hominem attacksJun 09 12:59
DaemonFCaren't you? :PJun 09 12:59
MinceRyou're an idiotJun 09 12:59
MinceRaren't you?Jun 09 12:59
MinceR(don't answer, we already know)Jun 09 12:59
DaemonFCwell, you better not use KDEJun 09 13:00
MinceRwhy?Jun 09 13:00
DaemonFCNokia owns the QT toolkitJun 09 13:00
DaemonFCand develops itJun 09 13:00
MinceRso what?Jun 09 13:00
DaemonFCevilnessJun 09 13:00
MinceRkde isn't the qt toolkit, it _uses_ the qt toolkitJun 09 13:00
DaemonFClike zOMG!!!!111Jun 09 13:00
mib_ac4yxaive never seen DRM !!Jun 09 13:00
MinceRand since qt 4.5 it can survive pretty well without nokiaJun 09 13:00
MinceRand there's no DRM support in qtJun 09 13:01
DaemonFCif you're not doing anything illegal, you probably never will see DRMJun 09 13:01
mib_ac4yxathats why then !!! :)Jun 09 13:01
MinceRand if you plan on never doing anything illegal in your life, you'll find that they've turned you into a slaveJun 09 13:01
MinceRand you've lost all control over your lifeJun 09 13:01
DaemonFCI don't steal everything I useJun 09 13:02
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 13:02
MinceRonly some of it?Jun 09 13:02
MinceRwow, you're a real heroJun 09 13:02
mib_ac4yxaconversly, if you do something illegal you've turned into a criminal !Jun 09 13:02
DaemonFCso why would I have to worry about DRM?Jun 09 13:02
MinceRthe MAFIAA and the b$a must be really proud of youJun 09 13:02
splosionMinceR: I see the moral relativism argument there. But mostly I don't break laws because I don't see any need to.Jun 09 13:02
DaemonFCThe CDs are like beyond cheapJun 09 13:02
DaemonFCit's well worth having themJun 09 13:02
mib_ac4yxaAnd no i dont steal anything either, or break the laws, and im not a slave to anyone thankyou.Jun 09 13:02
splosionit's an important distinction!Jun 09 13:02
MinceRalso, if you weren't so ignorant you'd know that DRM hampers inexperienced legal users the most, not those who illegally copy the contentJun 09 13:03
mib_ac4yxaI dont work for anyone eitherJun 09 13:03
MinceRsplosion: usually i don't see any need either -- but i can see the push to limit my freedom to unacceptable levelsJun 09 13:03
MinceRsplosion: and i can see that we've only narrowly avoided things like sw patents in the euJun 09 13:03
DaemonFCthere's no DRM on any of my CDsJun 09 13:03
mib_ac4yxaIm a legal user and ive never seen it,  nor have i seen any of my customers have any problems with it, and they are inexperiencedJun 09 13:04
DaemonFCWindows doesn't stop me from ripping to MP3 or Ogg VorbisJun 09 13:04
DaemonFCthere are no black hellicoptersJun 09 13:04
MinceRbut we do have the wipo treatyJun 09 13:04
DaemonFCMinceR: 09 13:04
MinceRand now you'll all violate the wipo copyright treaty: the previous statement was encrypted via double-rot-13 encryption.Jun 09 13:04
mib_ac4yxawhats a wipo ?Jun 09 13:05
splosionmy sister had a bunch of problem with DRM when she tried to copy the songs on her iPod over to her new computer.Jun 09 13:05
DaemonFC 09 13:05
MinceRDaemonFC: 09 13:07
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: World Intellectual Property OrganizationJun 09 13:07
DaemonFCblack helicopers for MinceR organizationJun 09 13:08
DaemonFCw00t!Jun 09 13:08
DaemonFC*helicoptersJun 09 13:08
MinceRDaemonFC: 09 13:08
mib_ac4yxaok, so are you suggesting we should break the law so we are not sheep ?? so what crime have you commited recently ?Jun 09 13:09
DaemonFCMinceR: 09 13:09
splosion 09 13:09
MinceRDaemonFC: link yourself thatJun 09 13:09
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: i don't know, i'm not a juristJun 09 13:09
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: there probably are lots of laws i've unwittingly brokenJun 09 13:10
MinceRcould very well i'm not even in control of itJun 09 13:10
*jbartosik has quit (No route to host)Jun 09 13:10
mib_ac4yxahow many "wittingly " ? to show your not a sheep too !Jun 09 13:10
MinceR(knowing how well our authorities work)Jun 09 13:10
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: i won't reveal that in publicJun 09 13:10
mib_ac4yxaBut you admit you commit crimes, ok and we are supposed to use that for our societies goals and ambitions ? niceJun 09 13:11
splosionhere's one for you, mib_ac4yxa: I've downloaded a shit-ton of copyrighted music illegally. But that's not really anti-sheepish behaviour as, would you believe it, everyone else I know does that tooJun 09 13:12
MinceRit's better than blindly doing what the "leaders" and megacorps tell youJun 09 13:12
mib_ac4yxaare you ashemed for them ?Jun 09 13:12
mib_ac4yxaNo wonder you're against DRM then, it stop your from stealing something, you must realy have LOCKS and doors and banks too !!Jun 09 13:13
mib_ac4yxahave = HateJun 09 13:13
splosionoooh nice trollin'Jun 09 13:14
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: if you think that's stealing you've been mislead alreadyJun 09 13:14
MinceRs/ea/e/Jun 09 13:14
mib_ac4yxalogical argument is all it is.Jun 09 13:14
MinceRmight be logical but that isn't worth anything if your assumptions are false.Jun 09 13:14
mib_ac4yxaIF they were sure. but they dont seem to beJun 09 13:14
mib_ac4yxawhats the difference between a lock to stop you stealing and DRM ?Jun 09 13:15
MinceRthe lock doesn't hamper me in legal uses of the doorJun 09 13:15
splosiontheft requires that the person you stole from no longer has use of whatever it is you stole from him. Copying stuff doesn't suffer from that. That's why it isn't theft. Has it ever occurred to you, mib_ac4yxa, that no one has ever gone to prison for downloading music?Jun 09 13:15
MinceRDRM prevents typical users from many legal fair usesJun 09 13:15
MinceRi control the lock to my own propertyJun 09 13:15
mib_ac4yxathats your justification, the the laws justification therefore DRMJun 09 13:16
MinceRmedia companies control the DRM to my propertyJun 09 13:16
MinceRsee the difference?Jun 09 13:16
mib_ac4yxasure they do, and car companies sell you cars that can exceed the speed limit, you as a responsible person should not speed, or steal even if you are capable of itJun 09 13:16
splosionmib_ac4yxa: no one has ever gone to prison for downloading music. It is not a criminal matter, it is a civil one. it is not theft. Theft is a criminal act.Jun 09 13:17
MinceRif you could prevent an accident by speeding, would you do it?Jun 09 13:17
splosiongo back to troll school, dude, you can't download a fucking carJun 09 13:17
MinceRif you lost the keys to your own home, would you break the lock?Jun 09 13:17
mib_ac4yxayou can break the law with it,Jun 09 13:17
mib_ac4yxaif you cant tell the difference yourself , im sorry but you need the schoolingJun 09 13:18
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splosionfail troll is failJun 09 13:18
mib_ac4yxalost for a good argument I see,, fair enoughJun 09 13:19
MinceR 09 13:19
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: well, we're waiting for your first good argumentJun 09 13:20
splosionI've said it before and I'll say it again, the doom9 forums are the bomb for learning how to strip DRM from media files.Jun 09 13:20
mib_ac4yxayes mabey, but does not look that way. looks like your lost for a counter argument, therefore I guess i win. not much of a fight butJun 09 13:20
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: protip: declaring yourself a winner without anything to support it works only in kindergartenJun 09 13:21
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: i suggest you go back thereJun 09 13:21
MinceRand perhaps learn to think for yourselfJun 09 13:21
mib_ac4yxafine whateverJun 09 13:21
DaemonFCI still buy the CD, it's worth havingJun 09 13:22
DaemonFCespecially used onesJun 09 13:22
MinceRthere's no legal nor moral justification for DRMJun 09 13:22
splosionDaemonFC: especially if the previous owner has scribbled on the liner notesJun 09 13:22
mib_ac4yxalets see if you dont have a real case to put, you'll revert to personal attacks,Jun 09 13:22
splosionfound an old phone number on an old Pink Floyd LP once. that was fun calling it upJun 09 13:23
DaemonFCI look at the disc before I buy itJun 09 13:23
mib_ac4yxahow so ? explain why there is no legal justification for DRM,.Jun 09 13:23
DaemonFCI wouldn't buy one that was scratched to hellJun 09 13:23
DaemonFCthe file belongs to themJun 09 13:23
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: i've already explained: because it also prevents several legal usesJun 09 13:23
DaemonFCthey can do what they want to itJun 09 13:23
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: and because it doesn't effectively prevent illegal usesJun 09 13:23
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: stop being write-only.Jun 09 13:23
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DaemonFClaws against murder don't stop murdersJun 09 13:24
DaemonFClets repeal themJun 09 13:24
MinceRdo laws against murder stop you from doing something that isn't murder?Jun 09 13:24
trmancofinally, someone that actually understands -> 09 13:24
mib_ac4yxaand locks dont stop criminals, banks dont stop bankrobbers eitherJun 09 13:24
trmancobut nobody gave him a reply yetJun 09 13:24
MinceRyou keep repeating that argument as if it was validJun 09 13:24
DaemonFCMinceR only knows logical fallacies and ad hominem attacksJun 09 13:25
DaemonFChe has the intellect of a rotten turnipJun 09 13:25
MinceRand that was... that's right, an ad hominem attackJun 09 13:25
DaemonFCDRM never stops legal use eitherJun 09 13:26
MinceRexcept for things like playing music after the license servers were closed downJun 09 13:26
DaemonFCwrongJun 09 13:26
MinceRor playing it on a DMP of your choiceJun 09 13:26
DaemonFCwrongJun 09 13:26
splosionSure it does, say for instance if a teacher wants to record a TV documentary to show his students.Jun 09 13:26
DaemonFCyou said it doesn't stop illegal usesJun 09 13:27
DaemonFCso why would it stop any legal uses?Jun 09 13:27
splosionthe official advice from the media companies is to use a camcorder to record the television screen (not a joke)Jun 09 13:27
trmancofedora 11 is outJun 09 13:27
MinceRif you think that's wrong, read  and 09 13:27
mib_ac4yxacaviet emptor, buyer beware, when you purchase something say iPhone song you purchase it under the agreed condition of the same if it contains DRM too bad, that does not give you permission to break the law, just as if you broke the law from driving a car, even if you OWN the care, the law is the law, for everyoneJun 09 13:27
MinceRDaemonFC: most users don't know how to break DRMJun 09 13:27
DaemonFCit's not difficultJun 09 13:28
DaemonFCand there's ways to do it that aren't illegalJun 09 13:28
MinceRsure, avoiding DRMJun 09 13:28
DaemonFCand DRM is deadJun 09 13:28
DaemonFCstick a fork in itJun 09 13:28
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MinceRyou still want it to live, apparentlyJun 09 13:28
DaemonFCno serious music store still uses itJun 09 13:28
DaemonFCit's tabooJun 09 13:28
splosionMinceR: but I think p2p makes that moot. It only takes one person to know how. And more than one person does. When one guy cracks it we all crack it. we are all Borg, nowJun 09 13:29
DaemonFCthe free market defeated DRMJun 09 13:29
MinceRit does, but such use of p2p is illegal tooJun 09 13:29
DaemonFCnot some silly hippies with UNIX beardsJun 09 13:29
DaemonFCharassing Apple storesJun 09 13:29
MinceRso in the end you'll have to break the law to have fair use you're otherwise legally entitled toJun 09 13:29
DaemonFCwhich doesn't matter anymoreJun 09 13:29
MinceRDaemonFC: fail. i'm not a hippy and i don't have a beard.Jun 09 13:29
MinceRguess again.Jun 09 13:29
DaemonFCshow me an album I can't get without DRMJun 09 13:29
DaemonFCMinceRJun 09 13:29
splosionI had a pretty rocking beard till a couple of months ago. Wasn't quite rms, but still pretty bushyJun 09 13:30
DaemonFCif it's stopping me, then name one album I can't buy without DRMJun 09 13:30
DaemonFCotherwise you're full of shitJun 09 13:30
MinceRDaemonFC: i don't care about your albumsJun 09 13:30
DaemonFCso you admit that DRM doesn't stop anyone from doing anything because everything is sold without itJun 09 13:31
DaemonFCyayJun 09 13:31
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splosionbut my girlfriend said to me, "you know that sex we were going to have again, ever?" and the next day the beard was gone. A dark day for bearded men everywhere. ;_;Jun 09 13:31
MinceRno, not everything is sold without itJun 09 13:32
MinceRfor example, movies on your favorite itunesJun 09 13:32
DaemonFCOK, show me where I can't buy an album on CD or in real MP3 filesJun 09 13:32
DaemonFCI don't use iTunesJun 09 13:33
mib_ac4yxathen yout dont buy them !!! gee simple, or buy them and watch them on your Itunes that you purchased it for in the first placeJun 09 13:33
MinceRthere wasn't always that choice because of DRM fans like youJun 09 13:33
MinceRthankfully you've lostJun 09 13:34
MinceRyour beloved DRM bubble has burstJun 09 13:34
mib_ac4yxaim not a DRM fan, ive never seen it as i saidJun 09 13:34
DaemonFCI've never bought anything that uses DRMJun 09 13:34
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: well, you've argued for it tooth and nailJun 09 13:34
DaemonFCso you're back to the ad hominemsJun 09 13:34
mib_ac4yxaI dont care at all about DRM, just like i dont care about locked doors.Jun 09 13:34
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: so you're either a DRM fan or a troll.Jun 09 13:34
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: which one are you?Jun 09 13:34
splosionmib_ac4yxa: I download videos from the BBC's iplayer. They offer non-DRM versions for iPhones. It's just a matter of fooling the site into thinking you're logging on from an iPhone and you're good to go. Downloaded TV shows without DRM and no laws broken. Nice stuff.Jun 09 13:34
DaemonFCand I've never argued in favor of DRMJun 09 13:34
DaemonFCI am against itJun 09 13:34
DaemonFCI do not buy itJun 09 13:34
mib_ac4yxaI have no intension of breaking into the house or stealing somethingJun 09 13:35
MinceRisn't fooling the site into thinking you're logging from a jesusPhone against the WIPO Copyright Treaty/DMCA?Jun 09 13:35
mib_ac4yxaexactly, you can get most anything without DRM it seemsJun 09 13:35
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: so are you a fan of DRM or just a troll?Jun 09 13:35
splosionMinceR: no DMCA in the UKJun 09 13:35
MinceRsplosion: there's an implementation of the WCT, thoughJun 09 13:35
MinceRdunno what it's calledJun 09 13:35
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MinceR 09 13:36
splosionand there's a bit of a loophole in that since the BBC offer non-DRM videos in the first place, then anyone should be able to download them. This is a technicality that has not been filled by any current UK LawJun 09 13:36
MinceRhm, probably technically not illegal yetJun 09 13:36
MinceRWIPO says they've only got a signature but the local law is not in force yetJun 09 13:36
DaemonFCWhy would you be so pompous as to believe that hippies that don't buy anything caused the recording industry to change its mind about DRM/Jun 09 13:36
MinceRobamaa FUDded canada for the sameJun 09 13:37
MinceRDaemonFC: well, what caused it then?Jun 09 13:37
splosioneven if it was I wouldn't really care. The Pirate Party win has shown governments that if they want votes they can't get away with implementing laws that fuck over half their populations anymoreJun 09 13:37
DaemonFCpeople like me that buy non-DRM formatsJun 09 13:37
mib_ac4yxalook I could not care less about DRM, i get it that linux community pinned their hopes on DRM making Linux great but it did not happen, and you know the ONLY people who care about or even KNOW about DRM is  you guys, no one else cares :)Jun 09 13:37
MinceRDaemonFC: did they have a sudden change of heart?Jun 09 13:37
DaemonFCyesJun 09 13:37
MinceRDaemonFC: so the only thing is that you don't label yourself a hippie for doing that but happily label others for the same thing?Jun 09 13:37
MinceRDaemonFC: who's pompous now?Jun 09 13:38
DaemonFCRMS and the Stallmanite Hippie Hordes don't change shitJun 09 13:38
DaemonFCthey just love to hear themselves bitchJun 09 13:38
splosionmib_ac4yxa: what the hell are you talking about?Jun 09 13:38
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: what the hell are you talking about?Jun 09 13:38
mib_ac4yxasorry I cant read for you too !Jun 09 13:38
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: apparently you can't think for yourself either.Jun 09 13:39
mib_ac4yxaIm fine thanks :)Jun 09 13:39
splosionvoting with your wallet is always the best way to get stuff done quicklyJun 09 13:39
splosionthat's what killed DRM imoJun 09 13:39
DaemonFCif DRM'd music doesn't sell, they get the picture and switch to non-DRM'd which is what happenedJun 09 13:40
DaemonFCthe market pulled for that and got itJun 09 13:40
DaemonFCand it's a good thingJun 09 13:40
mib_ac4yxayou have to admit (if your even slightly honest) when DRM came out Linux people made it "The year of the Linux desktop why because DRM" was going to force millions of windows users to linuxJun 09 13:40
DaemonFCbut RMS had nothing to do with itJun 09 13:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Linux: Lean, clean, and green: 09 13:40
mib_ac4yxaJust like Vista "failure" was going toJun 09 13:40
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: you're the first person i hear that "because DRM" argument from.Jun 09 13:40
mib_ac4yxaofcourse not, it was all over the web !Jun 09 13:41
MinceRDaemonFC: guess what, RMS was part of the market that rejected DRMJun 09 13:41
splosionmib_ac4yxa: maybe some did. But I couldn't give a toss about the year of the linux desktop. Linux works great on my desktop and that's all I care about. Most linux users are the same way. It's a vocal minority who say shit like thatJun 09 13:41
DaemonFCno he wasn'tJun 09 13:41
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: no it wasn'tJun 09 13:41
DaemonFCcause he doesn't buy anythingJun 09 13:41
splosionmib_ac4yxa: actually, I'm a Vista reject, tooJun 09 13:41
MinceRDaemonFC: bullshitJun 09 13:42
mib_ac4yxaI dont know where you go MinceR but it was all over BT as wellJun 09 13:42
DaemonFCpeople that don't buy anything anyway staging a boycott does what?Jun 09 13:42
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: BT?Jun 09 13:42
mib_ac4yxatype BNJun 09 13:42
MinceRBitTorrent? British Telecom?Jun 09 13:42
MinceRi don't follow all articles on BNJun 09 13:42
mib_ac4yxatypo on type and yes BN and all the other linux sites as well,Jun 09 13:42
MinceRin any case, BN isn't "all over the web"Jun 09 13:43
mib_ac4yxajust like Vista is going to make millions to move to Linux,Jun 09 13:43
MinceRthe vista fiasco isn't over yetJun 09 13:43
MinceRvista7 isn't even out yetJun 09 13:43
DaemonFCit's made dozens and dozens switch to LinuxJun 09 13:43
splosionmib_ac4yxa: so you're arguing that analysts and opinions turn out to be wrong a lot of the time. big woopJun 09 13:43
mib_ac4yxaOK, ZDNET, slashdow, croclaw, LT, LJ, Cnet and so onJun 09 13:43
MinceRstrangeJun 09 13:44
schestowitzYikes. "Reports of the death of K T Ligesh, 32, come in the wake of the exploitation of a critical vulnerability in HyperVM, a virtualization application made by LXLabs, to wipe out data on 100,000 sites hosted by the UK web hosting firm VAserv."Jun 09 13:44
splosionthe fact is Linux has to impress people on its own merits. Not "it's not as bad as Vista!" that's how Microsoft is advertising Windows 7. That's sucky. Linux doesn't need to do thatJun 09 13:45
splosionif people do, though, so whatJun 09 13:45
MinceRactually, "not as bad as vista or osx" could be enough, coupled with the death of winxpJun 09 13:45
MinceRbut we have more than that :)Jun 09 13:45
mib_ac4yxayes you are right linux does have to impress people on its own merits, and nothing elseJun 09 13:46
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mib_ac4yxait allways reminds me of "dirty politics" when you just bad mouth the opposition instead of saying why you should be elected.Jun 09 13:47
mib_ac4yxaRarly works in politics either.Jun 09 13:47
splosionthere's a chance of that happening with the super duper new netbooks and stuff, seeing as Windows CE is MS's only answer to ARM, and as XP won't be an option anymore. but then it could just turn out to be a big hoohah over nothing. Who knows. I don't care. Linux works great for me and for millions of others round the world. That's enoughJun 09 13:47
MinceRrarely works in politics either, yet you trolls use it all the timeJun 09 13:47
MinceRstrange.Jun 09 13:47
MinceRcould xp ever run on ARM? i thought not.Jun 09 13:48
mib_ac4yxashow me where ive atttacked the quality of anything or anyone here ?Jun 09 13:48
MinceRyou've kept attacking me all the time.Jun 09 13:48
splosionmib_ac4yxa: UK politicians use attack methods all the time. "We'll probably be less corrupt than the last bunch of crooks were if we win!" That's not really much of an exaggeration, sadlyJun 09 13:48
mib_ac4yxaby presenting arguments ? hmm okJun 09 13:48
MinceRif you call ad hominem arguments "arguments", then yesJun 09 13:49
DaemonFCARM is a dead endJun 09 13:49
splosionMinceR: MS could port XP to ARM, but they'd have a hard time convincing all the third party apps to do likewise with their wares.Jun 09 13:49
mib_ac4yxaarguments, reasoning, the law, logic call it what you like, but its not personal attacks, nor is it an attack of any OS or software.Jun 09 13:50
splosionDaemonFC: why is ARM a dead-end?Jun 09 13:50
DaemonFCI've been over that enough timesJun 09 13:50
schestowitzGoogle mentor drowns in swimming pool < >Jun 09 13:50
splosionnot to me!Jun 09 13:50
MinceRnot to me either.Jun 09 13:50
splosionsum it up in a sentence. gwanJun 09 13:51
MinceRif anything is a dead end, then x86 is. :>Jun 09 13:51
DaemonFCit's not x86 compatible is a good startJun 09 13:51
DaemonFCa real good startJun 09 13:51
MinceRARM is a much cleaner design.Jun 09 13:51
DaemonFCthat doesn't matterJun 09 13:51
DaemonFCso was ItanicJun 09 13:51
DaemonFC:PJun 09 13:51
DaemonFCthat was the point of ItanicJun 09 13:51
MinceRitanic was sunk when intel decided they'll only market it for servers, not desktopsJun 09 13:51
MinceRno economy of scale.Jun 09 13:51
MinceRon the other hand, ARM chips are made for mobile phones, which are extremely common.Jun 09 13:52
splosionDaemonFC: not being x86 compatible is a problem for microsoft and its apps, but not really for linuxJun 09 13:52
DaemonFCyeah, cause it doesn't really have much application supportJun 09 13:53
DaemonFCsame reason the Mac could jump so easilyJun 09 13:53
mib_ac4yxaagain, MS can port code just as easily as linux can, im sure they know how to use a compilerJun 09 13:53
MinceRpretty much all of GNU/Linux can be recompiled on ARM.Jun 09 13:53
splosiona quick check of the debian site tells me that they support [alpha][amd64][arm][armel][hppa][i386][ia64][mips][mipsel][powerpc][sparc] that's with everything in the repos too, don't forgetJun 09 13:53
MinceRand it being FLOSS means it's easy to port where that's neededJun 09 13:53
MinceR(adding endianness conversions and stuff if needed)Jun 09 13:54
DaemonFCsame boat as AppleJun 09 13:54
MinceRnope, crApple has always been mostly proprietaryJun 09 13:54
DaemonFCmost of the basic apps come with the systemJun 09 13:54
MinceRonly the owner can recompileJun 09 13:54
splosionhuh. incomplete list. here's the proper one [alpha][amd64][arm][armel][hppa][i386][ia64][mips][mipsel][powerpc][sparc][s390][source][multi-arch]Jun 09 13:54
MinceRalso, emulation wasn't as advanced back thenJun 09 13:54
MinceRcrApple would have an easier time switching nowJun 09 13:55
mib_ac4yxaproptietary guys can recompile tooJun 09 13:55
MinceRthey canJun 09 13:55
MinceRbut not all of them will do so immediatelyJun 09 13:55
MinceRespecially if the company has gone under alreadyJun 09 13:55
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Webhost hack wipes out data for 100,000 sites < >Jun 09 13:55
MinceRor if they've lost the source (it has happened already)Jun 09 13:55
mib_ac4yxayou know only one company needs too to pull the market !Jun 09 13:55
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splosionmib_ac4yxa: microsoft would need a hell of a lot of co-ordination to make sure everything is ported properly. I don't think it could be done. it'd be a disaster. BSODs everywhere. they'd need a lot of time to make sure everything was OKJun 09 13:56
splosiontime by which it could already be pointless to even botherJun 09 13:56
mib_ac4yxaI dont think that much time, if they have not allready done it, im just saying its folly to pin your hopes on MS not entering the market and quickly !!Jun 09 13:57
mib_ac4yxaLike when have they NOT done that in the past ?Jun 09 13:57
splosionthey'd phone Adobe and say "hey port photoshop to arm plox" and adobe would say "fuck you photoshop would run shit on netbooks." And then the masses would try and install it, and fail. horriblyJun 09 13:57
mib_ac4yxaIf you like it comes down to "know your enemy"Jun 09 13:58
mib_ac4yxaand im sure most people who use photoshop would understand that netbooks are not designed for high end graphics artJun 09 13:58
splosionsee all of the "These machines can't play instensive applications such as games!" signs you see nowadays in shops next to all the NetbooksJun 09 13:58
splosionpeople look at them and expect them to be able to do it. people are stupidJun 09 13:58
splosionand if people try and install stuff that BSODs, they're stupid. and lividJun 09 13:59
splosionand will cause a shit-ton of bad pressJun 09 13:59
splosionmicrosoft wants to avoid that. I think it's a good decision for them to stay out of ARM. good for linux, good for microsoft. weirdJun 09 14:00
mib_ac4yxaok, you might be right, but from past experience with MS you're notJun 09 14:01
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: who pins their hopes in m$ not entering the market?Jun 09 14:01
mib_ac4yxaim reading lists of excuses why they wont, as if you expect them not too, if they did not enter the market it would be a first for themJun 09 14:02
MinceRthey'd eventually do so unless their decline gets them firstJun 09 14:02
mib_ac4yxaI mean you guys dont put a BORG mark on gates for nothing !~Jun 09 14:03
splosionthat's slashdotJun 09 14:03
MinceR(they'd eventually realize they just have to take that market all for themselves, but if by then they can't afford it then they can't do anything about it)Jun 09 14:03
MinceRi think the Borg mark is pretty accurate.Jun 09 14:03
splosionmib_ac4yxa: ms will get into the netbook market in general, sure. but they don't like it. the profit margins are slim. for ARM, they're almost non-existentJun 09 14:04
MinceRit's probably a lose-lose situation for them, unless they can kill the ARM market entirelyJun 09 14:04
splosionmicrosoft will support ARM if it turns out to be a huge hit, thoughJun 09 14:04
mib_ac4yxathere you go, so yes, they will enter the market, they will do so quickly and as usual they will dominate itJun 09 14:04
mib_ac4yxaslim times a big number is a big numberJun 09 14:04
MinceRif they get in, they have to spend a lot to port their stuff to ARM and to support it there, but the profit margins are slimJun 09 14:04
MinceRso they might lose on the deal anywayJun 09 14:04
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: who said they'll dominate it?Jun 09 14:05
mib_ac4yxaI would not be surprised if MS embedded division have not allready done itJun 09 14:05
MinceRthey don't really have anything to enter it withJun 09 14:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Contrary to some speculations: KDE On Windows Continues < >Jun 09 14:05
MinceRthe only windows that supports ARM is winCE, which they've already given up on (see the danger/sidekick issue)Jun 09 14:05
splosionmib_ac4yxa: MS have said publicly a few times that at the moment they see Win CE as their answer to ARM.Jun 09 14:05
mib_ac4yxaWho said, show me where they have not entered a market and if not dominate it because a significant playerJun 09 14:05
MinceRthey could push netbsd, but they can't charge for itJun 09 14:05
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MinceRmib_ac4yxa: they've entered the supercomputer market but they're a minor player there, for example.Jun 09 14:06
mib_ac4yxaI know Unix-like OS'es are on alot of servers and super computers and thats greatJun 09 14:06
MinceRthey're also on a lot of embedded devices and desktops/workstationsJun 09 14:06
MinceRalso on laptops and subnotebooks.Jun 09 14:07
mib_ac4yxaIll give you supercompercomputers but they are in the marketJun 09 14:07
MinceRthere's linux everywhere, all that's left is cleaning m$ out of the desktop market.Jun 09 14:07
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splosionmicrosoft's biggest cashcow is the windows and office combo. If they can't make any money selling windows licences because the hardware is so cheap that it makes the cost of the licence untenable, it's hard to see how they're going to competeJun 09 14:08
mib_ac4yxathey also have a decent share of the server market, backoffice market, SCADA (but not the PLC's) market to get them out of tooJun 09 14:09
splosionalthough I'm sure they'll find a wayJun 09 14:09
MinceRthey don't dominate the server market thoughJun 09 14:09
MinceRi don't know what SCADA and backoffice are thoughJun 09 14:09
mib_ac4yxaThey are not in SCADA but the main program that is used is Windows basedJun 09 14:09
MinceRi suspect they're things i'd call "server" :>Jun 09 14:09
mib_ac4yxaServer and DBJun 09 14:10
mib_ac4yxaSCADA  = Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition, water/sewage, power station, electricity, gas, industrial control systemsJun 09 14:11
MinceRi seeJun 09 14:12
MinceRso something i'd lump in with servers :>Jun 09 14:12
mib_ac4yxafar closer to embedded than a serverJun 09 14:13
MinceRoh, i seeJun 09 14:13
MinceRi suspected at least part of it would be embeddedJun 09 14:13
mib_ac4yxaYes, the PLC's (programmable logic controllers) are embedded micros with I/O like relays and sensors, you usually program them in some form of control language and Lader LogicJun 09 14:14
mib_ac4yxaNow days the CPU's are 286/386 200mhz class generallyJun 09 14:15
splosioni've seen some pretty dumb uses of Windows XP before on things I wouldn't really expect to see it onJun 09 14:16
amarsh04QNX is more suitable for a lot of low-level control applications if one wants a single vendorJun 09 14:16
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: the aggregation of data happens in a regular server though, doesn't it?Jun 09 14:17
mib_ac4yxayes the PLC's run real time OS'sJun 09 14:17
splosiona heart monitor in a hospital. With WMP and solitaire and all the rest of installed? SheeeeeshJun 09 14:17
MinceRsplosion: ATMs? :>Jun 09 14:17
MinceRlolJun 09 14:17
splosionMinceR: yeah. I saw an ATM with a big fat error message on it before. The touchscreen still worked, thoughJun 09 14:18
MinceRthere were news of winxp-based ATMs being cracked in masses.Jun 09 14:18
MinceRsadly they didn't say which banks/ATM brands were affected.Jun 09 14:18
mib_ac4yxathe data is sent back to a central system (the supervisory part), that is usually on a dual or quad system and constant backupJun 09 14:18
mib_ac4yxabut they never crash, they run one application they are on UPS's and they are never turned off unless we are there to turn them offJun 09 14:19
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mib_ac4yxabut its a redundant system it would not matter if they did shut off, nothing would change and the  system would operate normally.Jun 09 14:20
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mib_ac4yxaIn fact I did just that for the entire water and sewage treatment and distribution Supervisor system.  Shut it down by mistake !!!Jun 09 14:21
mib_ac4yxafor an entire cityJun 09 14:21
splosionbummerJun 09 14:26
oiaohmNo machine can run for ever.Jun 09 14:30
MinceRwell, i suppose it can survive short breaks without any problemsJun 09 14:31
MinceRthe microcontrollers can probably buffer their data for a while and they can function on their own for a whileJun 09 14:32
splosionI had to use a machine running some weird bespoke version of DOS for a few months a hile back. The thing only ran one app too, but it crashed like crazy. Thankfully it rebooted in about 0.2 seconds after you hit ctrl-alt-delJun 09 14:33
splosions/hile/while/Jun 09 14:33
MinceRlolJun 09 14:33
oiaohmAny correct design of a water treatment systems has a mirror system.Jun 09 14:33
MinceRthat's one way to get high availability, i guessJun 09 14:33
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MinceRif it can reboot itself, that isJun 09 14:33
oiaohmIe half can fail but still have enough volume support.Jun 09 14:34
oiaohmThat way repair work is simpler to perform.Jun 09 14:34
oiaohmProblem is if a crash happens while half is down.Jun 09 14:34
splosionMinceR: the machine wasn't designed to be used with a keyboard. would have sucked if we didn't have one, I guessJun 09 14:35
MinceR:)Jun 09 14:35
oiaohmYep design F)*%^%.   Perfect network theory says 3.Jun 09 14:35
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oiaohmSo there are always 2 in operation.Jun 09 14:35
oiaohmReducing risk of failure to a min.Jun 09 14:36
oiaohmDaemonFC:  Look at this map.   Australia is DVB-T not the same as your limited used USA stuff.  Lot of DVB-T stuff don't need firmware and is pure linux kernel support.Jun 09 14:39
splosionmildly related, digital radio in the UK is awful. All the stations spew out 128kbps. it's a jokeJun 09 14:42
oiaohmYour lucky we don't have any digital radio stations to complain about.Jun 09 14:43
oiaohmCloset we have is ISP provided radio stations.Jun 09 14:43
splosionbroadcast radio is slowly becoming irrelevant nowadays anyway. But I do like to listen to some of the politics or comedy talkshows when I'm in the bath or whateverJun 09 14:44
twitterIt's the Vista Capable fiasco all over again. 09 14:47
twitterM$ is selling "upgrade rights" to the not yet here Vista 7 in June.  They promise Vista 7 by mid October.  Google News ignores the story, ha ha.Jun 09 14:49
DaemonFCJune 26thJun 09 14:50
DaemonFCNewegg is going to have the $50 upgrades tooJun 09 14:50
twitterIt should not be hard for them to push Vista 7 out the door, after all it's just Vista with a few bug fixes, but they can't seem to make Vista 7 actually work.  Love the link to "Damn you Windows 7" 09 14:51
oiaohmThey funny one here DaemonFC.  If you want to caputure non digital you have a trouble getting that section of the card to work.Jun 09 14:51
DaemonFCI've never had any troubleJun 09 14:52
splosionI don't think vista 7 will be so bad as Vista 6. They've had three years to fix the bugs. Vista is somewhat tolerable nowadays. That'll carry over to 7, too. I don't think we'll see the disaster that Vista was.Jun 09 14:52
DaemonFCWindows Media Center only saves to WMV and WMV-HD, but AverMedia Center can do H.264, DivX, and a bunch of othersJun 09 14:53
oiaohmdvb-t cards with analog support.   Common feature with the Linxu drivers is the analog support does not work.Jun 09 14:53
DaemonFCthat's why I use Aver to record stuffJun 09 14:53
splosionmarketing genius, really. Make a spruced up service pack and push it out as a totally new distroJun 09 14:53
DaemonFCVLC can dump to Theora if you really want it toJun 09 14:53
DaemonFCI won't use it thoughJun 09 14:53
Omar87Hello everyone?Jun 09 14:53
splosionI never use VLC for dumping anything. It's always been pretty sketchy in my experience.Jun 09 14:54
oiaohmWindows media center also has the habbit of setting to ntfs instead of pal as we recieve here.  You miss it you end up with black and white on screen too DaemonFC.   You really don't win here.Jun 09 14:54
DaemonFCNTSC you mean?Jun 09 14:55
Omar87God! I really get pissed off every time I read an article about Ubuntu's idiotic, disgusting support for Mono.. ><Jun 09 14:55
oiaohmYep ntscJun 09 14:55
DaemonFCwell, VLC is also decent for converting PAL to NTSCJun 09 14:55
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 14:55
schestowitzSome Ubuntu MOTUs feel uncomfortable now because of Mono. They comment in BN and they revisit the issues.Jun 09 14:55
oiaohmWe have to do the other way DaemonFCJun 09 14:55
DaemonFCI've stripped region codes, MackeralVision, and CSS off most of my DVDsJun 09 14:56
DaemonFC:PJun 09 14:56
oiaohmReally you USA guys are so far screwed with digital tv.Jun 09 14:56
oiaohmYou just don't have the population using them to get good open source drivers.Jun 09 14:56
splosionffmpeg does good PAL/NTSC conversionsJun 09 14:56
DaemonFCyeah, the broadband internet situation is worse thoughJun 09 14:57
DaemonFCthe government gives telcos and cable companies billions of dollars to roll out fiberJun 09 14:57
DaemonFCand instead they give it to their management as bonusesJun 09 14:57
DaemonFCand oversell the bandwidth they haveJun 09 14:57
oiaohmWe don't have many cable companies here.Jun 09 14:57
oiaohmMostly because our ISP's compete with them.Jun 09 14:57
twitterHi, Omar87Jun 09 14:57
DaemonFCthere really isn't much broadband competition in the USJun 09 14:58
DaemonFCI had considered actually paying MORE money for a slower WIMAX connectionJun 09 14:58
DaemonFCso I could stop paying ComcastJun 09 14:58
oiaohmIe you sign up with them to make it nicer you get so many on demard channels.Jun 09 14:58
DaemonFC:PJun 09 14:58
Omar87schestowitz: Good, but not enough. More effort should be placed in order to convince the Ubuntu community the Mono is like a trojan horse to the Linux kernel.Jun 09 14:58
oiaohmAt no charge.Jun 09 14:58
DaemonFCI'm not too thrilled with ComcastJun 09 14:58
DaemonFCthe lengths I had to go through to uncripple Bittorrent back when they were using Sandvine was totally unacceptableJun 09 14:59
Omar87twitter: Hey there! :)Jun 09 14:59
oiaohmOmar87: so/so.   We need the gnome vala project complete.Jun 09 14:59
splosionOmar87: there's no danger of getting mono into the kernel just yet. Gnome is the thing that's in dangerJun 09 14:59
DaemonFCand they crippled it no matter what you were downloadingJun 09 14:59
DaemonFCeven if it was a Linux discJun 09 14:59
oiaohmGnome may not be at as much risk as lot of people fear.Jun 09 14:59
DaemonFCnow I just have a 250 gig /month capJun 09 14:59
oiaohmvala is a releated language it C#Jun 09 14:59
Omar87oiaohm: What's vala?Jun 09 15:00
oiaohmIf vala can be got working.  Most of the best .net applications are C# so migration away might be simple.Jun 09 15:00
oiaohm  << Omar87Jun 09 15:00
oiaohmIf vala sticks to time table it will be operational by end of year.Jun 09 15:02
MinceRvala is basically c with builtin GObject support :)Jun 09 15:03
oiaohmWith syntax like C#Jun 09 15:03
oiaohmYep all the nice bits of C# without the mono overhead.Jun 09 15:04
MinceRdoes it have all the features of the C#/.net object system already?Jun 09 15:04
oiaohmexception handling is still missing.Jun 09 15:05
oiaohmThat C# coders are use to abusing.Jun 09 15:05
MinceRicJun 09 15:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 13 Must-Have Add-ons To Strengthen Firebug: 09 15:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Garry Kasparov on the chess-penis interface: 09 15:05
splosionhahahahaJun 09 15:06
splosioncheck this out 09 15:06
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MinceRlolJun 09 15:09
splosion"The only difference between each Word file is its file size, because it will look a bit odd if your 10 page term paper is only 1k in size! Yes, we thought of everything! We guarantee and stand by our product!"Jun 09 15:09
twitterVista 7 failure log is updated 09 15:09
twitterVista 7 hype log is updated 09 15:09
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oiaohmHmm I wish I had though of that one.   It is so temping to put internatlly created stuffed files up for sale.   And sell it to any dumb idiot who will buy.Jun 09 15:10
twitterCounter to "It's Better with Windows" - "It's Broken with Windows"Jun 09 15:11
DaemonFChmmmmJun 09 15:11
DaemonFCoiaohm: DVD audio track is 192k MP3?Jun 09 15:11
MinceR"It's Worse With Windows"Jun 09 15:11
MinceR"It's Better Without Windows"Jun 09 15:11
DaemonFCI knew it was MP3, jsut not that they used 192kJun 09 15:11
MinceR"I Can't Believe It's Not MP3!"Jun 09 15:12
MinceRi thought DVD audio was Meridian Lossless Packing or one of the movie sound systems (Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS or other)Jun 09 15:12
DaemonFCMP3 is often imitated, never duplicated.Jun 09 15:13
DaemonFCJust ask all the imitationsJun 09 15:13
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 15:13
MinceR(the latter is also for DVD video audio tracks)Jun 09 15:13
MinceRsubject to (l)imitations?Jun 09 15:13
DaemonFCbetween Microsoft, Apple, and the open source people, nothing has managed to do betterJun 09 15:13
MinceRor so you believe because your ipoo can't play anything better.Jun 09 15:13
DaemonFCI've encoded to MP3, it takes too high a bitrate to achieve transparencyJun 09 15:14
oiaohm  << Upto  192k DaemonFCJun 09 15:14
DaemonFCeven if you use Aotuv, which is better than libvorbis at leastJun 09 15:14
oiaohmIf its 5.1 disk its a lot less.Jun 09 15:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Fedora Linux 11 Released !!!: 09 15:15
twittergotta go, bbl :)Jun 09 15:15
DaemonFCVorbis takes too many bits to be transparent, WMA sounds like shit *and the license sucksJun 09 15:15
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DaemonFCthat leaves MP3 and MP4Jun 09 15:16
oiaohm  << Most are this  too DaemonFCJun 09 15:16
oiaohmSo its a lossless codec.Jun 09 15:16
MinceRDaemonFC: i don't see where you took the MP3 part from on DVD audioJun 09 15:16
MinceR"Audio is stored on the disc in Linear PCM format, which is either uncompressed or losslessly compressed with Meridian Lossless Packing."Jun 09 15:16
DaemonFCwell, I figured that they could choose between MP3 and PCMJun 09 15:17
DaemonFCbut the more space you use for audio the less you have for video streamJun 09 15:17
MinceRwell, even CD audio is lossless, it's probably not a good idea to introduce a high-end format with lossy packingJun 09 15:17
DaemonFCso to have any useful amount of data, they'd need to use MP3Jun 09 15:17
MinceRwait a minute, are we talking about DVD Audio or the audio stream of DVD Video?Jun 09 15:17
DaemonFCaudio stream of a DVD videoJun 09 15:18
MinceRthat's an entirely different matter.Jun 09 15:18
MinceR 09 15:18
MinceR"The audio data on a DVD movie can be PCM, DTS, MPEG-1 Audio Layer II (MP2), or Dolby Digital (AC-3) format."Jun 09 15:18
DaemonFCDVD audio discs sound a lot better than a CDJun 09 15:18
MinceRafaik all those are lossy except for PCM.Jun 09 15:18
DaemonFCthey can exceed CD's limitationsJun 09 15:19
DaemonFCCD is 16-bit and 44.1 Khz usuallyJun 09 15:19
DaemonFCDVD audio can be 24 -bit and 96 KhzJun 09 15:20
MinceRyes, they can use higher sampling rates and resolutionsJun 09 15:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @AstralKnight: Fedora Linux 11 Released !!!: 09 15:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] So gajos da #sapoadsl devem andar a gozar comigo e com as outras pessoas da minha "cidade"Jun 09 15:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] os*Jun 09 15:20
DaemonFCit helps a little if you have a fairly nice sound systemJun 09 15:20
splosion96Khz. Surely that's only useful if you're some sort of genitically modified superdogJun 09 15:20
DaemonFCsplosion: I figure that the cost of DVD's vs CDs fully justifies the switchJun 09 15:21
DaemonFCthat would up the price what? 20-30 cents?Jun 09 15:21
oiaohm96khz recording seams to work better with subs for some reason.Jun 09 15:21
DaemonFCI'd pay it :)Jun 09 15:21
trmancololJun 09 15:21
oiaohmOk the rest you cannot really pick it.Jun 09 15:21
trmancodents in portuguese, how about that :-PJun 09 15:21
DaemonFCwho cares? that works out to like an extra 2 cents per trackJun 09 15:22
DaemonFCvs an audio CDJun 09 15:22
DaemonFCeven Walmart has a few Audio DVDsJun 09 15:22
oiaohm24 bit extends into the sub range better as well.Jun 09 15:22
DaemonFCusually bundled as bonus discs in collectors sets *sigh*Jun 09 15:22
oiaohmMajor difference is how well the subs will feel.Jun 09 15:23
DaemonFCoiaohm: whenever I have to lossy encode something I took from vinyl, I go for MP4Jun 09 15:23
oiaohmIf you don't have sub woffers might as well just place a cd.Jun 09 15:23
DaemonFCjust because it seems to handle it betterJun 09 15:23
DaemonFCCD's I feed to MP3 thoughJun 09 15:23
DaemonFCa lot of stereos will play MP3sJun 09 15:24
oiaohmThere was a error with the location of the 16 bit sounds on cd.Jun 09 15:24
DaemonFCbut only a few play MP4 so farJun 09 15:24
oiaohmThey tested everything we could hear.Jun 09 15:24
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oiaohmSo the 16 bits record only that.Jun 09 15:24
*neighborlee ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 15:24
oiaohmLeaving out what we can feel.Jun 09 15:24
DaemonFCoiaohm: I've foung that by commanding LAME to not encode anything above 19.7 Khz, it will use the bits I allocate it much more effectivelyJun 09 15:25
DaemonFCthe way it defaults in 3.98 and 3.99, it doesn't piss around with much above that point anywayJun 09 15:25
DaemonFC3.97 was incredibly buggy thoughJun 09 15:26
DaemonFCI hate re-encoding everything every few versions of LAMEJun 09 15:26
MinceRalso, they aimed for typical humans, perhaps even typical human adultsJun 09 15:26
DaemonFCbut just another reason to have the CD handyJun 09 15:26
MinceRthere can be deviations from that in hearing ability.Jun 09 15:26
MinceRfor example, i can apparently hear those ringtones only teens are supposed to hear, despite my age.Jun 09 15:27
DaemonFCyour hearing does not improve as you get olderJun 09 15:27
DaemonFCactually, most parts of the body don't approve with ageJun 09 15:27
DaemonFC:PJun 09 15:27
DaemonFCso it doesn't exactly give me confidence that all the test subjects in those listening tests are in their 30s and 40sJun 09 15:28
fewaDaemonFC, you did not listen to what he saidJun 09 15:28
DaemonFCit's why I have NEVER encoded anything at 128kJun 09 15:28
oiaohmAll those ring tones I am not mean to be able to hear I can hear two ways.Jun 09 15:29
oiaohmOne is my ears and one is a plastic cd case threw feel,Jun 09 15:29
neighborleeDaemonFC, speak for yourself <ha>Jun 09 15:29
oiaohmReally I don't know why a plastic cd case would be the right size to pick it up.Jun 09 15:29
neighborleehumor injection point 'Jun 09 15:29
DaemonFCMinceR's dog may hear the differenceJun 09 15:29
DaemonFCbut that's not being fair to the dog's MinceRJun 09 15:30
DaemonFC:PJun 09 15:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora 11 is out. 09 15:30
MinceRDaemonFC: that's true but it might have not degraded as much as it's expected toJun 09 15:30
MinceRand it might have started out better than averageJun 09 15:30
DaemonFCMinceR: Everyone is differentJun 09 15:30
MinceRindeedJun 09 15:30
DaemonFCsome people smoke for 60 years and never get lung cancerJun 09 15:31
DaemonFCsome people never smoke and get lung cancerJun 09 15:31
DaemonFC:PJun 09 15:31
MinceRalso, we've shown that younger people could hear sounds older ones can't... but there are things older people might notice and younger ones wouldn'tJun 09 15:31
DaemonFCnow you're geting into statisticsJun 09 15:31
oiaohmI can annoying hear at 21000 to about 22000 due to a stuff up when I had a ear operation creating a sound converter back into normal range.Jun 09 15:31
MinceR(something you learn about music as you listen to it)Jun 09 15:31
oiaohmSo yes some dog whisles really bug me.Jun 09 15:31
MinceRso they should test on a wide range of ages.Jun 09 15:32
MinceRbut anyway, we're probably going to get a natural progression of improvement, regardless of what the capabilities of our ears are. :)Jun 09 15:32
DaemonFCI generally can hear a slight difference between the CD and LAME V 3 (~160), but can't usually hear any difference between the CD and LAME V 2 (~192)Jun 09 15:32
DaemonFCI suppose that puts me at above average hearingJun 09 15:32
DaemonFCsince those are supposed to be transparent around 128kJun 09 15:32
oiaohmNot really.Jun 09 15:33
DaemonFChow do you figure?Jun 09 15:33
oiaohmMP3 throws away bits.Jun 09 15:33
DaemonFCaudiotiry masking, yesJun 09 15:33
oiaohmIf it throws away bits you notice you detect it.Jun 09 15:33
DaemonFCpsychological trickJun 09 15:33
MinceRi wouldn't call it "transparent", considering it uses a psychoacoustic model.Jun 09 15:33
DaemonFCthat lets it discard lots of the stream with little noticeable differenceJun 09 15:34
DaemonFCwhich is pretty coolJun 09 15:34
oiaohmYep but it don't always get it right.Jun 09 15:34
DaemonFC*auditoryJun 09 15:34
oiaohmWhen it does not you detect it.Jun 09 15:34
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oiaohmCatch is different people will detect different faults.Jun 09 15:34
DaemonFCthe first VBR algorithms were god awfulJun 09 15:34
DaemonFCbut they've gotten extremely goodJun 09 15:34
oiaohmMore often than not in the section of the music they most love.Jun 09 15:35
DaemonFCwe're talking 10 years ago was when you never wanted variable bitrateJun 09 15:35
oiaohmYou would be supprised how bad you can damage a track in sections people hate and they will not notice.Jun 09 15:35
oiaohmI have gone as far as cutting them completely out.Jun 09 15:35
DaemonFCoiaohm: It's easy to watch the stream's bitrate in real time next to a spectrogram and see why the VBR algorithm is doing what it is doingJun 09 15:36
DaemonFCand LAME's is generally very goodJun 09 15:36
trmanco 09 15:36
oiaohmNothing perfect.Jun 09 15:36
oiaohmEven lossless digital has already lost some bits.Jun 09 15:37
DaemonFCoiaohm: If you want it to never be wrong, you could use CBR of 320k and bloat the file terriblyJun 09 15:37
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 15:37
mib_ac4yxaYes MinceR the PLC micros control everything the supervisor computer just monitors and allows settings to be changed, but  its a fail safe design so no matter what fails there are limits and protections in place so no damage can be doneJun 09 15:37
MinceRthe good thing about lossless digital is that you've lost a little bit of info when you digitized and from that point nothing else will be lost foreverJun 09 15:38
MinceRas your equipment improves, you'll get closer to perfectly replicating the data that was savedJun 09 15:39
MinceReventually it will probably get perfect (the errors stay within the resolution at which it was sampled)Jun 09 15:39
mib_ac4yxathats true assuming your media stays intactJun 09 15:39
MinceRerror correction is possibleJun 09 15:39
DaemonFCwell, the point of VBR MP3 is that it's really really good considering that you've now got the file size to about 1/6th to 1/8th the size of the WAV/AIFF sourceJun 09 15:40
MinceRas long as it's readable, you can copy it and keep the data foreverJun 09 15:40
MinceR(except CD audio handles this really negligently)Jun 09 15:40
MinceR(so i'd recommend against CD audio)Jun 09 15:40
DaemonFCin other words, if I can shove 8 times as many albums on my portable and not really lose *that much* quality, then it's goodJun 09 15:40
DaemonFCas long as I have a master copy, everything is fineJun 09 15:40
mib_ac4yxathats true but error correction can only guess at the lost data, its does degrade the quality (mabey imeasurably though)Jun 09 15:40
MinceRi think the point of lossy compression is that you can stuff more music on storage devices you can take with yourself on the goJun 09 15:40
DaemonFCand they can make new encoders or formats all they wantJun 09 15:41
MinceRbut i'd expect that to lose significance eventuallyJun 09 15:41
DaemonFCMinceR: Which is what I saidJun 09 15:41
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: not if it's done properly.Jun 09 15:41
MinceRDaemonFC: right.Jun 09 15:41
DaemonFCcomputer hard drives are beyond the point of caring about file sizeJun 09 15:41
mib_ac4yxaIt's yet to be seen how long CD's and DVD's will last , i wonder if it's 100 years to what ?Jun 09 15:41
DaemonFCbut portables aren't yetJun 09 15:41
MinceRpretty much.Jun 09 15:41
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: depends on whether it's pressed or recordableJun 09 15:42
MinceRrecordable CD-s and DVD-s are horrible.Jun 09 15:42
DaemonFCMinceR: I had considered getting a 2 TB driveJun 09 15:42
DaemonFCjust to store everything as WAVEJun 09 15:42
MinceRi've got 2 1TB external HDDs alreadyJun 09 15:42
DaemonFCtotally hedonisticJun 09 15:42
mib_ac4yxaSure, I guess your talking about a correct gold, physicaly pressed CD or DVD that would probably last a very long timeJun 09 15:42
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 15:42
MinceRi've switched from archiving to DVD+R to archiving to USB external HDD-s.Jun 09 15:42
splosionin a few years, terabytes will cost pennies. can't waitJun 09 15:42
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mib_ac4yxame tooJun 09 15:43
DaemonFCI remember being on Napster and overrunning my 4 GB hard drive :)Jun 09 15:44
mib_ac4yxaits also a real cheap file server, to plug in a 1TB HD into the USB portJun 09 15:44
DaemonFCso I went out and got a 20 GB driveJun 09 15:44
DaemonFCseemed massive at the timeJun 09 15:44
Trojan1223Hi again!Jun 09 15:44
DaemonFCironically by suing Napster the RIAA gave file sharing a lot of free publicityJun 09 15:45
schestowitz"Another aspect which is often overlooked is technology infection. What I mean is that certain commercial interests abuse a standard to mandate specific services. This is the scenario here and concerns standards on a different level." PCMan and the Desktop standard process < >Jun 09 15:45
mib_ac4yxafirst HD i ever got was 5MegaBytes !Jun 09 15:45
DaemonFCand 11 years later has still failed to shut it downJun 09 15:45
neighborleesplosion, and you will just want whatever its technically hot and new.. so its  semi moot ;)Jun 09 15:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Does the European Commission protects Microsoft lobbyists from the public light?: 09 15:45
neighborleetypically anywayJun 09 15:45
DaemonFCevery time they find a way to sting, the protocols evolve to resist themJun 09 15:45
MinceRlike people say, "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it"Jun 09 15:46
DaemonFCater Napster went down, WinMX was my favoriteJun 09 15:46
DaemonFCbut they finally killed that tooJun 09 15:46
DaemonFCI never really much liked Fast Track or GnutellaJun 09 15:46
DaemonFCBit Torrent is really niceJun 09 15:47
MinceRwhen the weakness of napster became apparent, i switched to GnutellaJun 09 15:47
MinceRwaitJun 09 15:47
MinceRi'm not sure if i switched to Gnutella or FastTrack firstJun 09 15:47
DaemonFCI ran my own Napster serverJun 09 15:47
DaemonFCtil I got a cease and desist orderJun 09 15:47
MinceRi think it was Gnutella and then bothJun 09 15:47
DaemonFCNapster was a very light system, very little overheadJun 09 15:48
MinceRthen eDonkey with all the bells and whistles via mldonkey; then BTJun 09 15:48
splosionneighborlee: that's true. I've been putting off buying a new hd for months because of the rate of expansion. I'll probably be thinking about waiting a bit longer as I hand over the moneyJun 09 15:48
DaemonFCyou could run a decent Napster server on a Pentium 3 with 128 megs of RAMJun 09 15:48
DaemonFCand a DSL lineJun 09 15:48
MinceRyes, napster was very efficient except for being hard to attackJun 09 15:48
MinceRit was very easy to shut down.Jun 09 15:48
neighborleesplosion, same here basicallyJun 09 15:48
zer0c00lfor me gnutella never connects to ultrapeers :(Jun 09 15:49
MinceRhm, i'm not sure how much more resilient BT is, aside from being able to use multiple trackers.Jun 09 15:49
DaemonFCI used to be one of the admins on Imperial Fleet :PJun 09 15:49
MinceR(centralized server for searching, p2p data transfer mediated by the server)Jun 09 15:49
oiaohmBT is really not that resilient.Jun 09 15:50
MinceRi never got into WinMX, saw it on some windows machines at college but never used itJun 09 15:50
oiaohmMajor thing is the encrypted transfers.Jun 09 15:50
MinceRsame with AudioGalaxy.Jun 09 15:50
oiaohmIn theory someone could toxic dose a BT with matching checksums.Jun 09 15:50
oiaohmBasically be a seed with the idea of destorying the torrent.Jun 09 15:51
mib_ac4yxaa bad seed eh :)Jun 09 15:52
mib_ac4yxainteresting idea thoughJun 09 15:52
oiaohmYou would not need to take down the trackers to do that.Jun 09 15:53
oiaohmJust feed enough crap into them to make them basically useless.Jun 09 15:53
MinceRif you have enough peers, you could hamper the download of fragments to an arbitrary extent.Jun 09 15:54
MinceRor you mean a collision attack?Jun 09 15:54
DaemonFCholy crap, this is 60.6 megs as a FLAC :PJun 09 15:54
Trojan1223Hey Oiaohm. Remember me?Jun 09 15:54
oiaohmchecksum collisions MinceR.Jun 09 15:54
MinceR(though in practice that would probably do the same thing)Jun 09 15:54
DaemonFC(The Call of Ktulu)Jun 09 15:54
mib_ac4yxawell if you picked something that had no seeds, you can be the prime seed and load whatever you want on thereJun 09 15:54
MinceR(since you'd have peers with correct data also sending parts and the result would probably be a random mix, resulting in a different checksum -- unless i'm misunderstanding something about BT)Jun 09 15:55
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: as long as it matches the hashes in the .torrent fileJun 09 15:55
DaemonFCthis would be a good challenge for an encoder face off tooJun 09 15:55
DaemonFClots of random and high frequency stuffJun 09 15:55
oiaohmDepends on how good of a collision you could cause MinceRJun 09 15:56
mib_ac4yxaim not too familiar with p2p protocols but i expect it would be some table of file block segments  and  simple TCP/IP between peers.Jun 09 15:56
oiaohmSome people would be getting perfect passes yet not working files.Jun 09 15:56
mib_ac4yxaif there where multiple seeders yes,Jun 09 15:57
MinceRis there an overall hash for a torrent?Jun 09 15:57
oiaohmIts the weakness of checksums you can always hit them.Jun 09 15:57
oiaohmEven stacked hashs.Jun 09 15:57
oiaohmThe hard bit is generating them.Jun 09 15:57
oiaohmSo yes you could have the overall hash pass.Jun 09 15:57
oiaohmYet have a mixture of correct and incorrect.Jun 09 15:58
oiaohmIt would cause complete chaos in a bittorrent network.Jun 09 15:58
mib_ac4yxaI would expect the checksums for the torrent would be on each packet of the file, you simply get on the "need" list for ones you dont have and "Have" list for the ones you do ?Jun 09 15:58
oiaohmYep the two levels of bit torrent chechsumsJun 09 15:58
mib_ac4yxaif its done on a packet  level it would be hard to get aroundJun 09 15:59
MinceRbut i'd expect that torrents with SHA-512 hashes would appear then. :>Jun 09 15:59
oiaohmDoes not matter the checksum.Jun 09 15:59
MinceRit would probably prevent redistribution of garbageJun 09 15:59
oiaohmEvery checksum can be colided if you have a large enough database to search.Jun 09 15:59
MinceRSHA-512 would mean a ridiculously large databaseJun 09 16:00
oiaohmI said theory.Jun 09 16:00
MinceR:)Jun 09 16:00
oiaohmI did not say practaical.Jun 09 16:00
oiaohmIn theory you can bring it down completely.Jun 09 16:00
DaemonFCheh, WMA is murdering this streamJun 09 16:01
DaemonFCjust killing itJun 09 16:01
DaemonFCI might make a sample out of a section of this trackJun 09 16:01
schestowitzMinceR: your friend speaks: 09 16:01
MinceRDaemonFC: is it throwing chairs at it?Jun 09 16:01
schestowitzSo I'm speechless here..Jun 09 16:01
MinceRschestowitz: :)Jun 09 16:01
DaemonFCit's throwing tables tooJun 09 16:01
DaemonFCand gouging out pieces of the wall and throwing those tooJun 09 16:02
schestowitzMinceR: his dribble slowed down, fortunatelyJun 09 16:02
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@ has left #boycottnovell ("Bye")Jun 09 16:02
DaemonFCI had to shut it down to protect me brainJun 09 16:02
DaemonFC*myJun 09 16:02
MinceRDaemonFC: zomg, it's SuperBallmer!Jun 09 16:02
DaemonFCI'm going to make a sample of thisJun 09 16:03
DaemonFCone of the high frequency guitar sectionsJun 09 16:03
DaemonFCit's like the guitar is out of tuneJun 09 16:04
DaemonFCwhen you play the WMA versionJun 09 16:04
DaemonFCand it uses more bits in the stream than MP3 doesJun 09 16:05
mib_ac4yxaya gotta wonder about a mac users complaining that Ubuntu is too much like windows for him :)Jun 09 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] The FreeBSD Project: numbers and statistics 09 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 10 million downloads of Joomla (and counting) 09 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] XtraDB: InnoDB on Steroids: 09 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] SPOTTED: Linux notebooks with ARM CPUs: 09 16:05
DaemonFCI'm going to make a 30 second sample of the FLAC, the WMA, and the LAME MP3Jun 09 16:06
schestowitzHeh. BN made CNETJun 09 16:07
MinceRmib_ac4yxa: well, it isn't exactly like macos, therefore it _must_ be like windows!Jun 09 16:08
MinceRasay drank all of the kool-aidJun 09 16:09
schestowitzHe doesn't do LinuxJun 09 16:10
schestowitzToo hard for him to use Synaptic or somethingJun 09 16:10
MinceRand it shows.Jun 09 16:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Wave is Wikis 25 years later, not Email Well, but it has the Google logoJun 09 16:10
schestowitzhe used SUSE briefly while at NovellJun 09 16:10
MinceRyeah, the difficulty starts with having to use the right mouse buttonJun 09 16:10
schestowitzIt says more than anything something 'bout SUSEJun 09 16:10
MinceRhe has to look because he doesn't know the difference between his index finger and his middle finger.Jun 09 16:10
schestowitzLOLJun 09 16:11
schestowitzRight mouse buttonJun 09 16:11
schestowitzWTF is *that*?Jun 09 16:11
MinceRwell, it's that old crApple studyJun 09 16:11
schestowitzLike one handJun 09 16:11
MinceRit's said that they're using one-button mice because they did a study and they've seen that the users looked to see which button to pressJun 09 16:11
schestowitzI guess it's enough to cherish that Apple monument ;-)Jun 09 16:11
MinceRi wonder where they've found such idiotsJun 09 16:11
schestowitzWhere's that animated gif again?Jun 09 16:11
oiaohmHmm I must be annoying a USA person I just caught one impersonating me on a website.Jun 09 16:11
oiaohmEven posted my email address.Jun 09 16:12
schestowitzoiaohm: means you do wellJun 09 16:12
schestowitzDon't be discouraged by itJun 09 16:12
MinceR(animated) 09 16:12
MinceRthat's the oneJun 09 16:12
mib_ac4yxaive been using computers for a very long time, but ive used a MAC for about 1 hours total, and I was very unimpressedJun 09 16:12
oiaohmWho every they are better own up to it.Jun 09 16:12
oiaohmInside the next 48 hours.Jun 09 16:13
*neonfloss has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 09 16:13
oiaohmThere ISP records allocated IP's.Jun 09 16:13
MinceRi've used osx for a short time and found it severely lacking in quite obvious waysJun 09 16:13
oiaohmIe one nuked internet account incomming.Jun 09 16:13
MinceRif the self-appointed "usability experts" at crApple had enough brainpower to interpret Fitts' law, they wouldn't have put the menubar at the top of the screen.Jun 09 16:14
MinceRbblJun 09 16:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft counters Chinese snooping plans: < > As one evil empire to another...Jun 09 16:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Windows 7 will not jolt the PC market: 09 16:15
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 09 16:15
mib_ac4yxalets hope that chinese things is something MS succeeds in, and FOSS should support it as well.Jun 09 16:17
schestowitztrmanco: Those two fudzilla articles are actually friendly to MSJun 09 16:17
trmancoso?Jun 09 16:18
schestowitzWell.. :-)Jun 09 16:18
schestowitzDidn't complainJun 09 16:18
trmancololJun 09 16:18
schestowitzJust thought I maybe missed s/tJun 09 16:18
schestowitzIn case there was a way of interpreting this differentlyJun 09 16:18
schestowitzIt's easier to make the case with supportive evidenceJun 09 16:19
schestowitzE.g. I could write lots about the gates rel. to the Chinese rulers, but without some article concurring with this it would be just jerking off old argumentsJun 09 16:19
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft's Unwelcome Firefox Support: 09 16:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Will mysql is pried away from Sun's hand? Drizzle, State of Testing 09 16:20
trmancololJun 09 16:20
trmancoyet another linkJun 09 16:20
mib_ac4yxawhat to me is more of a worry is what that law will do to affect FOSS OS's who will also be required to include such code. but how ?Jun 09 16:21
schestowitz 09 16:21
schestowitz patrick_darcy - Subject: he [Miguel] never stops ( Jun 9, 2009, 04:50:00 )  Jun 09 16:21
schestowitz"surely microsoft must be paying himJun 09 16:22
schestowitzor paying him off.Jun 09 16:22
schestowitzIf u want to get warts use gnome.Jun 09 16:22
schestowitzif u want to not get warts use KDE."Jun 09 16:22
schestowitzNovell pays himJun 09 16:22
schestowitzNovell is funded by Microsoft nowJun 09 16:22
schestowitzSo yet, Microsoft funnels a lot of money to Novell employeesJun 09 16:22
trmancowhat are warts?Jun 09 16:22
schestowitzmib_ac4yxa: which ones?Jun 09 16:23
schestowitztrmanco: like verrucasJun 09 16:23
mib_ac4yxaany Operating used in ChinaJun 09 16:23
mib_ac4yxaOperating SystemJun 09 16:23
schestowitzHmmmmmm... 09 16:24
trmancoschestowitz, I fail to know what "verrucas" areJun 09 16:24
schestowitzDOn't watch before dinnerJun 09 16:24
trmancoewJun 09 16:24
schestowitzmib_ac4yxa: a mixture. Depends what the leaders want, tooJun 09 16:24
trmancoI seeJun 09 16:24
schestowitzThey migrate Internet Cafe to their mysterious LinuxJun 09 16:24
*_Hicham_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 16:25
schestowitztrmanco: did you see who wrote that DB article?Jun 09 16:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] xPUD 0.9 released: 09 16:25
schestowitzJeremy.. from Yahoo.Jun 09 16:25
_Hicham_Hi All!Jun 09 16:25
schestowitzYoJun 09 16:25
mib_ac4yxawhat about if you are given a binary blob and told to incorporate it into your OSJun 09 16:25
mib_ac4yxaI doubt they will give you the source code for their spywareJun 09 16:26
_Hicham_mib_ac4yxa : we will put it in ur assJun 09 16:26
_Hicham_:-DJun 09 16:26
trmancoschestowitz, yes, but his name means nothing to meJun 09 16:26
mib_ac4yxalets hope its a small one !!!!Jun 09 16:26
schestowitzWe've just made LT's front pageJun 09 16:26
_Hicham_where is DaemonFC?Jun 09 16:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: bad ass RFID Jun 09 16:27
trmancooh, wowJun 09 16:27
trmancohe is a sql guru I seeJun 09 16:27
trmancomysql*Jun 09 16:27
trmanco 09 16:27
schestowitzOne of the main Yahoo peopleJun 09 16:27
schestowitzTHE free software person back then... for Yahoo!Jun 09 16:28
trmancoI seeJun 09 16:28
schestowitzHmmmmmm.. never see this before: 09 16:28
trmancowtf, open source app store?who is funding thisJun 09 16:28
trmanco 09 16:28
schestowitzGary to appeal again: 09 16:29
schestowitzWhat a waste of court time.. they should go after the Big Criminals alreadyJun 09 16:30
schestowitzThose criminals occasionally visit LondonJun 09 16:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] OpenX battles Google for online ad cash: 09 16:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Novell ponders "open-source apps store" : 09 16:30
schestowitzThey can easily handcuff them and press allegationsJun 09 16:30
schestowitzOpenX seems like a faker to mJun 09 16:30
schestowitzThey have "open" in the sameJun 09 16:31
DaemonFCamong the lossy codecs, mp3, Vorbis, and MP4 all sound fairly good at ~130k, and WMA sticks out like a sore thumbJun 09 16:31
schestowitzLike OpenBearTrapJun 09 16:31
schestowitzOpenTortureJun 09 16:31
DaemonFCschestowitz: 09 16:31
schestowitzOpenGutsJun 09 16:31
schestowitzOpenRactumJun 09 16:31
schestowitzOpen, open, open...Jun 09 16:31
schestowitzThey try to ride the waveJun 09 16:31
schestowitzThey cheapen open source in the processJun 09 16:32
DaemonFCI encoded them all at ~130k with the latest Lame, Nero AAC, Windows Media 9.2, and Vorbis 1.2Jun 09 16:32
mib_ac4yxaopen woundJun 09 16:32
schestowitz*ercJun 09 16:32
DaemonFCif you look at a spectrogram, it's obvious that WMA is distorting the mid range frequenciesJun 09 16:32
DaemonFCjust from lookingJun 09 16:32
schestowitzWe need to get back to FreeJun 09 16:32
schestowitzBut free means "cheap"Jun 09 16:32
schestowitzLibre..Jun 09 16:32
trmancoopenx is freeJun 09 16:32
schestowitzLiberty sofwtare some proposedJun 09 16:32
schestowitztrmanco: in what sense?Jun 09 16:33
trmancoschestowitz, I'm checking that oneJun 09 16:33
trmanco:-PJun 09 16:33
trmancoI'm not sure what license it hasJun 09 16:33
schestowitz.."through the open-source developer community.."Jun 09 16:33
schestowitzWhen you see the dash you knowJun 09 16:33
schestowitzIt's not OK for them to use the proper trademarkJun 09 16:33
schestowitzopen-source thinkingJun 09 16:33
trmancoit's GPL'edJun 09 16:33
DaemonFCWMA still suffers the same bug that pissed me off about it 10 years agoJun 09 16:33
schestowitzAhJun 09 16:33
trmancoso it freeJun 09 16:33
schestowitzOKJun 09 16:34
schestowitzSaaSJun 09 16:34
_Hicham_DaemonFC : go write a new codecJun 09 16:34
trmancoOpenX is published under the GNU General Public License and is thus free software. In addition, the software is cost free.Jun 09 16:34
DaemonFCWho would pay for that shit?Jun 09 16:34
DaemonFCseriouslyJun 09 16:34
DaemonFCWMA is damaged goods with or without DRMJun 09 16:34
schestowitzNovell ponders "open-source patent coupons store" Jun 09 16:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Red Hat goes one louder with Fedora 11: 09 16:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Novell's open-source app store: We've heard this one before: 09 16:35
mib_ac4yxaschestowitz mabey "Collaborativeware" or "groupWare ?Jun 09 16:35
DaemonFCI got my first taste of DRM when Apple was giving away "free songs" with codes on Pepsi bottle capsJun 09 16:35
schestowitzMaybe I confue them with OrecXJun 09 16:36
trmancooh, today is patch tuesday, DaemonFC have you updated you system?Jun 09 16:36
schestowitzor xTrupleJun 09 16:36
DaemonFCI downloaded iTunes to redeem them then tried to play the files in Winamp, that I supposedly ownedJun 09 16:36
trmancoyour*Jun 09 16:36
DaemonFCand it told me noJun 09 16:36
schestowitz*TupleJun 09 16:36
schestowitzWindows Update is the biggest botnetJun 09 16:36
DaemonFCso I decided at that particular moment that they had turned me off to buying anything from iTunesJun 09 16:36
schestowitzBrace yourself for packet overflowJun 09 16:37
DaemonFCif you pay $1 a track, they shouldn't be able to lock out playing it on different media players than theirsJun 09 16:37
DaemonFCor how many times you can burn itJun 09 16:37
DaemonFCthat's jsut ridiculousJun 09 16:37
DaemonFCif Microsoft did that, they'd be sued. WMA actually lets different plyers hook into Janus and see if you are allowed to play the fileJun 09 16:38
DaemonFCiTunes AAC wouldn't even let you do that muchJun 09 16:38
DaemonFCtrmanco: No patches availableJun 09 16:39
DaemonFCbut I am invited to download SilverlightJun 09 16:40
DaemonFC:PJun 09 16:40
_Hicham_did u try silverlight?Jun 09 16:40
mib_ac4yxaYes it is ridiculous, i agree, so for me if i did not like it I would only ever spend $1 and no moreJun 09 16:40
mib_ac4yxaIf everyone did that they would have to change,Jun 09 16:40
DaemonFCI tried it because I figured that I had enough bottle cap codes for at least a CD's worth of free songsJun 09 16:40
mib_ac4yxaSo enough people accept that limitation and buy it anyway, to keep them goingJun 09 16:40
DaemonFCand I ended up deleting the fucking thingsJun 09 16:40
DaemonFCsome people actually paid for files that I threw away for freeJun 09 16:41
mib_ac4yxaI probably would as wellJun 09 16:41
DaemonFCidiotsJun 09 16:41
DaemonFC_Hicham_: I tried Silverlight just to check it out, but I immediately uninstalled itJun 09 16:41
_Hicham_it is best than flash?Jun 09 16:42
DaemonFCthere's just no compelling websites that require it and it's a massive pile of security problems waiting to happenJun 09 16:42
DaemonFC_Hicham_: You mean from a user's point of view?Jun 09 16:42
DaemonFCIt does some things better than Flash, some worse, some about the sameJun 09 16:42
DaemonFCas a whole, I'd say it's way behindJun 09 16:43
_Hicham_you can .NET apps in silverlightJun 09 16:43
DaemonFCmost of what's out there are demonstration applets that Microsoft paid the site to put inJun 09 16:43
_Hicham_it is an extension to the .NET platformJun 09 16:43
DaemonFCyeah, it's 21st century ActiveXJun 09 16:44
DaemonFC:PJun 09 16:44
DaemonFCthat's the whole pointJun 09 16:44
DaemonFCmy guess is they'll eventually integrate it into IEJun 09 16:44
mib_ac4yxaintegrate into everythingJun 09 16:44
schestowitzApologistas: "And finally, despite the ongoing criticism Novell receives, it is once again their dollars  that allow at least one full time developer to work on the project, in conjunction with a few hundred volunteers." 09 16:45
DaemonFCif Microsoft really made Silverlight and .Net into free software, like under the MS-PL, then I wouldn't see what the whole backlash is, but they're not going to do thatJun 09 16:46
DaemonFCit'll stay fake open source with exclusive partnersJun 09 16:47
DaemonFCthen if it ever gets popular and Adobe goes under, they'll remove the Mac and Linux versionsJun 09 16:47
DaemonFCthat's really what this is about and it's not the first time they have done itJun 09 16:48
DaemonFCIE used to work on 4 different operating systems (Windows, Mac OS, Solaris, and HP-UX)Jun 09 16:48
DaemonFCand several versions of Windows (3.1/95/98/Me/NT4/2000/XP all at once)Jun 09 16:49
DaemonFCnow the latest version will only run on XP and VistaJun 09 16:49
DaemonFCinterestingly, IE 5 for UNIX will still run on OpenSolarisJun 09 16:50
*DaemonFC has tried itJun 09 16:50
fewa_Hicham_, you are not talking to anybodyJun 09 16:50
_Hicham_fewa : I am just seeing what DaemonFC is writingJun 09 16:51
schestowitzHe's HYPER !Jun 09 16:55
_Hicham_DaemonFC is the biggest scientist in hereJun 09 16:56
DaemonFCI love this trackJun 09 16:58
DaemonFCI need to try this one out in WMA, see how it mangles itJun 09 16:58
BalrogDaemonFC: I don't like MSPLJun 09 16:58
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_Hicham_MSPL is GPL compatibleJun 09 16:59
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DaemonFCWMA only corrupts the stringed instruments in this sampleJun 09 17:07
DaemonFCWMA seems to do really well on bass but is horrible on midsJun 09 17:08
DaemonFCnot exactly a well balanced codecJun 09 17:08
_Hicham_u gonna correct this behavior soonJun 09 17:09
_Hicham_since u work on this great codecJun 09 17:09
DaemonFChmmmJun 09 17:12
DaemonFCI think I prefer the Vorbis oneJun 09 17:12
DaemonFCby a landslideJun 09 17:12
DaemonFCI'll upload it in a minuteJun 09 17:12
DaemonFCI'm calling this next one Vorbis in first, MP3 and MP4 tied for second, and WMA in last placeJun 09 17:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Microsoft's Bing Loses Ground After Fast Rise !!!: 09 17:15
Trojan1223Darmon: are you abx testing?Jun 09 17:16
Trojan1223daemon*Jun 09 17:17
DaemonFCjust based on file size and what sounds best to meJun 09 17:17
trmancooh boyJun 09 17:17
DaemonFCthey're all at ~130kJun 09 17:18
Trojan1223Oh. Well, you might want to abx your stuffJun 09 17:18
Trojan1223what OGG encoder are you using?Jun 09 17:18
DaemonFCthe one that comes with BonkEncJun 09 17:18
DaemonFCI think it's 1.2Jun 09 17:18
DaemonFCyeahJun 09 17:18
DaemonFCit's 1.2Jun 09 17:18
DaemonFC 09 17:19
DaemonFCAAC is NeroJun 09 17:19
DaemonFCMP3 is LAME MP3Jun 09 17:19
DaemonFCand WMA is WMA Encoder 9.2Jun 09 17:19
DaemonFCall the latestJun 09 17:19
Trojan1223you'll want to use the aoTuV encoder for Vorbis encodingJun 09 17:19
Trojan1223the encoders from the creators (liek you're using) is quite outdated and in comparison to aoTuV quite poorJun 09 17:20
Trojan1223 09 17:20
Trojan1223you also might want to inculde Musepack as well, it's another OSS music formatJun 09 17:21
DaemonFCprocessingJun 09 17:23
DaemonFCdoneJun 09 17:23
DaemonFChmmmJun 09 17:23
DaemonFCquality scale is differentJun 09 17:23
Trojan1223there's also wavpack lossy, though I can't remember if wavpack is OSSJun 09 17:24
Trojan1223It's BSD licensedJun 09 17:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Kim Jong-nam happy to stay well out of North Korean succession 09 17:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Microsoft Windows zombies threaten mobile network security: 09 17:25
DaemonFCdamn itJun 09 17:25
DaemonFCnow I do want a Vorbis playerJun 09 17:25
DaemonFCI can always h4x0r the firmwareJun 09 17:25
DaemonFC:PJun 09 17:25
Trojan1223what player do you currently have?Jun 09 17:26
DaemonFCdamn, AoTuv is betterJun 09 17:26
DaemonFCI have a Sansa View in the mailJun 09 17:26
DaemonFChmmm, AoTuv is transparent to me at q4 (~128)Jun 09 17:27
DaemonFCat least on this pieceJun 09 17:27
Trojan1223I have one of those playersJun 09 17:27
Trojan1223it's a pile of shitJun 09 17:27
DaemonFCniceJun 09 17:27
DaemonFCyeah, I read the firmware is buggy after I bought the fucking thingJun 09 17:27
Trojan1223I won't be buying SanDisk anymoreJun 09 17:27
DaemonFCI hope it's not as bad as they sayJun 09 17:27
DaemonFC:PJun 09 17:27
Trojan1223it never works rightJun 09 17:28
Trojan1223oddlyJun 09 17:28
Trojan1223It works better in LinuxJun 09 17:28
Trojan1223That is, it crashes less.Jun 09 17:28
DaemonFCthey say it will play MP4 as long as you DON'T use the AAC containerJun 09 17:28
Trojan1223most of my issues is mounting/syncingJun 09 17:28
DaemonFCwhy the HELL would you bloat the file size by 5% using the AAC containerJun 09 17:28
DaemonFCwhen all you're putting in there is an audio stream?Jun 09 17:28
Trojan1223Don't bother recording AAC with FAACJun 09 17:28
Trojan1223that thing sucksJun 09 17:28
DaemonFCI noticedJun 09 17:28
DaemonFCQuicktime exposes the FAAC suckinessJun 09 17:29
Trojan1223Nero's is still the best I believeJun 09 17:29
DaemonFCWinamp actually corrects itJun 09 17:29
DaemonFCso I had about 500 corrupt filesJun 09 17:29
DaemonFCbefore I knew that FAAC was spitting out garbageJun 09 17:29
DaemonFCyes, Nero is the best by farJun 09 17:29
Trojan1223Are you encoding via lossless>lossy?Jun 09 17:29
DaemonFCyesJun 09 17:30
DaemonFCWAV to the files you see in the archiveJun 09 17:30
trmancohere is Fedora's response to mono removal -> 09 17:30
Trojan1223I archive my music onto DVDs, I keep it all FLAC encodedJun 09 17:30
trmanco"Build and test full-featured Windows programs, from the comfort of the Fedora system, without needing to use Windows. "Jun 09 17:30
DaemonFCTrojan1223: Is it possible to nukethe firmware on that thing and get something that works?Jun 09 17:31
DaemonFCor are you stuck with it?Jun 09 17:31
neighborleetrmanco, how sweet it isJun 09 17:31
Trojan1223I haven't really looked into 3rd party firmware for itJun 09 17:32
DaemonFCI'd like to load RockBoxJun 09 17:32
Trojan1223I modded my old iPod, with Linux and RockboxJun 09 17:32
DaemonFCI always used that on my iPod despite MinceRs claims that I love Apple (I don't)Jun 09 17:32
DaemonFCor that I support DRM (never bought any)Jun 09 17:32
DaemonFCloving a company or a product is ridiculous, I'll like it when it works and avoid it when it doesn't and DRM means that it usually doesn't do what I want it toJun 09 17:33
DaemonFCwhich makes it useless to meJun 09 17:33
trmancoI've got rockbox on my ipodJun 09 17:34
trmanconeighborlee, yeah, for windows devs, they now don't have that old excuse anymoreJun 09 17:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Law enforcers go after script kiddies when the Big Criminals walk out and about. 09 17:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_Goblin: see 09 17:35
DaemonFCI don't love Windows jsut from knowing how to use it any more than I love my Ford from knowing how to fix itJun 09 17:35
DaemonFCit's a tool, there to do a jobJun 09 17:36
DaemonFCand following that analogy, Ford puts specialty nuts on various things to make it hard to work on the part with standard wrench setsJun 09 17:37
DaemonFCand just like Windows, sometimes you just have to WD-40 the son of a bitch, put the wrench in place and curb stomp it a few timesJun 09 17:37
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 17:37
neighborleelolJun 09 17:38
schestowitzYahoo’s Bartz Dings Bing; No AOL Deal Happening in The “Forever Future” 09 17:38
neighborleeEverything was overall 'ok' until vista o_0Jun 09 17:38
neighborleeI mean afa windows goes.Jun 09 17:38
DaemonFCTrojan1223: 09 17:39
schestowitzneighborlee: people talk about you todayJun 09 17:39
DaemonFCI put normal vorbis and the AoTuv Vorbis in thereJun 09 17:39
neighborleeschestowitz, me???Jun 09 17:39
neighborleeschestowitz, what did I do now ..;0-Jun 09 17:39
schestowitzOh! You don't wanna know !!Jun 09 17:39
neighborleelolJun 09 17:40
DaemonFCwell, if anyone can figure out how to get RockBox on that Sansa View, I'd love to re-encode everything againJun 09 17:40
DaemonFCto VorbisJun 09 17:40
DaemonFCit really is my first choice, but not at a price spread of over $100 extraJun 09 17:40
schestowitzneighborlee: 09 17:40
neighborleeOHH that ;)Jun 09 17:41
schestowitzlatest comments. MarkS wants to put a bounty on ur' head. "Dead or Alive," as GWB famously put itJun 09 17:41
neighborleeyes,,,so upsetting ;) <NOT>Jun 09 17:41
DaemonFCfor a $55 8 gig player with video and an expansion slotJun 09 17:41
DaemonFCI'll use LAME MP3 and love itJun 09 17:41
DaemonFC:PJun 09 17:41
DaemonFCconsidering the only decent player with those features that supports Vorbis is over $130Jun 09 17:41
DaemonFCso thoughts from anyone that listened to those, are my ears playing tricks or does WMA really sound that bad?Jun 09 17:42
neighborleeschestowitz, the hope was  , I would go quietly...they dont know me at all.Jun 09 17:42
neighborlee:)Jun 09 17:43
schestowitz < Corrupted Word Files for Sale >Jun 09 17:46
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_Mutex_If mono is licenses under teh GPL2 how can it have patent issues ?Jun 09 17:46
schestowitzYes, discouraging oppositionJun 09 17:47
DaemonFCcause the law trumps the source licenseJun 09 17:47
schestowitzWhat does gplv3 say about patents?Jun 09 17:47
schestowitzOr gplv2?Jun 09 17:47
DaemonFCI can't license you to use crack cocaineJun 09 17:47
schestowitzThe question does not make much sense from a legal POVJun 09 17:47
_Mutex_it says software lisenses under this cant be patent encumbered dosn't it ?Jun 09 17:48
DaemonFCwell, that would instantly make it useless for LAMEJun 09 17:49
DaemonFCwhich is why I disagree with GPLv3Jun 09 17:49
DaemonFCsituations where the collateral damage of the license override its usefulnessJun 09 17:49
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DaemonFCfor example, what would GPLv3 mean if I was living in a country that did not recognize MP3 patents and therefore GPLv3 prohibited me from using useful FOSS software?Jun 09 17:50
_Mutex_im just trying to work out how it would be possible for GPL'd code to be poisnwareJun 09 17:50
DaemonFCI don't think patents are something a software license needs to worry about in most casesJun 09 17:51
DaemonFCI mean there's probably some software where GPLv3 is beneficial or at least benignJun 09 17:52
_Mutex_The GPL does worry about it alotJun 09 17:52
schestowitzQt vs GTK: Conclusion  < >Jun 09 17:52
DaemonFCbut obviously even Linus Torvalds believes GPLv3 would do serious and lasting harm to LinuxJun 09 17:52
DaemonFCwere he to change the licenseJun 09 17:53
DaemonFCso I believe he made a good decision for the long term health of LinuxJun 09 17:53
DaemonFCvs a few hippies with some political agendaJun 09 17:53
DaemonFCusing a rider on the license of other people's softwareJun 09 17:53
_Mutex_some will argue the GPL is holding back Linux, Google use Apache  2.0 OSC uses BSD, and ofcourse MS EULA.Jun 09 17:54
DaemonFChe basiaclly said "I don't care if you use Linux to power sharks with fricken laser beams, just pay me back in kind"Jun 09 17:54
DaemonFCwhich is how the GPLv2 is useful to himJun 09 17:54
DaemonFCand that's his rightJun 09 17:54
DaemonFCLinus Torvalds has actually called GPL a horrible political documentJun 09 17:55
DaemonFCit was in one of his speeches on Google VideoJun 09 17:55
schestowitzCarbon Capture Won't Solve the Tar Sands - Canada's Environment Minister 09 17:55
_Mutex_Its not a pretty licenseJun 09 17:55
DaemonFCcarbon capture is a lobbyest and politician's re-election year lineJun 09 17:55
DaemonFCnot something that actually existsJun 09 17:56
schestowitzPretty to whomJun 09 17:56
schestowitzTiVo?Jun 09 17:56
DaemonFCTorvalds has said multiple times he doesn't careJun 09 17:56
DaemonFCas long as they send him their patchesJun 09 17:56
DaemonFChe has no interest in dictating their hardwareJun 09 17:56
DaemonFCand he is 100% within his rightsJun 09 17:56
_Mutex_To Google, Apple, bsd and so onJun 09 17:56
DaemonFCif you don't like Linux licensing, go make your own kernel and license it under precisely anything you wantJun 09 17:57
DaemonFChell, go make HURD work before its 30th birthdayJun 09 17:57
DaemonFC;)Jun 09 17:57
_Mutex_exactly, just like google didJun 09 17:57
schestowitzNew site: 09 17:58
DaemonFCI believe Torvalds has the right to license code he wrote however he wantsJun 09 17:58
DaemonFCand so do the rest of the contributorsJun 09 17:58
DaemonFC40% of Linux is GPL 2 ONLYJun 09 17:58
schestowitzTime is dying,8599,1902202,00.htmlJun 09 17:58
*qense ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 17:59
DaemonFCso you have 60% start for re-writing the bits you don't likeJun 09 17:59
_Mutex_Torvalds only has claim to about 1% of the code in the Linux Kernel these days.Jun 09 17:59
DaemonFCnoJun 09 17:59
DaemonFCabout 2%Jun 09 17:59
DaemonFCthat's still hugeJun 09 17:59
DaemonFCfor a single personJun 09 17:59
DaemonFCthere's over 11 million source lines in the kernelJun 09 17:59
DaemonFC2% of a fucking hell of a lotJun 09 17:59
DaemonFCis still a hell of a lotJun 09 17:59
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 17:59
DaemonFCbut if you think you can rewrite the 300,000-ish lines from Torvalds and the 4 million-ish lines other authors wrote that are GPL 2-OnlyJun 09 18:00
DaemonFCknock yourself outJun 09 18:00
DaemonFCthat *only* comes out to about 4-5 years worth of work provided you have all the support of all the kernel authorsJun 09 18:01
DaemonFC:PJun 09 18:01
DaemonFCso get crackingJun 09 18:01
DaemonFC;)Jun 09 18:01
schestowitzGoogle veteran publishes book, but would people pay $200? 09 18:01
_Mutex_I can take GPL code and do what i like with it, as much as i like, and if I dont distribute it, thats my rightJun 09 18:01
DaemonFCrightJun 09 18:02
DaemonFCknock yourself outJun 09 18:02
DaemonFCif the license says you can do it, have a blastJun 09 18:02
schestowitzOriginal government document ordering "Green Dam" software installation 09 18:02
DaemonFCI don't go on tirades about how I think other people should license their stuff because I don't have that rightJun 09 18:02
DaemonFCthe BSD people have every right to use the BSD licenseJun 09 18:03
DaemonFCLinus Torvalds has every right to use any license he wantsJun 09 18:03
schestowitzArrrrrrrrrrrrrr  the Pirates in the Vanguard of a New Politics? Jun 09 18:03
DaemonFCwith something like Linux, you agree or go do something else, or re-write what you don't agree with and license it yourselfJun 09 18:04
DaemonFCand I think that's perfectly fairJun 09 18:04
_Mutex_Except he does not own the copyright to the code, but I agree he could freeze it and make it proprietary, and there is not much FSF could do about it.Jun 09 18:04
DaemonFChe owns the trademark, he owns all the code he wroteJun 09 18:04
_Mutex_Its after all what Google did with linux, it made it closes.Jun 09 18:04
DaemonFCand each individual or company can license what they wroteJun 09 18:04
DaemonFCif he wanted to relicense all of Linux, he'd have to hunt down a lot of peopleJun 09 18:04
DaemonFCand get them to all agreeJun 09 18:05
DaemonFCeveryone that's ever done any contribs that are GPL 2 OnlyJun 09 18:05
_Mutex_so he could relicense 2% of the code,  all the code he hold the copyright on trueJun 09 18:05
DaemonFCyesJun 09 18:05
_Mutex_I belive the FSF holds the copyright for all GPL'd code, , i could be wrong.Jun 09 18:06
DaemonFCand most of the contributors use GPL 2 Only because they don't want GPL 3Jun 09 18:06
DaemonFCand telling them to go fuck themselves jsut won't workJun 09 18:06
DaemonFCno, they don'tJun 09 18:06
DaemonFCsaying good bye to 40% of your contributors to switch to a license that furthers someone elses agenda is probably not what he wantsJun 09 18:07
DaemonFCand I don't blame himJun 09 18:07
schestowitzVery good:  The death of scholarly journals? < >Jun 09 18:08
DaemonFCanyway, GPL is to Novell's advantage anywayJun 09 18:08
DaemonFCas I understand itJun 09 18:08
DaemonFCbecause it further legitimized their Microsoft dealJun 09 18:08
DaemonFCand makes it so they are the only ones that can have oneJun 09 18:08
DaemonFCGPL 3 that isJun 09 18:09
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schestowitz 09 18:09
DaemonFCswitching to it would most likely backfire for a lot of reasons, but that's oneJun 09 18:09
*pro-rsoft (n=prorsoft@unaffiliated/pro-rsoft) has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 18:10
zer0c00lsecurity vulnerabilities made software firm head to commit suicide ? 09 18:10
pro-rsofteh?Jun 09 18:11
zer0c00lpro-rsoft, yepJun 09 18:11
MinceRDaemonFC: if you don't love crApple, why the iPoo?Jun 09 18:12
schestowitzChina Squeezes PC Makers  < >Jun 09 18:12
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 18:12
schestowitzzer0c00l: spooky storyJun 09 18:12
schestowitzSeen it earlierJun 09 18:12
zer0c00lohJun 09 18:12
DaemonFCMinceR: Cause most other players were not all that great til within the last couple yearsJun 09 18:12
zer0c00l schestowitz yesJun 09 18:12
zer0c00lweirdJun 09 18:13
schestowitz"Sorty, sir, your site is GONE... and so do 100k other sites.. and the develope hanged himself last night.."Jun 09 18:13
_Mutex_FSF: "our lawyers have told us that to be in the best position to enforce the GPL in court against violators, we should keep the sopyright status of the program as simple as possibleJun 09 18:13
DaemonFCiPod was the only one that even really understood things like VBR til 2005-ishJun 09 18:13
zer0c00lschestowitz, lolJun 09 18:13
zer0c00l:DJun 09 18:13
schestowitz*"Sorry, sir, your site is GONE... and so are 100k other sites.. and the developer hanged himself last night.."Jun 09 18:13
MinceRmy dell laptop is falling apartJun 09 18:13
_Mutex_"we do this by asking each contributor to either assign the copyright on his contribution to the FSF,. or disclaim copyright on it and this put it in the public domain"Jun 09 18:13
MinceRi don't recommend this "quality" to anyone, except my enemiesJun 09 18:13
schestowitzDeLL HellJun 09 18:14
DaemonFCI actually had the "iPod for Windows" from before they actually had ported iTunesJun 09 18:14
schestowitzMinceR: you'll be glad to know Michael and SweatyB are still friendsJun 09 18:14
*benjamin is now known as benjimanJun 09 18:14
DaemonFCApple shipped it with a copy of MusicMatch Jukebox PlusJun 09 18:14
DaemonFCwhich was actually far superior to iTunesJun 09 18:15
DaemonFCbut I never had iTunes on my system past seeing what a pile of shit it was/isJun 09 18:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Australians! What 3G prepaid dongles are *known* to work as supplied by provider with Ubuntu 9.04? @redcountess needs it.Jun 09 18:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] USB 3.0 support: coming soon to a Linux kernel near you!: 09 18:15
DaemonFCWinamp can sync an iPod just greatJun 09 18:15
DaemonFCand most other portables tooJun 09 18:15
schestowitzRisks Of Sharing Personal Genetic Information Online Need More Study, Bioethicists Say < >Jun 09 18:16
DaemonFCI don't really think there's a great abundance of Windows media player software that can do all the stuff Winamp can, in fact, I'd really hate to try to deal with anything other than WinampJun 09 18:16
DaemonFCcause the rest tends to be buggy bloatwareJun 09 18:16
MinceRDaemonFC: can it sync the newest iPoo dontTouch only the ancient versions?Jun 09 18:17
schestowitziPod Douch?Jun 09 18:17
DaemonFChven't tried it, don't have an iPod anymoreJun 09 18:17
MinceRs/only/or only/Jun 09 18:17
DaemonFCremember?Jun 09 18:17
DaemonFC:PJun 09 18:17
MinceRthat's newJun 09 18:17
MinceRi didn't catch that partJun 09 18:17
DaemonFCit still has an iTunes importer though :)Jun 09 18:17
DaemonFCso it can swipe all your iTunes settingsJun 09 18:17
schestowitzPolice Open Fire on Indigenous Blockade in the Peruvian Amazon - 25 Civilians and 9 Police Dead, 150 Injured  < > YikesJun 09 18:18
schestowitzCranky copsJun 09 18:19
*jbartosik ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 09 18:19
DaemonFCWindows 7 does natively understand AACJun 09 18:19
DaemonFChallelujah it's a miracle, only 10 years inJun 09 18:20
DaemonFC:)Jun 09 18:20
DaemonFCafter 11 years of trying and repeatedly failing to convince anyone to use WMAJun 09 18:21
*zer0c00l has quit ("My computer is going down")Jun 09 18:22
DaemonFCMS finally adopts the current industry standardJun 09 18:22
pro-rsoftwhat about OGG?Jun 09 18:22
pro-rsoftor FLACJun 09 18:22
*pro-rsoft never used AAC and never saw where it was used eitherJun 09 18:22
DaemonFCwell, my personal answer to WMA is "Over my rotting corpse"Jun 09 18:22
pro-rsoftmine, tooJun 09 18:22
pro-rsoftI use flac myself for my music collectionJun 09 18:22
DaemonFCpro-soft: Nero and Winamp are the best AAC encodersJun 09 18:23
DaemonFCiTunes is ok but not greatJun 09 18:23
DaemonFCFAAC is garbageJun 09 18:23
DaemonFCspits out corrupt filesJun 09 18:23
schestowitz3D Printing: Desktop Factory Still Urgently Looking For Capital 09 18:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft ruins everyone's hardware, for profit! 09 18:25
DaemonFCschestowitz: I did check into that site that Carmony was spamming on his blogJun 09 18:25
DaemonFCit actually does seem to be one of the better online MP3 storesJun 09 18:25
DaemonFCthey even say they use LAME with VBR 1Jun 09 18:26
DaemonFCI dunno, could be somethingJun 09 18:26
DaemonFCthe rest of the stores seem to be living in 1997 where VBR doesn't existJun 09 18:26